Birthday, North Korea. Hope you remember to get them something nice. North korea traces its founding to This date in 1948. And so today was full of palpably terrified North Korean citizens marching through the streets dressed identically, Doing Synchronized things with s flags and banners all pledging loyalty until death to the third generation of totalitarian dictators who have ruled that country since its founding in 1948. The cult of personality that undergirds the North Korean dictatorship involves the worship of the kim family as gods on earth. Today, on the occasion of North Koreas birthday, the chinese president , Xi Jinping and the president of russia, Vladimir Putin, sent warm congratulations to North Korea. Warm congratulations to kim jongun, praising his dictatorship, promising Closinga Relations and cooperation in the future. And at some level, maybe the Birthday Card from China And Russia for North Korea makes d sense. I mean, both China And Russia do border North Korea, all three of those countries are dictatorships of one kind or anOther. Ip but China And Russia are kind of in different boats, right . Russia used to be communist, briefly tried on the idea of being a democracy, now under Vladimir Putin its devolved into a variety of fascist ut dictatorship. Russia waging the largest Land Grab since World War ii. China is still communist. China is also huge, both population wise and in terms of its economic and geopolitical influence. China, of course, is the Other global superpower besides the united States. Yeah, these are three dictatorships, two sending a Birthday Card to the third. Why are these two Big Swaggery countries, China And Russia, kind of embarrassing themselves with This small fry, with This a weird little small fry, aligning themselves with honestly the Freak Show that is North Korea . North korea for decades has been in competition for the top spot globally as the strangest, most backward, most repressive place on earth. North korea is known for its mass cultlike spectacles forced on a population that literally has been taught to worship its leaders as gods. They have been told that every time their Dear Leader goes golfing on every hole he gets a hole in one. And no, youre not allowed to laugh at that. A country where the Dear Leader brags about assassinating his relatives using antiaircraft guns. A country now regularly floating balloons full of Trash And Poop into Neighboring South Korea because sure, why not, thats a thing that normal countries do. E a country known equally for the Mass Starvation of its own people while its government committed massive, immeasurable resources into becoming a nuclear rogue State. Whose sole exports now are e Statesponsored Cyber Crime and weapons. To the Other Real EState office. Ask your vet for apoquel. [ Bird Squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. Megs moving company uses tmobile. So she scaled down her fleet to save money. And dons paying so much for at t, hes been waiting to update his equipment theres a smarter way to save. Comcast business mobile. You could save up to 70 on your wireless bill. So you dont have to compromise. Powering smarter savings. Powering possibilities. At a time when i wish we did not need to think so urgently about This kind of stuff, at least we have some good health in seeing, naming the threat. Quote, All Of Us have in our minds a cartoon image of an autocratic State. Theres a bad man at the top. He controls the army and the police. The army and the police threaten the people with violence. There are evil collaborators. Maybe some brave dissidents but in the 20th Century, nowadays autocracies are not run by one Bad Guy but network. These networks are connected to not only one anOther within a given autocracy but to networks in Other autocratic countries and sometimes democracies, too. They share troll farms that can be used to promote anOthers. As well as themes. Themes like the degeneracy of democracy, the stability of autocracy and the evil of america. Those are some of the opening lines of Autocracy Inc. the dictators who want to rule the world, the latest book from Pulitzer Prizewinner Anne Applebaum. A thesis i keep coming back to as the campaign gets later and later and the republican side of it gets more and more explicit about their hostility to the american system of government. Anne applebaum is ostthe host of the atlantics new podcast called autocracy in america. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate you being here. U w the Opening Segment that i did. First of all, let me ask you, you and i dont always agree on these things. Certainly, youre a very distinguished historian in the field. Is there anything i said that you think im getting the wrong way around or misstating particularly on Holocaust Denial and its dangers . No, i think you hit it exactly right. I would just add something which is that by criticizing Americas Role in the second World War, and implying we were on the wrong side, you know, we should have been with hitler against churchill, the Holocaust Deniers, tucker carlson, Jd Vance, are undermining one of the really few historical moments that unifies us. Were a country that has a very complicated history. People take different sides on different issues. One of the few things we have agreed on is that we were on the right side in the second World War. We did something