Transcripts For DW The Day 20240714

Process over like the utilities for the brain most of who can doubt it because he made this possible and they will need to cut jungle. I think its best if they deny everything they dont cooperate nothing. Also coming up tonight as countries around the world strengthen their borders and put up walls to keep out refugees we go to uganda a country that is welcoming more people than ever would you look at the infrastructure before we have constructed access whats in that if it is a tremendous well constructed discourse or structed its a city. International investigators have named 4 suspects who will face murder charges. The shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight m. H. 75 years ago the team in charge of the Program House that one ukrainian and 3 russian men would be facing charges for their alleged involvement in downing the plane back in july 2014 flight m h 17 was hit by a russian made missile while flying over Eastern Ukraine all 298 people on board were killed most were from the netherlands. Heres what one member of the Investigative Team the dutch chief prosecutor had to say. For them to feel on the cross the kitchen is charging these 4 men because we believe it was their plan their cooperation and their actions in july 2014 that led to the downing of flight m. H. 17 rules need some of even though they didnt push the button themselves there is a suspicion that they worked together to obtain the missile launcher and put it in position with the goal of shooting down a plane. And to talk more about the findings of the dutch led investigation want to bring in our correspondent of a vessel in brussels whos been tracking this investigation for the past 5 years and in kiev ukraine standing by is nick calio to get reaction from there want to start off with you barbara if i may it was of course evidently a very complex case it walk us through why was it did it take this long to determine who the suspects are. Because the letter was incredibly painstaking work because we just remember how much it took a difficult it was to put the puzzle pieces together to reconstruct the downed airliner and to prove that it was in fact shot by an antiaircraft missile and then the next step to sort of figure out which battery which aircraft launcher it was at that particular day in july 2013 in that project in the region off east ukraine and sort of give a name to it in figure out where it was and who was and then the next step off of course and probably the most difficult was to sift through sounds and stuff intercepted telecoms and social media messages between people being in the area at that time between the military between militias and everybody who was involved in this conflict at that time and people were using names like dolphin and orion those were the 2 who were now being accused and to figure out who was behind those names so it was very difficult to make want to go to you in. Can you tell us more about the suspect. So these 4 men 3 of them all russian citizens the 4th is a ukrainian citizen the 3 russian citizens are all believed to have connections to russias special Security Services and you basically have the full chain from the ghosts. Otherwise known as still called who at the time was the selfproclaimed minister of defense of the dont yet separatists government right down to people who were on the grounds near the battery when the launch of the rocket happened people who were also believed to have been involved in recovering the black box of the malaysian boeing and the jihadi investigates initially and then organizing the return of the book Missile System to russia after the tragedy occurred and then what is the reaction in ukraine where you are to the murder charges that were brought by dutch prosecutors. Well weve had statements both from current president villages alinsky and his predecessor was in charge of ukraine when this happened was a sense of vindication that the ukrainian version of events that this was something that was carried out by russian weaponry and organized by people with connections to russia that seemingly was very welcome to have that confirmation from the netherlands today having said that though this story isnt playing as big here in ukraine as it probably is in the rest of europe because as youll remember since the tragedy of july 24th scene thousands of people have died in this conflict that the dying still continues up to the last week so in a way for ukraine this is just part of a much bigger story that continues to dominate life here whereas we see for most of the rest of europe this is a reason to remember to go back to this conflict which shows no sign of ending well it barbara its a go to you i mean this is of course playing very very big in the netherlands a date and time has been set for Court Proceedings by dutch officials i just wonder i mean how likely is it that the suspects will actually ever spend a day in court. It is extremely unlikely as far as the 3 russians are concerned the more or less impossible there will be a trial it will be in a sense is so there wont be in the courtroom but of course legally that is possible there will probably even be a verdict but nobody will go to jail for it the ukraine has sort of that they might look for their own citizen who was implicated in this and arrest him but then what happens would be up to them how they deal with this but nothing will really come of it it isnt the symbolic act it is a symbolic start i want to continue our on that in that vein barbara because of course the majority of the victims on the mh 17 were dutch i mean they have been through a