Transcripts For CSPAN3 Oral Histories Hank Thomas West Point Interview 20180218

Than most. Hank yes. I spent part of my childhood in georgia, in the middle part of georgia. I was born in jacksonville, florida, and i think from age probably three to eight was spent in georgia. An area considered middle georgia, not are from augustine, georgia. After that, i went with my family to saint augustine, florida, and that is where i came of age as a teenager. I came by my activism very early. I always had an innate sense of what was right and what was wrong, and i dont know exactly where i got that from. The idea of segregation and things that white people could do and black people could not do, i understood very early. Maybe as early as 7, 8 years old, that there was something wrong with that. Obviously i wasnt capable of any deep philosophical thinking, it is just that, why cant we go there and the white folks can . Or why are we poorer than white people . Those were things as a child that concerned me. I did have one incident in georgia wherein i guess i violated a very sacred and life endangering taboo. I put my hands on a white woman. We were in a store with very narrow aisles, and i was coming down the aisle and she was coming up the aisle. It was such that you had to turn it sideways to get past each other. I took a right to go past and she took a right. It was that two for two dance. Finally, she put her hands on my shoulder with a smile and said, stand here and let me scoot past you. When my friends saw that, they were scared out of their wits. And they ran out of the store home. I am thinking, what in the world is going on . Have they done something wrong . I am running behind them and by the time we got back to where we lived, they ran home and told my mother that i had touched a white woman. I still did not understand what that meant. My mother knew what that meant and she immediately grabbed me and hugged me and started praying. I still didnt understand what was going on. About a week later, the ku klux klan paraded through our community, and they did that at night. They would turn the light on in their car and sit in their cars and drive through the neighborhood in their robes. I still didnt know what was going on. But later i learned that there had been cases where black boys as old as i am had been killed because they had touched a white woman. Once again, i just shrugged my shoulders. I didnt understand why. In florida, you had the colored and white signs, especially at the drinking fountain. And i naively wanted to know what color was the water in the colored fountain. Of course, i drink from the colored fountain. We had a small bus company in the saint augustine, florida. I almost never sat in the back. Saint augustine was almost like any other town. If i had lived in montgomery, there is a chance i could have been killed. I had a reputation so i guess people dismissed my actions that kind of way. But i always knew this whole thing about segregation and what white folks could do and black folks could not do, i knew there was something wrong with that. It was not until many, many years later, i think i am in my 40s, when i attended a funeral of a relative of mine in georgia. Outside the church was a cemetery, and a lady who has since passed who was the oral historian for our family, took me to the cemetery and had me walk among the tombstones. And i am reading the names of people who had died many years ago. She brought me to a tombstone that said, born 1827, died 1907. And she told me the story of this lady. This lady was the most whipped slave in all of that particular county. And what happened to her, as it was related to me, was one day she was working in the fields. A tall lady for those times. She may have been five feet six inches tall. The owner of the farm where they were slaves sent for her to come into the house. It seems that everybody knew what that meant. That meant she was going to be eventually raped by the owner of the farm. After she was working there for maybe a few weeks, he attempted to rape her. She fought him off. That in itself was a capital offense. She was taken out to the middle of the yard, tied to the whipping post, and whipped so badly she was not able to go back to the work in the fields for a week or so. Once she healed, went to the fields. After a matter of weeks, she was sent for again. Again, she went to the house and after a period of time, he attempted to rape her again. And again, she fought him off. Again, she was whipped severely. A third time when she was sent for, she went to the whipping post and tied herself to the whipping post. And when the women of the field saw that, they all came from the field and surrounded her. And of course, she was not whipped. And so, i was standing there and my cousin said, introduce yourself. I said, introduce myself . He said yes, introduce yourself. I said, maam, my name is henry james thomas. And she said, this is your great great great grandson, henry james. I lost it. I fell down on my knees and was crying. And then i said to her, i am so sorry i was not there to protect you. And she, my cousin, looked at me and said, you see . She asked how many times i had been arrested. I said 22 times. She said, white folks had been whipping you, too, but you didnt give up your manhood . And i said no. She said, she didnt give up her womanhood. That is when i learned something about my family. Probably once a year, the town is 3 hours drive from atlanta. I go to her grave and i talked talk to her. Host was she on your mothers side or your fathers side . Hank my fathers side. That is where i get my rebellion from. Host did your parents talk to you about these things at all . Hank no. They did not talk to their children about slavery. You can tell me if i am right or wrong, but i dont think many Holocaust Survivors