Transcripts For KYW Face The Nation 20171126

Analysts will catch you up on what you misunderstand week and look ahead to the end of the year sprinted in congress. All ahead on face the nation. Good morning welcome to face the nation im john dickerson. Most of our post thanksgiving broadcasts will dean voted to discussion on leadership in times of crisis. But we begin with the news. President trump system winding up a fiveday trip to his Palm Beach Club maralago where he played golf with tiger woods and Dustin Johnson and wished u. S. Troops overseas a happy thanksgiving. Before he left he spoke with reporters and said that he is supporting Alabama Republican Senate candidate roy moore. Can an accused child molester better an a democrat . He denies it. He says it didnt happen. And, you know, you have to listen to him also. Youre talking about he said 40 years ago this did not happen. Dickerson minnesota democrat al franken responded to new allegations that he touched women while taking photographs with them. I feel terribly that ive made some women feel badly and for that i am so sorry. And i want to make sure that never happens again. We will hear more from senator franken later today. His office tells us that he will be doing interviews with wccotv our cbs affiliate in minneapolis as well as Minnesota Public Radio and minneapolis star tribune. Congress returns to washington this week in addition to dealing with new claims of Sexual Harassment against House Democrat john conyers they face a daunting todo list. With three weeks left before the holiday break. Government funding expires on decemberth so the government will shut down unless an agreement is made. Senate must decide by december 14th whether to reinstitute sanctions against iran, lifted under the Iranian Nuclear deal. Funding has expired for the Childrens Health Insurance Program and the money to cover nine million children will effectively run out by the end of the year. So will the authority for key Surveillance Program used to combat terrorism. Then theres that enormous tax cut package that the president wants passed by christmas. And Congress Needs also to pass the Hurricane Relief bill to help those affected by this years storms. And with all that have on the table we turn to our panel, susan page is Washington Bureau chief of usa today. Reihan salam the National Review and Jamelle Bouie the chief Political Correspondent for slate and cbs news contributor. Susan ill start with you, roy moore, the white house distance hill self at first now the president is all in he tweeted this morning, against roy moores opponent, what changed . I think the president sees some parallels perhaps with his own situation, he was accused of Sexual Misconduct he won the election anyway. He would very much prefer to have republican vote in the Senate Rather than a democratic vote. This will be a big test for voters in alabama above the personal versus political, politics of alabama say any republican will beat any democrat but were at a moment in our countrys history where there is attention to the personal behavior of powerful men and that might turn this election we just dont know. Dickerson jamelle, there s maybe a split, maybe theres not a split but there appears to be split between the president who would who doesnt believe that roy moores excusers and Senate Republicans including mcconnell and mike lee, other senators who have looked at the evidence, looked at responses from roy moore say we believe the accusers. Do you think that split matters . What do you think happens with that split . I think thats what matters in terms of what happens if roy moore wins. If moore ends up prevailing in . Contest, Senate Republicans, as you said stated they believe the accusers have, both harsh words, not so harsh words condemned moore will have to deal with the fact that they now have an accused child molester in their caucus. I think there will be serious pressure to expel him from the senate as a result. That is a direct blow to their attempt to get through this busy december to, advance their general d. Then Major Political weight for the entire party. Im not sure that President Trump is necessarily looking at this a couple steps down the road i think hes very much focused got to get a win, i got to get a win. Once you just back away a little bit, having moore win and then come to the senate presents just a whole host of political problems that will not be easy to deal with. Dickerson and cultural ones, this moment were trying the figure out whether the culture enables, the questions reihan, whether the voters of alabama are enabling that kind of behavior which to say, somebody gets accused their party rallies around them it covers over the okay could you sakes. Its very important to keep in mind that in the case of roy moore this is the case for donald trump and Hillary Clinton there are man rereluctant voters. Votes for their candidate on the basis pretty much of negative partisanship. Thought that the opposing candidate would be such a disaster, if you look at doug jones its very striking that here you have a candidate who is not a classic conservative southern democrat. As very mainstream democrat who has positions on, for example, abortion rights, much else. The fact that he is as competitive as he is right now, actually tells you quite a lot about the state of the republican brand, particularly the state of the republican brand among middle class, upper middle class, College Educated alabamaian voters. The fact that its quite possible that heel win the