The movie story. I understand that this is directors script. Yes, thats just what we called it, redone. Well, kinopois was such a genre in a film story, he has a whole speech here. He says that we lived here people, lets love each other, because i love you, otherwise we live like spiders in a jar, but a widely russian person, who is still with my deepest love for shukshi, well, very far away. The thing is that no, by the way, it wasnt even important. Ill tell you why, because he is himself. In a sense, about putin in his relationship with himself these karamazovs are significantly different from each other. I will take upon myself such a careless, and possibility to say, yes, because yes, let you not allow and nevertheless, because he doesnt have to narrow it down. He narrowed himself down, you know, he himself, he came to the point that he organized a holiday. This is tinsel. Hes the one who says that this is tinsel. He understands that this is not the only thing. What can he rely on . This is such a panthetic motif associated with birch trees, which he also followed for a long time. After all, this is also three times. This is very thoughtful dramaturgy. At first he goes out and tries to talk to them, but he cant because the crow is bothering him. If you remember, the second time he is bothered by any of his conversations, and the first husband, and he says, and what vasilisa is growing up, its time to give birth, then there is also such a powerful erotic motive, he is trying to connect with it, but this is all life, and find inner life in its everyday manifestations. In its life manifestations, but this is not life, the inner life of which he cannot get to the bottom of. Today we gathered our thoughts on about vasily makarovichs kalina red. Shukshina lev maratovich karakhan Sergey Vladimirovich vereikin. I am vladimir in the league, we are continuing. Can we say that, by and large, it is also surprising . Here are more than one gospel story of the prodigal son and the repentant thief. Its all about the prodigal son, and everything is clear. Although, again, this is what we started talking about the mixing of real history and screen ones, yes, as if, if we remember the fate of, uh, the heroine, this one, who played, well, she didnt actually play, she was talking about herself. Uh, yes, which mother yes, this is a document, by the way, an amazing thing. Yes, how organic it looks with documentary sound. Yes , that is, for me, in this sense, this is exactly the biblical story of the prodigal son, because she perceived that her wife, as you know, was extremely worried about her own. Uh, when he died, uh, and in principle, probably, was called son and and for her, really. The prodigal son who went away. We always speak from our sons side. Yes, now from the outside. Actually, in this case, mothers. And for this return took place. She had never seen sural. Eh, the missing person was not there, the one who returned to her. Uh, about the robber here. I probably agree with album aratovich here, in general, but the robber is not so obvious. That is, he actually rewatched it for me a lot, perhaps thats why the first part of the film is about robbers. She s like, forgive me, the late gaidai, but in general, its more likely filmed in his vein. Yes, here this is uh hmm, such a deliberate side, thieves, raspberry. Eh, heres a berliera again the one mentioned is so deliberate. And even if you remember the episode when, after the raspberries , the police are chasing them, and he hides on the embankment of the film. Yes, the policemen, like in the cartoon, and shukshin himself, he makes such moves with his feet. Eh, well, its more like how the heroes Ivan Vasilyevich changes his profession, thats a step back, that is, we remembered, why yes to himself, that is, there is this robber, he s some kind of not very real, well, for me this is not a story at all. Eh, well, it seems to me that in every good movie you can find angel story, because there is a type. Therefore, for me there are stories here, yes, and there is a gospel story, but here there is a very shukshin story, a story about how a person never found himself and never got to himself. This race in width is no good. Uh, how to say, then uh in uh razin already in the very novel that he wrote. Uh, width turns into latitude. This is a little different , but its still a concept. Well, in personal life, the specifics of life, but to feel is not something that cannot be touched with the hands of spiritual matter. He couldnt, he tried. This person is in search, of course, there is no search there either, but this is not an open ending. This ending is tragic, because this is a man who has reached a dead end in his search. That s the trouble, and if its in 1974, its 1973, 1974, tarkovsky takes off the mirror. By the way, they are classmates. Yes, there was a slightly different classmate of shukshina filming with him. Overall, the course was amazing. Yes, yes, theres also saltykov meta, whoever didnt have it there, and tarkovs tarkovsky has a completely different one the outcome there is that the hero dies, because he is faced with such vital material from which it is impossible not to die, but he dies in order to live and he lets go of this bird, which flies away; well, maybe such a direct symbol is too even for tarkovsky. Yes , the holy spirit, but he speaks and is almost inaudible. I have several times. Eh, when i looked at the pictures several times for the first time, i didnt notice these words at all. He says everything will be fine. He discovers new life what