There are similarities so in the law school we bonded and chris wanted to be war journalist and we also topped out shape paying our sense so all of these early things with the similarities were very powerful so i grew up in a republican family my mother started a nonprofit so i grew up in the upper one in the Community Overseas but those Early Experiences so in my household talking about Public Policy and it was inevitable. I like to say we were isolated in many ways we are similar in so many facets as jordan put it both california straight white guys. There is a lot there but we disagree and come to very different political backgrounds and that was enough to both have the background to together but also have something disagree about it if we had too much in terms of the world view it would be harder to get a project like this done with our background and this is how people fact check me because ive known tony since i was 19 but i am from berkeley california raised by a mom who was an activist shutting down a College Campus in the seventies went to iraq war protest and grow up reading black panther literature in high school so i come from very different backgrounds without political influences and principles and in 2015 politics didnt seem that prominent to build that friendship on other things not until 2015 it felt like it was transgressive or something they should be doing and that is in the book in the project really took off. And early our mothers influence on our lives so growing up actually had a chance from a year ago. So with them bonding over protesting the war coming out of a common sense for that individual will choose a really nice thing. So to describes the differences as many arguments on the road. [laughter] you spent hundreds of hours traveling the country and then to animate the story what to find on these journeys . So chris and i met in 2016 at the first year be a law school and over the course of the next three months there was a great friendship and then it was a lot closer. And talking about the conversations and everyone around us was talking about politics and we both came back from his conversation and we hadnt gotten anywhere so one night we were listening to the people around us leaned over and said you would go on a road trip . At first road trip together i think we were nervous knowing that we would fight about politics it was a little unnerving but on the road with the National Parks and to have a great conversation and we fought really hard that you have to reconcile what that was really about so as we head into getting back on the road. Absolutely so to your point i did come a teeth on everything from how many wins the 40 niners will have next year so thank you for preparing me. After the first road trip we were so impressed about being on the road in terms of the conversations going from anger to understanding to apology to greater understanding and more apology and the virtuous cycles we decided lets do this again and to see if we can get out there and learn something to bring back something that would be important to say. So on the second road trip we went, we started the term probably that was the heart of the second road trip. Nobody is happening is not on my phone the day before i casually said do you want to go check out the trump rally and of course he said absolutely was an opportunity to see the heart of politics and of course i immediately regretted the idea but we did nonetheless and we were both blown away how we saw the same thing whether inside the rally or outside, will return to one another did you hear that . Interpreted it the same way. We were both inspired by the activity outside and inside we were amazed by the president s ability to move the people that pose a little meritless by people on the edge of the rally. The simple fact we can see the world through the same set of eyes at that political moment to say we have a voice i think there is something we can say together. Because of the violence we saw that night and the anger and vitriol and the ability to get people and the difference to talk inspired us to find stories outside of politics that spoke to more universal values and ideas that might bond us together or maybe the country as well to get stories out. So from there we turned to identify values and stories so we spend time with a group of veterans with those in arizona and Truck Drivers from las vegas and we do it all kinds of things we found exciting from spending a couple of days to her seeing carrying lerer with the prison outside of detroit with the intent to speak to a larger value set. I love that. Obviously the book is very much about your friendship and it captures that but also the characters that chris started to speak to whether a Community Activist i imagine all the incredible people telling incredible stories now writing a book and most of the audience start to wonder if you can give a view into the writing process but chose those characters over others and what jumped out with their story by sharing their perspective . He sure was slightly different and they all spoke to something about the country so for example we spend a lot of time with pete the truck driver went in and tending to tell a story about bluecollar work and on the road as the trucker today and what ended up emerging in conversations is really how complicated americans can be under the surface. He showed up on day number one make America Great again sure and of course my first thought was so much for getting away from politics but he was a complicated thinker the first thing he said was was the president talked more about climate change. He talked about god is love he supported lgbtq marriage he didnt before and we started to see theres more to this country and the people on the road than meets the eye at first. At the same time jordan and i could come together to talk about things like regulation, corporate control of driving in the importance of dignity to tell dignified stories. Thats just one example and everyone else in the book have those values to the story as well as the take away from what we learned spending time with people. We met people on the road and there was no real intention behind finding these people but what ended up happening so often we just tried to show that and we wanted to share that with others we are so excited to share their stories like the trump supporter. Thats great. So in a moment i would like to bring in audience questions on the chat function on your screen you can you type in questions what were talking about now general questions about the book they will be in and how the conversation. So turning to my next question, you have the narrative