Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20240703

I love you. I cant wait to see you. It was like Somebody Just put a hole right through your heart. Last, lives, a adultery. Was there more . There was blood everywhere. There was something fishy. If you have a pattern of behavior. Yes. Wives that turn up suspiciously dead . Yes. How far had this man had gone far . Its inappropriate, doesnt make him a murder. You have a wolf in sheeps clothing. Sinister minister. The man of the cloth, inspired from the pulpit. We went away feeling that you had learned something. Marrying the faithful. He officiated over my son and daughter in laws wedding. Counsel the trouble. He is so good at understanding how to comfort other people. But one of the ministers is expected to have gotten it all. Believe it was all fraud. The Minister Role . The Minister Role. I think he was hiding behind that hat. But whether a stranger in crown circle robes carrying out the devils business. I believe he plays on the vulnerable people. Laying hands where he shouldnt. Minister into more than a sole. He would basically council his way right into their bedrooms. Just who was the reverend Arthur Burton sherman . Reverend sherman, a. B. To his friends. Was a small town methodist priest or in small town, pennsylvania. He was confident. He was an allround guy. Daryl cox sat alongside him for 20 years. Hed seen a fresh faced young pastor grow into a devoted preacher. One of the things he helped my family over the years, he was always there. He watched his friend, the pastor, raise his music loving family. Ab and his wife would perform together. They sang together many times, they were quite the dual and duets were considered in the church to seem like the all american couple. The couples daughters, julie and amy. Mom and dad were people who loved each other and took care of each other and very close family. But a deep sadness fell over the family when the wife of four years suddenly died. The daughter requires the farm to be when it was a hard year after. He was a sad guy . Yes. But life goes on and her father did in time, meet somebody who would become their stepmother. A recently divorced woman named betty who shared his love for running and the outdoors. They did seem like they were best friend, they really seem like they had this closeness. I like betty. And betty was loved by and everyone, her sister gina remembers how she made strangers feel instantly comfortable. No matter who you were, it was always hello. And you got a hug. Everybody got a hug. And out of everything in her life, that he was enormously proud of her grown son, nate. So if First Impressions count. Whats your First Impression of Aviation Armor . What i knew he was a pastor. So i thought he had respect right away. I thought he was decent for my mom. In fact, it was the reverend, who officiated that nates wedding a few years later. A. B. Had embraced his new wifes family. They were thrilled as either they sounds such happiness after coming out of a long marriage that soured. Bettys mother, jeanne, was delighted that her daughter had found such a fine upstanding man. He was so nice, you, know he was just thinking that nobody was better than him. This fresh chapter in his life opening up, he took a new church posting as the pastor of the United Church in the poconos of northeastern pennsylvania, about two hours away from the old church. Nate said his mother was homesick at first. She was upset, i think, initially just being so far away from them and myself but also the rest of her family as well. But he said they felt comfort in the congregation. The parishioners were happy to welcome them. The always funded friendly pastors wife. Very lively, very full of energy. Always doing something. Samantha had attended Sunday School at the church from the fact she was knee high. And she remembers how close the pastor and his wife seemed to be. The Church Members always said oh, they never do anything apart. Theyre always together. And thats how it had been for seven years. A. B. , betty, and the new expanded family. But death was stalking the pastor just yet again. We came down the road and spotted a vehicle. It was a warm july night, sometime close to 2 am, stanley and his girlfriend were driving down a deserted country road when they notice the pt cruiser down off the shoulder, jammed against the cardwell. Theres smoke coming from underneath the hood. We slow down next to the vehicle. But being so dark, and the windows up in the car, we couldnt really tell what was going on inside. Dickerson got out of his car and knocked on the driver side to see if he could help. The man rolled down the window, it was a be. He said im fine. But i dont think my wife, as i think shes hurt. Dickerson asked the pastor to turn on the cars interior lights. When he turned it on, there was just blood everywhere in the car. That he was lying in the Passenger Seat. Shivering and covered in blood. The pastor appeared to be in shock. Staring blankly straight ahead. I said what were you doing out here . And he said his wife had some sort of problem with her mouth. A tooth ache. And she had to bring her to the hospital. And thats what he was doing on that road. That early in the morning. Dickerson called 911, they needed an ambulance fast. The car didnt flip over anything, they hit the guardrail. But she seems to be hurt pretty badly. Emts arrived within minutes. And she was taken to the regional trauma center. The son, Away From Home on a business trip, rushed to her bedside. Totally unprepared for what he would find. It was shocking. She was a very bad shape . Yes. I wasnt expecting, wasnt expecting her to look as bad as she did. Could you even recognize her . No, i couldnt. That bad . That bad. Yes. Betty was on life support. And her family was being summoned. Coming up you touched her hand, her fingers, did you get anything back . No. And as i took the picture in her hand, i respect in her ear that i loved her. And, hope that she could hear me. At bettys bedside, everyone was in tears. But according to her son, everyone except for her husband. No crying, no praying, or anything like that. When dateline continues ion feel darkest before dawn. With caplyta, theres a chance to let in the lyte™. Caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. Unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. And in clinical trials, Movement Disorders and weight gain were not common. Call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. 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I stole them from an airport. Its always something with you, man. Great solid greek salad . Exactly dont delay the game with verizon or tmobile 5g Home Internet. Catch it on the xfinity 10g network. The power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. And thats a good thing . Great in my book who are you . No power . No problem. Introducing stormready wifi. Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. She had always been there for home of the xfinity 10g network. That. Now bettys mom and her eight Brothers And Sisters had gathered at her bedside. She looked bandages, swollen bruising. We were all in shock. It was just horrible. Bettys youngest sister, tina, was at her bedside in Intensive Care. Just two weeks before they had celebrated the birthday they shared. They said their goodbyes after a nice lunch. Do you remember what the last words were . We have to make sure that we keep doing this. Every year on her birthday. And that she loves us. Hrt only son, nate, got to the hospital as fast as he could. Bringing with him a Holiday Photo of his mom in happier times. Mother, son and the grandson that she doted on. She looks so happy with all of us together. Theyre on the couch. And i place that in her hands to hold. As you touched her hand, her fingers, were you getting anything back . No. And, as i put the picture in her hand out whispered in her ear that i loved her and hope she could hear me. A solemn village all began. A light heading away amid Intensive Care machinery. How are you comforting one another . Hugging, crying together. Holding on to each other. Seeing some prayers. At the hospital, bettys husband of seven years, pastor a. B, see to the family at times. Obviously just friends. But perhaps, they thought he was still in shock. After all, he had walked away virtually unscathed. In a car crash that left his wife on life support. But no crying. No praying or anything like that. But his daughter from his first marriage remembers that her father was beside himself with grief. He was upset he was crying. I saw him at her bedside sobbing. Sobbing with one of Betty Sisters. Holding on to her. According to official reports. The pastor said he had been doing about 50 in his p. T. Cruiser when the accident happened. A deer, he said, had david out into the road. And into the garden. Betty slammed into the windshield. And arriving officer noted that the airbags had deployed. A. B. Told his sister in law, tina, that betty was not wearing her seatbelt. I questioned again. What do you mean she didnt have her seatbelt . She would never be without a seatbelt. But betty, moments before the crash had made the fateful decision to unbuckle her belt, the pastor told arriving officers. Less than 24 hours after she had been rushed to the hospital she died. Nates mother was gone. The woman who built sandcastles with him. Who taught him how to write his bike. Nate had loved his mother so much. I was overwhelmed with grief. Crying. And i was putting my head on her chest. To hear something. But, there was nothing there. Given the pastors account of a relatively high speed crash. And the arriving officers right above the wreck. The coroner ruled the death an head accident, caused by severe deaths injuries. They would be no autopsy. And they told them that they want to be cremated. Want to be cremated. She was cremated the next day. Very quick. A decision that serve surprised her family, but it was properly the spouses. At the funeral, a. B. Selected a container that caught his eye. He picked the one with a deer on it. A deer . The deer. The deer that was in the card railing . The one that caused