Medic service during the vietnam war, racial tension, and being wounded in battle. The interview is about 70 minutes. Pointare here at the west center for oral history studio with mr. Ry 23, 2015 henry james thomas. Hello, mr. Thomas. Hank hi, how are you doing . We are very happy to have the chance to talk to you today. Bityou tell me a little about your childhood . I am interested because it seems your independent fighting spirit seemed to emerge earlier than most. Hank yes. Childhoodrt of my and georgia, in the middle part of georgia. I was born in jacksonville, florida, and i think from age wasably three to eight spent in georgia. Considered middle georgia, not are from augustine, georgia. After that, i went with my family to saint augustine, florida, and that is where i came of age as a teenager. Activism very early. An innate sense of what was right and what was wrong, and i dont know exactly where i got that from. Andidea of segregation things that white people could do and black people could not do, i understood very early. Maybe as early as 7, 8 years old, that there was something wrong with that. Obviously i wasnt capable of any deep philosophical thinking, it is just that, why cant we go there and the white folks can . Or why are we poorer than white people . Those were things as a child that concerns me. I did have one incident in georgia wherein i guess i violated a very sacred and life endangering taboo. I put my hands on a white woman. We were in a store with very narrow aisles, and i was coming down the aisle and she was coming up the aisle. It was such that you had to turn it sideways to get past each other. I took a right to go past and she took a right. It was that two for two dance. Finally, she put her hands on my a smile and said, stand here and let me scoot past you. When my friends saw that, they were scared out of their wits. And they ran out of the store home. I am thinking, what in the world has going on . Have they done something wrong . I am running behind them and by the time we got back to where we lived, they ran home and told her mother that i had touched a white woman. I still did not understand what that meant. My mother knew what that meant and she immediately grabs me and hugged me and started praying. I still dont understand didnt understand what was going on. About a week later, the ku klux klan paraded through our community, and they did that at night. They would turn the light on in their car and to sit in their cars and drive to the neighborhood in their robes. I still didnt know what was going on. But later i learned that there had been cases where black boys as old as i am had been killed because they had touched a white woman. Once again, i just shrugged my shoulders. I didnt understand why. In florida, you had the colored and white signs, especially at the drinking fountain. And i naively wanted to know what color was the water in the colored fountain. Of course, i drink from the colored fountain. We had a small bus company in a sane artist in, florida. In the saint augustine, florida. I almost never sat in that the back. Saint augustine was almost like any other town. In montgomery, there is a chance i could have been killed. I had a reputation so i guess people dismissed my actions that kind of way. But i always knew this whole thing about segregation and what white folks could do and black folks could not do i knew there was something wrong with that. It was not until many, many years later, i think i am in my 40s, when i attended a funeral of a relative of mine in georgia. Outside the church was a cemetery, and a lady who has since passed who was the oral historian for our family to be to the cemetery and had me walk among the tombstones. And i am reading the names of people who had died many years ago. She brought me to a tombstone born 1827, died 1907. And she told me the story of this lady. This lady was the most whipped slave and all of that particular county. And what happened to her, as it was related to me, was one day she was working in the fields. A tall lady for those times. She may have been five feet six inches tall. The owner of the farm where they were slaves sent for her to come into the house. It seems that everybody knew what that meant. That meant she was going to be eventually raped by the owner of the farm. After she was working there for maybe a few weeks, he attempted to rape her. She fought him off. That in itself was a capital offense. To the middleout of the yard, tied to the whipping post, and went so badly and whipped so badly she was not able to go back to the work in the fields for a week or so. Once she healed, went to the fields. After a matter of weeks, she was sent for again. Again, she went to the house and after a period of time, he attempted to raped her at to rape her again. And again to she fought him off. Again, she was whipped severely. A third time when she was sent for, she went to the whipping post and tied herself to the whipping post. And when the women of the field saw that, they all came from the field and surrounded her. And of course, she was not whipped. Was standing there and my cousin said, introduce yourself. I said, introduce myself . He said yes, introduce yourself. I said, maam, my name is henry james thomas. Greate said, this is your great great grandson, henry james. I lost it. I fell down on my knees and was crying. I am so i said to her, sorry i was not there to protect you. And she, my cousin, looked at me and said, you see . I asked how many times