Now a decision on how president johnson succeeded in getting medicare passed, taking a look at the political process 50 years ago. Speakers including his daughter linda johnsonrobb. Hosted by aspen institute, this is 50 minutes. Our first panel is lbj and passing medicare and medicaid, why johnson succeeded where others failed. He thought it important to look back at the complicated history and how difficult it was for previous administrations to enact legislation that so many of us now have for granted. Besides myself, it will include Lyndon Johnsonrobb. The former chair of the board for reading is fundamental, the nations largest childrens literary organization. She serves on the boards of education. Former first lady of virginia. And a proud alumnis of the university of texas, austin. Her husband, former senator and former governor chuck robb is here with us today. Linda will be joined by larry levinson, deputy special counsel to president johnson. He is a harvard law graduate and lawyer in private practice here in washington. And it is my pleasure to announce our first moderator, the great Bob Schieffer. All of of you know, bob is cbs news chief washington correspondent and the awardwinning host of face the nation. Bob made some news of his own when he announced he was stepping down soon from face the nation. Im hoping we will all help change his mind before lunch today. Bob has been a reporter more than half a century and virtually won every award in broadcast journalism during his career, including eight emmy awards. Please give a big round of applause for Bob Schieffer and our panelists. [ applause ]. Well, i want to tell you i announced last week i was going to retire at cbs news. 58 years since i got my first job in journalism. I think im an appropriate moderator to talk about how medicare got started. Next week im going down to sign up for part b. I would also just say this. You know, when i announced i was going to retire last week, im 78 years old. Thats about 13 years past the retirement age for most people. I would not be here after surviving cancer, after living with diabetes, after surviving Ulcerative Colitis if not for the health care we get in the United States of america. And i would just pose one question. What kind of a people would we be . What kind of a country would he be if we did not ensure that every single american has access to the same health care that i had and got me to the point where at age 78 i can say i still feel good. I still feel like i can do the job. But i just want to quit while i can still do the job. To me, what other argument needs to be made for the need to make Health Care Available for all americans. [ applause ]. Thank you. The year is 1964 and 1965 were two of the most remarkable years in the history of america. We remember president s for their signature accomplishment many times. Had you think of those two years and the significant pieces of legislation that were passed, including medicare, its very difficult to look back on any presidency and think about that. Just think about it. We have already come from 1964. In these days we talk about nothing is going to happen this year because its an election year. People think about 1964 was an election year. And they passed the first of the two well, later the Fair Housing Act in 1968. But that was only one part of this enormous amount of legislation that was passed. In 1965, in addition to passing the medicare you had Voting Rights, National Endowment for the humanities, clean air act, immigration act, and of course medicare and medicaid. It is not the first time, as we all know in this room, that people had tried, the president s had tried to pass some sort of medicare law. Fdr tried. He wasnt able to do it. Harry truman tried. He wasnt able to do it. But Lyndon Johnson managed to get it done. We want to start by showing you a few pictures what it was like that day this legislation was signed. Harry s. Truman library, independence, missouri, is the scene of an historic event. President is mrs. Johnson and Vice President humphrey arrive for ceremonies that will make the medicare bill part of Social Security coverage. Mr. Johnson chose to sign here as a tribute to former president truman. The former president campaigned for medicare 20 years ago but it took two decades for his proposal to become law. The new bill expands the 30yearold Social Security program to provide hospital care, nursing home care, home nursing service, and outpatient treatment for those over 65. Medicare would become law july 1st, 1966. And for mr. Truman, an historic souvenir from the president. For mr. Truman, the passage of medicare is a dream come true. There you are. What a remarkable day. And linda, i want to start with you. Why was this such a priority with your father . Well, daddy grew up in a world where he knew lots of people who had no choice when they got older. They lost the farm. They used everything they had to pay for their medical care. And then finally their only choice was to go to the poor house. And he had also seen what this had done to their families. Not just people my age, but their children. Where they had to make a decision, do we pay for grandmama to get the medical care she needs, or do we say we have got to take care of our own children so they can go to college, or they can stay in school. And it was devastating. We had a third of seniors who were living in poverty. And