The George Washington institute for data, democracy and politics is hosting this forum. Live coverage on cspan2. Today we tackle another grade disinformation harm, election disinformation. We will have two very important panels. Offers will focus on foreign interference. The second panel will zero in on democratic integrity and Voter Suppression. These are vitally important themes. They are both areas of urgent and serious challenge threatening civil discourse and our democracy itself. We have to understand them, find ways to stop them, all apple for by social media. In between our panel will hear from stacey abrams, founder of fair fight 2020 and will describe the realities she is experienced and she is trying to confront. Were hosting is a series of forms impala with workshops hosted by the center for International Governance innovation on disinformation come online governments exploit domestic and International Governance. Our series is held in cooperation with members of the International Grant committee on disinformation. Thats a consortium of legislators from around the world working to protect consumers and voters from social media disinformation. Im frank says no with the institute for data, democracy and politics at gw, director of gw school and media fares for it is based. I will be a moderator the much of my job today will also be your timekeeper to keep his remarkable speakers that we have on time so everybody can have an opportunity to participate. A the topic were examining tody should matter to every citizen who cares about liberty and democracy. Hostile foreign powers, we know this are using social media platforms to undermine out elections, so discord and confuse voters and try to drill the process. We sighed in 2016. Theres ample evidence this process continues. Despite all that we know big social media platforms that failed so far to curtail the inauthentic accounts and the exponential amplification of disinformation get we see it across the board. In many cases platform are aiding efforts to so division and doubt about the integrity of our election. They do that their policy, rules, algorithm and will be engaging that. We can do and some of the worlds leading experts to discuss this threat to democracy. We were first from several witnesses who will describe whether experienced on the receiving end of this poisonous flow disinformation. Witnesses include a world class investigative journalist, the head of an International Research agency that is been the vanguard spiting extreme, extremism and disinformation a line and then we will hear from distinguished panel of lawmakers, a very distinguished panel of lawmakers from around the world. Each an expert in their own right, each serving of the most influential echelons of government. So before i deduce our witnesses esteemed panelists, lets introduce our first topic which is foreign in government interference in elections with this short video. The fbi says potential for foreign interference is real. During the 2016 president election suspected russian operators created bots on twitter to promote hashtags like war against democrats, facebook is one common platform for russian trolls and bots which in 2016 used fake accounts to influence the u. S. Election. This is really nothing less than information warfare. Another type of warfare. There is no Government Intervention in place to prevent foreign ads, anecdotal evidence shows a already here targeting you ahead of the 2020 election. Though they start off as biased, research into a 16 shows their goal is to keep you from wanting to vote for anyone on election day. Now to our discussion. First let me say thank you for joining us on this virtual event. With technical problems, or was it but i dont think we will. We have this pretty well done. I do want to invite the journalists who have joined us as attendees to please put your question in at any time and we will seek to get you as many of those is a can after each has gone. Our panel of lawmakers will which will get two and a was adam schiff, chairman House Intelligence CommitteeSenior MemberHouse Judiciary Committee where he is incredibly grateful to have him and come him today and is expertise. Canadian abusers as minister in the government and president of the queens privy council. He has jurisdiction over Election Integrity in canada and one of Prime Minister trudeau is closest advisor and member of the European Parliament from estonia, there foreign minister of affairs, sorry, minister of Foreign Affairs at the height of the 26 election so she felt the Disinformation Campaign immensely. First, a journalist, author ad founder of online new site in the philippines now a major multimedia output. Maria was time persevere in 2018 for her efforts to fight fake news. Just to be sure she was convicted of cyber libel. Cyber libel in the philippines and an apparent retaliation of shining a light on corruption and government sponsored Disinformation Campaigns across social media in the philippines. She is freed on bail pending her appeal. Where extremely fortunate to have her and, of course, we very much supporting her efforts to preserve a free press, independent press in the philippines and fight disinformation. Another groundbreaker compound ceo of the institute for strategic dialogue, isp which provides indepth analysis on audience, networks and contents to both interpret and fight the threat of wild extremism. She is a backer to conflict resolution, expertise expertise and global extremist movements come Digital Information and Disinformation Campaigns and electoral in fluence influence. I want to turn to start with maria, she happens to be former colleague of mine when were both at the scene in, so absolutely delight to see you. Were looking forward to hearing your take on this issue so its a great pleasure to turn over to you now. Frank, thanks a lot. Thanks for inviting me today. Im going to go through this relatively quickly. Weve been going through this for four years and it does start with the information were, with in our case facebook. Because 100 of filipinos on the internet are on facebook. Facebook is essential. Then we have twitter. [inaudible] in 2016 i told america that keep track of whats happening to us because was happening in the philippines is your distant future. Fastforward formatters and a quickly go through that. In 2016 the messages were seated on social media first. President duterte one in 2016. [inaudible] the weaponization of social media again soon after that. By july of 2016. The message at least in our case was journalists equals criminalist. That was in 2016. Exponentially pounded when we came out with challenges to the impunity of the drug were, to the impunity of Information Operations or influence operations we were pounded. And ill show you some of that happen in the philippines. I think keep in mind this one thing, that the goal of Information Operations are influenced operations, is not just to flood you with lies but also to target people, to target their minds, what theyre thinking it to change the way they behave. So what happened in the philippines, let me show this to you. Im going to just this was in let me pull this up. So this was in may of 2017, and i i just want to show you how the government at that point had seated this hash out a rest maria ressa. I wasnt resident of february 2019. That is what exponential lies try to do. It almost acts like fertilizer in this case all the biggest do a story about President Trumps call to president duterte. It looks really ridiculous right now when you look at it but i think the time that i was watching this. From there it jump hashtag arrest maria ressa jumped to lets make it move. Its not moving. Hold on a second. Sorry about that. There it is. So from there it jump to twitter where called her to the senate and then it jump to a real person. I can spell an arrest. My arrest didnt happen until two years later. The shutdown order we received in janet 2018 document after that, and then it moves into gender section was attack. Maybe its to become the ultimate porn star in a gang bang. Its not but this is what was seated and again look, this goes to real people, young men, picture maria ressa gets quickly martial law was on. It would bring joy to my heart. This guy was a student at a college and university. Here is what happened when you exponentially pound a fractional into society society. In our case it was attacking the media, attacking. We kept track of it by the data. I draw your eyes to may 2016. Thats when president duterte was elected. If you see the red lines become more solid with repetition. By july of 2016 thats our drug war in full speed. You can see that we are under attack, and the more and more and more and more, these are just hosts happening. Its a solid line. This is how when you say ally when million times you make it the fact. Through the social platform, lies spread faster than really boring fact. This is the database to put together. We challenge the impunity upfront. The drug were of the filipino government and the Information Operation, silicon valley, facebook, the kind of impunity that was happening here. We published a threepart propaganda war series. I wrote two of the three parts. The first was weaponizing the internet. The second was how facebook algorithms impact democracy. This was in 2016, and the third was manufactured consensus, how 26 date accounts could influence up to 26 million. This is what happened in octobey published it. When it turns red it means the average reposting is more than ten times. We zoom in on this facebook account because this account was attacking every major news paper. It is just cut and paste. Turn left at the facebook pages where it was seating, was cutting and pasting this. And if you look, the facebook pages from the election have not been weaponized, its the Duterte Campaign pages as well as the martial law campaign. This is where this is in 2017 may i ask you to take about another minute to some of because well need to move to our