i had been arrested. I said 22 times. She said, white folks had been whipping you, too, but you didnt give up your manhood . She didnt give up her man she didnt give up her womanhood. That is when i learned something about my family. Probably once a year, the town is 3 hours drive from atlanta. I go to her great i go to her grave and i talked to her. Host was she on your mothers side or your fathers side . Hank my fathers side. That is where i get my rebellion from. Host digit parents talk to you about these things at all . Hank no. They did not talk to their children about slavery. Dont think many Holocaust Survivors talk to their children. It was a matter of shame and a matter of revisiting something that was awful. Talk to my when i mother about that particular story, she was just silent. It. Oubt she had heard about the complete irony is that particular farm where my family was held as slaves is now owned by one of my family members. The one, the historian who died early last year. Particular, and we have on my fathers side some of our family reunions there. She was constantly try to get me to spend the night in that house and i told her, im sorry. I cant do that. The familyny is that member owned that because obviously over the years, whoever owns it from the white side fell into some Financial Difficulties and either had to sell it or be sold for taxes. Host when did you graduate from high school . Hank 1959. Host and did you go to college . Hank harvard university, and that is where i got started in an organized fashion and the Civil Rights Movements, 1960. Host what was going on in the school . Was this something that you found yourself in an environment which was supporting ideas that you had . I imagine you were chomping at the bit. Hank absolutely. That is the way to describe it. September 1, when the students sat down at the lunch counter and came on the 6 00 news that this had happened, i remember sitting in. We had one room in a dorm where there was a tv. Basement ofin the what we called the day room or the activity room. I am watching this on a particular channel, and they talked about what these students did and i remember jumping up and saying, yeah, weve got to do the same thing. The city of d. C. Had a public accommodations law. Write to the south is virginia, segregation. To the north and east is maryland, segregation. So while we could go to any restaurant in d. C. , just a few minutes away, we could not. We got started and i helped organize the first chapter of the nonviolent action group, which we called n. A. G. , and every week we would go to either virginia or maryland to do citizens. I think sometime to do sit ins. We were protesting racism at a movie theater. Wasas, like you said, i chomping at the bit. It was tailormade for me. Host you got involved fairly early. How did that happen . Howard had university had the second largest student protest group. Tennessee state had by far the largest. All during the month of february, march, and up to ,pril, a lot of the colleges historically black colleges throughout the south, where having some form of demonstration and sit ins. Ellen baker, who at that time c, cameember of the slc up with the idea that all of the students who were involved and needed to be some coordinated effort. So she organized this are students to come to raleigh, north carolina. And we did, and that weekend, we met students from Tennessee State, Fisk University, spellman. All of us came together and that is when miss baker said we should form our own organization. So the various organizations that they had at this campus, we decided to form one group, and it was called the student nonviolent coordinating committee. Nac. Is the acronym for s we folded our organization into that one organization. That is how we became. Host that is when you were a freshman . Hank yes. Host i was just her is your academic side of your College Curious about the academic side of your college years. Hank i left home with the idea of becoming a doctor. There was a lady who lived across the street, a lady who also had a little private school. , andlled her mama joshua she thought i was a pretty smart kid because i memorized the books of the bible record than any other kid. To this day, i can still recite a few of them. Everything was done in the form of singing. Exodus,nesis, leviticus, numbers, deuteronomy. She thought i was pretty smart. She said, you need to go to school to be a doctor so you can come back here and take care of me and my sister. So i left Howard University with the idea of becoming a doctor. The first time i was arrested, i was in jail. The heck with being a doctor, i am going to be a lawyer because i need to fight this injustice. [laughter] idea. That was the i was never a real stellar academic scholar in the classroom. I had to work harder than anyone else just to get a c out of a class. But that is when i got thoroughly involved, and i guess you can say i realized what my calling was. Host when did you first year about the freedom riders . Hank 1961, because we got started in may of 1961. I think i got the flour or the news the flyer or the news about it probably in march. They were looking for someone at least 21 years of age or older, and of course i was only 19. So my roommate, john moody, who had spent 10 years in the air force and came to howard, so he was 10 years older than myself, he had also volunteered and he was selected to go. Obviously, he was over 21. I think two days before we were supposed to report to