Same strategies in 2014 the party to sweeping victory in 2016, prior to the mustsee republican primary debate sean worked on behalf of the party to restructure the base format trading more informative and fair debates. Seans efforts at the rncs chief strategist and medications director landed him a spot in pr weeks power 50 list for2016. The last join us at the Reagan Library in july 2018 his book the breathing, politics, the press and president. He had a virtual discussion about his brandnew book leading america examines the upward battle instrument is half to face the media, hollywood, academia and big tech. We now invite you to enjoy our Virtual Program coming to you from our air force one Leadership Academy oval office with sean spicer and reaganfoundation Institute Executive director john hi bush. Sean spicer, it is great to have you with us at the Reagan Library and obviously all socially distance and a long way awaybut congratulations, really great book. I had a lot offun reading it so i know its her second book. Congrats on the great reed. Its a shame not to be back at such a Historic Place and i want to give my first book to her, it was actually just so refreshing to come out there and have a discussion with you and answer questions so its great that we get to do it but its a shame it cant be inperson. When the world opens back up again sean wed love to have you. So put it on your calendar. Now, this is her second book. You have been since you left the white house and when you wrote this book, just as i expected, you took the opportunity near your first chapter to tell your story about dancing with the stars and why you did it and the whole decision process that led to that. And i wonder if you talk to us about your experience. Would you do it again, you feel like it was good for your career and just get into that for us. So as im in the book i was asked when i left the whitehouse i said no for a lot of reasons i go into. Most of which are because im a horrible dancer and i have nobody. And its a huge Time Commitment i didnt have so the long story short is that i continue the conversation with the executives there. I walked through the whole process in the book and i finally came to a point where i said to myself, you dont get that many opportunities to do things that are on different and at some point people just stop asking and they dont go, so i thought okay. This is the last time and i had developed sort of a friendship and a bond with some of the executives there had been very helpful in the first interaction. I said this is a good idea and we walked through it and i finally came to the realization that this will be fun area and im bad it only this so it will only last two or three weeks and i can check the box and move on area and so i said yes and i walked through this. You mentioned in the chapter book, i knew that this there would be some headwinds, i knew the leftwould lose their mind. I knew the media would go nuts. I just didnt realize how quick ill soon and how visceral area then it was just interesting to see, it was like everything got consumed by the other, what you cannot fill in is he working as hard, then he thought politics was just so, it was an introduction to me in a world i had never been in because it was sort of like this mashup of the different cast members and where theyrefrom , lamar odom and there was sort of a sports thing, a music thing with some of the cast members but then you were physically in hollywood and dealing with the headwinds and i found that most people, not just around the show but even that i bump into in hollywood and la were nice kind people. It was almost like people had to ring a bell at one point and go just remember, hes a republican, he works with trump and maybe like i dont like you anymore. It was challenging as i may never made anything political. I didnt want to be. The whole show, the beauty of it was it was this distraction from politics and it was this fact you could have a fun, civil good conversation with people like we used todo. And not feel like everything waspolitical. So anyway, i enjoyed it. They tell you at the beginning of the show that its a family. And its sort of like one of those catchphrases they throw your way. Youre going to love it, its going to be a family and i said yeah, yeah and i honest to god i count it as one of the best experiences of my life. I met some amazing people that i still stay in touch with today. Im going to be visiting with some of them in the next couple of weeks as i travel around to different places and we reached out and i said i know youre coming to my town and its not just the cast members , if the people who do security. Who do the publicity. Who do the for Food Services on the stage area. I mean, it really was and im glad i did it. I had a blast. I learned a bunch of stuff and i honestly if they called me today and they said were doing another season i come back in a heartbeat. That was my next question is if given the opportunity would you do it again and it sounds like you would. Its like its good wholesome fun and i talk about this in the book but of all the reality shows, there is no pride if you win dancing with the stars. You get a glitter ball and i joke in the book i say unless your aficionado, theres no value. You can go to tiffanys court sell it at some of these, maybe you can put it on ebay but theres no huge cash, 10 million and you get a recording contract or become a professional dancer so youre there to have fun and cool parties everybody there tears for each other area that youre up against yourself. So its almost like one of those things where you get to be cheering on everyone else, theyrecheering you on. Youre