Speak about things in life that i couldnt speak about before. I just didnt know how. I couldnt find the words. But the playwright allowed me to express something. Maybe in the film, its a different animal. On stage, i go backwards and forwards in age and thats a difficult challenge, but the essence of the queen may be harder on film. Youve got to have that kind of working. Rose Chiwetel Ejofor, al pacino and Helen Earhart helen. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose Chiwetel Ejofor is here, his role in is it years a slave earned him Academy Award in 20134 for best actor and is now playing in z for zachariah. He is the trailer for the film. I aint seen one for over a year. A dead cobra. As long as we stay here, well be protected. screaming the swear to contaminated erring got to be an explanation. This is crazy this is still here. I cant drive this. You cant get it to work. Well get it to wor work manually. It works this is between us. Its okay. barking my name is caleb. screaming no, no, no. No, its all right. It could be anybody. We have faith. Whats your plan . If you need to figure it out, figure it out. I found out a lot of stuff about you. I have been on my own. You take the wager . Rose welcome. Good to see you again. And you. Good to see you. Rose tell me who john lumas is. John lumas is a scientist and works in one of the bits in the trailer there. You see him in this hazmat suit. This suit is one of the things hes been working on as a prototype. Hes been underground since last year ever since the Nuclear Event that killed everybody. He survived rose the apocalypse. Yes. He survived down there, hes come up, maybe out of food. He has a little wagon and hes moving around from place to place and comes across this valley that has been untouched, that everything has survived in. Its fertile, its luscious and he cant believe it, and the reason why its been untouched is because of its geographical components and just wind patterns have allowed it to be sort of free of the nuclear fallout. There, he meets ann burton, the only survivor, and the two of them cant believe theyre the only two people left. Hes a very heady guy, so ling with his head, he decides hes not going to rush into a relationship with her, that hes going to try to establish this kind of friendship. The last thing he wants to do in a sense is get into a bad relationship with the last woman on earth. Rose yeah, exactly. And how else has the apocalypse changed him . I think hes been you know, there is this element of p. T. S. D. There are certainly issues that he had before, but this sort of intense loneliness, this intense the things that hes seen and perhaps done and that he carries with him is the kind of strong, inner life that we were working with. I think all three of us and the director were working for the strong areas of inner life so when these sort of interpersonal relationships started to sort of dramatically escalate, all of these elements of character start to reveal themselves. Rose after all the success of 12 years a slave, did you sit back and say, ive got to be very careful about what i do now . Or did you simply say, ill look for good projects, and nothing had changed other than you were better known globally . I think thats what happened, that i was constantly in the search for interesting projects, you know, things i thought there was a lot to do with and a lot to bring. Rose and did you see exponentially more . Well, yes and no. There were more projects around, but, you know, the specific rose not necessarily that many more good projects. Well, the specific requirements i have, you know, which kind of are a sort of complex, you know, theyre sort of hard to explain. Rose the requirements you have. Yeah. Rose why are they hard to explain . Well, because theyre slightly, in a sense, abstract. Its a feeling or a term or something that might appeal to something that might appeal to me that seems like a strange choice, perhaps. Rose or from an agents standpoint. Yeah. Rose why do you want to do this. Any combination of those. Rose and you cant necessarily explain it because its a feeling. Yeah, its what youre pulled towards. Its what you feel you have something to say in that youre intrigued by, that you feel is a color or a tone, that you personally havent explored and, in the end, thats something that i think is very important. Rose i would think that easy in is it years a slave, easy that you could see and feel that instantly, something you might want to do. What was it here . Well, it was a number of things. First of all, i had always been interested in twohanded and threehanded, you know, just in cinema. Theyre quite rare, but theyre very interesting. Its always been something thats intrigued me to separate Everything Else away and see thousand interpersonal, dramatic relationships with all the same people can create tall tensions and dramatic tensions in much bigger pieces just because to have the type of people they are. And there is no sort of bad guy or incredibly good guy. Theyre all in between, normal people. Rose qualities like jealousy and the like are as prevalent with three as it is with, you know, 6 million. Well, exactly, yeah, but actually with two. And that was the real distinction for me and something i found really important and interesting in this film, that the distinction between two people and three is massive, you know, because with two people, Everything Else falls apart, Everything Else falls away, not apart. Its sort of like they have differences in the terms of their faith, for example. Lumas is atheist, and ann is not. But it becomes irrelevant. Its