Behindthescenes a social media on twitter, instagram and facebook. Guys, we are here, chatter on books, r 34th episode which is stunning and we are in an undisclosed location which makes me unhappy because weve been in an undisclosed location for a few weeks and were at east city bookshop which is 645 pennsylvania avenue southeast. Im going to keeprepeating the address, 645 pennsylvania avenue southeast because it this is bricks and mortar and we want people to come to bookstores like east city bookshop so thank you for having us. David alldredge, kornheiser, Michael Kornheiser, the most important person in the room and were thrilled to have everybody from cspan here, god bless you all for being here in the close members of my family, thank you for being here. We have a good show and asi realized, this is our last one for a few weeks because were going to take a few weeks off and retool and take a breath. I like the show and i start piling a lot into it so at some point in one night might need to waive me and go slow down but weve got great things on tap. We have random thoughts from me, a terrific literary birthday which we want to discuss. Going to talk to laurie about the shop and what its like running a local independent bookstore. Going to talk about freshman reading, if youre a freshman you should be putting the phone down and the ipad down and reading the book because you have required reading, will kick that around and some very dicey looks. We have is our featured authordavid epstein is blowing minds everywhere amongst the ansi type a people and there are a lot of them in the dmv with his book range. Why generalists triumph in a specialized world. Its a great book, its very counterintuitive but we also have to talk about calvert woodley, featured wine of the evening. Jeannie and david, im going to count on you for this one. I was down at our sponsor, 433 connecticut avenue, people i know are regular patrons there and it really is a fabulous place. Its a dc institution, gloria, youve probably been there. Its the best staff, the greatest election and they gave us today a lovely chardonnay, solving on blanche fromcalifornia, what do you think . 2017. I dont want to sound like a wine person. Thats why we have michael here because hes not a wine person. It was not like a new zealand solving on blanche, it was much milder. Its supposed to have a long finish, im not sure what that means and will hold up well in the present conditions as we have today in yournations capital. And the cheese is a lovely french goats cheese. Abraham launches arena, the internationally famous, you like the cheese, merry . Michaels been absorbingit. Every time we have a cheese, he always looks at me area you can taste the terroir. Its supposed to have a searches note, ive never heard of these is having a citrus note but you get five dollars off which is spectacular, i myself went as a customer not too long ago and im in the checkout line and i forgot to say chatter five which you get five dollars off which is not insignificant. Random thoughts for today, to bounce off all you guys. You can jump in anytimelaurie but youre going to have your own segment as well. Thank you notes. Mike crawley, assistant professor, we had him on a couple weeks ago. Avila sky, wonderful selection of books called any other place, it was one of our most surprising offers and you should happen here sometime. Born in appalachia, as this interesting collection of short stories called any other place. He wrote to thank you notes, one to the group and one to me and im going to read the note and ask questions about thank you notes. This is to the whole gang, names everybody. Thanks for making it so easy to be on the show. Iwas nervous because youre such warm inviting people. I hope to see you soon, all the best, and he sent one to me which is personal so i wont read that one. Cannot interrupt . Im the point of contact for this guest. The reason he was booked is because of you. I received a thank you text which has a different purpose and place and thank you note and im a little surprised i did not receive a personalthank you notes on that lovely stationary. Hementions your name but thats it. My name is his name. I think this is a gender thing. Michael, when is the last time one of you wrote and or receive a handwritten note in the mail to mark. Its not fair for me. Tori, i think thats personally bad for her. I write thank you notes that make you weak. No, no. Between weddings, birth announcements, holiday cards, i write my fair share. Liz is much better andthat tradition in her family. Her mother works at a school where in her mine work you did write handwritten notes went out with every mailing. Her father writes these beautiful missives that go out as well, Great Holiday cards but i think its different to get handwritten notes. Im going to walk around with mike hawleys notes for weeks. I wrote you a note about two weeks ago. I took some friends to lunch who had been incredibly supportive of my recent art show and they wrote me thank you notes. I mean, im an interesting demographic for this but i would say they are important to me to write and to receive. I write thank you notes that make you sleep. Handwritten with a stamp . Absolutely as i told you many times, ive kept every letter been written to me since i was 12 and i will continue to dothat. Those will be interesting boxes to unpack when youre dead and gone. Ive been handwriting things because i think theres an intimacy writing that there isnt in anything else which is why historians, being a history major it troubles me that we dont write letters anymore. Thats how you really told people who you were and what you felt. Increasingly people in government dont write anything down and dont want anything left to be analyzed, to be pulled apart area and lauren, thank you notes . You might not be surprised to know that we do get a lot of thank you notes from authors on paper. Not just emails, very nice notes. I write a lot of thank you notes in my head that are very [laughter] i have a lot of plans and beautiful stationary that im going to write it out on and after time goes by ithink i need to send an email or i wont send it at all. I have a lot of plans inmy head when i win the lottery to. I did try to do it and my mother would be ashamed. The authors would like to be on the show, mike hawley can come back anytime,these delightful. Whatis your standard signature on a thank you notes . It depends, if its someone with whom im close, if its not, its all the best and i thought of this when i got mikes notes in the mail the other day, im going to frame and put on my wall, i thought okay, the day after shows i send an email to the authors and sometimes you all say david, really, talking too much again. I often send an email to the authors thank you notes and following up and sharing the link , i put them up. I would say an email or a text is better than nothing. I would say because we are at peace city bookshop at 645 pennsylvania avenue which i will repeat many times, there are lovely notecards in the store. That is part of my aspiration, we have so many beautiful cards that i want to use them all. Theyre from a family drawer at home. Thats done, random thank you notes are done. Last week we talked about Megan Rapinoe and what the title of her book would be, shes signed a deal with penguin and shes also doing a kids book, let me see if i can find it. Its coming out, thatsreally fast. I moved it up. Had gone to Great Lengths to say this isnt just about soccer, this is about being we want to be, saying what you want to say and all these things with no surprise, god bless her, i hope she gets a huge advance. We answer the question last week does she do a book, what will it be called . We had great titles. When does she run foroffice, michael . Shes already on the four year cycle so lets just plus for her right now, she should be finished with the book tour by then. It depends. You have to realize your personality comes through in different ways. For