Monticello provided the video. We are pleased to partner with mount vernon today to bring you a special q a session with thomas jefferson, as portrayed by bill barker, and george washington, as portrayed by dean melissa. My name is melanie, and i will be moderating your questions for these founding fathers. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us today. I look forward to a fascinating conversation. Mr. Jefferson my pleasure. Thank you for being with us. I could not be the more delighted to welcome, truly, my old friend, general washington, to be in company once again. It has been a time, general. Mr. Washington it has been, sir. It is actually my pleasure and my honor to be with you, although i confess i do not rightly understand how this is happening. Mr. Jefferson i believe, general, it is because of one of the duties written explicitly in our constitution. Of the duties of the legislative one body the pursuit of science. Washington which im a strong supporter of. Our first question for the two of you. What do you remember about your first meeting . Mr. Washington our first meeting . You know, if you will allow me, mr. Jefferson, i reckon those who are viewing may or may not be aware that there is an age difference between us. I am older than yourself by 11 , 12 years . Mr. Jefferson 11 years, your excellency. And we were both born under the oldstyle calendar. Mr. Washington ah, thats correct. Very confusing at different times. But i actually believe i remember meeting a young thomas, the son of Peter Jefferson, on my first survey trip. I was a young fellow myself, and Peter Jefferson and colonel joshua friday were engaged in leading that survey. And i traveled to the west world and likely came in contact with a young boy, truth be told, although i have no clear recollection of that. It is interesting, this coincidence regarding joshua fry and Peter Jefferson because they were the best of friends and colonel fry died in the french war on a horse accident. I became a colonel at that time. I became commander of the virginia regiment. I continued to travel west to build the fort roads and such. But it is likely that we came in contact with each other in the old capital, williamsburg, but the clearest absolute recollection i have was when we were both serving in the house of burgesses. Thomas, you began serving in the late sixties . Mr. Jefferson i first took my seat in that ancient body in the spring of 1769. But i must tell you, your excellency, you were already a legend within my family when i was a young boy. My father, colonel Peter Jefferson, spoke very highly of you. He, as you well know, was a surveyor, commissioned by the royal authority. Surveying far the western lands of virginia and beyond. He knew you well when you were a young major. And i believe you both sat together in the Virginia House of burgesses, just before he passed away. He passed away in 1757. And when i came to the house of burgesses 12 years later, i had already known of you. I attended the college in williamsburg, william and mary, reading law with george and practicing law in williamsburg. In fact, general, i do not know whether you remember, but when i was a young man of 25 years of 25 years of, a good age, i had already become a devotee of theater. And i never missed an opportunity when the Virginia Company would be performing in williamsburg at that old theater across from campbells. In fact, i believe mrs. Campbells was quite the destiny for you. You enjoyed her ocean repass, that is her fine seafood. There, the two of us, if i remember well, attended a production of the Virginia Company. I was only about, oh, i would venture 25 years of age. It was in the spring of 1968 1768. And i remembered that you are quite a devotee of the theater. Mr. Washington i am. And i did attend theater in the old capital. I must confess to you that at this age i am actually chockablock and i do not actually remember meeting you at one of those nights, but it is possible. Mr. Jefferson i was hardly dry behind the ears in those early years, general. Mr. Washington like i said, you are younger than myself. [laughter] speaking of the Virginia House of burgesses, when you are both members in the years leading up to the American Revolution, what were some of the issues that arose and how did they lead to americas break with england . Mr. Washington well, if you will allow me, i shall begin and then let you convey the substance of it. You are correct, we both did serve in the house of burgesses, although i started in 1756, a few years earlier. If you will allow an old man to recollect, because when ones hair turns white that is what one does. I remember a story that was related by colonel mason to mrs. Washington. It was pretty much my first attendance at the house of burgesses. I was home from the french and indian war and i entered the hall, we called it the hall. At the house of burgesses where we all met. All the members rose and gave me standing a claim, according to colonel mason. I was expected to return that acclaim by making a speech. Forgive me, but colonel mason told mrs. Washington that i blushed red like a virgin and was completely tongue tied. It was at that point that the old speaker, robinson, hit his staff on the floor and said, you may sit down, colonel washington, for it is obvious to all that your modesty is equal to your bravery. That said, i would tell you that i was not particularly innovative or a routine speaker at the Virginia House of burgesses. I sat with younger burgesses, colonel mason, mr. Henry, mr. Jefferson as well. And, of course, any older, wiser