Youre welcome to. With that, we stand in recess until on classified documents. This is live coverage on c span. We have mr. Brett from virginia. Mr. Hur, to the gentleman from maryland for five minutes. You, mr. Chairman and mr. Hur, we appreciate you coming in. One prelimary matter, that is the release of the transcript. I have heard complaints from my republican colleagues and releasing the the biden interview this morning. I have to note that i think there are over 90 transcripts that are being held by the majority here in the Judiciary Committee and the Oversight Committee for interviews that we all care about they go all go directly to issues with the impeachment inquiry. Kettle black to be. At that is an understatement. Also, when the Ranking Member requested the majority release the transcripts, determine object did. We can move forward in the spirit of cooperation ansharing information. Mr. Hur, thank you again for the work you did. I dont agree with everything you wrote that that is the nature of the business. I do want to ask about this. You started off with, in the first line executive summary we conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter. I take it that is still your position today . Yes, it is. You noted a little bit below that, for the reasons summarized below we conclude that thevidence establish that biden is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It used to believe that . I do. Even though you object to wo he has been cleared of criminal charges in the investigation . I determined that criminal charges are not warranted. I d of material distinction that you raised in your report beee former President Trump. We have a document here that lays some of that out. You answer some questions on it seemed to be highly relevant in your analysis that President Biden cooperated and i want to walk through a couple of those points. One is that he turned in classified documents to the National Archives and the department of justice upon ques is that fair . That was a factor that we considered. He cooperated with your investigation . Yes. Search of multiple locations including his house . Yes. He set for a voluntary interview . Yes. That was five hours ov two days . Yes. He turned over and allowed investigators to review believed to be his personal property . Correct. With respect to the comparison of former President Trump on page 11, that is still in your executive summary, and i will just read part of this to unlike the evidence from mr. Biden the allegations set forth in the indictment of President Trump prevent serious aggravating facts. Most notably after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, mr. Trump did the opposite. He not only refused to return documents but he also to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. In contrast, mr. Biden turned in information to the department of justice and consented to searches. Set for a voluntary interview and cooperated with this. I see that language. Inspect do you still stand by that . I do, sir. This is your report. You take full responsibility for everything inthe documents . I do. I stand by every word. Okay. I want to ask you a couple of questions. Respect to the surprising one of questions that you got right before we broke about guardianship. It seems to me dramatic stretch of anything that was remotely involved in your report. Does you did you reason a kind of iseding guardianship or anything along those lines . Nothing like that appeared in my report. So, you made the point about him being an elderly man with poor memory but are you saying, did you say anywhere in your report that not only was he he would be unfit for Public Office and to handle his own finances. My report did not include information on those issues. You, for your testimony. The chairman from virginia is recognize. I would just point out that mr. Ivey, he had every transcript. What we dont have is access to the transcripts of all of the witnesses. We only have mr. Biden and we dont have access to the audiotapes. Will the gentleman yield . You are speaking during my time. Thank you, gentleman. Thank you for your story is an impressive what and your achievements are impressive as well. You have been a prosecutor for many years . Yes. I was only a prosecutor for a couple of years but i remember my record in jury trial. Do you remember yours . It would take a while to ink there. Is it above 500 . Yes. I am curious because the evidence that you outlined in your report is pretty significant. When it comes to evidence that after the vice presidencyd reading from the report, mr. Biden willfully retained documents on afghanistan and on classified documents that he stored at unsecured locations in his home. There is evidence that he willfully retained and had a strong motive to keep such classified documents. You outlined what the motive is. Can you tell me, what is the motive for keeping the thanksgiving day memo . One of the moto motives is the issue of whether or not a true surge should be sent to afghanistan in 2009 with a hotly contested and debated issue within the obama administration. And one in which, within vice President Biden had a significant role and he felt strongly about. President biden, he believed that the search was a mistake in one of the record to show that he was right about afghanistan and his critics were wrong. And his judgment was sound when it mattered most. Is that right . That language sounds familiar. That is pretty significant in terms of a motivating factor for retaining docunts. Wouldnt you say . That is a factor that the jury would assess whether or not President Biden had criminal intent. I know that President Biden was working with a ghost rider on the book, correct . Correct. Your investigation concluded that one President Biden began work on his memo■ir. At what time did your investigation conclude . With respect to ■ and while the he went through information nearly 1ed isnt it true that he led a lot of classified act information regarding the actions of use regarding relating to the foreign country. I believe that occurred and it was captured in 2017. I believe that was april. And, Mark Zwonitzer was aware of your appointment as special counsel . Yes. Upon learning of the investigation, Mark Zwonitzer deleted digital recordings of his conversations with mr. Biden . Yes. You asked about this and he admitted that part of his motive was because he was aware there was an investigation . Correct. Did this conduct by Mark Zwonitzer raise suspicions . We did. We considered it to be significant evidence to are would argue that you had significant evidence surrounding the retention of these documents. The storage of these documents and even though there was a bit of a disconnect een what a reasonable jury could conclude, the intent