her, the book tour might fill this need for service and if you see the way shes responded to the media, to the microphone, she has something to say. That doesnt mean she necessarily needs to go out and serve inpublic office, this might beenough. This year my view of other athletes in any way . Shes sweet generous, she is oneofakind. I shouldnt say i would be surprised, i dont know that she necessarily automatically runs for office for the simple fact that her partner is sue bird who is an amazing athlete in her own right and all hall of famer in her own right but is not someone who likes to live in the public eye. And is very reluctant sometimes to live in the public eye. But having said that, shes been in the public eye so as megan for a very long time so circumstance, time, both their lives. I dont know them personally so i cant speak to where they are in their lives and this is something that calls to them. I increasingly think the only ones that can get into that level of the public eye are those who are used to it, who can handle the scrutiny and the pressure and the intensity and just dont care. Shell get 150 Million People who say nice things and 125 million who say mean things and she doesnt care. She has athick skin and thats what ittakes. We would like to have her on the show , when she comes out, shes going to go to mark when shes on the show we can ask her. Hopefully they have cspan where she lives. This is my weekly appeal to sean doolittle, he is a big supporter of local independent bookstores,visit his local. Have an off day at the end of the week. Im just going to throw this out there, when we first thought of this month ago, send an email off to somebody and they fire right back. They say great, he loves it, will have him on and they started throwing updates for when he would be in town and then i dont want to be cynical about the time the next started to take this spring, they started to backpedal on that offer but you still want him. Theres a busy schedule off the field as well and we know he was at a local bookstore in Cleveland Park this past weekend doing a reading as well. This is closer to next stadium. As i told you, theres an open date at the end of august. There might be a special popup of chatter on books. Last thing and this might be my favorite, today would be any show mussolinis birthday. 1883, not a name. The crowd is going what is he talkingabout mussolini . The guy from cspan is on the phone going get me out of here. 1883. Knew he wrote a novel . Anybody . Lori, youre the pro. Cowrote a novel called the cardinals mistress and i tried hard to find the name of his coauthor, who it was. Find anything and i thought because this book was so bad, the coauthor was probably killed but it was shockingly very anticlerical. And it was in serial form. It came out in serial form. Apparently it was dreadful, no surprise there and it finally got hold off the shelves or whatever circulation it was in because he reached some truce with the vatican i have some excerpts here. It was like a bodice ripper kind of a novel. He tried to find absolution by the next chapter. Im going to give this to michael because michael has the nicest voice. Cd2 highlighted sections at the bottom left and mark this is our reading by Michael Kornheiser of Benito Mussolinis novel. What kind of voice would you like for this . Did you have a racy italian bodice ripper voice. I actually did take italian. I will build you a secret, altered the depth of my conscience. I will be yourslave. Let me pause for one second. You really want me to read this . Youre already in. I remember this. Strike me, despise me, the me, grant me the revelation of yourself, rented i may you, granted i may lose myself with you andthe supreme illusion. You do not listen to me. Shameless courses on harlot. Well, i shall come to get you in the same castle, i shall let the common brutes of the marketplace satiate their idol lost on your cynical body. You shall be the mockery of the unreasoning mob. Your corpse will not have the rights of christian burial. You will be cast into the field, turning the page. Or you could stop. Nosurprise. Evidently it was dreadful but shockingly , people went. You know, on good reads where there are 9 million reviewsof every books , theres no review. Theres no review on good reads, there cant be. There are reviews on goodreads of Benito Mussolinis book so happy birthday mussolini. I am troubled wishing when he tell mussolini a happy birthday. Hitler was a failed visual artist. Though theres some kind of frustration. Someone close to us, to our family, we believe if the Vienna School of arts had accepted hitler, but they rejected him. Its a theory. David, last thing, happened today and youre the only one i know who would notice. In 1991 Yankee Stadium fans through cups and blowupdolls at they can say go. Why would they have done that . Because he was close a canseco. What about the blowup dolls part . If its too racy im assuming it had something to do with performanceenhancing material that he may or may not have been taking that we dont know for sureand we cant say for sure because to do that would be actionable. Lets go with someone we knew who had said that. Moving on. All right, now were going to shift to one of the many reasons were here at east city bookshop 6 45 pennsylvania avenue southeast. David will learn if hes nice to us, out of the title of his book a lot but were here with the owner of the store and you and i visited a couple of times, its a fabulous place. People should come here. Theres enough in the cranny and a book for everybody. You seem like a smart, intelligent, welleducated person. Whatever possessedyou in the amazon age to open a bookstore in 2016 . I was ready for that but the thing that really pushed me to finally do it was annoyance at the fact that i had to drive all the way across town or across the river to virginia just to buy a book. It used to be drovers. That was our Neighborhood Store and we spent a lot of time there everybody in the neighborhood went there. They were here for decades and decades and they closed in 2009 was kind of a low point or independent bookstores because you had finally the Big Box Stores that amazon had come on very strong and started with books. My kids never realized that but they started books so that was kind of rough time but i thought well, somebody will open a bookstore in this neighborhood because at that point, every bookstore and closed in town except there was still a barnes andnoble downtown. Politics and prose. Wasnt borders around . They closed in 2011 so they were there downtown as well but there was nothing. We had great used bookstores but nothing in southeast, northeast. Southwest. The only bookstores left were in northwest so. Those people by the way when they saw the buggy whip manufacturers going out of business went okay, thats not a business to be in. But you see every other one closing down but you go me, why you . It was both annoyance and having to drive across town to a bookstore and thinking that my neighborhood has a lot of readers, i knew this as a fact and i also i think that breakdowns and neighborhoods have good bookstores. And myneighborhood should have one. Im waiting for someone to open it. And of course, before i got this idea and i couldnt let go of it, so my kids are getting older. Im looking at what am i going to do next, i want to keep doing what im doing, do Something Different mark i couldnt let go of this idea so i said im going to do all the research i can do, learn everything about it because ive never done anything in the Book Business before this and i thought this will talk me out of it. This will be the cold water. I went to bookstore school which is, you dont call it that. Is for your school . Did you do it online mark. I actually went to florida to Amelia Island and it is a couple and its sort of recommended by the american booksellers association. I learned all about this and literally evil where there from all over the country who were either thinking