Arseny Tarkovsky in his poem, which life sounds in this film, life is precisely what it says, that there is still life, life is not only life, but shukshins hero is stuck in life. He didnt feel this life, he didnt discover his tragedy in this, because , well, lets say this. Yes, here is the classic picture of gadar on his last breath, and there is a famous dialogue, uh, with patricia, which is conducted by the hero played by belmondo on the map and she asks him. What do you choose sadness or death . He says i choose death over sadness. Its a compromise. Thats the whole point, which for prokudin is an existential choice. I completely choose there is no god. And lets go, but here, and it is impossible to make an existential choice, because for him death is a compromise, he is a loser hero. Heres the thing, he was maximalist and theres an amazing scene where hes on a, uh , hydrofoil. How long is this no called . Listen, maybe, uh, we can sneak him away. This is a thought, yes, drag a hydrofoil, he is a wide man, but he cant do this latitude, but he cant do this latitude place it in some kind of internal message in a spiritual movement. He is trying to do it nonetheless. Yes, at the same time, this is the repentant of his words, yes, when god forgive and right there, when he says, give me time. This sounds kind of crazy. He says, at least let my hair grow back. Yes. What does your voice have to do with it . Well, its like uh the man who speaks. Yes, i want to go to church, but tomorrow i will go tomorrow. Well, it seems like this is all putting it back. This is, as it were , the morok of the sixties, by the way, dear friends. I hmm thats what i want to say to you end. Ah, the fact is that the story with my student continued; she was expelled. No no no, 2 years later she suddenly writes to me from the same student, when you remember, we watched the movie, kalina red. I just watched an amazing movie. Recommend me Something Else from soviet films. Well, sovietera films. Yes, you know, i wanted to ask you for a conclusion. Lets give you some advice . From the nonsoviet soviet, to our students 2123, what would you now as a result of at the end of our conversation, could you advise they should look at tarkovskys mirror. I dont know how uh it wont scare you. Lets say a 2021 year old person, but in my opinion. Its worth at least trying to watch. Eh, something from german alexey sr. Accordingly, i would recommend it, because again, it will probably make you think about what soviet cinema is and expand these uh. Here. I would like to start with this and lets see how much this concerns students. I would recommend educational cinema, because the mirror and herman i think one way or another will look, because these are basic paintings that, one way or another, a person touches them sooner or later, but there is a wonderful painting, and ilya bach has other peoples letters about a teacher who cannot understand, and the character of her student gives in to him, because she cant explain why you cant read other peoples letters, because uh, and this picture is good for this very reason, because it cant be explained later, the whole point is what should be inside what should be, like inner the law is within us this is it it must be, because it cannot be explained, but soviet reality. Unfortunately, i was closed to these internal laws that cannot be explained, they just have to be there, and there are old teachers there, amazing ones, saying, why not, because its not possible, thats all. Thank you dear friends lev thank you karakhan Sergey Vladimirovich vereykin, we were gathering our thoughts about kalina red vasily makarychevna. Dear friends, the Creative Industry podcast is on air this is an anniversary episode, but we have an anniversary episode, and mikhala efimovich has shvytkova Mikhail Yurievich hello , we wont say thank you very much. How many years, because everyone already knows. I think quite a lot, but mikhail is the special representative of the president for International Cultural cooperation and artistic director of the moscow musical theater. Do you think that when you appear on the screen, the population first thinks to turn off the tv as soon as possible . Eh, i say that this is serious, i must say right away that i generally treat any public with trepidation. Uh, because uh, if there is no contact with the public on television or in the theater, or then they are to blame. Eh, its not the publics fault. In this sense, she is always right. Like in the soviet uh store there was always an inscription above the saleswoman, the buyer is always right, the public is always right. Well, someone thinks that im there, uh, the host of the agora program. And in general, like a person, uh, whos read three books, some people like it. Uh, when i was leading comedians or, lets say, life is beautiful and singing a song. I liked it too, to be honest. Uh, because i came, uh, to yelsky university, and uh, that means uh. I gave several lectures there, at the department of humanity, on the history of russian cultures, and at this university at that time he taught there, unlike me, constantly. Well , there was such an outstanding lithuanian poet, sven was so wonderful and my hostess, who invited me, tells me. Here is the university of wales. She says, listen, lets go have dinner. Well, he will come with his wife, too, but i prepared myself and read it right away, which means i started looking for his poems, but in order to make some kind of impression. Uh, he came to me and told me. Oh how we love our program. Life is