In the region. I also really want to thank our partners, the new europe center, for all the support they have provided. It is a perfect lineup of speakers ready to contribute tonight. Today, we want to dig a little bit more into the subject of ukraine and georgia relationship with nato, and especially how these countries fit [cheers and applause] [no audio] announced by nato secretarygeneral jan stoltenberg. Eventually, this process may to a new strategic concept, and this is not a luxury. The current one dates back to 2007, if i am not mistaken, so i would argue there is a need to rethink nato strategy. The world has certainly changed in the last 10 years. Theink, for instance, about increased presence of china and the European Security landscape. The continued assertiveness of russia and key regions for transAtlantic Security, but also new challenges. Hybrid warfare and cyber attacks. The alliance needs to address these challenges. That also includes how nato engages with partners. It is crucial that countries like ukraine or georgia are reflection this 2030 process, because increasingly, natos adaptation is depending also on their relationship with partners. Nutshell, these are issues we should discuss today. The 2030xpect from reflection process, why does this process matter, and what is the role of partners like ukraine or georgia . Experts on the panel will give us an exclusive preview of a report that they wrote on this subject, so let me actually panel of our speakers today. The director of the new york center, welcome to you. The cofounder of the Georgian Institute for strategic studies, europeanber of the parliament and also actually a experts, the group of of the nato reflection process. Thank you very much for taking the time to be with us. Expecting olga to join us, the deputy Prime Minister for European Affairs for transatlantic integration of ukraine. [inaudible] we will obviously include her in this conversation. This conversation is on the record. We will first turn to our speakers, but then also go to you, the audience, for q a. We really want this to be an interactive debate, so feel free, do use the zoom chat function. I will be closely monitoring that and transferring your questions to our panelists. Minutes leftout 60 and one ofnversation the officers of this report [inaudible] track. N which priorities do you see emerging . Good evening. Good evening from kiev. Let me thank brussels for the Great Partnership in organizing this event. Alsonk the discussion is indeed proper, because as we just before we joined the nato Reflection Group members, the secretary general of stoltenberg in order to present their ideas and their contributions to make the reflections for 2040. With regards to ukraine, we are pretty sure that in order to be envisioned, in order to be comprehensive, nato reflections for 2014 need to take into account georgia. We, with our georgian partners from the Georgian Institute, developed joint ukrainiangeorgian accommodations through the reflection process. Will accommodations [inaudible] and we are happy we can discuss them today as well. We believe the treaty caneorgian find for the 2040 reflection process. The previous document made reference to cooperation with the russian federation. I think it is of fundamental importance, the new strategic documents that reflect all materialitys as a new challenger to Atlantic Security. And the changing dynamic. Forget that when we are talking about ukraine and georgia, we are talking about a double who have meaning, or are playing double roles. Aspiringies that are to become nato members. Let me elaborate on that a little bit. . Do ukraine and georgia the gop program, the demonstration of the two theiries contributions to operations and mission, as well of between [inaudible] both countries have proven they , butot only contributed to europes Atlantic Security. They have taken an effective part in the alliance contribution and operations. Ukraine, for example, is the only partner to correctly contribute this to all nation natoled operations. Are two of georgia the three countries that are not made no members. Membership in nato [inaudible] conscious, it is a and responsible choice of our country, ukraine and georgia. [inaudible] policy and security priorities. We should support a level of and a level society. This is probably the first time in ukraines history that there was a change of president and call ofnt, and the major integration has not been challenged for a while. About thee talking nato membership, we are not suggesting. Ukraine and georgia will become nato members. Plan thatship action we can see, ukraine and georgia as our next logical step in the european integration. This is mentioned as the next georgia onaine and their path to remember path to membership. Applicationth the of this, it would not be selective. Actuallynd ukraine should be a roadmap to the membership, and amongst other things, i think it is important willntion that this policy encourage georgia and ukraine to improve practices and advance natosgenda, because policy remains in up report and policymakers. It helps our countries institutions, both locally and militarily. This is also natos interest to support the interests of the countries. By doing so, nato will expand the community of likeminded, faithful, and predictable democracy. Is in natos interest as well. [inaudible] of the region. [inaudible] our strategic location put both ukraine and georgia at the center of any debates in the region. A joint assessment of participation with georgia and ukraine. [inaudible] last but not least, in our view, [inaudible] georgia and ukrainian can be successful in identifying the life. S faced by the conflict, or in which russia has initiated, because we should remember that russia at the moment is the frozenone producer of. It is a convenient place to undermine international law, which involve