about or had sort of started down the road to or just want to learn more about how to open a bookstore though 40 hours, 80 hours a day for five days, we learned a crash course in pointofsale systems and the terrible margins in bookselling and all the things you need to know. But what i took away from that was oh, if itll work anyplace, itll work in my neighborhood and then i couldnt let it goand then i have to say we opened in april, and april 2016. And the first day, there literally was this huge line all day long and i thought okay, now go down, you can catch a breath and figure out what were doing. And it never really slowed down. Its great. Its grown so much faster than i had projected. So its all good. 20 years ago if you walked into a bookstore there would be shelves and there be books. I need to ask some person behind a desk about a book. Now you come in and theres a lot going on. Theres always something going on so talk about the kinds of events you have going on and i wantto do this as respectfully as possible, the 13 book clubs you host here. We have 13 instore book clubs, those are just funds sponsored by our store. We also have a couple that are private book clubs that meet in our lounge area. Talk about why the private book clubs come to meeting you your area. They come here because its not their space, theycan come here and i dont have to clean up their house. And they like to be around books. And they need a mediator. Sometimes they need a mediator, thats my theory about why the instore book clubs work so well because often clubs are a bunch of friends, people have known each other for a long time. Their friends for a while and they start to turn on one another. They have issues with power struggles and things like that, whos going to choose the books and i think that here because we provide someone who can facilitate discussion and the book using and is a neutral space and nobody has to clean up or cook, we encourage everyone to bring wine or snacks and beer but nobody has to be the host. And that had people tell me that they also, they like the instore book clubs because they truly meet people who are just there to talk about the books so people, like i had, we have a customer who works for our councilmember and she said no one in book club knows that i work for a councilmember and i love it. I love that this is a safe place for people. It is and you heard people talk about the third space and its that kind of in between space that is not a theater, is not a private home its sort of a public space where public things happen you can also have a little bit of ownership and discuss and kids, on their way home from school and if there, if there little short we have a little change that we help them cover their books or call their mom or something so it fills a space for people. Who do you have comingup, what authors do you have coming up . I always completely freeze and i cant remember a single thing. Theres a great poster right over there. Mary lane smith, thats coming in the middle of august. We have abby gimenez coming up this weekend and thats a romance author that has a lot of interest. Shes normal so we need a. We will see. Lets hope shes not. And we have probably an average of at least two author events every week and sometimes other events like this so theyre all online. We have bookmarks around the store that have them all listed out and it honestly times i cant even think of whats coming up theres so many things. Thats a good problem where having. And now were looking ahead to march. You and i were talkingand i really believe this , the amazons, facebook, the googles of the world have created an environment in which if you didnt wantto have any Human Interaction, you dont have to. And i dont see any advantage to that but increasingly one of the things where sensing and the reason places are successful is people are now seeking Human Interactions and they want to hold things and such things and interact with real people as living people and i think hopefully its a longterm and very profitable business but its a great Public Service, and absolutely great Public Service were going to do another segment and i want you to stay withus because youre going to wave a magic wand. If youre reading, tomorrow, were almost in august and if youre a freshman you should be putting down the phone, putting downbinging, something on netflix. And thinking about your freshman reading and i am fascinated by the depth and breadth and diversity of what men are supposed to be reading in College Campuses so ill throw a few of these out here and you guys yell out, university of oregon and this one i looked up because i had never heard ofit. Under the feet of jesus by Helena Montes commented novel about immigrant workers and we seem to have a lot of authors, their novels are fiction but its based on a lot of reality and real practical influences on peoples lives so you think about immigrant workers, people think california but think in oregon, there was a huge immigrant problem in that part of the world so i understand why they picked that one. I get that. Harvard, of course they picked educated by terra westover. Have you had her here . Its an amazing story. Its an amazing story, id put it in the category of, is it wild . Cheryl strayed. Where they stuck to the facts of what they were going through, whether it was hiking the Pacific Coast trail or terra doing what she was doing trying to get an education or hillbilly elegy, what he went through, i liked it and i have grant there is on life and philosophy and hated it but terra westover, when we started the show in november we talked about the lastingvalue of terra westover on the bestseller list, shes filled their. Its pretty remarkable. Uva school of engineering and applied science, bad blood, secrets and lies in silicon valley, Elizabeth Holmes. Every day somebody reads about Elizabeth Holmes and what a horrible person she is, it makes me happy. It should be on every Tech Companies list, on every reporter who covers the tech industry, the Healthcare Industry because so many of them were so snookered and i have a longstanding i have a longstanding request for the john kerry version. [inaudible] i dont think he does a lot. Ive seen him, this is john kerry of the wall street journal who broke the story when everyone was putting elizabeth on the cover of their magazines declaring her the next steve jobs, he was the one who broke the story, very serious guy. Served lots of beer and wine. I truly, then will get to my favorite one at the end but this is not college but a school in the dmv area, high school. Its a girls school, private school and they have two books theyre supposed to be reading in time for the hall and the one they get and the one is color of water, a black man tribute to his wife mother james mcbride. The book, understand that. The other one iscoldblooded by truman capote. Why . David, why . Its a really good book. Michael as a teacher of high school students, in cold blood western mark juniors in high school. The first word i think of is purpose, whats the purpose were assigning any of these books and at the undergraduate level, so much of it has to do with Building Community and if we think back to the first book you mentioned, its a very privileged position to be a College Freshman and i think adding reminders about an often forgotten workforce, no matter where you are whether thats a problem that is at your front door or whether youre walking by somebody who might be on staff that you forget about every single day as you walk back, thats a powerful reminder. With the example of the secondary school, i think about perspective and i think about looking from one single act and trying to see it from a variety of viewpoints and i think particularly with a group of girls that a, im thinking about what was dominating our new cycle last september and october area that had a lot to do with perspectives, memory, how you experience events and i think trying to gain the experience and knowhow and