Visited bell labs. Named for alexander or graham bell, inventer of the telephone. The labs were created by at t. Theyre now owned by nokia, a Finnish Telecommunications company. We talked with bell labs president Marcus Weldon at the labs headquarters in new jersey. Host so, Marcus Weldon, where are we . Guest were at bell labs. The esteemed historical institution. But id like to say not just historical, in fact, very present and we like to think or very relevant to the future as well. Its an institution that has invented just about every technology, a system that led to lennox and thats what runs the internet. Your apple phone or your [inaudible] lasers that control the optics that do Long Distance communication, satellite communication, so we invented all of that and won a bunch of prizes for it. But we sort of consider ourselves the foundation of the internet. Host well, its 2017, who owns bell labs . Guest a Company Named nokia. That company you probably all remember from the 3310, remember the little nokia phone, did you ever have one of those . Yes . It was sort of a wedge. Very popular if you lived 20, 30 years ago. It got out of the handset business which it sold to microsoft and then microsoft shut down, but now its the network side of the equation. Theres the network and then theres the handset, and nokia owns the network part of it and sells radio and Optical Networks, the internet if you like, to all the major operators around the world. Still a little bit in the handset business but much more on the network side of things. An interesting company. Host so here its proprietary to nokia . Guest well, thats an interesting question because its inventing for the good of humankind. We think that sounds very noble and maybe unlikely in this day and age but, in fact, when it was set up as a research lab for at t, the monopoly as it was at the time, the rules for bell labs were because it was a monopolyowned innovation engine, it had to make available all the inventions we came up with for the public good. And so royaltyfree licenses to those technologies. And so everyone benefited, intel, Silicon Valley grew on the back of many of those innovations and all the webscale Companies Use them to create their Cloud Platforms and different applications and services. That was done for the public good. Obviously, that was 20, 30 years ago, but, in fact, the mentality remains invent the things that humans need. Some get licensed as patents to this [inaudible] but some are actually just done for the public good. We publish results still quite heavily, and we put them out there where we think the public can benefit from them. Its very much part of our attitude even though, yeah, theres a bit of a commercial outlet through nokia. Host now, back when bell labs was founded in the 1920s, Walter Gifford who was the president of at t at the time said that bell labs could carry on Scientific Research on a scale that is probably not equaled in the world. Is that still true today . I think it is. And thats maybe shocking to people, but bell labs at its peak was about 1300 scientists. It was a time where we changed what counted as being in bell labs to include all the development. At ts Massive Development teams were count as the lab, but the Research Part was only ever about and 00 scientist 1300 scientists. Today were about 1000. And in that 1300, there were a lot of technicians counted. Of course, back in the day you didnt tighten your own bolt or program your own system. You had a technician who assisted you. So i would say were about the same size as weve ever been, and i would argue, of course, that its a bit selfserving just as innovating. Which changes Public Perception more than anything. Host what do you mean . Guest well, i think weve lived through an era recently where everyone obsesses about their phone and maybe about the web services they consume like google, facebook, twitter, etc. , instagram. And they forget what connects those things. If you think about 30, 40 years ago, the only thing that was there was a black phone and another black phone at the other end. There was an awareness that telephony was big and important because you were sort of aware of the network. You knew you had a phone that plugged into the wall, there was a switchboard and it did all sorts 06 clever things sorts of clever things. In the smartphone or cloud era, people thought of the internet as just something that should be there but didnt really value how difficult it is to build that and have massively scalable mobile communications attached to any cloud anywhere, anytime. It seemed like all the value had become detached from the network, and yet its always really been the same. Theres a device, theres a network, theres an application. But somehow the momentum or the pr or the marketing was in your hand and was on the web. And its hard to know exactly how we lost the understanding that the network in between is a massively important thing, but it is, and its harder and harder to scale that and provide the data and the services you expect. But thats what we build, and that hasnt gone away. In fact, we innovate id like to give some numbers. Were Building Networks that have a million times more capacity when they started, and that start was only 30 years ago. A million times more internet capacity than when we started. Its an amazing thing if you think about it. We with talk about billions of search results and we talk about the billions of iphones, but were talking about a scale of we increased a million times up from where we started and not just, you know, added devices here and there. Weve done something remarkable, but people fail to sort of appreciate that