smuggling, which involve. Andink i will stop here turn now more to our recommendations. Thank you very much. This was a very good kick off i would say. I appreciate you going over ukraines role, not only as a consumer, but as a security provider. I think that is a pretty important point. Going back to the georgian point of view, i am making a plea to better consider the role of Companies Like georgia and ukraine in the process. What would be your recommendation from a georgian perspective . Thank you very much. First of all, thank you very much to the organizers and to our partners for producing this report. It is great, because i actually do see a huge value in hearing the voices. If you look at how the realities on the ground, but also the dynamics are changing, i think the value of the partners will be increasing in years to calm, because the collective defense as such is going to be you have to have a holistic view about the collective defense. Have been in that close cooperation and partnership nowadays and if seeing the natural resolution of this partnership for 30 years and have been reliable partners throughout this time, in a neighborhood which actually sees a very unpredictable environment has been stably democratic, i would say, maybe not consolidated, of oars, but we are still trying to keep ourselves on the track of being democratic. I think that is extremely important. Mentioned, we have been contributing to international security. Georgia is small, ukraine is bigger than us, but we were trying to punch above our weight , because in spite of having these terrible problems of our own, i think that georgia and ukraine have made a very serious case about being a contributor, but also credible throughout this time. I want to take a Bigger Picture view right now of why i think it is a window of opportunity for both sides, for nato and for georgia and you rain. The region has seen a very dramatic change of the dynamics about aecent weeks, for month and a half, and we have a very different status quo right now. Many see this not only as a perception level right now, but also on a practical level, as a weakness of the west in the way, seeing it as pushed out or cut out of a region which it actually, conditionally has been always present in. Nowadays, the status quo actually says something else, and considering that, and considering that georgia and ukraine remain prowestern for quite some time, i think for nato and for the ones coming up should think about what is going to be the value of these countries in different dimensions. I will try to explain what are these dimensions. I will talk about the dimensions, the military ones, but also something we have to be thinking about, which provided there is going to be a rethinking in washington, probably, after the new administration comes in. Some of the points that are going to be made already are pretty interesting and away, because i think there is going to be a new thinking for the region as well. With that in mind, i would like to make two cases now. This is also part of our report, but i think young democracies deservergia and ukraine to have a better understanding traction,e better because they are the ones who have proven to continue the thecratic trend in region. Others are looking up at us. Belarus, many of the people are thinking everything is deadlocked in our region as well. Then there was a very Interesting Development in armenia. Everyone was thinking that that is not going to happen, but it a happening because they heed successful of being present in the vicinity, or the region. If you have young democracies like georgia or ukraine and you give them a chance, an open door policy the selectivity of the opendoor policy definitely shouldnt be the case, because while we are building this case, there is a very clear political message. We do have a clear political message for quite some time, but those messages should be sent out my more practical means. Frankly speaking, you know, no one in the region has a problem with the practical side of our operation, with nato. We are enhanced opportunities partners, we have very good initiatives, and these will continue for quite some time. When it comes to political sides , we are still understanding the that are behind. For nato, as you rightly mentioned, it also gives relevance to nato, because nato has to find itself to be relevant. Much more than just military considerations, but it gives them the power of the they can have. I think that is a very important element. When it comes to strategic considerations, both georgia and ukraine are not indispensable to natos eastern plan. I think they are extremely important. Why . We are transit routes, we are infrastructure hubs, one way or have been trying to get away from the russian cloud to be independent and to have a free hand. Let it be land, maritime, or air , cargo is extremely important. In the years to come, we will see that other players will be answering the region. Right now, it has been more cautious for some of them, but china is definitely having plans to get more fdr i. They are thinking about various projects. We can talk about that as well. There is going to be a turkey connection, which is a member of nato, but with increasingly independent policy. That is a new factor, i think, that all of us have to be thinking about. Georgia is a partner and is an ally of turkey, and has been continuing for quite some time. Of course, we have russia. Socalledays has quotation marks, a special understanding of where they are and why they are in the region. Considering the inclusion of georgia and ukraine and a new wave of political extension will be extremely important. There is a greater value to nato as well, because nato has space in the black sea, everyone recognizes them, that the needs to bek reinforced. Everyone understands that. Let me just ask you to round up here, because we want other speakers to intervene. Just two more minutes, one minute . 