And this event excited to see folks here and excited for the last two events. We have stacy chin up next at 5 30. Closing us out for the weekend. But before that, im really excited to welcome Kimberly Dark here. Performer, thinker, critical analyst, and generally essayist. I dont know any other nouns you prefer. So sorry, im algebraic dead, long weekend. But im excited to welcome her here to our stage to talk about her book fat, pretty and soon to be old so join me in giving her a warm round of maas. Ill talk to the three of you sitting in front of me. I want to say thank you to dr. Kennedy diif would be standing there getting a book signed myself if i werent here busy with other things. Im Kimberly Dark and its my pleasure to be here with you. Im also fat, pretty and soon to be old, as the title says, and well talk about appearance privilege and how that works. So if you could just look around you right now and focus on a stranger. Dont stare. That would be weird, but just give a stranger in mind and think about what kind of words you would you use to describe that person. Dont say them. That would also be weird. But what kind of words you would use to describe that person if you wanted to be nice. Okay. And now think about what kind of words you would use to describe that person if you really wanted to insult them. Yeah. You can come up with those even though if you might think you would never say them. Thats possible. So, take a look at me. Im going to stand up for just a minute. Same deal. What kind of words would you use if you wanted to be nice, if you didnt want to be nice. And well talk about how niceness has consequences, and the lack of it has consequences in peoples lives. Id like to point out to you that words like fat and old are almost never used as compliments, even though they are neutral dedescriptive terms. They are synonymous with insult in our culture. So ill tell you some stories from the book and heres the first comment on being old, i read from paper rather than the book because this is an 18point font and i cant read it otherwise. So thats what im going to do. I suggest to you that feeling you have when youre thinking good words but another person, thats the one we want to encourage. We want to let go of all of the power that comes from the other. All right. This is called the chance to practice. So, ive been practicing yoga for 30 years and teaching for more than 20 now. This is the he body of a longterm yoga practitioner. Ive done things with this body that would astound you. This is the body all of the yoga magazines have promised you. Its okay to laugh. Because we all understand without saying why that no one should want a fat body like mine. See, my regular yoga practice started because my back hurt from carrying the baby and then my friend wendy said come to the adult school, and im taking bogeya. The teacher is weird and its a big drafty room with concrete floors but maybe rather than three on every street corner. Now that yoga has become a fitness across. We call that teacher freaky fillus because she was weird and saying goofy stuff. Superior hindu spirituality. The wasnt a clear thinker, one day she started talking about our Mother Teresa was the perfect example of hindu spirituality. That is couldnt swallow, so i said, phyllis, Mother Teresa is catholic. To which she clubbed and said, i just didnt understand. So, wendy and i decided we cant stand phyllis and wanted to learn more so we chose a different yoga studio, proper studio. Win dewent on tuesday, i would go on this. Wed work it tout to go together the following week. When direported the class was great, quiet, nice props, good instruction. So on tuesday i showed up a bit early and met the teacher. She looked me up and down and said, oh, i dont know if im going to let you come to the group class tonight. At first i really didnt understand. Even though ive been the fattest woman in the aerobics class and the gym, on the hiking trail my whole life issue wasnt thinking about being different in a yoga class. The adult school we had been attending had a variety of students, different ages, shapes and sizes. This new teacher look at my body some more and said, well, you in the, with new students, we have you take some private classes first. Then we can tell if youre ready for a group class. Oh, im not new to yoga, i said. Ive been practicing a couple years. To which she replied, well, clearly you have some orthopedic difficulties. And so i left. My face hot with silent shame. Because this is how it works. She was in charge and this is how it works. She probably didnt even mean to be biased or bigoted or realize she was treating me differently than she treated slender wendy. She was probably just managing her discomfort with my body and her mind was super fast to make up an excuse with which she was really comfortable. Honorable, even. I mean, she was just being reasonable. See, this is how it works. Im not supposed to say anything. Im supposed to take the shame she gave me and carry it, and if that youthful point in my life, thats what