in academic settings to be able to separate herself from that primary situational on the faith and maybe trying to tackle it as a group. To be where the value is and the purpose in that. That what youre saying in cold blood makes sense . I dont know school, im trying to tackle why. It seems to be at any level. Maybe if you had in cold blood with serious hours by pc staff. Its a relatively review book that they hadthis year. Shes on the eastern shore, by the way. A wonderful guest. And it looks into harper lee but because we were just doing that present from truman capote, looked into the writing blood and what this new kind genre of true crime was really about and what it really was true. What wasnt, so that would be interesting. I read that book when i was 14. Its a great book that i dont understand whythat would be up to books , you would. And michael , whether we agree or not, theres some purpose so then seeing in cold blood, juniors in high school in dc made me look up of all the colleges and universities, called common reading usually, i couldnt find it on anybody else, theres a lot of commonalitya lot of these books. Terrawestover is everywhere but i could not find in cold blood anywhere. But what if the common experience is we have a generation there are children going through high school and we want the parents to be able to have that conversation with the kids at home at the extension of that classroom experience. That means the issue is with the required reading, we dont have a window into thinking as to why this is necessary or even valuable to their academic presence. It was not busy. It was not seemly. There seems like theres not much fiction on that list. If you look at every college and university you would buy more. You probably have reading lists through the year dominated by fiction and some of these choices might be trying to give them the, you would call it the background knowledge that their armed to understand the fiction in a meaningful way when they get back during the school year. I would argue that educated by terra westover is a lot of fiction. I argue. Shes not going to be on the show. Lawrence university in wisconsin. This is thanks to and butts. One of our best listeners. Both tony show and visio, athens and wisconsin, you havent heard a lot about it. This is the freshman reading for this fall. Needed guard by natosha treadway. Collection of short stories. Actually its poems. Honeybee democracy by thomas ely, housekeeping by marilyn robinson, the republic ofplato. Landscape or the fall of icarus and by the way kids, if youre in and going to Lawrence University, thats just the ball. Youve gotmore coming up in the winter and spring. Is a painting theres a william Karlos Williams poem about the painting so im wondering. That the poem of the poem on the reading list and then he looks at the painting. Is pretty remarkable. I thought to add, its pretty heavyduty. Is reading, this was so intense it and its really requirements and even now when they go back for reunions before their reunion , the class is given a book to read to discuss and when they get there. Theres a fair share of white wine drinking and beer drinking as well. They all sit and they talk about the book and read before the reunion. He will actually read off to you the number of graduates who gone to extraordinary things. From Lawrence University self god bless them. Will get out of this segment with this and if im going to start with you and michael. But if you can wait a little magic want is a freshman have to read this book this fall, what would it be mark. It just came out so we talked about this earlier. I would go with mikes novel. Im halfway through with remarkable. Since this is the 50th anniversary, i always think tom wolfe is a great writer so the right stop. I completely forgot to put on the list for this evening. David, why is that pertinence, not just the 50th anniversary. Anything that explores why people are willing to risk their own lives for no particular aggrandizement of their own, just because they think somebody has to do this. Somebody has to be the person to push the envelope as a throughout the book. What makes a person do that, what makes somebody run for president. Why ridiculously unfulfilling jobs and what kind of person they can do it . Crazy people. In the same vein. Just different kind of crazy people but i dont think they were thrill seekers. I dont think they were you know, they were, they didnt have a death wish i dont think. I think they honestly believe somebody had to do this and that they were, they had accommodation of traits that were necessary to do it. It would be nice if we can further this conversation with a book report about the right stuff. Thinking over here, this wasvery well said. In the year 2525, we get it. Im just pulling this completely out of the back of my brain but i would want to read something by joan didion because of her cynicism. And incredible precision as maybe slouching toward bethlehem or Something Like that, just to give them a little bit of a dark, nice eye. Michael. Im going to get the authors name wrong here so please forgive that but this is a book to me my my fatherinlaw and we designed passes together. This is called the club by caucus berger. Its a, not a perfect novel. This is in terms of required reading, its what i want to use it for in conversation. This looks at privilege in class and it understands youre going to contribute to the environment in which youre in area it looks at a young man who entered the university, and is idyllic uniform childhood, lost his parents and all of a sudden he is cast with this mission. He needs to join this secret boxing society camera and what happens when you become too close to your subject and its a young man trying to figure out his place in the world. I want to use thebook for required reading like this. That has holes in it, you can attack this book. Its not perfect but i think its a conversation that follows and i really enjoyed questioning my own role as i walked into that and i tried to see how someone going to look at me here because people often forget you had this troubled background and he embodies the sort of perfect Cambridge Society man who could knock your face out. And its a little bit of just sort of your fun. Youve been watching cable tv, using the soul which is in early 2000 terrible secret society movie. You want for 20 minutes and see that scene and get you lost in that world of injury and class and ivy league just everything. I like that one. I would like to go with nickel boys but i dont want torepeat your. Im sitting here looking at David Epsteins book is going tojoin us in a minute. It is so upends conventional wisdom and i think many people in college i got to and what this is is no, you need to open your mind, deep breath and try a lot of Different Things i think that would be an excellentbook. Marie. Thank you. Every once in a while, it works. We are at the city bookshop and we are happy to be here, thank you for your hospitality. Your scene is terrific and everyone should come here but were going to swap and take a break, swap you out with david and be back in just a minute. Were back with chatter on books, and a disclosed location, the bookshop pennsylvania avenue and weve been in an undisclosed location a few times so its nice to be out in the open where people can find a adware talking to david epstein. You are blowing minds, just driving type aand c people crazy and there are a lot of them in the dmv so were happy to have you. Open may be here on this panel. This could be therapeutic for some people. Im reaching for davids book which is called range why generalists triumph in a scattered world and the rule is if we like you and your smart and funny and you make us seem smart and funny, we will mention your books a lot and i hold it up and if you dont, just kind of go facedown. The mean and unfunny . This segment is going to be really awkward. Martin and funny, got. And fast. It is a fabulous book that we like to