not trying to knock someone out. Its not like survivor where youre trying to get rid of them. The closest thing i can think of in my life where i took flyer like that, i became a judge for a miss americapageant and i caught the same kind of flat that youre talking about. How can you do Something Like that . But at the end of the day, good on you sean, taking risks and having fun, thats what life is supposed to be all about. Its funny because i agree with you. When youlook back , theres things that ive done so many televisionappearances and done things that frankly i dont want my kids to watch. And its nice to be able to say like my kids now, we now gather. I watched before i did the show and so even now as they head into season 29 on monday nights i can sit down with my kids and they can vote for someone and talk about who is thatperson , they did a good job. We need more of that, not less of it. And so it was fun on a lot of levels and it was really an enjoyable experience. In the book i talk about the fact that im on the board of a few organizations and igot to bring wounded servicemembers and their families to the show. You forget that youre out there, everybody goes to the Reagan Library, but for a lot of folks being told you can get thishollywood night out where you get to come and meet all the stars and get treated like a vip , to say you and your caregiver, its a really cool thing to be able to do so its fun to make the experience broader than myself. And it made for a great start to the book so way to go sean area that the only thing i have to say and i was surprised i didnt know this until i read your book was the one guy who seems like a nice guy, tom bergeron, hes the one guy that takes shots at you from the start. It just seemed odd. If you had picked up 30 faces at that show and said tell me the one guy thats going to pop off, im with you. I love watching this guy on tv, hes always funny and jovial and despite the fact that he popped off about me i still think hes a good host. I think this is what makes the difference between conservatives and liberals is that he may not like me, obviously i dont like his politics but i think hesgood at what he does. So its weird and i said itat the outset. Hes been a good host of the show. Hes entertaining. I just thought why of all the people that have been on the show that have done some rather nefarious things, youre coming after me . No names of course. Well put. And then around that time before or after you hit the talk show circuit, you did fallon, you did stephen colbert, that thing with the emmys and all that. It seems like it would have been a lot of fun but at the same time thats where you talk about how you know in the modern day it seems like we have comedy has taken a turn where it all seems to be personal and fighting now, its not really comedy anymore. This goes back to what i was saying about tom. I go back to the day, leno and lemberg letterman were equal opportunity offenders and it was funny. They poked fun at people. They work mean about it and the different terms weve taken is that whether its colbert or fallon or kimball or seth myers even is that weve got to be mean and we got to be political. Youve got a long history in republican politics, i was watching the other night a clip , i didnt watch the show and it was Jamie Harrison is the democratic challenger and im trying to remember, i think he was on kimball but the point is in my entire political career ive never heard of the Challenger Campaign going on a latenight show that wasnt running forpresident. Thats where it is now where weve tried to figure out how to turn these latenight shows into the political shows where they can also tell jokes, and find ways to poke fun at conservatives for the president. Used to be this place where the end of the day you could turn in and laugh andfall asleep. I dont thinktheyre funny anymore and thats a shame. It is and then you know you ripped from that to a vivid example of not just specifically comedy but its about how the media has decided to treat liberals versus conservatives and you use the famous blackface example that whether youre a liberal or a conservative, a number of people involved in that yet the pending which side of the fence youre on your treated differently area to give us an example of that. Look at megan kelly. Shes on her show asked a question about the appropriateness of blackface and the funny thing is i dont want to relitigate it but i think what i think megan was getting at is a deeper understanding of why certain things offend people of color which i frankly think is as light person is helpful because we need to understand more why certain things that we might not be knowledgeable about offend certain people because of past racial injustices. I think that broadens our understanding and our concern because we go i never understood that, ive never had to do it. I can now understand in a more personal way when it troubles you or hurt you and therefore i dont want to do it again. It makes us better people. We dont use words that might offend Somebody Just because we were brought up in a way or exposed to an environment in which we are allowed to see certain things that again depending on our economic status or where we grew up but she got knocked off her show for asking a question. She apologized etc. But then you go down the long list i lay out in the book and all these folks on the left used blackface whether elected officials on the left, and Democratic Politics for people like joy behar or kimball, all these other folks and yet theres not been because if youre on the left, excused and washed away as long as you are advancing a greater good in the leftist