a friends Retreat Center there in northern virginia, he got sick and he could not go. And then he said to me, why dont you just go . Age andways big for my people always thought i was older than i appeared. So i showed up and told them the story. And i did not tell them how old i was, however. And theled out the form part where it says age and date of birth, i left it blank. I was accepted. It was an oversight on someones part. Two days into the training, somebody asked me again how old was i, because i forgot i had left it. I said 19, and they said, oh my gosh. But it was too late then. I said, i am 19 but i act 30. [laughter] hank and that is how i got selected for the freedom ride. Host how long was the training . What was the training . Hank i thought it was at least two weeks. I have since learned that it was probably only a week that we were training. And in that section of northern virginia, even though it was said to be more liberal than the rest of the country, still people were not ready for blacks and whites to be meeting under the same roof and certainly sleeping under the same roof. We had some trouble with the local authorities when they it. D out we were doing fire inspectors got there, found all kinds of dilations. All kinds of violations. Police started giving speeding tickets to people coming and going. In other words, we got properly harassed by the authorities. But that was only about three days prior to our completion of the training. So we did, and none of us got arrested there in northern virginia. Host how many were training . Was it enough for the first couple of rides . Hank we had 13 training. Six whites and seven blacks. For may 4 is when we when we left washington dc. Our first stop was richmond, virginia. Host you must have been excited and scared. Hank excited, but not scared. I had no idea what i was getting into, what we were getting into. 19, you thrive on either the perception of danger. You are used to breaking the roles, all of that. So i had no idea. And especially in richmond, virginia. Nothing happened. The people there acted decent. The fbi knew everything we were doing. I have since learned of the kind of dirty tricks that J Edgar Hoover tried to play on us and succeeded in some instances. But the next stop was charlotte, north carolina. Once again, no problems. We used the bus the bus stations were integrated and we had no problem. It was when we went to south carolina, that was the first incidents of violence. One man was beaten pretty badly. Stopped a bus that was in south carolina. Another man was beaten pretty badly when he got off the bus. But i was not physically attacked. The Police Arrested me and in the night, they took me out to a klan mob. The deal was they did not book me into the station, there is nothing on the records indicating i had ever been arrested. And because the idea was to deliver me to the klan and the and theld kill me, police would say, ive never heard of him, we never arrested him, we have no record of him ever being in rockhill. I was rescued a black man who had watched the police and had to, ifsigned by corps anybody is arrested, to report back. And he had been watching the police, and when i was ordered out of the police car at gunpoint, i had to run from the mob and he drove up beside me as i was running and told me to jump in the back seat and get down on the floor. And that is how i escaped from winnsboro, south carolina. Host do you still know that man . Hank i never knew his name. I have tried all these years, and i am pretty sure he has passed. The city of winnsboro is inviting me back, and i said, let bygones the bygones, right guys . The police chief is an africanamerican. They are having it will come back event after 35 years. That will take place sometime next month or in april. They arethats it. Host amazing. So the ride continued. Hank it continued. We caught up with the group in atlanta, georgia. And we were warned and advised by dr. King and his folks, you need to stop this ride because you are going into alabama and it is a hotbed of klan activity, and someone is liable to get killed. Was missing for a period of 24 hours, they thought for sure that i had been killed. Because when they called rock hill to inquire about my whereabouts, the police said, we dont know what you are talking about. And that was a very good indication there that they had done something to him. , iwhen i showed up again didnt think it was such a big deal after i escaped. [laughter] hank they were just happy to see me. And obviously, they had to do some thinking. Should we continue with this ride . And of course my answer was, of course we are going to continue. And so, we went on into aniston. When we got into the city, the streets were deserted. And we turned the corner of the street leading to the bus station, and there was a mob gathered at the bus station. And when the bus pulled in, they were yelling and screaming. The bus driver had brought them the freedom riders, and they were going to take over. They started breaking out the windows, and the bus driver had locked the door as he escaped from the bus so they could not get in the door. At after it while of eating on the bus and after a while of beating on the bus and rocking it, Robert Kennedy had contacted the governor and the president of greyhound that the freedom riders were trapped in alice n anniston, alabama, so you have to get them out of there. The bus driver got on the bus and tried to drive away. There was a lot of cars behind him