horrifying experience i just wonder i mean is this really justice what justice will look like for them is it meaningless this is just a symbolic act to hold this hold these people accountable it wont be meaningless because at least people have been named and there will probably be a verdict but of course it will remain a very partial set a section this is only partial justice this is probably the best theyre ever going to get and they have some knowledge to come to terms with it that this is somehow all that the netherlands and the other countries who have who have been involved in the Investigation Team can do in the before them because the rest is politics and the kremlin is not budging in this question not entirely immediately there nic are russia didnt cooperate with the investigation in moscow has of course for years very early maintained and denied any involvement in the shooting down of m. H. 17 but investigators say they have grounds to believe russian servicemen were involved will there be any repercussions for the kremlin. Well heres the crucial the crucial information here is that those 3 russian citizens of the 4 now implicated they all roll veterans of russian Security Services the question is were they still in active service or were they receiving orders from moscow at the time of this disaster the ukrainian side is vehement that they were but this has been a pattern all through the investigation not only of this tragedy but of deaths resulting from this conflict russia saying that people who previously had been identified as military personnel had either taken holiday to go and serve as volunteers in the separatist forces or had left active service is just a matter of days before leaving for Eastern Ukraine so that is the crucial distinction that the russians are likely to make in terms of the repercussions of moscow well i think it is going to be something that moves away from the sphere of justice to the sphere of diplomacy as bob are saying there is the west western governments willing really to put pressure on moscow and to really not take this policy of obfuscation and weve heard over the last 5 years moscow offering various versions. Their versions of this disaster initially saying that it was a ukrainian plane who shot down that shot down this malaysian boeing or that it was a ukrainian battery launching lots of contradictory versions that seemingly did little to bring any clarity to this case and this is really a question of political will now right now barbara i want to give you the last word if i may does this now mean that the investigation into the downing of m. H. 17 is done. No the investigation will carry on lot of because the investigators say were not done yet however the question is what can the chief they might be able to and they have names have been floating around for a considerable time to name the people who have been manning this rocket launch of this particular book aircraft miss a who was operating on that day that is one part but the other part of course looking at the higher echelons off the Russian Military and particularly as nic mentioned of course the military secret service and how much knowledge how much insight does the west have and how far is willing to go that is completely up in the air in the end quite doubtful of a cell in brussels and nic connelly in kiev reporting i think you both. Are United Nations human rights expert says Saudi Crown Prince mohammed bin someone should be investigated over the killing of the journalist democracy the uns agnus a column are cited what she called credible evidence of in some minds liability and wednesdays report she said she found that the troops conducted so far by saudi arabia and turkey had failed to meet International Standards because she was killed last october at the saudi consulate in istanbul. Like to welcome a now Andrew Miller to the show he is the Deputy Director of project on middle east democracy mr miller has served under president barack obama at the National Security council and he joins us now from washington mr miller so good to have you back on the show again and your assessment does this u. N. Report conclusively prove that the saudi leadership was behind the murder of mr. It still doesnt conclusively prove that he was behind the murder but the report explicitly notes that there doesnt have to be a smoking gun that by virtue of muhammad been saw mons position as the de facto head of state within saudi arabia that its inconceivable he wasnt aware of the plot against the show she and that under International Human rights laws he is legally liable in some respects so even if he did not direct or order his assassination he is morally and legally complicit in the journalist death so what now what next. What the un special repertory recommends is twofold 1st that the u. N. Secretary general open an International Investigation and she actually chides the secretary general saying that he doesnt have to wait for requests that he has it in his own authority to initiate some type of investigation into what took place and 2nd report in a very unusual step calls for specific action by the United States by both the administration in initiating an f. B. I. Investigation if one doesnt exist and one app and given his show shes presence in the United States and to apply global magnitsky sanctions which are human rights related sanctions on those who are found responsible the report also calls on klon brits to investigate what happened to call for the administration to turn over all Available Evidence including classified material that can shed light on mohamed bin psalm on its role and who else