members of the burgesses, speaker robinson, mr. Randolph. In the years leading up to the war for independence, the Virginia House of burgesses was very entrenched in that struggle. In the 1760s, the house asserted it had the Sole Authority to tax virginians. In may of 1774, close to the outbreak of the war itself, at the last session of the house, you mentioned it before, mr. Jefferson, i remember that we called for fasting, humiliation, and prayer. This was in support of what was happening at that time. The boston citizenry was subjected to acts of strong discipline. It was that that was at that point and this is what you referenced that governor dunmore promptly dissolved the Virginia House of burgesses. And we just met the next day at the tavern. We signed a number of documents and continued to support the war, but truth be told, the Virginia House of burgesses never truly meets in full again. You might want to add to this, mr. Jefferson. Mr. Jefferson well, i remember vividly, general, those years that youre speaking of, once i took my seat in the house of burgesses. There was one concern that followed immediately after the next, and i certainly do recall when we heard about the closure of the port of boston, a retaliation by the crown because of the socalled tea party that was held in boston harbor. And i always thought the only creatures to have enjoyed a tea party in boston were the fishes in boston harbour. Remember, that was a riot and destruction of private property. However, with just cause. And when we learned of the atrocious method by which the crown would close down the entire port to punish all of the inhabitants of massachusetts bay, we would not let it pass in virginia. You are absolutely right that we cooked up, as i have written, a resolution for a day of fasting, humiliation, and prayer. Mr. Washington which i was not very happy with at all. Mr. Jefferson and if i remember, general, if i remember, the evening before, governor dunmore, who rode to the old capital williamsburg, he was bedecked in state to dissolve us, as was the royal prerogative. If i am correct in recalling, did you not have a repast to share a meal with governor dumore at the old royal palace . Mr. Washington you are correct. I did, and i was hoping to defuse his response. But to no avail. Mr. Jefferson it was to no effect and you were present, i remember distinctly, in the old raleigh tavern when our good friend, my cousin, the late peyton randolph, who was speaker at the house of burgesses at the time, decided we ought to gather together, virginia and massachusetts, 600 miles distant, and to be accompanied by our sister colonies. Not in virginia as a virginian would want it, nor farther north than massachusetts as one there would desire, but midway between the northern and southern colonies, to meet in philadelphia. Now, general, i wish i had been there at that First Congress, september, 1774, but i fell ill and was not able to go. But you were there, the very First Congress of all of the colonies. I always envied that about your history, along with so many other things that have continued to remain an inspiration for me. Mr. Washington you know, if you remember, thomas, it was only months earlier that all of us in virginia believing that if these things could happen in new england, and massachusetts bay, they could happen anywhere. It was just months earlier that the governor confiscated all the black powder and weaponry and magazine in colonial williamsburg. Mr. Jefferson general, general, if you will, i beg your pardon, you know i do that frequently. Im having a difficulty being able to hear you. Might you speak just a tad louder . Mr. Washington i shall. I shall. I was saying that it was just months earlier that the governor had confiscated the black powder and the weaponry from the magazine in williamsburg. I found myself in philadelphia in september of 1774. And what a remarkable assemblage that was. Because it is important that everyone remember that it is a miracle that anything actually happened. Because we were absolute strangers to each other. At the time of that very first meeting, we had 13 different armies. We had 13 different currencies. 13 different economies. I think nine of the colonies had standing navies. We were absolute strangers to each other, with different customs. So it was absolutely remarkable. But to the original question, the Virginia House of burgesses was very fully engaged in the struggle that led to the war for american independence. Mr. Jefferson so much so, general, lest we forget that the next year when i did have that opportunity to finally attend the congress in philadelphia , that spring and summer of 1775, that virginia rose further to the forefront in calling for an american army. Remember, we had heard nothing from england as we showed our respect with an Olive Branch Petition in order to seek a reconciliation, and as well, having formed an army to send them, if you will, the necessity for taking up arms that we realized that necessity could be in no one elses hands, but yours, general. I will never forget. I will never forget that spring and summer of 1775 when we brought all of those militia together to form an american army, and who else to lead us . Who else to receive the First Commission as a general . Oh, neither of us will ever forget that if you were born in the counties of britain, you could never rise to the rank of general in the british army. Only colonel of a militia. As i said, no one else could but no one else could have fulfilled that commission but yourself. Mr. Washington thomas, when i was commissioned