and cars in front of him that would not let the bus thn 15b go more miles an hour. Ire had been punctured, tw a tire had been punctured, two tires had been cut. The bus stopped at a Country Store along the highway. , and theyb was there continued the job of beating on the bus. They had their children and their wives with them. They had come to see the freedom riders get lynched. An incendiary device was thrown onto the bus in an open window. The bus ignited in fire. The thing that saved us, because they held the door shut as the bus was burning. They were saying, lets burn these niggers alive. The flames reached the fuel tank and blew out the back of the bus and everyone scattered. That is the way we were able to get off that bus. And the mob followed us to the hospital. After the attorney general pleaded with governor paterson to provide Police Escorts to take us to the hospital, they came to the hospital, asking the hospital to put us out. And the hospital did not have to refuse, because we were not going to leave the hospital. They threatened to burn the hospital down. Finally, governor paterson agreed that three other men could drive cars it could have been four to anniston, alabama to rescue us. Host i read that rescue was an armed rescue. Do you remember that . Hank i know one man told his people to bring arms. I remember hearing a couple of the people said, to hell with that. Becauseught their guns if we had been stopped by any of those mobs, they had to do something to protect us. But we also found out, and i had the chance to talk to John Patterson the governor, he is still alive and i think he is 93 years old. She had a lunch with us and asked for forgiveness, said they asked to pose for a picture with me. Asked me if he could take a picture with me, and i have that picture at my house with him and my daughter. So he said he was sorry and he apologized, he was wrong. And as you probably know, George Wallace before he died went to a white church and asked for forgiveness. But that is how we got out of aniston. Some of those men say they had weapons said they had weapons. Host were you injured during this process . Hank we all suffered from smoke inhalation. Smokeou get that kind of in your lungs, it takes some time, a few days, to get out. And that is a horrible feeling. I was hit probably with a baseball bat as i came stumbling off of the bus. He asked me, are you all right . And i am thinking, somebody is concerned. And i knew, i was on the ground because he hit me. There is a picture of a Police Officer and an Alabama State trooper standing beside me as i am on the ground. They did absolutely nothing to protect us. But that is the only injury i had. Host when john lewis was hurt a few days earlier, was he with you . Hank no, he was physically and no shape to continue. He later joined the group and montgomery prior to us going to the ride did continue . What was next . Guest the students from Fisk University and Tennessee State heard that we could no longer continue the ride. They took up the cause. They started the ride again with a group of them from Tennessee State from nashville. They decided to come to montgomery. They got the crappy out of them they got the crap beat out of them as well. The mob just attack them. The Montgomery Police told the ku klux klan that when the freedom riders come to town, you have 15 minutes to do what you want to go what you want to do. After that, we will have to move in. In those 15 minutes, they almost killed some of the freedom writers. John gonzales, seegenthauler was beaten and knocked out. Robert fg else moved kennedy to act, that is when he got on the phone and told the governor of alabama that president vanity is going to nationalize the president kennedy is going to nationalize the print nationalize the national guard. Meetingser, in reunion , we all went up to him and hugged him for sacrificing his head for the cause. If he had not been knocked out newspaper photographs clearly showing him sprawled on the sidewalk, you are the cause of us getting rescued and we appreciate it. Host this is may. Youre supposed to be in school going during this time . Did you go back to school . Host eventually. Ireedom rides and did went back to school in 1962. That is when the army came looking for me. Host tell me about that. Guest at that time, the draft boards were using their powers to punish people who had been involved in civil rights. The way they did that was to drop you into the army. If you were from piedmont, alabama and you were in school in nashville, there was a good possibility you did not notify the draft board you were in nashville. The no the law stated that when you leave a particular jurisdiction, you are to notify the draft board. Few of us did that. Notify the draft board, you are immediately subject to being called up or inducted to the army. Inn i got my notice washington, i knew what that meant. Thinking, and i was told if you go and present yourself to the local recruiter, event are no longer in violation. At least you have an opportunity to select what occupation you want in the army. You are going to be in the army. I do not necessarily want to go into combat. I did not necessarily want to go to combat. I said i wanted to become a medic. I thought that meant i was going to be working in a hospital. Little did i know that the infantry needs medics on the battlefield. That is what i found out the hard way. I was going to be where the action was. Host so you went back to school in 1962 and the draft board contacted you and then after the school year, guest i finished that school year. 1963, i present myself for the draft and was inducted into the army. There is only those 16,000 advisors in vietnam in 1963. Guest they kept increasing each month. 