Promised to spend 4 billion to make their workplaces safer and keep their products moving. What does that look like . 60 minutes was invited in to see. They can take someones temperature that fast. ticking 60 minutes has spent the last year and a half investigating buildityourself firearms called ghost guns. This is a firearm that was manufactured by a licensed manufacture. The law requires them the america them with certain markings, including a serial number. This is not marked. No background check is completed when you purchase it. Its made at home by somebody using commonly available tools. So they ticking im lesley stahl. Im bill whitaker. Im anderson cooper. Im scott pelley. Those stories, tonight, on 60 minutes. ticking this portion of 60 minutes is sponsored by progressive insurance. Save when you bundle awtd, home, or motorcycle insurance. Visit progressive. Com. Pelley peter daszak is a scientist whose work is helping in the search for a covid19 cure. So, why did the president just dasndin its the kind of politics which might seem illadvised in a health crisis. President trump is blaming chinas government for the pandemic. The outbreak was first detected in the city of wuhan. The administration has said, at times, the virus is manmade or that, if its natural, it must have leaked out of a Chinese Government lab. Both the white house and the Chinese Communist party have been less than honest. And so, in china and in the u. S. , the work of scientists like peter daszak is being undercut by pandemic politics. Peter daszak is a britishborn american ph. D. Whos spent a career discovering dangerous viruses in wildlife, especially bats. In 2003, in malaysia, he warned 60 minutes a pandemic was coming. Peter daszak what worries me the most is that we are going to miss the next emerging disease, that were suddenly going to find a sars virus that moves from one part of the planet to another, wiping out people as it moves along. Pelley in the 17 years since that prophecy, peter daszak became president of the new yorkbased ecohealth alliance. Daszak were a Nonprofit Research organization that focuses on understanding where the pandemics come from, whats the risk of future pandemics, and, can we get in between this pandemic and the next one and disrupt it and stop it . Pelley in china, ecohealth has worked for 15 years with the Wuhan Institute of virology. Together, theyve catalogued hundreds of bat viruses, research that is critical right now. Daszak the breakthrough drug, remdesivir, that seems to have some impact on covid19, was actually tested against the viruses we discovered under our n. I. H. Research funding. Pelley and so that testing would not have been possible daszak no, it would not. Pelley if it hadnt been for the work that you did with the n. I. H. Grant . Daszak correct. Pelley but his funding from the n. I. H. , the u. S. National institutes of health, was killed two weeks ago by a political Disinformation Campaign targeting chinas Wuhan Institute. Methg remarkndson heres pelley on april 14, Florida Republican congressman matt gaetz claimed chinas Wuhan Institute had, birthed a monster. Gaetz is a vigorous defender of the president. Hes been under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for allegedly threatening a witness against mr. Trump, and he led a protest to delay impeachment testimony. Matt gaetz the n. I. H. Gives this 3. 7 million grant to the Wuhan Institute of virology. They then advertise that they need coronavirus researchers. Following that, coronavirus erupts in wuhan. Pelley there never was a 3. 7 million u. S. Grant to the wuhan lab. But, the falsehood spread like a virus in the white house, and, without verification, in the Briefing Room. Robinson theres also another report that the n. I. H. , under the Obama Administration, in 2015 gave that lab 3. 7 million in a grant. Why would the u. S. Give a grant like that to china . Trump the Obama Administration gave them a grant of 3. 7 million . Ive been hearing about that. And weve instructed that if any grants are going to that area were looking at it, literally, about an hour ago, and also early in the morning. We will end that grant very quickly. Ba ecohealth alliance, for disease prevention it does throughout the world. His work was considered so important that, last year, the grant was reauthorized and increased by the trump administration. Daszak had been spending about 100,000 a year collaborating with the wuhan lab. Daszak i cant just show up in china and say, hi, i want to work on your viruses. I have to do this through the correct channels. So, what we do is we talk to n. I. H. , and they approve the people we can work with in china. And that happened. And our collaboration with wuhan was preapproved by n. I. H. Pelley what is the theory of the work that youve done with the wuhan lab . Daszak well, the idea is that we know that viruses that affect people and pandemics tend to come from wildlife. So, our strategy is to go to the wildlife source, find out where the viruses are, and try and shift behaviors, like hunting and killing wildlife that would lead to the next outbreak. We also get the information in to vaccine and drug developers, so they can design better drugs. Pelley the Wuhan Institute is internationally respected. Two years ago, a team from