next witness. My apologies to that. I will end with this one. He was at the network that attacked journalists, activists, human rights activists and opposition politicians. Its the same network so segment ties that each one of the notes you see actually target by demographics, the middle class, the mass base, and the one person for the motherland. These of the last attacks and this is the last thing i saw that before i came to you. This is using my color, my sex and my facial features. When this is seated on facebook at home happens in the comments section and they turn into being an animal from normally the caption here is i was given a report whoever captures the spirit ive gone from being every animal being threatened with rape and death to being a no. She is not the victim. This is two weeks ago when i was convicted, but you can also look at how they made my skin much, much worse. Because i have a topic dermatitis, eczema, really dry skin and it made a whole new they call me scrotum face in the next one, just a second. I didnt filter this up for you because of what you see what i see every morning. It comes from here. This is seated on facebook and allowed to stay for periods of, chunks of time. Its not excellent for me so want you to see the impact. From there it goes just to this last one, frank. This is the film that was done about 1000 cuts and you can see can they doctored of photo and it is evil. It has evolved to this. This has a page. It is allowed to stay on facebook and its even marked by the page. Maria, i want to i want to thank you. I want to thank you for the courage that you have managed to keep about you throughout all of this, the way that you are sharing with us in the world. And it is so important that we see exactly what is happening, exactly what people have to endure, and this is what is eroding our sense of decency, our civil discourse at our democracies themselves. Thats what we are here today. Let return next and will come back, maria, to you. I know our panelists and congressman schiff will have some comments that would be relevant. Lets turn to sasha now, our next witness. Sawchuk, its yours. Forgive me. M unmuted . You are with us now. Thank you so much. Frank, thank you. Im honored to be here and had to say listening to maria, it is a depressingly familiar set of activities that we see on a very regular basis. Its a terrible thing to see of course this play out in very personal ways that weaponization of hate is absolutely part of the tactical playbook we see across the board these days. You asked me a little bit about what i and my team have seen to our Competition Analysis of platform manipulation, of Information Operation targeting election over the past four years. In particular the work weve done across europe. I know we have limited time. I should say just within the scope of the European Parliamentary elections i see partners of ours working in this space. We were able to identify some 19 coordinated and authentic Disinformation Campaigns. We are a small team of researchers, and it just gives you something about this is a tip of the iceberg. Theres too much to go into in terms of the detail of all that but i but i thought i would lay out [inaudible] that we see in relation to the actress epley a play in the assumptions we make about actors, the tools and the tactics that are deployed by those actors, and the target of their activity. So very quickly come on the actors. 2016 in in a way was the penny dropping for western about we were asked to go and find more of that. But in reality what we found was a much more complex picture in terms of the actors apply, and that playbook that was associated with the kremlin was deployed by absolutely there are many states in this space, but also nonstate actors, an array of transnational and domestic extremist groups and movements, special interest groups, International Activist groups and, of course, [inaudible] in a number of cases having to do with so we need to be thinking about measures the line between foreign and domestic is increasingly blurred. The line between states and nonstate is increasingly blurred. This is again not to say that absolutely. Were you have an interplay between overt kremlin disinformation and transnational extremist mobilization in the interest of supporting a political party, their objective. You have covert activities that we are and so on the state side of the challenge that are questions that we have. Of course there are many factors to which state actors operating, through state executed directly campaigns, through directed or coordinated campaigns, through state incited or fueled campaigns, state a leveraged or endorsed activities. These are extremely difficult to get a sense of. Just in the uk elections, for instance, we chose to identify what was this after modi made his announcement of support for the conservative party in the lead up to the uk election. We saw a flurry of accounts established which were antimuslim and protory party targeting indian committees in the united kingdom. These sorts of activities are difficult to identify. Is it foreign . Is it may i ask you, saucy, one minute to conclude please . So i will just go want to say, a Domestic Networks that are often not addressed as vigorously our grant for manipulation. [inaudible] we need to be understanding this increasingly authorities Domestic Networks, sometimes seemingly political networks. We need to be like that. On the tactics and on the target, of the tactics i should just say were looking for outright fakery [inaudible] counter coordinated accounts, hashtag hijacking. The media simple taken out of context. This is legitimate sources of media twisted and taken out of context to manipulate the audience. Its really important because it requires a different kind of responsiveness. In a way were in narrative or for rather than outright information worker. Finally, the targets. The target is not just elections and while we seem direct electoral manipulation in form of particular taxon opposition, politicians, women, minority, candidates are absolutely directly under consistent campaign coordinated attack. We also see campaigns for mounting of those do we saw that in germany. We saw that in sweden. The approach information preparation of electoral fraud narrative prior to the elections that really took off. Were seeing some of that of course start to plant in the u. S. But its a bigger thing. This is about the exploitation of wage issues to polarize our society. We see the weaponization of hate and also we see the targeting of wedge issues like migration increasingly climate. In order to polarize communities in a longrange sense. The electoral insights we get for disinformation are a window into longerrange efforts, essentially political efforts to divide momentum around political opinion and behavior. So let me take focus on the wider issue for going to get hit of the curve. Theres a lot to focus on, and is use it comes to many places but thank you very, very much for that. And you maria had teed up in a very clear and compelling and urgent way the panel that we now turn to an expert we now turn to you, adam schiff as an agent earlier has been unbelievably generous with his time today has been. Senior member of the House Judiciary Committee. As you know he served as the chief manager in the house of representatives in the impeachment inquiry into President Trump which deals a lot with this whole information of foreign interference, disinformation, misinformation and elections. Thank you so much for being too. I cant think of them are urgent issue as a think about we are are and where were going in this country, and around the world, and i will turn over to you now for your remarks in some engagement with our witnesses. Frank, thank you very much. Its an honor to join you today and to be in such distinguished company. Sasha and maria, thank you so much for your presentations, but for the work that you do each and every day. And maria, its a particular honor to see you or me to buy virtual forum. I cofounded and cochair a caucus on the freedom of the press which i started 15 years ago with a backbencher from indiana named mike pence. And we have been highlighting your case and how the Philippine Government is targeting you and trying to censor you and using their criminal process to do so. And we will continue to raise the profile of that so that the Philippine Government understands the great interest and concern that congress has over what theyre doing to suppress the freedom of the press. I thought just to kind of organize my thinking on this for today i would talk briefly about what foreign powers are doing through social media, what domestic actors are doing on social media and with the platforms themselves are doing, and but i but i should point the outset that social media is only one vector of influence. In 2016, for example, although we saw yes, an extensive and schismatic social Media Campaign by russia to interfere in our election and our democracy we also saw them engage in the hacking and dumping operation. And there are other cyber tools that we also need to be on the lookout for. One that concerns me a great deal is the improvements in the ai Generator Technology of deep fakes where you can produce highly authentic looking but utterly fraudulent video or audio, and inserted into the social media bloodstream. We saw a crude version, achieve fake last year with a doctor city of Speaker Pelosi that was slowed down, and the picture was raised to make it seem like she was drunk or impaired. I had a hearing in the Intelligence Committee of the use of this new technology and how disruptive it may become md asked the experts at 10 Million People saw that doctored video of the speaker how many million that you reasonably predict what elderly find out that that video, that have been doctored . The expert entered the you be like if one or two they of the 109090 that found that it had been changed. Psychologists will tell you even among those that learned