beautiful, and we began to remember soviet songs, so the whole thing didnt reach poetry in your person. The ministry of culture became the ministry of happiness, it seems to me, because you are a very cheerful person all the time, and all the time you broadcast this culture, which truly enriches a person emotions positive emotions. Grisha gorins grandfather grigory israel once said glasses, when i like life, it goes by faster. This is one of those very important dishonest, and i believe that one of the problems is serious. Here we are when covid was over, we were allowed to play at 25 amplifiers. And everything was clear. We played with twentyfive percent. There they suffered endless losses, then they allowed 50 and the formula. Life is beautiful, it worked amazingly, because people left the house. All the quarantines were over and it seemed to everyone that, well, now its starting, and then that means, after it started, a special war, an operation, we sat for a long time thinking, should we play at all . V performance called life is beautiful, and we decided to win, the audience responded very warmly to this. How do you think such a huge putin can be, thats my personal question. But to what extent we are generally the masters of our destiny, when we go, we are on this path, maybe i didnt think about it in cocreation. What i can . There you decide your own destiny. I understood perfectly well that we live in such proposed circumstances, that there are large lines of history that dictate this or that behavior, because in any proposed circumstances. You can behave. Uh, well, decently. Or maybe its still indecent. This doesnt mean im a conformist, im an absolute conformist. I accept Life Conditions as they are. Im not making this up. Eh, im not trying. Eh, there fight and shout that we are now going to break everything. Now we will rebuild everything. Im talking about this in general, its not about me. As good soldier sheik said, i stand in the party of moderate progress within the framework of the rule of law . Well, this position is from childhood. Well, yes, when i lived with my grandmother, my mother had her own family, and naturally. Uh, this is the need not to offend anyone. Find some right balance. Sometimes even sometimes even to lie, just so as not to offend one or the other, there and so on. Well, there was no need for grandmother, she knew everything that he was not living now. I am a grandma and grandpa until im 20 years old. I would like to move forward a little to where you became a minister and on the day when the president invited you to become a minister. I know that you came into the president s office with intention. How to generally refuse there , the president convinced you, but im interested another question. Here you are, when the president came out, why were you thinking at that moment . Then i thought how terrible it was. I just understood the situation that existed in 2000. It was extremely difficult, well, so that they dont understand, what was the state of the ministry of culture, i was the chairman of the allrussian state television and Radio Broadcasting company, we already then, yes, we then carried out uh, well, then it was called automation. Now this is called digitalization, there was such a moscow computer center, uh, which uh, did the best for us back then be uh, from a communication standpoint. Eh, i had the internet in my office , this whole story was just beginning hmm, and Mikhail Yuryevich leshchen was seriously involved in this. Was. Eh, reign, mad man, ill fly higher than that. He does this and so, it means there are eight screens in the office somewhere. There is a back and forth connection of communication. We knew it all back then, when suddenly from a phone like this you got a phone that wasnt like this, yes, but you got a phone like this, and then just mashenka well, it was something incredible. Im coming to ministry of culture. Or rather, my assistant, the Television Guy comes to the ministry of culture and goes into the office, which means he speaks, and there stands erics car with this big, big carriage, if you remember fashionable things from these days, yes, yes, and uh, and thats all , and he says, guys, well , at least youre there, well, like some kind of thing, well, like installing a computer. Well then i came and there was a computer. Ill try to use this computer to contact the secretary. At least it turned out no, the computer was installed, but nothing inside the networks of the ministry of networks, there were no communications, yes, but this is a small detail, but it is very characteristic. We tried to live on television. Its closer to the 21st century. But here everything was still poor, firstly, there was no money. This is the worst thing. I left the ministry in 1997, when some terrible monstrous mutual offsets were going on , transgaz somewhere through some kind of Something Like that. Maybe build something and then at the end there would have to be a salary for uh, that means probably 700 people who were deputy ministers. Thats it, thats all. Its worth saying so with horror and this shopping center. I understand that this is something completely prohibitive and i, when i came in 2000. I realized this is a huge problem. You see, there was a very difficult moment there in the nineties. There was no money for the cultural institution, they told you. You are free there, take transplants and survive, there was only one idea. We must pay tribute to Evgeny Yuryevich fedor and stated that shcherbakov, who was his first deputy, had one idea to