something that they can have a difference of opinion on but it has no political weight in their relationship. Rose but does he see her from the beginning as someone he falls in love with, or does he see her as someone hes obligated to have a relationship with because of the commitment to the rest of yeah, i mean, he sees, obviously, shes a beautiful girl and shes here, you know, but i think that he is its not possible for him to take away in the scenes of fear, of moving into a relationship sort of headlong and frontfooted, you know, that can have serious implications and problems. If it goes wrong. I think he thinks her attractiveness is irrelevant and he needs to find a way of really communicating and understanding her in the capacity of a friend before taking that into any kind of romance and to any kind of other realm. Rose is this fill am kind of modernday biblical tale . Well, its kind of the adam and eve but for real, you could look at it like that. Its somebody whos looking at what the underlying complications are in this construct, this eden in which they are, the beautiful countryside in new zealand is where we shot it, and you are trying to organize a relationship that has all of that external pressure. If you dont get it right, it has serious ramifications. Rose every decision has weight. Yes, every thought process. Every word out of your mouth has to be weighed because you dont want to send the wrong signals and get off into the wrong kind of area. So there are all of these choices, and theyre pressured, and shes much younger, and he is a scientist, and hes introducing technological things back into the universe and their kind of construct and, so, theres something paternalistic as well about their relationship and, for all those reasons, he is taking it very easy and taking it very slow, all of which turns out to be a terrible idea because hes not the last man on earth. Rose as we saw in the trailer. Hes the secondtolast man on earth. When caleb arrives, who is frontfooted, the first of life, an alpha man, it completely destroyed all of these bestlaid plans lumas has been after. Rose which makes an interesting film. Absolutely, because then it becomes a question of jealousies and, you know, how do you silently fight this kind of situation . You do it through manipulation, you know. If you k you do it through trying to outmaneuver the other guy. You do it through every sort of means that you have at your disposal, you know. He finds himself equally a minority, you know, which is, of course, irrelevant is there is just the two of them. But racially and in terms of religion, hes suddenly hes minorityized, which then creates its own system of subconsciousness. Rose how does it change by the end of the film . Through the film, the distinction between who lumas believes he is and who he actually is gets increasingly wider as hes having to justify all these decisions and actions and behaviors that lead him down a path that, if you were to talk to him at the beginning of the film or even at the beginning of the event at a Nuclear Event, where he ends up in this film is not a place you would think is conceivable for him. Hes a moral human being, an ethical man, a scientist, a man of reason, but within a certain sequence of circumstances, hes forcing himself to justify more and more sort of unethical, immoral acts. Rose in preparing for this kind of film in which these are fictional characters, how do you prepare . Is it all in the text . Or do you look for Something Else to hang this kind of her forms on . It was, i suppose rose a model of someone you knew . Its an internal thing. I mean, there is obviously the sort of wider ideas you can look at. You can look at the technology we did a lot of that myself and the director, the technology of looking at the suits, what they may have been designing, what that might have meant, but because its because of interpersonal relationshippings and accessing whatever intelligence you have as a person and trying to play with other actors, you are just relying on your own personal structures, belief systems, ethics. Rose a screen scene where they discovered there is another living person. shouting okay who are you . Are there any others . gunshot who are you . Are there any others . No others. Its just me. Will you get out of the water, please . The water comes from outside the valley. You need to get out of the water, please. No rose where are your stage ambitions now . Well, im on stage in Repertory Theater for the National Theater doing every man, so i have a brief break while another show goes into that theater, then i come back and finish my show. So im almost at the end of it and its been an extraordinary time, a brilliant summer, doing every man, a 15th century morality play directed by the new artistic director of the National Theater, so its been an incredible process and for me an intentional show. Rose how are you growing as an actor other than simply youre growing as a human being . Well, i mean, i feel like it happens concurrently, but i definitely feel like, say doing a play like every man, and trying to get into the moral complexity of our time, this time, and what morality plays now given our Environmental Concerns and ourself centeredness of mind as well is something that i feel that, by the end of this time, was rehearsing, i had a very strong sense it has made me in some ways a better person, and thats a great gift. Rose the influence of humanity of you. Of me. Its not something i look for plays to do, but its something that happened in this complex thats deeply gratifying. I think when doing theater and