1963, i am at fort jackson. I went to jackson, Fort Sam Houston in san antonio for my medical training. Training, i knew that you could make an extra 55 a month. I was already married. That was a huge amount of money. I volunteered for the airborne. I became an airborne soldier. 55 getting a next her 55 a month and a promotion which meant an extra 30 a month, which was a lot of money for me at the time. I was then sent to fort benning for my airborne training. It was there that the new air cap or unit was formed. They call it the airmobile unit. This whole concept of using helicopters as vehicles instead of trucks and things of this nature. Septembervietnam in of 1965 with the air cavalry unit. At the endin vietnam of september. By the middle of november, i was in battle. Host want to back up a little bit. I was wondering how you felt about this. This is the moment when the Civil Rights Movement is and you the country have to go off. Guest i was conflicted. What do i do . My grandfather served in world war i. My father served in world war ii. Men wheneverack it was military service you hoped would confirm your bona fides as a firstclass, redblooded american citizen. Even though you knew that was not the case. The 10th of the calvary. That was not the case of the black soldiers who served in the civil war. I will. 15 of the Union Soldiers were black. One point 50 at of the Union Soldiers were black. Same way. Felt the you wanted an opportunity to prove that you are truly an american. Had when iconflict i went to vietnam. There was more than once in vietnam that im thinking what am i doing here . I am reading about all the stuff going on back home. For me, and the other black vietnam vets, the country was changing. It did change. We still had some problems there in vietnam and black soldiers in came back and 60 bit 1966 and 1967 had lots of problems that they were nowhere near the intensity of illtreatment that will toward two black veterans that world war ii black veterans suffered. Host were redeployed in vietnam . Where were you deployed in being non . Guest i was in the central highlands. Related in a city called chignon. November of that year was the year that the first large American Unit had contact with the north vietnamese unit in what was called the battle of the entering valley. There is a movie about it. Somebody asked did i see mel gibson over there . I said no, i did not get a chance to see no gibson. I understand he won that war for us the. I was at the tail and of that battle i was at the tail end of that battle. By this time i was a senior medic. Three of the medic serving under me were killed. Two of them were killed on the same day of that particular battle. That was one of those days i heard about them being killed. I was at Headquarters Company. The two that were killed were both 18yearold white boys. I emphasize the fact that they were white because for the first sure they life, im first time for other black soldiers, they had the chance to interact with other whites on an equal level. Not on a subservient level. These young white boys i was 22 at the time. For them, i was an old guy. They looked at me as being their protector. I dont know why. Maybe because of my age. I never had any problems with them following my directions. When i found out that they had thatkilled in that battle, was a pretty difficult thing for me. How did you feel about the war in particular . I understand the idea of service you had a hope that that would be meaningful. What did you think about the war . Guest you didnt think that much about the politics of the war. You are concerned about staying alive. Especially if you were in frontline combat. Going out on patrols and people around you are getting killed. You think about staying alive. The politics of it. The fact that you are there. There were a times that i kept saying what am i doing here . How am i get home . How my going to be received when i get home . I had my problems with whites in vietnam as a lot of blacks did. You had these white southerners who came in with these particular attitudes in terms of the officers who were in charge. To havein threatened the court marshaled a couple of times while i was over there. He was from mississippi. He brought his own prejudices into the company. There were some Serious Problems in vietnam. Especially after the cat after the tet. Problems. That threaten to tear the army apart and ruined its effectiveness. There were a couple of times where jr. Officers and firstly tenets or even captains would not take their men out on patrol. I remember cbs interviewing one lieutenant. He refused to take his unit out on patrol. He disobeyed our direct order. He simply told the reporter that when we go out, i do not know who is going to be shooting at who. That is how bad the racial situation had gotten. You had some whites who came in and did not realize that when you use the and word the n word toward a black, you could have some Serious Problems. The army saw that it had a problem. It had to do something. Indeed, they did. What they found out was, i think only about 2 of the officers in vietnam were africanamerican. During the first part of the 26 of65 to 1966, 25 to the kias were africanamericans. That became a problem. The word