election speaks to the general weakness of the party. You think that the Party Membership alone would be enough to carry even someone like roy moore through given the climate of extreme negative partisansh partisanship. Dickerson what are the democrats looking like in alabama . Are they going to rally . Undone by this . These allegations or is that might they not turn out . It is not clear that democrats are going to be energized especially African Americans in alabama. That say think a bit of dill policemen ma for doug jones, if you brought in barack owe bam month to rally African American voters do you repel some of those republicans voters who dont want to vote for roy moore but have been long opposed to barack owe bama. Thats one of the complicated factors here. Dickerson al franken will speak later today, new accusations against him. The question being whether democrats lose standing to speak on this issue if they dont deal with their own. We also have john conyers, a longtime democrat in the house, had an accusation come outed, how do they manage this issue . Its clear right now that democrats are trying hard not to manage this issue, not to bring pressure on either conyers or franken. My sense, their credibility on this issue depends on being able to stay a strong stance on it. Even if the details of, say, frankens incident are sort of in order of magnitude more than what roy moore s. To show the public that the party is taking these things seriously. And in the case of franken its not as if there were pressure for him to resign that they would be endangering it. Politically this doesnt seem isnt a direct threat to their minority or future majority. My view that democrats really should take the lead on this that it does not reflect well to be so hesitant to put pressure on. You know, his offenses arent as serious as roy moore, built theyre just so stupid. Hes a u. S. Senator, hes groaning women at the state what was he thinking, no longer comic at this point. In a way, its easy for democrats if al frank sen forced to resign which i think not likely but still possible. Not only would he likely be replaced by democrats hed be replaced by democratic woman given the very strong ranks of women in men politics. Its also through, however, that minnesota is a state trending republican over time. Virginia becomes more democratic thats partly because of domestic migration. Same reason why states like minnesota, pennsylvania, what have you are becoming more winnable for republicans. The next election for his seat will be in 2020 thats fair bit of time. The jerks does the party matter more than al gang wrens owe own survival. Roy moores case its very clear that he has not the best relationship with the Republican Party and republican establishment, right . There it kind of makes sense that hes quite happy to wage war on all the republicans calling him to step down. Al franken cares about the health of larger Progressive Movement and Democratic Party and its very clear that he is a lot less popular than the next atbat democrattish that state. Dickerson move on to policy and all the business that congress has in front. Jamelle, when they return tax cuts to the central question, where do you think that conversation stands on rees to get this passed before the end of the year . I at the moment, republican tax bill coming in fair amount of criticism for its expense, sheer cost, that these tax cuts will end up adding huge amounts to the federal budget deficit. I think that there are some republicans who are have begun to voice their concern about that fact. Susan collins has that shes not happy with senate bill stands right now. I think if theres a path to this happening, its going to resolve around sort of finding ways to much frankly like the Health Care Battles earlier this year. Finding ways to assuage those handful of Senate Republicans what are not entirely comfortable with either the policy consequences or the potential political consequences. Dickerson susan, what do you think . Are these real blockage getting passed in the senate or be dealt with . I think what the amazing thing is, its still alive in the face of like 25 puck support and no actual coherent tax plan of the house and senate agree on. Has not really been any republican senator, ron johnson express interested concerns but more like a bid to buy him off with something. I think it is possible that they pass the tax bill. I think that is remarkable. Dickerson ideologically, how does it match between the trump view and traditional republican view . Its a very awkward marriage of the two. On could argue that they learned one lesson, half of lesson from the populous moment, that lessons its knock we tax affluent blue state professionals. But with that revenue that you gain fred taxing those folks, they have wound up giving in the form of Corporate Tax cuts rather than in the form of tax cuts for lower middle class and working class households. That is a very odd lesson to draw from the moment. However, theres another side of this. Which is that lot of people argued could you have done this in bipartisan way, i that i very, very unlikely. Speaker of house knows that you need complete clarity on. That if you had had some democrats cooperating, that would have muddied the issue for democrats, this is always going to be something owned by republicans and thats why they should not have gone so far in my view on the corporate rate cuts, because theyre still going to offer a better deal to those constituencies, to put it crudely than democrats. And really