by the congress, yourself included, i was scared to death. I had led a regiment, i had never led an army. I remember sitting in my boarding rooms when i was not involved with meetings from the congress. And i was reading everything i could on strategy. I understood tactics fairly well, but certainly not strategy. But i remember standing up. I could not even walk to the dais, if you recall. I stood up in front of my chair and i accepted the commission. And when i sat down, everyone in that room knew that our world, perhaps the world, would never be the same again. Mr. Jefferson yes. Youve always been honest, general. Youve always been distinct and direct upon your feelings, at least with me. And how well we both know that courage and valor can only be supported by one questioning themselves and better understanding the risk that they take, but that the risk is so worthy for the greater good. Mr. Washington madam, have you another question . Yes. So, general washington and mr. Jefferson, we know that you served in the cabinet together, the very first cabinet. What are some of your thoughts about some of the strong differences of opinion amongst the cabinet members in the first cabinet . Mr. Washington i think they referred to it as internal dissensions tearing us apart. But it was not always such the case. You know, i selected my cabinet members based on their ability to Carry Forward the establishment of the major departments that they were responsible for. Mr. Jefferson, as my secretary of state, he was a man of letters and a man of education. Forgive me if i embarrass you, thomas. He had already joined john adams and dr. Benjamin franklin in paris in 1784 to negotiate commercial treaties with european powers. The following year, i believe it was 1785. You succeeded dr. Franklin, am i correct . Mr. Jefferson youre quite correct, general. He took a leave of paris to return to our country and happily to be there as soon was convened the Constitutional Convention over which you, sir, and none other, in my opinion, served so successfully as the president. Mr. Washington youre kind, but i didnt stop watching your accomplishments. While he was minister of finance, he negotiated a commercial treaty with prussia, and a Consular Convention with france. This is a man who had diplomatic ability, so it was appropriate to pick mr. Jefferson as my secretary of foreign affairs, what you might refer to as the secretary of state. And in the beginning, colonel hamilton and jefferson agreed. They were actually friends, if you can imagine. But things began to bifurcate fairly quickly betwixt the federalists and the anti federalists. Now, by way of explanation in the broadest terms, federalists supported ratification of the constitution, a strong, Central Government tied to commercial interests. I dont think it is an oversimplification, thomas, to say that antifederalists distrusted centralized power. They favored strong states rights and an agrarian economy. So, this is where the problems arose, and the internal conflict within my cabinet. Because, to their opponents, the federalists were really told,hists, truth be whose affection for Great Britain would set aside, would lose any gains we had made in our war for american independence. And, to the opponents of the antifederalists, they were considered radical democrats, and their zeal for the kingdom of france would have the same results, turning us away from positive outcome in the war for american independence. So this did not bode well for america. Im sure you have your own perspective on it, thomas. But it is challenging to find areas, looking back, in which mr. Jefferson and colonel hamilton were in complete agreement, but they did exist. They both agreed on an educated and informed citizenry, they agreed on a national currency. They agreed on the establishment of the Revenue Cutter Service to guard our coasts. And a few other things as well. Mr. Jefferson general, i beg , hamilton referred to the necessity of a coast guard as the necessity for revenue cutters. I referred to it as the necessity for militia boats to protect and defend our coastline. But with all due respect, your excellency, you are absolutely correct. At the very beginning, and you referred to him as colonel, if you remember, he preferred general. But hamilton and i did agree and we worked together to agree and advise and consult with you, as you placed your trust in us, to be seated in your cabinet. And yes, you are correct that whether you refer to it as federalist or whether you have referred to others as anti federalists, we did believe in the necessity of the Central Government. That the Central Government would be supported by the concerns of the individual states, and the purpose of the federal government was to protect and defend all of the states collectively. E pluribus unum. Now, i am not going to deny, there was a concern of some of us that perhaps was growing in the federal government, a faction more interested in their close ties to the counting houses, more interested in considering the success of british mercantilism to be our own proper inheritance, and would rather have placed commerce at the forefront rather than agriculture. If you will, elements of stock jobbing, speculation, as was beginning to occur under the buttonwood tree on wall street , where the first government was seated. And yes, im not going to deny that was the antithesis of what we desired in our revolution. That we desired, if you will, to create a government of, by, and for the people. Not to create another monarchy or aristocracy, or landed gentry. And these are