Louder my guest this week from budapest is voloshin vacate a hug area an m. E. P. From the ruling field test party is the government being honest about his motives or is its new law just the latest move to cement or thora terry and. For that his regular welcome to conflicts on yes hello good morning why did your Prime Minister need an emergency law to deal with a pandemic everyone else relies on testing tracing quarantines lockdowns but you have to have a law that goes off to people who criticize the author already is why. Well very simply everything has been done according to the hungary constitution the government run the pandemic when the virus situation began declared a state of danger it can do it for 2 weeks following the 2 weeks is the hungary in parliament that has the right to decide whether to prolong its or not and thats whats happened to hungary and parliament decided to prolong the situation as long as the pandemic was there we are now nearing the end thankfully of the emergency situation that has been tackled quite well it seems thanks god and thanks to the good efforts of the government so were coming to the and of this state of emergency a state of danger very similar things and very similar special. Orders of special decisions have been made across the European Union for that matter to do you know its accepted but they havent they havent cracked down on people who criticize the authorities the way you have this virus has in effect just given your government the opportunity for grabbing more power and cracking down on opposition hasnt it you dont need these powers its all over you dont need these powers at all. Not at all thats far from the truth in fact the hunger in government the Christian Democratic Coalition has a 2 thirds majority in the hungary and parliament why would we have to do anything to increase our power we have an extraordinarily Strong Political mandate thanks to be hungry and population and thanks to the results of the last elections we didnt crack a gun or anything we just had to deal with a situation that was extraordinary in every sense of the word mr ball actually im thankful that you say you didnt crackdown but the police said last week hunger and police said last week that opened nearly 90 cases of scare mongering against citizens since your emergency law took effect lets be honest this is nothing but a concerted attempt to stamp out criticism of the government and its policies and that it has nothing to do with criticism of the governmental criticism of political issues quite simply during a state of danger and during a state of pandemic that has been as dangerous as this one control has to be accomplished but according to the law and according to the constitution rule of law works of hungary very well and if there was no ground. To go after anybody 4 or 4 of scaremongering or any other thing then the case was closed according to the law so there actually the special order in a special situation has shown that it was under control and it was according again to the constitution your law makes clear that its not just going after people who put out false facts youre even going after people who according to this law section 337 paragraph one mis represent true facts in other words if the government doesnt like the way people interpret their facts they could face up to 5 Years Imprisonment couldnt they. And thats free speech on the aerial star its not about now not its not its not it has nothing to do with political opinion it has nothing to do with free speech or liberty of thought it has to do with spreading fake information force information that have nothing to do with the facts under a situation during a situation where there is increased danger of the population because of a pandemic you have to make sure that only reality and real facts are transmitted well only your reality big news only your reality only the reality that the government sees 2 cases were brought to the attention of the hungary and Civil Liberties union which condemned the detention of 2 facebook users who criticize the government and the confiscation of their communication devices as obviously excessive you happy about that Police Excessive behavior. There was no Police Excessive behavior of these people the 2 people that you mention were let free within some hours within the same day after their case was looked at let me tell you this in germany over the past few months almost 40 cases were reported where police one tough to people because of commons because of posts on facebook or other social Media Outlets there is an incredible there is an extraordinary situation and on top of it on social media all kinds of news are transmitted and i thought thor it is across the European Union or across the whole world i might say are trying to find a way to deal with that so with that public order is maintained and also the rights of everybody are respected mr wallace you said that 2 people were released in the case of one of them undress in the north of the country the case was dropped but not before police had uploaded a video on the internet of him being escorted from his home and into a police car thats trial by internet this is nothing more than thuggish intimidation by your police isnt it and it was condemned by the and garion Civil Liberties. Committee as having a Chilling Effect on many ordinary social media users thats exactly what its meant to do isnt it to have this Chilling Effect scare the population into silence and eradicate criticism. Not not at all in fact if you look at the Public Discourse if you look at hungary in politics if you look at the parliament we have one of the most vibrant debates here across the whole European Union where the whole range of various opinions and different points of views are presented and can be presented to us right that way theres no intimidation at all those. Those are. Commentaries have nothing to do with reality i dont think well you may not like the accusations against