was there and the motive was there for the book. Forexoneration and i would argue that you had enough to move forward. Time has expired. I yield back. Lady from dashes recognize. Thank you special counsel mr. Hur for staying. I think it speaks to the possibility and prominence afforded by this nation that immigrants sit here as special counsel. And i sit here as a member of congress. There is a lot that has been said today and part of the challenge that i have is trying to translate this for i constituents back home. I want tostart with sort of a top line. You were tasked with identifying whether criminal conduct occurred regarding classified documents. Xy and after over one year of investigation, including 150 witness interviews and over 7 million documents revi wrote in the first sentences of the executive summary, we conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter. We would reach the same Conclusion Even if the department of Justice Policy did not against a sitting president. Are those your words . Yes. Lets get into it. Mr. Hur, at any time did the doj leadership or anyone else attempt to no. Do you believe that you were independent and thorough in your report . Yes. Do you think it is true that you received no pressure from attorney general garland . That is correct. Is it true that you had all of the resources that nduct int and to conduct your investigation and complete your report . Yes. Is it true that you recommended that the attorney general declined to charge President Biden . I submitted a report to the attorney general explaining my decision that criminal charges were not warranted. So you said we conclude that the evidence does qnot establis the guilt of mr. Biden beyond reasonable doubt. Is it true that you report ultimately concluded that the evidence did not support a finding beyond a reasonable doubt that President Biden willfully retained ossified material . Yes. Is it true that President Biden cooperated with your investigation . Yes. Is it true that President Biden set with you for an interview. He sat for interviews over two days. Is it true that President Biden allowed the fbi to conduct thorough searches of his home and his beach house . Yes. Is it true that your report found multiple possible as to why the classified documents ended up where they did . As part of our analysis we walked through a number of different. As you said on page 6, in addition to the shortage of evidence, there innocent explanations that we cannot i see that language. Yes. The report reads with one exception, there is no record o for mishandling classified documents from his own administration. The exception is former President Trump. Am i reading that correctly . Yes. Is it correct that your report recommends no charges and that would be the case even if he not a sitting president . Correct. Had today is hour after hour after hour of trying to distract us from the through this report. You yourself have said multiple times today that there was no a 10 to obstruct justice by the president , by the department of justice, by the attorney general. You had all of the resources that you needed to conduct a fair and thorough investigation and report and that what you concluded was in factthe evidence was not sufficient to bring charges against the president for midling documents. Thank you for being here today. I yield back. The gentleman from South Carolina is back. Mr. Hur, why first place . Why did they do it . What we identified during investigation is that at a certain date, members of the presiden s went to the biden center to get a better handle on what kinds of evidence what kind of evidence was that the biden center. Were they looking for documents that were classified . Or was it a broader initial look . My understanding is it was a broader initial look and i am looking at chapter 14 of my report about a visit from march 2021to the biden center. In march 2021 rtment began their investigation into President Trump . I confess, i do not have the date of the beginning of the investigation at hand. I believe it was the same month. One thing that i think it is important for people to understand as President Biden has this information everywhere. Which location was that it at . Was it at the transocean office . Was it at the temporary center in chinatown . Or was it at its Current Location where it sits thin i believe it is described 257, at the biden Center Current and permanent location. So, classified information was there. To say . The initial Transition Office and after the vice presidency and the Pen Biden Center after office and then his permanent office. Then you had the university ofdelaware library. The university of delaware biden center and then you have multiple places at his home . Correct. The ga, upstairs, and the o downstairs. Correct. So that is like nine different places . I have lost count. I comparison, the democrats want to keep comparing, secret service protection, i dont know that there anywhere else. Are they . I am not aware of other locations. Yield back to the gentleman from South Carolina. Thank you chairman. I know i have two minutes left. Mr. Hur, how would you define willful . With respect to the intent of willfulness, a jury has to conclude if somebody knew that their conduct was illegal when the did that. So it is intentional. It is not accidental or involuntary . This is where i disagree with your portion of the report. You have a gentleman that serves 36 years in. I have only been here a year but i understand the importance of handling classified information. He served eight years as Vice President. It came to the attention the classified briefing books had not been returned and even if they were returned some of the content was missing. Same year t secretary raise that nearly 30 of the classified briefing books from the first several months of 2010 were missing. President biden failed to return compartmented information content from a trip that he took to the hamptons. Today you were not able to determine if those documents were recovered . Correct. So, when does willfulness factor in . Is it now in his diminished mental capacity . Or when it was he was serving as senator and Vice President. In jury would be assessing the mental state of President Biden and his intent as to whether or not he had willfulness at the time it was committed. I think everyone can see the transgression of this and the difference between then candidate biden and Vice President happening now. Also the chairman talked about this in his comments. There are many reasons to hold these documents. In fact he disclosed some of this information to his post writer. I think there could have been willfulness. It is 2016 and there have been three candidates to run for president. All three have had allegations of■0 issues