the u. S. Embassy visited. That team sent a cable to washington, concerned that one lab in the complex had a serious shortage of trained investigators. But the cable, first reported by the washington post, emphasized the Wuhan Institute is critical to future outbreak prediction and prevention. Ecohealths work with wuhan ended one week after mr. Trumps Briefing Room pledge, when the n. I. H. Revoked the grant. They gave you no reason . Daszak they said it was canceled for convenience, and it doesnt fit within the scope of n. I. H. s priorities right now. Pelley and yet it was a high priority when the grant was reissued in 2019 . Daszak yeah. Its definitely puzzling. I mean, this grant received an incredibly high priority score. It was in the top 3 of grants they reviewed. And thats unusual. Maureen miller i was shocked. I was really, really surprised. Pelley Maureen Miller is a ph. D. Epidemiologist at Columbia University who has collaborated with ecohealth and wuhan. Miller it stops the research thats essential to understanding where pandemics, like the one were going through, where they start. Pelley how often are n. I. H. Grants terminated in this way . Miller this is the first one ive ever hed when they terminate an n. I. H. Grant and its not something thats usually taken lightly it is for cause. Theres fraud involved, at some level. There is either manipulation of the data, youre putting your participants in harms way, or your data are fraudulent. Pelley and none of those things have been alleged with ecohealth . Miller absolutely not. None. Pelley the National Institutes of health, in its mission statement, says it exemplifies the highest level of scientific integrity and public accountability. But it wouldnt tell us why the grant was cancelled, or whether anything like it had happened before. The n. I. H. Told us to direct questions about the origin of the virus to the director of National Intelligence. The Chinese Communist party has also blocked the truth. In the earliest days, the doctor in wuhan who discovered the outbreak was silenced by local officials. He later died of cov9. Februar d allow a visit by an International Team of experts, including american scientists. Trump we are coordinating with the Chinese Government, and working closely together on the coronavirus outbreak in china. Pelley initially, President Trump praised china. But in the following weeks, testing in the u. S. Failed to catch up to the need, Vital Equipment was short, bodies filled refrigerated trailers, and science was continuously challenged. Trump then i see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute one minute and, is there a way we can do Something Like that, by injection . Pelley as the u. S. Led the world in illness and death, the white house moved the focus to the Chinese Government. Last sunday, secretary of state mike pompeo attempted to resurrect a debunked theory that the virus was manmade in china. Mike pompeo look, the best experts so far seem to think it was manmade. I have no reason to disbelieve that t this point. Pelley he did have reason. Days before, the director of National Intelligence said there was wide Scientific Consensus the virus was not manmade. Raddatz your office of the d. N. I. Says the consensus, the Scientific Consensus, was not manmade or genetically modified. Pompeo thats right. I agree with that. Pelley the same day pompeo tried to have it both ways, President Trump repeated the theory of a chinese lab accident. Trump i think they made a horrible mistake, and they didnt want to admit it. Pelley the administration has offered no evidence of an accident or genetic engineering. Dr. Elodie ghedin is studying the genome of the virus in her lab at new york university. Elodie ghedin people have been saying thats an engineered virus. And its not. And we know that by looking at the geneti at theode. And the code tells you a lot. Pelley humanengineered viruses have common and obvious genetic components, including the viruss overall molecular structure, called its backbone. Ghedin if a virus had been engineered, it wouldve used the backbones that we know. And theres none of that in that virus. And, lets say it was a brand new backbone. Well, it wouldnt look like what its looking like, because we can find every piece of that virus. We can find these pieces in other, very similar viruses that circulate in the wild. From the genetic information, its clearly not an engineered virus. Pelley Elodie Ghedin and most experts believe the virus, officially called sarscov2, passed from a wild animal intohd many early cases were traced to this market, and a market like it was where the sars virus jumped into a human in 2003. Ghedin a lot of these coronaviruses are found in bats. But we havent found the exact match. We did find a close match in pangolins. Its an anteater. Its a wildlife thats been traded. People, you know, will consume its meat. But they also use in chinese medicine, its scales. Pelley is there a way to know that this virus, sarscov2 emerged from the wild into the human population . Or has that not been proven yet . Daszak well, im a scientist. And what i do is i look at the evidence around a hypothesis. There is a huge amount of evidence that these viruses repeatedly emerge into people from wild animals in rural areas through