culture. Its okay and forgiven and you go through this with comedy, i talk about the. Saturday night live where one comic was not allowed back on because of a joke yet some of these other folks when they find homophobic or antisemitic things they said as long as they say that wasnt too i am anymore, joy from msnbc when she made up a whole host of stories about the fbi investigating packs of her thing yet shegets rewarded with a primetime show. So theres this amazing double standard that exists when the left does something and the right does something and its this more pervasive cancel culture where we figured out who gets canceled out because its not the subject , certain people can say something, other people cant and if youre in the pursuit of the leftist ideology, joy behar the other day and is unbelievably, and i use of the word attractive not in a physical sense but just as a candidate, theres an unbelievably attractive candidate in the sense that shesarticulate. She got a great plan. He has a message and shes the kind of person shes running in baltimore shes got these ads on that are just amazing. She goes on the view and joy behar tells her, a black woman that she had permission to dress in blackface from the black community. I didnt realize you could do that. Where do you go to ask for it and kim as a black woman didnt have the support of the black community and im thinking to myself in what world does an older white woman preach to a black woman and tell her that she doesnt have the support of the black community but she has a white woman does . I guess on the view its okay. No problem with that. The book is great because you play at a high level. You get down in the weeds on a lot of these issues and at the higher altitudes sean, you go after corporate activism, big tech , hollywood. I think what i tried to do is not necessarily go after, but it also is exposing because i dont think when i was researching the different subjects and i would go down the rabbit hole and say wait a minute, that cant be true is it was like you start to realize whats really going on and what motivates some of these people and it explains a lot is the way i would put it. Why would a company do this . Why would a hollywood firm not want to do this and you look at it and go its finally making sense now. So in the exposing of big institutions like that, is there one sean that is like the most pernicious. Its one that is undercutting our society more than any other . Is it the fact that big tech goes after censorship, isnt that Corporate America is just bowing to Political Correctness . Or all they are all a pox on older houses as youexpose it all . I think its a little pox on all their houses but what worries me is the chapter on education where you realize whats happening in Public Schools these days in terms of not what theyre teaching them in terms of math and science and all these things but rather this idea of what to protest, what causes to care for and theres a part in the book where i talk about the fact that many schools like in Fairfax County allows kids days off to go protest Climate Change. Alot of people will look at this and i say in the book , im not not here to take issue with the issue. What i am here to say is if youre reading the book and you say i think that Climate Change is a bad issue and ask you to questions. One, is this an appropriate use of class time at a time when were falling behind in areas like stem, can we say lets take a day off and go protest something . Some people may say its worth the day off because you learn something, the way were falling behind especially behind china, its not. The second thing i would argue is take out Climate Change for a second and assume republicans take over your school board and that becomes a prolife march, are you still comfortable with Public School teachers and your kids out to support conservative cause and i dont think many liberals would answerthe question the same way anymore. So the thing i think is fascinating is to realize whats happening when so many parents are working so hard to put their kids on the bus in the morning they assume that the teachers just teaching him, giving him or her the tools to succeed when in fact theyre coming home and saying i dont like donald trump because hes a bad man or i understand this issue is important and youre thinking to yourself why is your job , not mine as a parent to teach them values and things like that. Ill leave the teaching of the studies and the subject up to you. You leave the values and principles up to me as a parent. I couldnt agree withyou more. So let me ask you , knowing what you know about the University Experience in america, would you ever secondguess whether to send your kids to college . I mean, its still a ticket to success in society but it concerns a lot of parents now and it didnt used to. Thats a really good question because especially in the age of covid where youre saying im stroking is 70,000 check to private institution for a kid to sit at home and go on zoom when i can sit around and take Classes Online or study. So i hope that theres a fundamental transformation in how politics are looked at. I dont know that it will happen in part because of how its financed but i think it should be and i think the question youre asking is it so important because theres things kids can learn today that they dont necessarily need to go to a fouryear liberal arts school. I can tell you in retrospect in some ways i would not be where i am today and i not go to these small liberal arts colleges but didnt prepare me for thefuture . I dont think so living with folks and getting to know folks, sure of the classes that i took , no. And i