he recognized that there was a great need to do something about it. And he was an opportunist. And he recognized when he came in after that historic election where they had 70 new democratic members of congress. He knew this was the time to do it. And presumably there was a story about him. A lot of the stories are so good. Believe it or not, i was not there running the nation. I did not write this medicare and medicaid law. But it seems after the election, senator dirkson called me and congratulated him on winning this great election. And he said, now, i need to have this operation. But i want to wait and want to see if you are going to meet with the leadership. And if you are, you know, i will postpone this. And daddy presumably said, oh, irv, it is so wonderful that you and i can go and get that medical care paid for by the government. Now, wouldnt it be great if we can make it possible for everybody to be able to do that . And locked him in right then. Now, one of the things that daddy really believed in, two very important things. One, he was the opportunist. He knew when he could get something through and when he couldnt. And he recognized that compromise is not the enemy. And he was willing to make some of those compromises in order to be able to get the republicans and maybe more arch conservative democrats to sign on. One of the great stories, congressman mills, no, he wasnt going to let it out of his committee. But when he saw the votes come in and knew he could get it passed, his mother would say he jumped on it like a duck on a junebug. It was those kinds of things he recognized was crucial for the country, both for seniors and for their families. So you could build a stronger middleclass. He didnt devastate everybody when mother and daddy got old and needed it. And one of the things that i think you brought out so well, bob, is that it wasnt just when grandmama had the stroke, although that was a very important thing. It was when you got to the age it was so important you got the regular checkups. So you discovered the cancer, the diabetes, you discovered those things. In those days you couldnt afford to go and get that checkup. And so therefore you were going to have bigger bills. It was going to be worse. We werent going to catch it. And people like Bob Schieffer are going to live and be healthy now at 78 instead of having those problems when they were 62. I think i mean, to me, that was one of the things that as a political reporter that i also appreciated most about Lyndon Johnson. You are absolutely right, linda, in that he had number one, this ability to know how much and how far he could take the country. Which is why he split the civil rights bill into two bills. He knew they couldnt swallow that much in one gulp. So he divided it in two. But he had this great news judgment. Lbj could have been a great political reporter. He had been a great reporter. Because he could always figure out what the lead was. He kept those wire Service Machines going 24 hours a day in the oval office. He was the only president when did that. And when something happened, he knew in the best sense of the word what can we get out of this. It was the same thing when the civil rights problems were happening down in selma. And he called Martin Luther king and said, you know, he had told him find the worst place, where the worst things are happening. We will get all the reporters and the cameras down there. And he said that will give me the leverage i need to push this legislation through. Larry, what was it why did he decide to go after medicare . He obviously made the speech. It was part of his inaugural address in 1965. This goes back to johnson and his relationship with fdr. And it also tells you the story of two very important people, as chairman conyers will note. Wilbur mills, who we used to call him the one man veto on the ways and Means Committee. If you could not move him, you would never see medicare today. So the question was what would move wilbur k. Mills who came from a small town in rural arkansas. 7,500 folks in nessett, arkansas. How would they get wilbur off the dime and move my bill. The second is i have this can tankerous old guy who is on the rules committee. I cant get anything in the rules committee. So lbj had a real daunting task in front of him. And overarching all of this was the ama. They would send leaflets to every one of their doctors. You walk in as a patient and the doctor will say i may not see you next week because of this socialized medicine bill. What am i going to do . The patient was quivering, i cant see my doctor anymore. Some of the Senior Citizens got together and they said, you know, every time a patient walks into a doctor, lets give him something to the bible to quote back to the doctor. And so in a moment of concern when the patient walked in trembling and the doctor presented him with socialized medicine, the patient would squeak out, in the bible it is said that cast me not off in time of old age. Forget me not when my strength fails. That turned the doctors from red to blue. And they said, okay. So a couple of things happened. You have to move wilbur mills, you had to get smith out of the way, and you had to get ama pacified. A couple of things happened, as linda said. The elections of 1965 brought in a number of democrats into the house. They were now almost 300. And wilbur k. Mills from arkansas said, you know, i