start with you, where did you come from and did you want to be an astronaut when you were young because we seem to have several authors on who claim to have one of the astronauts. Absolutely, i grew up outside chicago in evanston and i absolutely did. In fact, my plan was to go to the air force academy and become a test pilot. You go to space . I did. You and mike can correspond now. I got the congressional recommendation and i get this rolling basketball on my knees andall that kind of stuff. From a disease, now deceased congressman from illinois. And i did the physical test where i had to throw a basketball with my knees, it was one of the ones iremember and run a 600 and i decided not to go. I counsel is very confused when my choices came down ultimately to columbia and the air force academy because she you those as im rather opposite ends of the spectrum. You were kind of a job, you are a runner. I played basketball and baseball before running x which was your favorite weapon mark. Ultimately running became like a life skill for me though that became my favorite early on i fell in love with baseball. It depended. When i was in School Basketball was a thing, before that it was faithful and independent what season it was. By the generalist in the making but you didnt know it. Will hold the range. More time. So day job, reporter. Sports illustrated, go public, investigative reporter. How do those jobs were do they hope you with this book range and your other book 14 which is a bestseller, great book. Aggregate help you figure out these books. Before i was those things, i was looking at anything in the arctic when i decided to become a writer. We hear that all the time. And that science background helps a lot of when i decided to get off that track. I got to Sports Illustrated as a checker about six years older than the people i was checking for but soon realized that what i would say in my ordinary science were totally extraordinary in the context of a sports magazine so i started zooming from fact checker to youngest Senior Writer in a few weeks because of taking Something Like intellectual arbitrage of taking something ordinary in one area and putting it toward the extraordinary a the most useful thing for my books in a lot of ways. The sports gene and Sports Illustrated was obvious, i was a Science Writer for Sports Illustrated and have these questions about the balance of nature and nurture in sports from my own Sports Participation and viewing and i wanted to investigate. You know stock price . These are second author, one of her favorites. Hes very smart. Hes funny, too. Took a few beers but yes. So were talking about range, like a triumph in specialized world there are ways we could get this book which is pretty remarkable but i love the people part of it and you talk about the people. We start with roger fetter and tiger woods. In essence for the simplest wayof you presenting what this book is about. I thought of michael, the golfers in the world. I just thought of 10 other thing about how propublica led me to this book. I was doing recording there about standard practices in medical care at, are very popular but have been shown as evident not to work or be harmful but they continue to become more powerful and that got me interested in the reverse effects of medical specialization. Back a terrifying story for the cardiologists in the conference. Commercial break on why the terrified. It was a cardiologists convention and theyre not in the hospital. The backup was at the hospital. This is a study that found your check in for certain cardiac problems on the date of a cardiologyconvention, youre less likely to die. So a lot of the cardiologists are away and a lot of the very specialized prominence archaeologists are more likely to do procedures that have not been proven to help but have some risk with them. Specialization in medicine has been beneficial but there are perverse effects of it. Back to roger and tiger. I think the tiger woods story, if you dont know the details people absorb the just which is father gave him a putter when he was seven years old, not trying to turn them into a golfer, just giving it to him. 10 years old he starts imitating his swing. You can see him on national television, on youtube, mike douglas fastforward to age 21. Hes the best golfer in the world and it was very much an hour kind of story. Roger error is every bit as famous, traveled a different path. He played back basketball, soccer. His mother was a tennis coach but refused to coach him because he wouldnt return calls balls, he had some skiing,rugby, handball , volleyball and wet when his coaches wanted to move him to a higher level against older boys, he declined because they just wanted to talk about wrestling with his friends and when he eventually got good enough to warrant an interview with his local paper, the reporter asked him if youd ever become a pro, what will you buy with your first paycheck and he says a mercedes and his mother who doesnt want him putting all his eggs in his sports basket is all and asked the reporter if she can hear the interview tape and it turns out he said more cds in west german, not a mercedes so she was fine with that. So both of these guys got to the height, the pinnacle of their domain by very different paths only one of which we hear about and my question is which one of these is the norm. Norm or better . Both. And happier, honestly i actually tried to stay away. I know you did. But were going to dive right in. Because having brain, and all these things when i was at Sports Illustrated, it occurred to me that those actually dont influence most parents, much more focused on performance so i didnt want to introduce that and i wanted to stay focused on performance because i thought that was a message that was left out there and i have felt experience with the other message was less impactful. Because obviously its like the health of children for the paramount and probably wouldnt have some of the sports we have so i wanted to look at another. Its so interesting to go back to the golf world and post 1997 tiger world majors, obviously tiger has determined of the last 10 years and when and just a great comeback fashion but you look at the u. S. Open where woodland was famously College Basketball and then you have got the back player of the year, with the pga of the new york and he wentthe most recent wtc event who famously like the practice. He says i play golf when you see me on tv, showed a 45 minute for his time. Once he showed up this weekend, issues more time. An hour before the time. Is someone whos family comes from the baseball background, he seems to be, you have that balance in terms of how he approaches that sports he has done the preparation he still is looking outward as to who we is and how hefinds himself. David, athletes analysts versus specialists we have seen in i think in all support the last 10 or 15 years but particularly in pro basketball. A race to get started with your basketball career as soon as possible, sometimes as early as age 6 or seven. To the exclusion ofEverything Else. And when we were growing up, when i was growing up, you were more likely to be a multisport athlete. People played everything they play baseball, they played basketball. They were seasoned. They play different sports to stay in shape but different sports just use different muscle groups. And were seeing now, thesem wrote the story on this that basketball players arent suffering very serious injuries much earlier in their careers because all they do is play basketball. And there are studies, one of the university of wisconsin that says if you are viewed as someone who is exclusively a basketball or exclusively , you spend a certain amount of time for certain number of months per year, eight months out ofthe year to sing or playing , you are much more likely to suffer a injury because thats all you do. You dont do anything else. So i think thats part of what were seeing,part of the tradeoff. I dont know that necessarily a better