Pass a specific decided for ive been appointed by numerous Justice Departments to investigate cases and prosecute them if necessary, where there might be a conflict of interests, Molar Being also another recent one elie, i just want you to explain to our viewers when i started reporting from the White House many years ago, there were independent counsel now there are Special Counsels. Whats the difference . Exactly right. So we had a law on the books of federal law from 1978 to 1999, creating the position of independent counsel. And we had a good number of them. The most famous or infamous one of those was Ken Starr in 1999, that law lapsed. It had a legislative sunset that was such backlash over the Clinton Impeachment that congress just said, lets let it die in its place in 1999, arose the current set of Special Counsel regulations. Under those regulations, weve seen robert muller, Jack Smith, robert hurr, david weiss, as kara noted, who has prosecuting Hunter Biden right now. And the challenges will regulations, the legal challenge is regulations are enough there has to be a specific law, but as karen said, every judge to consider this so far, except for Judge Cannon has said no, its okay. The regulations are justified. They are supported by the general powers of the attorney general. So this is a heavy Longshot Argument that trump is making. He made it successfully to Judge Cannon i think shes going to get reversed. I think that classified Documents Case is going to get reinstated because of this. And as Judge Chutkan notes, the heavyweight of the legal authority is against trump on this, legally speaking, the independent counsel and the Special Counsel, theyre basically the same thing. The difference is the independent counsel had a very specific law that said there is this job called the independent counsel. Congress has not passed a law, but the regulations now do that. Yes, judge. Chutkan says that the immunity is the linchpin here. Shes moving very quickly on this front. Yeah. So immunity is really the main purpose of what were dealing with here. There is a question supreme Court Decision, right . So this goes back to the supreme Court Decision that came out two months ago that said the president is broadly immune for official acts. And now what Judge Chutkan is do is working with the parties saying, well, how are we going to go through the revised indictment, the slimmeddown indictment that We Saw last week and decide whats in and whats out. And trumps team is saying, well, lets hold on, whats not even start that until after the election in december, the prosecutors, and it seems like the judge is on board with this as well. Lets start the process of arguing that Immunity Issue in briefing it. As soon as possible, prosecutors want to start putting their evidence into the record, but trumps team, of course, as always, wants to slam on the brakes. I want to bring in Mike Van Der veen, former trump impeachment attorney. How do you see all of this unfolding right now, mike . Well, its interesting because they trump lawyers thought that they were going to have a better day than its been going so far theyre good lawyers. But i think that they plot their arguments were shown stronger going in and i think they thought that after florida they would have people on their heels and certainly after the Supreme Court case, they thought they were really sitting in the Catbird Seat but, you know, when you really start looking at the Nitty Gritty of it, first, the supreme Court Decision, no private acts arent going to be covered in. There buckets of information that can go into official acts, private acts, and then presumptively immune acts. So you they thought that would be pretty easy thing to do. Its not going to be and they dont want to see the facts coming out of the secret grand and transcripts from the grand jury. So now theyre going to have to deal with i think they thought theyd have a lot better of an Argument Today with a backup of the Florida Corporate of course, a Dc Circuit Court is much more in line with i think what the Rulings Event interesting. Judge chutkan, by the way, just pushes john lauro, the trump attorney, over his repeated assertion that Defense Attorneys are now dealing with a new indictment. Theres a lot of drama unfolding inside this Federal Courtroom right now. Were going to have much more coming up. Paula elie, karen, and michael please stay with us. Well continue to monitor the flurry of headlines coming out of the courtroom. A lots at stake right now well be right back this Election Season. Cnn has you covered, no matter the question . From more about the candidates to rules in your state, to casting your ballot. The Cnn Voter Handbook has your answers. Visit cnn cnn. Com Slash Vote for yours innovation in Health Care means nothing. If no one can afford at. 