Prevention to help us have a conversation about suicide. Why do people kill themselves . People who kill themselves are in pain. They are in intolerable pain of one kind or another. In the united states, we have the luxury that is primarily emotional pain. In other countries it may be economic, and maybe physical pain because the Health System has collapsed. It may have to do with shame. In the united states, we have those forms of pain. We have families that run out of money and call in and say i have the choice of being dead or homeless. People learn physical pain and decide in their lives and we have children who are bullied and who die of shame. Primarily, it is emotional pain and that is what we have come to have to grapple with. We dont know much about emotional pain, so we have trouble dealing with it. We dont recognize it. So, when you say we have difficulty dealing with it, at the same time every Suicide Prevention organization at its core has a list of signs that people need to Pay Attention to for themselves and loved ones and friends that might lead to suicide. What are some of those indications that people ought to Pay Attention to for themselves and also around the people that they know . What people ought to Pay Attention to is that there are four kinds of people who are suicidal. The first kind of person says i am thinking of killing myself. They come right out and say it. Frequently, people dont Pay Attention to them and they say you wouldnt do that or dont do that, lets go out. They dismiss it. The second kind of person gets that suicide is a very big decision and dont feel capable of making that decision. They leave it up to the universe. They will throw out a hint, no one will miss me if im dead. When im dead, give my animals away, when i do this im going to be gone soon. All sorts of hints that they may be dead soon. The third person does the same thing. They get it, they want the universe to tell them whether or not to die, but they dont say anything. They acted out. So the third person may change how they dress. They may change how they eat and sleep, too much or too little, they may start giving away their belongings or their pets. The third person, again, have something they want to show. The fourth person takes risks. They know how they want to die, they want the universe to tell them when so they drive dangerously, they use substances dangerously and they have unprotected sex, they get involved in peer violence and the friends say they can see them spiraling down. One of every five suicides is a person who has hinted or who has otherwise indicated it without saying anything. As a culture, we are very squeamish about asking a person if they are thinking of suicide. Why do you think that is . Why are we reticent to just come out and asked that question . I think it is because we have a myth that, if you ask a person, are they suicidal, it will put the idea into their head. They will die and it will be your fault. In fact, there are studies from Columbia University and in texas as well that show it is impossible to put that idea in the somebodies head. Either it is they are, or it is not. The people who are in pain, you can ask them, are you feeing suicidal . It will be a relief and a gift for them that you have recognized this shameful secret that they have had and that you are prepared to help them out. You know what to do to help them out. Like a wonderful perk were going to take a quick break and come back in just a moment to continue this vital and important, although difficult conversation about suicide. Please join us back here on mosaic in just one moment. Good morning and welcome back to mosaic. Thank you for returning to us. We have eve meyer, the executive director of Suicide Prevention. We were talking about the way peoples can talk with a loved one who they think may be contemplating suicide and say to them, are you thinking of killing yourself or committing suicide. What do you say to people who will say well, if somebody is really determined to end their own life, there really isnt anything that you can do to convince them otherwise . What we say to people is that almost everyone is ambivalent. That ranges on a spectrum from 99 of the person wanting to do it and one does not to half andhalf to even less than that. What you are trying to do is come for the part of the person that things that there might be some positive reason to live. That is the whole thing that Suicide Prevention is about. Somewhere deep down in almost everyone there is a reason to live. You just have to find it. The way that you find it is, curiously enough, asked the question, how do you plan to kill yourself. Why is that an important question to ask . You want to make the person safe. If you go into why are you killing yourself, they could die in front of you. The other reason you want to make them safe is that one of the greatest danger factors is a person who has easy access to a way to kill themselves. If you can make the persons environment safer, you can make the part of them that wants to live grow more easily. It seems that part of what i think youre saying is its very important to be curious. In that way and be on and frayed and engage that person and then also in some ways see yourself as someone who can cultivate their sense of what it means to be alive and to enjoy life, if i can use that term even though this is someone considering suicide. Is that part of what humanly we need to Pay Attention to . That is exactly what we need to Pay Attention to peer inside of everyone there is a dream. If you can find the dream, find the belief, find the one thing that makes them stronger than their own bodies, you can pull them through as long as you can make their surroundings safe. So the first thing you do is to try to find a way to get their surroundings safe and after that you look for the dream. You look for the diamond in the landfill, i call it. You try to find what it is that you can ignite that will help them get through just this. Of time. People are suicidal in a very time limited matter what are some of the services that san franciscos Suicide Prevention provides to help people to cultivate that part of the person that has the dream and also makes their environment safe for them . San francisco Suicide Prevention has 100 volunteers who are community people. They may have been through crisis themselves. They talk on the telephone with anyone who calls in about the crisis. I use the word talk. Actually they listen. They have been taught to listen. They let you talk. It is probably the most talking you have ever been able to do. The person that finds the diamond in the landfill is actually you. We now do this on computer. We do it by online chat. We are about to start text. We have noticed that people who are younger dont use phones, so we did that so that we could reach a broader spectrum of people and we do it in spanish and we have translators for about 110 languages because we know that when you get emotionally upset, the words for how you feel are in your first language. Yes, of course. You mentioned your volunteers are trained to listen. It seems to me as well that if somebody is considering suicide that the isolation can be so deep that it is important to hear a voice on the other end. It seems to me that curiosity and engagement and talking is also important for the person on the other end of the line to know that that they are just being listened to, that they are heard and one thing we know is that you have the engagement with the other person talking. Yes. You have a person engaged in talking. They are also asking questions. Up to now, whenever the person has said i am in pain, we are culturally programmed to