described in many ways as i thought that was interesting that the workers illuminating in the sense that why these arguments feel heated. And with that entire movement. So can you take a moment to think of the most prominent voices in those camps and then im wondering if you can tell us something that you discovered these groups in your various camps on the other side so if you are talking what did she say you didnt understand the board of on about jordan like to share about the other camp or the other tribe . Absolutely. What struck me and i hate to out to hear but on the road it always felt like jordan and the conservatives he spent time with do actually care about progress. They may not be progressive but they want everyone to have healthcare. They want everyone to get a good education like the criminal Justice System as it exists today interested in selling but they approach a very differently. And the way jordan and i would talk about all of these issues would fight until we were blue in the face and then sometimes he would end with i guess we agree and then we would say i guess we do so the idea is what the same and but then we can talk about the means to get there. Thats important and one of the big takeaways that there are quite a few shared values that we all agree upon and we agree with Second Chances so talking about criminal justice it is very clear we need to figure out the way to that and in that is lost in the mix and on the National Scale to talk about these things but knowing jordan quite well he is pursuing the same values and hopes and dreams that i am thinking about policy and thats a powerful starting point i hope youre not too mad at me jordan. [laughter]. Yes so will . That was very well said but i was tell them crystal he was half as much. [laughter] but want to know their perceptions like the hard right is that i think what i learned from perspective is that in fact it is a set of values and those principles that are in our religion may have a deep concern and then continue to be left out so then to often respond and minimize the challenges people would face and then to respond aggressively and in the rightful place and now we talk shared value and shared ground. That is an easy thing for us to engage. Thats great. I will be interested so if you are honest and formidable as the critics from the left from your camp that you can agree with that we ought to work on as a party or political ideology . Where one of those things especially in this day and age its hard to admit with those struggles to say i cant do that so im curious what those things you say internally that maybe we should aspire to be better. Thats a good question. Some things that was the Republican Party would take a different stance but i think in the conservative movement it has a hard time articulating the angles have a hard time saying we would all americans to have healthcare to have the best education possible or society in which everyone has a standard of living and the reason it must be were spending and to do that and every conservative i know but yet it makes them come off for healthcare. Worship the cancer get much better about articulating and there is a ton of overlap and you might not agree on with that approach. Same question. And the labor camp what could they do better on . When it comes to mind largely because jordan talks at length about it is a more nuanced understanding of tradition. There are a lot of powerful elements of the american tradition that we need to embrace whether that is democratic founding ideals, the system as it is designed. Of course there are deeper flaws in the system that we mean today and made worse over time and we do a lot of talking and riding in union how to wrestle with history but there are a lot of elements of our history that are quite important to hold on to even the way change monuments and names and cant let go of where we come from. Also time to hear this message because i consider myself the obama liberal and i was listening to the eulogy for john lewis he talks about redeeming the american idea and living up to the american creed in the founding whether liberty and freedom and important ideas we dont want to lose track of. And moreover losing the ability on the left to talk about the amazing parts of this country alongside the difficult parts. Thats a good point. So our first question from a member of the audience, one of the questions is around the idea of a similar discussion for members of congress. Maybe that will be a little more partly and ask if there are lessons to be shared to members of congress and in many ways it talks about the way the media plays for National Role to maintain the polarization ways for the national dialogue. And find ways. I find it very shocking in the midst of a pandemic and what i would offer to politicians is that time together with amazing conversations with and with that question and the relationship might wonder and it took time but once it did there was a productive conversation there are more that we did have an alignment with those disagreements were much smaller than we originally thought. Those issues a driver support were actually pretty close together something that means getting a group together. And then the second thing i would offer there were those the deep desire for a better message for politicians to come together. We found a study that asked about the Public Perception of government and its handling and theres just one question after another we were less trusting and then what you want to bring the country back together 94 percent said yes do you think americans. [inaudible] and 96 percent yes so as the country really wants this is about bringing people together and that would resonate with the american people. And a similar question any advice for National Leaders and members of congress . Absolutely. The first thing i would say union is our effort to collect stories from outside. We went out to talk to people in new orleans in portland and south dakota and not so much dc but that gives us some insight into how do you see can change i only have one we go with richard and said otherwise i completely concur but on top of spending more time together i think its important we spend different time together. I think that perspective is important i think about the truck driver and if i met him at the trial probably we probably couldnt talk whatsoever would have been yelling it would have not been conducive to conversation but that the sun had just gone down maybe jordan is and the back but when we are talking with far more able to talk about human things naturally and in the context to find that connective tissue that the