mentioned in the book i had the opportunity to throw a lot of Foundation Grants to go on to College Campuses and the a College Speaker and its amazing because how many College Conservative speakers have you had on your campus . One, five, two. Its never been more than five and its usually one or two and i think to myself this is an opportunity or the kids to learn, and every time ive gone somewhere been greeted by protests and usually some kind of outrageous statements, but theres always a packed crowd of kids because thats what they should be and its almost like they the staff and the faculty are complicit in trying to push out these voices and this opportunity to learn and to hear from somebody thats not and the funny part is i dont know about you i go to, ill tune into folks on the left area i want to know what theyre saying area and it fascinates me and i think it makes me stronger as a conservative you understand why and how they construct anargument. So its almost like and i dont think im alone in that but a lot of conservatives like to do that but its like the left feels as though its a threat to hear any voice that might give opposition to their thoughts. I couldnt agree more. In fact on the way into the Reagan Library to interview you i was i would turn on npr and i do that specifically for that reason. I want to understand what the other side thinking and saying and how does it line up against my own arguments so i couldnt agreemore. You recount in the book sean you look at the sectors of society and the media, hollywood and entertainment, academia area big tech and now we are heading into sports. All of these things that have become political theater where it seems that the left is really winning the day. I cant go to an nfl Football Game without having to kneel to prove your patriotic. And it seems to me, tell me what you think about this. The only sector left where conservative ideology as a fighting chance is in politics. And its not even fair there either area is there any part of society yet that the liberal imaginationdoesnt own . I think the one that i think is next on the list is religion. And i think youre going to see a lot of the left start to coopt religion and start to say that you can be religious if you will and have all of these leftwing policies and views and they dont, so theyre going to coopt religion so that you cant get up and run for office or try to espouse your views and talk about it in the context of christianity or judaism. About it sort of having this muted sense of well, you can be a good catholic and still be prochoice and you can be a good jew and still allow for the following. Theyre going to start to dilute the meaning and the strength of some of these religions so i think thats whats going next but i do think youre right that the one place that conservatives will have the ability to go out and fight and win is in elected politics because at the end of the day if theidea is popular enough , you get 1 youre in office. You also see and i talk about this in the book, the way theyre covered. The left its a much different path than the right does when theyre running for office and you see that now with joe biden where hes talking or not about his position on Court Packing which would be a pretty substantial issue for the American People to know and he shames reporters into asking them saying of course im not going to tell you it would give you a headline,god for bid and headline. Thats kind of normally, ive been doing this a long time. Thats what younormally want. Those very same reporters dont dare to follow up and say i really want to know. But they actually feel like and i was watching this, i felt like they were shamed into going im sorry mister biden, i just go back to my trauma question and when you have a press corps thats complicit , thats a problem and i think the nice thing for me is when you see the opportunities that exist more on the right whether its news platforms like my show on newsmax or the daily caller, all these opportunities that are on the right but also opportunities like thiswhere now the Reagan Library can say yes , were close because of covid but we can continue to get the word out and we can do Facebook Live and the conversation can continue in a way that it couldnt have 510 years ago. Thats crucial to the conservative movement. And going back to your other point about the next sector of religion , as we speak this, these hearings going on with Amy Coney Barrett and whether asa christian she could be a good judge. The other thing is i was thinking that the Senate Democrats and im not in the business of giving them advice were making a strategic mistake because every time i watched Amy Coney Barrett get an answer i was just blown away by her depth and breadth ofknowledge. The course of president and i think to myself ive seen more messages with people saying that so i want my daughter to look up to, thats the kind of woman that i want to be a role model for friends ofmine or my daughter or my friend. And i think that its strategically a mistake the longer the democrats drive this out because she is such a great example of what a good conservative constitutional judge looks like and i keep saying he hearings going, lets do it. It reflects well on us and i think that the democrats are talking about everything but her and her qualifications and it makes them look like for all of their virtue signaling that you have a very highly, immensely qualified woman for the court and yet theyre coming up with like well, we understood you replaced stevia with sugar in ourrecipe. One of your kids homework, they are falling out of the kitchen sink between her faith and all of these other extraneous