the conflicts that began to grow within your cabinet, and i was certainly general, you know that, you know we certainly aware that you with all of your patience and perseverance which had been exemplified that it could never be exemplified by any other in the pursuit of our victory of American Revolution was the greatest example of virtue. And you did not want to stand for a second term, general. And that is why i came to visit you, if you recall. Mr. Washington i do recall quite well. I am struck by your restating of the bifurcation that i spoke of, and if this elder statesman can just suggest that the reality is that we needed the balance right in between. You had said E Pluribus Unum. Out of many, one. And that is absolutely appropriate and it is that balance that brings us to that. You know, i had seen firsthand during the war for independency the great bane of too strong a Central Government. A monarchy, you cannot get any stronger than that, and i had also seen the great problems involved in states that had too much in the way of rights, because we could not get funded for our war. We were in want of everything and relied on the states individually to provide those funds. And that was very problematic. But in the middle, there is balance. You spoke of too strong a Central Government. You spoke of too weak a Central Government, or too strong a state government. What you also just elucidated was the fact that there was a conflict between bankers and manufacturers and the agrarian society. And here again, we need all of it, we need all of it, both sides to come together in the middle. And without that, we will face problems going forward. It will lose much of what we have gained. Mr. Jefferson general, if you would allow, again with all due respect, we are farmers. Nine out of every 10 americans reside on farms. They engage, as you have heard me say so often, one of the two most noble locations of mankind. The one, farming, the cultivation of the soil, and the other, the cultivation of the mind. And therefore if we allow commerce and merchandizing, mercantilism, stock jobbing, particularly speculation, that to draw uswont farther and farther from cultivation. And the sustenance of any nation is in that providing directly for the family, for his neighborhood, for the nation and the world. And i beg your pardon, but i know you hear me express it so often and i will nevertheless in the future agriculture should receive our first attention, commerce as it handmade handmaid. Mr. Washington you are speaking to a man who considers himself first and foremost a farmer. I dont need to remind you of that. But im here to suggest to you in the strongest of terms that the success of this nation lies in the balance betwixt the two opposing sides. That is it. Perhaps we shall move onto another question. We do have a question from the audience. You both live on plantations supported by enslaved labor. Maria wants to know how you felt about keeping people enslaved, versus freedom for all people. Mr. Washington the only avoidable subject of regret. I shall speak briefly, but i shall tell you that my comments are by way of explanation, not by way of excuse, because i have written that the institution of slavery is an abomination and i believe that it is irreconcilable in a democratic republic. That said, of course, i inherited my first slaves when i was a lad of 11 years of age, when my father died. And i did not think much more of them than i did the chair that i am sitting in right now. They were property. But it was actually mr. Jefferson that once said, and if i am saying things incorrectly, please correct me, that a man of 50 cannot wear the same clothing as a boy of 15. We evolve, we grow, we change. And i have done so in my own thinking on the matter. I had said back in 1778 that i want to be quit of this business. I said in 1786 that i never mean to possess another slave through purchase. I want nothing more than to see laws adopted through proper legislation for the slow and the imperceptible and the sure abolition of this subject. And personally i made arrangements to try and rectify this terrible mistake. But they are of a private nature. Mr. Jefferson general, i have heard you express these sentiments many, many times. We certainly have never forgotten that what we were able to show the rest of the world, not only Great Britain, but those who looked upon us as a mongrel population of radical rabble revolutionaries in the hinterlands of north america, that we were able to bring together 13 individual nations. You expressed earlier how distant and disparate all of those former colonies were, the difference of religious opinion in one versus a vast difference in another, the difference of freeholders predominant in one, versus the greater number of tenants on the Free Holdings in another. But our point at hand, there was slavery in all of those former colonies. Through a founding principle we must never forget. Compromise. Compromise and resolution. Not only on behalf of our general safety, not only on behalf of the common defense, but most importantly, the common good. That is inherent in the first paragraph in our constitution, the drafting of which, over which you so nobly presided. And my feelings on this barbarous institution of slavery are no less of a concern than yours. No less of a lament than yours. And no less of my inheritance than yours. And as you know, i have increasingly referred to my family, in particular inoculating 70 or 80 of my family, and i say this distinctly because throughout all of these generations, inheriting of ourselves, one and the