that what they seem is not real, or has been altered, they may never completely lose the lingering negative impact of what they have seen. So the damage is done once you view it. These are some of the new tactics and tools that malicious entities may use but in terms of the focus on social media, i think sasha and maria were outlining, in 2016 the russians had a few objectives. Yes they wanted to help Dollar Company wanted to hurt Hillary Clinton what more broadly they wanted to divide our society along well known fault lines of race, ethnicity, orientation, immigration status, a Second Amendment right, but they also wanted to cause americans to distrust their own democracy. And this remains i think a central objective as we go into the 2020s elections of foreign powers but particularly russia. We may see other bad actors involved with. We may see the iranians. We may see rival powers like china and north korea and others, but the predominant concern that i have in terms of election interference and meddling is still russia. And there are new and even deeper fault lines for them to play upon. The pandemic is i think the fault line of all fault lines, but in terms of the russians capacity to cause americans to distrust their own democracy is probably no more Fertile Ground than the ground that our president has ceded. This gets the point size was making, and that ground being whether the votes of millions and millions of americans who cast their vote by absentee ballot can be discredited. And this foundation that the president is laying and now the attorney general our own attorney general has given further seed to enjoy an open invitation for malignant powers to exploit, to amplify this false message that you cant rely on votes cast by absentee. And if we have a close election, the doubt that a foreign hostile power can create by amplifying that false message could be quite disastrous. Now one thing that we saw in the midterms, although we got only a small sample, is that its not just for an bad actors we need to be concerned about. It is also domestic bad actors. And it did in the midterms we saw some domestic bad actors begin to experiment with the same kind of falls flag operation that the russians perfected in 2016 false. We now see the russians doing a better job to try to camouflage and high their hand, working through third countries like ghana. We cant rely on them exploiting the same ip addresses in st. Petersburg that has such a clear home address. But we also now need to be concerned about domestic bad actors imitating and amplifying the work of hostile foreign powers. And then finally of course there is not just what foreign powers are doing on the platforms, not just what domestic bad actors are doing on the platforms with the platforms are doing on the platforms. And last week we had a hearing with representatives of three of the Major Technology companies, and we began by asking whether they are observing, this was a open hearings on able to discuss it, what are they observing agenda foreign interference. But a great portion of hearing moved to a very different issue, and this was sorely harkening back to something i raised in 2017 when the Intelligence Committee was would among the very first to look into this issue, not just of foreign interference of what the platforms themselves were doing. And in 2016 after exploring what foreign powers were doing i asked representatives of the companies whether they thought their platforms were having the effect of dividing the american public, pitting americans against other americans, of vulcanizing our access to information. And i remember the chief legal officer because the companies viewed this as a legal threat more than anything else at that point in 2017, where facebook said the jury were still out on that question, whether the algorithms were having that impact. Now, i dont think the jury was still in 2017 but it is definitely come back then it was out even at that time. I returned to the subject as did many members during the hearing, and asked them in particular as facebook where among the priorities in their algorithm do they place amplification of engagement . That is, the content that is able to titillate or anger or create fear among its users, the potential for morality . What is a place that among their priorities, is at the top priority, the last priority . What is truth fitting in the hierarchy of values that is simplified by the algorithm . The answer will not surprise you, is i cant tell you. Now, ive have to get back to you. Now, whether thats because the chief Technology Officers dont know the answer or they are not authorized to show the answer, i think is far more likely to be the latter given their seniority in the companies. But this to me as one of the most pressing challenges facing the world right now is how we get our information. Because i think the revolution of social media is every bit as destructive as the invention of the printing press, and wait centuries they get used to that innovation and weve had years to get used to this one. It will take us i think a considerable amount of time to figure out how to deal with this innovation. Maria, i can well relate although not to the extent that you have to the phenomenon you described, as ive been similarly demonized and caricatured and subject to threats and watched the powerful amplification of the discord online amplified by our own version of either statement or oligarch run media. And i can only imagine what you face. But as you wrote in the l. A. Times a couple years ago, what is happening and as happen in the philippines may be a tire warning about what is possible here, embracing all too much of that come to fruition since you wrote that. So these are very pressing issues around the world, and ai guess to start off the discussion, maria, let me ask you. Theres a lot of debate and discussion within the tech companies, within cometary and experts about commentary about whether the social media environment i give such currency to falsehood, and certain kinds of falsehood that appeal to our tribal instincts and produce fear and loathing is advantageous in the way that the algorithms function, to those that harbor the most extreme views. Sachse, you probably have a sense of this given under work on the issue as well. Do you think this structure actually has the effect of amplifying that kind of xenophobic nationalist ideas, is this giving a far greater currency to the far right, or do you see it as sort of an equal opportunity malevolent influencer that affects extreme views of all kinds . I think that this is a behavioral modification system, and bad behavior is rewarded in this one. In fact, the old scene built in cash but im not the first to say this. Im sure youve heard this from the designers themselves that into the platforms by one decision which is when the platforms decided that theyre going to grow using the idea of friend to friend. The way display that in the philippines is while we were all in the center really not that meeting with the facts are, we were all here. As you pointed out you pound the line society. In our case it was the poor versus the rich, right . Oligarchs versus the rest everyone else. When you pounded this, if you used that platform using friends of friends, lets say pro duterte and antitranfour. If i protrude for for animal talking to friends and friends and on the kind of growth just by growing my friends like the, like attracts like, you move further to the right wing antiduterte move further to the left. Later still be know when youre and give mood barmore, made more radical artifacts and sells are switched because we become more radical. I see that same thing playing out in the united states. If i could follow up with you on that because thats really interesting point but particularly interesting in light of the policy change, if, that may be too strong to describe it, but facebook has been suggesting that theyre going to move more towards a model that emphasizes sharing with family and friends and away from a model based on pure virality. But he seems to me what youre suggesting is if you move even further in the direction of sharing with friends and family, that may actually create its own or widen its own divide. Thats been a few years that Mark Zuckerberg and facebook upset that i actually think my eliminating news, by illuminating the facts and you wind up this, you trust your family and friends more but if you are to the right youre going to move further to the right because youre like attracts like and do not see the use of the left. In the past we can all i think the model itself, the design of social media platforms encourages extreme, extreme thinking. It moves you further to the right to the left, further to the edges. Also breaks it all of those conspiracy theories and the way that went news groups with the gatekeepers wouldnt have been allowed. And i could just say maria, and im sure you have experienced this too far greater degree than i have, when i travel are used to travel prepandemic i would notice over the last several years the reaction of a get would be more and more extreme, both for and against me. People would come up to me in rapid succession. The first thing are you adam schiff . I just want to shake your hand, youre my hero. Immediately thereafter some commitment saying youre not my hero. You lie all the time. Why did you lie all the time . And i could tell okay, i know what this person is watching and reading to i know what this person is watching and reading and is not the same thing because i am the same person. But sasha, if i could ask you because if i recall youve done a significant amount of work on countering environment extreme as is an of wonder whether you see countering violent extremism and water what makes social youre such a potent force for recruiting of that kind of content with the kind of election interference and other malevolent activity online that you are focused on right now. And if i may, it is frank, everybody, just