things like hunting and eating wildlife. There is zero evidence that thin china. Pelley does the Wuhan Institute of virology, to your knowledge, have this virus in its inventory . Daszak no. Pelley why do you say so . Daszak the closest known relative is one thats different enough that it is not sarscov2. So, theres just no evidence that anybody had it in the lab, anywhere in the world, prior to the outbreak. Gaetz i have called on secretary azar to immediately halt this grant to the Wuhan Institute of virology. They have not been honest, and at worst, theyve been negligent to the point of many, many deaths throughout the world. Pelley dishonest and negligent allegations have now ended ecohealths carefully reviewed research designed to stop pandemics. Representative matt gaetz wore a gas mask on the floor of the house to lampoon the crisis. This was back in the beginning of march, weeks before masks were common. R dasz, whose researchers wear masks to shield them from viruses in the wild, says his team is now facing layoffs. Daszak this politicization of science is really damaging. You know, the conspiracy theories out there have essentially closed down communication between scientists in china and scientists in the u. S. We need that communication in an outbreak to learn from them how they control it so we can control it better. Its sad to say, but it will probably cost lives. By sort of narrowmindedly focusing in on ourselves, or on labs, or on certain cultural politics, we miss the real enemy. ticking for more on our coverage of the coronavirus, go to 60minutesovertime. Com. Stahl amazon is the second largest private employer in the country, headed by the richest man on earth. As the coronavirus pandemic has upended American Life as we know it, many of us at home have relied on amazon as a lifeline. Its workers have been called heroes. But, the company has come under fire for the way it treats those workers on the front lines of delivery. In his latest earnings report, a week and a half ago, amazon c. E. O. Jeff bezos committed an additional 4 billion, at least, for covid expenses, including more protections for his employees. He said it would require not just money, but invention, and humility. Figuring out how to make this happen falls in great part on the shoulders of amazons head of operations, dave clark. Amazon is seen as an essentiale. But you have been very slow to install your workers protections, and its hurt your reputation. Youve been seen as a company that puts profits ahead of people. Dave clark i could not disagree more strongly with the premise that were late to this party. I think, quite to the contrary. I think weve been early on the curve to this than most employers, particularly major employers in the u. S. Stahl as head of operations at amazon, dave clark is in charge of over a million people, 1000 buildings, and shipping your packages, all while keeping amazons workforce safe, whether its employees filling orders at the warehouse, or drivers showing up at your front door. But, since march, some of those workers started staging protests, walkouts, and sick outs in new york. Minnesota. They feel the need to hide things from us i am ashamed of my job. Stahl detriot. We are people. We have people who love us. Stahl and chicago. We dont want to get anybody sick. Stahl the protestors want the company to only ship essential items, to limit their potential exposure. They want hazard pay, and better sick leave. So now, dave clark is adding damage control to his portfolio. Clark the site were in today has over 1,500 employees that work here. Stahl we talked with him remotely as he took us on a tour of this warehouse near seattle, showing us where some of the 800 million the company says it has spent on Worker Protections thus far has gone. For example, they have installed thermal cameras in many of their locations, to take employees temperatures. Thats all it took they can take someones temperature that fast . Clark it can. Stahl they then take a mask. Woman go ahead and scan your badge, please. Stahl next, a visit to an onsite testing lab. Amazon is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to develop a way for employees to self administer a coronavirus test, using saliva or a nasal swab. Clark i just open up my swab kit here. Stahl but this is still a work in progress. Oh dear. Clark yeah. The full nose tickle. Stahl right now, the swab is sent offsite for analysis. Clark and then youre all set and done. Stahl results can take as long as five days. Stahl this is the main work floor, where items are sorted and boxed. We saw people in hazmat suits spraying surfaces with a misting disinfectant. And this goes on all day . Clark some sites, this happens once a week, and some sites, this occurs throughout the day, every day. Stahl is once a week enough . Clark again, it depends on the area. Stahl amazon says it is now trying to enforce social distancing by videotaping all its employees and using Artificial Intelligence to study their movements. Clark says the companys extensive camera system is also being used for contact tracing, in order to identify workers who came in contact with a sick colleague, and send them into quarantine. In addition, these portable washing stations have been rolled in. Clark weve deployed these all across