talk to their children. It was a matter of shame and a matter of revisiting something that was awful. So i never when i talked to my mother about that particular story, she was just silent. No doubt she had heard about it. The complete irony is that particular farm where my family was held as slaves is now owned by one of my Family Members. The historian, who died early last year. She owned that particular, and we had on my fathers side some of our family reunions there. She was constantly try to get me to spend the night in that house and i told her, im sorry. I cant do that. But the irony is that the Family Member owned that because obviously over the years, whoever owned it from the white side fell into some Financial Difficulties and either had to sell it or be sold for taxes. Host when did you graduate from high school . Hank 1959. Host and did you go to college . Hank Howard University, and that is where i got started in an organized fashion in the Civil Rights Movements, 1960. Host what was going on in the school . Was this something that you found yourself in an environment which was supporting ideas that you had . I imagine you were chomping at the bit. Hank absolutely. That is the way to describe it. September 1, when the students sat down at the lunch counter and came on the 6 00 news that this had happened, i remember sitting in. We had one room in a dorm where there was a tv. It was down in the basement of what we called the day room or the activity room. I am watching this on a particular channel, and they talked about what these students did and i remember jumping up and saying, yeah, weve got to do the same thing. The city of d. C. Had a public accommodations law. Right to the south is virginia, segregation. To the north and east is maryland, segregation. So while we could go to any restaurant in d. C. , just a few minutes away, we could not. We got started and i helped organize the first chapter of the nonviolent action group, which we called nag, and every week we would go to either virginia or maryland to do sit ins. We were protesting racism at a movie theater. It was, like you said, i was chomping at the bit. It was tailormade for me. Host you got involved fairly early. How did that happen . Hank Howard University had the second largest student protest group. Tennessee state had by far the largest. All during the month of february, march, and up to april, a lot of the colleges, historically black colleges throughout the south, where having some form of demonstration and sit ins. Ellen baker, who at that time was a member of the slcc, came up with the idea that all of the students who were involved and needed to be some coordinated effort. So she organized this for students to come to raleigh, north carolina. And we did, and that weekend, we met students from Tennessee State, fisk university, spellman. All of us came together and that is when miss baker said we should form our own organization. So the various organizations that they had at this campus, we decided to form one group, and it was called the student nonviolent coordinating committee. That is the acronym for sncc. We folded our organization into that one organization. That is how we became sncc. Host that is when you were a freshman . Hank yes. Host i was curious about the academic side of your college years. Hank i left home with the idea of becoming a doctor. There was a lady who lived across the street, a lady who also had a little private school. We called her mama joshua, and she thought i was a pretty smart kid because i memorized the books of the bible quicker than any other kid. To this day, i can still recite a few of them. Everything was done in the form of singing. Like, genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers, deuteronomy. She thought i was pretty smart. Everything was done in the form of singing. Like, genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers, deuteronomy. She thought i was pretty smart. She said, you need to go to school to be a doctor so you can come back here and take care of me and my sister. So i left Howard University with the idea of becoming a doctor. The first time i was arrested, i was in jail. The heck with being a doctor, i am going to be a lawyer because i need to fight this injustice. [laughter] hank that was the idea. I was never a real stellar academic scholar in the classroom. I had to work harder than anyone else just to get a c out of a class. But that is when i got thoroughly involved, and i guess you can say i realized what my calling was. Host when did you first year about the freedom riders . Hank 1961, because we got started in may of 1961. I think i got the flyer or the news about it probably in march. They were looking for someone at least 21 years of age or older, and of course i was only 19. So my roommate, john moody, who had spent 10 years in the air force and came to howard, so he was 10 years older than myself, he had also volunteered and he was selected to go. Obviously, he was over 21. I think two days before we were supposed to report to a friends Retreat Center there in northern virginia, he got sick and he could not go. And then he said to me, why dont you just go . I was always big for my age and people always thought i was older than i appeared. So i showed up and told them the story. And i did not tell them how old i was, however. So i filled out the form and the part where it says age and date of birth, i left it blank. I was accepted. It was an oversight on someones part. Two days into the training, somebody asked me again how old was i, because i forgot i had left it. I said 19, and they said, oh my gosh. But it was too late then. I said, i am 19 but i act 30. [laughter] hank and that is how i got selected for the freedom ride. Host how long was the training . What was the training . Hank i thought it was at