the accident. Yes. Odd choice, maybe. But nate reminded himself that his mother had loved nature. They went to local parks. A. B. Said that she always enjoyed seeing the deer. His Administrative Assistant of the past two years, cindy, helped him take care of the funeral arrangements. Her daughter, samantha, 16 at the time remembers it well. That morning of the service i went over early and was helping her with the lastminute details. The church was packed as people rose to eulogize the beloved betty. But nothing was heard that day from the pastor. He sat in the pews and listened. He presided over so many funerals and told friends that this was one that he couldnt bear to speak at. In the receiving line, the preachers stood next to his step son, nate, as the funeral doors. Each paused briefly to offer condolences. He said nate i would like to introduce you to my church secretary, this is cindy. And he said to me we have a little inside joke between us. The church here. And he said i go by a bee and she is known as cd. And then he said abcd. And they kind of chuckle together about it. Did you think that was a cozy joke you think . I felt that was kind of odd at the time. While nate wondered about the relationship between the pastor and his assistant, cindys daughter had some question of her own. She noticed her parents drifting apart in the months before the accident. Did your mom seem different . Samantha . Yes. She seemed much more distant from my dad. Her father joe, who struggled with alcohol had steadied himself on the foundation of the church. A skilled cabinet maker, hed even made a desk for the pastor s office. Was a fancy . Very beautiful. It was terry and had Three Crosses on the front. But now he was back hitting the bar. His demons were after him again . Was the growing distance between cindy and her husband joe the reason why that she and her boss and seemed to spend so much time together. She needed somebody to talk to. What better than your pastor . But samantha would soon wonder whether the pastors ministering was not so much godly, as of close and personal . Coming up. Samantha plays teenage detective. And is surprised by what she finds. I was looking through my mind phone. And i found text messages. Things like . I love you. I cant wait to see you. You look really nice today. And, im sorry. That isnt normal. When dateline continues it hasnt been easy. Now, im staying ahead of it. Dupixent helps heal your skin from within. So, you can clearer skin and noticeably less itch serious allergic reactions can occur, that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, including blurred vision, joint aches and pains, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Ask your doctor about dupixent mr. Clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. So it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning, and you know i didnt. It makes my running shoe look like new its amazing. Its so good. It makes it look like i have magical powers. Magic eraser and sheets make cleaning look easy. In the weeks after the death of it makes it look like i have magical powers. In the weeks after the death of the pastors wife in a car the pastors wife in a car accident, samantha wondered why her mother was spending so much time with her boss, the reverend ab sherman. What in the world was going on . I was being a nosy teenager and i was looking through my mothers phone and i found text messages. Things like . I love you. I cant wait to see you. You looked really nice today. And, im sorry but that doesnt normal. Even at 16, samantha knew it wasnt right for her mother to be treating for patients text with a recently widowed pastor and samantha became little miss fix it. She decided to do something irregular family like confronting her pastor in a roundabout way, using a fake Email Address she wrote one of those i know who you are and know what youre doing kind of messages. Basically it just said that someone knew about what was going on and he should stop or i was going to take it to the church. And at that point, i didnt want to expose anybody or cause an uproar. I want to my family back. It didnt take the pastor long to figure out that his assistant, cindys daughter, was behind the threat and samantha was summoned to a meeting in the pastors office. Her, the reverend, and her mother. How tough was that session . Very very difficult. Because as a child i had to just keep my mouth shut and say yes maam, no maam. Two Great Authority figures in your life telling you you are out of line . Yes. Did they say you misinterpreted what was going on . Yes. Were just friends. How dare you. Samantha didnt believe a war that she was being told, but she didnt know where to turn with the suspicions of this affair between the mother and the pastor. And your dads in the dark, you know, and he doesnt . Yeah. At that point i dont have any other choice. I wasnt even gonna tell my dad. I couldnt at that point. I didnt have the nerve to break as a part. But she could only protect her that for so long. When cindy and a. B. Went on a day trip together. Joe got a wind of it. He called me and he said, what is going on . What is going on with a. B. And your mother . Its very, you know, what do you want . What do i say . And at that point, you know, hes like. Is she in love with him . And i said, i think so. Joe waited in the driveway for them to return. And confronted both his wife, and a. B. Samanthas mother came clean. Telling her husband while she felt an emotional attachment to the pastor, the relationship had not yet turned physical. She said, all right yeah. Al and the affair. And ill try to work on things. My dad was trying his hardest to work on things. And, get the marriage back on track. But joe no longer trusted his wife of 18 years. His sister rose found out later that he was monitoring her every move. He was tracking her cell phone messages. How long she was talking, and what numbers she was talking to. And joe did not like what he saw. Even though she told him and knew that she was going to put an end to this . There she was calling him. Joe drove his daughter out to the horse barn. He was having panic attacks, and said, i just dont know what to do. And i was young. I did know what to tell him. At that point, he knew that, i think he knew that things were just not gonna work out. For a man who had struggled with depression all of his life the world was becoming an even darker place. I think at that point for my dad, family was very important. And, if it my belief is that he thought my mom was gonna leave him. His kids were gonna get taken away. And i think without his family he wouldnt have had any reason to live. The next afternoon, samantha said that her mother called her in a panic. The pastor reportedly told cindy that joe had called him. Threatened to kill not only himself, but maybe samantha and her brother too. She told me that my dad had taken his gun out of his dresser and taken it to work. Samantha says that cindy instructed hard not to go home that night. That she may be in mortal danger. The 16yearold did not know what to think. She had always been a daddys girl. Loved him beyond measure. But she was frightened. And so she obeyed her mom, and took refuge at an aunts house. Joe gets home that night and the kids are gone. And cindy is gone. So he keeps calling cindy and begging her. You know i would never hurt you or the kids. You know this cindy. We can only imagine the stories that were thrashing in joes mind on the night of october, 2008. Alone. Rooting. He drove to the methodist unitas church. He smashed a rock into the glass panel of the rear door of the church. Then he sat down in the reverence chair. And took out his gun. Sat right at that desk . That he made . That he made. Yes. Is it possible that he was gonna kill the pastor . Yes. Or at least threaten him. But the pastor wasnt coming. Cindy had reportedly phoned a. B. To warn him that joe was armed, and on the move. A. B. Left town. And, so, he went to a motel. Because he thought that the angry husband was looking for him with a loaded gun . Right. Who knows how long he sat in the past or share before they pull the trigger . But they found him the next morning, slumped. The bullet had gone through his skull and deflected off the upper part of a winter flame. Joes sister knew something terrible had happened when her husband walked into her office that morning. And he said, joe killed himself. What . How could that happen . It was like someone just put a hole right through your heart. And youre like, i just couldnt believe anything like that could happen. Cindy broke the news to samantha and her brother. She said, your dad decided that he did not want to be here anymore. And my brother said, where did he go . It didnt sink in. And then i said, wait what . And she said, your father took his life. At the office in the church . Yes. In the pastors office. What a dramatic statement that is . Yeah. The definitely the biggest statement that he couldve made. Samantha would learn later that her father in his last hours words on the verge of submitting a formal complaint with the church that could get a. B. Fired. Joe did not vote leave behind a suicide note. But there was something that he wanted people to know, especially his daughter. He put his briefcase with all of the cellphone records, the contact for the bishop of the church, and his cell phone. His camera. Under my bed. So kind of his case he was building against the pastor . Yeah. I definitely took it as a sign. You know, figure this out. Rose didnt need to see inside joes briefcase to understand what had happened. She says cindy shamelessly told her about the Love Triangle the night before joes funeral. I watched her face, and i felt that she was a woman that was awake in some way. That had not felt that ever before in her life. She evidently love this guy. Rose could not believe it. This is a pastor. He cannot step back and let the two of them work it out . He cant help himself . How could he do this . Whats wrong with this guy . The pastor was about to face more than just a crime of the heart. I was afraid for other parishioners. They should investigate him to find out if he has done this to other people. Rose was about to take up her brothers dying wishes, and set in motion an investigation that could not only get ab bounced from the , but also could potentially put the him singing preacher away for a long time. Had he broken not only the seventh commandment, the one about adult truly. But the six commandment as well. The one forbidding murder. Coming up i just think he has no conscience. He has no, he doesnt care about anything but his own self. Row starts digging into the pastors past. And is that why what she discovers. There were things that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up when dateline continues t id save you the trouble. Nana shes a human measuring tape. And she knows allstate is the right fit for her. Its not gonna fit. Thats not gonna fit. What . Steven . Some people just know. Well played. Well played, my friend. Those are the people who know youre in good hands with allstate. [ ] those are the people who know youdid you know,ands theres a way to cut your dishwashing time by 50 . Try Dawn Powerwash dish spray. It removes 99 of grease and grime in half the time. Dawn powerwash has 3 Cleaning Boosters not found in traditional dish soaps that remove food and grease 5 times faster. 