cannon fodder. That was not the situation. Generallyericans preferred and went to the combat arms. That was where you got the rank. The rank came down first to the combat arms. You had a chance of making ranked 30 fast pretty fast. Those were the elite units of the army at that time. Lot of us were gung ho we were predominate in the airborne unit. We wanted the chance to prove that we were good and that we would fight for our country. The downside of it was that when it was time to give out the metals, that was when i began to get into trouble. Blacks were not getting the medals. That was one of the issues with my captain. I am confronting this dip them as diplomatically as i could, a captain as to why there were no blacks eating metals. All of the medals were given to the whites. I guess my tone accused him. I had asked some what some white blacks were not getting medals. Nothing ever became of it. Ist was the basic of that the captain. Of course, i request that permission to go to the high chief. Once again, you just dont do that. You are saying that you have no faith in his particular leadership. That is when i began to have my problem. Another incident that happened was some of the white soldiers had sent home and asked their relatives to send them Confederate Flags. One day, at our company headquarters, a Confederate Flag was wasted instead was hoisted instead of old glory. Reputation as the guy who did not give a dam. I saw this rebel flag hanging. I got my m16. Forgot about three or four magazines i got about three or four magazines. I put that sucker on automatic. I fired a magazine. Everybody started running at the same time. Wondering what the heck is going on. I emptied that magazine and put in another one. Finally, that flag came down. I walked calmly back to my tent. Of course, the captain sent for me. It,t the m16, shouldered and went to see the captain. He told me not to do it again. I became a hero to the black soldiers. There were a few other incidents that we had to contend with as well. Host was that the captain from mississippi . He only told you not to do it again . Think he wanted to tell me anything else at that particular moment. Way. Just put it that host i was going to ask you how did you cope with your rebellious streak while you were in the military . Of early had plenty guest i wanted to stay in the military. I had qualified to go to 80 to aviation school. Warrant. Become a ward officer become a warrant officer. I look at my possibilities of becoming employed. Staying in the military was very attractive. The problem was, my captain was not going to recommend me for going to aviation school. And other little incident happened. The supply sergeant who was from mississippi i dont know if they still are today but they are notorious for being scroungers. They were criminals. Supply sergeants were criminals. They could do all kinds of things. Initially of it was hit and miss. Some of it was not suitable. One of the problems we had was with the boots. They would wear out immaturely as a result of the high humidity. We had to experiment with getting a boot that would last. Everybodys boots were wearing out. And then the army would send in the new boots. They would obviously come to Headquarters Company first. Tor job was to ship them out the other company. All the blacks in our company were not getting the boots. The white soldiers were. This is outrageous. The black soldiers came to me and said Sergeant Sherry is getting boots for the white guys and not us. I called outside and terry and said that the blacks are not getting any boots. Im not supposed to be talking to him the way i was. He just told me, at ease soldier. He said you need to mind your own business. I said you have any new boots back there . Before he could answer, i went behind the counter and tore open the lock off of the locker. A line of blacks were already behind me. I said, what size do you wear . I said im handing out boots to the blacks. Once again, this time the captain did tell me we were slated to go out on another patrol. On another big operation. He told me the next day i went to see you when you come back if you come back. What you mean if i come back . My days of remaining in the army i knew he would be happy when i would leave. Surprise, when i got my , none of thoses particular things were on their that he and threatened me with. Maybe he was glad to say good riddance. And that was it. Host can you tell us about how you were injured . Guest we went out to set up an ambush. Id always thought it was not a good idea to sneak up on the enemy. All these before had not worked out very well. Maybe we need to let them know that we are coming. They would say listen, its not worth it. We got up very early in the morning. Here is what i want you to think about. How can you sneak up on anybody with 25 helicopters . Tothought that we were going get there about 7 00 in the morning and set up an ambush along a well traveled vietnam trail. By the time we got there, and got set up, all hell broke loose. They were already there just waiting for us. I dont know why. They did not shoot down the choppers. They waited for the choppers to leave and let loose. The whole thing probably lasted about five or six minutes. To me, it seemed like forever. When it was over, i think about three of our guys were killed. Knocked down. Ng i knew i had been shot. Goes, if you can feel something, that means you are still alive. I know i have been shot, so im trying to figure out where i am