your country and well well look at some of them in detail but your denials that hungary was undertaking any anti democratic moves havent exactly been believed have they and particularly now we have the Reporters Without Borders organization saying that youve passed an orwellian law that introduces a full blown Information Police state in the heart of europe i give you a couple of examples which were criticized by the hungary and Civil Liberties union and you reject them out of hand you said in the past the accusations against hungary are false hungry has a free and independent world of justice science and education i wonder who on earth did you think was going to believe you when you said these things when the evidence to the contrary is so overwhelming. I dont think the evidence is overwhelming at all against hungary and government in fact if you look at the results of of a series of elections in hungary free elections them practical actions the feed Us Government has won one after the other because the people believe that the country is in good hands the people believe the majority of people believe that the government is doing a good job and they would like it to continue to do a good job also there are debates at the european level there are debates in the European Parliament there are debates amongst has of state and government and all spokesmen coast on which whose opinion matters but there are debates political debates by the way the law the special though about the coronavirus in hungary that was in the in the middle of so much criticism some weeks ago was looked at in detail by the European Commission which is the guardian of the treaties of how the European Union works and they found that in no way did it go against any democratic norm or european law and they said that repeatedly so there is a difference between a Political Campaign there is a difference between pressure groups saying you know what they would like to say because their ideology their very values are different from the fetUs Government and the difference between that and the fact and the real look at facts and reality and the real record of the government well lets look at what some of your people think about that according to one survey between march the 3rd and march the 10th by the free but foundation 50 percent half of your citizens now think that conditions for democracy and press freedom have worsened in hungary this was before your emergency law and only 17 percent 17 thought that thered been any progress in that field in those fields doesnt say much for your democratic credentials does it. I dont think so there are several surveys in fact only able to confirm is a well known the social democratic or foundation its very nice no problem with it youre saying its slanting it out into other surveys youre saying its going to be at times i just said the fact i understood i just said the fact that its a social Democratic Foundation and its a value system and perhaps that has an influence sometimes on how they interpret findings but im not questioning their fining im just saying that there are several surveys but the most Important Survey of course is always in a democracy elections parties go for elections defeat Us Government has been reelected 3 times with an overwhelming majority and that has you something i think about the real record of the government and the real situation hungry that is worth looking at i think i want to come on to the topic of elections and how you manage them and how youve changed various laws relating to the election since since you came to power but lets just look at the press you maintain that hungary has a Diverse Press and free speech and criticism of the government is allowed the fact is your government does go around smearing the few independent journalists in your country who are left as hungry haters foreign agents or traitors doesnt it and it does use its enormous Financial Resources to try and put independent journalists out of business as the joint International Press Freedom Mission to hungary reported last year state advertising has been weaponized to fund progovernment media and staff independent outlets did you seriously think mr head vaguely that people didnt notice what was going on. Well they are drawing the wrong conclusions obviously if they say such things in fact political debate as i said before and Public Discourse in general is one of the freest in the European Union is more taboo free than in many other places in western europe or elsewhere in the European Union topics are freely discussed there is more of a balance of media if you look at the media structure and if you look at the value system behind the medias or what kind of ideology they prefer there there is a big variety of hungry perhaps more of a variety than in other places that these organizations are are used to state funding and advertising as much as this is state or as much as it is companies spread across the board so i dont think there is when you and you say that in balance in the hunger and situation at home you say that but all Regional Daily newspapers are now under government control and and you call that a free press theres only one independent Political Daily newspaper left and thats imbued a pest with a circulation of just 20000 by contrast the network of Regional Daily papers controlled by the government reaches 200000 people one single independent talk Radio Station whose audience is restricted to be the past and you call that a fair balance. Well thats thats not the whole of the picture there are other regional newspapers and theres not only print media obviously and theres not only traditional radio frequencies there is now also the internet and if you look at for example internet based news portals if you look at political weekly newspapers both printed and online if you look at online really are stations there is a balance here and there are in fact there are in fact if you look at the online world a heavy bias or