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Im a believer i got to get some always discreet hammered louis with our top stories, 16 Million People in the New York City area are bracing for another wet weekend, flood watches are in effect in eight pm eastern. The storm is expected to move to the east this weekend. Some Breaking News just an msnbc as well as declaring a state of war after hamas carried out a combined Attack Firing Rockets from the gaza strip into israel territory. According to the idea of, the Israel Defense force. They are saying one person has been killed and at least one dozen injured. Now, back to dateline. Ack to dateline. Cindy musante seemed to be moving on very quickly after the suicide of her husband, joe, in late october cindy seemed to be moving on pretty quickly after the suicide of her husband joe, in late october 2008. Her family said it wasnt two weeks before she packed up her s belongings and taken them to the salvation army. The pastors assistant was now free to be with the man that she loved. Her boss, the reverend, a. B. Sherman. He had been a widower since losing his wife on a car wreck that summer. Cindys daughter samantha says her mom and a. B. Picked up just days after her dads suicide. My mom went away the next weekend to go see him. It was very difficult to be hurting and have just lost your father. And have your mom go off visiting her lover. I guess. Healing the wounds pretty quickly . Yeah. Very. Joes sister rose, the onetime counselor. Tried not to judge her sister in law. She was obviously head over heels for the pastor. Still, she thought the pastor had a lot of explaining to do. Basic things like, why hadnt he called the police . When joe threatened to kill himself. And possibly even his family. Anytime you threaten somebodys life. Or you threaten your own. Youre supposed to call the authorities. You were a counselor, you know that. So i picked up on that. And i thought, jeez. Being a pastor. He didnt even do that. Instead, rose says, they let the desperate husband spiral out of control. Rose was haunted by her brothers final hours. He folded, he couldnt stand the pressure. And, i feel really bad that he sat in that room by himself. Because i knew how much his guts were turned inside out. Rose was determined to give her dad brother a voice. Seven days after joes suicide she drafted a letter of complaint to the bishop. He has violated his pledge to be a man of god. She wrote. And as that the reverend be held accountable for his negligence. It wasnt a witch hunt, its never were out to get you. My aunt simply wanted it investigated. Theres something fishy when a pastor of a church has an affair with a parishioner. Theres something wrong. A week later, a. B. Was summoned for a meeting with the permission or. Rose says that he didnt even try to defend himself. He resigned from the church. And he was a broken man when he left her office. And he was done with the church . That was it . He had to surrender his license. And he had to get out of the parish within a certain length of time. And he wasnt supposed to talk to any of the parishioners. No contact with, them or anything. He was just forced to leave, and that was that. But there was one churchgoer that he couldnt stay away from. Samanthas mother. Months after withdrawing from the pulpits, the onetime lever was dropping by citys house for dinner. She said oh, hes gonna come over for dinner. I think i have to work that night. You didnt like him . I had a lot of hostile feelings. I felt as if, you know, my family was invaded. And before samantha knew it, dinners were turning into overnight stays. He started bringing overnight bags. And the overnight bags did not leave. Thats when panic really set in for me. Samanthas aunt rose, would later view him with discussed. For spending more and more time with her dead brothers family. Seemingly, without a thought of the man who had died by suicide at his desk. I was thinking, he has no conscience. He doesnt care anything but his own self. But what a. B. Did not know is that rose did not just write him out to the church, a few days after she mail that letter to the bishop. She made a call to the police. She had a hunch, she told investigators, not about her brothers joe suicide. But about that car accident that killed the pastors wife, betty. People had filed that away. Hadnt they . Yeah. That the reverend had lost his wife in a car accident . Rose said it was cindy who told her about the accident that killed the pastors wife. He was taken to her to the hospital and a deer ran out, and they swerved. And i said, did the deer hit the car . And she said no. And i said oh. The story of the car accident that killed betty struck her as odd. And the more she uncovered, the more suspicious she became. There were these things that were really disturbing, you had the hair on your back of your neck standup. One of the cops to receive the call was detective james ragnar. The who was assigned to investigate. I immediately thought that i need to look at this to see if theres any signs of foul play. The patrolmans report seemed cut and dry. Betty had died after hitting her head during the car wreck. But the key witness had been bettys husband, reverend a. B. Sherman. The man that detectives were told to take a look at. At the hospital, the pastor had a vivid account of the crash to the deputy corner. Whats the story as he tells it . He told a very similar story that he told to the oscars were sir investigator. But he told the lead officer to try to investigate those severe injuries that had been sustained. He made it sound, to this corner, that the vehicle spun out of control. And went flying as an under strength passenger. Well everyone that drives rural roads can see that as a very plausible story. All of a sudden there is a dear, you try to swerve, you lose it and got awful thing happens. For a corner whos located 45 hours away who doesnt know anything about the accident itself. That would seem normal. And hes taken down the account of that Methodist Minister . Thats correct. Wagner kept digging and discovered the departments archives and a cache of photos from the crime scene. When he punched them up on his computer, the detective immediately notice that they didnt match the story told by the pastor. The car was only minimally backed up. Their airbags had not deployed. It turned out that the officer who had written up the original incident report, had gotten that detail wrong. And the detective wondered why he saw no tire marks on the road. There were no signs or evidence of evasive maneuvers had all. There shouldve been. But there werent. There were not. In his eyes there were zero evidence in the photos indicating a high speed collusion had ever occurred. And, yet bettys injuries had been simply horrific. She had suffered multiple Skull Fractures and two huge gashes on her head. It just didnt fit, said the detective. There is no way the person sitting in the Passenger Seat would sustain the kind of head trauma that she would. Did you say this thing stinks . Yes. I did. Coming up investigators noticed Something Else odd about the cars change shoulder. The impact was so much that they would go flying out all over the place. So they were just where they had been . Correct. And it wasnt just the coins that didnt seem to add up. The guys would photograph with the blood in the seat and i immediately notice that the blood does not make sense. I had one of those moments where its oh my god. This is it. When dateline continues only when i see flakes. Then i switch back to my regular shampoo you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. Hes right, you know. Is that tiny troy . The ingredients in head and shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. Microbes, really . Theyre always on your scalp. Little rascals. But good news, theres no itchiness, dryness or flakes down here i love tiny troy. Hes the best. Make every wash count little help, please. Drip. Drop. Drip. Drop. Make every wash count have you ever seen anything like this . Drip. Weve met before. Drip. Drop. Dont be scared . [ Sinister Laugh ] [ screaming ] it was hard to believe that this Modest Church it was hard to believe that in the poconos had become the setting this Modest Church in the poconos had become the setting for a murder investigation. Detective james wagner was delving into the shermans late night car accident. Wondering why pictures of the supposedly high speed crash didnt seem to match the account of the driver, reverend a. B. Sherman, whose wife betty had died. He tracked down the pastor by who had called 911 the night of the accident. To see if he had any further information that would help explain the discrepancies. Just by looking at the car, there didnt seem to be any real damage. The Good Samaritan motorists confirmed what the detective had concluded from the photos. Bettys injuries seemed way out of