And brought to you today by your television provider. Teresa patent is the author payton is the author of manipulated and you write i am what many consider to be a conspiracy theorist. Why . I want people to understand i came at this book from this trustging i had to not anything and be a critical thinker to arrive at what i believe are well researched conclusions and approaches to angst. Mind will run wild and i will write down that wild theory and also write down an opposing theory. As i do, i research, whether it is a forensics case because there has been a cyber incident, or whether working on a book, i always have a competing hypothesis, so as i do my research, i start to make sure i believe ising what i a factbased decision. Peter what in your professional background would lead you to be that conspiracy theorist . Irishalk about my grandmother and her influence on me. And evena lot of books a lot of people in my family have this perspective, am always getting the straight scoop from people . Forgo to learn to think myself and that is something my parents and grandparents and greatgrandparents ingrained in me. That you maybe told certain things by yourself. Youre the government or other governments, but make sure you always apply Critical Thinking andgo to many sources decide to think for yourself. Dont let people tell you how to think. And it has served me very well because i started off working on cutting edge, Innovative Technologies in banking. In doing so, i ended up on the front lines of fraudsters and money launderers and that gave of, i always had to be thinking about, when i do this action, there could be people taking a negative action or taking advantage. So that Conspiracy Theory plays well in thinking ahead to, what is the worst thing that could happen and how could unknown operatives take advantage of a situation . Were you at one time they. You were the government, correct . Theresa yes. I had the honor of serving as a political appointee during president george w. Bushs administration. I was there the second half of the second term. Think, theople might sun is setting in the moon is rising for a new administration, what could be going on . The Bush Administration had a we leave everything better than we found it. One thing he was fiercely committed to was the senior staff working there making sure that modernization efforts of the building, the process, the technology and security were setting up future administrations for success. So it wasnt just about his legacy, it was about leaving things better than we found it. I had the honor of serving the country at the white house for almost two and a half years, modernizing Technology Infrastructure and how we thought about protecting technical infrastructure that serves the admission of serves the mission of the president. Peter what was your title . Theresa chief information officer. I was the first female to hold that role. Basically, decisions around the scope of the job are made by the current administration. The job has abs and of Different Levels of responsibilities flows of Different Levels of responsibilities. I met so many amazing men and women serving in the military, secret service, cia, nsa, fbi, different epic details in the executive office of the president. A great group of people, many still serving. What didresa payton, that experience lend to your manipulated, which you say is the most important book you have written. Theresa when i got there, i thought i knew a lot about the capability of the adversary. I was working in Financial Services on the unfortunate day america. N i was on the front lines of trying to understand the Money Laundering and terrorist wasncing and how that happening in the American Bank anrastructure, and had opportunity to work on making sure we were providing information to protect customer privacy while at the same time Answering National security concerns around terrorist financing. How doesme to think, the adversary target the Financial Services industry . I thought i had seen a lot. But once i got to the white inuse and started being read to special programs, i realized i was looking through a keyhole of a broom closet and what was a multilevel, thousands squarefoot mansion, so to speak , and i had only one vertical view of the capabilities of the adversary. And as i was leaving the administration, i told my family , it wasike the country my lifes calling to give back, so evangelizing the work we do in cybersecurity for companies, the government and individuals. The reason it motivated me to write this book is that, as we were going into the 2016 election cycle, i wasnt so much cyberd around our operatives meddling with our election. I was really focused on how cyber operatives that were nationstate trained were using manipulation and misinformation to social engineer companies, break in, steal intellectual property, steal consumer data, whatever the cybercrime tactic. And that is when i uncovered that they were actually manipulating us on social issues, and it was a global problem. Payton, as we conduct this interview, are there Cyber Attacks happening on u. S. Government structures . Theresa yes. There absolutely is an ongoing challenge. Not every country is like this, in america, a big part of our infrastructure that is Critical Infrastructure is owned by the private sector. The internet,f Many Companies we rely upon our private structure and not government or military infrastructure. But the attacks are real. Attacksay not realize, against corporate america, small businesses, your residential infrastructure and our government infrastructure, it is an onslaught on a daily basis. You have to realize that us good guys in cybersecurity have to get it right every minute, but the bad guys just have to get it right once, and then they have their payload. Weve learned the average number of days cyber operatives are actually in a corporate infrastructure before anybody knows they are there is about 150 days. Imagine if somebody had access to crown jewels for 100 50 days. What could they do . They could run off with them. That is the near and present danger we are facing everyday. Is an attack on x. Pictures, should