least two weeks. I have since learned that it was probably only a week that we were training. And in that section of northern virginia, even though it was said to be more liberal than the rest of the country, still people were not ready for blacks and whites to be meeting under the same roof and certainly sleeping under the same roof. We had some trouble with the local authorities when they found out we were doing it. Fire inspectors got there, found all kinds of violations. Police started giving speeding tickets to people coming and going. In other words, we got properly harassed by the authorities. But that was only about three days prior to our completion of the training. So we did, and none of us got arrested there in northern virginia. Host how many were training . Was it enough for the first couple of rides . Hank we had 13 training. Six whites and seven blacks. I think may 4 is when we left washington dc. Our first stop was richmond, virginia. Host you must have been excited and scared. Hank excited, but not scared. I had no idea what i was getting into, what we were getting into. I was 19 and at 19, you thrive on either the perception of danger. You are used to breaking the rules, all of that. So i had no idea. And especially in richmond, virginia. Nothing happened. The people there acted decent. The fbi knew everything we were doing. I have since learned of the kind of dirty tricks that J Edgar Hoover tried to play on us and succeeded in some instances. But the next stop was charlotte, north carolina. Once again, no problems. The bus stations were integrated and we had no problem. It was when we went to south carolina, that was the first incidents of violence. One man was beaten pretty badly. I was on a bus that was stopped in south carolina. Another man was beaten pretty badly when he got off the bus. Pretty lewis was beaten badly. Hite man, jim pegg. He was beaten pretty bad. But i was not physically attacked. The Police Arrested me and in the night, they took me out to a klan mob. The deal was they did not book me into the station, there is nothing on the records indicating i had ever been arrested. And because the idea was to deliver me to the klan and the klan would kill me, and the police would say, ive never heard of him, we never arrested him, we have no record of him ever being in rock hill. I was rescued by a black man who had watched the police and had been assigned by corps to, if anybody is arrested, to report back. And he had been watching the police, and when i was ordered out of the police car at gunpoint, i had to run from the mob and he drove up beside me as i was running and told me to jump in the back seat and get down on the floor. And that is how i escaped from winnsboro, south carolina. Host do you still know that man . Hank i never knew his name. I have tried all these years, and i am pretty sure he has passed. The city of winnsboro is inviting me back, and i said, let bygones be bygones, right, guys . The police chief is an africanamerican. They are having a welcome back event after 35 years. That will take place sometime next month or in april. Thats it. Host amazing. So the ride continued. Hank it continued. We caught up with the group in atlanta, georgia. And we were warned and advised by dr. King and his folks, you need to stop this ride because you are going into alabama and it is a hotbed of klan activity, and someone is liable to get killed. Because i was missing for a period of 24 hours, they thought for sure that i had been killed. Because when they called rock hill to inquire about my whereabouts, the police said, we dont know what you are talking about. And that was a very good indication there that they had done something to him. So when i showed up again, i didnt think it was such a big deal after i escaped. [laughter] hank they were just happy to see me. And obviously, they had to do some thinking. Should we continue with this ride . And of course my answer was, of course we are going to continue. And so, we went on into anniston. When we got into the city, the streets were deserted. And we turned the corner of the street leading to the bus station, and there was a mob gathered at the bus station. And when the bus pulled in, they were yelling and screaming. The bus driver had brought them the freedom riders, and they were going to take over. They started breaking out the windows, and the bus driver had locked the door as he escaped from the bus so they could not get in the door. After a while of beating on the bus and rocking it, Robert Kennedy had contacted governor patterson and the president of greyhound that the freedom riders were trapped in anniston, alabama, so you have to get them out of there. The bus driver got on the bus and tried to drive away. There was a lot of cars behind him and cars in front of him that would not let the bus driver go more than 15 miles an hour. A tire had been punctured, two tires had been cut. The bus stopped at a Country Store along the highway. Another mob was there, and they continued the job of beating on the bus. They had their children and their wives with them. They had come to see the freedom riders get lynched. An incendiary device was thrown onto the bus in an open window. The bus ignited in fire. The thing that saved us, because they held the door shut as the bus was burning. They were saying, lets burn these niggers alive. The flames reached the fuel tank and blew out the back of the bus and everyone scattered. That is the way we were able to get off that bus. And the mob followed us to the hospital. After the attorney general pleaded with governor patterson to provide Police Escorts to take us to the hospital, they came to the hospital, asking the hospital to put us out. And the hospital did not have to refuse, because we were not going to leave the hospital. They threatened to burn the hospital