think i can get this bill through because i think its going to pass with 300 democrats in the house. And i have 68 members of the senate under a number of great Senate Leaders like harry bird and others. And so the climate in that moment was ripe. The majority in the house. The pendulum had swung in favor of the bill. How do i deal with old mr. Smith . Speaker mccormick came up with an in genius solution, which is the 21day rule, which is if you dont get the bill out of the rules committee in 21 days, its gone. Its passed. And so what lbj did, by the depth of his parliamentary knowledge, as you know, is to move away the legal and political obstacles to moving a bill through. Remember, you have to introduce a bill first. Then you have to have hearings. It has to be marked up. It has to come out of the committee. Then it has to go to the floor. But lbj, by miss mastery of the political machinery in the house, was able to move and remove the obstacles. Just one final note on that thought just to end it, he wanted to put a signature around the medicare bill. And he called it hr1 and s1 to show the priority of the bill. You know, i love hearing these stories. Because were so used to now that nobody that washington just doesnt seem to work anymore. And it doesnt. You know, but one of the reasons it doesnt is because johnson had such an intimate knowledge of the senate. He knew every member. And not just the ones that were on his side. Ive always thought one of his great strengths was he could not only explain to someone why they should be with him. But he could explain in ways they understood why it was not a good idea to be against him. And i always remember the story that joe flanner, who was one of his closest aides told about. He said once frank church was on the Foreign Relations committee and big critic of johnson. He was always coming in and quoting Walter Lipman, the leading columnist. Yes, but Walter Lipman says this and Walter Lipman says that. And lbj said the next time you need a dam on the snake river, why dont you call Walter Lipman. And frank church came around on that particular issue. What he also did, and i think this is the other part, is he knew what was important for that congressman, that senator in their district. Absolutely. And he cared about it. And he knew when he could horse trade. And he represented the commerce. And he knew you had to treat them as important people and insisted that all of this, and larry will tell you this, you answer the phone call of senator dirkson or congress, republican congressman same day as you did one days a the democratic congressman or democratic senators. That was a very important thing to know their pain. To know what was important to them. And one time you mentioned senator bird having these virginia connections myself now, i know a lot about senator bird. Senator bird, there was some vote coming up. And nobody thought he would ever vote for this bill. And someone said, well, why did you vote for it . And he said, well, when my niece died it was cold and ice was around and senator johnson was the only member who came to the funeral. And it was those personal relationships too. And it was interesting. I cannot tell you enough good things about that congress. They also knew that this was a historic year. And they were willing to risk their political lives. Last night i had dinner with governor sedalius. She said her father was elected in that 64 election. He voted for medicare. He came from a town or his district in ohio that had never elected a democrat. At least not in her lifetime. And he voted for medicare and he was voted out the next election. There were a lot of people like that. In virginia, there was a democratic only one member of the virginia delegation that voted for the Voting Rights act. He was voted out the next year. There were a lot of courageous people in that congress who voted and changed this country and made a difference in their one term than people who were there forever and ever. What we have to realize is this bill did change the way we look at it and the way we live. It was a civil rights bill too and it integrated our hospitals. I was looking back on some of the things daddy said in vantage point, his book. And he a talked about this woman in auburn, washington. She wrote and said i have never done anything as daring as writing to the top man of our wonderful country. But things are getting awful rough at our house now so im hoping you can get medicare real soon. You see, my husband for almost 46 years chuck and i have been going on 48 now. My husband of 46 years has had several strokes. We both had worked and bought land and were doing well. Then my husband became ill. I cant borrow because we have no way to repay. We have very fine children, but both have families and homes to keep up too. And we cant expect any Financial Aid from. Now, thats what we are talk building. What can we do for those people . And how can we make it possible for them to get that help, that help before they have those strokes sometime. And it was a wonderful time to live. And we were lucky to do it. And we couldnt have done it without that compromise in the congress, with republicans and the democrats both working together. And so the Congress Deserves a lot of credit. People like congressman conyers and former congressman dingell now. He just stepped down. But they were very active in getting this through