good by fighting in it. We helped save democracy. We rebuilt europe after the war. Its one of the things that defines america in the second half of the 20th Century and the first half of the current century. If you undermine that, you take away one of the few things that we really all have in common. And i think thats deliberate. If you shatter a country, if you destroy its sense of what it is, if you make people doubt The System, the history, everything they have always believed in, you know, whats churchill even our friend . Then you prepare the country for something very radically different. I think there are people around trump who want that. Yeah, its taking one of the moral cornerstones of us as a country and blowing it up. Which has all of the architectural consequences you might think. Let me also ask you, after Vice President harris got the nomination, there was some talk among pundits that she should shift the Campaign Message away from This idea that trump poses a threat to democracy. Saying that that kind of language makes him seem like a more powerful figure than he really is. Instead you should focus on making him seem small and pathetic. As someone who studied these threats and transformations what do you make of that political calculation . Actually, you can do both. The one really successful election against autocratic leadership that happened a few months ago was in poland. One of The Ways it was won is not just by saying the Ruling Party are dictators. It was also by connecting their autocratic instincts to things that people felt. So actually in poland, one of the big issues was abortion. Making people understand that it was actually because the Ruling Party had illegally captured the the courts in an unconstitutional way that people, literally women were dying, and people felt the real impact of it. And i think harris could do that. I mean, i actually thought her speech at the convention was very effective. Talking about Americas Role in the world in a way that reminded americans that we used to be proud of what we were and who we are and what we stand for. But i also think you can connect that to what people experience in their daily lives in a really powerful way. Others have done it. She could do it too. Heading into tomorrows debate, obviously, i think its i have said i think its a little surprising to see the rhetoric and the promises and even the joking get even edgier and sort of bloodier from trump as we get closer to the campaign and closer to the debate. If a candidate or major party is campaigning for top office by threatening long Term Prison sentences for all kinds of people that oppose them, threatening the kinds of Norm Upending and system of government upending Things Trump is promising, are there examples of that Around The World where people ran for office on that kind of a platform and won and then it turned out to be a bluff, nothing to worry about . No is the short answer. It seems oo me that what trump is doing is by invoking violence, by making people afraid, by talking about terrible things that are going to happen, he makes people want dictatorship or thats what hes seeking to do. Its really in times of Chaos And Crisis that people turn to strong men, and i think hes trying to create that feeling that were living in a crisis and therefore he should win the election. Theres also something else going on which is hes beginning to feel he might not win, having been very certain of it a month or two ago. And hes also preparing his people and his supporters for a second attempt to steal an election. And so the implication is that if he doesnt win, that its because somebody cheated, because of illegal immigrants. That is in preparation. Also, hes certainly trying to evoke fear and prepare people for more violence. Anne applebaum, Pulitzer Prize winning historian, the author most recently of Autocracy Inc. really good to have you here tonight. Dark topic and really urgently needed discussion. Thanks. Thank you. All right, much more ahead here tonight. Stay with us. Stay with us to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine, like google, but its r and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browsel but it blocks cookies and creepy ads that follow youa and Other companies. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Why choose a mobile network built join for places youllople tak probably never be. Y. Instead of for where you are most of the time . Xfinity mobile was designed for where you need it most. Now Xfinity Internet customers can buy one line of unlimited and get one free for a year. In arizona, Maricopa County, just after the 2020 election, This was outside the Vote Counting Center in phoenix. Election workers were tabulating the ballots inside, and trump supporters, at least some of them armed, were outside the building doing This. And some of what they were doing is calling out Election Workers by name. Workers had to be escorted in and out of the building by police. Arizona was one of the toughest locations in the country for intimidation and threats of violence directed at Election Workers, directed at Election Officials in particular. Arizona was also one of the States where fake republican electors signed fraudulent certificates falsely certifying that trump had won their State when in fact he lost their State. 