heavy advantage towards the critical media towards the government Freedom House accuse your government of dropping any pretense of respecting Democratic Institutions taking over much of the media its head and harrison Critical Society organization hungarys decline that it has been the most precipitous ever tracked in its survey of nations in transit thats not much to be proud of is it. Well Freedom House once was an organization that the virus cracked it i dont think there analyses over the past couple of years have been trustworthy or based on facts in fact let me pose the question to you if it were true just of your argument if it were true there was that there was so little freedom or no freedom in the media or in the Public Discourse in hungary then why and how could we have such a lively debate about political issues in hungary about social issues in hungary about the European Union and there and a whole range of other issues in hungary then it would be an impossible to have those debates there is now more of a need for prepress free press and angrier than ever before isnt there especially since corruption has blossomed under your partys rule in september 29000 europe santy fraud office oluf warned that when it came to misappropriation of e. U. Funds hungary was the worst performing state in the e. U. Nearly 4 percent of you provided money was misused and should have been returned during the 20142018 reporting period thats pretty shameful isnt it they were looking at in fact of all of situations and projects that go back to the time before the government the European Parliament was just voting by the way this past week about. About some of those reports in the functioning of all of and other agencies those go back to as far as 200520067 those were years before the federal government began to function now in a more general sense but trying to 14 to 2018 weve had time to give the money back there is. There is there is corruption everywhere obviously in the e. U. And they have to be looked into if you look at the way for example investigations by the Public Prosecutor and by police are initiated based on recommendations by all of this European Union union agency hungary is amongst the best in fact performers of the percentage of how many cases are looked into following a lot of things there are similar cases with other European Union Member States i reject the opinion that there would be more corruption or significantly more corruption in hungary than in an average situation in the region or in the in the European Union well it must be a comfort for you and other members of your party the fetus now enjoys an effective stranglehold over prosecutors offices the Constitutional Court the curia the highest court of appeal and the audit office grand slam to your party a total total control of the organs of just all that is not the case or thought that is not the case at all that is an often repeated political attack by a frustrated hunger an opposition that hasnt been able to win elections for a good number of National Elections now and they are frustrated they have been unsuccessful but that doesnt make truthful there was actually stations that you have just repeated well after mr obama came to power he raised the number of justices on the Constitutional Court from 11 to 15 thereby appointing 4 of his own judges even lower the compulsory retirement age for judges and prosecutors freeing up hundreds of posts for candidates loyal to the party so having all your party sympathizers in such key judicial positions is hardly a gallon t. Of impartiality is. Well 1st of all the 2nd thing you mention depression age that has been redrawn it has not been in a fact and raising the number of judges in the Constitutional Court was simply. A reaction to the number of cases before the Constitutional Court those those appointments are not by the way not by department of but they are by parliament and they are not for life so there is obviously a normal functioning of the judges being on the Constitutional Court and then the Parliament May think you want so nothing really changed just because the number was increased misstate vague you just dont guarantee complete control your party set up a National Judiciary office run by. Who just happened to be a student contemporary of mr or bans and the way it was set up made it impossible for parliament to sack shes been on a salable for her 9 year term hasnt she with power of this kind by your party the Justice System is almost guaranteed to be biased in your favor isnt it. Not at all she is no longer by the way leader of that organisation she is now a member of the Constitutional Court and there are a lively debates within the judicial system there is another body there are the National Council and they have had lively debates over the past couple of years and thats right that way theres no problem we dont at all just another illustration that the system works we have debates and then there are that comes that are a result of like lively debate yes but she was in a position where she could veto judicial promotions and even influence which judges heard which cases thats a lot of power just vested in your job like in the number of other just like just like in the number of other e. U. Member states that can happen there are you Member States where is the minister of justice who makes those appointments there are countries that dont even have a Public Prosecutor there are countries that where there is no formal. Cross to show of course there are different constitutional identities and systems within the European Union and they are all democratic just the fact that they are different does not mean that they are undemocratic there are different ways to organize the judicial system and you are having a hard days youre having a hard time convincing people in the rest of europe about your democratic credentials lets look if we may add to that other democratic feature that you prize elections which you talked