Transcripts For RT 20240703

Being bordered by 2 mellow neighbors and showed that by 2 vast oceans this unique position allows america to remitted benefits, but is it now living it down the hill by making it both ignorant and arrogant . Both to discuss it, im now joined by philip gerald, the executive director of the council for the National Interest and a former Intelligence Officer for the c. I a mr. Drowsy is great to talk to you. Thank you very much for being available. Well, thank you for having me are now youve been a very vocal critic of the american war machine, not only on ethical but also practical drones because its draining the countrys resources and a skewering is a real authentic social needs. And you often ask the question of what is the us National Interest in pursuing all those wars . And i want to start by asking, whats your old answer to these things . The rhetorical question . Well, i think the National Interest of the United States is actually pretty clear that its probably like of most of the country. So in terms of, when it has good leaders, it tries to make the lives of the people who are citizens better improve their, their finances, enabled them to have more freedom. And uh, what is a bad leader . We have just the opposite. They look for wars as an excuse for not having to answer any of those questions about what the industry should be. You know, there was a time when an American Dream was very appealing to the rest of the world. It had the lot of soft power, at least when i was younger. But right now i dont think it has any appeal or any, any americans actually believe and believe in that the end. If you look at the hard data, economic data, social that its clear that as you know the, the, the resources, im not where the priorities are. And i want to ask you, why do you think the americans, people or the American People have been going along with that for too long . Because i think even the russians would not put off with the, you know, that real concerns with being put on the back burner for so long. Well, i think its a simple answer actually that the American People are basically lied to regularly, both by the government and by the media. Now the media is the important part of this equation because when the media is doing its job is trying to okay, should be trying to find out what the government is doing. Thats wrong. But we havent had that in quite a while. And to, to, to answer the other part of the question, id say, very few people aspire to be an american anymore, or could come to the United States. This is a dramatic turn around in the last 30 or 40 years. Now theyve been a series of conflicts, big and small, that drained american resources, and the also killed many people around the world and lead to the unprecedented number of refugees and internally displaced people. We actually have a, he managed his record that at this point and just recently president biden. Um, whats trying like if hes there were some reports of he was interested in the scribing himself more war powers. Then i see with a for, to president when he served as a senator, how do you understand that . Is there any other, you know, dream war . Thats how it hasnt been spoiled up until now. Uh, china, apparently. Uh, the thing is that uh that was that statement by it was probably one of the most dangerous statements ive seen to come out of the lips of an american uh, head of state. He basically said that it was up to him using his judgment of what kind of threat was out there. Theres started a war whenever he want it. And this is a contrary to the Us Constitution for one thing. And its even contrary to the war powers act that was passed out to vietnam. So this is a real scary statement. And he really wasnt picking the task by it, by the media or anyone else. Now i think what makes us even scarier and i dont, i dont intend to be disrespectful of his age. But its, i think, pretty evident to anyone who sees present in bite and making income to remark that his cognitive capacity is somewhat compromised. I mean, like it, its hard to argue that how do you understand the Decision Making process in washington at this point . Who are those people who are making those Vital Decisions . Not just some of the issues of war and peace, but actually on the issues of the existence of humanity. Because if they uh, you know, launch a war or a limited operation against china. Thats good. The group has very quickly. Yeah. It, it could, and it would, i think there is no question. China is no clear on this is the United States and a number of other countries. And the fact that once you start, you know, taking the genie out of the bottle. And the genie being Nuclear Weapons, it is the most catastrophe level for the human race very quickly. And thats why this kind of stuff is very dangerous. Talk. It should, it should not be allowed. And when people come out with these lies, they should be contested immediately. Now, what bothers me is that a like, lets say iraq, iran or syria. So where the United States can do things with impunity. It pretty much russia in china on different sort of adversarys. I mean, as you mentioned there, nuclear arms and the some experts believe that russia for one has a superior and Nuclear Capacity capabilities through the United States. At the moment. Do you think people in washington, wherever those Decision Makers are actually understand that theres a different caliber of adverse surveys that they choose to pick up her bottle with at this point . Yeah, so obvious to people like you and myself. Cool. Well, follow the news and follow the stories and follow what is going on in various parts of the world. But uh, thats precisely the case. This is no longer uh, not. There was a new contact a while ago, who said every once in a while, like every 10 years United States has to what type of small country to maintain his credibility. Well, that was crazy that but now its not crazy when youre talking about nuclear arch. Now i mentioned syria, and i remember when the Russian Military operation is in syria began, i happen to be at the u. S. Embassy here, reception. Seeing the American Ambassador of the time, john, uh, south few mean with anger and does believe the news that the russians with some verified our jobs to syria at the invitation of the