all of our sites. The have disinfecting soap, water, paper towels. Stahl amazon also shared this video of something they are working on for the future a robot that emits a certain type of u. V. Light to kill the virus on surfaces. It could be used one day in warehouses, and at whole foods, which is owned by amazon. So heres a question of great interest to an awful lot of us are you worried that you might be transmitting coronavirus through your boxes, through cardboard or plastic . Clark no. We do not see risk there for customers or employees. Stahl you have installed, by what youre saying, over 150 safety measures. And yet, covid cases keep popping up. Now, why do you think that is . Clark we see covid cases popping up at roughly a rate generally just under what the Actual Community infection rates are, because our employees live and are part of those communities. Stahl so youre saying that if these new cases keep popping up, that its not because theyre getting it or spreading it in your facilities . Clark thats correct. Stahl but employees have complained theyre in jeopardy at the warehouses, because social distancing isnt always enforced. Throughout march and april, workers shared through texts and social media images of crowding, on the workfloor and in breakrooms. Everybody is close to each other. Look. We gonna die stahl so, how many positive cases have you discovered at amazon . Clark the actual sort of total number of cases, isnt particularly useful, because its relative to the size of the building and then the overall Community Infection rate. Stahl so you you dont know or youre just not going to tell us how many cases have been discovered . Clark i i dont ha i mean, we know. I dont have the number right on me at this moment because its not a particularly useful number. Stahl but warehouse workers we spoke to would like to know. They say they arent given enough information to assess their own risk. Amazon says it does notify all workers through texts and robocalls every time a specific warehouse has a confirmed case. Robocall today, we learned of seven additional confirmed cases of covid19 at avp1. Stahl but workers told us they dont feel these robocalls are useful, because they dont tell all employees in which department or shift the sick person worked. And, some of these buildings can fit 40 football fields in them robocall we want to let you know we have 11 additional confirmed cases of covid19 at avp1 in the hazelton region. Stahl hazleton, pennsylvnia is where we found the largest cluster of covid19 in the amazon network. Workers there tell us theyve counted well over 70 cases in their warehouse, but theyre petrified to complain for fear of losing their jobs. The whole community of hazleton, a small town with a large workingclass hispanic population, has seen a spike of infections, partly due to the local cargill meatpacking plant that had to close down for two weeks for sanitizing. Hazleton, pennsylvania, your warehouse there seems to be a hot spot a major hot spot. Why not shut down that facility and sanitize . Sanitize that building. Clark we sanitized that building 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We have misting crews in there every day. We have janitorial cleaning every day. Stahl why the reluctance to shut down a plant where there are many cases . I mean, this isnt just hazleton. Clark its not a reluctance. Its just not effective. If i if i believed that shutting down the plant was the answer to keeping our people safe, we would do it. But its not. Stahl the c. D. C. Recommends that when a plant has a case, it should close down that workers area and try to wait 24 hours before disinfecting. Calls for closing amazon facilities for deep cleaning are so, you organized a protest on march 30. What specifically were you asking for at that point . Chris smalls simple demands. All we wanted was the building to be closed down and sanitized. Stahl chris smalls, an assistant manager in staten island, new york, was the first to organize a walkout in the united states. He says workers were getting sick, and management not doing enough. Tell us what happened to you after the protest. Smalls i was terminated two hours later. Stahl you were fired. Smalls yes. Stahl yeah. Smalls i was fired. Stahl are you the only amazon employee who spoke up, protested, whos been fired . Smalls no, im not. Theres been a few, quite a few. Stahl we have encountered some fear among people at amazon because they have seen that protest leaders have been fired just for complaining. Clark well, i can tell you we have a zero tolerance policy for retaliating agt or for any number of issues. Ive been here 21 years, and ive never seen anybody fired for complaining or raising a concern. Stahl dave clark says chris smalls was fired because he violated the companys quarantine policy. But, an internal memo leaked to vice news describes amazons head lawyer, david zapolsky, planning to discredit the protest movement by smearing itrien rown ins document that you were going to go after him. Clark well, i think its unfortunate, because, you know, i think his frustration got the better of him in that comment. Stahl well, the state of new york is looking into why he was fired. And there have been otherpresten s thera littlere. Ain, think if you go thh of those