Hello and welcome to worlds apart in medicine is one area where succumbing to authority is not just tolerate it but widely expected will still treat our doctors this priests possessing a secret knowledge thats imparted on day millenia old oath but the so many medical dog having been proven wrong in recent years can doctors even be sure that they are indeed doing no harm well to discuss that im now joined by peterson a prominent house longer and daughter of the canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson good to talk to you thank you very much for coming over thanks for having me on im excited to be here now technically speaking youre supposed to be mihailo not mikaela because your father the name the year after me. So in great detail most of my substance was yours would call me but now. Im not sure why my parents. To pronounce it like that but here i am do you know wat was it about me how gorbachev the 1st until i was president of the soviet union. Made your father whole his 1st born after him i do actually my dad was. A bit traumatized from the relationship the north america had with russia during the cold war and when the soviet union fell which was. Due to a large part of which i have there was a huge relief in north america from. The end of the war basically so to dad Mikhail Gorbachev represented somebody who. May have like saved north america from russia i dont claim to know better but having listened to a lot of your dads lectures i think he also may have seen gorbachev as somebody courageous enough to break with the mold and speak up against the prevailing orthodoxy reach i hope something that we can discuss today but before we do i have to ask you how is your dad doing right now dads doing well given the circumstances he had a terrible last month and he nearly died several times. Better than ive seen him in at least 6 months so im happy to be here anyway. I dont think there are many people who dont know who Jordan Peterson is at least among our audience but for those who havent been following his progress housewifes again you describe it in your own words what happened to him the bigger picture. We had we had a we have a number of Health Struggles in our family. Im not sure if theres a genetic predisposition towards auto immune problems but there seems to be and weve managed to keep it under control with a very strict diet. In 2017 there was a really terrible auto immune reaction to food and he went to our Family Doctor and was prescribed. Just to treat some of the autoimmune symptoms the anxiety caused by the other men sometimes and then it turns out that especially to biologically susceptible individuals it can be extremely difficult to get off of so he took it for a number of weeks and then became physically dependent which we werent aware of until earlier this year when my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer since then shes recovered from it fully. It was a horrible experience and his dose of was increased and we realized he was experiencing not only a paradoxical reaction which is when the medication does the opposite of what its supposed to but he had also become physically dependent so we tried to get out he tried to get off of it or number of time to end just experienced horrific withdrawal and the more research weve done into this benzodiazepine problem the more apparent it has become that this isnt that unusual for people now from what i know these drug. Long acting benzo day as have been that your father was prescribed experimentally used in russia for treating. And while it is a controlled substance its nog thought of as it is the 6th really dangerous drug its a given to children my concern is whether you or how can you be sure that the russians have the expertise to you when somebody you know all of these drug we werent actually what we went to a number of places in north america that thought they could successfully when somebody off of this drug but if your experience and greely really severe physical dependence even staying at the same dose some time isnt tolerated because of something called into a dose withdrawal which means the body goes into withdrawal in between doses so we looked all over the world for someplace that would do. A benzodiazepine detox. Which is just stopping cold turkey which is fairly dangerous and extremely unpleasant and. We couldnt really find anyplace that would do that certainly not in north america we found a place here and we found a place in serbia and because my husband speaks russian going to russia seemed like a better option but we it was like a terrifying decision to make because. No offense to russia but choosing russia as a place to go for Health Treatment isnt something somebody from north america would usually do well probably because if youre serious about this going to reach and not necessarily true yes now these heroic narrative you know taking on your witnesses had on you know 5 being your limitations is a big part of mr petersons philosophy and its a good strategy in many cases i relied on it myself but i dont think it works all the time do i understand correctly that this condition was made worse much worse by essentially being too heroic about it. Being cold turkey as you say rather than trying to win. All more slowly. Not exactly so he initially stopped taking it. Because he wasnt aware of the physical dependence so he was actually told by Somebody Just to stop and stopped that wasnt a good idea the winning down didnt work he couldnt tolerate that so coming here to the detox was our last option really i wouldnt necessarily put it into a. Narrative or not it it was really the only way we could figure out how to get this medication out of the system because of the immune response it was adding to it now judging