down. Finally, governor patterson agreed that three other men could drive cars it could have been four to anniston, alabama to rescue us. Host i read that rescue was an armed rescue. Do you remember that . Hank i know one man told his people to bring arms. I remember hearing a couple of the people said, to hell with that. Toi remember fred said not bring arms but they said to heck with that. If we had been stopped by any of those mobs, they had to do something to protect us. But we also found out, and i had the chance to talk to john patterson, the governor. He is still alive and i think he is 93 years old. He had a lunch with us and asked for forgiveness, said they were wrong and asked to pose for a picture with me. Asked me if he could take a picture with me, and i have that picture at my house with him and my daughter. So he said he was sorry and he apologized, he was wrong. And as you probably know, George Wallace before he died went to a white church and asked for forgiveness. But that is how we got out of anniston. Some of those men said they had weapons. Host were you injured during this process . Hank we all suffered from smoke inhalation. Once you get that kind of smoke in your lungs, it takes some time, a few days, to get out. And that is a horrible feeling. I was hit probably with a baseball bat as i came stumbling off of the bus. He asked me, are you all right . And i am thinking, somebody is concerned. I was on the ground because he hit me. There is a picture of a Police Officer and an Alabama State trooper standing beside me as i am on the ground. They did absolutely nothing to protect us. But that is the only injury i had. Host when john lewis was hurt a few days earlier, was he with you . No, he was physically in no shape to continue. He later joined the group and montgomery but he had to have a few days to recover. The students from Frisk University and Tennessee State heard we could no longer continue to ride. And took up the cause started the ride again with a group of them from Tennessee State. They decided to come to montgomery. They got the crappy out of them, they got the crap beat out of them as well. One of them came almost close to being killed. The Montgomery Police told the ku klux klan that when the freedom riders come to town, you have 15 minutes to do what you want to do and after that we will move it. In those 15 minutes, they almost killed some of the freedom riders. Luckily john seegenthauler was out and hed knocked was a direct representative of Robert Kennedy. Thats whend that, theot on the phone and told governor of alabama that president kennedy was going to nationalize the National Guard and they cannot do something. That they only then decided to do something. Years later, in reunions with john, we went up and hugged him because if he had not been knocked out in the newspaper had not shown him sprawled in the sidewalk, there probably wouldnt be a chance of getting rescued. Host this is may. Youre supposed to be in school going, during this time . Did you go back to school . Hank eventually. the freedom rides and did, i went back to school in 1962. That is when the army came looking for me. Host tell me about that. At that time, the draft boards hank at that time, the draft boards were using their powers to punish people who had been involved in civil rights. The way they did that was to draft you into the army. Chances are if you were from piedmont, alabama and you were in school in nashville, there was a good possibility you did not notify the draft board you were in nashville. And the lost data or the regulation was that within 90 days after you leave a particular jurisdiction, you have to notify the draft board. Just a few of us who did that. If you did not notify the draft board, you are immediately subject to being caught up for inducted into the army. So in washington, when i got my notice, i knew what that meant. I was thinking and i was told that if you present yourself to the local recruiter, you are then no longer in violation and at least you have an opportunity to select what occupation you you wanted in the army. But you were going to be in the army. I did not necessarily want to go to combat. I said i wanted to become a medic. I thought that being a medic meant i would be working in a hospital. Know, being in the infantry mincing medics go to the battlefield. I was going to be where the action was. Host you with back to school in 1962 and the draft report contacted you and them after the school year hank i finished the school year. In 1963, i presented myself for the draft and was inducted into the army in october of 1963. Host there were only 15,000 thators in the nonin 1963 vietnam in 1963. Hank they kept increasing each month. 1963, i am at fort jackson. After jackson, i went to Fort Sam Houston in san antonio for my medical training. For my medical training i knew , that you could make an extra 55 a month. I was already married. That 55 extra was a huge amount of money. So i volunteered for the airborne. Soldier andairborne getting an extra 55 a month and a chance of extra promotion which means 30 more a month, which was a lot of money for me at the time. I was then sent to fort benning for my airborne training. It was there that the new air calvary unit was formed. They call it the airmobile unit. This whole concept of using helicopters and vehicles set of trucks and things of this nature. Instead of trucks and things of this nature. I went to vietnam in september of 1965 with the air cavalry unit. We arrived in vietnam at the end of september. By the middle of november, i was in battle. Host want to back up a little bit. I was wondering how you felt about this. This is the moment when the Civil Rights Movement is grabbing the country and you have to go off. Hank i was conflicted. What do i do . My grandfather served in world