children the same species and theres something powerful about that. And with my time in dc ideas but it is the intimate time with the other side so to speak and i think with the National Leaders and state leaders there needs to be a context for quiet and formidable and intimate settings to talk whether at the dinner at one anothers houses. Doesnt seem like a grand change or something that will fix politics overnight but i think losing that is very detrimental to our ability to communicate and it makes it that much easier to get in front of the cameras on the floor to say whatever the heck you want because you have a broken bread with the other side and that is a critical part of spending more time together but in that context. Thank you to both of you with the locker on the lack of knowledge or familiarity with congress and senators have with one another show you have to get back to the district to campaign into fundraising that means less time sharing a meal or getting to know one another to build that kind of trust. Senator Lindsey Graham speaks incredibly highly of his friend joe biden seems to have a real enduring trusting relationship if they found Common Ground. So mentioning shared meals and with that friendship that we can use to replicate communicates and to replicate elsewhere in the daily life. Thats a great question. Things that were powerful there are many ways in small groups and communities and there is something about communities that are separates from us and to do so regularly there is some extreme powerful battle and if you have that and we found that is something very powerful and then to bring people together to break down barriers and then to resonate with those feelings and then to come out from any direction and it is very powerful. I want our audience to note that conservatives were the first ones to bring up that but not liberals. [laughter] i do think it is important also a little bit selfindulgent but i think that is brilliantly important to listen to gabriel, gabriel, one of the inmates the president and his poetry in my story or running the program and also for women and mothers talk about the women in the program. We are truly wired for story. The way to get across the media that is a Life Experience that is unknown is to tell a story. And we can be around the campfire to tell stories for listening to those Correctional Officers in the room talk about shakespeare story you can connect in a totally different way and a totally new way. That may not be the answer but to other people that may not hear your story that is an important way to get this acros across. And what immediately comes to mind it is a common bond if you cant talk about politics. We have a lot to talk about. Keep sending these and it is great. We appreciate that. Something i have been thinking a lot about. Most of us can agree there is the benefit in coming together to arrive at a solution we absolutely need to do that. And then the initiative but with a range of issues particularly if one side or the other views it for example like if i am prolife talk to ending the life of a child. Will transgender servicemember now talking about my rights to serve in the military with the rights of somebody to have a fear so my question is is this when compromise is not the answer and those those opportunities to find Common Ground. As chris and i came to believe that we can get away from each other we were not convincing each other to the point where we could articulate and then to empathize and understand and one of the incredible things we not only agree on substance is actually one of the virtues in the system and the truth and the vast majority of people that there are some things that have moral force and when you come across these issues from society with this constitutional means and also there is a tradition and legacy to do that and it becomes part of the american ethos that we can transcend that process but where they are. My word say you know that pretty damn well but Common Ground with the president but i know if it is everyones project i think it should be more peoples project than it is right now but there will always be people who maybe you want to do this we also like to say it takes all types to create and open society so there may not be those who want to do this but the vast majority think of americans or any citizen who is in a do my best democracy even with Common Ground is it possible dialogue is important with this new definition not to be in lockstep to talk about nonetheless and it has a lot of feelings and sometimes we dont but in most cases friendship trumps anger when it comes to getting somewhere. Whether we like it or not made up of both sides so with the necessity of modern democratic life 60 plus million voted for Hillary Clinton and thats a lot of people both sides and if we cant talk even if we disagree on issues we cannot get anywhere and make progress then everyone loses. Even if i believe it will be everyones project. I will take moderator privilege and then to safeguard access is incredibly important to be the is healthy and civil outlets to maintain access and from that perspective and from another audience question that is interesting looking at National Leaders as a compromise put to be particularly effective reaching across the aisle. So that is the response that thats one of my favorite speeches so it prevents a stark choice for society and to that point that Martin Luther king is the best example to speak and have a positive appeal to prosper and then to articulate in that tradition of American History so these are ideals and so that ability to speak from within and then to show how reality is out of step with the reality and with a common purpose. And a historical figure. I also want to point out to bring up malcolm x. Was a conservative things are more complicated than they may look. I would have said mlk largely speaking there is an opportunity to tell stories that reframe the founding ideals for the moment. Something we also agree on is politics fractious because it is a competition and someone wins and summer loses. Once in a while people can tell a much larger story and change the way we look at the country in the future and mlk was one of them. And reagan could speak a larger truth about america the matter what we think of him as a president and to mlk and also kennedy and the spirit. [laughter] audience it is fun to hear your perspective so now we would turn to a portion of the book where we have a brief conversation about race and Police Brutality with the leadership and the risk of a Police Officer that was pretty clear racial profiling. To have an experience of a black man to be singled