i did. I turned and left and i tried not to feel bad when wendy would mention taking classes at that pretty little studio, because i didnt speak up, that teacher never had a chance to practice being her better self. She never had a chance to confront her fears of my body. And she had just confirmed them further because i followed the script. We both followed the cultural script we were given. But listen, dont be sad because you already know how this story ends. I found a teacher who treated me like a regular student, and indeed i became a regular student. And then i trained to be a teacher, and i welcome everyone to the yoga mat. I welcome bodies like mine, bodies different from mine, and some bodies that scare me, too. How will i teach this person . I wonder. And then i challenge myself to find out. I check my language and how i enter act with bodies, because we all deserve respect and encouragement and my cultures failings are in me, too. When people challenge my body and the teacher rolled, as they sometimes do, with words or glances, i give. The another chance. I smile and maintain eye contact and remain in my full humanity, as the question my validity. Oh, it doesnt happen all the time, but it happens consistently. This is the culture in which we live. The fat middle aged lady should not be the fitness instructor, the yoga instructor, the rock climber, the disco dancer, the fat middle age lady should not be physical or respectable in any way. I am respectable in the body i have every day, and i give people the chance to join me in that view. Im a yoga teacher and i show people how to practice with the body and the mind, just like with yoga. Diligence with language and thinking bring improvement. It doesnt matter who we are. When we practice something long enough, we learn. [applause] im going to stand and sit a little bit because im also a little built disabled and its helpful to me. So i wanted to start with that story because i think that it frames something about my own practice, which is that when people confront me with their negative views, whether its of my appearance or my identities i try to stay kind and steadfast and i totally know a careful callout can do a world of good sometimes, but the reason i try to stay kind is i want the world that is more capable of holding and respecting diverse bodies, and i think part of how we get that world is by respecting the kind of diversity we dont always like either. And now this is not the same as trying to clam up and disappear. Thats the steadfast part. Right . When someone disrespects me i do my best to stay complex, stay in my full human diggity because i understand when i interact with someone who behaves badly, im probably enter acting with someone who is wounded and doesnt know it. I also understand that my dignity heals others. My dignity can heal others. So, im going to tell you another story thats also from the book, even though im reading it from the page. Lets see. We have a little less time. Im feeling like you want the story about john travolta. Thats what im feeling. Becoming travolta. Okay, saturday night fever ways the first rrated film i ever saw issue sat uncomfortably next to my mother during the whole film, knowing at some point someone would have sex and she would have her eye on me and there it was. John travolta and that woman he. Started to have sex in back seat of a car but i was even more uncomfortable he the young woman cried because travolta dumped already for somebody else. Could feel my mothers smugness. That trollon got her comeupans. It was her fault and my mother wanted know take a lesson. Thats what i imagined. Later at home as she was ironing sat on the bed and my mother wanted to know if i had any questions about such an adult film. Good heaps no, under no circumstances did i have in the questions about the film. La la la. I tend out whatever happened next. It was awful. The next time i saw an rrated film with my mother was probably 20 years later and only slightly less uncomfortable. See, when i am a guy in my minds eye, i am a Young John Travolta character. Im veinie bash recent fro from welcome back cotter or dance neglect white suit in saturday night fever, or better yet, all black with my hair slicked back singing youre the wasnt that i wont from grease. Its not that im interested in being a guy. Or taking on a romantic role other than my own but travolta is one ingredient in my adolescent stew. The only mail actor ive imtated with any leg regularity and i have become travolta across a range of characters mitchell friends and i loved the movie from saturday night fever. The bee gees were dreamy and the gibb brothers were the hotties of the day. It was rated r, and the nightclub scene it depicted was a little complex and disturbing for some of us. We listened to the music anding nord the film. But when grease game out a year later my friends and i were in our element. Even though those actors didnt look Like High School kids we accepted them also our own. This was 1978. My friends and i ranged in ten aim from 10 to 13, and the