films, making films like z for zachariah and every man, the detail in which you need to look at the pieces to flush out the nuances of it i think makes me a better actor and thats always going to be a goal to keep on improving my work to a point im satisfied with. Rose whos had the most influence on you as a director . In theater, i would say i had the extraordinary opportunity to work with michael a few times, and we did a fellow in 2007 or 2008. Ive always had a remarkable time working with him because he is he just has a great for me, a great way of speaking to actors and of guiding a piece. Do you know what that is or just what happens . I think it starts with a great overview of the piece and, you know, a very watchful eye, and hes able to and the skill is to be able to nudge a production, nudge a performance very gently along a certain way, which opens up, reactive for the aweddence, a whole room and i think hes somebody who understands what an audience is looking for, from the experience. Rose how long did you rehearse for every man . Every man, for me, was just over five weeks. The company was rehearsing longer. I was making a film in los angeles when i got into it. Rose what film . Secrets. Rose when does that come out . November. Rose whats the satisfaction of acting for you . I think there is something about it, for me, as around form and this is what i was always trying to get to ever since i first performed, it was always a form of selfexpression for me but a form of selfexpression that had distinct advantages. One was i was never naked. I could express myself artistically, i could express thoughts that maybe i had or had some variant of, but never having to do it as myself was a great advantage. I think in other art forms, if youre painting, singing, if youre dancing even, you know, youre so much more exposed. Musicians are so exposed, poets are exposed, writers, obviously, but acting has that special thing, you know, that you can kind of be concealed. Rose if you hadnt found acting, what would it have been . I would imagine it would have been writing. I had a very deep connection to literature when i was growing up, and it is something i think, in some form, i have moved into some part of that. The thing about the reading plays is i decided, having been reading plays, that i wanted to see what the structure and the form of how theyre a meant to be shown, you know, so i went down to the theater at my school to see what was going on and then, of course, got the bug. Rose ive often said, if you had acting lessons ive thought this, not necessarily said it instruction, the more you understand the construct of a play, the more you understand what goes into it in terms of, i think, the more you appreciate it, like most things. The more you know about art, the more you appreciate the artist, for me. Doesnt mean you cant and shouldnt enjoy it on a level of instant spontaneity, just simply how does it affect me, but the more and you can find a whole lot from simply connecting with how it affects your life or finding parallels between whatever the artist is saying, whether its a character or whoever it might be. But, at the same time, the more you know about what goes into and how difficult it is to make it good, the more you appreciate it. I think thats very true. I went to see, recently, a play at the r. F. C. For a fellow, and having such an intimate knowledge of the play, wordforword knowledge, its always great for me to see that play and to see what choices people are making, to see what theyre doing, how theyre doing it, how it affects the rest of the play, how it affects the audience, you know, where theyve lifted the humor, where theyve lost id, and thats always the kind of fascinating, engaging thing to do, and part of it is wholly because im so within it, and i know it so well. Rose for me, you and i both talk about being in london and seeing Benedict Cumberbatch in hamlet, but the number of years i have been on this program, 25 years, weve had a number of actors who have been hamlet and its been a defining experience for them, all the way back to olivier, to take those different performances, and you understand a bit about the craft of acting and play writing if you can take a play and see it done in different ways, all true to the text, but, at the same time, understanding the creative imagination that goes into it. Well, especially with hamlet. Rose with most of all of hamlet. I think most of all, yeah. It is a very difficult one. That is so well known at this point, that its sort of hard to kind of and also, you know, its surprising. I saw hamlet once, just outdoor hamlet, a very amateur production in oxford. In fact, the production got rained off and couldnt do the last fight scenes because it was too rainy and slippery and dangerous. But i remember about halfway through for the first time, i caught the emotional wind of hamlet, and it really shocked me. I have been so familiar with it for so many years. Rose how many times have you done it . Ive never done it. Rose never once . Not once. Rose not even i have been asked to do it, you know, on different occasions. Rose and why have you said no . Because i dont know that i have ever fully understood hamlet and ophelia, is my admission. Rose are you serious . Yeah, and because of that, ive never found myself totally capable of being inside the play. Rose what is it you dont understand . Their dynamic, their relationship. Rose why dont you think you could enter hamlet . Its hard for me to understand their dynamics. You know, her suicide, their relationship, you know, how he treats her and what matters ultimately