now. I dont really know why, to be honest. Maybe were not living in a techie era like we used to be. Of. Host maybe we cant see it . Guest we cant see it. We could see the telephone wire, but i think we were in the era that it was so remarkable that that wire worked, that all the focus was its amazing this wire can transmit a voice. We cannot have an era where that wasnt possible, and now we take it for granted, and i think thats where we are. I think thats going to change, and we can talk about why that is. Frankly, the next generation, socalled industrial internet or the next industrial revolution, its called all those things, its a massive change to how we think about the network and how cloud and devices all come together in the network. Host so is, well, Marcus Weldon, is the cloud era a revolutionary era . Guest it is in a way, but if we look at it from an economic perspective, which bell labs [inaudible] understanding human need, you have to think about how could it change the fabric of economies and society, not just the personal sort of consumer level. So economically robert [inaudible] wrote this book called the rise and fall of american growth, and actually points out the more physical networks that were built, rail and road, gave rise to massive, increasing productivity and gdp. The internet age has resulted in a slowdown in productivity, and economists agonize over this. The general consensus is we moved information around, we offshored, we outsourced, but we didnt actually change anything for the good. And so cloud as being part of that, you would argue, perhaps hasnt yet changed anything for the good. At least not in economic terms. Maybe theres a sense that economists have called wellbeing. You feel a little bit better, but it hasnt manifestly improved your existence. You might be just a little more connected. For every feel, you feel overwhelmed by the deluge of information thats coming at you. Its a bit of a neutral reaction to whether weve changed the world in the internet age, but Going Forward we believe it does change as we actually automate things for you. The problem we have is weve presented you with a ton of data but not necessarily knowledge to think better. And so in the next era we will actually connect everything your environment, you, infrastructure, buildings, bridges, cities so we can actually see whats going on and then automate that. Think of your house will be, you know, the jetsons like automatically clean, your energy will be automatically managed for you, your car automatically driven or temperature you. All of that driven for you. All of that requires a massive effort. Finally, i think, cloud will come of age, the network will become valued again, and the devices will be everywhere on you, in you, your car, infrastructure. So its a big change coming. And i think thats when well see this increase in productivity. Host so when we talk about the internet anymore, were not just talking about the worldwide web, are we . Guest were not. Its a very good question. Worldwide web allowed machines to talk to each other, of course, and it was really how systems could interact in a very relatively simple way using Domain Name Service ises and urls and things like that. Now were talking about machines talking to machines and machines talking to software platforms, and thats a much larger thing because it doesnt all go through urls and and the worldwide web, its just an ip network now, and thats really the worldwide web is the web page part of the web, but the rest is ip networks that are just moving packets around in interesting ways and running maybe even a. I. Systems so theres no human involved, theres no web page involved. Its actually data systems that are moving, optimizing and understanding the information and then producing your outcome. So that may not involve of the www part at all, it may just be a machine signaling an a. I. System, understanding what the machine is saying and then a robot performing the outcome, and there was no www in that. Host so does that increase efficiency . This, again, is not something terribly sexy. Of we cant see it, we cant touch it, we cant put an app on it. Guest its a good question, isnt it . I think the way i like to think of it is if your life if i could pitch it to you the following way, that all the mundane tasks in your life would be taken care of for you. Youre already smiling. [laughter] it sounds fantastic. And as a result, youd have more time to spend on cognitive, valuecreating things, the ammunition youve always had to write the Great American novel, screenplay, poetry, whatever it is, make a movie. Those things youll have more time for, because im going to eliminate all the mundane tasks because machines will help you with those. Okay, that sounds good. And hopefully youll see the set of tasks that are done for you and the time you have to do more creative, humanistic things that make you feel more valuable. And that youll appreciate is because youre always connected over this infrastructure. So it will remain invisible to you because in some ways it is all wireless. Theres no wires youre dragging around with your roomba or your robotic system. But youll perceive it as having value because its changed your life. Humans are capable of understanding theres three ingredients in that, there is the robot, the america or the network and those three things have equal value. Host so among your thousand scientists here, do you have researchers, do you have engineers, do you have the technicians, the whole mix, or is it purely Scientific Research . Guest its a very good question. Thats one of the other misconceptions about bell labs, that we just do science for sciences