Brody, us next is david the host of the pods honest podcast. He is also the chief analyst for the christian broadcasting network. Thank you for being with us on this Easter Sunday morning. We spent our first hour asking our viewers about public gatherings and whether they should be exempt from the stayathome orders. What is your sense of how religious leaders christian on this Easter Sunday but across the spectrum are handling the challenge of getting a congregation together somehow, or keeping them apart . Guest it is a great question, and it is a challenge to a degree. But i want to do a disclaimer off the top. It is an important disclaimer that i think will cloak the whole conversation we have. Most christians, most pastors, most churches are indeed abiding by either the federal guidelines or state guidelines, what have you. The reality is, for most of the country, for most evangelical christians, for christians worldwide or excuse me, christians across this country, they are abiding by these rules. When we get into talking about certain cases, we are talking about a certain handful of churches that have decided not to do that. It has been a challenge. More than that, i think, how do you come up creatively with ways to go ahead and hold church, not just online most people are turning online but whether they be drivein services. We have seen situations where a communion is being delivered on thursday, you drive through, you pick up the cracker and wine, or the great juice, and you open it on sunday during the online service. There are all different sorts of ways that people are getting prayed up and charged up during this time. Host it does seem like the cases of governors and in some cases mayors will raise an interesting constitutional question about the ability of the government to say to religious organizations, no, you cant or you really shouldnt meet in person. Or, worst case scenario, you are subject to some sort of penalty. Guest thats exactly right. We have the contours of the argument, if you will. It is Public Health versus religious freedom, two very important contours. What do you do exactly . I think what we are seeing is a line of demarcation. For the most part, you see christians and pastors and evangelical leaders being ok with heeding those guidelines and sliding on the side of Public Health. Thats fine. But when do you start crossing the line . We have seen this popping up in the news, whether it be down in mississippi, in greenville, where they are ticketing people going in their car remember, these are cars in a drivein church service. They are not entering the building. The cars themselves, not the people, the cars themselves are six feet apart. Cars are social distancing, and yet these folks down in mississippi are getting ticketed. We know about what is going on in kentucky as well, whether it be license plates being reported on sunday, this sunday, Easter Sunday, by authorities that will then be reported. Those license plates are going to be reported to Public Health officials. So you have church folks that if you go into a Church Parking lot in kentucky, they write down your license plate number and all of a sudden you get a knock at the door the next day by Public Health officials saying, you need to be quarantined for 14 days. At that point we are starting to cross the line. I think that is where the debate is going and that is the big concern among evangelicals. Host we showed some of your interview with Vice President pence. When will that air . Tell us more about what he said on gatherings and his take on these church gatherings, online or in person. Guest a couple things. Programming note, we have released a couple of clips over the weekend. Justthenewso one on. Com, because i host that podcast. That one is up as well. Then a full report on the interview on mondays 700 club. Check your local listings, as they say. As for the interview with mike pence, he started saying, he has got a lot of gratitude in his heart for the churches that have pretty much stepped up. So he is happy with that. I asked him the question, what about these pastors that are in essence going rogue . He said, look, his concern is that you can worship jesus anywhere. You dont have to just be at a inside a church in the pews. That was basically his he is point. Onto something that is very true, which is, last time i checked, jesus isnt in a church filling. Jesus can be online. You dont quarantine jesus. And so jesus is everywhere. With you as you go throughout the day. I think thats what his point was. Overall, he has been very pleased with how churches are responding. I will say this. One very interesting part of the conversation that has been a bit controversial, to at least some on the far left, as it relates to contributing to churches. Mike pence has made it very interview and also during the White House Coronavirus Task Force Briefings that people should donate to their places of worship, whether it be churches, synagogues, or mosques. Because the Ministry Still goes on even though you are not physically in the building. Host our guest is david brody. He is the chief political analyst for the christian broadcasting network. We welcome your calls and comments. 