surrounding the retention and holding of classified documents and, mr. Hur, only one has been charged and that is mr. Trump. That is why people think this is a two tiered version of justice. The chair recognizes the ack. Gentleman from. I will wait. First of all, what i have observed in this hearing is that one side things youre trying to get President Trump elected and the other side things youre trying to get President Biden elected. I served as prosecutor for 20 years and i know you will take group from both sides. You must be doing a great job during your report and investigation if you have convinced both sides if that you were in the middle. I commend you for your background and i would have loved to have met chief justice rehnquist. What a hero to conservatives and americans and that mustve been a great opportunity. But when both sides attack you, my admonition is welcome to congress. I do have a question that goes along the lines of what mr. Armstrong was asking you earlier. I am confused about willfulness. In your review of willfulness willfulness. President biden knew that he had classified documents. He told, after he left the vice presidency, he told his biographer, his is classified documents are in the basement. He had the mental state that he had classified documents and he knew that his basement is not a secure area so, at that point in time, if he said, i have got to call the archives or secret service or somebody to get these documents taken but i where the willfulness is missing when he had those. Heap is of classified documents and he held them ure area and he did so knowingly. He knew he had unsecured documents. Wheres the willfulness . Well, i with you that the evidence in the form of the audio recorded statement, where the president said his ghost writer found that , that is evidence that any prosecutor would present as significant evidence in a case if this went to trial. Reasonable jurors might well infer that President Biden formed criminal intent aced of what we did in the report was to try to work through exhaustively, you need to asses and the weaknesses of your case. What we tried to do in our report was to walk through potential arguments that would be presented by defense lawyers and to determinw jurors would receive and perceive the evidence including but not limited to evidence relating to the memory gaps of the president that were in various states of cash. How do you overcome the co he says he has classified documents. He knows how he has to treat classified documents has those basement. What is the defense to that . It is a made up recording . It was in his voice . Everyone was wrong . How do you defend that particular fact. I did a lot of tax cases and you had to determine a pattern of conduct and in this case he had documents in a places. Have you overcome those . We walk through a number of evidentiary gaps as well as a number of different defense arguments that the president the first is, arguments of the jury that he said, he just sent all of the classified stuff downstairs but then soon thereafter, he forgot about the documents. He convince the jury that he willfully and he knew that it was illegal to keep the documents again4n. The second argument that we considered is that perhaps these documents never actually were in virginia. Perhaps the documents were there by virtue of that or himself having th. From the time that he was still Vice President all the way through the time of their being discovered. Finally, another theory in the report is that there were two theories of classified documents relating to afghanistan in the delaware garage of biden. Contained intelligence information and the other it would be a more difficult task that information. Perhaps he was referring to the one folder that did not contaif would be difficult for the one that did contain National Defense information. I just laid a lot on you but we do our best to explain that in the report. Thank you. I yield back. At the gentleman yields back. Thank you. There has been a lot of time. I ask you a brief indulgence. Your brief indulgence to ask a question. You dont get another round. If someone yields their time, you dont get to go two rounds. Im not trying to go rounds. Your request is on the record. All of the democrats have spoken. I ask as was stated on page 1 of the executive summary, we conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter and we would reach th same Conclusion Even a policy did not. ] i ask that this be added to the record that mr. Hur stated that biden could not recall when his son died. I asked about this ended incates that there was no mercy given to mr. Biden and no mercy given to him. Objection. So entered. Even though there was not a question, mr. Hur, do you want to respond . No, sir. Mr. Hur, thank you for your time today and we wish the best to you and your family. This concludes todays hearing. Without objection, you may submit additional written questions for witness or additional materials. Without objection, the hearing is adjourned. Jamie dupree posted about an effort to sign a discharge petition which is intend to force the house vote on a Senate Passed a bill for you ukraine, israel, taiwan. It wld require the signature of 218 lawmakers to bypass the resa nbc news quotes Akeem Jeffries who is urging democrats to sign th petition as a statement of perspective that ty way forward is the bipartisan comprehensive National Security bill that was sent over from the senate, saying that it ders an up or down vote. Cspans craig caplan points out that bri fzpatrick of petition on similar legislation that includes Border Security provisions. The Senate Passed its 95 billion aid package last month by a vote of 7029 with 22 republicans voting in favor. Cspans washington journal, our live form involving you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, and public policy. From wasngton and across the country. Wednesday morning, axios tech and policy reporter ashy goal discusses efforts by congress to pass legislation that could force the chinese owners of the social media apps tiktok to sell the platform or face a ban in the u. S. Cspans washington journal, join in the conversation live at 7 00 eastern wednesday morning on cspan, cspan now, or onlin atwednesday on cspan, the house meets at 9 00 eastern tislationd require the video sharing app tiktok to divest from its china own Parent Company within 180 days or face a u. S. Ban. The bill also prohibits Technology Platforms in the u. S. From carrying any applications that are controlled by foreign adversaries of the u. S. On cspan two, a house financial subcommittee examines the proposed role from the Consumer Financial protection bureauo regulate Digital Consumer payment applications. 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