other, slave and master, we are representative nearly, i would say entirely, of a word that i used in our declaration, consanguinity. It means relationship. It means blood. And it is very, very difficult to understand how we may be able to extricate ourselves from this. It has been too long in our inheritance, but it must be. And you know how i feel about that, and how i expressed it and dr. Franklin expressed it, mr. Madison, of course, and we know, general hamilton. So i too, but less than yourself, cannot make excuses. I hope ive provided a clarity and i cannot condone it. I know for myself, general, that the future will be harsh upon me and they have every right to be. Mr. Washington you know, thomas, i was listening to you speak and i was thinking that it is my fervent hope that our guests can, at the very least, understand the context of our time. You know, both of us as younger men read about the ancient romans and the ancient greeks. And sometimes we would, in our reading, wonder what were they thinking . How could they do that in their day and time . Because we struggled with understanding the context of those ancient dates. And i think that it is appropriate that at least that voice be heard, which is that, had we raised the issue during our Constitutional Convention, it is without doubt that georgia, south carolina, north carolina, and perhaps our beloved virginia, would have gotten up from the table and turned their backs on the union. And it is against that background that i offer that last bit further explanation. You know, this issue of slavery i have stopped taking communion. Madam, another question perchance . Absolutely. You both are supporters of religious freedom. Barbara would like you to talk about the virginia statute for religious freedom, or maybe tell us a little bit about your religious faith. Mr. Washington i think it is appropriate that the author of those statutes speak to the subject. Mr. Jefferson general, i know that the both of us cannot deny that we were brought up not only in a monarchical system of government, particularly under the power and influence of the royal prerogative. Abiding by the laws, the common laws of Great Britain, but that also meant we were brought up by the laws of the church of england. And no matter what our religious opinions might be, and those of so many who sought a religious asylum here in our former colonies, we all still had to abide by the alliance of the ecclesiastical laws of the church of england with the Civil Authority of the monarchy of Great Britain. There were two exceptions, as we both know. There was pennsylvania and rhode island that practiced freedom for religion. But i think you observed, as many times as i certainly did, and the two of us together when we sat in the house of burgesses in williamsburg, the increasing number of baptists that were coming into virginia and raising the alarm of being forced to worship in a church where they disbelieved in that ecclesiastical law. And so much so that within a year of my being seated in the house of burgesses, you were present, 1769, the house of burgesses formed a committee for religion to welcome the growing number of petitions being put forth by the growing number of dissenters, who refused to abide by that coercion of religion upon a free people. And that is really the impetus. That is really the influence that brought about, finally, as the war began and we declared our independency, to draft a law, a bill for religious freedom. There, of course, was the argument in our new Virginia House of delegates for a good seven years. Grant you, i did not see the final success of it, that is the passage of the bill for religious freedom in virginia, because i was in france and it was passed in january of 1786. As you know, our friend James Madison had a great deal to do in support of that bill. But you were there at the Constitutional Convention. You did learn of my particular concern, though i was 3000 miles away, that our constitution have a bill of rights that would then keep the government, the federal government of our nation, in the hands of the people. Of course, madison and i contested upon this. He did not think the bill of rights was necessary. But we know that the constitution was finally to be ratified with a bill of rights amended to it. And the first amendment, so necessary. And i think evolving, if i may use the word, from the statute from virginia for religious freedom, that Congress Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. So, barbara, if youre asking me for my own particular religious opinion, i can safely say that i remain on the vestry of saint anns parish in have abermarle county, virginia, where i was baptized. However, as we began our American Revolution and severed our ties with the church of england, i have helped to form what has become known as the American Episcopal Church in virginia. I have even designed what i hope will be the very first church, episcopal church, in charlottesville. There are no churches here as of yet, so i look forward to seeing that being built. But as far as my personal religion, if you will, i inquire of no ones religion, nor do i bother any with my own. Because i believe that a persons religion must solely be between them and their maker. Where has man been more free upon this globe than they are here in our nation, protected by our government, to carry their communion with their maker as they choose . General, i will tell you that in my opinion there could be no further stella, and i mean that as an enlightening example of the freedom for religion, then what you spoke