assad government. And i wonder if that was a new way of probably used to the current ukrainian conflict, the russians allowing themselves to do what they thought was right at the moment. Im going so explicitly against the american preferences well of my own personal preferences are 4 countries not to invade other countries for under any pretext, unless there is a palpable threat coming from that other country. Now. So do United States has done this numerous times and it only seems to be annoyed by this kind of practice, what the russians are doing. Im not sure we can equate the russians and the americans here because he mentioned the palpable threat. And i think the russian leadership has been pretty explicit and that the main goal of inter intervening in sierra was not to sort of fly the americans and contest the global leadership. But actually the Counter Terrorism threat them you being a Counter Terror server was an expert the for so many years. Dont you think that was a legitimate argument that you know, in any country, almost any country that the United States gets a, gets itself involved in a competitor place . We have a problem of terrorism, of drug trafficking, weapons traffic, et cetera. Well see the problem is you could use the arguments 2 ways and uh, the United States. Is it the syria way . Precisely the same argument that russia was using to enter into the country and supported the government. Now the United States calling is that its there to destroy isis. But of course, it isnt now explained how many years and they have at the store. And i says yet, and i think its legitimate that russia, as an ally of the syrian government, which is a legitimate government, it should be able to assist in ally of the United States. On the other hand, uses the same argument. The terrorism are getting to justify ones is doing and i think. Ringback in both cases, you have to look very carefully get out legitimate. The argument really is, i know that a Counter Intelligence cooperation between most going to washington continued for some time, even after the bilateral relationship took a turn for the worse. As far as you know, is it still ongoing and do you think its possible to revive it in any shape or form in the offensive way that will of benefit the the security of both countries and both people . Well, i think the professionals who work for the intelligence agencies and also in the military on both sides, are quite willing to establish some kind of. So if youre dialogue where the issue is that could explode and turn into a world war, can be dealt with in a diplomatic way. I think theyre quite willing to do that. The problem is the politicians who are at the top of the systems and particularly in the United States where we have politicians that really are rob ignite, of the major issues that theyre confronting in a kind of casual way. I get a job, im right now really wants to get re elected 24 and he wants to look like a strong war time president. Thats not a good say. Its not mr jerome that you describe them as ignorant of a truly ignorance or arrogant because i mean with all due respect, our countries have a history of rivalry at the end, the most a t n. Do we actually know each other as un . No other service, so were both nuclear are the countries and the, you know, those a serious things. But i think one difference is that during the cold war there was some territory of the sort of treatment over each other as equals. Do you think the United States treats roster china, or any other country as a, as a legitimate rather this point of time . Well i think they, they would probably understand it if it goes too far and we have a nuclear war, you know, they could get hurt. But i think up to that point they are arian in the theyre thinking that they what would happen because they are carefully managing the situation and they have a great deal of power that they have at their fingers. And so i think its a, its a, its a difficult question, but i think there are, during the cold war there were, there were a lot of sensible people who actually made sure that it never went to that point. Im not so sure we have those people in the car right now. Ive heard one very respect in the russian analyst who by the way, it was the and the owner of the doctor and several american universities. When the relationship was a functional, he said thats one thing that changes the americans totally lost fear of the protective capacity that comes to be a tier. Because if you are fearful you, you think twice about the, you know, cost benefit about the means and the goals. Do you think thats true, that the American Administration at least, has lost any fear or far what may come out as a result of its actions . Interestingly enough, i think the answer to that is, is kind of divided. I think the, the, the military people are, are conscious of what is on the table. I think its the others who are pushing for these wars. Can it be like the tony blinking state department of victoria doland state department . These are the real warmongers. These are people who never served in the military and have no idea of just went through talking about so its a better way to find the house. I think i say, well, uh mr. Jerone, we have to take him very short break right down. But we will be back in just a few moments station the most affordable, cuz it was business. And you put in the 3 of the daily, those shows, i know mary, comes green. Well just go through with this discussion of curriculum. And ill see if i can provide you with this test option. Sure, ruckel beam was not, im sure of the different student info, which of course and yet you throw in the probably just a moment that was true. Obviously, through your deos that i sent to you yesterday, isaac at the top. So usually im looking at might be studies leaning towards a flush to for me to on, on, on the, to the if we can, we can load it mostly just some of the posting, sustainable. They wont, because of this new way to possible do. Full color, was there any dont know which these are i know for the dont or is i can exist to do given the other than that, were going to these best opinion pronounced has come up with the the welcome back to all the parts this phillips around the executive director of the council for the National Interest and a