individuals, what youre going to find is some sort of substantive policy violation, or safety violation, that occurred in the process. Stahl but a top amazon engineer quit last week, writing in a blog that the protestors are whistleblowers, and firing them is evidence of a vein of toxicity running through the company culture. And on wednesday, nine senators called on amazon to clarify these terminations. Well, i think theres been some commentary that you are beginning to build a labor movement. And that thats at the heart of this. This is your main goal. Is that fair . Smalls it wasnt my main goal, but now it is. Stahl now it is . Smalls yeah, it is. Stahl a union agitator, you know . Smalls hey, i understand, but its necessary. If theyre not going to take care of their employees, somebody has to. Stahl chris smalls and others are calling on amazon to extend benefits during the pandemic, like more generous sick leave, and extra pay. Many of your workers are putting their health in jeopardy. And a lot of people see them as heroes. Dont they deserve hazard pay . This is hazardous clark well, i see them as heroes too. And we have put in place, th were pay 2 extra an hour, paying double time for overtime. Stahl the 2 raise and more for overtime is set to expire on may 16. Are you going to let it expire or are you going to extend it . Clark theres no decision to be made at this point whether to end may 16 or continue. Stahl he says that every day there are Big Decisions like this he has to make, as head of operations, to keep the packages coming, and address the criticism. Clark if anybody walked into this with a perfect playbook for how to execute continuing to to send essential goods to people in the middle of a pandemic, id love to see it. You know, do i wish we were perfect from day one . Of course. Do i feel like we put people in unnecessary risk . No. ticking cbs money watch sponsored by lincoln financial, helping you create a secure financial future. Donaldson good evening. Reports on retail sales and inflation could cause more pain for the virusinfected economy. President trump says the government will start buying dairy, meat, and produce from farmers. And tesla threatens to leave california over the shutdown. Im bob donaldson, cbs news. [music] [music] especially in times like these, strong Public Schools make a better california for all of us. Strong Public Schools make a better california mi is all togetherperfect. And we switched to geico; saved money on our boat insurance. How could it get any better than this . Dad, i just caught a goldfish theres no goldfish in this lake. Whoa its pure gold. Were gonna be rich. Were gonna be rich it only gets better when you switch and save with geico. ticking whitaker as the coronavirus pandemic sweeps through the country, panic and fear have caused a run on hand sanitizer, toilet paper, and guns. Retailers tell us they have never seen such a surge in firearms sales. One kind of weapon that has been selling out is a buildit yourself firearm known as a ghost gun, because it skirts most federal gun laws. Theres no background check and no serial number, making ghost guns invisible to police and almost impossible to trace when used in a crime. We were surprised that it is all perfectly legal. After a year and a half of reporting, we discovered that ghost guns, once mainly popular with gun enthusiasts, have also become a weapon of choice for criminals, manufactured by gangs and used in mass shootings. Thomas chittum so, this is a. T. F. s firearms reference library. Whitaker we sought out americas top gun cops, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives, the a. T. F. , to find out exactly what a ghost gun is. Thomas chittum, a. T. F. s assistant director of field operations, gave us rare access to its West Virginia weapons repository and told us the latest additions here are ghost whats the difference between these two guns . Chittum well, this is a firearm that was manufactured by a licensed manufacturer. The law requires them to mark them with certain markings, including a serial number. This is not marked. No background check is completed when you purchase it. Its made at home by somebody using commonly available hand tools. Whitaker so, they both do the same thing. Chittum they both shoot. Whitaker as chittum says, usually, if you bought a gun at a store, it would have a traceable serial number and you would need to pass a background check under federal law. A ghost gun can circumvent all of that, because its put together from unfinished, untraceable parts. Its virtually invisible to you and government. Chittum it also makes it challenging to keep it out of the hands of people who are not allowed to possess firearms. Bryan muehlberger up to that day, i never heard the term ghost gun. So, i didnt even know what that was. Whitaker Bryan Muehlberger found out one day last november. There had been a mass shooting at his daughters high school, and 15yearold gracie was murdered. Hlbeer they bring in one of the d head doctors. And, just like you see on the movies, he sits across from you with that real quiet s kind of solemn stare, right at you. And, i just i just remember saying, you know, like, please, no. Dont dont tell me the bad news, please. Whitaker this was the aftermath at Saugus High School