11 arizona republican electors were deindicted earlier This year in that plot. The State republican party responded by choosing three of the people who were indicted to be delegates to the republican national convention. Thank you for your service. Now as the 2024 election approaches, The Post reported that Election Officials in at least three battleground States including arizona received nearly identical letters from the american conservative union, the group that puts on the cpac conference. They explained the american conservative unions plan to monitor Ballot Drop boxes and scrutinize those using them to vote. The letters prompted concerns from Election Officials about privacy and the possibility of voter intimidation. Adrian fontes is a former top Maricopa County elections official. Hes now arizonas secretary of State. He told The Post in response to that reporting, quote, the whole thing is an absurd sham to cover up direct efforts to intimidate voters. The efforts purpose, he said, is to intimidate voters, and we absolutely will not be cooperating with them. Joining us now is Arizona Secretary of State adrian fontes. Thank you so much for being here. Nice to meet you in person. Nice to see you too. Everybody in the country has eyes on arizona, worrying about the kinds of not just contentious Campaign Stuff that is a healthy part of our democracy, but worried about voter suppression, worried about certification of the vote, potential intimidation of voters and people running The System. What should the country know about arizona This year . The same thing about the rest of the Election Officials across the entire united States of america. Great civil servants who have been doing great work, and in arizona, they have been doing exceptionally good work for a long time. Theres been a little turnover, but you have the same character of folks. Neighbors, friends, relatives, american citizens just like you and me doing a great job. Thats what people can know about elections in arizona and in the united States of america. Were the ones who run our elections. When the criminal indictment was brought in arizona against republicans who had submitted their names as false electors, claiming that trump had won when in Fact Biden had won, that criminal prosecution meant serious consequences, potential consequences, indictment itself is a consequence, but really serious consequences for those people. The republican party responded by giving new, essentially honors and leadership positions to a significant number of those who had been indicted. That was a real message of support for what they had done. I wondered if you think that sort of political decision, that sort of leadership makes things harder. You can say it makes things harder but at the end of the day, our job is to just run our elections. We stick with the fundamentals, make sure everything is good to go and leave the campaigning and politics to the campaigns and politicians. I know what my duty is, to operate within those bounds. I have my political opinion too. I was at the dnc. Ill have my personal choices when it comes to voting but i can separate my duty from my opinion. And i think theres a lot of folks out there that kind of confuse the two, and so really i think were in a good space in arizona as far as Election Administration is concerned. But the message is that Other people send for their intended to get too involved in. What have you had to change in terms of training, preparation, resources, roles in order to make sure Election Administration is safe and done properly . How much time do we have . Since i was elected and took office in january of 2023, we have been revamping just about who came from the legislature or Other politicians. We didnt have Elections Administrators coming up from the county. We really had to look at our training and give the counties in arizona the resources they need from the perspective of look, you guys are the ones who are recruiting poll workers, the voter registers, the ones running the tabulation equipment. Were a regulator in arizona. Were Bottom Up State. Some States, the secretary of State is top down position and they run everything. Not here. So we have that different perspective which is informed everything we have done from working closely with cisa, the critical Infrastructure Security Administration agency under department of security, all The Way to injecting some Artificial Intelligence and some deep fakes into our Tabletop Exercises with elections officials, Law Enforcement officials, and even members of the media who we brought in so people can understand the processes better learn The System first and then try to tell the story on those deadlines. They can have that background information. Were working with the entire community of folks who have to deal with This to make sure everybody is prepared. I will say on that last point, that commitment, as a member of the media, obviously, i want us to have access, i want us to know as much as we can, but its actually a national Security Matter around elections that members of the media are well positioned and well informed to be able to tell people Whats Disinformation and whats real at a time when a lot of these wars are going to be fought in the information spot, having an informed media matters. And understand the complex processes, the laws and rules behind it, that doesnt happen immediately. When