sake. The reason people believe that is because weve won so many prizes. Weve won eight nobel prizes for work directly done here. If you count all the people who worked here on part of, for part of their career, weve probably won 30 or 40 sort of virtual nobel prizes because it was a massive throughput of very, very small people. But they were always focusing on solving a real problem. So to give you an example, one of the what you might consider more out there nobel prizes was for discover ising the socalled big bang radiation. You think, what on earth was bell labs doing looking for the origin of the universe . We werent. We were actually trying to do Radio Communications between new jersey and maine, the earliest Radio Communications, and there were no satellites at the time. All we had was a mylar balloon that was 10 meters in diameter, floated it up into the atmosphere, bounced radio waves off it between maine and new jersey. But you can imagine, that doesnt result in a strong signal. We hadnt even invented amplifiers at that point. So the noise that comes from the atmosphere mattered. So we started trying to investigation how could we get rid of that noise, and we found out we couldnt. We discovered that micro background radiation, all we were tryinged to do was bounce a signal off a balloon. Weve always been going after a specific problem, new silicone that was a transistor, new memory device led to the ccd camera which you have in your smartphone allows you to take pictures digitally, because it was a hard problem and because we went all in, we ended up winning a nobel prize. Weve never done pure Scientific Research. Its always what i would call Disruptive Research but directed towards a real problem in communications. And we go all in and tend to win prizes as a result. Yes, to answer your question, were still like that. We go after big human problems. We think ten years out. We try to find solutions that are ten times better than anything available today, and we focus our best and brightest on solving those problems as fast as possible, and it is physicists, mathematicians, engineers, chemical engineering, Electrical Engineering as well as the more artistically inclined person who provides design, physical design or even now artists to help us think about is there something we can do thats more than just communicating words, can we communicate sentiment. Its an interesting collective of unlike minds working collaboratively together to invent the future. Thats how it is. And i think thats how its always been. Host in my mind im seeing lab coats, laboratories, test tubes. Guest there are less test tubes now, but there are lab coats, there are big quantum computing labs which are full of liquid helium containers so we can do novel quantum computing type things. Yes, there are big laser structures and fiber, there are wireless antenna arrays. So, yes, you will find owl that. I all that. I think the lab coat wearing is no not what it should be, meaning i dont think were always protecting our clothes appropriately, and maybe goggle wearing isnt up to osha specs, but, yeah, you would find lab coats and goggles running around the place and big, massive labs full of very expensive looking equipment. Host so, dr. Weldon, what are some of the things that bell labs is focusing in on now and looking at ten years from now . Guest so i think the thing that fascinates us at the moment is the idea that were bringing all these machines online. Very popular phrase, the internet of things. It actually is a bit meaningless. Most people think it means your fitbit or smart want, but it means adding sensors to everything. You, yes. Biological senses that measure your physiology and let you know whether youre well at every moment of time. But the room will sense you and be able to pick up your movement and vitality, maybe even measure your heart rate. Equally, we will measure the infrastructure which means ill be able to see the position of every shipping object, every vehicle, every plane, every train. And the reason for that is to allow massive degree of automation. So we think of it as an industrial or technological revolution and there havent been many, technological revolution means you end vent a technology, you network it, and it changes a society and man kind. We think were about to enter that era, and the change is youll be able to remove mundane tasks, live a more complete life creating more things, because machines will take over the dull and the drab and the ordinary. To i think thats a very interesting reality. What we have to do to make that happen, we have to work on new cloud technologies, new computing technologies, new devices that sense you in deep physiological ways meaning your whole biochemistry is measured at all points in time. The environment has to be able to see you and sense you, maybe infrared, ultraviolet, acoustically, we have to build networks that make all that information flow from one place to the cloud and back. We have to build a. I. Systems that make sense of it all because if i send all that day to you, youre going to say i dont know what to do with that. That we consider our purview all the way from a sensor on you to a cloud system that runs an a. I. Agent that helps you perform and live your life more efficiently. So thats sort of a massive change. And, yes, therell be augmented reality, Virtual Reality will be part as well so youll be able to see things a bit like in a star trek way. I always use the example of the holodeck in star trek, walk into rooms and theyll become what you want them to be. Youll be sensed in every environment. That sensory input will be able to be transferred between people, so youll