proportion to the Minor Fender Bender that she experienced. She was shivering. She wasnt really conscious. Even at the time, he remembered thinking it strange that the pastor was staring out the windshield, making no effort to help his wife. He made no attempt to get out the car. Or really, even speak to her. Or comfort her. Which isnt something that you would expect from somebody who is with their wife. Who is potentially dying. And even more unusual, Detective Wagner realized that the pastor relied on a Motorist Call for help. He couldve dialed 911 himself. Mr. Schumer had of functioning cell phone. And, he never made a 911 call. Wagner kept looking at the photos. The statements. I got to a photograph of the plugged in the seat. And i immediately noticed that the blood does not make sense. I had one of those moments where its oh my god. This is it. Bettys car seat was spattered with blood. But, the detective thought, it shouldnt have been. If she was initially injured while sitting in the Passenger Seat how did it get under her . If betty did sustain a Bleeding Wound from that particular catch, she wouldve been bleeding on herself. There would be a void from her body. Her legs. And her butt in that seat. The only logical way to explain the blood on the Passenger Seat, the detective thought was if betty had been injured and bleeding before she got into the car. What i saw was that, evidence that told me immediately that she was bleeding prior to that crash. It had nothing to do with the deer slamming into the windshield . Absolutely not. Could a. B. Have done something so monstrous as to stage a car accident as a coverup for murder . It was shocking to contemplate. As the investigation was ramping up, members of bettys family were wrestling with the past. Reliving bettys final days. Things just werent adding up. Bettys son nate, was bothered by one of the last phone calls that he had. I could tell there was something wrong. I just couldnt put my finger on it. But when he sifted through a box of momentous his stepfather had given up after the funeral. He found a Birthday Card that a. B. Had written to betty only a couple of weeks before she died. Tucked inside of it was a postit note. The post it notes that for all of the pain i caused, you i am sorry. I hope someday you will be free to laugh again. Free to soar. Truly free. And the world free was underlined. Some sort of apology . Whats going on . How do you read this . Obviously there was something going on behind the scenes. Something no one else is aware of. And bettys family had been taken aback by what they saw at a. B. s lack of emotion at the hospital. Did you see any tears that night . No. They thought at times he acted more like a party hosted a grieving husband. Just Out Of The Blue just like this. You go. Hey billy, come see your sister. Like they just had a newborn baby or something. And went two months after the accident, tina took a. B. Out to lunch. She was surprised to find the new will owed valor in law so happy. He was texting. He called cindy, and said her name is cd and my name is a. B. Im having a good time with that. Did you wonder who this woman was . Yeah. It was, he just was having too much fun. Two other things stood out for bettys family. Things that seemed out of character for their sister. A. B. s story about her not wearing her seatbelt just didnt ring true. My mom would always tell me, seatbelts save lives. If i wasnt wearing a seatbelt, she always make sure i put it on before we go. So did it make sense to you when he said that she was not bought buckled up . I dont know what to. Think that wasnt like my mom. And then there was a. B. s decision to have betty cremated. What did that surprise you . It did. My mother chose to be cremated. My sister, betty, did not agree with it. Back in the poconos. The state police had pulled into Help Detective with the case. The team took a second look at the p. T. Cruiser speed that night. The pastor had told the responding officer that he was traveling between 50 and 55 Miles Per Hour when the crash occurred. But, in one of the accident photos, investigators noticed something odd. When they looked at the change holder, they saw that almost all of the quarters remained neatly in place. The impact was so minor that they didnt go flying out all over the place. So they were just where they had been . Correct. And an expert and crash reconstruction looked at the case, they concluded that the pt Cruiser Speed at the point of impact wasnt nearly half of what sherbet had claimed. At the time that he collided with the guardrail, he was less than 25 Miles Per Hour. This was at lower Speed Accidents . Correct. Investigators now believe that the pastor had staged the accident to cover up the killing of his wife. So five months after bettys death, one set of investigators asked the pastor to come down to the State Police Barracks for a talk. Well a separate team of officers, and crime scene techs headed for the personage to have a look around at the place where a. B. Had lived with betty. You want to hear what he had to say for sure but as important was putting him under a roof and knowing where he was . Correct. We didnt want to compromise anything by him finding out that we were there and searching the personage. The cops were about to blow the case wide open. Who do you think he is . A very sick, sick man. Do you think hes a killer . I do. Yes. I do. Coming up a break in the case. I walked in the back door of the garage, it was unlocked. And i immediately notice passive blood drops near the post. Right above the stairwell. And i was shocked. I could not believe it. But it turns out there is someone who doesnt think the pastor is a killer. And his opinion may count for a lot more. The forensic pathologist said, that the injuries were what he would expect to see in the Motor Vehicle collision. When dateline continues new crispy dragon shrimp. One of seven endless choices. Right now, only at red lobster. Welcome to fun dining. Viruses and bacteria float all around us. Unlike air fresheners, only new lysol Air Sanitizer kills 99. 9 of viruses and bacteria in the air. Because scent cant sanitize. Lysol can. Looking for a smarter way to mop . Introducing the new swiffer powermop. An allinone Cleaning Tool that gives you a mop and bucket clean in half the time. Our new cleaning pad has hundreds of Scrubbing Strips that absorb and lock dirt away, and it has a 360degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just cant. So, you can clean your home faster than ever. Dont mop harder, mop smarter, with the new swiffer powermop. 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Its hard to believe that somebody in that position would commit Violent Crimes such as this. In december, 2008. About a month after investigators began reviewing bettys death. They asked the husband, a. B. Sherman, to meet with them at the state police. He thought he was gonna answer questions about the suicide in the Church Office just two months before. Investigators had other ideas. You have two operations going on. You have this man in first down. Meanwhile, youre going a Crime Tech Way to see what happened to the person. Yes. While a. B. Was in an interrogation room, Detective Wagner and a team of crime scene technician swept into the parson itch in the methodist shirt. Video cameras rolling. They were looking for any evidence that betty had been attacked before she got into the car. A. B. Had moved out about a month before. They were concerned that he could still get access to the parsonage. They cased the kitchen, the bedrooms, scoured every inch of the percentage basement. And found nothing incriminating. But what they discovered in the garage, they say, was jawdropping. I walked in the back door of the garage, it was unlocked. And i immediately noticed passive blood drops near the post, right above the stairwell. And i was shocked. I could not believe it. Do you say whoa, timeout. You have to get in here. Check it out. I did. I called one of the troopers who was nearest. I say i have blood here. And they, we all could not believe that there was visual blood there. And not just one or two blood drops. Wagner could see clusters of blood. Visible to the naked eye. And it looked to him, as though someone had been trying to clean it up. I could see evidence of washed blood. How did it show itself . It looked diluted. It looked faded from water. Or cleanup efforts. Investigators sprayed the garage with luminol. A chemical that glows when it interacts with blood. They set a ghostly trail of blood appeared, leading from the backdoor, to where the car wouldve been parked. Detective wagner could also see the crime lab in front of them. You could already see Betty Injured. Being brought into the garage door. He brought in the garage door. And, physically loaded and put it into the Passenger Seat. But just because there was blood on the garage floor, didnt mean that it was necessarily better. Yes state trooper phil, now retired, was also at the seat. Now you have to find out whose blood it is youre seeing . Yes. And the blood is documented. And then collected for dna testing. And it comes back from the lab . As . Betty sherman. Its all her blood. But even before they had that lab confirmation, the investigators at the personage called the troopers interviewing sherman, the pastor, to tell them of their breakthrough discovery. As he sitting across from detectives, your phoning in and say we have blood out here . Yes. He first denies that betty ever blood in the garage. That she ever blood anywhere in the personage. But when confronted about this bloodshed, in the garage. He comes up with a story about how she cut herself moving wood. Sherman told police that betty had helped her move betty so badly that she needed a badge. And sure enough, he confessed that they did in fact find the pile of wood on church grounds. But what they found hidden beneath the pile would only raise more questions about abs version of events. Coming up did a. B. Make a Freudian Slip during his interrogation . He subconsciously throughout the statement of putting her in the car. Which, is what i believe, he did. He put her Bleeding Body