someone from out of town comes into phoenix or tucson, we need to make sure they have that base of information, just like our elections officials, just like our voters. We need to make sure folks are informed so they can perform their constitutional duties and we can just move on with the rest of our lives. Thank you for explaining This. And thank you for being here tonight. Good luck to you. I appreciate it. Adrian fontes is the secretary of State of the great State of arizona. Well be right back. Announcer what if you could whiten your teeth by simply brushing your teeth . Now you can with smileactives, the Teeth Whitening breakthrough that safely gets your teeth white and keeps them white every day just by brushing your teeth. Christine i never thought that whitening my teeth could be so easy. I just put the gel on the brush, the toothpaste on it, brush and i can see my white teeth. Announcer simply add smileactives to any toothpaste, and our Patented Polyclean Technology Activates into a powerful Micro Foam that penetrates into the Enamel Surface to safely lift and remove stains. Robert you need a simple way to withen your teeth without strips, without trays, without going to the dentist. And it was about time that a product was developed that you would be able to do that with just brushing. Announcer and now smileactives is even better. 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The difference is literally night and day. So now im always smiling or cheesing because now my teeth are much wither. Announcer This offer is not available in stores, so call or click now before the special buy one, get one free offer goes away. Protect against rsv with arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common Side Effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Arexvy is Number One in Rsv Vaccine shots. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Just recently there has been a flurry of Attention And Confirmation by the u. S. Government about what seems to be a new effort by the russian government to once again try to get trump back into the white house. It includes what prosecutors say was a kremlin financed 10 Million effort to pay protrump conservative online influencers. There was also an indictment of a former Trump Campaign adviser for his ties to a sanctioned State controlled russian media entity. This Trump Campaign adviser was indicted by the Justice Department a few days ago, but he was not arrested. The reason he was not arrested is because he is in russia. This recent news has been a effort on behalf of trump in This election in 2024. We all remember what they did in 2016 to help trump get elected in the first place. Its all very wellunderstood. What they did in between, though, in 2020 also to help trump is something that is less well remembered but its also of significant scale, significant audacity, and significant stupidity. And that very deeply stupid story is the story of my first Feature Documentary from my company, surprise inside. The film has just come out. Called from russia with lev, about an exmafia Connected Hustler named Lev Parnas Who helped Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani try to gin up fake attacks against Joe Biden and his son hunter. Lev parnas sat down with hunter biden, facetoface, to apologize to him. They had a frank and very emotional conversation. They had that conversation on camera for our film. Heres a little piece of it. You have to understand, at that time, i truly believed there was a deep State. I truly believed that you were up to some [ bleep ]. There was never any criminality. Thats the whole thing. There were basically innuendos. Conspiracy theories but no actual facts. The crazy part, i feel embarrassed, hunter, your Bank Records. How did they get my Bank Records . May Bank Records arent even on the computer. I got an amale from John Solomon who said his friends at the fbi got your records. I dont know where, how, what. So the fbi secretly subpoenas and got my Bank Records under the trump administration, handed them to John Solomon. And Rudy Giuliani recirculates them back into the doj and on to me. Absolutely. John solomon and fox had a whole system. From russia with lev. It premieres mere on msnbc friday, september 20th, at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. I really want you to watch it. I hope you like it. All right, more ahead tonight. Stay with us. Ay with us with dexcom g7, managing your diabetes just got easier. So, whats your Glucose Number right now . Good thing you dont need to fingerstick. Hows all that food affect your glucose . Oh, the answers on your phone. What if youre heading low at night . [notifications ringing] wow, it can alert you . and you can even track your goals. Manage your diabetes with confidence with dexcom g7. The most accurate cgm. Learn more at dexcom. Com. How much you can save. Tomorrow night is the president ial debate. Join me and the whole Msnbc Gang here for special coverage starting at 7 00 eastern. Now, the debate is hosted by abc news, but you can to watch the whole thing here on msnbc with us, and then well have highlights and analysis after. Again, the whole thing starts here at 7 00 p. M. Eastern tomorrow night. I will see you then. Way too early with Jonathan Lemire is up next. Vice president Kamala Harris and former president Donald Trump will meet for the first