be able to understand how other people are feeling across the Digital Network. Your doctor will be able to understand your feeling, your work your employer will be able to understand whether youre in a risky position or perhaps even suffer ising on the job. So suffering on the job. So everything will be sort of understood and known not in a creepy big brother way but, rather, a con chex chullize contextualized, personalizedded way. Host lets go back to the creepy, big brother [laughter] a lot of that sounded like guest yeah, until i said its not creepy, big brother. Host yes. Guest i think thats the trick, the trick is so that the users in control of the information. You only advertise, you only make available lets take the example of we work on technologies that detect your biochemistry. You would only be willing to share that data with your doctor and maybe friends and family if theyre acting as your custodian or your caretaker. And thats where making that available is clearly the right thing to do because ill pose to you the way its done today. You go to a doctor once a year, maybe, if your spouse botherrings you to do that. Thats boths you to do that. Bothers you to do that. The doctor asks you, how are you feeling . You make up your response. Even if you dont make it up, its inaccurate. Its a reflection of how youre feeling on that particular day, and you present no data to them. They take a set of measurements and hope that at one moment in time they can diagnose you completely based on a set of measurements, maybe blood and heart rate and Blood Pressure. Its an impossibly foolish endeavor, if you think about it. If you said based on no data and incorrect presentation of the information im going to diagnose you, youd consider it witchcraft. The right way is, of course, to continuously collect all the data so i have a complete image of your last year, i run it through some intelligence systems, they look for patterns that you see is, patterns perhaps a human cant, but then advise the doctor, and this is what they found. And when you walk into the office maybe you dont even walk in, its across the Digital Network youve already figured out what your issue is, and its well informed based on a complete data set, and you think thats for testing. It sends you an alert, and if you modify your behavior or your diet, you wont ever have to come and see me. Thats how health care should be done. And think of that applied to anything, any task youre performing. It should sort of be optimized, more fully understood when youre about to hurt yourself, when youre in a dangerous environment and have feedback to you before damage is done, before the unfortunate circumstance occurs. And so thats sort of why its not creepy big brother, its only the information that you want to be shared shared with only those who should know it. And we do a massive segmentation so not all day goes everywhere. If you think about it today, the web Scale Companies get all your data. The device Companies Get everything you do on your device. The ones whose Search Engine you use get everything you do on that Search Engine. The ones you buy from get everything you buy. Thats much more scary big brother than a world where the data is actually contextualized and sent to the person who can help you and not to someone whos aggregating all your data to sell it for advertising purposes. So is i think were moving away from scary big brother much more to i dont know if we call it friendly little brother, friendly personal assistant might be the way, but thats the world were moving towards, and i think its much better than we currently live in. Host moving towards, at what point are we going to get there . Guest ooh, now were crystal ball gazing, arent we . Id say 2020 youll start seeing clear signs of this. There will be things that are automated that you can already begin to see, trucks driving large platoons on highways that are relatively autonomous. Thats a form of automation. Therell be some home tasks that are automatically managed for you. Therell probably be the beginnings of medical management where youll be wearing some sophisticated, whether its Glucose Monitoring or high Blood Pressure monitoring twices that actually are beginning to provide advice to you instead of automate your health care. And by 2020 i think thatll be true. By 2030 itll be in full swing, i can say. We predicted that this productivity growth where we change everything and everything becomes automated, right about 2030 we think thats where youll be living that existence. So not all that far off. Certainly before you and i have left this plane, well be living a relatively enhanced life, i think, and hopefully much more satisfied life where we empathize more because we understand each other. Experts help us with every task, and robots help us with ones they can, automatic sort of robotic things. Theres an interesting paradox k because people worry about the scary a. I. Part of it, but theres Something Else which is that machines are good at things that humans are poor at, and humans are good at things that machines are poor at. And if you think about what are those things, machines are very good at repetitive tasks. Humans think they are, be i actually go off on flights of fancy is all the time. I was meant to answer this question a certain way, so is, in fact, humans deviate if you think about your driving. Do you drive exactly the same way . No, a little bit left, a little bit right in the lane, sometimes you take a different route, sometimes youre fast, were slow, were deviant creatures. Machines will take over repetition, and we will be more in the space of things that are creative and if you want