war i. My father served in world war ii. Always for black men whenever you served, it was military service you hoped would confirm your bona fides as a firstclass, redblooded american citizen. Even though you knew that was not the case. The 10th of the calvary, that was not the case of the black soldiers who served in the civil war. At one point, 50 of Union Soldiers were black and all of that with our service, we are entitled and that will prove that we will be citizens. Naively, i felt the same way. You wanted an opportunity to prove that you are truly an american. That inner conflict i had when i went to vietnam. There was more than once in vietnam that im thinking what am i doing here . I am reading about all the stuff going on back home. For me, and the other black vietnam vets, the country was changing. It did change. We still had some problems there in vietnam and black soldiers who came back in 1965 and 1966 and 1967 had lots of problems. They were nowhere near the intensity of illtreatment that world war ii black veteran suffered when they came back. Host where were you deployed in vietnam . Hank i was in the central high lands. We landed in a city called chignon. November of that year was the year that the first large American Unit had contact with the north vietnamese unit in what was called the battle of the entering valley. Valley. N somebody asked did i see mel gibson over there . I said no, i did not get a chance to see no gibson. I understand he won that war for us. I was at the tail and of that battle. By this time in the army, i was what was called a senior medic. I had three other medics serving under me. Two of them were killed. Day duringhe same that particular battle. Days one of those when i heard about them being killed, i was at headquarters and those that were killed were both 18 year old white boys. I emphasize the fact that they were white because for the first time in my life, and im sure for the first time for other black soldiers, they had a chance to interact with whites not on aal level and subservient level. Boys i wasite 22 at the time so for them i was an old guy. They looked at me as being their protector. I dont know why. Maybe because of my age. I never had any problems with them following my directions. When i found out they had been killed in the battle, that was a pretty difficult thing for me. Host how did you feel about the war in particular . I understand the idea of service, you had a hope that that would be meaningful. What did you think about the war . Hank you didnt think that much about the politics of the war. You are concerned about staying alive. Especially if you were in frontline combat. Going out on patrols and people around you are getting killed. You think about staying alive. The politics of it. The fact that you are there. There were a times that i kept saying what am i doing here . How am i get home . , how my going to be received when i get home . I had my problems with whites in vietnam as a lot of blacks did. You had these white southerners who came in with these particular attitudes in terms of the officers who were in charge. My cap and threatened to have me court marshaled a couple of times while i was over there. He was from mississippi. He brought his own prejudices into the company. There were some Serious Problems in vietnam. Him and especially after the tet. The racial problems that threatened to tear the army apart and ruined its effectiveness. There were a couple of times , this was in the early where 1970s, jr. Officers and firstly First Lieutenant or even captains would not take their men out on patrol. I remember cbs interviewing one lieutenant. He refused to take his unit out of control. He disobeyed our direct order. He simply told the reporter that when we go out and the shooting starts i do not know who is , going to be shooting at who. That is how bad the situation has gotten. You had some whites who came in and did not realize that when you use the in word toward a black, you could have some wordus problems n toward a black, you could have some Serious Problems. The army saw it had a problem. It had to do something. Indeed, they get serious what they found out was, i think only about 2 of the officers in vietnam were africanamerican. During the first part of the of missing6 war, 26 and actions were africanamericans. That became a problem. The word cannon fodder. That was the situation. That was not the situation. What it once was, africanamericans generally were preferring to go to combat arms. Haveis where you got to your rank promoted. You had the chance of making rank fast. And those were the elite units of the army at that time. A lot of us were gung ho. We were predominant in the air Bayern Munich Airborne Unit and we wanted a chance to prove we were good and we would fight for our country. The downside of it was, when it was time to get out the metals, that was when i began to get into trouble. Blacks were not getting the metals mdeals. And that was one of the issues with my captain. Atonfronted him diplomatically as i could. I wondered why there were no blacks getting medals and all the metals were given to the given to the whites. Ncos about why we were not getting blacks medals. They said we did recommend him for a bronze and silver star but nothing ever came of it. I requested his permission to go to the ig and once again you do not just do that because you are saying have no faith in his particular leadership. That is when i began to have my problems. Happened thing that was some of the white filters had sent home and ask their relatives to send them Confederate Flags. One day, at our company headquarters, a Confederate Flag was wasted instead of old glory. And with some of the black soldiers, who it got the reputation for the guy who did not give a dam, i confronted the authorities and i saw