when they were young men. Did you want to Say Something . Yeah. I want to add one note to what linda said. It was an epical moment. It took place in march. Hr1 had gone up. Nothing was happening. Lbj every day would go into the office and look at every committee special. He would get on the phone to larry obrien, chief of staff up on the hill. And he said, larry, nothing is moving here. What are you doing up there . Get wilbur up there and get something moving. There is nothing worse than a bill that sits and its not moving. Its like a dead cat on a porch in the summer. Move the bill. And there came a time just within that very narrow framework when sitting in the ways and Means Committee room, and if you have been up in the longworth building, it is still up in the back room. Counsel then, and two or three people sat down and created a law in about 15 minutes. Mills said, heres how were going to do it. Im going to take care of hospitalization. That will take care of the seniors. Mr. Burns, you want to include the doctors. Well do supplement al Medicare Part b. Over there, medically indigent, lets do medicaid. And they named the building after wilbur. And that bill was put together in about 15 minutes. Three layer cake. Medicare, medicaid, and the doctors hospitalization part b. And then they called lbj and said, mr. President , weve got it done. And wilbur began to explain it, wilbur mills. Speaker mccormick got on it. We pulled this out, mr. President. And the first thing lbj said was i dont want any hypochondriacs on that bill. And he said i knew you were going to ask that question. Let me explain why that wont happen. Well be able to control the costs. Well have the Insurance Companies in. Dont you worry, mr. President , no hypochondriacs. Some were really against it. And daddy said, now, we have had this war going on. We need some doctors over in vietnam. Are you all willing to talk to some of your doctors and see if we can get them to rotate in and rotate out . And the head of the ama said, yes, yes, mr. President. Were patriots. We certainly will be able to help on that. And daddy said, well, call in the press. So he calls in the press. They all come in. And the press said, well, what about medicare and medicaid . And daddy said, well, i just had mr. Such and such here. Hes a great patriot. And he said he is going to get these doctors to go in and help us in southeast asia. And were going to help all these people. And he said, theyre willing to go in there and risk their lives. Now, im sure that this is a law that they are going to obey the law. And the president , said, oh, yes, of course were going to obey the law. And that was the first endorsement of medicare by the american medical association. Thats right. They are willing to risk their lives. I know that they will do that. Certainly they wouldnt deny health care to people in this country if theyre willing to 68 mark, linda talk about the war a that was going on. 1965, there was a lot more than this piece of legislation. Just give us as a historian, what was happening in 1965 . And in the midst of it he was able to pass this legislation. Bob, its the thing is lbj knew the ephemeral nature. He earns the presidency in his own right in 1965 with the greatest landslide election. He realizes he sweeps into office along with twothirds majority in both the house and senate. He realizes he has this moment to get through all this legislation that had been piling up for years and no one had been able to get through, including medicare and medicaid. Lbj ultimately was a product of the new deal. He saw what the government could do in leveling the Playing Field during the course of the new deal. And he saw his presidency as a means by which to foreperson the revolution that had begun by franklin roosevelt. And as, bob, you enumerated, some remarkable things happened in 1965. Lbj never, ever rests. So in one year you get not only medicare and medicaid, you get elementary and secondary education and higher education. An infusion of federal aid to education for the first time in our history. You get the clean air act. And the highway beauty fiction act. It sounds cosmetic but is remarkably transform active environmentally. You get the immigration act of 1965, which is the most sweeping reform in the history of our nation. And fundamentally changes the heart and soul of america. And you get Voting Rights. The most important civil rights legislation ever to go on the books without which you would not have barack obama as the 44th president of the United States. In addition to that, you get the establishment of the department of housing and urban development. You have the implementation of upward bound and head start. This is one single year. And i would argue that it is the most important year legislatively in the history of our country. Perhaps even more so than the dell of Franklin Dell know roosevelts deal. Linda mentioned the great encounter with the ama. It stood in the way of medicare for so long was 95 opposed to the implementation of medicare. When those doctors came to the white house that day, the ama, they threatened to boycott to the tune of 95 of doctors refusing to do anything relating to medicare and medicaid. Within two weeks of that meeting that lyndon mentioned where the president of the ama was put firmly on the spot, 95 of all doctors actually upheld medicare and medicaid. That was the power of lbj. But