from your instagram youve been here since early january with your family immediate family your husband your daughter your daughter obviously. What about. How is she doing and how is she coping with mr petersons how fish shoes well this has been just terribly stressful for our entire family its its been a horrible few months so shes shes one of the strongest people and she might be the strongest person i know. Managed to deal with my Health Struggles and having a kid thats sick. Must be just awful man is. My dads Health Struggles so while recovering very very serious diagnosis nearly died in the summer a number of times so shes doing as well as can be expected and like i said shes probably the strongest person right now i wish your family all the best and i think these are deal in a very direct way putting to detach. What your father has been thinking and talking about all these years that you know these mythical idea of venturing into the bally of the beast in fact several when i was thinking about a situation its almost like you know being captured by a t. Rex while running away from a dragon and i wonder when did you realize what did it take for you to realize the nature of danger has actually changed and you now need to be more concerned about your died down about your mom probably september or august list switched from focus and well my mom they recovered in august and she recovered and then was almost back to other than being traumatized from her experience she looked like she was fairly back to normal right away and then yeah we immediately switched to dealing with with dads Health Problems. Now speaking about this current. Fighting the physical dependence on the drug your father was prescribed to deal with or they doze off which was increased to deal with your mothers illness from what. To describe the facts in the here were seemed to be far more excruciating then you know even the fear of losing the grief the actual grief of losing a loved one deep he know what he was getting into no no. We took a surprise for a decade and a half to treat this depression that was caused by auto immune issues that was treated with diet so when he was prescribed an antianxiety medication at a low dose it wasnt something that rung any warning bells you know to use your fathers terminology its the typical 1000 bargain the when you take a collateral on your soul to relieve a little bit of pain right now only to be chained in slave by it for what seems like an internal the only difference i guess is that our doctors are no it is just awful as they are supposed to lead us through an informed choice for each i guess was not the vailable to him my question to you is do you attribute that to his. Biology because you guys do have a number of rare conditions running your in your family or is it more Systemic Risk driving the drugs the may relieve the pain in the moment but will certainly come back to you with more pain afterwards i think i think its both i think that the reaction dad had was extremely severe but ive had hundreds and hundreds of people reach out telling me theyve had the same experience with benzodiazepines so i think that theres a huge misunderstanding about the dangers of physical dependence regarding specifically this class of drugs so id say well its a mix of both genetics and systemic problems with doctors not informed about how dangerous these drugs can me do you think its just not being informed or do you think there is economic interest in. Prescribing the medicine. Produce a lot of profit for pharmaceutical companies but do not necessarily produce the desired effect for the people who are taking them. Id like to believe that its just uninformed but i know in north america the medical industry is heavily. If you go to medical school out of the courses and take are backed by the pharmaceutical companies so i think people who are meaning well go to med school medical school and are perhaps taught by the wrong people and then end up over prescribing part of the reason without russia was a good option as because the medical system here isnt as backed by farmer so im thing is as it is in north america well its still a bag its to some extent certainly i hope yo yo hopes to realize that the best but i would be skeptical myself because i mean capitalism is a system im in russia is a capitalist society right now so. Their ways of inserting you know putting Bad Influence on the government on the doctor is you know work areas as well while from from what weve seen its not nearly as bad as it is north america ok both to go we have to take a very short break now well be back in just a few moments states. The outbreak and spread of the corona virus has become a black swan event for the Global Economy is no longer whether the u. S. And other economies will slip into recession the question now is how long the recession will last its going to get worse before it gets better. Welcome back to worlds apart with Micaela Peterson and. Im going to end house longer daughter of the canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson because before the break we touched on this issue of. Medical authority and trusting medical advice reach many people dont question given your familys extensive history in this round what do you think is a responsible stance when it comes to medical advise your own how. I think how much should you trust me how much should you mistrust well i dont trust medical authority at all ever and the reason for that is i had this core of water main disorder growing up and it turns out it was completely alleviated with very drastic dietary measures and i went to a number of doctors to discuss what happened to me and i was basically laughed at like that has nothing to do with autoimmune disorders. Diet has nothing