30 seconds. 30 seconds, ok. Georgia and ukraine are indispensable when it comes to the plan southeast of the alliance. I think that is extremely important, and there are different ways, and i can talk later about initiatives, which will be coming up shortly. Lets get back to some of your points. We want to an interactive debate, so lets have time for everyone to intervene. Joiningu very much for us and you presented some of your conclusions today with the nato leadership. I would love to hear your insights there, but also perhaps let me give you this question, if i may. Almost 10 years ago, nato also had a group of experts which was then chaired by madeleine right, and there it their job was to advise on nato 2020. I remember the big debate back then was whether nato should be unalliance that should be engaged globally or if it was o focus on article five territory. You think the debate today is different . Has strengthened its partnerships, it needs to be outward looking. I will answer your question, very quick. Butdebate goes on, surely, iou an explanation. Able toay we were for nato secretarygeneral. Unfortunately, for todays meeting, we are still obliged to by thelent until obliged nato foreign ministers, silence until there debate, which is to happen on december 1. Then our report is to become public. Patienceintain some. I am so much intertwined in the affairs of georgia and ukraine both countriesy to nato, which might be interesting to all of you. I still remember my visit to ukraine. It was august of 2006. Standing together with the foreign minister in front of a panel of journalists. We were debating ukraines eventual exception to International Organizations like the eu, and there were some remarks about nato as well. I would say the spirit about nato was rather not was rather it negative. Everyone was afraid of speaking openly about nato, although i know the will was already there at that time. Years ande last six for itsfighting territorial integrity made a change within public perception. Also, engagement of ukraine in between, ukraine signed a Framework Agreement well. Ou as in my previous capacity as chairwoman on security and defense, i met both ukraine and georgian soldiers in many nations all over the world. Truly, i can prove with my own are that both countries for a newof Security Member states and nato allies. That is true. That is true. Both countries are extremely important, and same with georgia. I still remember talking to numerous representatives of nato and most predominantly georgian population it is most prominently the most pronato in the world. Now within nato, we tend to complain about public support, necessity to extend public ensure, torograms to populations of the value and benefits and contributions of nato to world security. Evident theia is it major part of society thinks like this . Positive in both countries. Remember another event. [inaudible] i was sent by him to consult some. In particular, those who were reluctant about both countries at this time. Bucharest ofd in course, as well, so i remember the debates and all engagements. Eyesthing jumped before my and those discussions. Was a promise in bucharest, and i think both become natoll members. Later on, i remember responses others during the nato parliamentary assembly. He replied very clearly that yes, this promise ends. I think we have to repeat this. They witnessed all those things. I hope that the developments of nato, because opendoor policy is still valid, it ended bywledge and acknowledged all of us. It is sometimes difficult to end tensions and a very difficult debate. We remain united. That is a contemporary message, i think, about nato. We want to stay like this and are,y, georgia and ukraine in my private opinion, which i am entitled to say now, are very important factors to keep this position of nato. Thank you. Thank you very much for your encouraging words. Im sorry, its important that personalities like yours express these opinions. It is most useful. Let me turn to our last but not ah. St, gaia guid deeply involved in the policymaking and agenda setting, so thanks for joining us. I wanted to, perhaps, poke your brain with a small question here. We have been hearing from all our speakers that look, ukraine and georgia, we are security providers as well, and nato and the alliance all benefit from our potential membership. My question to you is that itbership is not that easy, is not based on quantitative measurements. It is also a political decision. Perspective, do we deal with this need for political decisions . You, first of all, let me express our apologies for not today, deputy Prime Minister. She was really looking forward to this event, due to someon unforeseen situation, she had to be at a very important meeting. We are very sorry for this, but i am very grateful to all of the all members, and to center for organizing this event, and especially we are who provideexperts their opinion and recommendations, and very solid analysis of ukraine and georgias contribution to Atlantic Security and their role in you security architecture. It is very important for us, for the government, and i hope that the Reflection Group also will take into account their recommendations. Know that the Ukrainian Center met about recommendations of immunity. We are lucky to have such strong involvement of experts in this process. Yesterday, question we had a very good discussion, also organized by the center, and we talked about nato, enhanced opportunities, and how take advantage of this program. While our foreign partners say that we should talk not only availability, but also political ones. To make ukraine politically the same as the nato members. I think when we will have this common understanding, then underwent this important political reforms that ukraine achieved through the rule of law. Questione