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Were following the first the first hearing in trumps federal election Subversion Case, since prosecutors revised their initial indictment on the left of your screen, you will see what each side is arguing. This is coming directly from our reporters inside the courtroom. No cameras are allowed in as Federal Courtroom as a result, were getting this information directly from our reporters who were watching, taking notes and reporting to us. Lets see what the prosecutor, Thomas Wyndham just said prosecutors do not expect to make any immunity based discovery disclosures, quote, we have nothing further to provide in discovery. The prosecutor said has Elie Honig explain in english, what that means. So discovery is the process where prosecutors have to turn over their evidence to the defense lawyers. Now, in this case, prosecutors have already turned over millions of pages of discovery, over 10 Million pages trumps team has said, okay, now we have this new indictment that just dropped last week. So we the defense were entitled to more discovery prosecution. You have to now give us more discovery, more evidence, more documents, and what the prosecutor is saying here is no, weve already given you everything thats relevant. In fact, i think what theyre arguing is the new indictment is basically just a subset of what was already in the first indictment and the soup this Superseding Indictment and new indictment, why did they have to do that . Because they have to conform with the Supreme Courts ruling. So just to get the Time Line here, a year ago, summer of 2023, Jack Smith indicted trump relating to the 2020 election. A very broad indictment but after that, a couple of months ago, the Supreme Court said no much of this indictment is now covered by immunity, meaning much of this indictment now has to come out, including, for example, trumps conversations with the Justice Department and Jack Smith responding to that last week, came back with a slimmeddown indictment. It keeps the same charges in place, but it takes out some of the evidence, including, for example, trumps interactions with the Justice Department. So thats how we landed here. Paula reid, our chief legal affairs correspondent, is there outside the courthouse for us, paula, there are basically two issues that are being debated right now inside right . Well, wolf, this hearing is actually just wrapped up in heres what we learned during this hearing. The first thing is that the judge is not in a place to set a Trial Date its way too soon. Theres too many outstanding issues now, this was a much more combative here that i think what we expected going into today, if you go to the exchanges between Judge Tanya Chutkan and Defense Attorneys for former president trump, or really rebuffing many of the arguments that they were trying to make on behalf of their client well, the one area of agreement is that the first issue that the judge needs to address is this question of immunity. She needs to take the supreme Courts Opinion from july and apply it to the facts of this case. That is the firstorder of business. All parties agreed but then there are a lot of other outstanding example. The question will hold off, hold off for a second because shes talking to you about this very, very key issue of immunity. The u. S. Supreme court said that if a president is being charged with something and he was doing it while being president , united states, potentially, theres immunity at both parties are agreeing right now that Judge Chutkan says that that she shes going to deal with this issue, right now, but both sides say they understand what shes doing. Lets look like theres a huge debate on that issue. Yes. So this relates to the setting of a Trial Date, and i actually was surprised when i saw her update saying Judge Chutkan will now turn to the question of a Trial Date. She cant set a Trial Date because Donald Trump gets to appeal this whole immunity determination that you were just talking about before. Theres a trial and then the next update said, Judge Chutkan said that would be futile to set a Trial Date now and both sides agree, you cannot set a Trial Date now, they still have to go through the appellate process and i think everyone, judge, and both parties agrees a Trial Date is well down the line is where she said we have to set a Trial Date that suggested to me, well, maybe things are moving more quickly than we assume. Yes. I did a doubletake there is and how she going to set a Trial Date when they still have to go through these appeals. But i think she was just raising it to make sure the parties agreed. This is not the time to set a Trial Date. There is not a Trial Date. There will not be a Trial Day until at least after these appeals paula reid, youre there for us. Theyve now adjourn this session. So what happens next . So were going to wait for the judge to issue her schedule. It was a possibility that she could give some sort of scheduling dates today, but she needs to take some time. To review what he heard today and decide the path forward. Shes made it clear that the first issue is going to be immunity. So shes asked to decide how she wants to proceed with that. Then im gonna be southern questions of how does the Supreme Courts decision about obstruction of justice related to January 6 . How