plot line was easier to understand than Saturday Knight fever. No urban grate. That silly suburban setting in which our plot lines played out despite the 1950s being long gone. What did we love best . The transformation arson contract dee. Do you remember this system of you do. Wow wishing all wanted to be here, to have that kind of power over that kind of guy. We wow, we loved greasedlight inning and them squirmed for it to end, but then over in and over we would dance and lip sync and sometimes even sing you better shape up, because i need a man. And my heart is set on you. Now, the trouble with the burninged in to put on this spectrum tack over and over again is be were all girls. We boys flood interest in playing they game and would would have been embarrassed to ham it around them. We all wanted to be sandy and her shiny spandex pants and stiletto heels. But in my friend group of four, i was always cast as the leading bad boy greaser. It was my destiny. I already knew the score and had come to embrace my role in the group. Ask anyone who grew up as a fat girl if she are got the female lead with thinner girly girls around . I would put money on the answer being, no. This is probably also true for girls who were considered unattractive if theyre prettier friends wanted the roles. We didnt even discuss it. Thats just hough it was, someone had to be travolta it and would be me. I was the biggest in the group, so the most convincing guy. Or maybe that meant i was the least convincing sandra dee. We took our roles from hollywood, and did our best to divvy them up, and action them out in our child bodies. That lady lady role, the feminine role, playing the one to whom men needed to be attracted. I it was not for me. This is the most important lesson some girls learn early on. Not everyone can try out for that part. You wont get it. And youll only humiliate yourself trying. See, flamer was the reason sandra dee became a knockout. She was just a pretty little girl before the final transformation. Just nice. But with already hair all curled up, wearing bright lipstick stilettos she became the trophy forgot travolta to could he fell to the nyes in front of Olivia Newton john and the hunch with which she follows her as she sleeks away, only to return and dominate him again and again. I sang, youre the one that i want in and i other two friended added, ooh, ooh, ooh. I practiced as my bouncy little blonde best friend, insecure in her open freckled beauty, vamped over me and an overly theatrical way. The other two girls in our foursome were understudies for Olivia Newton john, sometimes they were hand on hip Stockard Channing about i was travolta. At some point i started to realize that there were more like me. Fat girls who could really dance and knew what it meant to be hot. How to be funny some smart. We were observers and supporters. But we were also travolta. The leading man in our own minds. At some point i realized that being restricted by Convention May have been lonely at times, but in this i was not unique. Other fat girls took their roles with zeal all the while studying both part with fervor. We didnt stop being Olivia Newton john inside. Even though we had the travolta role. Sure, some girls who draw up to identify with masculinity were probably pleased as punch to become travolta and never gave olivia another thought. Those are the women i date, but i wasnt one of those. I dont know this for sure, but i suspect that the masculinizing of fat girls perhaps it turns some over queer girls into assertive, fem dikes. There are more than a few of us out there and i ive always wondered how we can be to fabulous, fat femmes in particular. Takes gumption to be other than average in the female category, fat and queer and exaggerate the big prize that sandy finally held aloft in grease, assertive, sexy, femininityity. Becoming travolta was not an entirely raw deal. He was the leading man, after all. My other two friends only understudied Olivia Newtonjohn. We all did that. But in the show i was the male lead, again and again. Sure it would be a better world if we all had the freedom to be the characters we like best, one by one, and in innovative combinations. I do hope that day is coming. And becoming travolta wasnt so bad. Its amazing how the roles we didnt want can make us richer sometimes. [applause] today i would be do you know who liz sew is, a pop star, look her up. She is doing good work, spreading love herself nowdays. So, listen, im a sociologist by train something and most of the stories write are about my own life and its not because i think theres something so allfired interesting but money life. Its just that my stories are the ones i am entitled to work with. My life is the best tool i have to experiment with the expectations that society gives us, and i think we could all stand to Pay Attention a little bit more to those expectations and how we conform to them, rub up against them, push against them, all of these things, because youll know were creating culture. Thats it what humans. Do i dont mean me. I men