this rebel flag and i got my m16, got about three or four magazines and i said that sucker on automatic and i fired a magazine. Everybody started running at the same time. Imd that magazine and put in another one and finally the flag came down. Tenlked calmly back to my t and of course obviously the captain sent for me. I got the m16, shouldered it, and went to see the captain. He told me not to do it again. Ok. But i became a hero to the black soldiers and there were a few other incidents that we had to contend with as well. Was that the captain from mississippi . Hank yes. Host and he only told you to not do it again . Hank i dont think he once tell me anything else at that particular moment. Lets just put it that way. Host i was going to ask you how did you cope with your rebellious streak while you were in the military . You clearly had plenty of, avenues for expressing it. Hank i wanted to stay in the military. I really did. I qualify for aviation school. You get a warrant. Officer and warrant i thought when i look at what my possibilities of employment outside of the military, given my history, staying in the military was very attractive as an idea. The problem was my captain was never going to recommend me for going to aviation school. Because another little incident happened. The supply circuit, he was from the supply, sergeants were notorious for being grounders. They were criminals. Supply sergeants were criminals. They could do all kinds of things. As with a lot of initial equipment in the army it was hit , and miss. Some of it was not suitable. One of the problems we had was with the boots. They would wear out prematurely as a result of the high humidity. We had to experiment with getting a boot that would last. Everybodys boots were wearing out. And then the army would send in the new boots. They would obviously come to Headquarters Company first. Your job was to ship them out to the other company. All the blacks in our company were not getting the boots. The white soldiers were. This is outrageous. The black soldiers came to me and said Sergeant Sherry is getting boots for the white guys and not us. That is all you need to say. Thomas made a beeline to the sergeant and said blacks are not getting any boots. Im not supposed to be talking to him the way i was. He just told me, at ease soldier. He said you need to mind your own business. I said you have any new boots back there . Before he could answer, i went behind the counter and tore open the lock off of the locker. A line of blacks were already behind me. I said, what size do you wear . I said im handing out boots to the blacks. Once again, this time the captain did tell me we were slated to go out on another patrol. On another big operation. He told me the next day i went i want to see you when you come back if you come back. What you mean if i come back . My days of remaining in the army i knew he would be happy when i would leave. And maybe all of the reports he rode up on me. To my surprise, when i got my discharge papers, none of those particular things were on their he had threatened me with there he had threatened me with. Maybe he was glad to say good riddance to me and that was it. Host can you tell us about how you were injured . Hank we went out to set up an ambush. Id always thought it was not a good idea to sneak up on the enemy. All these before had not worked all these times of had not four worked out very well. Before had not worked out very well. Maybe we need to let them know that we are coming. They would say listen, its not worth it. We got up very early in the morning. Here is what i want you to think about. How can you sneak up on anybody with 25 helicopters . We thought that we were going to get there about 7 00 in the morning and set up an ambush along a well traveled vietnam trail. By the time we got there, and got set up, all hell broke loose. They were already there just waiting for us. I dont know why. They did not shoot down the choppers. They waited for the choppers to leave and let loose. The whole thing probably lasted about five or six minutes. To me, it seemed like forever. When it was over, i think about three of our guys were killed. I remember being knocked down. I knew i had been shot. The old saying goes, if you can feel something, that means you are still alive. I know i have been shot, so im trying to figure out where i am shot. This particular hand had been knocked behind me. When i was able to remove my hand, it was uncontrollable. I cannot keep it from shaking and bones were sticking up from my hand. They said the first thing i said was oh hell, im going home now. If you had that kind of wound, it would require extensive surgery that would send you home. I also had been hit in the chest as well. That particular wound, i had a superstition. I was the most heavily armed medic in all of vietnam. My superstition was if i lowered myself down in addition to my medical supply with a 45, i had an m16, and i had the grenade launcher. People would ask me, i would say if i would carry this stuff, i would never have to use it. One of the bullets hit the, i carried about 200 rounds of ammunition. Think one of the bullets hit one of the magazines. That was one of the things that saved me. When i got ready to treat a unarmr, unarmed first frist. First. That was my superstition. Host when was the injury . Hank i got injured and of course everybody came running around me. All never forget the movie never forget the movie Hamburger Hill with the medic. I had the chance to meet courtney vance. I told them, do you realize you were me . He was that same kind of soldier. We laughed and reminisced. The soldiers all gathered around you when you were injured. They did the same thing with me. Im telling them to get away from me because all youre going to do is give me shot again. When the medic is