shot. This particular hand had been knocked behind me. When i was able to remove my hand, it was uncontrollable. Shaking keep it from and bones were sticking up from my hand. They said the first thing i said was oh hell, im going home now. If you had that kind of wound, it would require extensive surgery that would send you home. I also had been hit in the chest as well. That particular wound i had a superstition. I was the most heavily armed medic in all of vietnam. My superstition was if i lowered myself down in addition to my medical supply with a 45, i had an m16, and i had the grenade launcher. People would ask me if i would carry this stuff, i would never have to use it. The ie bullets hit carried about 200 rounds of ammunition. Bullets hit one of the magazines. That was one of the things that saved me. When i got ready to treat a dier of. S let me get rid that was my superstition. Host when was the injury . Guest i got injured and of course everybody came running around me. All never forget the movie Hamburger Hill with the medic. I had the chance to meet courtney vance. I told them, do you realize you were me . He was that same kind of soldier. We laughed and reminisced. The soldiers all gathered around you when you were injured. They did the same thing with me. Im telling them to get away from me because all youre going to do is get me shot again. When the medic is hit, that has a psychological hit that effect. A big burly black eye came to me and said doc, youve been hit. I dont know if youre going to live or not. I say, thanks a lot. Of course, the chopper came down. We were in a mountainous area. The air was very thin. They loaded us onto the chopper. The chopper had trouble getting altitude. And oned out one end and my head laid out on the other end. They tried one time and came back down. They tried again. They finally got out of there. They got me to the hospital. I think from the time i was shot within 45 minutes, i was on the operating table at the hospital. Doctort morning, the came in who had operated on me and showed me the bullet here taken out of me. I wanted the bullet. He said im putting this in my office so that people understand. This is my trophy he said. I underwent one operation in vietnam and two more operations at walter we at walter reed. Host you mentioned you were married when you went to vietnam. Back, after you were injured, you came back to where . Guest i tried to go back to school at Howard University. Things i had to take care of with reference to my family, my oldest sister came to live with me in bc in d. C. To somebeen subject abuse by my stepfather. About i hadg a family that i now had to take care of. I could not do that by working a parttime job. I dropped out of school with the idea of coming back a little bit later on. Thed not have a lot of postcombat stress that some of the Vietnam Veterans had. I think mine was delayed if you will. I did see some things in vietnam that even today when i think about them, i get a little emotional. The number of civilians isil who were killed. Civilians the number of civilians who were killed. Civilians always get caught in the middle whether it was the north vietnamese or the south vietnamese. Accidental fire of artillery shells falling in the wrong village. They kill people. They kill children. Soldiersc, i saw other i saw some of this. , even today, many years after, there are few of those things that still haunt me in terms of civilians that were killed. There are times when my wife has to wake me up when im having nightmares. There were a couple of times when i got really scared because i woke up hitting her because i. As dreaming we had a problem with the m16 rifle when we first went over. We were told you dont put it on automatic fire because it will jam and it did jam. ,nytime i had these nightmares four or five north vietnamese soldiers coming at me and i make a mistake of putting the weapon on automatic fire and the first burst, the gun jams and now ive got to run or use a gun as a club to fight off the soldiers. Wifeight, i was hitting my. That scared the devil out of me. Its happened a couple of nights before. It she knows anytime im moving for shaking she will wake me up. As frequent. But those were the things that bothered me. Also, the fact that im treating somebody and running out of bandages and i cant stop the bleeding. Those are the recurring night tears that i have as well. When i first went to the wall after seeing soldiers get to the wall and emotionally breakdown, thats not going to happen to me. I did not go until about five years after it was there. When i got there and you see the names of those three medics of mine that were killed and one that was very close to me, alpha jackson, something about seeing those names, taking that piece of paper and graphite that that gave you, it gets to you. You see many War Memorials a not that many with the names there. Nameall out that persons and you look for the name of your buddy when you go to that wall. Sometimes. Gets to me sister, your stepsister came to visit with you. Total of two grown children and five. Randd and one great grand my sister has a daughter who was in the marines. Did two tumors i did two tours in vietnam. My family is a military family. We have several members who are in the military who have retired. We went through that period but i never did go back to school. Got started in business when i moved to atlanta. My mother wanted me to be a schoolteacher. Life. Ad a good living the American Dream