does that apply here . She knows that the Defense Attorneys are going to try to litigate adelaide budgeted missy of the Special Counsel, but it does not appear that shes going to give a lot of weight to that argument. And then there are also these outstanding questions of discovery so right now were going to start waiting to see what Judge Tanya Chutkin says in terms of next steps, but its clear, look, shes not going to completely concede to the defense and the way they want to proceed here. But its really unclear how shes going to lay out this calendar. That number one goal though, for the Trump Team heading into today, was to just try to delay any sort of substantive hearings until after the november election. It appears that that is probably how its going to play out. The hearing as adjourned, at least for this day. So paula elie, karen, and mike, thanks to all of you. Theres other very important news were following this hour as well, including new details. Were getting in about the 14yearold Suspect in the Georgia School Shooting and the agonizing moments for parents. One mother was on the phone with her daughter during the shooting i caught her to just run in the classroom and hot in the corner. Just be quiet at that time. I heard five gunshots and then the phone went dead how long have you opinion . 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Com im bill, were on the California Coast and this is cnn Judge Tanya Chutkan has just adjourned, adjourn. Todays hearing in a Federal Courtroom here in washington on the federal Subversion Case against Donald Trump by cnns senior crime and justice that the Court Reporter had to say, hold on, youre talking over one another, judge. And defense attorney. And then John Loro said, you know, theres a very sensitive time in our nations history, and thats when you could see he lost the judge judge tanya, chuck can sat back in her chair. She side and then she put a Finger Up stopped the banter, took a pause and said, lets discuss what the sensitive time is here. The election is not relevant to the timeline, and that just put a different flavor across the courtroom of the discussions about timing here. And she pulled it back to say were going to talk talk about whats actually needed, what i can do here, and how to move this forward. She didnt put a Trial Date on the calendar. And she didnt put a timeline down yet. She does say she is going to set one up for later today hopefully, if she can put that out. But what the subtext here, she didnt want that this is not about the president ial election Donald Trump running for presidency, and whether or not the Justice Department is able to put forward evidence before november. The other thing i want to point out here, wolf is there was a lightness to this proceeding. Nobody has been in this courtroom before, judge, checkin since last so october. And even Jack Smith, we havent seen him in a courtroom for some time. He was there today. Is beard is a lot longer than the last time i remember seeing him. Judge, checkin her hair. Its lighter and even at the beginning of this proceeding, she said, everybody looks rested and there was laughter across the courtroom what she did he did underscore what we all know about judge chart gun. She is tough. She is very, very smart and she does not want any really im Serious Business to emerge during the course of this, during the course of this trial, caitlin paul, excellent work as usual. Thank you very, very much. I want to turn to some other important news. These were following right now, developing Story A Community Is Shattered and Grieving Today and questions are mounting after yet another senseless School Shooting here in the united states this time in georgia four people were killed at the Epa Light cheap High School in the city of winder including two teachers and to 14 students were learning that Law Enforcement last Year Question the actual assault suspect, a 14yearold Student at the school about online threats to commit a School Shooting. Students are now describing the terror they faced as a gunman walked there halls i was scared. I was going to die, to be honest. And when i heard hard lockdown and i knew it was an drill i just kept my feet up and i prayed and i close my eyes and i tried to stay calm and about shaking. I was worried that they would hear me and everyone docs fine, doesnt teacher is like flipping tables and stuff and barricading door. So i was just scared out of my mind. And a mother is sharing how she learned what was happening from her daughter. Listen i. Was at Work And Arrow called me on the phone and told me, mom theres a active shooting at school. I told her to just run in the classroom and hot in the corner, just be quiet just do whatever they tell her to do and at that time, i heard five on shots and then the phone went dead so i didnt know if she was hurt want to bring in Steve Moore right now cnn Law Enforcement contributor, a retired fbi special agent. Steve, what are the next steps in this investigation . Well, youre going to have to find out everything that this suspect did in the