was responsible for the death of mr showed how likely is it mr miller that this administration the Trump Administration will take a leadership role in this investigation. Unfortunately it is it is difficult if not impossible to imagine that the Trump Administration will lead the way on this issue the trumpet ministrations Foreign Policy has been quite scattered and quite unpredictable but in one respect its been consistent and that is saudi arabia is a privileged partner if not of the United States at least of the trump of ministration and President Trump and those around him including secretary a. O. And his son in law jordan questioner have done Everything Possible to shield muhammad bin psalm on from any culpability and to show shes death what this means is that its up to congress to determine what happens congress is a coequal branch of government including in Foreign Policy in the United States and knowing that the administration will destruct any Investigation Congress has to force the hand of the administration if congress can come together on a bipartisan basis and a bi caramel basis they can achieve Real Progress in the investigation and hopefully get to the bottom of what happened but of course as you know better than anybody else there are a lot of Strategic Interests involved as well do you think it will trump human rights. So far it has at least for some members of congress frankly in both parties while there is generally a general desire for some type of some type of investigation and some type of oversight even democratic lawmakers are reluctant to impose sanctions or to hold mohamed been psalm on responsible for fear that it would end the relationship i think from the perspective of many of us in the Human Rights Community that you cant have a strategic relationship with a country that wouldnt gaijin such conduct and unfortunately. Murder is just a kind of a piece of a variety of actions that saudi arabia has undertaken domestically and regionally under mohamed bin psalm on that has been clearly contrary to u. S. Strategic interests as well as to American Values including freedom of the press and freedom of speech what are the stakes for saudi arabia i mean what is the impact of this u. N. Report on saudi and its standing in the world. I having spoken with a number of people who are normally defenders of saudi arabia both within the United States and outside of it the general sentiment is that this wont be forgotten that no matter how hard the Trump Administration and mohamed bin so man try to divert attention from this issue that its going to fall in mohamed bin samana long as a stain on his record as a stain on his stewardship of the country and given that mohammed bin psalm on and his father king saul mon expect him to rule for decades this is something thats going to remain a thorn in his side and ultimately if hes unable to dig out of this hole that hes created for himself if hes unable to establish some degree of remorse for whats happened as well as redirect the saudi state to behave more responsibly its not clear that the saudi u. S. Relationship is going to survive in its current form or that saudi arabia will be looked on in the same wide by the International Community as a. Producing actor as some state that is actually working towards a Global Public good which which consists of stability security and some degree of predictability in saudi arabia simply isnt that at the moment joining us from washington Andrew Miller Deputy Director of the project on middle east democracy said thanks again for coming on its my pleasure thank you. New figures from the u. N. Refugee agency show record numbers of people have been displaced by war or persecution more than 70000000 people around the world are currently displaced most of the refugees are taken in by developing countries 4th on the list of countries hosting refugees is uganda will take a closer look at this african nation and ask why this country has been more welcoming to refugees than many others. Seem vice seem stitch by stage it is phony is making a new dress she recently trained as a seamstress as part of a u. N. Refugee aid project in 2016 she fled with her family from war torn south sudan to uganda. On the way of the rebels came they took her property tortured us into print ways and beat us. Liberals its like millions of others from south sudan edith and her family found refuge in uganda refugee a. T. F. Functions differently people arent simply confined to a camp liking kenya refugees who were arriving here are immediately given a work permit and land which is provided by the communities and then you neighbors they also receive monthly benefits. We have cash on foot as well because when we give them food get that is restricted to the food that weve given them but when you give them cash they have the option to buy and supplement what to buy that debt that that is so its optional ugandans have a strong willingness to give to those in need for 20 years they also suffered during the civil war they also benefit from International Aid which can be used to build hospitals or schools but of course there are still challenges. I see young school we have an almost challenge is one of it is the infrastructure like the classrooms are not and now we dont have a say in celebratory we dont have labor ready though we have the books but we have nowhere to put to them then also teachers move from fire these things to come here so there are no stuff or does then most of the students especially the girl tail move from 5 distance to come and learn in the school. No bit of room a school is in a jew money district in the north of the