about her. You know, ive read extensively and i still dont quite, so i havent ever been able to sit within it the way i can sit within other rose obviously, there have been people here who really dont do shakespeare who are good actors. Bill nye has no interest in shakespeare. Yeah. Rose but i cant imagine you wont do hamlet. Maybe ill figure that out. Rose you can do this if you had to or be fulfilled in another way. But youre so good i would love to find a way to have completely connecting with him. I have picked it up many times and read it through and been really happy and feeling like im going wit and then reaching a certain point and thinking, what is this . You know. Rose lets take the film role in z for zachariah. Sure. Rose did you have to understand him before you would accept the role . Did you have to see and understand the relationship he had . Yeah. I think you have to understand the kind of rose or could imagine yourself there . And understanding psychologically all the basic points. There is a lot of work to do once that happens and there is a lot of dynamics and nuances and performances, you know, to flush out and understand, but if all the basic dynamics are in place, if i get it, then i can get on the train, at least. Rose whats the worst career decision youve ever made . Uh. Um. The worst career decision i ever made. Rose either by omission or commission . Well, i dont know. I suppose in the end there are a number of different pathways, you know, that one could take. Rose and you cant tell if you took this you might not have seen this, but by taking this, you saw this. Yeah, and the clearest indication for me which wasnt a bad decision, its just it didnt seem like a decision that could likely have a good end, and that was after i did amistad when i was young, lived in los angeles the first time, and i decided not to stay in hollywood and decided to go back to london and continue the theater career, which is because at that point i assumed that i would be doing theater rose you didnt think about a film career . Yeah, i didnt envisage having a film career. So later on it struck me that was possibly a mistake and maybe i should have, at that point, started to invest more into trying to do films and trying to do films in los angeles. But, you know, i dont know. I think my decision to go back to london also influenced my and go back into the theater is the reason i met orange and stephen and so theres no part of it where you kind of there are so many different little avenues one could take but i could drive myself mad, i think. Rose good to have you. My pleasure. Rose z for zachariah premieres friday august 28 in theaters and v. O. D. Thank you again. Pleasure. Thank you. Rose well be right back. Stay with us. Rose al pacino is here. He is an oscar, tony and emmyaward winning actor. Lee strasburg, long time director of the actor studio, says some actors play characters. Al pacino becomes them. Heres a look at just some of his work. You stole my work. Rose i needed it. I love you. Im going back to school. You are in trouble. I dont care. I dont care who gets it, including myself. If i have to go to outside agencies, where am i going to go i know it was you, fredo. You broke my heart. You broke my heart. Get over there, will ya he wants to kill me so bad, he can taste it shouting okay. You want to play . Ill play. [ gunfire ] you want to learn the first rule, you would know if you ever spent a day in your life, you never open your mouth till you know what the shot is. There was a time i could see, and i have seen boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off but there is nothing like the sight of an amputated spirit. There is no prosthetic for that. If its between you and some poor bastard whose wife youre going to turn into a widow, brother, you are going down. This guy is the top scientist in the number three Tobacco Company in america. Hes a corporate officer. You never get whistleblowers in fortune 500 companies. This guy is the ultimate insider. Hes got something to say, i want it on 60 minutes. Rose what do you think about this career in acting that youve had . It baffles me. You know, you spend your life just moving on, you know. Its one of the perks but also one of the issues you have when youre with a group of people and youre with them and youre in a company and you know you all sort of feel that way. Actors are transient, you know. Rose somebody once said actors are gypsies. They are. They have that in their spirit. So when i look at things ive done before, there is, mercifully, a distance you have and you look at it and say, thats all part of, if you want to call it development, or you want to call it i remember kaz, m, they had a special evening for kazam, and he got up on the stage and said, wow, how am i still Walking Around they had one for me, actually, and i went up there and i thought, there is no rehab in this. Where is the time i was in rehab . I never was in rehab, you know. Rose but the question posed in john lennons letter, stay true to yourself. Youve stayed true to yourself, for the most part, havent you . Well, i dont know. I guess to. Here and there i veered off. I dont know make those kind of i dont think of myself as that at all, that im being true to myself. I can feel when im not. I can feel when ive gone off the track. Rose in your life or in the performance . More performance than personal life. Personal life is a little too random for me and how i mean, im playing characters whove lived these lives all over the world and stuff and gone through, you know, the accessibility of things in our lives and our world, you