and the american story. I first started off with operating a dairy queen restaurant. Queen imry caught a burger king, from burger king my first mcdonalds in 1982 and before i retired i wound up owning a total mcdonalds and marriott hotels. Living the american story, the American Dream. When you came back from the vietnam, did you rejoin the movement . On a different level. Im in business now and i have a family. I do things differently. Going out on demonstrations and going to jail, i did not do that. Tell some of my colleagues we get together, some of them would razz me by saying hank has gone over to the enemy. Hes become a capitalist. I said im still the revolutionary because the idea of a black man being business is a revolutionary idea so im still fighting the fight. Became successful in business. The thing my wife and i have done, we give back. Providing scholarships. Supporting worthy cause. I used to say to folks, some of my business colleagues, anytime we needed something in the black community that was for the good of the community we had to go to white folks for it. We have go to the man. I reminded them, those that were in business doing well, we are the man now. I am the man. When black kids need scholarships, when the schools need somebody to step up to the plate to finance various things, thats one of the things i do. Very proud of it. Do you mind talking about your stepfather . I dont mind. He was an individual. He never learned to read or write. He could fix practically anything. He can wire a house, fix a car. I used to say, had he gone to school he couldve been a mechanical engineer, electrical engineer. In this town of wadley, georgia, there was a sawmill. He kept all of that machinery going. Anytime the machinery broke down, lg was the man who would fix it. Man,would not call him a the boy would fix it. They would get him out of jail on saturday night so he would be in work monday morning. Nevermind that he drank all his earnings. They got him to work so he could fix whatever went wrong and this type of thing. He is to say things like when he got drunk, rather die and go to hell then be treated the way i was treated. I had no idea what he was talking about. None of us knew what he was talking about. As i understood later what black men went through, he is talking about the way he was being treated. Here he was, and intelligent man in terms of his skills, and he was probably being paid just enough to keep his family from starving. E drank even though the county we lived in was a dry county the sheriff on all of the shop houses the shot houses, the homemade moonshine and whatever. He was never treated like a man. , you take that hurt that you feel, and you are it to the people who are closest to you. He was a black man who did not know how to show love to his family. He only knew the way he had been treated. Later, while i could not forgive him for what he had done to me and his family , years later, i understood. The one regret i had, i said i never got the chance to tell him that i for gave him. I did not forget, but i forgive him for what he did to me and my mother and the rest of his. Amily now day and a court of law they would say he was temporarily insane. And he was. And thats what happened so many black men. When you understood what happened during slavery and during the jim crow era, it is an absolute wonder that every black man was not crazy because of the way they were treated and the family suffered. How did your mother deal with the . In a stoic way, the way all black women deal with it. She felt it was gods will. Did not like it but it was gods way of punishing her and that eventually my mother is very religious woman. Always her conversation with me is are you going to church. She knows im not. ,o rather than to lie to her maybe next week. Thats the way she dealt with it. She just said it was the lords will and best the way she still feels about it today. I understand you started working at a very underage. At a very young age. What was your first job . Picking cotton. I mustve been seven or eight. My mother made the cotton sack for me. In that area of the country black did not go to school until generally november. Thats after all the crops were in. Latekids went to school august, september. But we had to get the crops in. And it was cotton in that portion of georgia. Some other area, it was potatoes or picking beans. Education took a back seat to. Hat the farmer is needed all of the money, which may have been a dollar a day, ive put it on the table and that was the money that was used to buy groceries. Especially when lg drank all of the money. Reading your biography as a young man, one thing emerges. Youthe discipline that learned during the freedom rides help prepare you for what was needed in the army and combat . I dont necessarily think so. One of the things im grateful , i always had a sense of right and wrong at an early age. I always knew where i was was not where i was going to be and i knew that education was the key. My mother taught me that. I learned how to read before i went to school. My mother only had to sit through education. I was reading of the time i was four. I have this inner sense of discipline i now attribute to the genes i inherited. This woman, right after slavery, the emancipation proclamation, with two or three other people organize a church of ways. Of ground that they bought. This woman had this kind of of knowingand sense things are supposed to be. I credit that to the genes of proceeds from