last year or two, maybe even three, because theres two phases to this. Theres number one how did he accomplish what he did . And number two, how did we miss what he did . How did we miss even though we were targeted in on him at one point so theyre going to go through all of his social media, everything he said, anybody he knows, theyre going to like write a biography on him for the next few weeks. Suspect as you correctly pointed out, was actually questioned last year about potential online threats to commit a School Shooting, not just one, maybe more. Why were officials able to take any action then well, because youre constrained by the legal principle of probable cause do you have probable cause to believe that this person is going to go forward and commit one of these shootings or even in this case, do you have probable cause to believe that he was the one who made the threat im not going to argue back and forth because i dont know the whole the whole Fact Situation about when they went and met with him. But it seems to me that they had probable cause that he had made that threat. And were going to have to determine as a society here whether a threat now, were looking at a threat and saying, oh, hes at 13yearold boy, lets not ruin his whole life over something stupid. Well, we may have to for the protection of our society, take these type of things much more seriously. And are they going to be investigating the parents as well . If the parents were negligent, for example, it protecting the Ar 15Style Rifle that was supposedly involved yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Especially in this case, because if that Ar 15 belonged to the father and thats Thats Kind of where the facts seem to be pointing remember that police came to the house and said he didnt have the father said he doesnt have access to these guns. Well apparently he did. And then what youve got is not only negligence in the act of making the gun available to his son, but but criminal activity in lying to the police about the availability of a gun that was later he used in a murder as you know, the school rolled out some new technology only last week that allowed School Officials to directly report to Law Enforcement that a shooting was unfolding. How big of a role did this play in preventing further casualties . But the Training Theyve done, the programs that theyve done obviously had a big effect because frankly this as tragic and its horrible as it sounds, this is a lower death told than we would sometimes expect with that kind of weapon. And that much time so the first the class that he left from, they locked the door behind him before. I mean, it was just a standard policy. So he couldnt come into that room. He went to another room, but were seeing that if you can delay they are divert the shooters than lives can be saved, which is so important night, Steve Moore. Thank you very much for your urinalysis and still had this hour discouraging news for the families of hamas hostages, the israeli prime Minister Benjamin, the time you out saying that a deal to free them, quote there isnt even close off speak with the parents of a 22yearold who has been missing now for more than 300 330 days sunday a twohour whole story special, the candidates and their record on the key issues of the Election Season what does their past tell us about how they will meet the whole story with Anderson Cooper sunday starting at 8 00 on cnn its one its frail welcome to stormy heights where the windows are always pellet pelosi, fiberglass is the strongest material for windows and patio doors. The Fiberglass Frame is even Scratch And Dent resistant. Hello, windows. Its even Replacement Windows by hello. Now as long as i agree lets not give her complex love. 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We have some new details on the israelhamas talks to try to broker a Ceasefire Deal and secure the release of israeli hostages. A senior us Administration Official says an agreement is now 90 complete. The source tells cnn the remaining obstacle those are the future role of israeli troops from gaza. And the exchange of hostages held by hamas for Palestinian Prisoners held by israel, joining us now are the parents of 22yearold Israeli American omer neutra. Hes the grandson of Holocaust Survivors and was serving in the israeli military when hamas took him the stage back on october 7, or an Ronen Neutra are joining us right now and youve shared your story with me four to both of you and our hearts go out to you and to all the parents, Family Members of these hostages being held by hamas just a short time ago. The israeli prime Minister Benjamin of time you minced no words to reject those reports of a draft agreement. Possibly emerging and taking shape. Listen to what he said, listen to this its exactly inaccurate. Theres a Story Or Narrative out that theres a deal out there in fact, while we agreed in july and in may and july in an august to a deal and to an american proposal, hamas has consistently said no to every one of them. They dont agree to anything now to the Philadelphi