to watch the clock, ask for a brief response they will move on. Thank you. When we first started to track extremists content and operations online, we were looking at ways in which we could counter them by mobilizing counter speech. Outcompete bad ideas with good ideas would be a good idea except what we found over time was the Playing Field wasnt level. There tilted in the interest of extreme messaging. It is agnostic as to the extreme but it is proextreme, protitillating, prosensationalist messaging, which is to say the result is that we are driven in mechanically into these more polarized environments. That to some extent accounted for the massive liberation of hate and extremist content online, on all sides it is still prevalent. The real challenge is we have plenty of anecdotal evidence but nobody has access except for the platforms to the data in order to verify what the algorithmic outcome is, in fact, in relation to these harms. We desperately need thirdparty review of the system, and real robust transparency and oversight that govern the information flow. The focus has been in content and content removal which is not the right face. The focus needs to be on the recommendation, duration and moderation system used by the platform, both algorithmic and human so we continually understand what the impact is on our society. We need to have that data in order to be able to right now neither governments nor the Research Community has access to that data. I want to thank you all. Chairman schiff, before we moved to canada, at your hearing last week speedy we may all be moving to candidacy. I hope not. But at your hearing last week you had some words, and i watched and i read it carefully, you call this a dangerous and unprecedented state of affairs and you proceeded and your colleagues to talk to the major, two representatives from the major social media platforms. We determine what sasha laid out about what we really need. Did you get any sense at that hearing last week that they are determined, focused, properly recognizing their responsibilities and moving in these directions . I cant say that i got that sense from the hearing. It wouldve had to be a pretty remarkable hearing it there with that kind of transformation. I did get the sense that theres something going on at twitter, that may be, you know, weve reached the last straw for what the management of twitter can take in terms of what they are seeing, how the platform is being used. I dont know. But i still get the sense that facebook will need to be pulled and dragged into this era of corporate responsibility. The economic incentives are simply too powerful for continuation of the status quo. And until proven otherwise i have the sense with respect to Google Youtube that their strategy is to avoid the scrutiny of the other platforms and disclose as little as possible. It is i guess not unlike, although im sure they will not appreciate this analogy, the president you that if you dont test it, there is no virus. If they dont discuss it, if they dont reveal it, there is no problem. Nothing i guess from the hearing shook of those impressions, but time will tell. Let me just say that in our first forum where Speaker Pelosi joined us, she called for Major Companies to bring their economic power and leverage to bear on facebook. They started to do that, so employees internally or learning about an awful lot also that facebook has gone a long to get along to continue to make a lot of money. But there do appear to be some new pressures. Lets turn north now to canada and dominic, a canadian member of parliament and has jurisdiction over Election Integrity in canada. I want to bring his closest advisor, minister there. Minister, thank you very much for taking your time to be with us today and i want to turn the floor over to you for a few minutes for your response to what you have heard. So, well, thank you, frank. I give her much rather me at thanks to George Washington university, the International Grant committee which is done extraordinary work in the figures it is been in existence, and the center for International Governance innovation for the invitation to participate and engage in this conversation this morning. Its a privilege to be on a panel with chairman schiff but also to bear from our distinguished witnesses. Frank, a democracy that health and election lesson you go canada knows full well as many of the country to the challenges involved in securing and preserving democracies sacred act, the right of every citizen of voting age to cast an informed ballot in a in a freed fair vote. Every free and fair democratic election is worthy, worthy of the name, is going to be, in our view, necessarily roughandtumble. That comes with being a mature democracy. But weve also seen how hostile state and nonstate actors use Information Technologies to manufacture reality. Fake news not only masquerades as the truth, it masquerades as legitimate political debate. Trolls and bots are dispatched to stoke anxiety, and in some cases inflame debate around sensitive issues. Their main goal as noted is chaos. We have seen many of these elements point out right now in real time in the covid19 pandemic. These are exactly the kinds of issues that play that people play on to propagate disinformation in order to fragment our society, to erode public trust in democratic processes and institutions as well. Where closely monitoring these events as a know many of our friends and partners around the world are doing as well, especially those of you who were in election mode right now. And i look to chairman schiff and his colleague as examples in the coming months. Its obviously not my place to comment on the conduct of campaigns or elections in other countries, but i but i believet some of the measures that canada took to enhance the protection of our election in october 2019 may contain some useful elements for those looking at models in terms of how to proceed in the coming months and years. In january of last year, januarf canada real estate comprehensive fourpoint plan to stick with the upcoming election. This plan which of approved by the Prime Minister and by our cabinet mobilize expertise from ten Government Departments but also look beyond government, institutions to work with media, other Political Parties, and canadas independent Election Administration body, and to harness the resources and expertise of Civil Society as well. Academia and the private sector, including social media platforms themselves. Canadas experience is that it takes the whole of government and whole of society effort to effectively combat disinformation. The first part of this plan focused on enhancing citizen preparedness. Because the strongest defense against threats to democracy is an engaged and informed citizenry. And, therefore, a resilient public indeed, citizens in our view can be come with the right tools and awareness, the best bulwark against disinformation. This includes in our case establishing a digital since Citizens Initiative to improve the digital and Civic Literacy of canadians so they can recognize online fraud, disinformation, and manipulation. Essentially helping the information ecosystem come to some extent, to self cleanse. We also asked our intelligence agencies to take a new innovative approach by conducting a public assessment of threats to our democratic processes. The first of its kind we believe in the world. This helped to sensitize canadians the possible threats on the ground but to be forewarned is to be forearmed. And we created something called a critical election incident public protocol. That sounds like a bureaucratic mouthful but it basically is a simple, quick, and impartial process for alerting and informing canadians of threats to the integrity of our election. The second thing we did is plan to improve organizational readiness. I dont just mean securing or strengthening security practices by improving the whole of government coordination to identify threats, emerging tactics and vulnerabilities to our systems. As part of these measures we introduced cybersecurity Technical Advice and classified threat briefings to other Political Parties and their leadership. The third element was combating and the topic of todays discussion, combating foreign interference. We set up a security and intelligence threat to Elections Task force, composed of key actors across the canadian intelligence and National Security community to improve awareness of foreign threats and to support assessment and response. We also leverage the g7 Rapid Response mechanism to strengthen our nation amongst our g7 partners so we could monitor in a malicious actors in the social media space, and respond to those threats. The fourth and final part of our plan was making it clear that we expected social platforms to act as well. This is entirely consistent with the comments of chairman schiff a few minutes ago. We have frank and sometimes public discussions with the platforms which led to the development of the canada declaration of Election Integrity online. With the support of microsoft, facebook, twitter and google. The declaration established a common understanding about the responsibilities of social Media Companies and governments to combat disinformation as well as the concrete actions needed to increase transparency, authenticity and integrity on the platforms themselves. Could ask you to try to take about another minute or two and then wrap up. Was of course, frank. I will be as brief as i can. Of course with the threat that is caused to evolving no country can stand still so we are hard at work evaluating these initiatives, what worked and what didnt work as well as we wouldve liked in 2019 in order to ensure that we are ready for the next National Election when it comes about so, frank, thats why i was pleased to announce that canada has stepped up be one of the three leaders alongside with microsoft and the alliance for securing democracy on counting election interference. This is part of my colleagues will know