know, that you travel. Rose a bit like people who say you shouldnt read tolstoy till youre 30, you wont fully understand it. They say you shouldnt do hamlet until youre at least 40, except youve got to do hamlet earlier because you wont do it if you wait till 40. You will learn too much, you will know its impossible. So the best thing is to get in there i love when the young actors do it. I didnt do it. I never felt i was right for hamlet. I loved the play. Its probably my favorite play of all shakespeare. Rose you never did it. I never did it. I did scenes from it. I just didnt feel i could exist in that play, in a way. I thought, like other people have that, when i get older, ill understand it more. Theres a question of understanding it as an audience and understanding it as an artist, and thats the separation for me. Rose was it kazam that wanted you to do a reading of hamlet. That was strasburg. Rose what was it . I was afraid to do anything. I was very young. I got to the Actors Studio at a very young age. I sat around, watched them, and then i would go home. Throughout my life, i would learn, i committed to memory certain monologues that i liked. Rose you were almost a teenager then. Early 20s. I thought, gee, ive got these monologues in me, these great eugene oneil monologues, and i had the wonderful robe from what a slave am i, shakespeare and hamlet, and i had them committed to mind. I went up for the first time, and finally i got up the nerve to sign up and Lee Strasburg looks at the paper and say i loved that he was able to pronounce my name. I grew up with that in school. He said, al pacino . Yes . Whats this, hamlet and the iseman cometh . Okay. Lets see them. He said, you know, we take all kinds in here. laughter so i got up there and i did a ferocious rogue peasant, and then i went wild with the eugene oneil, and i was really giving it the old gungho, stepping on the gas, really wasnt that good. And it was over and he was looking at me and the audience got kind of teary about it because i had a lot of commitment and energy and i was young. He said, listen, al, heres what i would like you to do immediately, this was the genius of him he said i want you to do hamlet as hickey from the ice man cometh and hickey as hamlet. I immediately went into it, and he was very happy about that. I didnt pause and say, what do you mean . I just switched it. Rose so you had the character of hamlet in the text of hickey . Yes. And then the text of hamlet in hickey. I learned more that day than i have my entire life. laughter rose how have you managed to be a star to this day, and not playing character roles as much as youre playing stars . Youre at the center of these two films. Well, again, im going by the rose is it box office. What im feeling. Rose you tell me. I think its always been you know, some movies ive made that arent character driven, different characters i play, i dont know, i find its always a mystery to me, it really is. A mystery that im actually here talking to you, and that im still doing this thing. But i started early, too, as an actor, and i was seen in new york in a play called the indian wants the bronx, in which i got a movie award for that that year, and it was faye dunne dunnaway who saw me in this play and i made movies with the producer. But that play, there was something in that play, and john kasal was in it, too. And i had been acting maybe ten years before that. So i was quite young, my mid 20s, and it just started to sail along. I did feel, when i talked about it, tha that i went from being n explorer in my work in a way and trying to learn more about the classics and myself in connection with doing things. I got a lot of joy out of that. I was in a place called the actors gallery, which nobody could even find in those days. But, as i said, the continuing, in the village and all, and then to finally be lauded, in a way, and suddenly, everything up to the stakes. And the start thing came in and the name above the title came in, and somehow i was sort of trying to preserve something i thought i had understood earlier on because i then found myself in another world, which i liked. I thought it was a good thing. I still think it was a good thing. It was a lucky thing. Things happen that way sometimes. But maybe something happened that was somewhat new. A new kind of person that wasnt comparable to other things people were seeing, came out of the 60s, came out of this time in america where people like me were, you know, being given an opportunity, whatever. Owned. It was a combination of i dont know. It was a combination of things. I did a scene one time. Charlie, i saw him on his death bed night and i sawed to him, charlie, remember the time when they were doing this big thing, and i was one of the scenes in the school, and every teacher brought their student in that they wanted to show their work, how they were doing, and i went in to this thing, and i did this scene. I said and remember when i came to see you . Charlie just grabbed me and said, good stuff, al, good stuff. And then the teacher got up and went crazy against me, thought it was the worst, said, who do you think you are, luther adler . You come up and do this and i was sitting there thinking, what is this about . And i said to charlie in the hospital, remember that time . Why was he doing that . Why did he get so upset . He said, he saw a new time, a new era. And i thought that that, in some way i think its very dramatic to hear that, but charlie said, i dont know that its true, but i do know that it was interesting because that was happening. You know, it happens today, too. Something