this was way of winning over trump and its not clear that trump has a good sense of how the politics of this ought to work. Its not clear to me that what has real appetite for 20 Corporate Tax rate that theyre going to the polls on the basis of 20 Corporate Tax hike. Dickerson im going to end with philosophical question. Theres a lot of things that get covered but stuff that doesnt get covered in these periods. I wondered if each of you have an idea, something that youve noticed has been happening that deserves more attention thats out there, susan . One of the things we talked about on this roundtable is how the republicans have unsuccessful in delivering anything since winning unified control of the washington capital. If you look at state capitals, republican gainsf look at hot button issue like abortion republican state legislators have managed to pass stands on abortion spin circumstances just in the last six months since the last election in five states bans on abortion. 11 states major ref visions on abortion in three states, new restrictions on funding for planned parenthood. Gridlock that affected washington has not affected state capitals and the republicans who have made the gains. That shows the importance of the mid terms next year not just for congress forestate legislators. The composition of alabama, their enthusiasm for Virginia Election theres lot of talk about enthusiasm, but i think lost in these conversations is the very real fact that efforts at voters suppression is ongoing in this state. Efforts to restrict access to the ballot. Then on federal level, it is simply the case of President Trump cabinet members who have been remarkably successful at turning the justice departments mission away from its charge of defending the super rights of americans. I think thats going to be under the radar in our sort of focus on whatever the president is saying on any day. Dickerson reihan . One of President Trumps unique contributions, the night states ought to take more strategic approach to trade. These been arguing over 30 years. Yet theres a real possibility that his tax reform, the one that hes endorsed will actually widen u. S. Deficit will put the u. S. Trade sector in more vulnerable position that moving to territorial tax system something that will actually facilitate the offshoring of production and much else, there are two elements of the trump message that steam to really be contradicting each other, the question is whether those elements the Administration Care about trade, who care about more strategic approach will eventually gain the upper hand because right now, theyre not. Dickerson thanks to all of you. You. Well be right back in a moment with our book panel. Ted technoly thats moving companies forward fast. Ecommerce. Real time inventory. Virtual changing rooms. Thats why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent Network Speed across multiple locations. Every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. Leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. Comcast business outmaneuver. [ click ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. Our advisors can help you find both. Talk to one today and see why were bullish on the future. Yours. Dickerson we turn now to conversation with four authors whose new books examine lead every ship in times of crisis. Is Robert Dallek is the author of Franklin Delano roosevelt a political life. Ron chernow is author grant a new biography of the Civil War Union general in 18th president. Nancy koehn is forged in crisis which looks at five historical figures who demonstrated leadership. And Mark Updegrove snoot last republicans examines the president hes of george w. Bush and George Herbert walker bush and their relationship. Welcome to all of you. Eye so glad youre here. Ron, let me start with you. You are all historians but also story tellers, too. So, but general grant, president grant on stage for us, give us your favorite story. My favorite story is virginia 1864, grant is standing on the edge of the woods when lethal shell comes whizzing by him, passes within three inches of his ears. Grant doesnt blink, he doesnt flinch, his facial expression doesnt change he turns to hissage than says, hudson, go get that shell lets see what the enshe firing at us. The reason i love this store tree that shows grants literally coolness under fire. And his metabolism was such that at moments where the rest of us would be fearful or anxious he gets very cool and focused. Dickerson he was more cool on the battlefield almost maybe than in the barracks well talk about that later. Nancy, you have five to choose from. Which one story do you want to tell . Its october, 1915, earnest shackleton is marooned with 27 crew members on iceberg off the coast of antarctic california his ship is being crushed by the ice and men are intense on the berg hes pacing at night. Cant sleep. Doesnt know how hes going to get them all home alive. And he records later in his diary, i had no idea but i had to get them home alive. May be made into what i need to be in order to do that. The next morning, he awakes each of the men by coming to their tent with cup of hot tea says, ship and stores now gone, lads, well go home. Again, the coolness under pressure, the commitment, right, in the perfect storm to do something very worthy and his own uncertainty which was very important but not evident to his men. Forged in crisis. Dickerson Robert Dallek, how about what is fdr well, he had a great sense of humor. Ben cowen came in the oval office one