do with Mental Health disorders and Mental Health arent associated and i kind of over the years learnt that everything ive been told and everything i believed in regarding the medical community was wrong and harmful so my suggestion to people who have Health Issues they cant figure out if theyre going to see a medical professional and theyve been going for 10 years and theyre still in the same place they should probably take it upon themselves Start Testing things out testing out diet testing out exercise and try and figure out things on their own i think its safer being told its your responsibility to fix your health and not your doctors than it is going to somebody else for tells you they can fix you. I think its pretty mind boggling ols revealing that you know the amount of pain dysfunction that your body had to go through for like 2 decades was cured to be a good few months of dietary changes but before we discuss your particular diet i want to dwell on this particular point we are what we eat because hypocrisy is came up with 20. 500 years ago and the many people still leave eat as if it doesnt apply to them why do you thing thats the key i think its a mess education i know my diet was especially when i went off to university and in north america it was like orrible i was surviving off of you know instant noodles and things because it was fast but i had no idea that what i ate would affect me in the way it did i i bought into the calories in calories out. Now i dont you know it has some truth to it but i dont agree with so i say mr doesnt want a straightforward suggestion oh its certainly not a straight forward you are a little bit of biological as you said you have a very rare condition you were diagnosed with with. A thread history when you were a kid you had hip replacement a thing of the age of half an ankle 17. Also pretty unusual and. When people hear you say that the medical rude didnt work for me its very tempting for them to say that you know shes a biological curiosity shes an exception and her struggles and achievements dull and the playa to me is not the case no not from what ive seen so i 1st i thought when i 1st started researching and trying to figure out my Health Problems i went down the genetics route because i figured it was something in my family there wasnt anything obvious we dont have any well it wasnt anything obvious. So i started publishing them flog and talking to people and testing my diet or suggesting dietary changes to Family Friends people online and ive seen hundreds and hundreds of people recover from illnesses that generally arent as severe as mine because like you said mine was abnormally severe but even smaller issues just like joint pain or the need to lose 30 pounds or being 15 daal the time seems to be helped by dietary intervention you know its. Its hard not to reference. Talking to petitions daughter but karl you have a very interesting view all but particularly psychopathology and rather than seeing it as something that needs to be magic heated right away he actually too good for the body signaling system that points to whats wrong and i tend to think about people with really are old though more frequent conditions like yourself as old as signals pointing to whats wrong with the. Entire public. House sector what do you think about it all hopefully i mean i one point my brother asked like was it worth it you had to have your hip replacement your ankle replaced i was miserably depressed for most of my life and then i ended up getting rashes like i was really ill and dying. But the recovery ive seen so many other people making the awareness i can bring to the fact that people can take horrible Health Problems and potentially fix themselves has made the entire experience worth it you dont remember pain very much and its all about the way you frame it i mean on some level i think you can take an argument that you were lucky to have these very discomforting disease early in life so that you can have the rest of your life in relative how they had no 1st as opposed to many other people who were eating crab for the 1st half of their life until its way too late to change and i completely agree with it and ive actually thought about that like if i wasnt suffering as badly as i was suffering i probably wouldnt have had the willpower to make the changes i need to make to get better and i could have ended up you know 50 and. Just slowly declining and being ill for the last you know 40 years of my life and because i was so ill young i do look at it that way it may have been severe enough to get me to change things early enough that i can be healthy for the rest of my life which will be leaving him you know whats driving the thought it is that its actually. So the potential scenario is the actual scenario because metabolic disorders are the leading cause of mortality globally and you certainly do not need to have a rare condition like yourself to realize that and whats even more troubling is that that mortality is preceded by a lot of pain and discomfort you know diabetes or alzheimers a terrible disease not only on yourself but also on the your loved ones and you know the way you accumulate them is by years and years of eating foods that you think nourishing you but in fact doing a lot of harm to your body now i agree there are definitely ways to avoid that and i was probably lucky to figure out that last that ive been able to share it with people now speaking about the ways to avoid it if you are a strict carnivore you dont consume anything beyond pastured meat salt and water. Everyone. So the way i would look at this diet is contrary to what weve been told media is absorbed in the small intestine and. For people with especially with gut disorders is actually a very easy way to