new comes along, and its either, you know, were getting used to it. In the old days, actors had to pronounce things a certain way and be a certain height so they would be seen in the audience. So i dont mean to compare myself with people like edmond team, but i was always reading books about actors, and edmond king came at a time where, you know, he came from a whole other climate, a whole other world, and when he went on the stage, it was new, and i think there was something about the roles i played, in the situation and the times we were in that connected, and i got lucky, really. And then its been this thing all my life. So i have to say, i know youve heard it a lot, everybody says it but its true, its luck and timing. I remember saying once to someone who said to me, al, because we were all together, actors, im no better than anybody else in that way, because ive seen people do such great stuff i wish i could do, but, at the same time, you know, this guys saying, al, you know, youre doing so well a few years into it, right but says, what is it . Why you . I mean, why not me . Ive always wanted this. I want this stuff that you have. I says, yeah, i said, you wanted it. I think i had to have it. Rose oh, wow, had to have it. Had to have it. In a way, thats an interesting distinction. One doesnt know. Im just mouthing now because i dont know. I think there was just a period rose that you had to have it. I had to have it. And believe it or not, i knew at some point this was my time. I never thought it would turn into this, naturally, but i knew it was my time that i would be seen in some way, that enough had happened and that this part in the israel harvest play i went to boston, did two or three plays, repertory, and i went to do a part in a play, there was no way. They all wanted me, said you will be great for this, and i thought, maybe i will be. And i got up and did it and it was not good at all. As a matter of fact, i remember that i was in the dressing room and somebody came down and i heard it on the speaker, my entrance was coming up, and this guy in the dressing room was really excited of this review he was reading of the play we were doing. And i said, whats that . He tried to cover it. I thought, why is he covering it . I said, can i see that, john . He said, yeah, okay, here. He pushed it to me and i looked at it, and i saw this great review, and it was about this person, that person, how great with the one exception laughter al pacino in the role of so and so was terrible as i was reading it, my cue came and i had to act in the play he was criticizing me in. But i laughed. A certain period of time, the ability to look at Something Like that and laugh helped me a bit. It hurt. But another part that i didnt want to do, i was okay in. So its always the question of what do we do . I mean, you know, youre walking along the street and you see a certain tree, you either take the picture, or you get the canvass out and paint it. You never know when its going to happen, you read a script. And with actors, if you dont try it, youre not going to know. And what happens is, if you start to censor yourself, i think when you start to censor yourself, it gets a little because we dont know. Rose thank you for coming. Oh, my pleasure. Great talking to you, charlie. Rose thank you. Rose helen mirren is here. She is an Academy Award winning actor. In 2003 she became a dame of the british empire. She currently stars on broadway, guess who, about the queen the audience. The Associated Press calls ate touching pertrade of power and majesty. You never thought you would be Prime Minister, did you . Oh, goodness no, no theres a photograph of me taken outside downing street age 8, which people interpreted as such, but, no, there was any scheme or plan laughter children in mill drij where i grew up never had boots or shoes for their feet, they wore clubs because clubs lasted longer. As children we never had dreams or hopes beyond survival. I nearly died of typhoid eight days, and now im here drinking tea with the queen of england mrs. Wilson must be very proud. Oh, no, shes furious no, she much liked our wives in oxford as a young wife. Doesnt care for the limelight of westminster life, certainly doesnt care for our home. Downing street. Calls it living in the office. My husband feels the same about this place. He absolutely loathes it. We all do, actually. No yes no yes what a scoop rose when peter morgan calls you up, peter who you know no, he emailed me. He said, ive written a play and i would like you to look at this. Its about the queen and her audiences. I emailed back a twoword email you bastard laughter i knew he knew that, in the end, i would have to do it. I was to cross. Rose you said, no then yes. Basically, you say them in a room, the writer and the director i saw stephen doldri, one of the greatest directors in european theater, i saw bob croley, one of the top five designers in european theater, i saw robert fox, one of greatest producers, and i looked at the three and thought, dont be ridiculous youre going to walk away from this . You will never get to do this again. Rose is it easy to play her . I knew all four of them. Rose you knew peter previously. Of course. Rose is it easier to play her on film or stage or does it matter . It does matter. This is very different. Rose how is it different . Doing the movie, the film, the first time i had done it or anybody had done it on that scale. So, you know, the implications of it were sort of terrifying, how it might be received and what flack we might receive. The second time, we know, you know, now those things are accepted