in santa clarita, california. A typical thursday morning disrupted, the quad littered with backpacks after students dropped everything and fled for their lives. Thats where gracie was waiting for friends before class. Muehlberger she was about as close as i am to you right now. Shot her right through the backpack and right through her chest, and thankfully he didnt aim at the back of her head. You know, at least we got to see her face one more time. Sheriff Alex Villanueva its a senseless act of violence. Whitaker Los Angeles County sheriff Alex Villanueva arrived at the scene not long after the shots were fired. This kid shows up at school. What happened . Villanueva he shows up at school. He has a backpack. His mom had had packed the lunch for him. In the backpack was also a. 45 auto that was loaded. Whitaker carrying that loaded ghost gun was nathaniel berhow, a high school junior. In addition to gracie, he shot and killed Dominic Blackwell and wounded three other students. He saved the last round for himself. Hes 16 years old . Villanueva uhhuh. Just turned that was his birthday. Whitaker how does a 16year old get his hands on a gun . Hes hes underage. Villanueva underage, but his father was a gun enthusiast and was in possession of a lot of weapons. They were ultimately confiscated because he was detained for whiker she the fatheredha. Illanueva and aledegally at the time. Whitaker sheriff villanueva suspects thats when the father turned to ghost guns, and his son got his hands on one. Six months later, the saugus investigation is still ongoing. Villanueva this is the actual weapon that was used in the saugus shooting. It is a ghost gun. It was assembled, we dont know by who. But we believe it was the father of the suspect, and it came into possession then of the shooter himself. Whitaker ghost gun parts can be used to fabricate a handgun, or even an ar15. The parts are widely available across the country, in stores and online. In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, they have been flying off the shelves. Theyre shipped right to your door. Not much harder than ordering a pizza. We bought a kit online for 575 that has everything you need to make a. 9 millimeter handgun. It came in parts, like ikea furniture but for firearms, and even includes the drill bits you need to put the gun together in the comfort of your own home. Why is it so easy to buy . Because federal gun law only regulates this part, called a frame, or a lower receiver. But until you drill out these holes and file down this bit here, in the eyes of federal law, its just a hunk of metal, or in this case, plastic. Youtube what you do is you get your, your lower here. Whitaker youtube videos will show you stepbystep how to turn that piece of plastic or metal into a gun. Youtube so, if i can do this, anybody can do this. Villanueva so you have, pretty much, its open season, anyone who is a prohibited person that wants to arm themselves now has a very easy way to do it. Whitaker but, if youre a felon, or judged mentally unfit, for example, federal law says youre not supposed to have any kind of firearm. Build a ghost gun . No one knows you have it. These are all ghost guns . Villanueva everything here is a ghost gun. Whitaker ironically, california has some of the strictest state gun laws in the u. S. , and yet its the epicenter of this growing problem. Where on your list of worries do these ghost guns fall . Villanueva well, along with terrorism, active shooter, this is way up there on the list. Whitaker villanueva oversees the largest Sheriffs Office in the country, and he says over the last year, the number of ghost guns turning up in l. A. County investigations has jumped by 50 . Villanueva domestic assault, assault with a deadly weapon, distribution of child pornography, possession a child pornography, armed with a ghost gun. Domestic violence, domestic violence, assault with a deadly weapon, drug deal. Whitaker wow. Its an epidemict country. Icros the without a serial number or paperwork, ghost guns are very difficult for Law Enforcement to trace or track. Which is why Thomas Chittum and the a. T. F. Are struggling to get a handle on the problem. How many of these guns are on the streets . You have no idea . Chittum no, i have no idea. Whitaker and how many crimes are being committed by these guns . You have no idea . Chittum well, not with precision. They still represent a minority of the firearms that are being used in crimes. But we do see that theyre increasing significantly, and rapidly. Whitaker so you have no idea how many guns are out there, and you dont know who has them. Chittum right. Whitaker heres what our reporting found, contacting local and national Law Enforcement over the course of a year and a half at least 38 states and washington, d. C. Have seen criminal cases involving ghost guns. There were at ast four mtingat n whitaker . Violent police shootouts, highprofile busts of gangs making and selling ghost guns on the street, and cases involving terrorism and white supremacists. But, Dimitrios Karras says thats not his clientele at all. Dimitrios karras you can get the whole gun out the door for about 550. Whitaker he is a former marine and one of the first to get into the business of selling ghost gun parts in california ten years ago. Karras between 