out i had a visceral reaction what it feels like to encounter a Police Officer in that it is true as a teen and the 40 yearold man and the importance of sympathy and to understand and so to move beyond topics like race and gender and for audiences to do a better job of learning of the respect from others understanding another perspective. It is a hard question and jordan and i to this day still fight about things earlier on the phone today we are laughing about a fight we had yesterday. This is a messy process to understand one another on ideas and issues that are to so Many Americans it can be very difficult and that is coming back to the table so when we talk about these difficult things we try to find empathy with shared values that we both agree upon so for example we often try to talk about voter id laws and the way it should be legislated and when we talk about Mitch Mcconnell and nancy pelosi we find ourselves that we both believe in the franchise and then we should have access to it. And we care about and that facebook is not used to change everything about the outcomes. And ultimately undervalue perspective and then we can talk about outcomes or policies or where we should go. That is one aspect of our conversation about talking about difficult things. I like the way you frame the question. So as you have these arguments in that conversation which is titfortat so that emotion over anger and then to share those underlying experiences so i know what it feels like to go into those uncertain situations i have empathy for those and for a Police Officer that approaches the car in the uncertain situation but then also watching friends to experience what it is like have a lot more empathy for something what the policy should be brought that conversation to make the situation better. So to have this topic so in particular. The biggest difference is that i am an optimist and i think a lot of that is driven by the underlying and coming into that. And then start to see things the same way. And everywhere we went us are racial issues and criminal justice and then not to walk away and it is a very formative experience we never heard of the total servicemaster when part of the American History and story and tradition we saw incredibly hardworking people working so hard that story and to the present to overcome those current challenges. And then to have conversations that people from all parties that were so hopeful so that progress begins with a hard conversation so as you look across the country you see a lot more conversation about our history. You are welcome to talk to me when you talk like that so thank you. I think so. And just to underlie what you said earlier we finished writing this book on july 4th 2019. This is well before this current moment we are in and it was unavoidable talk about race and inequality and how to create a more perfect union. So what were seeing now is that outpouring of anger and desire to change and that is powerful. Look at our streets right now terrible tragedy but it is so optimistic this is now the biggest social movement in us history look at the statistics. It doesnt matter if you are conservative or liberal you care about equality and dignity. We had a call shortly after the murder of george floyd was a Little Service because by what i saw on the tape i didnt want to get into a fight. Answered the phone the first thing jordan said was that was inhumane and heinous and something is to change immediately which is of course what he would say. Yes we are both hopeful because we believe hope is an active form of optimism that people are not in the streets are carrying about these things are having these hard conversations working tooth and nail them there is no hope. But when they are, theres more than you can imagine on so why return in his Memorial Service i cannot think of anyone more hopeful than that man and his legacy is what we see in the streets today. Will take a long time to trickle up to washington if you look at the streets and talk to the same people across the country you cannot help that this will turn into something beautiful. So speaking of the american landscape and with that political divide as an avid birdwatcher spending a lot of time on the road for what the country has to offer from san diego california. And it is really special. And how great it would be. So yes i agree with everything jordan just said i think democracy requires us to come together to plan a place to talk and with public squares and parks and i think as speakers so not only is it a great tonic and it is part and parcel to build democracy so with the Gathering Place a massive park and was designed specifically with the segregated nature to bring north and south also together and they bolted on that line so then you can see one another and talk to one another. So i think if it is yellowstone or a park on the Lower East Side you have to have open places in public spaces to build a thriving and open society. Thats the great point if either of you run for Political Office will add the addendum to this learn the lessons about compromise. I prefer to work for politicians that was over a decade ago that im inspired by others is what i would say. What do you think . That most people keep open in the bookstore experience has taught me. So on that conflict well into the midst of a president ial hopeful if there are moments that are relevant to keep the audience from navigating conversation from the president ial election. There is no doubt about it and then the day after we have to come back better there is no doubt we have to Work Together and with russian affiliation to come back to the table and we will be better off not using the power that i had. I agree with everything the best place for us to and is in new orleans i think this is important for jordan and myself. And the reason i point to new orleans is and specifically on bringing together all sure on other cultures in American Culture after cuba and culture and then to and then often it is complicated and deeper history through means from getting together and to build those cultures that are uniquely american so as we look forward to reconciliation to see one another that is so alive and hopefully take that with us to the ballot box. That is the beautiful place to end ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story with us today. Thank you so much it was an incredible discussion. Thats it. Thank you so much have a good night. People is somebody that they like. If you have 42 or 43 percent approval you cant win i think thats true he can win because people dont like him dislike he operates will still vote for him because they like his attitude