at the Jewish Synagogue up in rhode island. Mr. Washington truth be told, i had written it down. But you actually accompanied me on that visit to newport, rhode island. We had taken a packing ship from new york. And we met with religious leaders of the community of newport, and they presented their letters and gave some oratory and such. In my response to the hebrew congregation in newport, you are correct. I believe that it is fundamental, fundamental in the fabric of this nation, when i had writ that we are a country that will give to bigotry no place, to persecution, no assistance. That everyone can sit happily and safely under their own vine and victory, and there shall be none to make them afraid. With regard to my own personal belief, i am in complete concordance with mr. Jefferson. Religion, at least to myself, is a private matter betwixt an individual and their maker. That said, i have rather wide latitude in my acceptance of other religions. I have once writ that i care not whether a man is a mohammedan or hebrew or a christian of any sect or any religion at all. I think that it is inherent in the beliefs of this country. At least, i hope it is. Another question . Yes. We have a 11 you. We have a fun one for you. Brigitte would like to know what qualities do you find most admirable about each other . Mr. Jefferson oh, my. General, im going to speak first. Im going to speak first on this one because i have admired you from afar during my youth. I made that statement earlier today. I knew of you. You were a legend in our household, and remained so throughout my fathers life. Throughout my dear widowed mother, who proceeded to rear 10 children as a widow. Your virtue and your effort to continue to persevere no matter what the vagaries of nature, shown further in your public life as a burgess under the old regime and as a member of our Continental Congress in philadelphia. I was there one of your earliest supporters, that you be commissioned general, the first general of our nations army. And when i took up the office of governor of our commonwealth, you know my support for our troops was as much as i could provide when all our virginia troops were appearing and disappearing with the seasons and the crops. And though i was not here during that Constitutional Convention, and though i kept in constant correspondence with James Madison, you were foremost, in my mind, being put forth, nominated, and elected the first chief magistrate of our nation. And i was honored, as you well know and i replied in kind, to receive your invitation as the first secretary of our department of foreign affairs, within a few months, as you acknowledged, earlier becoming the department of state. And general, i endeavored to remain loyal in your cabinet. I promised you if you would stand for a second term, that i would endeavor to desist in my disagreements with our secretary of the treasury, and you know, general, as you took upon your shoulders, that weight, that responsibility as the head of our nation, upon which rested the north and the south on your shoulders, to keep us E Pluribus Unum. I will ever lament that i broke my promise. I simply could not remain silent in what i believed in my heart and my conscience could be harmful to our public good. I thank you for accepting my resignation. I only hope, general, that you will ever know, as rest you assured i have written, in every sense of the words, i will continue to consider you a very good man, a very great man, and a very wise man. Mr. Washington well, thank you for those kind words and the approbation. Truth be told, thomas, i too regretted your resignation and the breaking of the vow that you made to me. So this is at once a very easy question for me to answer, and a very difficult one. It is easy because, quite simply, mr. Jefferson is one of the most illuminated minds in all of united america. You would be hardpressed to find an exemplar of greater patriotism, a man who would never knowingly do anything that would cause harm to his beloved country. He is a passable farmer as well. [laughter] if you will allow me, although we have both failed miserably in our attempts to grow wine making grapes. But that is a story for another day. I have had times in my life where i considered mr. Jefferson a friend, and i have had times in my life where i have felt an estrangement from him. That is, i believe, the natural arc that passions in a relationship will pick from. I should leave that there. Thank you. Could you speak a little to the role of Political Parties and general washingtons presidency and beyond . You touched on this but do you believe Political Parties are beneficial . Mr. Washington [laughter] mr. Jefferson general, you know that i do believe they are necessary. You know that i do believe at the same time, the further example of your great virtue is to believe that E Pluribus Unum means that a difference of opinion ought never be a difference of principle as an american. And that we should continue to cojoin and compromise and resolve our differences. You know that i sincerely and deeply believe in that, and you know it was very difficult for me to maintain my silence after you took your second oath of office and convened your cabinet meetings. However, general, i do believe that our creator has created our minds free from any temporal restraint, and therefore to try and denounce or suppress the liberty of ones opinion in matters of politics, which ought to help continue to improve us, let alone the progress of politics to improve the condition of mankind, we must be free to express, that even if it means it