things that have nothing to do with her ability to be a fantastic justice. And it just show you how desperate they are. And as we found out a day or two ago, all with no notes, when senator cornyn did that i said i hope to god that you know what youre doing and i assume hes a brilliant tactician. Okay and when she held it up it wasnt just that she held it up. The face that she made, it was like i want her, i was so proud of her and i dont even know her. So you talk a fair length in the book about the medias treatment of President Trump and some well said stuff. And i dont, tell me i want to hear how you answer this question but while the media in your mind and my mind, a lot of peoples minds has been remarkably unfair to President Trump. I mean, really unfair. Hes brought some of this on himself. His style and his approach so talk about that. Out give you an example, i talked to him the other day and the line used in the debate, 47 months versus 47 years in action area into that. You have a ton of accomplishments. Youve made progress rid the president has been treated unfairly but people dont vote for you because you were treated unfairly. They both for you because you accomplished things and you have a vision of how to move the country and peoples lives forward. So if you want to settle grievances theres plenty of time for that after office or in the second term until you get to it its not worth it. There are days in which you he can either be clearer on his statements or understand their out to get you so dont let them take the bait, dont hang it out there. Im sure you had to be frustrating for you and you admired him and supported them but of all the jobs where the president would need good counsel on do this, try this, do that, to come from this Communications People and that we speaks. He can be as on best friend and his own worst enemy in that regard. Its your profession to advise him and if hes not going to take the advice hes not going to take the advised. The hard part though is hes been doing this for himself for so long its hard at that time 71 years old to say hi, tell me how to operate. By the way, you guys are part of that establishment, meaning rnc faction the told me this would never work. I did it my way. Id would come in and tell me how i should operate as president. Its not as easy to go with it till somebody who in many cases i given advice during the campaign, he and a lot of cases not chose not to listen to it. He would look over and say see, i did it my way. It worked. He does. He puts it. I spent 25 years writing communications plans in giving advice either elected officials, military officers, what have you and say they would tinker with it and said i i would rather st this way and then lets executed. Trump said heres what i want to say, how what to say. Go get out there. Its a different dynamic. The penultimate example has to be that moment in the campaign, you were not yet White House Press secretary, this is campaign, the hollywood access thing. 99 out of 100 people that i i w in the world of politics that event experts their whole lives wouldve said thats it, its over, hang up your cleats, its done. Trump just barreled right through it. That was the second debate in st. Louis which theoretically we should be having this week. Not only think about this. Instead of being contrite they should ask for forgiveness and he turns red, fly to st. Louis, sits in the front row and says lets roll. Im thinking to myself who does this . Thats the kind of thing that you would just never honestly got if you had handed me a note and said heres what you should do, you will win, i wouldve been like get John Heubusch some help right now. [laughing] and yet theres a reason when the execute that they didnt tell anyone on staff. No one will think this is a good idea, and they were right. Really amazing. So the elections are about three weeks from now, turn on the nightly news all you hear is the polls are bad for trump, thins are terrible, all this stuff. And yet im remembering thats exactly what you and the campaign went through four years ago. Use parallels to that and could it possibly turn it any different this time . Theres a lot of parallels especially in the states and the numbers we are seeing. Theres lots of laws in the polls but that being said i think were headed in a lot of places . No. It is extremely close. In a lot of places he is behind what we were last time which is we were behind but that was a delta we could pick up if when executed the grant can successfully. Thats still there. There are some variables that are different. Hillary clinton was a despised candidate by many in her own party. Jill biden may have some crazy, wacky policies and dont think hes the same joe biden he was from ten years ago by these not hated. Joe biden is a nice guy. Hes likable and theres not that visceral reaction pathways with Hillary Clinton. When you have a state like michigan and you take out a bad candidate like Hillary Clinton and put in joe biden, it makes that go okay, that puts michigan in in a different place now. Pennsylvania was 44,000 votes, wisconsin 24,000 wisconsin 24,000 votes. Suddenly these states become much more in play. Arizona, theres no question about it, thats in jeopardy right now. Thats a state we shouldnt have to think about. That being said i think the Trump Campaign would argue both nevada and minnesota are but were not in a place right now where were at 270 and trying to gain more. Theres a much better scenario for biden getting there than us, meaning there are more states that are in place that could put them over the top. That being said i think the secret weapon has always been that far the last four years