202 7488000 is the line to call for those of you in the eastern and central time zones, and 202 7488002. You mentioned the interview on justthenews. Com airing on the 700 club monday. Tell us some of the other things you heard from the Vice President as a preview to the interview. Guest sure. There were a couple of real interesting things. First of all, we talked about testing. I think that is going to be interesting to folks. His point, you know, i pushed him on this idea that there was a slow rollout on the testing. He, in essence, without admitting it mike pence has a way of saying thanks without it coming across as too harmful or bad. In terms of the slow process, he did talk about that. He talked about how there is bureaucratic redtape and they are changing the model, changing the system, and they have gone to these Rapid Testing systems as well. He believes that the key, from the administration standpoint, was that they took it away not took it away, but instead of it just being the cdc, they went to a public and private sector partnership, so that is how they are trying to change the model. We also talked about the congress and mailin voting in regards to what the democrats are trying to push for in congress and whether that is political. I cant reveal everything, but those are a few things from the interview. Host the president reacted the other day strongly to a wall street journal editorial, i think it was on thursday. The editorial ran. The title of the editorial was trumps wasted briefing, saying trump should not lead these briefings. Early on in those briefings, the Vice President had led them. Did the Vice President indicate how he thought those briefings were going . Does he think they are helpful . Guest i talked to him about the media and how the media has covered this. Interestingly, i thought he would take a bit of a jab, not a donald trump jab, but a mike pence jab, and he didnt. He said he thought the media was doing a relatively good job. He also realizes that, being the fourth estate, they will have questions. He knows they have a role and a job to do as well. He did not take the bait, if you will, because he has got some more pressing things on his hands. Host lets hear from callers. Bob in tyler, texas, you are on with david brody. Caller good morning. Speaking of rogue pastors, years ago i was on hay bales and bleacher seats listening to pastor dan cummings, who is now frequently the chaplain on the u. S. House. So he started at a cattle barn. In texas. Anyway, just this morning i am reading his book. It is about 80 pages. It is the people, the preachers, how onepoliticians womans prayer changed a nation. It is free on amazon. As like a download. This is the answer that the hebrews used. It is the answer that our founders used. And it is the only answer that i think will do anything to help america. Right now, i am in the hospital with a 97yearold mother who inadvertently got put in a covid wing for covid, when she tested totally negative for all of it. So we are praying for her, and i know jesus is the solution. And man is not. So until we bow down to our one lord and savior, we are toast. Anyway, thats about all i can say. Host good luck to you and your mom. David brody . Guest i am glad, i would say not that he buried the lead, but he is right. Jesus is the solution. What is interesting from a research perspective, from a few research perspective, more than half of all americans are praying more than they ever have before. They are praying for an end to the coronavirus pandemic. What is interesting is if you go inside those numbers, about 36 of people that call themselves religious nones, they have no religious affiliation, they are even praying. 36 of them. It goes on from there. Prayer is a good thing, and when folks that dont even believe in , whether it be jesus or any of that, if they are praying, that is something that is a positive development, for sure. Host we will hear from henry in michigan. Henry, hello there. Caller good morning. I would like mr. Brodys help in trying to resolve an inner conflict. As a liberal, mr. Brody, i am well instructed in the bible and in religious belief. And in my upbringing i have always been taught that god will not be mocked. And i believe that america has elected satan. Satan is in the white house. You interviewed one of his demons yesterday. I believe that, if i am to be reunited with my country, my country has to be reunited and instructed by the goodwill of jesus christ and his social ministry. I dont believe we are following that now. I think that this president has mocked god and that is why we are where we are today. I have no hope of being reunited with my country and with my fellow countrymen if they continue to follow satan. So how am i supposed to resolve that conflict within myself when i have been raised to hate people . And to hate the people who love people . I believe right now, there are too Many Americans in love with people, sir with people with evil, sir. Host we will get a response from david brody. Guest its a great question. I dont even know where to begin. There is so much to unpack. I will say this. You have one view of it, and there are other folks that have a much different view and believe that donald trump is in office for such a time as this, from a biblical perspective. I would just say, what you need to do, ultimately, is look at some of the actions. You will laugh, a lot of liberals well. The truth of the matter is, if you come at it from a