to take leaps of faith or flights of fancy or intuition, well be doing those marginal things that make us feel special, that make us feel alive. Thats where well be living, nor that space with Something Else taking care of the mundane. Thats where i want to be anyway ten years from now. Host well, here at bell labs is there an Artificial Intelligence department, or is a. I. Part of everything you do anymore in. Guest thats a great question again. Weve actually started organizing. It was everywhere. A. I. , ill explain, we invented many of the current techniques in a. I. Because bell labs invented everything. Not quite true, but we invented something we call Neural Networks or did pioneering work. The head of facebooks a. I. Team did his plenary work at bell labs. And things he used to do, Voice Recognition so when youre talking to alexa, cover tan that or siri, its all through those Neural Networks. We invented them here. Why were we working on them . The task then, optical character recognition was the big task, handwriting. And it was handwriting to recognize phone numbers. When people wrote down phone numbers, you wanted to be able to automatically scan that and maybe auto dial. And, of course, the post office was interested in handwriting on letters so they could deliver the mail. Turns out you needed a neuronetwork to do that, and you still do. But thats why we were working opposite. And now we continue working in that area. We didnt do quite as much for a period of time, now were back in, but it is everywhere in the labs where were looking at Neural Networks, Data Sciences we call it which is basically statistics and analytics but also mathematical models of things. Thats the other way you can have an intelligent system, you can build a model in physics or engineering. So we work in all those areas across everything we do, but we have started aggregating together to probably bring it more to the fore. Then, you know, when you disperse everything, not everyones learning about each others work, so we started organizing a bit more, and theres something we call the shannon initiative. Host Claude Shannon. Who was Claude Shannon . Guest one of our bell labs gods who came up he didnt win a nobel prize because there wasnt one in information theory. He possibly could have won in mathematics, but the mathematicians didnt think information theory was serious math because the formula was so simple. What it is, is he computed for any connection over any interface whether its a fiber or piece of copper or over the air, if i tell you or someone tells you how much bandwidth you have bandwidth means spectrum he will tell you how many bits of information you can send maximum. So think of that as being like one of the Ten Commandments of technology that he didnt need to know anything about anything except just tell me how much spectrum, what the medium is im communicating over, and i can tell you how much information forever. Not just at this point in time, forever. The maximum you could ever send. Because it was based on mathematical and physical principles. And its proven correct. No one has ever violated shannons law about how much information you can send over a certain amount of spectrum. But the formula was so simple, everyone said its not serious mathematics. The real genius is e equals mc squared, etc. That was Claude Shannon. We continue to honor him today because its still true that every wireless and Optical Network has to abide by shannons law. So with a. I. We decided one of the questions is how can you prove the information content of an a. I. System, is it right, is it wrong . How right is it . You think about intelligence systems, can you prove if its right or wrong. Thats if its shannonlike in its quest, whats the fundamental truth or information value of an a. I. System . So we called it the shannon human augmentation initiative which is where all the researchers come together to discuss solutions. But they remain dispersed throughout our labs, they just come together to exchange ideas. Host is there an advantage to being here in new jersey rather than in Silicon Valley . Guest well, salaries are a bit lower. I dont know whether thats an advantage or disadvantage. But, no, i actually think i always like to say we bell labs founded Silicon Valley, and that seems to be a bit of a bold claim. Maybe im bragging too much. But it was founded by one of the inventors of the transistor. Were not sure that Silicon Valley had a big Tech Innovation as people think. And they search out rhythms and social networking algorithms, but not really new technology if you think of it in the trance s trance tran sistory units. That big Tech Innovation has never been done in Silicon Valley as other locations and i think that new jersey in the boston, new york, new jersey corridor is still a hotbed of deep Tech Innovation. Its a good place to be. When its beautiful the six months, except january, februar february, sometime the culture is a huge magnet for scientists to come and the culture weve created here and part and parcel of being in new jersey, i think, a site of great innovation. Marcus weldon, youve got a degree from harvard and youre in nokia. Youve got to describe this in helsinki, if you describe it, arent they going to want to monetize it. Guest its another great question, the other way to look at this, i like to think about, how do we survive when many of the other industrial apps like yours suffered. And things like the park, hp labs, big deal. Ibm, very large and we survived roughly at the same time. And i think the argument i make is because every year we deliver tremendous value to the company that that owns us, so we deliver value and