all of us think way we behave, speak, helps set standards for right and wrong and influence how people we will never meet are treated well into the future and i think thats hard to remember when were just out the grocery store, going to a yoga class, right . But i think that theres something to to page attention to the stories we live. How are you all doing . Should i tell you one more story, and then if you have questions, i would love to know them. So, i was going to share one about disability. Dont think i have time. But this is called anatomy of a putdown. Were kind of kind of staying solidly in these this category of stories that are about fat and gender and i want to be clear, though, that this idea about what pretty means, like we commonly think about that i hope we do, is being rooted in white supremacy. But so is the hatred of fat in white supremacy. I refer you to a sabrina springs new book, fearing the fat body. But so this is important. The intersections of what we think of is attractiveness, and how we treat people with regard to health and income and lots of different privileges. All right. Anatomy of a putdown. Recently, at dinner, my neighbors fiveyearold grandson taylor watched me sit down and said to his grandpa at full volume, hahaha, she is even fatter than me. She is fat. He finished with emphasis, looking at me out of the coe. Of his eye because clear hi the statements were meant for me, too. Grandfather and two others at the dinner table did that pullback, that sucking up the air and saying nothing we have learn to do in awkward social moments. I know this child. Not well but i have had meals with him before. Ive seen him in the neighborhood. He has never called me fat before but who knows, maybe he was bored and looking for a bit of entertainment. He seemed to want to amuse himself with adult discomfort or perhaps just with my shame. Though he was talking to his grandfather, trying to find an accomplice in the joke, said, hey, taylor, did you just call me fat . And he turned to me with a bit of fear on his face because, whoa, this is not how its supposed to good i was also speaking at vol volume for the other diners to hear. I dont think theres any wrong with being called fat because its not bad to be fat, but you know what . Some people think thats an insult word so maybe you shouldnt say it until you hear. The say it first and then you know its okay because you know otherwise you could really hurt somebodys feeling. Over not hurting my feelings, though. Fat is just one of the ways for bodies to be. So what . His mouth hung open for a moment, staring at me. One of the other diners relieved, said, wow, that was a really good answer. I nodded and added, speaking to her but also so that young taylor could hear, well, you know, some people have learn that being fat is shameful. Thats white everyone goes silent when kid says Something Like that good to show them theres no shame needed. Grandfather raised hid eyebrows, impressed, then turned to taylor and said a bit tauntingly, haha, she got no shame for you. Taylors mouth still hung open. You want to know what shame is . He continued. Thats when your caught stealing something at the store and everybody sees you get caught. Thats when you feel shame. Now, im not sure what taylor was absorbing at that point help may have been thinking, wow, sometimes you pipe up and everything takes a hard right turn. Thats for sure, kid. Thats for sure. See, kids learn from reflection and from trial and error, just like adults. Theres certainly no fast track. A little while later he gave his called his grandfather old man in a pointed tone, meant to hurt. I gave him the i see you eyes but i didnt say anything. Taylor was five. As we shared that meal. And i know him to be very smart and mouthy and forgive film justicing at a dinner table, taylor and my grandson is the same age mitch first reflection might to feel mug how his parents taught him not to feel or throw body shame, not like hes perfect. He could also poke a friend and say of someone else sitting at the same table, hes fat. Or stupid or has stinky feet or eats salt for dinner, or, or, or. Sure he could. At five. And everyone learns its possible to elevate ones self by putting down someone necessary a clever way. And if you learn that others will clued with putdowns and he can feel a sense of belonging by creating an inside joke but someone else, its not just possible. Its likely. Furthermore, he could do that at school and never admit to being that kind of person at the dinner table with his parents, who dont approve of body shaming. Now, when my son was five, i overheard him with some neighborhood friends as they played a game on our patio. They were talking about teenage ed mutant ninja turtles, a big show on tv. They were reminiscing about theyre favorite episodes and i my son chimed in with his favorite episode, blow by blow. One thing puzzled me weapon didnt have a tv. I asked him later where he had seen that show, and he shrugged and said heed never seen it. When i told him what i had overheard, he look