that be considered an act of war . Theresa its interesting, you are right, the laws have not kept up with technology. That is a Stark Technology we will face for many decades to come, that by the time we figure out a law and have the people on the hail get along long enough to pass the law, it has got to be updated. Our International Treaties are also outdated. So what happens to a company like sony, with headquarters in and anger, had north korea actually set the place on with ao major damage bomb or other physical, kinetic methods, it would have been called an act of war on u. S. Soil. But because it was something you can see or touch and was digital, it is not seen the same way. International treaties and our laws are woefully outdated to handle this. To gety, we really need around a deal table and hammer out, with our allies and with our enemies, hammer out International Treaties around the cyber domain. Peter is that doable . Theresa it absolutely is doable. From timest changes to time, who we get along with n2 we dont get along with, and it is something we could use as a diplomatic bargaining chip, to say these are the things that are off limits, and if these crimes originate from your country, this is how we want you to treat those crimes. This is something that needs to should doned, and in multilateral agreements. At thed be discussed u. N. And that nato and definitely needs to happen, because each countrys future relies upon it. Ther what do you think of proposed cyber branch of the pentagon . Theresa it is a fantastic idea. We have a situation where it couldbe incredible if we to considerwomen the u. S. Military as a career option to get the schooling and training and spent the time serving, even if they dont make disclosure,it outsides of my family are from career military and im married to a navy veteran. But it could be an incredible way to have a nation of people trained in this, serving their country that can then serve in the private sector to defend our Critical Infrastructure through privatesector operations. I love the idea. It is something that needed to happen a decade ago. But it is never too late. Peter your book is called manipulated and you talk about electoral manipulation and interference, but you write political interference is nothing new. Theresa that is true. Historicale doing Background Research for the readers, because i wanted to show this wasnt just something that came about because we have social media. History shows to us that as soon as there were human beings walking on earth, there was political espionage going on. Taking a walk down history to show where countries including the u. S. Leverage propaganda countrys, and each justifies why they used propaganda campaigns. For america, the justification has been overthrowing what we perceive to be corrupt regimes. Im not a politician but im happy to walk through with people on policy, policy everybodyo i do walk through that then show them the different types of propaganda over the years to help us establish that this is an ,ngoing, human nature battle and as long as there are Different Countries vying to be economic powers or superpowers are wanting a seat at the big kids table, so to speak, that you are going to have espionage happen. It could be economic, political, social. The other thing i showing the shalls that today, i show in the book is that today it is more about picking winners and losers. That perfected these campaigns perfect them on their own citizens first because they want to show their regime as the citizens best interests at heart. You wouldnt want what americans have come a look, they argue with each other and you certainly wouldnt want to become part of the eu, look at the u. K. , they are leaving brexit. Perfect so they these manipulation campaigns at home first and then tweak them abroad. Them abroad use them abroad. Peter our misinformation areaigns profitable misinformation campaigns profitable . Great question. I found that when they were meddling in other affairs, it was mostly to embarrass political officials or potentially be picking winners and losers. Nationstates also find that it is very lucrative. Revenue off these misinformation and manipulation campaigns. Guess who else benefits . Andal Media Companies different news organizations that on not the toptier, also makingy are money in the process. A story came out that said qanon was promoting all sorts of disinformation campaigns and facebook, because they were using ads, make money off qanon misinformation campaigns. So the system is in a place where, in order to shut this down, you could have people saying my freedom of speech is being stepped on. But the other thing you are shutting down is revenue. Payton, you write that in 2016, 100 26 million users of facebook were subjected to russian operative content. Theresa yes. Again, how do you ask americans to unsee something . Especially if what they saw play to a confirmation bias . We are vulnerable to misinformation campaigns, in which a campaign may be amplified to get you to have a reaction either positive or negative . Exposed so many people to these misinformation campaigns, the question is, where does that leave us . It leaves many people throwing their hands up and saying, i dont know what to believe. That is part of the manipulators playbook. Because if they can cast doubt trusted, vetted institutions within the media, it leaves you open to believing , especially if you see something that fits her confirmation bias. A study was done where people posted misinformation campaigns. Amebody pointed out it was misinformation campaign, it was false, and they did not remove the post and did not correct themselves. They left it up because they fit a narrative because it fit a narrative for them. They dont mind leaving it there even though they know it is false, because it fits their confirmation bias. Peter it is often said that we are fighting the last war, so russian interference in the 2016 election, are we fighting that 2016 war or are we looking ahead to 2020 . . News is, we good have moved ahead. The bad news is, so have cyber operatives in nationstates progress is not alone. China, north korea and