mousetrap but it is the way that that particular sport has gone. I dont know enough to say that a lot of problems were because of specialization but he was so focused, so intense and i heard you say and others say that the father never forced him, that he wanted to play the sevenmonthold and was not saying i want to play golf. And somebody in his handhere. But he had an intense laserlike focus i could not have been good for him emotionally. And i think we saw that in the later years, whathappened to his career. I dont know how to think on the psychology but i think there is, for today , theres even for those kids who are the specialization definition, most of the studies is eight or more months a year and no others were, to be in some of the protective effect of playing other sports even if you are doing which is interesting. In some serious athletic outfits have adopted this. I think time with a physiologist for cirque du soleil, they have a lot of incredible performers and they started having their former learn the basics of other performance disciplines. Subjectively made them more creative in designing their performances but objectively measured the injury rate next canadian genetics and their injury rates by 30 percent and they got me, they got to think this is serious time away from the main discipline to do that but tiger, i think there is a potential, again, looking at the performance standpoint for specialization to work involved, but as i started outlining in the book, both which has been extrapolated in all these bestselling books everything you want to learn is a uniquely poor model of Everything Else you want to learn including other sports. Moving on from sports, i doubt many people know francis has a line so give us say 15 seconds on vince and why hes in yourbook and a lot more on francis. Vince at about five different careers. Always be open to with incredible gusto. He was a pastor in training, teacher, art dealer. He all of his colleagues remarked he hasnt federal endurance and had ecstatic start and flamed out until hes approaching 30 by a book called the abcs ofdrawing. Who knew like that existed. I went to look for. And francis, a second light on this one. You save time on vince so now you got as much as you want. I just learned the time by asking how much time. Its range by david epstein, get the book. More jokes. Francis is a character in the book was born in johnstown pennsylvania and she dropped out of college. 17 because her father was passing a way to take care of her own family is an assistant, that was the only job he ever applied for. She got married, her husband went away to world war ii and was a combat photographer. Came back, they settled in johnstown. He turns into the odds gods person, whatever needsto get done , she does it basically. And when shes in her mid30s, a prominent woman from her area comes and asks her to be the volunteer had a girl scout troop. And she said no, i have a son, i dont know anything about that and the woman says will just have to ban these girls from the modest backgrounds who meet in a Church Basement and she says fine, six weeks and find a real person. She falls in love with it and stayed with them for seven years and says now im done with it and long story short, people keep coming to her and saying wed like you to do this with a girl scout saying no and they say its not like something fall through. A teller theyre going to, we want you to read the United Way Campaign and i think the second woman to lead one of these United Way Campaigns was last year and francis was the first. In the mid20th century. And they say well, girl scouts are going to lose its partnership if you dont step up ill do it and then find a real leader and johnstown as the highest per capita of giving in the country and she keeps on taking the job when somebody says to her to do it, she says suites and find a real leader. In the mid50s she decides to take an actual role, and actual professional paid job the local Girl Scout Council. And later on, she gets called to interview for the ceo job and the previous ceos of the girl scout and unbelievable financials, captain Dorothy Stratton started the Coast Guard Reserve in world war ii, then a psychology professor, also to experience in the industry. The previous ceo had gone, radcliffe which was at the time the Womens College before college age and made breakthroughs in the study of cells and all the sorts of things. Francis one of 355 local Girl Scout Council directors and like she did with everything, she declined the interview and her husband who had been a photography and films that i wanted to live in new york so im going to drive you there and you can say no in person so she goes to the interview and shes not nervous because shes not taking the job and they say what would you do with girl scout and she outlines a total transformation saying i would brought my handbook, you need multiple handbooks that appeal to Different Girls of different ages and different backgrounds, huge emphasis on diversity. He says the leadership should represent the people we want to attract, all these certain things and offer her the job so she arrives in 1976 so having had her first professional job at age54 she arrives in her 60s as ceo of the girl scouts, turned around, increases membership, and 130,000 volunteers, these are people there paying in admission, not in money. She increases minority participation by a third so she gets rid of those handbooks and she commissions artists and says, this is her words, an indigenous girl on an ice flow in alaska, she opened this book i want her to see her in a girl scout uniform and everyone tells her too soon. The financial stuff, then worry about diversity but she said diversely is a problem and were going to do that first. He turns it around, savesthe organization. Drucker names are the greatest ceo in america and is she should take over gm. When there is a vacancy so she decides like with everything she says now i have retired from the girl scouts, im going to go home to pennsylvania and write a book and she gets called the next day by an Insurance Company and she had been on the board and they said come see her office, what you talk about, i dont have an office and her whole life they realize she never knew what she was going to do next and they said take it and will figure out what shes going to donext. Shes teaching at west point, and at the age of 103 1 2, five days a week in manhattan. We see the value of generalists but there are some cultures that were entrenched with specialists and the two i think most of us come up against our the operating room and the cockpit. We want specialists in those jobs. What can a generalist bring to those worlds, operating room and cockpit that benefit everyone . Thats a great question. I didnt do anything. Its tangential, range. Thanks. So starting with the operating room, it is and i mentioned this in the book because i want to point out that specialists work better than generalists in some areas, it depends on the domain. We want to hear a surgeon. Specialized surgeons have fewer publications, not only that but on top of the number of times done the surgery, Something Else about being specialized caused them to have publications but theyre more likely to do a surgery on someone who doesnt need it which can cause a lot of risks to one of the most popular orthopedic surgeries in the world is meniscus repair like you have knee pain, not acute but you have knee pain and you go in and theres a crescent fiber in your knee, but carol is going to be able to say to the surgeon, hold upthere, dont do that. What generalists are good at his zooming out on the evidence so the problem is there so specialized they all work with surrogate markers so theyre not working with the organism you care about, the old person, the outcomes you care about. In this case meniscus, they shave the knee back and some more generous doctors say lets do a study on the things you care about and they did it and the control arm was