hit, that has a psychological hit that effect. Psychological effect. I remember this old sergeant robertson. A big burly black eye came to me and said doc, youve been hit. I dont know if youre going to live or not. I say, thanks a lot. Of course, the chopper came down. We were in a mountainous area. The air was very thin. They loaded us onto the chopper. The chopper had trouble getting altitude. My feet laid out one and, one end and my head laid out on the other end. They tried one time and came back down. They tried again. They finally got out of there. They got me to the hospital. I think from the time i was shot, within 45 minutes, i was on the operating table at the hospital. The next morning, the doctor came in who had operated on me and showed me the bullet here taken out of me. I wanted the bullet. He said, no, im putting this in my office so that people understand. He said this is my trophy. I underwent one operation in vietnam and two more operations and walter reed. Host you mentioned you were married when you went to vietnam. When you came back, after you were injured, you came back to where . Host i tried to go back to school at Howard University. I had some things i had to take care of with reference to my family, my oldest sister came to live with me and in d. C. She had been subject to some abuse by my stepfather. I had this thing about, i had a family that i now had to take care of. I could not do that by working a parttime job. I dropped out of school with the idea of coming back a little bit later on. I did not have a lot of the postcombat stress that some of the Vietnam Veterans had. I think mine was delayed if you will. I did see some things in vietnam that even today when i think about them, i get a little emotional. The number of civilians i saw who were killed. Civilians, the number of civilians who were killed. Civilians always get caught in the middle whether it was the north vietnamese or the south vietnamese. Accidental fire of artillery shells falling in the wrong village. They kill people. They kill children. As a medic, i saw other soldiers, i saw some of this. It was, even today, many years after, there are few of those things that still haunt me in terms of civilians that were killed. There are times when my wife has to wake me up when im having nightmares. There were a couple of times when i got really scared because i woke up hitting her because i was dreaming. We had a problem with the m16 rifle when we first went over. We were told you dont put it on automatic fire because it will jam and it did jam. Anytime i had these nightmares, four or five north vietnamese soldiers coming at me and i make a mistake of putting the weapon on automatic fire and the first burst, the gun jams and now ive got to run or use a gun as a club to fight off the soldiers. One night, i was hitting my wife. That scared the devil out of me. Its happened a couple of nights before. She knows anytime im moving for or shaking, she will wake me up. It is not as frequent. But those were the things that bothered me. Also, the fact that im treating somebody and running out of bandages and i cant stop the bleeding. Those are the recurring night tears that i have as well. When i first went to the wall after seeing soldiers get to the wall and emotionally breakdown, thats not going to happen to me. I did not go until about five years after it was there. When i got there and you see the names of those three medics of mine that were killed and one that was very close to me, alpha jackson, something about seeing those names, taking that piece of paper and graphite that that gave you, it gets to you. You see many War Memorials a not that many with the names there. You call out that persons name and you look for the name of your buddy when you go to that wall. That still gets to me sometimes. So your sister, your stepsister came to visit with you. I have a total of two grown children and 5 grandd and one great grands. My sister has a daughter who was in the marines. Did two tumors in, did two unidentified speaker tours in vietnam. My family is a military family. We have several members who are in the military who have retired. We went through that period but i never did go back to school. Got started in business when i moved to atlanta. My mother wanted me to be a schoolteacher. Ive had a good life. Living the American Dream and the american story. I first started off with operating a dairy queen restaurant. From a dairy queen im caught a burger king, from burger king my first mcdonalds in 1982 and before i retired i wound up owning a total of, owning mcdonalds and marriott hotels. Living the american story, the American Dream. When you came back from the, from vietnam, did you rejoin the movement . On a different level. Im in business now and i have a family. I do things differently. Going out on demonstrations and going to jail, i did not do that. Tell some of my colleagues we get together, some of them would razz me by saying hank has gone over to the enemy. Hes become a capitalist. Show i said im still the revolutionary because the idea of a black man being business is a revolutionary idea so im still fighting the fight. Became successful in business. The thing my wife and i have done, we give back. I used to say to folks, some of my business colleagues, anytime we needed something in the black community that was for the good of the community we had to go to white folks for it. We have go to the man. I reminded them, those that were in business doing well, we are the man now. I am the man. When black kids need scholarships, when the schools need somebody to step up to the plate to finance various things, thats one of the things i do. Very proud of it. Host do you mind talking about your stepfather . Hank i dont mind. He was an individual. He never learned to read or write. He could fix practically