at me sweet faced as and if said, oh, when i heard other kids talk us about the show i enemy rised what they said so that i could tell the story again the next time kids were talking about it. Everyone talks about. I wanted to talk about it, too. I nodded because that made sense. The woman seated next to me at the dinner table when taylor commented on me being fat, one of the people who recoiled in silent honorer when he said it, she is a kindergarten teacher. She is also the one who said i gave really good answer. After taylor turn his attention well, she told me that she had seen children in her class say this sort of thing, trying to make another child feel bad. She said she never knew what to say. And i thought, really . I mean, even though a person has children or works with children, somehow one may never find an adequate response. And i think this means we arent looking for one. Kids learn theres power in befuddling adults just like theyre power to be gain in successfully hurting another persons feelings. Its a sad kind of power but its power nonetheless. Taylor was definitely puffed up in that small moment when everyone fell uncomfortably silent before i spoke. Now, im also thinking of the wording in taylors specific comment. She is even fatter than me. He is not a fat child at all. Although ive seen him put away some dessert. Four brownied that night, so i imagine people have threatened him with becoming fat. Quit eating those or youll become fat. Thats what people tell kids all the time. Still, this is a sophisticated game taylor has already learned to play well before his sixth birthday. Not only his controlling adult behavior, albeit briefly and not only is he bonding with someone over the putdown of another and not only does he know which things to say to shame a green woman, he knows how to improve his own image in the process. Now, while most adults put aside direct putdowns in favor of subtler shade, many adults still think if they put themselves down, too, theyre not really being meanies to include others in the insult. One way that fat people themselves can perpetuate fat hatred at the same time the seek community. Come on, that kind of insult says, were awful big and gross, ill admit of before you throw it in my face and ill pull you in. My mother use the kind of insult taylor used regarding food. Shelfs not fat, either. Recently we were eating oatmeal and after spooning brown sugar into her own steaming bowl she looked over and compared to the color of my oatmeal said, wow issue put more senator my cereal than everybody except you. Now friends we were the only two people at the table if took a deep breath and replied simple my, i didnt put any sugar in mine. Its dark chocolate. She sat upright in surprise and without missing her volley replied, oh, well, if you want to have chocolate for breakfast i suppose that makes sense. No one could call her a bully. Nosiree. See that taylor he is a smart kid. Ill bet you know some like him. One of the best things but parenting and grandparenting is the constant opportunity to up our own fame and we get to choose which game it is and what were teaching. Whenever theres a silence after an insult like taylor residents or about any up spoken bias, like when a kid innocently comments on someones race, or social class, we can Pay Attention. Make a mental note and then talk that stuff through with peers so that we invent the answer that teaches something positive the next time. We rarely have a perfect comeback when were surprised, but why be surprised by thinks that are said or intimated again and again. Im certain live not surprised when someone speaks ill of fat. It happens all the time. Taylors comment at least was clear and direct. Thats all i did when spoke up. I had invented a better answer and i delivered it with clear, calm, eye contact. Everyone at the table felt relief and hopefully taylor learned something. At the very least he added a possible a new responsible to the possible repertoire of answers that adults can give. Beginning in childhood, i was handed this same shame that every fat person has been handed. And for the first part of my life, i carried it. And then i learned to put it down. And then i learned to talk about it. You can, too. If we want kids to grow up and take responsibility for their words and actions, its time adults do more of that ourselves. [applause] thank you. So, let me just ask you, is it gotten easier to hear the word fat as a neutral discrepancitive term during the time ive been talking . A little bit . This is progress right here. Right . This is what i would like to sort of finish with and see if you have some questions, is the idea that humans are malleable like rid rally in space of 30 minutes hearing that word shifted for you, he meaning shifted, it became more normalized. And this is how interactions work to change policy and change culture as well. Im not saying we have all the power, but we certainly have our power, right . And trying to give that away just because we feel small or powerless, its not worthwhile. So, what