into that car. And then, another wife. And then another suspicious accident . There were rumors, all kinds of rumors about her death. Investigators dig into the details. And make a troubling discovery. What i found out was very shocking. The case was left still pending and undetermined. With no outcome. When dateline continues frustrated by skin tags . Dr. Scholls has the breakthrough youve been waiting for. The first fdacleared athome skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. Reporter under questioning, Pastor Ab Schirmer clinically proven to remove skin tags under questioning, pastor a. B. Told police there was a simple explanation for his wifes sherman told police that there was a simple explanation for his wifes blood on their garage floor. Betty cut herself while moving wood from the garage to a pile in the backyard. Forensic troopers are meticulously going through, it looking for potential Blood Evidence. What they found at the bottom of this stack was newspapers. And, the newspapers were dated september 2008. So, help me on, that was the newspaper important . Because, betty died in july 2008. And it is impossible for body to have helped him move this firewood. But she was dead at the time that that would was deposited in that location. Investigators believed they had caught the pastor in an outright lie. And there was one more incriminating statement that a. B. Sherman made during the statement, according to the detective. Something so small that sherman possibly didnt even notice. He subconsciously threw out the statement of putting her in the car. He use that term, like put her in the car. Which was, what i believe, he did. He put her Bleeding Body into that car. Investigators told schirmer, he was free to go. They were done with. Them for now. After seven hours of interrogation, the by, then former pastor was apparently rattled. Next message he tried to get betty sister, tina and sandy on the phone to alert them that the police would be called. The call to sandy went to voice mail. [inaudible] please give me a call. Its very important. Its very important that you call me. Please. Thank you. Bye. We called him back and we said, a. B. , you cant meet leave a message like this for heavens sakes. Youve got to meet us. They met with a. B. The same day. Did you ask him that, did you kill our sister . As soon as we sat down, he asked if we want to call for anything. And he said, sandy, i did not kill your sister. Detective wagner called Betty Sisters the day after the interrogation. And, was surprised to find out that a. B. Had already contacted them. I just thought that was very interesting that he was already playing that Manipulation Game and beating us to the punch, so to speak. The detective thought a. B. Was certainly acting as though he had something to hide. But, as convinced as investigators were that the pastor had staged a car accident to cover up the real causes that these death, there was still huge holes in the case. So, now you have a theory that but he was killed. Here on the grounds of the church. Did you have a weapon . Did you know where . We did not. I had no idea where it took place or what instrument might have been utilized to cause those injuries. And, there was a huge setback when investigators brought bettys hospital records to a medical and examiner for review. The forensic pathologist said that Police Injuries are what he would expect to see in a Motor Vehicle collision. A Motor Vehicle accident, just as the pastor said. An investigative stumbling block. But, there was another lead for the detectives still to explore. Remember, betty wasnt the only wife a. B. Had lost. His first wife of 30 years, jewel, had also died. There were rumors, all kinds of rumors about her death. The pastor had told some of bettys family that is first wife had died after an illness. He had told me that she had passed away from cancer. His first wife died of cancer . Yes. But, other Family Members heard it differently. They believe that jewel had died after tumbling down a flight of Basement Stairs. I didnt know what had happened down there. And i needed to find out whether jewels death was suspicious in anyway. Kathy segers knew the story better than most. A good friend of jewels, she was in the pews for most of her ten years at the bethany United Church in lebanon pennsylvania. How did the congregation receive . Great, great, they loved. And they locked him. And he was reinstated over and over again. And, a. B. Angelas daughters remember their parents being devoted. Not only to the church but to each other. Did you see little affections, holding of hands. Yes. A soft voice across here and there. Yes, yes, definitely. And their dad, adored them. Julie and amy remembered how he was the one who got them off the school in the morning. He would come in and he would say, amy, year he didnt do that for you . He kind of touch me and run. And run. And yet, beyond their devoted dad, maybe there was a sight to a beat that is daughters and even most of the Church Members did not see. Kathys husband were bowling buddies. He often would come home and say what a horrible temper he had, . Really, the reverend, . He said he would kick the house where the ball came back if he bowled badly. And it wasnt just the reverend supposed temper at the Bowling Alley that cost the eyes of a beast buddy. Kathy, said his constant flirting with women slowed the game down. When it was history tumble, he wasnt there. And, hed have to weigh the round. That would make the guys upset because it made them later to go home. So, the men had a different perspective on a. B. Yes. So, my father to was there. , and he would say things are fishy, something doesnt feel right. Referring to what as you look back at it . With a. B. And theyd see him with more than one woman there. That was fishy. And, even at church, kathy noticed a. B. Seemed overly attentive to female members of the congregation. In the months leading up to juless death, he said that there was one woman in particular commissioners were whispering about. At that point, one female in the church that you would see him with in a corner talking while jewel was taking care of Everything Else in the church. Meanwhile, what kathy saw, her best friend jewel was frozen out of the pastors affection. I never saw anything affectionate from him to jewel. I dont think i ever saw kiss. He never hugged her. I dont know if i ever saw him hold her hand, actually. One disappointment towered over the others. For months, kathy says, jewel had been looking forward to a big 30thwinning anniversary treat. A trip to New York City to see the phantom of the opera. Shed bought tickets to surprise a. B. But, when the time came, he announced that he wasnt going. A. B. Had a wedding to officiate. Did that broke her heart a little bit when he said, im not going . I think, pretty much. She called me up and she said, i can kick and scream all i want and hes not going to care. And hes not going to come. So, will you come with me . Sure, i will. During jewels Favorite Song in the broadway show, kathy remembers jewel calling a. B. So he could listen in. But, she couldnt reach him. She tried to call him to see where he was and to tell him that this is the song and this is you, know i want to do to be here. He didnt answer. And that was later in the evening. And she asked, me do you think that if he did have a wedding and was invited to the dinner afterwards that he would be home by now . And i just agreed with her, yes. I would think he would be. Was the Mouse Playing while the cat was away . Kathy had her suspicions. Did you ever talk to jewel about the things that you were starting to think yourself were going on with a. B. . I did not. I did not. I didnt want to hurt her. But, the whole issue of a. B. Suspecting cheating, soon became mute. Not long after that trip to New York City, julia was found sprawled at the bottom of the Basement Steps at the parsonage. A Bathroom Cleaner Cord wrapped around her lead. A. B. Told the emts he discovered her when she came back from running. Drool was taken to the er with multiple fractures to her skull. Kathy immediately went to the hospital. How did she look . Terrible. Her head was huge and it was all wrapped up with gauze. You really couldnt have known it was her. Her daughters kept vigil at their mothers bedside. It was horrific. It was terribly shocking. Like, i guess you knew there wasnt going to be a good outcome. Yeah, pretty much got that feeling. I still prayed for miracles but, yeah, i had that feeling. There would be no miraculous recovery for the 51 year old wife and mother. Jewels injuries were insurmountable. Julian amy remembered their father falling apart as the decision was made to turn off the life support machines. He and i walked outside and i remember, it was a sunny day. And he said it was a Beautiful Day but it was not a Beautiful Day and he wanted his wife back. For some reason, that just really sticks out in my mind because i think it was the way it was said. He was just so sad. Jewel was buried and mourned by the congregation. Sundays at the church were never quite the same for Kathy Without Jewel behind the organ. She and her sister told ab, a few weeks, on how much the. We talked about how sad it is that she is not there. And we miss all the music and everything that she did. And, his statement to us was, well, youre just going to have to get over it. And, the reverend, apparently, took its own advice. Two years later, he decided it was time to move on. A new chapter of his life with the new parish in the poconos and a new wife, buddy. Kathy met her just one time. She was jogging with him and i was thinking, wow maybe shes good for him because jewel didnt like to jog. And he found someone that has his likes. But, as i walked away i thought, wow already . Yet, the rumors about a. B. s first marriage, the freefall down the stairs, didnt mean much to Detective Wagner until he called his counterparts down at with the question. And anyone there ever required about Jewel Schirmers death . What i found out was very shocking. They told me that the case was left still pending and undetermined with no welcome. And, the closer he looked, the more he started to see some chilling parallels with bettys death. What do you think youve got here . This is very surprising for a minister. What with the story of the autopsy reveal about how Jewel Schirmer died . Coming up they didnt rule it an accident, didnt rule it a homicide. They ruled it as we dont know. But, perhaps there was one person who did know. When dateline continues. The lungs and lower airways. But im protected with arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. But im protected. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Goli, taste your goals. I am no devil. I am no devil. I am no devil. Ahh i am no devil. I am no devil. Katherine . She burns in hell. The Reverend Schirmers second wife, betty, the Reverend Schirmer, second had succumbed to multiple Head Injuries in 2008, wife betty, had to come to multiple Head Injuries in 2000 and. Eight, and investigators were curious to learn that so had his first wife, jewel, in 1999. You have a pattern of behavior. Yes. Wives who turn up suspiciously dead. Yes. Assistant district attorney, mike mancuso, found the alljewel shimmer case troubling. Something about the story just did not at up. It is weird that this woman jewel, with according to her son, vacuum the steps twice a week, every week for 14 years. One step at a time, nice and slow. And then she, not only fell but suffered 14 different impacts to the head on her way down. According to the authorities, two hours away from lebanon pennsylvania, where jewel died, an autopsy had been performed a decade before. After she had said to have tumbled down a set of Basement Stairs. The forensic pathologist was doctor wayne roth. You did the original autopsy. I did. What was your opinion about what had happened to her. Traumatic brain injury. Doctor roths report, told the prosecutor that even back then, there had been doubts that jewels injuries, a massive trauma to her head, were consistent with the story of a jewels manner of death had been listed as, undetermined. They didnt ruled an accident. They didnt call it a homicide. They ruled it, as we dont know. In fact, the pathologist have been so concerned about his findings that he had suggested authorities take a closer look. But, that never happened. A local coroner, mistakingly as it turned, out till police that dual had fallen down the stairs after suffering a heart attack. It was a heart attack. They decide to close the investigation. A decade later, that old case was suddenly very relevant. And, later in the investigation, prosecutor would make it interesting move. Hed ask dr. Ross, the pathologist who performed jewels autopsy to analyze both duel and Betty Schirmers records. There wasnt much for doctor ross to work. With unlike drill, but he hadnt been autopsy. But, cat scan images of her brain have been taken at the hospital. The pathologist would be definitive in his conclusions. The industries noted to Betty Schirmer are inconsistent with the traffic accident, with no airbags deployed in which mr. Schirmer had absolutely no injuries at all. Doctor ross said there were two wins on the right side of but he said that could not have been caused in that car accident. And, an opinion that became Even Stronger when he examined these computerized 3d models of betty skull. These two images here are huge. Doctor ross was convinced betty had been murdered and brutally so. She got fractures on the right side of the skull. And, directly underneath that, she has swelling and bleeding to her brain. Thats a lot of force going through there. And, what kind of Murder Weapon would the killer have used . Doctor ross had an idea. It was my opinion that she had been struck, multiple times on their head with a long cylindrical object with a lot of weight to it, a crowbar, something. And he was suing for the fences, essentially and hitter hard. At least twice. In this area. And caused that damage. And, the real stone, or for the put david, just injury was eerily reminiscent of that other schirmer case that he had seen so long ago. I mean, its self evident. There were two lacerations, Oh My Goodness it looks exactly like Jewel Schirmer. Doctor ross compared the two injury saw thes side. When you compare the two of them, the similarities are striking. The similarities are to the right side of the head on both jewel and betty. In terms of the lacerations, its all happening right here, in both women. Its all happening right side of the head, both women. In death, the doctor thought, they couldve been twins. And, investigators also found what they believe are other similarities between the two cases. Signs the thought of a cleanup. Scrubbed bloodstains on the first garage in the poconos and the story of scrubbed bloodstains at the foot of the Basement Stairs in jewels case. Back in 1999, detectives learned, jewels brother had been by the side of his sister in the icu that he went over to the parchedness to see just what it happened. He thought the blood had been cleaned up. He confronts schirmer. What happened to all the blood . And schirmer says the emt stayed behind and cleaned it up. And he said thats bull. I ran an ambulance, i know that didnt happen. And schirmer doesnt respond. Investigators thought, the other Big Similarity in the two deaths were the rumors in both about a. B. s behavior with other women. Your opinion is that jewel yeah. The wife was aware of his infidelities. Painfully aware. And, the prosecutor thought divorce couldve been a problem for the pastor. I think it wouldve been maybe stained on his reputation. You know, and he was very conscious of how he appeared to others. Because, remember, hes up on high. Hes counseling youth. He is everybodys person that hes looked up to. So, he certainly wouldve wanted that. And, when detectives look at the pastors computer, they saw that he had a secret life. Was a part of a motive for murder . A reason to get rid of not one but two wives . Coming up a strange passe time for a pastor. He was addicted to pornography. Obsessed with sex. Obsessed with it. When dateline continues. Ound us. Unlike air fresheners, only new lysol Air Sanitizer kills 99. 9 of viruses and bacteria in the air. Because scent cant sanitize. Lysol can. Oh, hello hi do you know that every load of laundry could be worth as much as 300 . Really . And your clothes just keep getting more damaged the more times you wash them. Downy protects fibers, doing more than detergent alone. See . This one looks brand new. Saves me money . Im starting to like downy. Downy saves loads. 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Detect this i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Ask your doctor about switching to dovato. I stay undetectable with fewer medicines. He stood before his congregation as a man of the cloth and bettys devoted husband. He stood before his but behind closed parsonage doors, congregation as a man of the cloth at that these devoted husband. But behind closed partners doors, authorities believe that a. B. Schirmer had been keeping some dark and tawdry secrets. He was a wolf in sheeps clothing. For a, year team of investigators have been working to build a case against the former pastor, a. B. Schirmer. He was sitting with the reverend, out on the gospel circuit. And said, his friend did not understand why he was being targeted by investigators. A. B. Would tell, me theyre investigating. And he told me, he didnt know why. He said, there is nothing there. That they wont find anything. Theres nothing to find. But, investigators thought they were finding plenty. By now, they were tried to connect the dots between the death of the Second Wife Betty and his first wife jewel. And, zeroing in on the motive for murder after they examined a hard drive on the reverence computer. Obsessed with sex. Obsessed with thousands of porn sites. More than playmate duty pictures. We ran the gamut on perverse behavior. And, seasoned investigator, trump or phil barr little says that the sheer volume of a. B. Searches was tallied. He was addicted to pornography. It was evident by his computers. Addicted to the chase of sexuality. And, as they dug deeper, they found emails indicating to them that abs sexual targets were not virtual but sometimes very real female Church Members. Kathy, well tell them about a. B. Suspected efforts during the first marriage to. Jewel, Detective Wagner said it was proved that a. B. Had gone around on betty too. He was counseling women who are very vulnerable for many different reasons. Maybe troubled marriage, alcohol abuse, something of that nature. , and he would basically council his way right into their bedrooms. Investigator wendy said that she could see the trail of women extending back for decades. There was never appeared in this mans life where hes not got some woman on the hook. We look back, you know, into the 70s and is the 80s and its a constant, you know, you could see the pattern right pleading itself over and over again. But, even if the pastor was a Chronic Philanderer as investigators thought, why was that a reason for killing his wives . It seemed to them that he had been cheating on them for years. Why resort to murder . Investigators speculated something must have changed. Whatever it was, there was a sense that betty was a troubled woman just before the car accident. Well, a month or two before her death, there was a noticeable lack of a growing this with the church that they took note of. And, remember this posted note, the pastor had a touch to bettys last Birthday Card. The one her son nate had come upon as we look through a box of keepsakes. The one that, said he was sorry for all the pain he had caused her but soon she could soar free. How do you read that . It could only mean, in the context, that there was an understanding that the marriage was about ten. That was day double to her last birthday. Which was the end of june 2008. , and she was ashes by july 17th. But, still, they had to, wonder if they believe the pastor had staged a car crash in a dark rural road, and, by now they did, then why . Maybe, they theorized, that timing had to do with cindy. Was betty on to her husbands about his assistant . What if she