the Trump Campaign and the rnc have worked on the ground came at a data operation that allow them to focus on the general election as opposed to the last six months in the case of biden. That in my mind is where the field goal. Like all other things a field goal is worth three and yet to get the race within three. Thats right. Back to the book for a second. You make the point a few times i think, because of modern day social media, internet, tweets, the rest of that, its kind of like donald trump and his massive social media machine and his ability to direct contact with voters here and then theres the media thats all the post to them almost all opposed to in and not on his side. In some respects i look at this upcoming election see i widened her with to win . Is it trump social media arsenal and his ability to reach voters directly, or does the majority of the media being against you for so long, is that going to have this eroding effect and theres no way your social media can get around it . That kind of the battle here, right . It is. In the state like florida trump one by over nine points last time. Hes not down to plus five and that erosion and a voting group that is that this portion at large can be affected and the other issue you can joke about this at his rally in pennsylvania where he talked about suburban women, what do i need to do for you to like me . He knows theres an erosion in the script and when you play on it razors edge come with us because media how did you every night or whatever the reason is, thats not a good place going into the final stretch of election. He has to figure out how to make that up that dealt in those key groups. The funny thing is the place where would have never guessed or probably wouldnt have predicted trump would be where he is now, the margins he has gained some Hispanic Community in the black community have been amazing. The problem is as much a big deal as amita likes to making out, they are much smaller lots of electric. As much as you can do well with them, a small drop in senior is not as good as a bigger game in the black or hispanic voting bloc because of the disproportionate size is a total proportion for the electorate. Lets presume he makes up the ground and this becomes a very tight election. Do you foresee, given the thing set up and set them both sides, that we could end up with one heck of a bush v. Gore 2000 times an hundred . Are we possibly heading there . There . I think so. When you think about a state like pennsylvania was change the rules and allowed ballots to be casco mail in ballots to be cast without signatures or postmarks seven days after election you can say theres no democrats are probably going to lose on Election Night and make it up on mail in ballots. They will argue is that any ballot should count, make a simple argument people would say any ballot should count. They will not take bitumen at the deadline the didnt have signature, in pennsylvania they call naked ballots, didnt have a second envelope stuffed inside and able claim the voter intent was to vote for joe biden. I think you will see multiple bush v. Gore. Even in bush v. Gore the big issue was florida but in new mexico the Bush Campaign was within i think 1000 votes and chose not to contest that. I think in this election we have the potential to see multiple state contested within the days following the november 3 in person election voting. It will be interesting to see how many are happening and whether that would ultimately go to the supreme court. Im going to go back to your role as press secretary minute. I know have a few more minutes but i wont get to ask these questions often some subtotal t there. Everyone knows but the role of press secretary, any president , is one of if not the toughest job in washington, d. C. You are on the stage like no other. You went out there, took your knocks, faced the press like he always did day today. Traditional approach to facing the White House Press corps. Since then theres been these different sayings, will have a briefing today, we are not. We would have it for a few weeks. Do you think its a tool that, good or bad, the press secretary in the president should allow that to occur every day to get the message out . Or do you think its become kind of a joke . Its just a pitched battle that, a lot of fear but not serving its initial purpose. Where have you come to settle on that in your mind . The American People have a right to see the government in action almost every day in some way, shape, or form. This president goes out and engages with the meat almost daily. The question is does the press have an opportunity to question our leadership . They should. I dont think an on camera briefing every day suits that. They should be some mechanism by which the press this given access. They can ask questions everyday, thats a fallacy to perpetuate, the doors always open. They can walk right up to the present secretary store, literally an open bullpen with the exception of the press secretary shall office. They dont need to have an on camera briefing every day. Its good to see it once in a while maybe once or twice a week especially with the present engaging the way he does. It does not need to be what has become a show. There can be a combination of on camera, offcamera but it has become an opportunity for a lot of these folks to become youtube stars that want to sensationalize it. Theres different reforms. From what i think the camera does need to go on the report. It should stay on the press secretary as a dozen some of the other institutions whether its the pentagon our state department, because it shouldnt be about the reporter. It should be about Holding Cabinet officials