Corridor or not to the keys of exchanging hostages for Jail Terrorists . Not to anything thats just a false narrative. So oren what do you make of prime Minister Netanyahu is very blunt assessment you know what all its just unacceptable to me, even the way hes presenting this. Yes. Were dealing with a terrorist Organization And Theyve been holding onto our kids for 11 months now. But i would expect from the Prime Minister to say, instead of just dismissing whatevers on the table and blaming it on hamas to say that he is committed to making a deal that will work and not just dismiss It Lightheartedly like it like it is just cross clearly a difference of opinion between the israeli Prime Minister and a top officials. Here in the biden administration and rhona. And when we spoke last year and i remember that conversation, well, it was on Thanksgiving Day it was the day before a week following Ceasefire Deal emerged, and that freed some 13 hostages held by hamas. You voiced optimism at the time that it was the start of a new process sadly, sadly, very sadly, it wasnt. What is your level of optimism today . Listen wolf, we have to stay optimistic. Does no other way. But we see how difficulties we were heartbroken. We didnt use of Hersh Polin Goldberg being murdered few days back with other five israelis we know that the situation is dire. We know that our son is at risk of gunpoint any minute. And 11 months in we are calling on all the leaders, including the Biden Ministration do everything you can, do, your responsibility. Its urgent. And our kids are dying there. And you have to do whatever you can to bring them back now, because there wont be too many more opportunities rhona, let me follow up. The Prime Minister, Prime Minister, and attacking you. Its totally adamant that he wont compromise on his demand to keep israeli troops along that southern Gaza Border with egypt known as the Philadelphi Corridor. He says its essential to block the flow of smuggled weapons and ammunition into gaza that would wind up in the hands of hamas and potentially could the wind up killing more israelis, do you feel the Prime Minister is doing enough to prioritize bringing omer and the other hostages home listen. We are doing a deal with the devil. The worst Terrorist Organization in the world but let me ask this question for 20 years, close to 20 years, prime Minister Netanyahu was in charge. And making sure that these borders are protected and flow of ammunition is not coming in. Where was he where was the army . And now that we are there, do you really think that few soldiers being there is going to make sure that the tunnels are not being operated underneath them. I dont buy that we look at it as a political excuse. We know the gotta be a deal with the devil. Do the deal, bring the hostages and later on do what . You need to make sure that israel is secure, not on the back of my Child Or Weve seen several days of very angry protests across all of israel, Hundreds Of Thousands of israelis protesting over the Governments Failure to hammer out a Hostage Deal to bring those remaining hostages home. Does that give you any hope to see these demonstrations in tel aviv, jerusalem, and elsewhere . Israel is a democracy and what youre seeing is the outrage of the israeli people, of the Hostage Families and all Israeli Society really coming out and saying, you need to do more its not enough, its been 11 months, people are dying. We had six young people well, that were able to survive the horrible conditions of their captivity. Only to be murdered last week. And its just devastating. And what were seeing in the streets is the outcry of the israeli people that are demanding that our own people come home i come home that all the hostages come home without them coming home. Israeli society will not be able to recover. And wolf, i want to say the names of the american citizens that are being held in captivity in gaza with our son omer. There is eden sagi, and keith that are considered alive and will be tight guardian. Jury that are considered to be held as bodies in gaza all seven of them must come home i tell us a little bit about oh, Barriers Son who is being held over there you know always a great kid. Hes hes very social. Hes hes a kid that does the right thing. Hes an allamerican kid. He grew up. He was born in new york city. He grew up on long island. He loves athletics. He loves the nfl, the nba he was the captain of three Sports Teams and High School was a leader in his you like you mentioned, wolf, we have a very big family in israel, both of his grandparents were Holocaust Survivor was moved to israel and after spending some time in israel and a gap on her felt that before he came back to college here in the united states, he needed to serve himself. So thats the kind of kid that he has you know, hes hes just a regular kid, but hes also kid that will do the right thing. And we need to do everything to bring him back ill be ill be back soon and be back with you with both of you or Ronen Neutra. Thank you so much for being with us. Good luck to you. Good luck to all the Hostage Families and all the hostages. Lets hope they get back to israel and get back soon. And well be right back with more news. Kamala harris, Donald Trump, the debate. Everyones been waiting for follows cnn for complete coverage and exclusive pre and post Debate Analysis a cnn Special Event abc News President ial debate. Tuesday at nine eastern on Cnn And Streaming on max have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping same, discover the power of weekold what rigobi i lost 35 pounds and some lost over 46 pounds. We go im keeping the weight off we go via helps you lose weight and keep it off im reducing my risk. 