morning and was chuckling. Would you mind sharing the joke with me, mr. President . All right, ben, eleanor was just in here she had been to her doctor this morning for her annual physical. And i said, what did the doctor have to say about that big ass of yours . She says, he had nothing wrong to say about you. Dickerson mark, you tell the story of father and a son, which moment from that do you want to tee up . There are two moments. One is 1990. The Christmas Holidays, the extended bush family convenes at camp david. And its on the eve of desert storm and george h. W. Bush has decision to make whether to send Ground Troops into kuwait to drive out the iraqi invaders. He has a dream that night. His father is alive again, his father died in the 1970s. And he finds out hes at a hotel room near a golf course, he goes to that hotel room theres his dad, he recalls him big, strong, highly respected and he hugs him says, i miss you very much. Flash forward a dozen years and improbably the bush family some once again at camp david. Celebrating the Christmas Holiday with george w. Bush as president confronted with the same enemy and trying to figure out whether he should wage war against saddam hussein. But his father is there, big, strong, highly respected. He can draw on him for his counsel which he does, one and only time he talks to his father about iraq, asks him what she do. Saddam hussein at that point is flaunting u. N. Sanctions, and rattling sabers his father says, if hes not complying, you have to go to war. And you have to for sake of history youve got to understand this dynamic between father and son. Ha president sees were just eight years apart. Dickerson well get back to that. Robert, lets step back look at each of your books. You write about in your book you write, it seems well to remind americans that the system has been capable of generating candidates for high office whose commitment to the National Interests exceeds their flaws and ambitions. Is that it is goal of your book . Yes. Roosevelt had an extraordinary hold of the publics imaginati imagination. For 12 years his Approval Rating never went below 50 . Even in 193738 when he was struggling over purging the party of conservative democrats from the staff, he still had a 50, 55, even 60 Approval Rating. I love those two stories about the man who stopped eleanor on the street after franklin died and said, i miss the way your husband used to speak to me about my development or the man who stood by the Railway Track as the train carrying thed with eye went back to hyde park. Man was sobbing somebody said, did you know the president . He said, no, but he knew me. Can anyone imagine that . Somebody saying that about the current incumbent . Dickerson nancy you chose five people, why these five . A combination of reasons, john. One, i was very, very interested for personal and professional reasons ive been teaching leadership for a long time at Harvard Business school, in how Emotional Experience of leadership. What sit like for the leader him or self self to be in the center, right of the ways and the wins. And i wanted a selection of people that could that were made. Leaders that were made not born, each of these people was made, Rachel Carson the environmenta environmentalist, and the others, shackleton, i also want, i needed to reconstruct the making. Last but not least each of these people like the people in all of your books stumbled into a worthy mission. Either like douglas and slavery or they bumped into it. So, i wanted to reconstruct again to your point where your book, bob, how what is it like to move the bolder of goodness force ward on Something Big and good. Dickerson well take a quick break. Well have lot more from our well have lot more from our book panel when we come back. Stay with us. Blah my main focus was to find a team of doctors. Its not just picking a surgeon, its picking the care team and feeling secure in where you are. Visit cancercenter. Com breast what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning. It all makes sense. Fedex powers Global Commerce with vast, farreaching networks. Deep knowledge of industries. And, yes. Maybe a little magic. Feel the power of thenew power. Smax. To fight back theraflus powerful new formula to defeat 7 cold and flu symptoms. Fast. So you can play on. Theraflu expressmax. New power. What if we could keep more amof what we earn . D. Trillions of dollars going back to taxpayers. Who could possibly be against that . Well, the National Debt is 20 trillion. As we keep adding to it, guess who pays the bill . Him. And her. And her. Congress, we should grow the economy. Not the debt. Dickerson you can keep up with the news of the week by subscribing to face the nation podcast available every friday podcast available every friday evening. Oi thats it . Yeah. Everybody two seconds dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance. Through the Tuition Assistance program, every day mcdonalds helps more people go to college. Its part of our commitment to being americas best first job. Where we can find common ground. Big enough to dance on. For a better us, donate to your local y today. Whfight back fastts, with tums smoothies. It starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. And neutralizes stomach acid at the source. Tum tum tum tum smoothies only from tums we cthen we are toldrld its braver to go it alone. That independence is the way to accomplish. But there is another way to live. A way that sees the only path to fulfillment is through others. That our time