conservative, evangelical, biblical perspective, this president has been, for example, the most prolife president in history. I can go down the list as it relates to many things he has done from a conservative, biblical perspective. And a word of god perspective that have been very positive. You will of course counter with the fact that, what about the social justice aspect . Look, there is a lot of things he has done in that area too. Remember, a lot of times and i think both sides are guilty of this you have conservative evangelicals on the one hand talking about, concentrating on certain issues in the biblical context, and you have liberals on the other hand talking about the social justice aspect of certain things. The last time i checked, jesus was not all about social justice, necessarily. He was about coming to this earth, dying for our sins, and giving everybody a chance to be with him for eternity. That is what the common bond should be on both sides. Host our guest is david brody, chief political analyst for cnbc. We go to broken bow oklahoma now. Go ahead, you are on the air. Caller i was thinking, on the church shouldhe be allowed to go to church, congregate. [indiscernible] faith in him. When you get sick, you go to jesus and pray. Why would they not . They ought to be allowed. Host we touched on that a little earlier. We will go to broken bow, oklahoma. Here we go. Jerry, you are on the line. Caller good morning. Happy easter, gentlemen. I think the distinction needs to be made between pastors who are shepherds of the flock and religion, because presently im hearing a lot of talking heads between Marianne Williamson and louis farrakhan, etc. , representing religion. But christianity and i am a christian i believe we see too many puppeteers and not enough pastors. As far as meeting together, pastors can exercise their service and their calling outside of the building. I think the church is smart enough. Thank you for your time, gentlemen. Host david brody . Guest a couple of things. First of all, i think it is interesting. We have to remember, back to the disclaimer at the beginning, most churches are following these guidelines. It really i dont want to say isnt an issue, but for the most part, it has not been an issue. Know are, like we say, we in places like tampa, florida, the pastor there has basically gone against authorities. He has now gone online, actually. In places like ohio and louisiana especially, tony at Life Tabernacle or will hold Easter Sunday service today. About 2000 people attending. But it iss happening, in pockets. That is important to point out. Also, i would just say this. The ones that are having church once again, i am not defending People Holding the services. I am just explaining from a factual standpoint what they are doing. They still are doing those social distancing guidelines. For example, some churches have removed the makeshift pews. They moved them to the side and keep families six feet apart. I am not saying that is the way to go. I am saying there are certain precautions they are taking, and that is part of their defense. Host david brody, with your interview with the Vice President done on thursday, you tweeted some photos. I want to show one of those. You say in this tweet, i was tested today for covid19 because i was doing a oneonone interview with the Vice President. The test was negative, fyi, hence the elbow bump. You had to take that test in order to get the interview . That was mandated by the white house . Guest i am glad you brought that up because i did want to bring that up. I was tested, it was negative. Here is what happened. We thought we were all going to just get temperature checks going into the white house, and we did. Then we were in the room. This took place in the Old Executive Office building. The ceremonial office. We were waiting, the interview was going to start late morning. About an hour before that, i was told, very nicely, by the way we are going to need to give you one of those rapid covid19 tests. Myself and a woman who was going to apply makeup to the Vice President. That is exactly what happened. We both went down there about an hour before the interview. It took about 10 seconds. I can tell you these rapid tests are really nothing at all. If i can just be a little graphic, it is five seconds up one nostril, and five seconds up the other. You are john and you are a little you are done and you are a little watery i and that is about it. They said they would only contact me if it came back positive, and an hour later nobody contacted me and the Vice President walked into the room. I figured i am good. Host in that hour, were you on pins and needles . Guest i dont know about pins and needles, but i was a little concerned. Journalism wen always have a plan and frankly a plan c. We were already in plan b territory with the producer i was with, who was getting ready to ask those questions i had ready for the Vice President , just in case. Host here is lawrence. We go to elk grove, illinois. Caller good morning, gentlemen. A quick comment, hopefully solace to practicing christians who are locked back home. Understand the significance of the resurrection , but what led up to it is also important. Christ dying and the reason he was crucified was because he came to earth and told the congregation, i am the sacrificial lamb. You dont need to go through