of the paris call for trust and security in cyberspace. Cyberspace. So with that said, frank, perhaps i could pose a question to our witnesses. I was interested in the algorithmic question that 2027488203 race and that you raised. So maybe perhaps i could ask our witnesses who are very, very compelling example of leadership in this difficult, in this difficult see your come if we that perhaps 50 of oecd countries has experienced some extent a foreign interference in our elections . Perhaps the witnesses could share what canada and other countries could do to learn from each other and to better collaborate as we all prepare our Democratic Institutions to be more resilient, and our citizenry to be more informed. What can we do in terms of sharing and understand each others contacts that might help our democratic partners around the world . Thanks, frank. Saw shaken do you want to go first saw shot. I would say, thank you, thank you. I think its very fundamental in the sense that if we dont have facts, which is where the platforms have placed us, when journalist, to the tech platforms, the tech platforms took it but they abdicated responsibility. Without the facts we can have integrity of election. Its a myth that there is essentially that we dont have facts. We can of anything. I think one solution and this is an upcoming book by along with other academics who have done at least one of them from university of toronto which is pushing the platforms to have both user for the delivery of data, data portability, and social network portability. So that this way there is incentive, actually would happening right now, theres now an incentive, a business considered to protect the users. Our problem is right now all of the incentives have been pushing platforms towards growth but not to protect users. If we dont feel protected we can lose the move the platform together and ill think of, you even have to use antitrust regulation to do that, and then you can then level the Playing Field in terms of of the new social media platforms. Is that what you are asking . Thats very helpful. Thank you very much. We had some questions from journalists who are part of this event today and im going to turn those two chairman schiff and you, minister. Just real quick. Just to say i think we are watching the canadian effort, works to impress and it went a long way in mitigating some of the works weve seen in other places. But number one, without access to the data to verify thirdparty verification of the data, its hard to know what was what was the extent of success of the platform own response to these kinds of Information Operations. We just dont have that data. We would like to see that data provided either to regulatory bodies set up by governments or two independent Research Bodies, obviously notwithstanding the challenges around data privacy. They need to be respected. The second thing in terms of sharing experiences internationally, one of the big problems is Government Agencies and International Agencies set up to look at this issue are really largely circumscribed in their focus around foreign state, hostile state actor disinformation activities. The reality is that there is a dance between state actor nonstate actor and domestic actor disinformation. They piggyback off of each other. Other. Without being able to go from looking at foreign state and then chase it into these more complex spaces, we are missing a beat. I think their partnerships that can be had with some society or innovations with Research Bodies that can help to complete that picture. Some of that has been quite interestingly done by the g7 in reaching out to Research Partners we have done some with them but there is a real need to create a data central were restored work off the same in terms of understanding the type of research would you will be able to do with it. Being able to share that data, not use blackbox technology but really work on this and offering for the civic and government sectors, social science sort of standard of quality and, very important to get that data. In the same way that for instance picking up the Global Internet forum on counterterrorism in that domain we need it for the disinformation space to thank you very much. I appreciated, thanks very much frank. You said there were journalists that had sent questions . I think you are muted. Ive had a few technical glitches at this and so bear with the gremlins as i say congressman, are you still there and mark is the congressman there . Im still here. Theres a question for you from a correspondent from abc news. Your democratic colleague nancy pelosi said this month advertisers must use their pressure to pressure platforms on the false information. She spoke about that here. She asks and catherine asks what do you think can be done ahead of the elections to force platforms to take action on this information . I think the first step is much more oversight of the nature that we had last week but other committees that have more of a Regulatory Power over the tech companies. For intel obviously are paramount lane is dealing with foreigninterference. The broader problem in my view is the impact of these algorithms are having in terms of selling division and getting these foreign powers such for child tools to work with, powerful tools to work with so i think oversight and you know, a serious look at whether their community under section230 needs to be changed. Whether we need to intervene in terms of the way they are designing their algorithms to amplify this extremist content and this divisive impact. So i do think that congress ought to look at whether legislative remedies are necessary and of course we want to make sure we avoid doing harm in this area but if the platforms arent going to step up and meet their social responsibility in Congress Needs to think about how we can either incentivize or insist on a different and more societally beneficial form of regulation because the kind of wild west environment we have online right now is just reading rampant disinformation, division without our own society and i think poses a real threat to the markers hes around theworld. Its so clear that is the case and just getting worse as we see the polarization and pulling for the extreme. Very briefly last question for you, this is from one of the journalists joining us wondering if you could elaborate on specific examples of what you suggested with this information effort in canada in regard to covid19 and we got to take a break before we get ready for the next segment here. Thank you frank. As i said its a perfect example of how malicious actors can spread this information. Weve seen online and im sure my colleagues have seen it as well information indicating that for example certain practices, unhealthy practices will give you an immunity from covid19 and there was one article saying if youre a smoker youre less likely or not it covid19 so it was encouraging people to take up smoking and theres a whole series of these kind of disinformation efforts to divide society, some of it outright holding and some of it racist hate speech that weve seen in canada against certain communities but thats the way we think frank is an optimized our citizens, inoculate our citizens to understand the effects ofthis disinformation. We use some public funds to help Civic Society members elicit campaign of awareness around disinformation at top governments that he be doing this, its academia, its double society can play a great role and maybe we can learn from others including our american neighbors but citizens and partners around the world. Thank you very much for your time and your observation. Congressman schiff thank you for taking busy time out of your day to be with us. Thank you to all of you. To sasha and maria, your work is so important and what youre doing really leads the way. All the best for you andgood luck, hanging in there and all the courage and the world. We will take a very quick break here and we will be back at 15 minutes past this hour with stacy abrams who will offer a keynote comment. On the campaign on the ground , to counter voter disinformation and Voter Suppression so we will be back in just a few minutes and thanks to all of our panelists and witnesses so far. A brief break in this discussion on digital disinformation and election interference. When they returned they will hear from georgia opener candidate stacy abrams who will talk about social medias role in spreading disinformation. This is hosted by the George Washington institute for data and politics and we will return to thislive for him in just a minute and in the meantime a discussion from washington journal. Democratic congressman hank johnson joins us via zoom, a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Good morning and i wonder what you think happens to the George Floyd Justice and policing now that its been passed by the house. Any expectation that this gets picked up by the senate or would be signed by the president . Unfortunately the grim reaper as he calls himself, Mitch Mcconnell has already said that hes not interested in ringing the George Floyd Justice in policing to the floor of the senate for consideration. And any response to democrats offering that paradigm shifting legislation, Mitch Mcconnell then assigned the task of coming up with a senate bill to senator tim scott who within a couple of days came up with a weak product that fails to hold Police Accountable thats what the senate wants to run with and unfortunately thats not the solution to this problem everyone knows exists. So i guess there is still hope that the George Floyd Justice in policing. Havent given you but we got along quite ahead. Why would that senate bill likens the, why couldnt it be a place to start from or build on . It unfortunately only call for studying the issue and it offers no accountability measures. So really, the proper framework would be a more comprehensive George Floyd Justice in policing. Thats really the starting point because it deals with the