digest food plants naturally have a number of like natural pesticides just to keep bugs from eating them and people with metabolic disorders potentially and autoimmune disorders are more can be more reactive to those proteins theyre in plants so giving your gut a rest for a while might be a way to thats what im hoping with me is you heal the gut damage and then slowly reintroduce other foods which you do look forward to introducing out of foods because i hear yeah i do i mean so ive been doing only meat since december 2017 and i dont have cravings for other foods but socially its awkward for sure and i guess is probably mostly the social part that i miss because if you go out for dinner you know eating one thing isnt really a problem for me but the social aspect is weird and im not 100 percent certain that only eating meat for everybody is the right way to go i think its a really good way to heal your guide and then people should probably test things out slowly on those of us variety i mean in the pleasure that one derives from. The different kinds of food when so initially i didnt go straight to all meat i went to a very low carb diet where i was eating a limited fruit meat and vegetables and that worked for a number of years. I had more cravings for variety on that diet than i do on my diet now for some reason cutting the plants have gotten rid of the plant cravings now you often talk about the difference between being alive and a friend who owns the world and a sheep who is told what to do you serves as a floater. I understand the matter for a bit isnt that huge divisive sort of verses that kind of frame that many people try to assign to your own father saying that he is. Representing some group of people against the other group of people oh i dont i dont mean to represent plant based eaters that isnt what i meant but i can tell i can see how it came across as that i just meant its up to people to take their responsibility to not be a follower of information that isnt necessarily true they should just think dont trust dont trust what you read just because it comes from an authoritative thing. That leads me to a question that there would really love your father answer but im sure you have an opinion on god the free market is thought to be a prerequisite for democracy and we have everything we have talked about today is a product of free market people are addicted to eating crab because with companies can influence nutritional guidelines and because they can produce food that preys on the brains reward circuitry people are prescribed very expensive drugs we choose to see is not really proven because pharmaceutical companies can have ways of exerting influence isnt the free market just another form of Charlie Terry and. Im for the free market regardless of the fact that theres clearly a health. Thats partly due to it. I think i dont see a better option and i honestly think the only way to counteract that is to educate yourself and stay aware that just because youre listening to an authoritative figure doesnt mean they know what theyre talking about. Your father likes quoting alexander solzhenitsyn. The line dividing good and evil caught through the heart of every human being and i guess in these they may have caused that directly through your plate more specifically through your mouth because what you put in there whether its food or drug can greatly influence your choices and as you said why the weights you gave diaries through what you call Citizen Science i wonder though how do you approach it how do you separate the preferred weed from from the chaff as bad of a matter for it as it is for our gluten free lifestyle so yeah well 1st i was completely obsessed with when i 1st started researching i was completely obsessed with whether or not articles i was reading were. Scientific and then after you know 8 years of searching and finally putting my auto immune disorder and i figured the actual best way to do science on your body is to test things out on yourself so part of the reason this lion diet ruminant meat salt water diet works is because you can go to a baseline of food and reintroduce foods in one by one to actually see what your react until. And i think that ends up being more scientific then epidemiological studies 1st say its interesting well thank you very much for sharing your wisdoms i dont know if you have had the chance to watch your fathers the lectures as much as i have but russia features prominently very as the country that has experimented a lot with meaning and controlled the humane themes both for him and for his intellectual hero. Carl gustav jung and i really hope that he can rediscover both of those faculties meaning control it while being here in moscow thank you very much for coming and best of luck to you thank you thank you for having me thank you for watching hope to see you again next sunday here on worlds apart. Park. City on. How. When i love being in this is a no fly zone incident i dont know yet but one of my the guys i mean does. The love the missing mom of the swing going to me because im a Strong Enough sharing i dont. Think some emotions are. Very im certain. Groups last days. 30. Rock up and the baby had i fever of 380. 30 were hoping thats. Ok. Headline stories residents in moscow will for all next week need Digital Printing mission to travel around the city as the nurse a. Medical workers ive been speaking to about the efforts to stay on top. Are you scared of working here why what is the point of things can change anything today just coming to work when i go home i start thinking i should have stayed longer. Factions take a devastating toll on care homes across europe with residents dying without treatment or their families able to say the director of tarmon home in italy