shams surgery, they did just as well. And recovered quicker. So the generalists are often instead of looking at did we fix the meniscus, its did we get the outcomes we care about and now its turning out that in all these instances where they alter some part of your circulatory system, but people die of heart attack and stroke atthe same rate with better Blood Pressure numbers so the generalists, some of them said instead of looking at these surrogate markers , thats important for research, we want to look at the outcomes that you care about. Pilot are great. In fact, an and in making thisn book, almost threequarters of commercial air accidents, that doesnt mean the crash, happened on a crew first it working together. Not only do you want, like when you go by the cockpit, i because worked together before . If they say no, get your drinks early. Dont tell this to tony. When things go as expected, thats what the talk but in the book, when things dont change much, you want the specials. The problem is with something unusual happens the specialist will stick to certain routines even went to an outsider it becomes clear it was ridiculous. I was talk about this with head of safety at delta who was about 80 said he is a scientist with the said stop thinking like a pilot. When he says the puzzle of and is able comply with all the things are supposed to do and he says what and what is safety first compliance second. If needed break complaint you should should do that but that becomes difficult for people who are used to regions over and over. This is something that has been incorporated into training. This classic research finding, transfer your delete to take your skills and knowledge and apply them to ascend the earth you havent seen before and what particular build is a broad any was. You need to broaden peoples training. Can you talk about andre . Were going to take a break year and a second and get some people, questions on august. Ig nobel is the most silliest research of you. Ask people if theyre willing to accept it before announcing it because the reputational concerns. Its logo is thinker statute but its falling over on the ground on its back. Its called the stinker. Andre one the price for one of his what he calls friday night experiment were on fight night he has the lab just to stuff that doesnt have a grant and did not apply to do and dont know what to get. They just experiment. He won that for experiment where he levitated frogs with strong electromagnetics. You might need to explain that. Basically, everything but especially fogs because of a lot of water, so use very strong magnets of voter fraud used a frog to levitate. He won the ig nobel for that. For another one of his experiments all the more productive he came up with it, he mimicked gecko feet. The known scotch tape felt led to the discovery of the first single adam but through which was thought to be only theoretical and he won the nobel prize for that. At the end of the book i want to focus on specialists who managed to find ways to making the benefits of breath anyway within the specialization. With this friday night experiments thats what he does picky says he likes to change his Research Area every five years. He says its not psychologically comfortable, but he said he likes to say he doesnt be researched, only search. There needs to be room for that thing if want of those breakthroughs. Are you a generalist or a specialist . Its a semantic issue. When i became a Science Writer sports science, other student as specialized whereas where as i was coming from grad school and then going to writing so i view myself as a generalist. I think my sites background informs what i do and helps, but every project i i take on unlia beginner. By the time i project is out and will im feeling like a freshman and whatever else im doing. I have a great segue. We didnt serve in beer and wine to our again here. Youre intimidated so if you are not dying to ask questions. You. I i still look like in only. We love your book, range. I found this not oddly, i found this wonderfully inspiring and reassuring because i that 9 million jobs and probably another 50 perform done. I read this and go okay, im all right. Im okay. Were talking earlier about freshman and what they should be reading. Knowing what you know now and if you a freshman in college again, how would you do things typically . Gosh, thats a great question. I also think that is not a question i want to answer specifically because one of the tenets i ended up being a subject in one of the studies in the book called the dark course project about how people find work with high match quality. This project were called the dark course project because these people come in for the interview and say dont tell people to do i did because he started in this thing, realize it was for me, did this other thing and then to make my own ground. I came out of nowhere. They named it the dark course project because large majority people view themselves as dark courses. Those people instead of making a ten year plan their habit of mine was saying heres where i am right now, here are my skills and interest, heres the opportunity for me. Ill try this one and maybe you for now i will change. The room to make those mistakes was important for me. I dont want to have had any thing prescribed in retrospect. I like looking forward instead of having sort of prescribed plan. I want to set what event a big reader to guess im a voracious reader now and i was not at the time, but i just read they are there by tommy orange which i love. I subscribe to the great lover of independent bookstores and subscribe to the indispensable program, the estimate secret to what hes doing. He says late start, got a job in a bookstore. Since i was late i wasnt over reading and i just became voracious about it. I think i wouldve just been, you know, nothing to do with my work and i wouldve been i think im pretty nice now, like i try to understand you were not nice before . We need another half an hour. Just as you mature you realize how important it can be to treat everyone you encounter no matter how you encounter them with some level of dignity. When youre younger maybe that doesnt release me that didnt always cross my mind. Thats lovely. Whats next . I have no idea. Seriously i have no idea. Thats the answer we wanted. I used to be sheepish about saying that but know if you like i wrote the book, like i can say that. Its like on brand for the first time ever. Its really fabulous and i think everybody not just freshman going to college should read range. David, thank you for being with us. Stay here. Take a quick break, come back with Deserted Island. Thank you. Thanks. [applause] were back with chatter on books at the city bookshop. We have a question. Go ahead. Thought leadership is the 21st century buzzword but one with merit. With yourself and semper and grant and others, you guys come your Community Look at as thought leaders. Do you embrace the time of being a thought leader . With some content coming out from this great group, how do you screen your ideas and examples and analogies to make sure they havent been used before . Gosh, thats an interesting question. It is funny. I would say in some with the older ive gotten the less seriously i think myself. I laughed a little in my head when here myself called a thought leader. If it means people are interesting, interested and engaged in the work, then i think thats cool, very cool but i would never call myself a thought leader. I really like some of those writers you mentioned, and so im really glad their work resonates. As far as choosing the anecdotes, i read a lot and so i think ive some sense of whats out there. But also when a funny these things, i think come here come some confirmation bias. My strategy for the first year as i dont write anything, i tried to read ten scientific articles a year of you. How did everything i would write anything about that . I used to chide myself for inefficiency and now i think thats what gives me this