universe, the entire universe of problems that will once they are solved by this legislation result in accountability for Police Officer and a change in the culture of policing. Unfortunately the tim scott legislation does not put forward any proposals that would begin to address the problem so starting from his proposal just doesnt make sense. Nothing from nothing leads nothing. Start from the house version and if the senate was serious , they would want to look at those provisions and then work with democrats from there. The stock militarizing Law Enforcement act, what is that and does the George Floyd Justice and policing act deal with what you set out todo in that act . Yes it does and in fact the George Floyd Justice and policing act incorporates the language of the stock militarizing Law Enforcement act which would ban the transfer of military grade weaponry to state and local and also federal Law Enforcement agencies. Because of that pipeline of surplus equipment, surplus military weapons grade equipment flowing directly from the battlefield to the streets of our country, weve seen eight militarization of our Police Departments and with that physical armaments, with those physical armaments it brings about a more of a warrior mentality. That our local state and local Law Enforcement officers take on. It becomes an us against them occupier versus protector, destroyer versus someone who comes into the neighborhood to protect and serve people. So that kind of attitude those kinds of weapons are no longer what the public wants and the public are the ones that the police are there to protect and serve. So the public, we the people have input into how we should be policed. And if people dont like the way that it has gone over the years with this influx of military, militarism into our Police Departments and onto our streets. Didnt we tried to stop militarizing the police after ferguson . I filed legislation back in 2014 after the nations saw militarized Police Responding to peaceful demonstrators on the streets of ferguson missouri. It shocked the conscience to see that. And that legislation has been filed each session of Congress Since then. And it is only at this point that we have had a vehicle under which we could get this legislation passed because even though it has, even though the stop militarizing Law Enforcement act had accumulated almost 75 signatures on its own, standalone was inflation, but still was not enough to get through the house but linking it with the Georgefloyd Justice and policing has gotten the job done so im very gratified about that. Talking with congressman hank johnson, democrat from georgia and member of the House Judiciary Committee that the george floyd this and policing act came through to get to the house floor yesterday and passed yesterday 236 to 181, three republicans joining. We are welcoming casey abrams to this conversation and were hosting these discussions in conjunction with workshops hosted by the center for National Governments and cooperation with the International Grant committee on disinformation. 80 abrams is a former minority leader of the georgia house, under a fair fight, shes broken so many glass ceilings including being the first woman to lead either party in the georgia gym general assembly, first africanamerican woman to win a gubernatorial nomination in georgia and her leadership, is advocating for many things, Fair Elections in georgia, Voter Education, for participation on election reform at all levels. Voter suppression a tactic used by foreign and domestic actors , you heard about foreign interference in the Previous Panel now 80 abrams will talk about the insidious use of social media to discourage voting. Intimidate wouldbe voters, spread lies about when and where and how to. So stacy, thank you so much for being with us. We are grateful for your time and we handed over to you, the floor is yours. And you are muted. There you go. That will help welcome. Thank you to the institute and thank you so much frank or the invitation and for the kind introduction. In 2016 we saw unprecedented levels of misinformation and disinformation passed about our election and while there are a number of case studies that explore how devastating this is, cant begin to understand what it will mean in 2020. Once we think about the communities that are often the target of these misinformation campaigns. Particularly in light of Voter Suppression taking on an urgency that has been growing the last 20 years has reached a fever pitch each year being led by misinformation coming from the president of the united states. The right to vote is the cornerstone of our democracy. It is how we lift up our voices and how we declare our choices for leadership and in a democracy it is essential that we are able to select representatives will understand our challenges, who reflect our values or the very least respect that we are all americans deserving of service and support. And right now we face triple threats of covid19 having an Economic Impact as an economic collapse continues to weigh heavily on communities of public prices that only seems to be getting worse with each day and we had a justice crisis in america, one that is bringing people into the street every single day around this country and around the world and these are not going to disappear by november. We have 10 people as they march, we have admonished them and in fact encouraged them to know that protest is only part of the solution. Voting is the other part of the equation , that protesting in the streets have to be met with protest at about box. We know those who are facing covid19, their communities and neighborhoods and states are going to require a resurrection and a recovery that we have not seen before given the unprecedented economic collapse and the seemingly relentless pursuit of unfortunately lack of actual response from the white house and from our federal administration and so into this vacuum we walk democracy. Knowing that the 20 20 elections are going to set the table for a recovery looks like, what justice looks like and what the next decade and next century looks and we also have to add to that conversation the 20 20 census and census are often seen as a separate component to how our democracy operates as an essential component in the 2020 elections because lets be clear, were not simply running the 2016 review of an election. Running a review of the 2010 election, and election that transformed the face of this country is when we reapportioned our congressional representation and when we start to redraw the political line that governs voting or a decade so we have to not only talk about the issues of misinformation through social media about Voter Suppression, we have to think about what means for good information about the census and unfortunately from the top of the ticket, from the top of our government have seen misinformation campaigns that have crippled and undermined to vital part of ourdemocracy. But sadly that information, that misinformation has been allowed to run a lot by facebook and by other social media platforms. We have seen in recent days and in recent months having an flagging things as leaving untrue but what we have to remember is we have so many people entering the station, folks that did not see themselves as active voters in 2016, but they had no information only to discover the morning after november 7 they had been misled and we need to understand and we need to understand these voters get most of their information not only about elections but daily life from social media platforms and therefore it is incumbent on social media to take responsibility for the authority they do control and authority they wield. We know that just recently Mark Zuckerberg announced they intended to make a better sand and to do better by the people especially when it comes to issues of race. They have pledged to respond to the stop hateful Profit Campaign. Sadly was 11 minutes of problem with very little action because as long as information continues to flow without context and certainly without truth, it is not going to solve the problem and yes, there has been a complete, theres an acknowledgment that they will spend the last 72 hours making sure that information doesnt get through but in the era of covid19, across the country voting starts almost 40 to 60 days ahead of election day. 72 hours cannot solve a problem when you have to vote by mail sweeping the country because it is the safest and most accessible way of voting so that the decisionsare based on information that is out today, tomorrow and waiting until three days before the election to finally take action is useless. But we also have to understand its not that information about the elections themselves, its about the issues driving the election so misinformation aboutprotests and Climate Action and the climate denial , misinformation about criminal justice reform, police brutality, those issues have to be met with accurate accurateinformation. We must hold social media platforms responsible because they are the single most effective conduit of information to some of the most vulnerable and least resilient voices in our democracy. Communities that are new to the process turn to social media for their information , misinformation as the death now affect on their actual and active participation in our democracy from the seemingly benign notion of getting wrong dates and wrong links to the more aggressive misinformation that lies and manipulates and tells people untruths about who they are and whattheyre committed to do. We appreciate the small steps that have been made but we as a nation must demand from social media that they meet this moment with the full might of their capacity. They are responsible for communication and that communication must be accurate and whether the purveyor is russia or the president of the united states, the credibility of their organization and credibility of our democracy is at risk if they do not take action immediately. Im happy to answer