anything. He can wire a house, fix a car. I used to say, had he gone to school he couldve been a mechanical engineer, electrical engineer. In this town of wadley, georgia, there was a sawmill. He kept all of that machinery going. Anytime the machinery breakdowns lg was the man who would , fix it. They would not call him a man at the time. They would call him a boy. They would get him out of jail on saturday night so he would be in work monday morning. Nevermind that he drank all his earnings. They got him to work so he could fix whatever went wrong and this type of thing. He used to say things like when he got drunk, rather die and go to hell then be treated the way i was treated. I had no idea what he was talking about. None of us knew what he was talking about. As i understood later what black men went through, he is talking about the way he was being treated. Here he was, and intelligent man a very intelligent man in terms of his skills and he was probably being paid just enough to keep his family from starting so what did he do, he drank. Even though the county we lived county, the sheriff and all of the shop houses the shot houses, the homemade moonshine was sold there. He was never treated like a man. What he did was, you take that hurt that you feel, and you are it to the people who are closest to you. He was a black man who did not know how to show love to his family. He only knew the way he had been treated. So, many years later, while i could not forgive him for what he had done to me and his family, years later, i understood. The one regret i had, i said i never got the chance to tell him that i for gave him forgave what he did to me and my mother and the rest of his family. Now day and a court of law they law, they would say he was temporarily insane. And he was for the way he had been treated. When you understood what happened during slavery and during the jim crow era, it is an absolute wonder that every black man was not crazy because of the way they were treated and the family suffered. How did your mother deal with that . In a stoic way, the way all black women deal with it. She felt it was gods will. Did not like it but it was gods way of punishing her and that eventually, my mother is very religious woman. Always her conversation with me is are you going to church. She knows im not. So rather than to lie to her, maybe next week. Thats the way she dealt with it. She just said it was the lords will and best the way she still feels about it today. Host i understand you started working at a very young age. What was your first job . Hank picking cotton. I mustve been 7 or eight. My mother made the cotton sack for me. In that area of the country black did not go to school until generally november. Thats after all the crops were in. When kids went to school late august, september. But we had to get the crops in. And it was cotton in that portion of georgia. Some other area, it was potatoes or picking beans. Education took a back seat to what the farmer is needed. All of the money, which may have been a dollar a day, ive put it on the table and that was the money that was used to buy groceries. Especially when lg drank all of the money. Host reading your biography as a young man, one thing emerges. Did the discipline that you learned during the freedom rides help prepare you for what was needed in the army and combat . Hank i dont necessarily think so. One of the things im grateful for, i always had a sense of right and wrong at an early age. I always knew where i was was as a kid and poverty and i knew that is where i did not want to be. I knew that education is the key. I was reading of the time i was 4. I have this inner sense of discipline i now attribute to the genes i inherited. This woman, right after slavery, the emancipation proclamation, with two or three other people organized a church of ways. The regime plot of ground that they bought. This woman had this kind of discipline and sense of knowing things are supposed to be. Host thank you very much. Monday, president s day on the cspan network, the launch of landmark cases lit from the National Constitution center in philadelphia with a review of the 12 historic cases to be featured. At 7 30 p. M. , the portrait unveiling ceremony for president obama and michelle obama. And then the panel comparing watergate to today. And then, the 2018 savanna book festival. At 9 00 p. M. , indepth fiction edition with Pulitzer Prize and National Book award winner. Colson fulson whitehead. Essex 30 p. M. , scholars explore the relationship between and p. M. , scholars explore the relationship watch monday on the cspan network. Cspan history series, landmark cases season to be getting february 26 with a look at the significance of precourt decisions. Exploring this case with us is an associate law professor from the university of virginia and a law professor at the university of arkansas. Watch landmark cases, live monday, february 26 at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. For background on each case, order the companion book. 18. 95 onilable for cspan. Org. There is also a link to the interactive constitution. Next on the presidency. A look at the relationship between president george h. W. Bush and bill clinton and russian president boris yeltsin, and how they influence the new russia after the dissolution of the ussr. The university of virginias cv looked at the complicated histor Miller Center look to the complicated history of the u. S. And russia. It included discussions of franklin, richard nixon, and Ronald Reagan as well as the russian counterpart. This is about one hour. As with the end of the cold and justthtaking speed when you think you are beginning by 1992, what happened wait there is a new administration in office and we are going to have that explain to us. Let me start with a couple of ironies