expansive search function right into finding these things that other people have the, like people have done the story before. So to put research in this book about how important inefficiencies, i now think my own efficiency is one of my competitive advantages and helps me find you stories of the people dont buy. That could be tremendous selfjustification im not sure but i think its worked for me so far. Weve had been pink, we love them. I love dan, i love marie and weise is a if we bred marie and dan the world would be a better place. If we can get you on the family, it will be phenomenal. Quite a breeding phenomena. Coldfusion or something. Weve had fabulous Deserted Islands but this one might be my favorite. Youre on a Deserted Island, come back in your next life and your back on the Deserted Island which is kind of sad. You come back as an author, what author are you coming back as . Mind is cute and sweet. You will be last. Mine is beatrix potter. I learned the tricks was not her first name. First name was helen. She writes these lovely stories, lots of animals. She was a naturalist, a conservationist, she knew a lot about botany. You can back on the Deserted Island for the second time and youll you will be able to hang out with the animals and the floor and the final so i think ill be good. This is really a hard question. I dont know why this is your favorite of all of our Deserted Islands. Very revealing. Boots in the hammer, dad, im thinking about an author the middle looking as a kid. This an author mentioned before, brian jakes. This is probably the most influential author on my reading career and as with the independent bookstores and sort of the interactions between booksellers and clerks and how they can impact the choices you make him thinking about a local bookstore, connecticut avenue, northwest called childs play with a had a small hole in one and the backup now a much story picked up my first copy of moss lower which was my entree into this world of the critters of the force, good versus evil. My feelings have grown more complicated. Within a couple of emails right to me and talk to this wasnt overly simplified world. Much what i loved about the stories was how sort of textual, visible this what was and so much was because the author went to make this room accessible to kids who didnt have site. I think about the books i read now. Im staring at about that in a fantasy section thats been a really fun book over the last couple of years, and this reader and his readers were questioning, this is creating stereotypes in his kids, very impressionable tiger what are they going to take with these lessons Going Forward . Is a books i read, this was lower elementary Going Forward. I read this to walk away news a newborn. I read this to them before he was even born. That would be really interesting way with the way we approach reading and influenced you can have on kids now to talk about some of those oversimplifications which i think were assigned at the time and i also think we are a bit misguided as a tribe to give kids the access to understand ive seen Something Like this before. Im able to make a prediction, predicting is so powerful and reading. Im able to make a prediction about this character and thats going to let me get through this chapter book. I love the concept, the execution. Youll be on a Deserted Island by yourself so will be hard to share a lot of this but its still good. Its lovely. Beatrix and i will come visit. Those of you who know me know it is not Emily Dickinson or james austin. I did not want to take this question too seriously, but i decided if i want to come back as dorothy parker. Good one. Got to trash famous plays on broadway and pick off lots of important producers and get herself fired from vanity fair. And then could be sort of meaning in the name of literary criticism, theater criticism. Thats my mean side. And then went out to hollywood and this i did not know, she was a writer of the original script for a star is born and won an Academy Award for her screenplay. Shared it with others. You can do books and movies on your Deserted Island. Perfect. So many choices that i came down to much like my goal, the books, some of the things i remember when i was a child. I think i will be dr. Seuss because i could name everything on the island, no matter if thats the actual name of it or not and i could make things rhyme. Favorite dr. Seuss book . The cat in have probably. Great lasting value. I like that a lot. David . When you start off with a practicable, the author witchcraft or whatever although i dont know who that is. The next that was where the crawdad sings. Excellent one. If im thinking about the author whose head i would most like to be in, its probably one most people have heard of them martin mcdonough, and irish playwright who is gotten more famous for doing movies. He did three billboards but i think his movies dont hold a a candle to some of his place like one called the pillow man which i think is, when i read that i was like this can go in like the Dante Shakespeare kind of realm. I think i want to be martin mcdonough. For one people have heard of i would say neil game in. I love his writing range picky connexus only people in summary different ages in so many different genres and he does radio, film. Just wholly different types of projects, and do some who likes to experiment in different media and different types of writing from dont the kids i think that would be a fun had to be and also. Michael cohen to the books on the island. You can do the movies. David, you and i would fantasy and you can do place. Perfect. Thank you for being with us. My pleasure. Its really wonderful to read and its really inspiring i think for many, many, many people. A custom housekeeping to do. If i dont do this to eyelash until september that would just be hell to pay. We have many listeners who are also loyal listeners. We welcome them all and they are planning a summer of little two on august 3, 5 p. M. And only so far 21 laces around the world they will be meeting to get together because they have to get together every few months. At least 21 different places trying to make it out. Its frankfort michigan, without scum cincinnati, alberta australia London England lexington, kentucky, alaska new york. Goes on and on. If you want more information you can email summer of littles two at gmail. Com. Thank you bobby take such good care of us. Speaking of taking care of us thank you to were in the gain. Your great post. Thanks for having us here. For every make this happen, plot and marcellus thank you thank y much. Nothing would happen without you. The cspan game for being so understanding of our somewhat unusual situation. Its been a grade eight, nine months. With a few weeks off, we will come back in september and david we hope to get you back for the next book. And i say one independent bookstore thing . Image and abaci, facebook before the dont have Human Interaction but i also think the recommendation algorithm is good for some things but in bookstores you find interest you did know yet. That doesnt happen in the recommendations algorithm. I couldve bookstores to find interest i i did know i have. Have you and wants bookstores in neighborhood at this is would help make that happen. Buy some books. Walk in. Its wonderful. There are real people here at their knowledgeable and great. Thanks for being it and we will see you in september. [applause] [inaudible conversations] every year booktv covers book fairs and festivals around the country. Heres a look at some events coming up. Welcome again to the 16th annual roosevelt reading festival. My name is Kirsten Carter and im the head of the Archives Department here at the library. We are so pleased to host such a Wonderful Group of authors this year, one of our very, very favorite events. If you enjoyed this event and would like to support the library, we would encourage you to become a member. You can do that online any time or by signing up at the table in the hallway today