will be no at all of membership. Time, and now of task. Uld work on our home would like to make a few thets, if i may, about ukraine region from the government, about what is the atlanticre all in your security. Sure, of course. We are on the same page with region iss, so our byy close to those presented experts, but i would like to express these viewpoints. Participation in that reflection process is a good example of support, and it also shows that ukraine is important from development in the next 10 years. We should always keep this in mind. Ukraine is part of European Security, so it is logical that would take back in this process. Alliance for the their trust and confidence in us. Nato has a strong commitment to opendoor policy and. Sorry, can we take a short break, because i think the deputy Prime Minister will join us. Absolutely. While you are securing the participation of the deputy Prime Minister, we will get to some questions. Some let mee take some of the observations of our viewers. Some viewers are referring also to the role that russia plays in this whole equation. , ahave a comment here retired u. S. Ambassador, who says that president george bush back then pledged that nato will not come to the russian border, and is there any indication that this policy has changed . Thats one question we got. Who sayhave viewers that perhaps we went to fast, the European Union and nato with our integration to the east and not understanding moscow. These are two comments we received. , just want to ask our panel obviously, nato has relationships with ukraine and georgia should we consider , what russia means for this . You first. Thank you. Just a quick comment on a , [inaudible] gorbachev himself said in 2014, there is a pledge from nato Member States i am happy to discuss it here, actually. As far as i remember, what the germans and americans agreed to, nok in 1990, there would be nongerman nato forces in the territory of the former gdr. There was no pledge. I think it is important to remember that, because i know this is very popular. The ambassador is reacting, saying that gorbachev himself denies that. Thats what i said. It was in 2014. I think he was interviewed by the german media i dont remember. On russia, yes, you know, our shouldn is that russia not have that right on our integration to nato, and you concerns, there are some concerns among some nato Member States, they dont want to make any moves that could, like, provoke russia or Something Like that. We have had similar discussions, for example, during the last couple of years, when ukraine applied for eop. We are also concerned, and found the Member States were quite reluctant to grant ukraine this status, explaining that it could destabilize the region and provoke russia, but ukraine was granted the status, a couple of andhs ago, four months ago, we were quite consistent. We planned why we needed that and why it is important for ukraine, for nato and our relations. Needed it because sometimes, we had a feeling that you know, our nation is like a stationary bike. We invest in a lot of our moving and we are not forward, you know . Eop was , and i think we have to focus all our energy and all our focus in ,rder to get an action plan both for ukraine and georgia, especially for georgia, because our position here and my position i know that many ukrainians share this position, that georgia, you know, [inaudible] progress, alot of lot of progress in terms of for theirtandards military institutions. Not fromshould that. I appreciate that you stressed the fact that those concerns that russia would be educated are not concerns at all. Nothing happens. Let me get back to you, actually. For you Member States that are concerned, from your experience in georgia, how do we deal with those Member States who have concerns with no grounds, apparently . Just to continue with the question that was posed before, arst and foremost, nato is contested alliance. Those sensitivities, i dont see that being a legitimate, because outcomest see that the will be beneficial for all, because they have their own worldview and they want everyone else to comply with that. Veto, i thinky that is extremely important. If that principle stands, i think we are going to be undermining many important is this andhy nato why the states are attracted to is. The deputy Prime Minister just joined from the car, and she has quite a limited amount of time, so deputy Prime Minister, thanks for joining us. Please enjoy your car ride. It is really wonderful you are with us for this amount of time. We have a very simple question for you, deputy Prime Minister. His ukraines nato integration on track, and what are the priorities for your country on this track . Thank you so much. I am so sorry that i did not manage to join earlier, but we had a discussion with the president on eop and other staff, so i decided that i would be late, but i would still deliver the result when we are speaking. The easytion is one, because things are very well on track. The eop statutes within nato, we made the analysis and prepare the roadmap of our participation in this event and we are about to sign it, but also we are very highlevel political dialogue with the capital, and we think as Ukrainian Military are developing and new strategies are adopted and outstanding legislation is standing for adoption, we are ready to talk about broader context and first of all, we are talking about the role of ukraine generally as the country think region, and we we should not have to discuss the issue of membership of nato. It is the reflection process, thethis is not only about membership, the new administration will show them to the global arena and i think we have a slight connection problem, but lets give it one second. Maybe it will come back. Ok. Meantime, maybe when the deputy Prime Minister comes back, we will return to her. [inaudible] ok. Particularly in