here can be deep beyond measure. No one who chose interdependence ever found despair. Because what the world taught as weakness, is in fact our greatest virtue. Dickerson well be right back with a lot more face the nation. More from our Authors Panel plus Walter Isaacson on leonardo da vinci. Stay with us. Do your research. Nd. Find the best fit. Why not do the same for your Prescription Drug plan . At silverscript, were experts in Medicare Part d. And 5 million people, just like you, trust us every day. With no deductible and lower monthly premiums, we could help you save money and get better coverage on thousands of prescriptions. So take a closer look at silverscript. We think youll like what you see. Dickerson welcome back the face the nation we continue our conversation with authors whose new books explore leadership. Robert dallek the author of Franklin Delano roosevelt a political life. Ron cher now is author of grant. And Mark Updegrove is the author of the last republicans. Mark ill start with you on this question of what is your you call your book snoot last republicans no. The bush family, why that title . Because it was clear that the bush bushes represent a lost establishment Republican Party. Right now we see a party at war with itself. Still have establishment members of that party but there are insurgents who have taken over. The partynt stand for anything spiffs i can, theres no binding platform or principles its really what standard bear, very capricious, unpredictable donald trump decides it wants to be. So in some manner the bushes, represent the end to a type of republicanism. Dickerson ron, why grant and was it the grant when you went into the book the same one as when you were finally done . You know, i have contearian, whenever i feel that the stereotype of a particular historical figure is hardened into a caricature im attacked to it. Grant i was interested in retiring three chief smith, one that he was a crude and brutal general, in fact he was a dazzling strategist. I wanted to retire the idea that he somehow stumbled through the entire civil war in an alcoholic haze, he did have a drinking problem but never drank during much less before a battle. I also, most importantly wanted to change the image of his presidency. One that was completely dominated by corruption and cronyism to one that in fact had many elements of courage in terms of his effort to protect the four million former slaves now fullfledged american citizens. Grant, i was crusading for attorney general uses newly created justice department, really questions the ku klux klan which had taken over the south. Dickerson as we talk about president ial characteristics one strikes about fdr, the sense ever guile and lack of transparency. We talk about must be constantly truthful, he was rightly good at that time not hauls being truthful with everybody, was that a key skill of his . It. Was indeed. In fact, the kinds of things that he would say in private. For example, after he won 1944, he disliked tom dewey, privately called him a son of a bitch but never say that in public. Because he was someone who was very willing he would be half a step ahead of Public Opinion e opinion. It gave him a sense of the country a sense of leadership. He was extraordinary character, after all he was a man who couldnt walk. He only made one reference to his disability. His entire presidency of 12 years. When he came back, he said, i know you will excuse me for sitting down for carrying ten pounds of steel around each of my lower limbs. Only time he made reference to the fact what a story. Here is a man who is immobilized, couldnt walk, he wrote a letter to another to congressman saying when you get frustrated, you can get up and walk around. He said, im stuckish this chair and but private see he was always much more candid than he was publicly. Dickerson start by picture the last one of him where he looks like man who had to carry around lot of weight in his entire life. Mark, let me ask you about the bush code. We were just talking about a letter that fdr wrote, i was struck by letter that george her ward walker bush wrote to sis sons during watergate. Tell us about that letter, also the father was also taking whatever moment was happening using it as a lesson for his songs it felt like about this bush code. It. Was a primer of sorts. George h. W. Bush while he is the chairman of the Republican Party in the at the height of watergate, two weeks before Richard Nixon resigns, writes let tore his boys he calls him his lags, talking about that moment of why its important, how you stick by a friend in need, you dont go with the crowd, you dont join the mob, if you dont have to. You stick by your principles and you reserve your judgment. He says in that, understand that power accompanied by arrogance is very dangerous. It is particularly dangerous when men with no experience have it for they can abuse a great institution. Its amazing, first part that have is clearly about Richard Nixon. The arrogance and power. The last part that have is a hypothetical. Somebody with no experience. Nixon clearly had experience. Had been congressman, senator, vice president. Hypothetical so it wasnt hard to infer what the bush family felt about donald trump as he emerged as the clear man to beat in 2016. Dickerson nancy in your book you talk about something called the gathering, which i want you to explain. But also have when you talk about leadership, people are grabbing it. In other words, they are not theres some question always of greatness is it thrust