former Intelligence Officer with b. C. I a, now, mr. Gerald before the break, really, it talks about how many people, its of the official american discourse on the work would be including the conflicts in ukraine. And i think what im seeing and hearing right now from the American Media is just the i think its all based on the assumption that the russians are able full stop. And one doesnt need to understand either the russians uh, thinking about why this war happened, or even in this down there, the russian history reach is, is deeply insecure when it comes to. Busy war because unlike you, we have for many wars with many neighbors and for us providing force our security is it is a very sensitive subject. Do you think the American People actually understand . So what is a steak for, for the russians in this war . Well they, they dont understand it. And the reason that they dont understand it is that because the, the media has basically been totally on the side of binding and the administration where they say that, well, if russia takes ukraine, now theyre going to take the Baltic States the theyre going to take paul the all of which is ridiculous, and this is what the American Public is hearing. They uh, uh, uh your report and i think has spelled out very clearly why russia intervened as a lot of it makes perfect sense. And, but this is not what the American Public is hearing. Unfortunately, you know, you mentioned this very bizarre idea that if russia prevails in the ukraine, then you know, its a separate question of what that means. Because i think for why the russian doesnt have the resources to support the country with a hostile population. So im not quite sure that the russia is really eager to take over in ukraine. But this whole argument that if russia wins somewhere that its going to expand, its based on the idea of an irish actually has the resources to do all of those work. Whereas in fact, i think the russian leadership has been very much focused on making sure that domestically people do not software that social programs are functioning thing that lives in is improving. The people able to do business that they level of business and personal and Political Freedom is expanded. Uh and you know, it got me thinking about whether the americans are so insensitive to russia to china and many other countries because they have a or they are failing at their own American Dream. Because without the conflict in ukraine, both the russians and the chinese are pursuing the national destinies in a very focused way, you know, being mindful of what to spend on the war and want to spend on development. It seems that the americans from what we have been discussing, have a lot of capacity to you know, they have a focus in both. Yeah, i think i think youre correct in saying that we owe it to what comes down or what comes across to me is, is very much the culture of a country. And a country will either go with a culture which defines it and, and kind of dictates what kind of actions it will take, or it gets away from that. I think the United States has gotten away from being a culture from being the country in that sense. We are technically for, im sure you know bankrupt because of all the spending of these wars and military costs, which we will never get back in people notice, but they, they dont know why its so and its because weve lost our sense of purpose, our sense of culture, and thats what i believe. Can i ask you specifically about the brand . Because uh, i remember a few years ago during the obama administration, the us policy and ukraine was about creating another clause i rushed to the russians could look at get jealous off and the sort of get the read of the own government, at least thats how the but ministration officials articulated ed, how do you understand the us policy visiting ukraine at this point . What is the ukraine for washington right now . If you go by what they are saying of the white house and kind of gone, you would hear them saying that this is done to we can russia to refer to prevent russia probably coming to a challenge. And it sends a signal to china not to follow the same path. And theres a great deal of concern for in washington for, for countries that are competitors. And i dont think theres anything wrong with the competition. I think the competition between russia and china offered different styles of government for different styles of country is a good thing. And um, but this is the kind of a paranoid thinking that i prevails in washington. And its really unfortunate. I think mr. Gerald did, there is also a huge difference between competition and confrontation, because competition, you know, it encourages development and innovation, but confrontation costs a lot of money. When you say that the United States is after wicking russia, do you think these people have actually calculated in like the material terms . What its going to take, and whats it going to cost the american text there . Because russia, after all, is the largest country in geographic terms. And again, as we mentioned, it has a pretty strong military. It has the for middle Nuclear Weapons and you know, its population is also not about to yield to, you know, Decision Makers in washington. Oh, i agree. Yeah, i dont think why should you too, as a, i would add to your list of, of actually do its a rush as an a tremendous natural resources. Its a, its definitely a, a, uh, whatever the United States would want to do to diminish it or confront it. Its going to be a major power, whether you like it or not. And the same goes for china. That the trick is to not come from other countries that are competitor competitors and to work with them. And this used to be the job with diplomacy, but the United States has per gotten that now uh, going back to ukraine uh the ukrainians. Uh and im myself half of your premiums and have relatives there, so im not a, im years there to them. But i think when you look at their political system and they like to talk about independence. But when it comes to self sufficiency, di, historic record is not very strong. In fact, the most problems between the brochure and your brain politically erupt. It after russia try to move to market prices for its oil and gas. And your premiums didnt like it because for years they had been receiving, you