other question does you have for me . Thanks for listening to some stories and thinking about a parents privilege for a little while. Yes. Dont worry about speaking sp the microphone is coming. Lets good like the past five to seven years a term that is common in pop lore culture i obesity epidemic. The medicalization of fat bodies and how its not that were concern but your appearance, its your health. So, i wonder if you could comment about that and how to sort of i guess deal with that for any lack of a better way to put that. I sure can comment. So, look, the obesity epidemic is an invention, at form of eugenics. There are a whole lot of illnesses that correlate with being fat. Theres a big difference between correlation and causation. Are you with me on this . So, the illnesses that core left with being fat are these same illnesses that correlate with other forms of social oppression. Theyre the same illnesses that correlate with racism, with lower social class, the same illnesses that correlate with any form of being ostracized in ones commune because were social animals, right . We need human interaction, we need to feel love and belonging. And so there is if you take a look at health at every size, for instance, as a movement of medical professionals, nutrition professionals that are really trying to look at what are the other factors that fly you know, like, whether or not you choose to eat the bacon or doughnut, that for most people is like five to 15 percent of how your health is actually affected and influenced. The rest is either genetic or environmental, including oppression. So, these are some of the things to talk about. But i realize this is even though this book is about 15 different kinds of intersectional oppression, fat is the one that people come back to again and again in and i mean im not trying to say you did it, too, but it is really on our minds, because its such a hard one to fight against. And fight against it we must, because you dont if get a pass for not treating people with basic dignity and respect, like this is something i think we dont internalize often enough. I really appreciate it ed what dr. Kennedy was saying in the session before this, about continuing to investigate where does racism live within each of us. This is all of us in the culture that we feel entitled to create hierarchy and put someone down. How do we use stories, our own and others, to stop creating hierarchy based on appearance and identity. Is that helpful. Yes. Other questions. Its gotten colder in the last hour. Im like my sweater is over there. The book i just recommended to you is by sabrina strings, hatred of the fat body, fear of the fat body. Youll remember her last name because it is strings and ive just done this with my hands. Also, a book called fat shame by amy farrell looks at the historical progression of fat hatred in the United States. So if you take a look at that, fatness used to be a sign of health that was associated with wealth, with beauty. But what now what happened in the United States with regard to slavery and colonization wishing didnt just enslave people and say we can do this because we have the power to do so. No, we said, theres something inferior about these people, and one of the thing that happened really significantly around the time of the Womens Suffrage Movement was that white women wanted to create a distance between themselves and women of color and the biggest way that was done in images and in advertising and in slogans for suffrage, was to create slender white way fishness. Even though obviously people come in a range of sizes regardless of what part of the world theyve come from , this is a very conscious thing to try to get the vote for women. Thats a little built if could say so much more but really there are other there are better resources than my book that will talk but that specifically, the ways that obesity and fat hatred are rooted in white supremacy. We have time for one more question if anyone has one. All right. Well, meese join me in thanking Kimberly Dark. Thank you. [applause] tonight on booktv in primetime, lou paper recounts the effort of the u. S. Ambassador to japan to seek a peace accord between the two countries prior to the attack on pearl harbor. University of massachusetts professor, holly jackson, profiles leaders of americas social and political movements of the 19 until century. Strickler cofounder of kick starter provides a blueprint for creating a better world. University of maryland Baltimore County president , shares hi insights on building an inclusive high achieving and ininnovative university. And Allen Dershowitz offers thoughts on how Sexual Misconduct accusations should be handled. That all starts tonight at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on booktv. You can find more information on your program guide, or by visiting booktv. Org. Booktv asked representative tom coal what are you reading. Reading a become buy an english author called apiecement. Chim berlin, hit
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