iran all look at what russia was able to accomplish, and they are in on the action. I even write about macedonia. They dont want to manipulate our election, they just want to make money. They are pure capitalists, the macedonian operations. So they will promote whatever makes them the most money. They are not picking winners and losers are creating disruption, they are just about the money. Here are great things that have happened since 2016. Told the social Media Companies that they had to come up on the hill and had to do a these job with disinformation campaigns and fighting the good fight. They are doing better but a lot more needs to be done. Probing ofing around the states Voter Registration bases, donor roles, websites that tell you when you can early vote, how to get your absentee ballots. A lot of work has been done with and the department of Homeland Security to improve our election security. We are not fighting the last battle of the last president ial cycle. We have upped our game. Russia, china, north korea, iran have not given up and unscrupulous political operatives here in america are social media for misinformation and manipulation campaigns. The key thing for people to take theses, dont allow campaigns to convince you your vote doesnt matter. Because that is when they win. You have to vote. Allow these campaigns to influence what you vote for and against. Make sure you are checking sources, measuring what you are hearing, reading, seeing and actually doing your own fact checking. Have confidence in our electronic voting systems . Theresa we have documented challenges with electronic voting systems. Everything is hackable and if somebody tells you it is not, run the other direction, they dont know what theyre talking about. There are documented vulnerabilities in our electronic voting processes and equipment. What gives me hope in this election is the amount of and processes to make sure that where these vulnerable elegies are known, there are mitigating controls. Where there are vulnerabilities with equipment, that equipment has failsafes put into place, multilayered, that would make it hard to attack an election at some level of scale. Puterent audit process had processes have been put in place. Been disabusede that thereion wouldnt be a paper trail, and there has been training of precinct captains and volunteers. A lot of work has been done. Does that mean we are a regularity free . No. But i have faith in the volunteers and the state wards of elections. This ave thought about lot, rehearsed, practiced disasters and are going to do their best. But it is a pandemic and the wildcard is going to be how many people vote in person versus, will we have an unprecedented amount of people requesting absentee or leveraging mail in ballot processes . And will the states be prepared to handling that volume . Up on used to staying Election Night and watching the but the process is to count paper ballots may take longer than we are use to. Asked tove you been participate in manipulation campaigns in other countries . Theresa we have. Our justification is, it is with corrupt regimes to help with regime change and give citizens better access to democracy. We could have a political debate on whether that is fair and warranted. Is that is why i believe it time we need additional treaties to cover the theft of International Intellectual Property and personal data and political espionage and how social media platforms, and people dont even think about video distribution platforms and email anymore, but i tile thought into social media, which is distribution of information, digital, but also audio and video. Nowadays is cheaper, faster to use, faster to produce deepfake documents, videos and photos. That is where the new frontier is going with manipulation you reallywhere think you and i are talking at you and i are saying something and somebody can manipulate the audio and video to make it appear we said something different. These do you see manipulation cyberattack says threats to democracy . Theresa i do. The reason i spent so much time and when i first had this book project idea before the 2016 election, i went and she said and i said, manipulation campaigns are being used for social engineering. Thinke said i dont people are going to want to pay to be scared. I didnt have an inkling it would be used at the scale it was with russia and the 2016 election. We all learned later the scale russia was able to pull off in their manipulation and disinformation campaigns. The evolution of these campaigns, as he new Technology Comes out, new social media it is outpacing us experts in cybersecurity and intelligent. Peter what is your work today . Theresa we do incident response. Peter its a company . A company,founded portal solutions, we do cybersecurity, incident response, help companies prevent incidents from happening and provide intelligence operations to help them understand whether targeting themts and whether information is traded on the dark web unbeknownst to them. Is,thing we are seeing these manipulation campaigns can for sociald at scale engineering campaigns. Go through this pandemic and many employees are working from home, now theyve got multiple jobs, thinking about the elderly in their family, some have kids doing whether it isng, hybrid are 100 remote, hybrid or 100 remote, and that manipulational campaigns are taking advantage of the situation. Michael payton is asa former white house officer and the author of manipulated, which came out into thousand 20. Thanks for joining us. Youre watching cspan, your unfiltered view of government created by americas the contenders, about the men who ran for the presidency and lost but changed political history. Tonight, south dakota senator and u. S. Ambassador to the u. N. , george mcgovern. The contenders tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Senate Judiciary Committee chair Lindsey Graham joins the South Carolina chapter of the Federalist Society for a forum on judicial nominations. After his remarks, legal experts discussed the role of the federal judiciary, the Senate Confirmation process, vetting of nominees, and tenure of federal judges. Afternoon, all