ill mention one quick story if i may, bob. Wilbur mills, we talked about the very powerful chairman of the ways and Means Committee from arkansas, sort of legend y legendary. He made the bill stronger. Lbj had never seen this. When someone came to him and said, mr. President , chairman mills has actually strengthened the care bill, johnson said im going to get my brother. And the aides said why so, mr. President . And he said, well, theres an old joke about a fellow in my home city of johnson city, texas. And he was interviewing for a job as a switch operator on the railroad. And the fellow interviewing him said, well, what would happen if you saw two trains coming together where the threat of a collision was occurring . He said i would get my brother. The guy said, well, what do you mean . And he said well, my brother has never seen a train wreck before. And he said ive never seen a bill get stronger after being in committee. I just want to make a comment about the picture with president truman. You know, there was a big argument at the white house. I had just been there two weeks. And the question was, well, if i sign the bill here in the white house or go to the congress and sign it. All the advisers are saying you dont want to take a trip anymore. Do it here. All the pens were handed out. And he said, no, im going to see my old friend, president harry truman. We were all galvanized. And i got a call that said, see if any of the roosevelt kids are still around. If you can find one, send them down and we will work it out. We found james roosevelt, the grandson, who if you look on the attendance, showed up. Along with Vice President humphrey. What would happen when johnson came down, everybody applauded. And truman was beaming. And i just want you to hear this quote from harry truman as the torch passed from fdr, to truman, to johnson. Heres what truman said. Im glad you like the president. I lime him too. He is one of the finest men i ever ran across. And then there was this big applause. And lbj not only give the significant ceremonial pen, but he pulls out and he said, mr. President , heres your first medicare card. You dont have to fill out the form. If i may, the great thing about johnson too. Johnson understood how to get things done. He also understood how to get things done by giving credit to the other guy. This is recognizing Harry Trumans heroic efforts to pass medicare and failing. He goes down against the wishes of his advisers and signs it in Harry Trumans library. And he said, you know, people didnt love harry truman for giving him hell. People loved harry truman for giving him hope. And johnson knew the importance of giving that credit away. When the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed, it was a bipartisan bill. With we forget that today. It was absolutelily necessary to garner the support of the northern republicans in order to get it through. It was fundamentally important. So he needed to enlist the support of his old paul everett dirkson, the republican minority leader in congress. He calls him up. He was from illinois. And he said, you know, everett, i was just in your home state of illinois, land of lincoln, and youre worthy of being the land of lincoln 200 years from today, people will only know two fellows from illinois. Abraham lincoln and everett dirkson. Sure enough, when he signed the Civil Rights Act into law, he didnt give that first pen to abernathy, Martin Luther king he gave it to dirkson ensuring that he received proper credit for the bill. Your sister once told me she once asked him why did you give that pen to everett dirkson. And he replied, without him we would have had a piece of legislation. With him we have a law. Absolutely. And he also said dr. King was already for this bill. Everett dirkson had to we had to really talk him into it. And, you know, its not just the south where you had strong civil rights objections. Believe me. It was in kay row, illinois. It was in lots of different places in the north and in the west. And daddy knew that made the difference. And he knew you wanted to have those republicans. Just as you needed to have the republicans sign on for the medicare and medicaid. Because theyre going back to their districts. And you want to make sure the states sign up for that medicaid. And that those governors do what theyre supposed to do with that. Larry, what was it and i always enjoyed and ive known a lot of the people that worked for him. What was it like to work for him . You want me to answer that question . Yeah. I was at the pentagon, and then i was assigned to the white house. Johnson always said i have a small white house staff until you look around and you see all these people in the west wing and the east wing. Well, they werent phones from texas. He would get on the phone and say i want two or three of the smartest folks from hew, send them over there. Bob mcnamara, bring over. I want my staff to be full of people who come from the government, that understand how government works. When youre at the white house, you only would know that at 11 00 at night when you got home and you turn on the television, the most magical thing that ever happened, i worked on that during the day. There it is on Live Television at 11 00 at night. It was astounding what you did during the day for those 10 hours you were devoted to moving legislation through. Just one last item on that legislation. Pause