and known about. But maybe in a way, in the film, its a very different animal, anyway, because on the stage, i go backwards and forwards in age, and ats stuff, you know, thats a difficult challenge. But the essence of the queen may be harder on film because its close up and youve got to have that kind of working. Rose the interesting thing about the play lets tell them what the play is about. Every week, is it tuesday . Every tuesday, the queen meets with the Prime Minister for 20 minutes or longer, just so the Prime Minister lets her know whats going on politically, you know. Rose yeah. But neither the queen nor the Prime Minister ever talk about what they talked about. Rose and no one else is in the room. No one else is in the room, and it is not bugged. Rose we think. We hope. But its completely and utterly private, and its one of the few places that either of them can feel utterly secure in the fact that, no matter what they say in this space, it will not go any further. Rose so peter had to imagine. So peter, of course, imagines everything. But the only thing that Prime Ministers have said is they felt they could say things to the queen that they couldnt say to anyone else because shes in a position of knowledge but, at the same time, shes got to keep her mouth shut. So they felt free to with her and in a way, for some of them, it became kind of a shrink. Rose and you see her going from churchill to cameron. Yes. Rose and churchill, she was, what, 26 . Yes. Rose and churchill was a friend of the royal family. Absolutely, and through the war and the rest of it. He must have been very present. Rose and her attitude had to be a certain sense of awe, but she was the queen. Yes. Yes, she was the queen. Yes. Yes, of course. You know, that early scene where shes young, she doesnt quite know what shes doing and hes training her up, if you like, i love that scene. Rose but when you look at the career you have had, would you have had it any different . Would you have liked more earlier . Yes, i would have loved to have done more movies earlier. I, unfortunately, hit if you really want to talk about my, charlie rose yes, i do, very much so. Do you . Rose yes. Oh, god laughter anyway, when i was in my sort of golden era, if you like, between 27 and 37, the great era in anyones life, male or female you know, youre at the top of your game, youre getting to be wiser it was a very bad time for british film, it was a terrible time. Confessions of the window cleaner, it was awful. So there was no british Film Industry at that time. So it wasnt until, actually, really, until i came to i mean, prime suspect was great. Rose i got 14 Million Viewers for prime suspect. Yes, it was very successful. But i had done a lot of very good tv at that point as well. Rose you would have liked to have had more film earlier. At that time, british film was alive and living on television. Rose but essentially, notwithstanding however old you are, i mean, you work all the time. Yes, i do. Rose youre in the prime of your career, so to speak. Its been great for quite a long time. Ive always gone between film and tv and theater. Rose you could be prime for a long time, but its as good as its been, isnt it . Oh, absolutely. Definitely. Definitely. I have to say, to be starring on broadway is fabulous rose whats good about it . Its that thing of seeing your name up in lights. Its pathetic but its great rose you walk on the marquee. All the people and its amazing my sister and i look and rose even know you get excited about things like that. Oh, yes, fantastic. Rose did you say your greatest guru was Francis Bacon . Artistically, yes. Rose how did he influence you . Well, a great painter, obviously. There is a book called interviews with Francis Bacon, and he put forth the concept, which, at that time, i had just not thought of the tension between inspiration and technique, and the way accident is very important in art, but you can only achieve accident in a full way after youve fully mastered technique. In other words, he said, you know, its true, children under the age of 7, theyre all, every single one of them, genius painters. Theyre genius because its totally instinctive. But you cant be painting as a 7yearold when youre 14. So, you know, you have to move forward. Then you go through this painful process of learning technique, when youve lost all your instinct, youve lost all your inspiration, youre just learning how to draw a foot, you know. And then you get through that and now you can allow accident to happen. Youre open to accident. Youve got all the technique, youve got all that so deep within you, you dont even have to think about it. Its got to become thoughtless, the technique, and then you can allow inspiration to come back. Rose thank you for coming. Thank you, charlie, as usual. Rose for more about this program a earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs. Org and charlierose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org good evening. My name is tj lubinsky, the executive producer of our my music presents series here on Public Television. Recently i had the occasion to witness an extraordinary film on the life and story of karen and richard carpenter. So compelling is this film that i felt the need to share it with you immediately on your Public Television station. Its the story of the carpenters their rise to success, their fame, and all we cherish and celebrate about this amazing duo. Music that has impacted and changed our lives forever, as tonight a special edition of my music presents brings you the carpenters close to you. Man these were two innocent kids from downey