asked the pastor for potentially career crushing divorce. Hes wrapped up in the or of the poll. Hes a man of the cloth. He doesnt want to jeopardize it. And the breakup of this marriage and divorce anything nasty, affair he didnt want to tolerate that. And the prosecutors, thoughts in these affection for the past or were becoming, maybe, dangerously apparent. She was infection waited with the reverend. Just mentioning his name, a big smile would come across your face. And, two days after bodies Car Exodus In The Summer of 2008, cindy center condolences to the pastor. Sounding her email, love you. The mushy cd. A. B. Replied, love you too. Prosecutor van cuzzo was also struck by this photo of schirmer he said was taking the weekend of bettys memorial service. You dont see a man whos distraught and devastated lost in a long. He smiling. Theres one photo in particular where he was cooking up a load of scrapple. And he has a very selfish weird look on his face, relaxed, at ease. But, a few months later, things would get more complicated on that october night when sydneys husband, jones, shot himself at the pastors desk, heartbroken that the wife was involved with the reverend. His suicide allowed cindy and the pastor to finally be free together. But going through the pastors records, investigators surfaced and tracked what she saw as the couples increasingly steamy relationship following jewels death. Its just, it seemed to, me to sudden. I dont understand how you could work or do you grieve . Where was your grieving time . She said, their Credit Card Receipts revealed one davis and local hotels. Theyre having an intimate relationship. We also see, then, theres hotel stays overnight, hotels stays in and out. There was also smoldering emails to each other. Cindy, wrote unimaginable is the only word that even comes close to describing last night. I have occupied this body for 40 something years and trust me, this is not normal for me. And a. B. Wrote, im very hungry for you. Your body is fantastic. And, schirmer even confidence in the how happy was with her. He said his relationship with betty had been missing something. For the last two years, we did not have sex, he wrote. Betty is menopausal. Not interested in sex. They were not intimate. He was tired of her. She was no good anymore. So, goodbye betty, hello cynthia. That would be the timing, yes. And, it was not only hello cindy but Hello Samantha and her little brother. The children came too. More than a year after joes suicide, samantha remembers the pastor being there almost all the time. What was he like around the house . Very moody. Very kept to himself. He didnt really want to be bothered with my brother or i. Rose, samanthas aunt, was watching from afar was distressed by the thought of the pastor living with her dead brothers wife and children. He has my brothers house. And he can be with his son. And he could sleep in his bed. The decision sees making and his behaviors dont add up. Because, you just dont do that. But, the new couple was making big plans. Later that summer, in august 2010, cindy and a. B. Announced their engagement. The daughter samantha was terrified. She called the police. Frantic that her mother would become the third late misses a. B. Schirmer. Investigators agreed. And decided they couldnt wait any longer to arrest the former pastor. With what they saw as another potential women at risk, they decided to make their move. On september 13th, 2010, Detective Wagner knocked on the front door of cynthias house. Cindy came to the door and i asked where mr. Schirmer was, and as i started to approach she said he was in the kitchen. And as i started to approach into the kitchen area, he went out the back door and ran right into the he was trying to make a getaway, . It appears so. But, a. B. Schumer did not resist. He was cuffed and read his rights. Charged with the murder of his second wife, betty. The deepest secrets of the Reverend Schirmer we are about to be revealed to all. He would stand trial and a case that would leave a small pennsylvania town abuzz with its ungodly charges. Coming up prosecutor seem to have a strong case, but, dont underestimate the defense. Theres a lot of things that werent appropriate for the case that doesnt make him a murder. When dateline continues. Ficant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer Bowel Movements at 4 weeks. Skyrizi is the first and only il23 inhibitor for crohns that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. The majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. Liver problems may occur in crohns disease. Ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohns with skyrizi. Control is everything to me. Learn how abbvie could help you save. 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Schirmer was a dangerous character. I believe he was a sociopath who will do whatever he wants to do. And he has. And i concluded murder. In his term of the century courthouse in the pocono mountains, a. B. Schirmer would stand trial for killing his wife, betty. He pleaded not guilty to first degree murder. And, sitting behind him in the courtroom would be his daughters, they had no doubt that their dad was innocent. Your four scores behind your dad. People should miss, that is that right . Thats the you never had to know. It had been more than four years since amy and julie step mom, Betty Schirmer, had been found bleeding and unconscious in her dads car. Now, it was time for jury to hear the evidence against a. B. Schirmer, and decide whether he was a murderer. A lot of the prosecutors case was circumstantial. There was no Murder Weapon, no eyewitness, no confession to the crime. But, even though the case had its challenges, the prosecutor had won key victory before the trial had even started. Now, the former pastor wasnt on trial for jewels death. But, a judge ruled that the prosecutor could still tell the jury about it. And, point out the similarities between how she and betty died. Blunt force trauma to the head, brain damage, brain dead, injury patterns, remarkably similar. It was from the same type of object. A long cylindrical object. This is like the Deck Of Cards being turned over again and being played out. Right. While the prosecutor would describe for the jury the crushing blows, he believed killed both wise, this trial would focus mostly on betty. All in all, it was tough testimony for bettys family to listen to without going to pieces. I just couldnt stop crying. How long did she sit and suffer in pain. The prosecutor asked the jurors to use their common sense about a. B. s version of events. He played them these Computer Animations of the car crash as reconstructed by experts. Remember, a. B. Had told police he had been traveling at around 50 Miles Per Hour when the accident happened. At 35 miles an hour, the car would completely travel right through the guard rails. Sailed through the guard rail well into the correct. The prosecutor said the Action Reconstruction prove the pastor was driving slowly when the car struck the guardrail. Too slowly for betty to have been fatally injured. More proof than the socalled accident had been staged by the pastor, who attacked his wife somewhere else. A bogus rep would also explain his strange behavior in the car. No call to 911. No attempt to aid his injured wife. The answer was, his inappropriate behavior at the hospital the prosecutor said. Like this remark to a nurse. The defendant says, what a pretty woman betty was. And, then he makes the bizarre statement, and she had a nice ass too. The prosecutor declared that the reverend met anyones test of a sinner on a frequent basis. His computer was waited downward searches for point, according to a prosecution or investigation. One person testified that she had an ongoing affair of many years with him. It was just a shock to me. One of them, he actually was still sleeping with two weeks after he murdered my sister. The womans, or the in motion will entanglement with his all added up to a crumbling marriage, the prosecutor still the jury. And, maybe he said, responded the only way he knew how. Theres underlining violence with him in that while masked that comes out. Violence that had been mapped out on the floor of the garage, according to the prosecutors. He had a theory about how the crime occurred. She was beaten in the house. He backs out and goes off and he concocts his crash. After seven days of testimony was finally the pastors Defense Attorneys turn to present his case. You think he didnt do it . Right. Brandon told the jury that sometimes accidents just happen. He argued that some of the prosecutions forensic analysis wasnt based on sound science. The Blood Evidence in the car, he said, didnt even match the prosecutions version of event. If there was so much believing that Betty Schirmer was loaded in this car after being bludgeoned by a crowbar there shouldve been blood on the windshield. The defenses own but ologist told the jury that bettys Head Injuries were inconsistent with a blow from Something Like a crowbar, she had suffered internal injuries. There is a deep injury to a right long that can only be caused by a car accident. This is a right sided chest hitting the dashboard. As for the blood on the Passenger Seat, the defenceman taint that it wasnt blood from a beating that occurred before she got in the car, as the prosecution charged. When you heard the testimony from the emts who extricated betty, there was a point in time where her head was out of the seat, and there was active bleeding. Of the blood in the garage. If he had in fact cleaned up after killing betty he argued, he wouldve done a much better job. Would he really have left blood drops in the garage for the world to see . A you could really clean it up, you wouldve cleaned it up. They werent cleaned up. Once more he said they had exaggerated the amount of bettys blood found in the garage. They took luminol photos that were out of focus viscera presented to the jury what they had . Yes. And they argued that they discounted too quickly his argument that Betty Injured herself. On a newspaper dated after her death. They were simply looking at the wrong stack of