300,000 and 500,000 individual units have passed through my hands. Whitaker over what period of time . Karras last ten years. Whitaker it sounds like a lot to me. Karras if i was whitaker that thats just from your store . Karras thats just thats just from what what ive been involved in. Theres a lot of companies that are now in this industry, and there are multiple millions of these things that have been created throughout the country at this point. Whitaker so who is buying these kits . Karras its guys in hardhats. Its also the people who like to work with their hands and do this sort of thing anyway. Villanueva id say hogwash to that entire idea. Whitaker hogwash. Villanueva hogwash. Absolute hogwash. The only people that are interested in that are not enthusiasts into, you know, tinkering around with machines. Hitake a hobbyist. Villanueva no. Theyre not hobbyists. These are people that should never have a firearm. And thats how they found a way to get one. Whitaker karras insists the store where he now works, which touts just how invisible their ghost gun parts are. Karras that thing looks cool. I really like it. Whitaker . Has safeguards to prevent ghost gun parts from getting into the wrong hands. Whitaker and what are they . Karras im not going to get too much into it, because it would undermine our ability to use them. Whitaker do you ever worry that someone whos buying one of these kits might have a Mental Illness or, you know, be planning to use an ar15 for something thats horrible, unimaginable . Karras does a car salesman worry that someone might take a car that theyve sold to them and drive it through a crowd of people . Whitaker so you see them as the same . Karras i do. Whitaker karrass home state, california, is phasing in a law to regulate ghost gun parts like regular firearms. Three other states and the district of columbia have passed their own restrictions. But villanueva says, thats not enough. Villanueva we need nationals that covers a total ban on the creation or the selling of these ghost gun kits. Whitaker statebystate is not going to do it . Villanueva it doesnt, because then you can just defeat it by going to another state. Karras hey, whats up dude . Whitaker in todays political climate, new federal gun control measures seem unlikely. Karras youre all set, man. Thanks a lot, dude. Whitaker so that leaves it to the a. T. F. To determine what is and is not a gun. Currently, a. T. F. Says this is not a gun. But the a. T. F. Has changed its thinking on similar issues recently. After the 2017 massacre in las vegas, the a. T. F. And the department of justice banned bump stocks, an accessory that turned semiautomatic weapons into machine guns. Thomas brandon a. T. F. Special agents. Whitaker former acting director of the a. T. F. , Thomas Brandon, helped implement that change, and was ready to recommend to his bosses at the department of justice that they reclassify certain ghost gun kits, like the one we ordered, as firearms, because of how easy they are to put together. You were alarmed at what you were seeing . Brandon yeah. And so i said, well, right now we have a Public Safety concern. Whitaker you thought that the a. T. F. Should reclassify these kits as firearms . Brandon yes, as the head of the agency at the time, i said, im going to do everything i can for Public Safety with my team. If you wanted to buy a kit and make your own gun, its just going to have a serial number on it. Whitaker Thomas Brandon retired last spring before any action was taken. We asked the bureau of alcohol tobacco, firearms and explosives if there was any followup on brandons plans, and were told, a. T. F. Routinely reviews our practices, procedures, and determinations; however, it would be inappropriate to comment on internal discussions. Thomas chittum says the a. T. F. Nobo wants to h . Ing it can. Chittum well, gun laws one of the most divisive topics in america. And a. T. F. Sometimes finds itself in the middle. Whitaker as for saugus, it was the First High School mass shooting with a ghost gun. Bryan muehlberger, a pistol owner himself, says if something isnt done about ghost guns, it wont be the last. Muehlberger im not against owning guns, but i also believe strongly that this is a serious problem thats occurring, that no one knew about. So i just feel like something needs to be done. Its just its become too easy. ticking whitaker mothers wear many hats, even in normal times. More than 70 with kids at home hold down outside jobs while serving as nurturerinchief. In this age of pandemic, mothers have become surrogate School Teachers supervising virtual classrooms, entertainment directors booking facetime play dates, supply sergeants ordering online. They have become dorm directors and office managers, allocating work space in onceempty nests to 20somethings returned from college or newly unemployed. They are term paper proof readers and backyard barbers. And, they reassure discouraged offspring that this, too, shall pass. Moms wear more hats than we can describe. And on this mothers day in particular, our hats are off to them. Im bill whitaker. Well be back next week, with another edition of 60 minutes. ticking ticking captioning funded by cbs and ford. We go further, so you can. Captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org