country 400000 people live here half of them are refugees some of whom arrived here 50 years ago many of from south sudan where the most recent civil war broke out in 2013 its led to an ongoing conflict between rival factions titus jogo the refugee officer in the district is happy that the refugees were able to find a new place to call home in uganda he believes it benefits the locals to the prisoners over the summer and yours is so many people have been bullied not enough not in a sort of from the discipline strict but it was well underway tucks when you look at the infrastructure before we have constructed access whats in that if it is a tremendous well constructed discourse of course structed it says it does but there are also negative aspects results is like would supplies on to winning in january this year almost 6000 more refugees arrived in uganda but it wants to keep its borders open and can only manage this influx with the help of aid money at least for the time being as ugandas policies continue to be put into action its hoped that refugees will become selfsufficient like seamstress aegis phony. And earlier ditto views on your kerner spoke with the uns high commissioner for refugees for the program he appealed for more international cooperation. High commission and nearly 71000000 people worldwide are displaced all refugees a high increase in numbers compared to last year what other reasons. The main one is inability to resolve conflict to put an end to wars all wars chronic wars new wars new crisis unless this is addressed to gether unanimously by the International Community we will continue to see these figures rise how should the World Leaders address the situation by working together we have seen that even in the crisis that have caused the worst humanitarian problems like syria like libya like yemen we have not seen unity on the part of the International Community unless there is unity in the Security Council where germany sits and tries to encourage a unit in other fora unless there is this unity of intent we would not solve conflict and we will continue to inflict the consequences of conflict on millions of people that make this very difficult choice to leave behind everything that they hold dear and go into exile. About half of the refugees are children what impact does it have on their lives that they have to grow up in a situation like this and isnt that a dramatic element of this whole situation children do not make choices they just leave because its dangerous for them and the dangers are multiplied by their fragility by their exposure be it to disease be to hunger especially in some situations be it to exploitation and abuse which sadly we see many of these conflicts and another thing that i think is very important education you know being on the move being in exile makes it reduces your chances to get a good education and we can only imagine why. What generations of children without education may mean so we really need to act on all these things at the same time. A huge number of people are refugees at the same time a lot of countries try to close their borders so what is your message to those governments this is the result of the political manipulation that has been made of this movement of people forced movement of people presenting them us threats presenting them as people that are coming here to steal our jobs and to threaten our security instead of presenting them us people in need of solidarity and support and instead of being strategic in trying to address the root causes i agree that we want to put an end to these phenomena and i also believe that 71000000 is a big figure but when you look at the world 7500000000. 00 people it is a manageable figure it can only be managed by working together by the dramatize in the whole issue of refugees and migrants and by being strategic about looking at the root causes if we start working in that manner and not continuously put back the issue into the political domain we will make progress for the people affected and for all of us high commissioner thank you very much. And that of course was due to overuse i now kerner with the uns high commissioner for refugees for the program and that was the day as ever the conversation continues online youll find us on twitter at twitter rather either at news or atlanta iraq dont forget to use our hash tag that day and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow. Surrounded by coal mines. This is the village of a creamy in northern greece. People were getting ready to move away until it turned out theres no call here. That was 8 years ago. Little bit up our job is a disaster no one seems to carry everything up to the. Next. Filleted have to get through the bundesliga break without a football thanks again. To the womens vote coming in from. Weeks of excitement action emotion not some. Its crazy nights of womens movement. The goals of the results on t. W. Me its. What keeps us in shape what makes us see and how do we stay healthy. My name is dr carson he could i talk to medical experts. Watch them at work. And i discuss what you can do to improve go ahead. Stay tuned and lets all try to stay. Cool d. W. To. People for information. Opinions on the stress. Of facebook and twitter up to date and in touch follow us expects. You. To. Go to. Thanks. Oh and a very warm welcome indeed to focus on europe with me peter craven and we begin in belarus with a Development Project of trance european proportions which is though stirring up major controversy its a new International Shipping route called the efore t. Waterway 2000 kilometers inland its designed to make the baltic sea in the new