upon you or do you seize it. What is your take on that and explain what you mean by gathering. I any that the i think the leader makes the moment as well as the moment making a leader. Grant is transformed as a general over the course of the civil war. Fdr, right, is changed and developed through the course of his four terms. Im sure this is true of both 41 and 4. So, greatness is not thrust upon us in some kind of divine strike of lightning. Like, great suns something that i think proceeds very significantly from one persons willingness to say, i want to get better. And to fdr im going to show up in service to my mission with dignity and humanity. And compassion and a sense of the Larger National interest. But that development, the ability of fdr to do that, the ability of grant to do such important things toward ensuring that the transformation of american of 13th, 14th, 15th amendment actually happens that wasnt something that they did. They had to work at it. They had to all had all of these people have mired in failure which i maintain is important part of the making of resilient, courageous leaders. Dickerson pick up exactly on that feeling with grant and failure, i can think of so many instances where there was failure not only does he say, but also if he hadnt had failure out west he maybe never would have come back east been position to be hero. I think that happens. He feels that one business after another before the civil war, by the time the civil war breaks out, hes almost 40, hes been reduced to working as a clerk in his fathers leather good store where hes a junior to his two younger brothers, the war breaks out. Hes a Brigadier General, ten months later a major general. Then four years later he has million soldiers under his command. I think that experience of failure was extremely important because he learned how to weather adversity. It gave him a toughness and perseverance that would be extremely important in a war that was very bloody and protracted also gave him audacity, he had nothing to lose and everything to gain. You see there the child again and again takes colossal risks that no other Union General would have dared to take. Dickerson robert, we obviously with fdr there was the polio. I was struck you point out about him becoming an actor as a result of that. A key skill for a president. Yes. He said to other sen wells, one time, you and i are two greatest actors in america. He had a kind of self confidence and i think developed as they go through the presidency and struggle with these crises, but his idea was fdr in the white house. He was the man to do the job. Of course he had the example of his distant cousin theodore. Talk about confidence. And came from distinguished family they were spa trish answer, served him brilliantly. Very clear that great leadership grows from deeply held values. Exactly. Thats still obvious in the case of both grant and fdr. Something that is important to emphasize is honesty. Grant is president with such a stickler for honesty that one day a visitor came to his office, you could just walk into the white house at that point. And grant and his office he heard someone telling someone that the president is out of the office. When the stranger leaves, grant pops out says, you should have said that i was otherwise engaged. He said, i dont lie for myself and i dont like people lying for me. Want to hear the same sense of the very high bar, wonderful line that he says to one of the quarter masters, you when they are providing you cant give me and my family the best choice of cuts of meat when my soldiers, right, dont have socks and enough muskets. The sense that the leader sets a standard of honesty of comportment of dignity that people, the understanding on fdrs part on grants part on both bush president s part that people take their cues from leaders cannot just kids, all kinds of people. Look to leaders for examples of courage under pressure for sense of direction. So i think another element of leaving in turbulent times, john, is the element of how leaders show up and end response. And expression of that was in the fact that Franklin Roosevelt never stepped forward to support African Americans. He never wrote to support an antilynching law. But the irony is that at the end of his administration after 12 years, black voters had moved from the Republican Party to Democratic Party and have remained there ever since. And roosevelt, because of the new deal programs, alphabet agencies, they went down to the levels so to speak of the economy and black voters felt that he was on their side. That wonderful anecdote about industrial work, Franklin Roosevelt was the only man in the white house would ever would have understood that my boss is a son of a bitch. [ laughter ] mark, you mentioned earlier that the iraq war was the in instance where the son talked to the father. Incredibly close yet he didnt turn to him that much. Talk a little bit about that, the tightness of their bond, what that was founded on but the fact that they kind of he wasnt calling his father all the time for advice. Nor was his father imposing his point of view on his son. That goes back to the inherent humility of george h. W. Bush, he didnt want to be an added bud tone his son. Hey, junior, here is how you can do things. He would also concede as would george w. Bush say that the world had changed since his father was president. I think he harbored some reservations about his sons policy in iraq, but he didnt want to do anything to jeopardize. If i could make one point, john, nancy