i want everybody to remember this. When the democrats got that big majority, as mark said, the problem with the ways and Means Committee was always 1510. Mills would sit there and gnarl and say im not going to get this through. And lbj said the more democrats that come in, you have to change the composition of the ways and Means Committee. Instead of being at 15 10, you have to move it around to be able to get that vote. Mccormick said, i dont think i could do that. About 24 hours later a bus arrived from massachusetts with 100 Senior Citizens who camped out in front of the office and said change the alignment, change the alignment. Those are the stories when you put them all together, you really understand how it became law. By the way, it was 89th congress. And medicare was 8997. So months, 97 bill. Did Lyndon Johnson amassthis encyclopedia knowledge of the congress, how it worked. He knew how the senate worked. As linda has said, he knew each and every member. He knew what they needed. He knew what they didnt want anybody to know. I mean, the part that i find is just how in a day key do what he did. And how did he come to know so much about each and every member . You named this. He had this aoe encyclopedia knowledge. He knew it motivated you. He knew what might motivate bob is what might motivate linda or larry. He got that. And he used it. He exploited it. Theres this expression that the people are motivated by either love or fear. And you need to know the right combination in order to get them to act. Lbj got that. And he used to apply something legendarily known as the johnson treatment. Johnson was a master of that. And he used a combination of flattery, cajoling or whatever it took to get someone to his side. The adjective you often hear associated with johnson is is ruthless. But i contest that. I dont think johnson was ruthless at all. I think he was too smart to be ruthless. Because he knew washington at that time, if you ran over somebody, if you were ruthless, you wouldnt be able to get them over to your side in the future. He needed those folks in the future. So he only pushed them far enough to order not to alien ate them. Thats his mastery. He got that more than anybody. I think thats very important. He was a master. One of the things he understood is todays enemy, todays opponent may be tomorrow as colleague. And maybe the person you need tomorrow. One of the great truths of on washington i think and i think one of the wisest thing Lyndon Johnson ever said, he said to one of his aides one time, never tell a man to go to hell unless you know how to put him there. And ive always thought the advice i would give to any young person, always remember that. And let me just add one thing about you were talking about the johnson treatment. What i think a lot of people dont understand is the johnson treatment was not just something that happened in the moment. It was something that had a background and a predicate to it. And it had something that came after it. Because you could say many things about lynn dan johnsdon thats the way it was, and it didnt change. And i always go back to the story that one of my great friends in life was a man named bill stuckey. You all heard about all the Stores Spread across the south. He was elected to congress when he was a young man. In those days there was no Republican Party in georgia. He was from georgia. So when he won the democratic primary, that night one of the first calls that came in to this kid from georgia who just won the democratic primary was from the white house. And it was one of president johnson iss aides that said the president would like to talk to you. And bill said, well, of course i would love to talk to the president. He thought he was coming on the line. And he said, no, no. The president wants to talk to you in person. And he said, were going to send an airplane down to Warner Robbins air force base tomorrow. And the president wants to talk to you. So bill reported to Warner Robbins air force base. A government plane was there. It flew him back to Andrews Air Force base. He got out of that plane. The helicopter was waiting there. He got into the helicopter. He was flown to the south lawn of the white house. When it landed, a president ial aide, who later became a u. S. Attorney Harold Sanders greeted him on the south lawn and said youre mr. Stuckey . Yes, i am. Come here. Led him directly into the on oval officement the first person he saw was the towering Lyndon Johnson, who walked up, put his arms around him and said, son, im really going to need your help. Bill stuckey told me he never voted against him once the entire time he was in congress. But thats what the johnson treatment was about. Let me just tell you another story. And the daddy remembered the republicans that he served with too. And there was this congressman, republican congressman elected from houston. And his name was george bush. And so daddy called and asked him to come to the white house. This new congressman, who was a republican. And he had this one on one with george bush. Because he remembered serving with bushs father. And so he wanted to honor him because of his father. And when daddy left in january of 69 and we were not as popular as we were in 65, we all went out you to Andrews Air Force base to get on that airplane and go back to texas. And who came to
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