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Evan, tell us about whats going on well, Wolf Court just got underway about 15 minutes ago here in downtown Los Angeles and Hunter Bidens attorneys have stood up in court said that hes offering to resolve this case, avoid going to trial. The trial is supposed to start with jury selection. Today, wolf, but hes offering to enter a whats known as an Alford Plea where he maintains his innocence, but essentially put himself at the mercy of the court and accept whatever sentence, whatever punishment the judge in this case deals out and so we dont know, obviously, how this will be happen or where, or how this will turn out. In court right now, generally, Justice Department has a policy against alford, please they would they would insist that Hunter Biden needs to plead guilty to all of these charges. Just a reminder. He is failing his facing three Felony Counts for Tax Evasion and six Misdemeanor Counts for failing to pay out fight, failing to file and pay his taxes. This is for the years 2016, 2017, 2018 We SawHunter Biden arrived in court so while ago and there certainly the expectation was that at least before this trial got underway, wolf, that there would be some kind of discussion of a possible hey agreement. It appears there have been no such negotiations, at least not recently. And im Hunter Biden is said is offering in Court Today to enter this Alpert Play again, where he maintains he is innocent, but that the that he acknowledges the government has enough evidence to convict him. I accept whatever punishment the judge sentences him to so we dont know again, how this will turn out today. We expect that the government will object to this so arrangement i will see whether what Judge Mark Scarsi says in response to a hunters offer, wolf, because usually as you know, evan a new weve covered a lot of these kinds of cases over the years when theres a Plea Agreement, the suspect pleads guilty in exchange for a reduced sentence. From the prosecution. That goes before a judge and almost always the judge accepts that Plea Agreement offering some sort of reduced sentence and no sentence sometimes in exchange for a guilty plea that avoids a full scale trial. But this is very, very different. Right . This is a highly unusual move by the defendant in this case, Hunter Biden. I mean, hes he is trying to essentially bypass the government and asked the judge to accept this plea in state courts. Sometimes they have this. They no Contest Or Nolow condemned the Raid Type of plea in Federal Court whats this is called an Alford Plea. Again Justice Department is has a policy against accepting these types of Plea Agreements or this kind of plea. They would contend and that Hunter Biden needs to plead guilty to all of these charges. And then accept whatever punishment the judge decides and so its a very unusual move to try to to try to do this. Now, youll remember wolf that there was a Plea Agreement last year which fell apart in Federal Court in delaware where Hunter Biden was was convicted earlier this year on gun charges. Wolf Evan Perez in Los Angeles for us. Well stay on top of this story to be sure. Thank you very much. And to our viewers, thanks very much for joining me. Im Wolf Blitzer in washington. Ill be back later tonight, 6 00 p. M. Eastern in the Situation Room Stay with us inside politics, with Dana Bash starts right after a very short break this is an incredible story. I believe you are the Son Of God the stakes are extremely high. You said im not getting in this to lose anna so why dont you act like a good sister and gave me some rather Baby Back Ribs he directed now China Sea where you go get you out, and cut drama maybe ill just go get wings for everybody from starting strong to its been a week so many ways to save life ready wallet, happy. Thats 365 by whole foods fa take care of all this. 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Im Dana Bash and we are following Breaking News on multiple fronts. 61 days from Election Day a crucial hearing just wrapped up in the federal case against Donald Trump for trying to overturn the last election. The judge says, shes not ready to set a Trial Date, but that the election will not factor into her decisionmaking. And any moment now, the former president will unveil a new economic policy. We are going to bring that to you live. But first, major news in Hunter Bidens federal Tax Evasion Case, Cnns Evan Perez hath