about. After 2010 your party wasted no time in redrawing the electoral map in change constituency boundaries to favor your own supporters and riding roughshod over objections in other words gerrymandering was rife wasnt it. It wasnt the system was made famous for we have reduced the number of members of parliament from over 382 are to just 199 we have streamlined the electoral system there was no gerrymandering and in fact if you look at the the latest local elections for 4 townships the opposition one important positions for instance mayor of budapest was taken over the poster made of good press was taken over by the opposition as well as they wanted a number of other countries and municipalities there is again a well functioning democratic system both the always see the United Nations observers and others. Confirmed that theres no democratic problem with hungary an electoral system and there was no gerrymandering let me go back to your point that you mentioned in your question you said we had difficulty convincing our European Partners i think you said about hungary and democracy on the contrary its our political opponents that dont want to accept that there can be a government a conservative christian democratic government that is strong that is decisive and successful lets talk in the brief time we have left about your countrys treatment of migrants youve made it perfectly clear you dont want them in hungary youve refused routinely to take them in and share the burden with the rest of the e. U. And now youve been found to be in breach of e. U. Law earlier this month the European Court of justice found your detention of Asylum Seekers on the border with serbia to have been illegal its a damning indictment of the hunger his treatment of Asylum Seekers in the. There is a debate right now and its partly a legal debate on this a bit about european law and asylum or you mentioned this verdict of the European Court of justice i mention other one just a few months ago that of the european core court of human rights business trials were going to bring to the council of europe they all saw looked at a very similar case about the transit zone and how migrants or Asylum Seekers are treated by hungry and they found that the transit zone in hungary or the border of hungary was not detention at all since it was open towards serbia in that particular case and not not close well thats why the european you say that but the European Court of justice mr vega the European Court of justice said you detain 2 families seeking asylum in a border transit zone for more than a year giving them the opportunity to have their detention reviewed by a court and with no opportunity to lawfully leave that zone of their free will in any direction how does illegal detention fit in with your much trumpeted views about protecting Europes Christian heritage whats christian about that sort of behavior. Let me be very quick they are not deterred not detained they can leave that transit zone whenever they want toward serbia from where they came from these families i think christian responsibility means that you help people where they are you take have where help is needed instead of bringing the problem into the European Union that is unable to deal with hundreds of thousands or millions of migrants coming into this continent thats not the way forward the past 5 years have shown very clearly that so thats an interesting excuse thats an interesting excuse me state of a given amount which you which are not without bible teaching which bible teaching sanction forced and illegal detention of travelers and migrants who have nothing there is no cause and theres no need for theres no force the tension of hunger is waters those who come and stay in the frances own can at any time that they wish go back and leave from where they came from it is not it is not a detention europe can only deal with the hundreds of thousands of people in need in the middle east in africa elsewhere in asia if it brings together puts together its strength and takes have to those regions in need its not the interest of those regions that they that they lose their most. Best people that can work and that could have those territories to develop your rights take out to those areas there instead of instead of legalizing illegal entry into either hungary or anywhere else all right European Union thats the last word and its not supported by the european people. Were out of time thank you very much for being on country. Thank you very much and do. Thanks. To. Paul. What keeps us in shape what makes us see kentucky stamp. My name is dr carson because i talk to medical experts. Watch them at work. And they discuss what you can do to go ahead. Stay tuned and lets all try to stay. Good shit. On bush. Happiness tears for everyone schumann claim is a very different from primates you know we have a totally ridiculous romanticized view of nature david and this is Climate Change brags of sex how freeness improves books you get smarter for free you know where your books arent going to go but. To go beyond beyond. That. Were all about the stories that matter to you. Come true a book whatever it takes to get a running out of Touch Exchange but really not a job you just made for mines. Some people dont care about me. Because they dont see night beauty. Some people dont care about me because they think i have nothing to give. But 2000000000 you can do. To them i am in free think. Their home. The f. O. Did. Their livelihood. But day by day i might disappear. And so does everything i gave. To the 1000000000 people who care about me. Me me me. And now. This is a good news life from. Forcing millions in india and bangladesh to flee to safety the storm has already claimed 2 lives as it pushes in london the coronavirus is making it even more difficult to keep people safe also on the Program Global Carbon Emissions fold by nearly 20 percent as commuters stay home during the
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