accountable and not allowing them to have their click. There are things like that that can be done to make it less excitable, chaotic, and more informative. Is there a reporter or a media outlet that you would single out to say, listen, they are tough as heck on you or the white house but you have to give them their due. Is there an individual, somebody would say is a good example of somebody that might come at your real hard but theyre absolutely fair . I always like to single out Jonathan Swann axios but theres a handful of them, bloomberg is really good. Keith hall that at reuters but this thing about jonathan in particular and jen as well is they are tenacious is probably the best word. Worker they go after stories but they are fair and feel safe to use john, i have the story, this is what it says. Do you dispute any part of the . If so tell me why. Im not going to send go to change it, i want to give you your deal. That they are well sourced. They know what theyre talking about and they can be trusted. I get i dont agree with everything the right or how they write but i dont often doubt when they see a byline of theirs that theres anything wrong with the story. Ill say there might be some dispute among the quarter Something Like that but they are generally in the bullseye area. Thats the side of a real pro, right . Thats the way it used to be. That is to say, i disagree with you but you you are fair t the story. I didnt like the ankle. But these days its few and far between i i can say that about. You are the first White House Press secretary in the history of the united states, i think, to leave the post and then come back in the role of covering the white house and the present secretaries briefing. You are the very first, right . How did that feel . I was the present secretary. I did dancing with the stars and then walk into the press briefing room, i have a show every night at 6 00 at axios. We have a seat, newsmax, i thought it would be really interesting for the show to be able to go in, asked the president some questions. That ranked up there in the nervousness, because i was aspect the president is now calling on me, number one. Number two, you know when youre on television but it was like in a different light and you got all the eyes of the press corps saying what are you going to ask . I had broke some nbc say its inappropriate that i was there. The funny thing is i had some folks from the questions i asked him what was about to stop act, a congress that was trading stocks and profiting often, actually several at the time and then as to another question about his response i think early in covid. Other outlets rode off of the questions i asked. I was the 15th, 16th person that was called up and briefing afp were so outraged and without way to second, i asked the questions that you didnt ask and now youre going to get mad at me . You are on the speaking circuit and a water what have you chosen to have your message be all about . What is of the theme of when you talk to any number of different groups . It depends. It depends on who the group is and because sometimes its an organization that really was oa specific message. I do a lot of speeches on College Campuses and a lot of times that message is getting involved, understand the landscape we live in today and a lot of what the things through the book are. Theres a lot of political organizations i speak to us will get a special election season. Its a lot of groups that want to know what the lay of the land is here what it was like 2016. What worked, what didnt, what tools of the trade did we see . I think thats part of it is trying to get people to understand how to create successful, comprehensive medication strategies. A lot of people get wrapped around these days and tactics, i sent a tweet, i posted this. There are all tactics. How do you combine those two critic comprehensive strategy that drives home that just a message but a message people act and behave differently because whether they vote, volunteer, donate, so trying to get people to understand that because too often again its like you can people get caught up, i put up 15 tweets. Thats great. What were you trying to achieve . I got it. Heres the very last question. I know you involved in number of nonprofits. You do some great work in that area. Is there one youd like to give a shout out to, someone, one that we should come you should talk about briefly today because of the important . Both the Independence Fund and the Yellow Ribbon fund our two veterans organizations. The independent font provide track which is devoted with mobility issues and these look like little tanks and they give a better the ability to wink i said i would love to go for walk. What he meant was instead of having someone pushing you getting this and you go in his backyard and which is so cool. They allow it to go hunting because and get over all sorts of trade. Yellow ribbon fund, if you become it going to walter reed, servicemembers taken care of but its the wife for the caregiver with a son or daughter that have to pay for. Youre getting 30 or 40,000 a year and just like to walter reed and staying at hotel will cost 1000 bucks and they take care of that. Great. Well everybody listening and watching today would give them a hand. Sean, just a wonderful book. Congratulations. Thanks. Take care of yourself. I look forward to being there in person against him. You got it. Thanks. Every year the key to ask members of congress about the books they are reading. Joining us now on booktv is representative tom cole, republican from oklahoma. Weve asked you this question before. Youve always had a large reading list. Whats on your current reading list