any questions. Apologies miss abrams but it appears frank is having technical difficulties at the moment so i am the incoming directorof the institute for data democracy and politics and my name is rebecca trumble and ill take over until frank is back with us. Id like to start by asking you to reflect on your experience running for office and how, tell us a bit about how youseen the landscape shift over time , particularly as it pertains to the disinformation thats being shared on social media platforms, how has it changed from your experience running for governor to what youre seeing today now as an advocate in this space. When i ran for office the first time it was 2006 and social media existed but it was not an integral part of campaigning and i do not believe we had a conversation about digital. The question about how much mail we were going to send out. Forward to my campaign for governor 12 years later and it was a very different landscape. Present a great deal of time and resources using Digital Media as a way to share information, particularly as a way to share Voter Education. Fragments that top but the Voter Education is a critical tool for democracy to work, particularly given how many new people are entering the process every day. George alone spent 2018 more than 750,000 new voters have registered for the first time in our faith and of that number, 45 percent are under the age of 30 and 49 percent of people of color red these are two communities rely heavily on social media not simply for communication across social platforms but were there news and for the information they use to guide their daily lives and so the challenge we saw in 2018 is only going to be amplified in 2020 which information is taken out of contests, it is falsified and ive read quotes that i have to remember, i dont think i said that the problem is that if i question myself, and imagine those who come to this with low information but with single sources of information and if thatsingle sourcing , is that use of the platform who should be considered an arbiter of truth, being unfortunately held not accountable for what they do and how they can indicatethat information. The danger we see in 2020 from the point of care and they are, which is an organization i started to focus on the senses is not simply misinformation. Misinformation undermines credibility but also undermines faith in the system. When you hear that if you tried to vote in a certain community, ice officers will come and you raise your family you understand if you fell off the census to issue a warrant againstyou for outstanding child support. We diminish the likelihood of people not only participating in our democracy but undermine their faith and why it matters to be a citizen all. Thats whats so deeply disturbing and we know that its happening at a rapid pace and not being addressed excessively. Im back i think. I do apologize to everybody. Misinformation campaign trying to pull you out . Im happy to blame anybody right now but i want to ask a serious question about the civil Rights Groups that have become increasingly critical of the social media platforms through racialized disinformation that is being projected as you say to discourage voting, to deceive people about when and how and where they vote. Really terrible things. Youre seeing inside social Media Companies themselves pressure from employees to do something about all of this. Im wondering how you view how you view the pressure that people of color can bring as employees and as consumers to these multibilliondollar platforms that are making so much money on all this. I think its a vital force of leverage and process. I am part of a number of organizations fighting for Environmental Justice and Environmental Action that has a clear racial lens on top of the other reasons, existential crisis that we face and we are deeply concerned about the attempt to use race to diminished anticipation and allergens or even in the environmental space. One of those challenges is making sure that groups, particularly communities of color and their platforms hold accountable those who would lie about what Environmental Justice means two communities of color or what Climate Action means to communities that face the highest level of not only polluted but the lowestlevels of actual response. We know when it comes to voter participation, one of the ways we are seeing some degree of change is that we do have employees that are making the stand and pushing for more challenges episodes to the lack of diversity that we see in these companies. Its harder to have an influence your numbers are so small. Do we have to see this as a holistic challenge for committees of color can be both primary or at least the leading voices, the tip of the spirit is a macro approach because unfortunately we do not have efficient levels of communities of color represented within these social platforms. How do you change that, how do you, if that is several questions, how you change it, how quickly do you change it and how to use use this leverage to bring pressure to bear now before it is changed fundamentally. I think the stockade for Profit Campaign is one of the wayswe do this and i look to , im so proud of the work the Leadership Conference for civil rights under the law , the work that color of change has done and the work that Sleeping Giant has done to encourage corporations to use their financial might on behalf of communities of color that we are in an Inflection Point moment in this country, talking about racial issuesand in ways we havent before so we have to be clear , thisis not going to change overnight. Its not going to change the while we maysee players action , the minute attention turned away likely that action is going to diminished. So part of the challenge is their happy deposit see of pressure brought to bear but that cannot rely solely on communities of color to do so. Because our ability to have influence is directly related to the ability of the Majority Community especially those in control resources in our country to also hold these socialmedia platforms accountable. Take us back to your run for governor and what you experienced on a receiving end of this disinformation, give us some sense it and whether and how was targeted to firsttime voters, minority voters, to disrupt your campaign and election. There were images that i have to present that were stage that are now seen as doubtful truth although there have been a number of checkers he said that didnt happen or she had nothing to do with it. There were quotes taken fully out of context and lets be clear, this information isnt new thecampaigns, its not new to politics. As part of the body politic since i assume the first debate was held in athens but the difference is the ability for those rumors those lies to spread at a lightning case. And to take on the tone of truth. With the ability to actually manipulate the Delivery System is not that something is, that is misinformation, its that looks like truth and it smells electric and it sounds like your and disproving it is almost impossible because youre often trying to chase goats, youre doing lacrimal in my campaign it was conversations about something i said taken out of context image of mine that was manipulated. Images that were fully manufactured and it had an effect. Luckily did not finish i think the enthusiasm for my candidacy it did allow people to attack parts of my character that were not in question. And when i fastforward to 2020 and we about the city of canadas running for office across this country up and downabout , the challenge is likely that racializing these campaigns, using racial misinformation and be a leverage for help not only diminish those candidates but diminish their supporters from believing that they made the right choice by thinking engagement matters. We got to remember you are every year more and more young people, more and more people of color these are two committees that are traditionally not included in the body politic and because so much of their information from social media, the application of affect on the margins of elections and transform the outcome. We need to look no further than what happened in wisconsin and in michigan in 2016 where thousands of voters in detroit and milwaukee could have formed the outcome of those elections. Rebecca. Miss abrams. Weve seen especially in recent weeks a lot of pressure and a lot of focus on facebook in particular. The soft forProfit Campaign has focused on facebook although theres talk of extending the attention to twitter as well. One thing that chairman schiff mentioned in our Previous Panel was that google tends to fly a bit below the radar. When we talk about Election Integrity issues, when we talk about Voter Suppression issues and yet the tech transparency project issued a report this morning that noted that when American Voters are searching for information on facebook, about how to vote, where the boat, went to vote, google is returning and pushing accident so some of these advertisements are cranking spyware and other malware that some of the advertisements are claiming to charge fees to register but their doing so obviously notactually registering these voters. I wonder if you could say that about where our attention should really be focusing. How is it that google is sort of flying under the radar and do we need to be spreading more attention across various social media platforms. Ill start with the last part first. The attention needs to focus across the platform area and a commensurate amount of attention should be given based on how many viewers, many users we have so for the smaller platform while we should be concerned attention necessarily focuses on those who have the most, have the largest most amplified effect on the information gathering and on this information sharing. I think the attention is focused on facebook because of Mark Zuckerberg. The announcement that he intended not to play a role in actually policing the level of mendacity in the