know, reach russias resources, a subsidized level. And as you have written at this point of time, the us treasury is the main source of the ukraines national budget. But the is the resources, they use treasure as resources. I also know its unlimited. How long do you think the United States will be able to back roll your brain in such a way . I would, if i had to make a prediction, i would predict that the United States will try to keep this war going until or election next year. Because again, buying his group around him are trying to play the card that United States is being strong. Its sending a signal and its a, its so looking out for the security of the American People and the country in general and the course and so nonsense. This is all politics. And i said, im afraid thats the good, the closest to a realistic assessment of what this is about and how want me to. Ready go on. I think both russia in china have gone through the periods of, lets say, National Humiliation in china. There was a century of simulation in russia. We also have uh, a previous humbling period after the collapse of the soviet union. And, you know, trying to pull ourselves as a society, as a culture, as a state from a very difficult position. And i think to some extent, to significant extent, we have succeeded. What do you think the american humbling would look like . I am not having any wishes here. Im just curious about how do you think the American Society can transform itself to sort of get rid of this vested interest, that have misplaced National Priorities for so long ive, i rather suspected the direction that all of this is going in will bring about Something Like an economic collapse, sort of like what happened to russia after the soviet union. And mr. Yelton was in charge of, well, and the country was loaded by europeans and americans. It wont be exactly in that form, but the, uh, the economy is going in a very bad direction. The data, the death level is beyond any kind of recovery. And sooner or later this is all going to come home. And when it does, there will be time for a i hope, peaceful revolution in the United States to change the way we think. And the way our politics work reminds me of the, with the phrase, the american officials like to repeat that. What happens in the ukraine will have a direct impact on the strength of the heroes democracy. And i wonder if they actually have a true sense, the sort of foreboding of premonition. Uh, not so much about the state of us democracy because i think its quite contested. But about the the use governing system thats what will happen in the ukraine. Villa ultimately decide the future of the american system as just exist today. Yeah, i think one of the things that i find interesting is the fact that the probably the one thing that ukraine leads the world in political corruption. And if there is a country behind it that the one i look at, its the way the United States. So for political system has been corrupted by special interest, but people with agendas, or do you need is a little money. I think one on one other thing that um is in common between ukrainians, the political ukrainians, and the political americans. Is this believe the perception is reality based old mentor . I think that it was coined by one of the republican advisors of ronald reagan, if im not mistaken for a while its work. But uh, do you think we, how it will sooner or later catch up with it was people in washington, im sure its already catching up with the ordinary folks around the United States. But do you think they can realize the danger that for themselves a level for the country before its delayed . Well, lets put it this way. They should recognize the danger of how it will happen or when it will happen. Kind of depends on, on the other factors and at this time of either the war and ukraine is going to be a success for the buying white house and that they will come out will be good for that. Or its going to be catastrophe. And there will be a lot of people thinking about we have to do something about this. So even though they come up looking good, i mean, uh she has, she can have a 2nd term. But though the question i think still remains, whether she will do anything for his country or for his people to address many of the issues that we have discussed today. One last question i want to ask you about when its finally over, whatever it is and whatever in whatever form, if it may be, if do you think the russians and americans can be not friends, but most people, again, do you think i will ever be able to travel back in the United States and you will be, well, i think youre actually able to come to russia. Russia has not limited to the visa issuing to the american producing russia and america with ever and young call parade. The mutual and uh, you know, respectful basis. Well, i coverage on my own experience. Ive been to russia twice. Ive been to Saint Petersburg and ive been to, uh to uh, moscow when the party had its trent down over 3 was a paper. And um, uh i was, i was a former Intelligence Officer, they loved me and there was no problem. I knew many k g b officers when i worked overseas in europe in the middle east. And we got along just fine. I would say, you know, there are people out there who want to fix this, and there are people out there who want to make sure that there is a good future for both russia and the United States. And for china. And we have to find the we have to put them in positions of authority where they will make things change. Well on this hopeful note, we have to leave it a. Thank you very much, mr. Drove it for sharing your expertise with us today. Well, thank you for having me on. Thank you for watching. Poked us here again on the worlds a part of the israel conduct some massive overnight on bottom of garza as 5 minutes. And then yahoo says the 1st phase of the war is over. As most of what he calls and any forces of destroying the israels head by a barrels of rockets fired by how boss itself and fires and debris throughout the streets of the conflicts now and who is it . The 2nd and the blame game already cut out of choosing israel of starting the conflict with several arab states rallying and supported pilot stein. While western powers, including america, condemned the palace opinion side for the volume