may be disagreeable to our fellow americans. And so, therefore, i think that political platforms are necessary. In our nation, there has never been a greater opportunity that they can reign free, not as monarchy, but reign freely on behalf of the people. That better represents the people when they have that liberty to express their concerns, particularly for that government in whose hands they are entrusted to hold the reins. Therefore, i continue not to deny your virtue and integrity, the hope that we can continue as one, forward. But to welcome, if you will, that principle, to be supported through difference of opinion, and the principle of compromise. Mr. Washington you know, mr. Jefferson, E Pluribus Unum has been stated thrice during this conversation. And Political Party tears that sentiments asunder. However constructive Political Parties may seem, from time to time, they are, in my opinion, and as i have written in my farewell address, a bane for this country. Because Political Parties, by their nature, tend to serve the interest of the party, and not the interest of the nation. And typically, the self interest of a small number of unscrupulous men. Political party tends to elevate individuals, and individuals from one party or another, whichever party happens to be in power at a given time. And it raises this individual to a point in which we look at them to solve all of our answers instead of agreeing to do the hard work that we as a nation must do. Political parties do not serve this nation. What they do is create factions and they create divisions, and while i am not a student of latin, i do believe that is the exact opposite of E Pluribus Unum. Okay, well, final question, gentlemen. What are your hopes for the future of this nation . Mr. Jefferson general, if you will, you should have the last word on this, as a last question. You were the first of our chief magistrates, and i know that you will ever remain in the hearts of our countrymen. In kind through many, many we hope unending administrations to follow. General, my hopes, i know, are yours. I know that we hope for our nation to continue to pursue a more distinct and direct government of, by, and for the people. I am hopeful that all of that which we inherited from our ancestors, that has been both detrimental and denying of the freedom and liberty of the family of man, throughout the family of man, may be rectified and that our nation may continue as a beacon of light for the rest of the world, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, but that man holds an inalienable right to nature to burst through chains of ignorance and assume the reins of self government. You led us through the war, and extensive bloodshed, to achieve this goal as a reality. You led us in the formation of our first government, the first line of which, we, the people, provides that hope for the future. And so therefore, general, i thank you, i will thank you for your valor, your honesty, your integrity, your virtue. I thank you for your leadership and i thank you for the hope that you were able to secure for the future of our nation and generations yet unborn. Mr. Washington your words are very kind and they have touched me. I know that they are sincere. My hope is for the nation, for the citizenry of this country, i want contentment, satisfaction, and happiness of the citizenry to continue. I want to see prosperity of our agriculture, commerce, and manufacturies. I want to see public credit controlled, in that we do not foist debt onto the shoulders of future generations. I hope to see the scourge of war gone forever. I would like us to continue to be a neutral nation, have neither permanent friends nor permanent enemies, engage in commerce and trade with all. I would hope that we are an asylum for the poor and the oppressed of all nations and all religions. That we are a storehouse and a greenery for the entirety of the world. Of course, as we both spoke to earlier, i hope through legislation to see slavery abolished. We will be a shining example for freedom loving nations everywhere, for our country is based, itself, our government, on genuine principles of rational liberty, and with mild and wholesome laws. Finally, i hope that each citizen shall be favourably inclined to do justice to one another. And thomas, you spoke of a beacon. I want we the people to aspire. I want the citizenry of this country to see a beacon for ourselves to go towards, to aspire for our own betterment, and a more perfect union. Mr. Jefferson, it has been a rare, interesting, and deeply appreciated conversation with yourself, and i thank you. Mr. Jefferson you know, as always, im your humble and obedient servant. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] soleimani American History tv announcer American History tv, every weekend. Coming up on sunday morning at 830 at 830 a. M. , we are alive looking back at the 1952 first televised president ial campaign at ads. And the author of daisy petals and mushroom clouds, lbj, Barry Goldwater and the ad that changed american politics. We will take your phone calls to my Facebook Comments and tweets. At 6 00 p. M. , a look at layton national cemeterys memorability a box, placed there by woodrow wilson. And i it 00 p. M. , life and legacy of roosevelt. At American History tv, this weekend on cspan3. Announcer next, we hear about the decades long project to compile Thomas Jeffersons correspondence and other papers so that the sage of monticello will be more accessible to the public. J Jefferson Leumi is editor and chief of the retirement series, the papers covering to 1826