talked about comfortment. You cant under emphasize the important of civility in times of great division. George w. Bush says in his address01 when we were consider very divided after that election of 2000 was contested. He said, civility is not a tactic, it is a determined choice of trust over cynicism, community over chaos. We can live by that adage today. Dickerson ron, let me ask you about these were solitary figures, but also had deep connections with other people. In the case of grant, was it sherman, basically struck by their relationship, but then he also had was it rollins, talk about that interplay with other people. These werent just totally solitary people. There always has to be fearless truth teller on the staff. What happens when grant becomes Brigadier General he invites a gentleman on to his staff, he is ajutant on one condition that grant not drop a touch of liquor, he, rollins would call him on it. He fell off the wagon many times, and rollins privately called him on it but not publicly. He felt that the state of the union rested on the shoulders of ulysses s. Grant. I think we owe tremendous dealt to john rollins who became secretary of war for always having the courage to tell grant what he needed to know. Dickerson of course theres eleanor roosevelt. Yeah. He owed a great debt to eleanor and harold who was a voice for liberal side of his administration. He was very careful politician when it came to the holocaust, for example. He saw the antisemitism in the country, the antiimmigrant sentiments but eleanor was so angry when secretary of state would let any jewish refugees from portugal into the country she went to franklin said, this guy is a fascist. Franklin said, you must not say that, eleanor. She said, but franklin, its true. She was tough. And direct. Dickerson Rachel Carson is different than all these others. Explain why she had to do kind of two jobs. Rachel carson is the only woman in my book, the environmentalists whose environmental builder who did more than any one person to found the modern Environmental Movement by publishing silent spring in is the 62. Fascinatings thing about her story in the context of other four very interesting driven men. Is that she is the primary caretaker for her birth family all her life. For her parents, for her sisters and brothers sister and brother then for sisters kids then for sisters kids kids. Doing all that, government job, trying to write a book. In the late 1950s shes battling Breast Cancer while shes adopted her grand nephew at the age of 15. Not sure she can beat the clock to finish a book that she knows is both dangerous and potentially really will rock the world. So her story, particularly female story, is a story of that very, very powerful kind of courage and grace in pursuit of something really important and decent. Dickerson these are all wonderful books. Of course well have to end our conversation from well be right back with another author and another book, Walter Isaacson. A tiny sword . Bread. Breadstick . A matchstick a lamppost coin slot no . Uhhh. 10 seconds. A stick a Walking Stick eiffel tower, Mount Kilimanjaro ding time sorry, its a tandem bicycle. What . What . as long as sloths are slow, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Youre more than just a bathroom disease. Youre a life of unpredictable symptoms. Crohns, youve tried to own us. But now its our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohns disease. Studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. Stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. Some serious infections require hospitalization. Before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. Before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flulike symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. Alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. These may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. Some serious allergic reactions can occur. Do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. Were fed up with your unpredictability. Remission can start with stelara®. Talk to your doctor today. Janssen wants to help you explore cost support options for stelara®. Dickerson joined by Walter Isaacson, which explores the life and work of the original renaissance man. Walter, you were my boss, you always said stories at the heart of these things. What story starts with leonardo . When you turns that unnerving milestone of becoming 30 years old and hes been you and i remember that a bit. Hes been a painter, moderately successful in florence but has trouble finishing his painting. Its kind of worse because his father is a notary and his notarized some of the contracts of those paintings. Leonardo decides its time to seek new horizons, hes part of delegation this goes from florence to milan a cultural delegation because thats how florence had its influence. It didnt have great military, they would send it to architects and artists, other cities, florence became what wed call soft power. He goes there and he goes as musician because hes invented a lot 6 musical instruments. When he gets the milan he doesnt want to go home. He writes the coolest job application letter in history. The 11 paragraphs, the first ten are all about what he did in engineer and anatomy and art and science and controlling the flows of waters and building castles. Only in the 11th paragraph he says you can also paint as well as anyone. You see leonardo loving everything in nature just wanting to be jack of all trades. Dickerson is that his key