its creating billions in revenue in i mentioned a million times for capacity. If youre using a dsl connection, which most people are, theyre not using it out way to the home. If theyre using that connection, thats an innovation from bell labs and weve increased the copper wire in 20 years. It used to be a phone line and now thats broadband access. If youre using an lt Network Today thats a bell labs innovation, that the company uses. And Optical Networks, if youre communicating with a data center, youre using a bell labs invention. Thats the main thing that we do, we invent things for the future of the company. In that connection, lets call it less than 1 of the revenue of the company is bell labs, theres a lot of bang for the buck and i think the, helsinki, quickly understood that. They had a large team nokia research, and about the same number of people, actually in bell labs focused on that. The and they understand the value of that in inventing the future of that business and thats gone away, but they understand the value of inventing the scaleable Cloud Networks that we talked about earlier. I actually havent found much of a difficulty explaining value and, yeah, for years they checked in, what have you done for me lately . Thats a normal question. And its one of the great things about bell, a great set of parents, handed off to another set of parents, grandparents or greatgrandparents or so on and its been a great set of parents and i think we have a very strong future under nokia. Do i use a nokia product regularly . You will soon, probably. There are two ways, one, if you ever communicate in the u. S. Over a wireless network, its a nokia product. You dont see it its called at t, verizon, sprint, tmobile, we built the network and thats our technology. And that was nokia, and we should have had a campaign. Thats the invisible part, but increasingly we now license some of our smart phone design to a Company Called at t global and the nokia is a popular phone in europe beginning to come in the u. S. A samsung equivalent, doing quite well, Innovative New futures and we have a company thats rebranded to nokia health, its things you wear, Blood Pressure monitor and smart watch, and thats rebranded, too, so youll start seeing that front ap center as part of your life Going Forward. So, yeah, i think well be more visible again to you, never forget the invisible part, the magic that makes it work. Host final question, Marcus Weldon, one of the themes or one of the ideas about bell labs has always been it might some day work. Is that still one of the philosophies . Oh, anything we work on as a technology. Host yeah, might some day. Guest i absolutely believe the way we think about problems is, we look for the limits in terms of current knowledge. When we find the limits, we get excited because thats where they like to be, they like to be in the limits of things and it has to be a real problem. Lets say you want 100 times more wireless capacity and you want vrar headset on all the time and by logically sensed and all of that data sent into the cloud. Maybe thats low latency of the speed, and go back and forth for the data. And thats a big challenge and i might need that in ten years, but to do 100 times more capacity or 100 times lower latency in ten years, thats a challenge. And we go after that, what do we have to fix. We find out if theres a limit in physics, a limit at the speed of light that comes na play, ai systems, can we prove theyre correct or incorrect if theyre into your life. All of that gets us excited. We do the big things, i think, is where we play and this is an era where big things are going to change and big things matter. So i think we feel pretty excited about the future. Marcus weldon, is the president of the nokia bell labs. Hes also the chief Technology Officer for that company and hes been our guest. Guest thanks very much, its been a pleasure chatting. If youd like to see more of cspans communicators program, go to cspan. Org and look under the series link on the home page. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979 cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. This week in congress, the house returns today for the first legislative business of the second session of the 115th congress. This weeks agenda includes a resolution tuesday, quote, supporting rights of the people of iran to free expression, and condemning the Iranian Regime for its crackdown on legitimate protests, end quote. Members will also consider legislation thursday to reauthorize provisions of the foreign Intelligence Surveillance act. That are set to expire on january 19th, the same day current government funding runs out. The senate also returns today at 3 p. M. Eastern. Theyll consider the nomination of William Campbell to be a u. S. District judge for the middle district of tennessee. With a vote to advance his nomination at 5 30 eastern. For the rest of the week, the senate will take up other judicial nominations for u. S. District courts in tennessee, georgia and texas. As always, you can follow the house live on cspan and the senate live here on cspan2. The cspan bus continues its 50 capitals tour this month, with stops in raleigh, columbia, atlanta, and montgomery. On each visit well speak with state officials during our live washington journal program, follow the tour and join us on tuesday, january 16th at 9 30 a. M. Eastern for our stop in raleigh north North Carolina, when our guest is North Carolina attorney general josh stein. Next, a look at the scale and potential implications of ongoing protests in iran. This discussion was hosted by the Washington Institute for middle east policy. Its about an hour and a half