the religious leaders. Prior to christ, everybody had to go to their religious leader to do the sacrifice for them. Talkt said no, you can directly to god through me. He ripped off the veil of the tabernacle. So people at home can administer to themselves. They dont need to go to a pastor or priest to tell their sins. They can go directly to god through christ. They can receive the body of christ, the communion, directly. They can administer it to themselves area themselves. We see that in christs name. People forget that, which is one of the reasons that christ was crucified. Many of the religious leaders were threatened. There were losing control and power. Christ did that all through his life. That is why he took a bullwhip to people in the temple. I dont want to make it to political. He was pointing out a lot of fake news of the day. Host lawrence, we will let you go. David brody, any thoughts on that . Guest no, he is absolutely right. There is the sermon of the morning. I think beyond that, what is is thatt to understand what he said is true. You dont have to necessarily be in a church to worship god. Is there a Community Aspect to it . Yes. His Church Important . Of course, to be around a body of believers, 100 . I think that is a lot of what people are missing, the Community Aspect to all of this. But his main point is correct, bill. This is something a lot of people dont quite get, which is christianity is called a religion, but a relationship with god is not a religion. A relationship with jesus is a personal relationship. A relationship with jesus is a personal relationship, not a relationship with religion. There is a difference between religion and church and a personal relationship with jesus. A lot of people get hung up on the religious aspect of it but this is not what it is about. This is about a personal relationship with the god of the universe. Host his comments also reminded me, we need to get some politics into the conversation. We read this story about joe biden winning the alaska primary with some 20,000 voters in that state. The lay of the land in terms of the president ial race, the Convention Already moved for democrats into august. How do you see things and focusing particularly on the democratic side how do you see things moving forward . Guest i think joe biden has a big challenge on his hands, and it doesnt have anything to do with donald trump. It has to do with Democratic Politics internally, and that is this. He has got to get the bernie folks to the polls. You know that it is all about energy, all about momentum. Energizing the base. The Democrat Party right now has to figure out, look, they have a lot of people angry at trump, but if you are angry sitting at home eating doritos, that is one thing. You have to be angry and get to the polls. The bernie folks, the millennials, not too jazzed about bernie. How does he engage them and get them to the polls . The answer would be embrace some of what bernie has been talking about and move the platform to the left. That is the problem. You want to play in a general election . You better go more towards the middle. What is biden going to do . The left to get bernies people out from the Energy Perspective . Or go middle, bluecollar, rustbelt, try to win those folks . He needs both. If you dont know which way to go, trying to thread the needle, that is difficult. And it will be pointed out by the Trump Campaign as we move towards november. Host what about the problem for the former Vice President in that he has no podium, no pulpit . The president , whatever you think of the daily briefings, the president is out there every day. Some people think in part a substitute for his rallies, but he is there every day. By the nature of the pandemic, the shutdowns, the Vice President does not have that platform. Guest no, he doesnt, and it is a real problem. Even when he tried to go virtual, he tried to read off a prompter about a month, month and a half ago from his den, library whatever it was. It was on prompter and he still messed up. He called himself a gaffe machine. This was on prompter and he talked about calling out the national guard. About 20 seconds later he said, we should callout the national guard. In other words, he was all over the place. He has a gaffe problem, for sure, virtual or otherwise. I will say this for the president though. He has his work cut out for him too. If we are going to go into june, july, august, if not in this situation, somewhat of a modified quarantine situation, what does he do with his rallies . He has a pulpit, so to speak. He has a pulpit on those daily Coronavirus Task force briefings, but his biggest pulpit of all are those rallies and right now that weapon has been taken away from him. Host a couple more calls. Trinidad, california. This is robert on the line. Caller good morning. I just wanted to say that i am a christian. I am kind of a devout christian. I sold my home, i turned my life and i wenty family, on the road for jesus for a year to search out his faith, his trust. I want to say this this morning. If we dont get on our knees and return to our first love, then we are missing the mark. That is what all this is. He just wants us to return to him. He wants us to return our hearts. If you are struggling with finding him this morning, all you have to do is picture a man hanging on the cross dying