quality, that he had this hunger for everything . His key quality, what makes him creative genius, i think, is that he was kiir just about everything. Sometimes it was cure cross tee that could be useful like he would dissect and figure how do i do st. Jerome in the wilderness. Then he kept dissecting the heart and the liver and do layered anatomical drawings. It was a curiosity that was passionate, that was playful and end up being curious for its own sake which is what makes him feel the patterns of nature. Dickerson something nancy calls the gathering, you just gather everything up then expresses itself in various different some people who have written about him in the mast century they approach him as art critic was. Its such a shame that he squandered so much time doing anatomy and flight of birds. Otherwise he could have finished one of those paintings. Thats true. But he wouldnt have been leonardo and wouldnt have had the monaly virginia it was that gathering. Thats what we hoof to understand being curious tea about everything not only makes you more creative it enriches your life. Dickerson and makes you better dinner table conversationist. Great at this table. Dickerson you mentioned st. Jerome, he went back to it later, right is that the one he keeps working and people say he abandoned his paintings. One of the things i discover asked like with st. Jerome, young painter in florence, st. Jerome in the wilderness, very skeletal because hes in the wilderness. Gets the neck muscles wrong early on puts the painting aside. But he comes back 25 years later, after hes done more natural tee drawings and he redoes the neck muscles. Ive discovered wasnt so much that he abandoned paintings he thought sometimes a perfect is the enemy of the good, false a brush stroke i can make better. Reminded me of steve jobs who holds up shipping the original macintosh, i wrote a book about him earlier, lot of similarities. Because steve wanted the Circuit Board inside the mac to look beautiful. So they hold up shipping it so that notion of sometimes you hold on to something until you can make it perfect. Its not a good recipe for business. But it is a good recipe to do every now and then in life. Dickerson the mona lisa, explain why, i think why is this such a great painting . You know, i think people do it you see huge crowds you wonder, okay. When you look at the mona lisa its the culmination of somebody who spent a life looking at that time science, anatomy, geology, but also philosophy and spirituality. And so like even his early paintings but culminating with mona lisa you have the river that curves and ancient mountains and curves into the roads and then curves into the human body as our veins d. He always made an analogy between the earth and tweenies. Thats his fundamental philosophy. Just giving one example of the science doing it. He dissected the human eye knew that the center of the retina is where you see black and white details the edges you see shadows and color. And so over 16 years he keeps painting the lip, he had do dissected the human face done every muscle and nerve, but 16 years hes painting it but does tiniest black and white details at the edge of the lips drawing straight or turning down but the shadows and colors turning up. It becomes an interactive painting. Every time you see her she seems to have a different emotion. You have a different emotion in your eyes change a bit the smile flickers back on. This is magical. Its showing inner emotion reflected on a face. Dickerson last question, 30 seconds. You mention what he would be like at a dinner party. What kind of person was he . He was very collegial, very friendly. He had everybody at the time, the mathematician, all refer to him as his best friend. And what he kind of does is, he makes everybody feel that the way to be more creative is not to specialize, not to silo yourself as we sometimes do to our kids built to be curious about everything for curiosity sake. Dickerson Walter Isaacson, thank you so much. Well be right back. Hi, im joan lunden. Join me and the centers for Disease Control and prevention for our series. [narrator] your health with joan lunden and the cdc every monday, tuesday and thursday on cbs 3 at 6 00 a. M. During commercial time. Sponsored by nacdd, with support from the centers for Disease Control and prevention. Visit cdc. Gov diabetestv. Dickerson cbs evening news begins new chapter next monday december 4th when jeff glor takes over at ninth actor. Jeff, we wish you luck as you take on new responsibilities. Well be right back. What we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning. It all makes sense. Fedex powers Global Commerce with vast, farreaching networks. Deep knowledge of industries. And, yes. Maybe a little magic. Dickerson that is it for us today. Be sure to tune in to cbs this morning with Norah Odonnell and gayle king have some of our cbs affiliate wccotv reporter and anchor interview with al frank franken. Interviewed him more than a hundred times. This will be one we dont want to miss. Until next week for face the nation im john dickerson. S captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org. This is chevy sunday kickoff on cbs3. It is game day in south philadelphia. And youre looking live at lincoln financial field. Where the nine and one eagles are getting set to host the three and seven chicago bears. Meanwhile, in the parking lot. Is wip tailgate zone in full swing. Its the post thanksgiving day edition. I wonder if they have left overs out there. Welcome inside the link link. I am