terms of nato. Welcome back. To cut a long story short, the connection could be better [inaudible] with very good speed and transformations on nato standards, on security in a basically, ukraine. It is top priority from the i am the deputy Prime Minister in charge of the integration. We are coordinating all the issues and are here to speed the processes up, and i think it is happening. Deputy Prime Minister, thank you very much for those remarks. Your connection is slightly unstable, so i think we will have you enjoy your car ride for now. We are grateful you took the time to join for those remarks, and i think your message was indeed very well received. Thanks very much, and we wish you a very pleasant evening. , let me get back to you, perhaps. The deputy Prime Minister said ukraine is on track, we are andrnizing, weve got eop, we have heard all these achievements have not triggered the reaction from russia. Further from go member . Matt to what should be the plan here . Is themost important political will and understanding the importance of those ukraine, georgia and as our partners. Particular with the quite complicated international environment, i think that while we acknowledge both countries being on track, it is also an incentive for both governments and respective societies to and to overcome tensions, to have broad support, to trying to overcome divisions. The current reflection process to todays experts of enhancing political roles of nato. I think those issues also have to be taken into account. Nato, ithat both eu and say this because we maintain the process of cooperation between both organizations and to both georgia ands, bu ukraine are extremely important. Associated countries with strong voices to make special efforts to make them even closer. In particular, it is quite loud in my region, central and eastern europe. I share the view that was presented, that we have geopolitical, i would say, changes in the broad picture as well, and we have to take this into account and bring countries that are the most stable in our , not youngd historically, but in terms of reforms. We want to have them closer. That is true. Absolutely. To say the third countries should not have the veto right. Extended tonato russia numerous times. Actually, it was russias choice to pursue a rather aggressive policy. Intove to simply take this account, maintaining, of course, of communication with the kremlin as well. Thank you. Fotega. You, ms. Let me get back to you apologies to cut you short a few moments ago. Ms. Fotega mentions political will to move forward. Can were asking, what georgia and ukraine do to persuade western politicians that we need to ratify and e. U. Membership . How do we change the views, according to your opinion . First of all, i think we have to continue being reliable. Thats extremely important and i will explain what i mean by being reliable. We have to be eight reliable democracy a reliable democracy. I think the value of being trustworthy, the value of being a young democracy which continues to be successful, that is a practical dimension, those physical dimensions are important, because we have to show we are a functional state. We have to be able to graduate thatany dysfunctionality is associated with this part of the region. That will continue. Pretty sure that when the time comes, if we continue to, on that track, there was going to be a window of opportunity. It might be a bigger change of the picture we have been talking about or it might be a different experience. I think the governments here in haveia and also in kiev to understand [no audio] hello . Continue to knock on the door. Do you hear me . We hear you again. Thank you very much. Ok, sorry. We also have to continue to be knocking on the door. It is extremely important to continue to knock on the door, to express the will which is uninterrupted. That we want to be nato members. We have to continue to be part of the International Conversations and contributing to any missions which we think that our participation will add value to. I think there is also a significant importance to the politicians. Ton we have to be explaining the major capitals what we mean by our value, and how that is going to be coming forward. I am pretty sure there was skepticism with any type of enlargement we have been seeing. Peopletalked to a lot of in the baltic countries, and they were telling me stories, no one even wanted to hear their argument in the beginning. Nonstarter at the beginning. Ifo believe that if weif we co, we continue doing our job of being a reform minded and continue with our democracy there will be a time where there is simply not going to be a lot of opportunities to refuse to come up with no answers. There are also considerations that i am talking about when it comes to the changes. I think the value will be seen in where we are and how we have behaved so far. Thank you. Let me get back to you for a second. We have a question which i would by a fellow in italy. Whether you see future cooperation between nato and the Eu European Partnership initiatives in the areas we are discussing today. She is also arguing that reforms undertaken in ukraine and other countries may be regressing and whether this regression of reforms will impact any possibility for nato membership . Uhhhhh. I think sometimes on some direction not forget that ukraine probably is the country in the world now which is implementing hasrms and to which improved its democracy. While waging a war. The only war in europe which is the russian war against ukraine. It is still like a war. Termss why we are even in of reform, we have a lot of politicians prorussian forcesians, political and theyrted by russia are promoting the russian narrative in ukraine and i would suggest that because some of the processes up,some of the signs show but you know that [indiscernible] elements essed what i would like to say is