for you. He died for you. It has never been disproved. It will always be proved. All you have to do is picture that man hanging on the cross. If you are struggling finding the love for him, he hung there for you, personally you, this morning. What i want to say to everybody, you need to return to your love. Thats what this is. Get on your knees, cry out to god this morning. The bible says with a humble heart. Host all right, robert. David brody, you wrote a book a couple of years ago on the faith of donald trump. We were talking about him a moment ago. The president tweeted yesterday that he would be watching the Robert Jeffers service online. Give us a are we from the president in these recent days, some thoughts on religion . Some of his religious beliefs in terms of how he is addressing the coronavirus . Guest we are, but it is not done in a traditional way. Nothing about donald trump is traditional. That is part of what the book explains and goes into. We have to remember he is not going to say it the way forget a pastor, but just your normal evangelical that is having a brunch at Cracker Barrel after the service. That is not him. He is going to say it in his way, but the truth of the matter is that he has ushered in a whole bunch of evangelical christianity type policies from a conservative perspective that have been very helpful, and he is seeking out prayer in the white house. It is a story that does not get told much. Donald trump is part of the reason why this happens. Let me explain. Donald trump is the law and order guide, and that is what he wants to project. Behind the scenes it is much different. He is much more compassionate behind the scenes. He is seeking out prayer behind the scenes and inviting in people who want to pray with him and pray for our country and for guidance for him. A lot of that doesnt get told as much, but it is happening. It is interesting because normally, politicians want to do the exact opposite. They want to kiss the baby in public, they want to show the softer side. Donald trump does not want you to see that. He wants you to see the law and order side, but he does have a softer side. I will to say this, in response to the last caller about prayer, he is absolutely right. We do as a country need to get down on our knees. What is interesting is from a Google Analytics standpoint, this past march the search term prayer was searched more often this march than it has been in the last five years. Clearly people are i will put this in air quotes turning to prayer compo whether it be searching for it or saying they are doing it more often. That is good and it is something we should do more often. Host here is isabel in missouri. Caller good morning. Wondering when you were with mike pence if you got the sense that they were going to fix the issue of ticketing the people at the drive up service . We have a church, my husband is a pastor. We have a drivein service. Porch side. We downsized our worship team so our people could see. We do zoom for our sunday school classes. Host is that a threat there . Has your governor threatened to ticket people that come to the services . Caller no, no, he has not. We do everything in compliance of what we are supposed to do. But upon hearing the news of other states doing this, i do feel like that is an infringe on the religious side of that. Light, they should not be doing that. I really feel that that is a president ial thing. As a government, they should step in and go, that is on the freedom of religion. They are not being next to someone, they are not threatening someone. I dont think that it is no different than going to mcdonalds, or whatever, as far as socializing, car accidents, or anything else. Host what time are your services this morning, isabel . Caller 10 45. Guest thanks for calling, happy easter. Guest i think isabel is onto something important. In terms of my interview with the Vice President , we were talking specifically about pastors that were Holding Church inside in the pews. We didnt get into drivein services. Having said that, we know the department of justice is going to be coming out this week with, we believe, some sort of guidelines. We are not sure exactly what it is going to be, but it is going to address what isabel is talking about, the sense of what is protected and what is not under the First Amendment when it comes to what is going on with Church Services and the coronavirus. Expect that guidance this week. You can be sure the president and the Vice President will have a lot more to say. I will say one last thing. Isabel makes an interesting point. This is part of the concern among evangelical christians. Wait a minute, if you are going into parking lots, taking down license plates or giving people tickets for being in a Church Parking lot, hold on. Why are we not going into mcdonalds, chipotle, other places where there is drivers . Not chipotle, but mcdonalds and others. There is 10, 15, 20 cars in a line. Why are those folks not getting tickets . That is an essential service. This is part of the issue. His church essential or not essential . That gets into issues as it relates to religious exemptions. We can talk about that another time. Host david brody, chief analyst for the christian broadcasting network. Look for his interview with mike pence this week
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