information being shared on his platform. His willingness to say he had no responsibility, that politicians could live with impunity, the target on his back and put it to sharp relief and focused attention on facebook and while hes made some mincing steps towards correction those have been faithfully and wholly underwhelming. And we needmore. I do believe we also have to focus attention on google. Any platform that can command that much attention has to be held to the highest level of accountability this notion that theres simply a conduit as opposed to a Delivery System that they are not responsible for what their platform is used for his doubly disingenuous in this day andage. We know both google and facebook command attention and they build themselves up as purveyors of truth. Therefore they have a responsibility to meet expectations a set and displaying everything they do and take themselves out of that space. They like the revenue that comes, they like the attention that comes in with that revenue, with that investment comes the obligation to actually meet this moment. So i think the larger scope of the problem is absolutely one should focus on facebook and on google and that theres new information about what google is doing wrong and how they should be held accountable cant ignore the fact that Mark Zuckerberg painted the target himself when he said he intended to 72 hours notion, when we know today also announced that he disagrees with vote by mail which is the exact same thing, that type of misinformation going unchecked by twitter or by google or by facebook is unconscionable and must stop. What can the average person do the scene campaigns and heard word from policymakers. The scene campaigns from advertisers. What would you suggest that the average american trying to Pay Attention to this information and trying to understand how they can get to the polls and make a difference. But the advice you have for the average person trying to get it right and yet finds themselves wash in this information falling from all of theseplatforms . When i was growing up my mother was a College Librarian and shes a reference librarian by trade and what she taught us as you look through threesources of information and try to make sure they match. That you dont just trust one source so for the average voter is trying earnestly to engage in this election, to understand whats happening i would say first look at the source of the information andif you dont recognize the name or the source , do the next step of finding out who else looks to them and who else validates them. So first try to find multiple sources that validate the information and whether its something you like or dislike becauseconfirmation bias exists. We want to hear people us things we think are true shifts when we are using social media platforms to gain information to make certain that you push back against your own confirmation bias by looking for multiple sources that say the same thing, that may not have a shared history. Number two, i think we have to go back to relying on Mainstream Media because it serves the purpose. Mainstream media exists because mainstream is the center area and while they will be by the left and the right for how they offer information, how they curate what they tell you, there is a utility to something and it to an institution who has really no interest in making anyone happy or makinganyone to matt. And you get maybe not the sharpest critique but you will get pretty good information that can help guide your movements. So look for mainstream, fairly wellknown sources to that information. I thinkthe third is when you see something that is wrong , Say Something that we have to remember that the social part of socialmedia is just as critical. It is insufficient when you find that information and not use it anymore. Ecopy affirmative responsibility to share the truth. Flat for our friends and family, to tell our networks this is something problematic to complain. Every single social media platform has acomplaint function. Use it liberally. Use it extensively and do not give up, he will let us about share your complaints with the Mainstream Media because the more we tell the story of what out there, the more likely it is that good will come in and you cant stop misinformation, it will continue as i said earlier. This has been around since time in a mortal but whats different is the capacity and has an average voter, as someone trying the best to do whats right, look for the best information. Use the Mainstream Media and make certain that you shared that information among your networks so that men can be done. I want to thank you for that and i want to thank you for what you said about media and the idea that consumers need to be aware of the reliability of their information. And that they can find reliable journalism. Does that, that does not and should not come from an angle and puts more responsibility on Mainstream Media actually the professional and transparent. For you about the videos. And what they do and how people should recognize that and the role and responsibility of the platforms. In reading thoseout. And also in navigating a line that some may say exists between comedy and satire and actual the, harmful this information and videos. What are yourthoughts on that. The fact that we know itis untrue. That we have to begin with the responsibility to flag it as untrue. There are those who would point to the war of the worlds radio commentary and how effective it was. It was also deeply dangerous and is to say that it shouldntbe possible but there has to be responsibility. And so i believe these fake videos are madeavailable they should be flagged as such. We can marvel at the Technology Without being pond information. And because we know that people do not have the individual capacity to discern the difference between what is fake and what is real , given just how effective and how technologically superior these products have become, i do believe that we are in this middle 80s where until individualist happy increased capacity to discern truth from fictionon their own , it is the obligation of the purveyors of that information to flag this as satire, to flag this as comedy and undermine it in terms of the creator feeling that they are part has been diminished but when your arts creates harm, there is a legitimate obligation. As someone who writes, someone who has published fiction and nonfiction on held accountable for what i say and what i do. I do a lot of research in my work and my obligation is to meet the moment with yes, entertainment and never let entertainment be taken as real news and real facts when manipulation is used not just entertain but to just inform. July. That is not an acceptable use of thistechnology. He asked my colleague rebecca to ask you one last question and i thank you very much for your comments today. Thank you and at the very last question iwould ask you , i wonder if you had the ceos of these major Platform Companies sitting in front of you, if you had jack dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, the ceo of u2, susan look at the, only three sitting in front of you at this moment , was the one thing that you would really want them to hear from you. About election disinformation, Voter Suppression and the census. That their platforms do not exist in a vacuum and their contests content doesnt exist in a vacuum. Our democracy is in a precarious position. We know that we are in the midst of an authoritarian risearound the world. That begins often with democracy. That has fallen into the role of populist authoritarians and this is not ancient history, this is recent history. Turkey, philippines, india, hungary. What may or may not be happening in poland, whatwe see in brazil and in the smallest , the obligation is to the truth. We may choose as a nation to abandon our democracy that should be a choice made knowingly and with full information. The only methods we have, the only force we have against this authoritarian rise is our ability to participate fully in our democracy thatis undermined every moment this information , this incentivizes or works, convinces people that their role as citizens is not real. And when we add to that the responsibility of the census cannot count every citizen to count every person in america , and we have to understand are not only resting console away from the people, are preparing our nation for a decade of loss because is not our or political power, is not how you seek to plan our future and a generation penny lost in this information so i would ask them to look to they are and their context and the role of history. Is more than the number of participants. It is about how they are situated in the democratic experiment that is the united states. And i know that im grateful to my friends know is grateful and i thank you for all of us at the institute for data democracy and politics as well as our collaborators within institute. Be well and thank you for taking your time to join us today. To those in the audience a reminder that we will be taking a short break now and beginning with our finalpanel in 15 minutes at noon eastern time. Thank you so much. At noon today the House Natural Resources Committee told a hearing examining actions to the Us Park Police and protesters near the white house Lafayette Square that tookplace earlier this month. Watch live at noon eastern on cspan2, online at cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio app. Today the senate will be back in session to start work on the National Defense authorization act and i can watch coverage starting at 3 pm eastern. Georgia democratic congressman hank johnson joins us via zoom, a member of the house judiciary. Good morning to you. What do you think happensto the George Floyd Justice in policing act now that its been passed by the house . Any expectation that this gets picked up by the senate or would be signed by the president . Unfortunately the grim reaper as he calls himself, Mitch Mcconnell has already