back away from that pain. Here is somebody who when you say i am in pain comes forward and says, describe it to me. When does it happen . How does it feel . What makes it better . By the end of the phone call, or the text, you come up with a safety plan where you pick four things that you know as a person who is in pain might make you feel better and you write them down. You keep them with you at all times. When the pain hit you again, you start through them. Get a cup of coffee. Watch a Certain Television show, call a relative that you like. Find an animal. Find an animal. I am a strong believer in animals. Find an animal and sit and talk to the animal. If none of those work, you call the hotline again. Somebody will be there. Thank you so much. We are going to take a quick break and return back here in just a moment. Welcome back to mosaic. I am honored to be your host this morning. We are having a vital conversation about suicide. The Northern California in particular and many urban areas are engaged in a vital conversation about choosing when one ends their own life. That is the ability to choose when ones life ends. That has spurred organizations that provide advocacy, education and assistance. Im wondering, how do you think about that particular issue and where we are and what seems to be a kind of stimulation to develop different kinds of vocabulary and concepts to understand choosing to end ones own life and how one goes about doing it. What do you think about that conversation . As a profession, what we think about it is that if you are not allowed to talk about suicide when you are in physical pain or when you see a terminal illness about to end your life, then, you are second class person to the one who is in emotional pain. That should not happen. You have just as much of a right to talk about your pain and your thoughts about your life. In states where they have legalized terminal illness suicide, there have been very few of those suicides. The freedom to think about it has meant more than the actual death itself. Interesting. The way that knowing you can do it takes away your fear of what will happen and gives you control over your life. Does a sense of control create its own prevention . It appears to. It appears to. People who know that they can legally and their lives if they are terminally ill usually do not do it. And this conversation really easily impinges on issues of faith, religion and suicide. Can you talk about that history and interaction . People always had an interesting relationship with the Faith Community because at one point so many people were dying that the Faith Community in almost every form, jewish and christian declared it a sin and would not bury people with their families. They had shame for the family or the person. Then they developed a compromise about the 14th century which said that if you died under the influence of an irresistible force, you could be buried with your family. What was the force . It was Mental Illness. So Mental Illness and suicide became welded to one another even in situations where they are not in fact connected. The Mental Illness and mental Health System is forced to deal with people who are suicidal, even though they may not be suicidal because they are mentally ill. It is a curious way that we say if you are suicidal, you must be mentally ill. That does not necessarily follow because you can be in some sort of crisis because of something that has happened to you in your life. So, we have worked out this kind of relationship, but we have not worked out how we are going to comfort people, how we will comfort families and, because we need that shame, people do not get to talk nearly as much as they need to to other people. That is why if somebody goes through a crisis, they are extremely important, they will save another person. We are going to take a quick break and return in just a moment here on mosaic. Welcome back to mosaic. I am honored to be your host today. Thank you for returning to this conversation on suicide. Eve, in todays world, what are some of the demographic populations that we need to Pay Attention to when it comes to understanding suicide more deeply . A population that we are worried about right now is older men, particularly veterans. And, young men in the military. We are finding high suicide rates, higher than expected and having to direct programs towards them and the theory that is behind the increased rate is that they have access to a Lethal Weapon at all times. It is on their bodies. Do most returning veterans, or aging veterans actually still own firearms . Is that what you are saying . They have access to them in some fashion . They either owned them because they have taken them with them after they have been in combat or they are so comfortable that they have kept them around. When a crisis happens, the access to the means of ending your life is something that is crucial. It is the difference between it happening and not happening. When somebody has a gun around, it is a dangerous situation. Okay. In a country like ours, we have a volunteer military. Most of the population doesnt volunteer for the military. We know that people around us have gone to military and return. Earlier you were saying how important it is for someone to find the dream in that person for life. Im wondering, do you have some particular pointers for somebody who knows somebody who is been in the military and may not actually relate to that choice but nonetheless cares for that person and loves them but really wants to know what they can do in that particular situation. Is there a particular way to approach a veteran . I dont think you would approach them any differently from anyone else. You would approach them and say, you are hurting. I care, i just want to be with you and make sure you are safe. If you have something around, i will keep it for you until the crisis is over. In other words, you dont have to have been in the military to approach somebody who has been in the military to talk about suicide . No. Pain is pain. Once you have had it in your life, you can help someone else. Each of us can save the life of another person. We have just one minute left. You have any parting thoughts that you would like to let us know about as we complete this conversation . I think my parting thought is that all of us really can care for each other much more than we have and i think we will now. I am seeing a wonderful time of people really opening themselves up to other people and wanting to save them and succeeding. Eve, thank you so much for joining us on mosaic. We put a comment in this conversation. If you know someone or you yourself are contemplating suicide, please pick up the phone and call Suicide Prevention in your area. Please, find a dream. Thank you so much for being with us. Have a wonderful day. Come experience the grand opening of floor and decors newest location in the east bay area our expansive store is fully equipped with safe distancing guides, so you can browse our wide aisles and be amazed with our even wider selection. Or easily order online, and pick up all the products you need for your flooring project curbside so come discover the perfect floor at the perfect price in whatever way is perfect for you. Floor and decor, now open in san leandro for safe instore shopping and curbside pickup. Also open in milpitas and burlingame. Captioning made possible by johnson johnson, committed to improving health for everyone, everywhere. [trumpet] pauley good morning. Im jane pauley. And this is sunday morning. Weve been hearing a lot about the aftermath of the race between president elect biden and president donald trump. This morning well talk about that and a lot mo