the picture is quite complicated. It is not black and white. There are some improvements and some practices the situation is really complicated and still ukraine is moving forward and that is why to havery important this light at the end of the tunnel. To see that this membership perspective thank you very much. Unfortunately we are nearing the end of this event. Like to turn our final comments to the deputy Prime Minister who has rejoined us for maybe final comments. Close, you are now part of the nato reflection process as well. Do you see any opportunities for eu nato cooperation to strengthen the resilience of countries like georgia and ukraine . Countries that both both organizations are very much focused on cooperation with and theyia and ukraine have very strong report there is very strong support for both countries. I just wanted very briefly to and at on earlier question or remark about reforms in both countries. We have to remember how to implementwas reforms. Changes inn, after poland in 1999 in other countries slightly later, just a few months. Later inw months peaceful times. To westernize western eu Member States after prices in 2008. Now try to imagine implementing very harsh and very challenging and in the same time at the same time defending territorial integrity. The case of ukraine, very open conflict. We have to remember about authorization in georgia as well. Of georgiasn goes on a daily basis. We have to take this into account. It is difficult to maintain public support. To stand by them and support them. Cooperation, i see the will to cooperate both within the eu and nato on those issues. Thank you. Thank you very much for those final words. Thank you for rejoining us. The whole event has been confirming that georgia can be security providers as well as security statesough some member may still need some convincing that membership is a good thing for the alliance as a whole. We have viewers on this event covering all of europe and northern america, what would the final message to our viewers be regarding todays topic . Thank you. At least a couple more remarks about the division of ukraine from the perspective i think that this is the core of the positive agenda that ukraine towards Europe Atlantic integration. Questionvery important in regards to reform. You are asking whether things are well on track. Memoryee collect in our the year of 2019 when the president and the parliament were reelected. Agenda,ected a fresh but still now expecting for ukrainian politicians to smile unanimously and say things are going on track then nothing happens. The reality is totally different. Of course there is a huge informational space and many things are happening at the same time. The hugeot always see reforms and transformations. Aking place the banking reform, the president has adopted the nato Security Strategy [indiscernible] procurement about to adopt the law on the reform of security service. Went are the things that unnoticed basically in our country. Thatis something positive is not very good and nice for the news. I am grateful that partners see it. Another quality of discussion. That theyy grateful confirmed that there is a need to have the dialect. The progress we show and the commitment we show and the personal commitment of the president his personal changes in formal exchanges with the secretarygeneral as regards to eop and other things. This enables us to think more strategically. In terms of the security i think this is something thats is that is now lacking in terms of the broader agenda. We are putting a lot of effort into the new u. S. Administration to be fully formed by january of 2021. Wanting to play in this National Arena will bring more ukrainians to the agenda and bring more inspiration to consider ukraine as the leader and contribute to the Security Transformation of the region. Just to finish, im really happy that those partners who support ukraine see the progress and transformations. Just to name the issues. Do you see me . We do see you. That we arely happy having this discussion right in the middle of the nato reflection process which ourfully will show us how allies see the materialization of the opendoor policy. Looking forward to that end working hard from that. Thank you for this discussion and greetings to our georgian colleagues, we have so much to discuss on a daily basis. Thank you very much for your final words and a touch of optimism. This note, this is the end of our event. I regret for our viewers that there is no more time for questions, but i do congratulate all of you. I had a lot of fun discussing this issue. Need is definitely more for debate around this topic. We will definitely do that. Its not the last event we will organize around this issue. Ourme also thank again we ares here, we were very grateful for your support. Thank you for joining us. Team, to thank my own they have been very instrumental in bringing us together. I do wish everyone a very good evening or a very good afternoon. Thank you and i will see you next time. President elect joe biden will deliver thanksgiving remarks today. He is in wilmington, delaware and it is expected to start at 2 00 p. M. Eastern. You can watch it live on cspan. Tonight, with a Washington Post columnist discusses the impact of the trump presidency. Starts at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, online at cspan. Org, or listen live with the free cspan radio app. Courtday the supreme hears oral arguments in trump v new york, the case is about whether President Trump has authority to exclude undocumented immigrants from the senses apportionment face. Live coverage begins at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. France is dealing with that second wave of the coronavirus pandemic. Recently the president outlined how the country will ease some of its covid19 lockdown restrictions in time for the Christmas Holiday season