wood. Mr. Sherman told them to look there for the wood, didnt do that. One of the troopers that he did that but if you look in the background of his own photo, you can see a wood pile in the treeline. Once more the defense attorney maintains that everyone was misconstruing a bees va viewer at bettys bedside. His own daughters told the jury how it was their fathers work at a reverend that accounted for his demeanor that day. Hed been a pastor to many people who had gone through tragedy he is so good at understanding how to comfort other people. They said their father was overcome. We walked with him through the grief. We walked with him through. It we saw him. And, remember that photo of a. B. Smiling while he cooks scrapple just days after betty was gone . It was far from being evidence the lawyer argued of his indifference to bettys death. Thats a snapshot. Thats not a total picture of the whole time. No. Its taken out of context. In fact, betty and a. B. s marriage was strong, argued the defense. The relationship seemed good and we were able to establish that there wasnt a problem. There were no allegations of violence in that marriage. No. But, remember that posted note that a. B. Had written to betty, apologizing for being pain he caused . Her and hoping he would set her free . Well, the prosecutors had that the marriage was on the brink the defense attorney said that they reminded the words of a caring husband. One who knew that this job was preventing his wife from seeing her family as much as shed like. A. B. Schirmers description of why you put that it was simply because that he wanted to express her that i had caused her hardship and pain by having this job and readers. Yourself are away from your children, your grandchildren. Bottom line, argued, the defense attorney, a. B. Loved his wife. And had no reason to want her dead. I argued that there was no motive. Made no sense. We talking about a ton of money from insurance or something . Theres no Life Insurance. And, the only thing a. B. Was guilty of, his lawyer said, were some all too human mistakes. But, that, in his opinion was not a motive for murder. He did a lot of things that one appropriate, it doesnt make a murder. Well do the walk of shame but it doesnt make him a killer, is that the argument . Right. And, perhaps the best person to convince the jury of that was known other than maybe schirmer himself. He did what defendants dont often do in criminal cases. He took the stand in his own defense. The pastor turned history to face the jury. Perhaps, the last opportunity hed have to preach. He admitted to being a center. Having an affair. But, he denied killing his wife. His daughters watched. How do you think he told his story . I think he did well. Sincere truthful. By the sun, nick novak, was less convinced. I was full of anger. I knew he wasnt telling the truth. Truth, the finding of facts, that was the jurys job. The time was a to see what evolved. Coming up the verdict. But first, the prosecution offers one final clue to prove the pastor was a killer. Its something that mr. Schirmer forgot, being a typical when dateline continues. Nondrowsy claritin knocks out symptoms from over 200 allergens. Without knocking you out. Feel the clarity and make today the most wonderful time of the year. Live claritin clear. Listen, your deodorant just has to work. I use secret aluminum free. Just swipe and it lasts all day. Secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. And hours later, i still smell fresh. Secret works ohhh yesss. Your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients it really works. Reverend a. B. Schirmer stood accused of a brutal crime. Bludgeoning to death, his second wife. And staging a car accident to cover his tracks. In his closing argument, the prosecutor, as the jury to expulsion schirmer, the sinister minister. Hes kind of like a predator. And he looks at peoples vulnerabilities and help manipulate them and getting their good graces and play with their heads. And, the prosecutor offered the jurors one final clue, he said, was a death blow to the pastor story. Its something that mr. Schirmer forgot being a typical male. Look closely at the photos of the accident scene, the prosecutor said. His investigator, when the surface, had noticed something was missing. Something bad he wouldve had with her. Right, shes going to the hospital, what would she do . She gets dressed, grabs her purse. And then i stopped and i said, women it, she has no purse. It was a crucial prop the prosecutor argued that maybe had forgotten to throw in the car when he staged the car accident. But, the defense attorney, in his final statement, told the jurors this was no vaccine. He urged the jurors not to punish the reverent because of a self confessed sense. Murder, he said, was not on that list. They needed to focus, if they were willing, on the forensics and not be brought into the idea that hes a bad person and therefore he did a bad thing. Now, it would be up to a panel of strangers to decide the pastors faith. While the jury deliberated, betty and jewels children waited. Maybe stepson was convicted of guilt. The evidence was just there. Its overwhelming. But a. B. s daughters were adamant to convinced and his innocence. They had lost their mother jewel, that they would not lose their father too. Whats happening to your family . Do you say, why . Sdf self pity . Now, we dont have self pity. God is good, hes walked with us through everything regardless of whats happened. A. B. s fiancee, cindy, waited anxiously to. So did the prosecutors. I never know what the jury is going to. Do you always worry when the jurys out, right . Yeah. Your line of work . Yeah. Anything could happen. Absolutely. After an hour and a half of deliberation, the jurors had reached a verdict. But his family took their seats in the courtroom. Were all huddled together and in seats and we all had our heads down. Then, the verdict. Guilty of first degree murder. We immediately hugged, a few of us shut it out and started crying. For bettys family, the moment was bittersweet. Fresh waves of grief were bodies and the brother in law, a. B. s betrayal. So, he was a stranger to all of you. This was the secret from the beginning, you think. Now yeah, i do. Setting sitting at your thanksgivings table, stopping, by senior grandchildren, it was all a friend. I think it was. Sandy, what did a. B. Schirmer do to your family . Think he physically broke our hearts. And he put a mom in help without a daughter. She really cared for that guy. And it has to turn out to be like this. On the other side of the courtroom, a. B. s daughters could not believe it. It was it was another tragedy to hear that. I just im still i was just so sad. I just cried, devastated. I still hear it in my head, replaying. The verdict. The verdict and i dont agree with the decision. We know regardless of what any jury said hed never hurt betty. How are you feeling right now . The pastors fiancee, cindy, had no comment for reporters after the verdict. No reaction at all . She was Still Standing by her man. She still loves him. Give him 600 a month while hes been incarcerated. Samantha says her relationship with her mothers strained. Samantha, how do you conjure up a new mother Daughter Relationship . I love her, its plain and simple. Shes family. She could wrong me in every way possible but at the end of the day she still my mother. You love her . Yeah. But, the parent samantha is really living for the is her father. She said, she dedicates every day to making him proud. Everything i do is for him now. You know. I hope hes proud of me. In a sense of getting justice . Yeah. Everything, going to school. Being successful. Anything i wanted to do he believed i could do it. Samantha said she has found forgiveness for the man who couldve become her step father. But, bettys son nate isnt there yet. I dont think ill be able to say those words. Who is this guy, nate . The sinister minister. Presented himself as a pastor, pillar of the community. But, we all know now there was skeletons in the closet and things going on behind the scenes. A. B. Schirmer was sentenced to life in prison without parole. His defense attorney appealed the verdict. Arguing, among other things, that the death of a. B. s first wife jewel should never have been allowed to be a part of bettys trial. I think the admissions of the first wife circumstances surrounding the death of Jewel Schirmer really did prejudice the case. What do you have to see the Pennsylvania Supreme Court denied his appeal. But, as the former pastor was being taken off to jail, prosecutors said he told deputies he felt strangely calm. And we couldnt understand why he felt so relaxed. And, i mean, i know why he felt so relaxed. I mean hes been carrying this thing with him for many years. You know, the old terrible things will set you free. Forgiveness is the providence of the church. Justice is the duty of the state. In 2014, a. B. Schirmer, the disgraced pastor, received an additional 20 to 40 years in prison for the murder of his first wife, jewel. He pleaded no contest. But, still insist he is innocent. Saying he took the plea disperse family, the pain of a second trial. My Mental Health was much better. But i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. Td can be caused by some Mental Health meds. And its unlikely to improve without treatment. I felt like my movements were in the spotlight. 1prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults thats always one pill, once daily. Ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. People taking ingrezza can stay on most Mental Health meds. Ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntingtons disease. Pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. Dont take ingrezza if youre allergic to its ingredients. Ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. Report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. Sleepiness is the most common side effect. Its nice. People focus more on me. Ask your doctor about 1 prescribed, oncedaily ingrezza. Ingrezza travel. There is nothing like it dancing is my passion. 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