preserve everything that was possible, to preserve in the sphere of culture. And when they now tell me there was a book and wait, that we were the most reading country. I always say, those who read between the lines in the country are the most, but uh, if we look at the inventories, well , the Library Funds there are 90 some second year, then three quarters were classical marxism or theres a small land there thats still being cut off, youre there, uh, i dont know, tens of millions. Yes, thats why the design itself was very strange and, of course, the main task was money, money, money money money, and uh, when the program of the cultural revolution in general. My love affair with television is like this. Uh real which started in 2000. Well, like a leader. Yes, he was connected with one iron man. I should be recognized by the secretary of the minister of finance, not the minister of finance, i see him, here is the secretary and there are women who work in departments in the ministry of finance and the ministry of economy, because you came the man from tv. Well, he sings songs on sundays or saturdays. Well they are coming. Well, how is he doing . Well, its too much, yes, refuse. Well, in general, here he is, uh, but actually. Uh, the problem was incredibly large and it was a colossal problem. Uh, ill never forget, uh, we started in february, not cloudy , such march sun. Uh, the ministry of culture of the Russian Federation was located in a building that was formerly or not, they were building it for a computer center, so it was kind of so huge. It was difficult and expensive to wash the cloudy glass, and two people came to my office Mikhail Aleksandrovich ulyanov and kirill yuryevich lavrov , whom i naturally knew, as a theater critic, silently, they are older on the pill. They are like that they are the same artists, they came in like that yes mish well, you know you cant fire them, that means they started, that means they were making fun of their wonderful theater, but ulyanov was, in principle, randol one of the buildings limits he could play from zhanya and Marshal Zhukov and this is where it all means. I started to find out with them what was going on. And when i realized how much they earn two great artists, as directors of theaters, as artists, and then the idea was born, and then yuri khotovich timerkanov and valery were involved in this wrote to georgiev and then Igor Ivanovich tishchenko, who worked in the administration, helped and the idea was simple it was necessary to make a grant for artists very simply in 1943. During the war, stalin assigned such extra salaries to five collectives of the state orchestra of the bolshoi theater there, well, five collectives, only for one it is necessary to preserve the cultural elite, yes, but with us everything was very simple in the bolshoi theater, the artists were all abroad at sorry at night. I can say this, all ballerinas had 30 days a month menstruation, and at that time they were performing somewhere abroad, the men had the same thing, it was approximately everyone dancing abroad in order to assemble a normal lineup. It was impossible, almost everything was very. They just received 200 a month in moscow. And for a performance there in hamburg they received 5,000, period. And they had to find some kind of mechanism and they couldnt be blamed for that. Well , we see, well, we remember that in the nineties. There, our hockey players began to leave, there, and so on, and so on, these were needed mechanisms tool. In order to keep people in the country, we were able to create a tool with the help of which all large groups in the country received a president. I understand perfectly well that if they solve this problem, then no, there is nothing for culture to do at all. This is , of course, saving schools, because we were butting heads with the ministry of education all the time. They explained that at a theater institute, very often one teacher teaches one student and thought that this was generally abnormal. Well, what do you think, one teacher . Well , at least five students. And when did they arise such questions, then vasily semyonovich lanovoy ever taught artistic expression there, they brought the inspector to him and the inspectors would like. Well, well, well, its a wave. Here in this tea we continue the conversation on the air podcast of the Creative Industry. Today he is visiting mikhail, such a huge farm. You have begun to build and transform. Then. Yes, im not transforming. I just understood that all this had to be saved somehow, and of course. The most important of art, as we know, is a movie quote that sounds unpleasant, but it it really sounds like cinema and the circus are the most important arts in the conditions of absolutely illiterate russia. This means that then we took both cinema and the church into the administrative wing, these were big scandals. Well, the filmmakers categorically believed that this was wrong, that state cinema should exist separately, just as the state cinema of the ussr and the ministry of culture had always existed separately. Eh, the circus has broken free. Yeah , and uh, that means the russian state circus was subordinate to the government. And there was a story there. I cried when we talked catimated, because the big attractions are like there, for example, there, uh, the equestrian church. Yes, there was one book that was wonderful. The time now, the Nineteenth Century in russia, passed under the sign of the development of the equestrian circus. So the equestrian church that was something where all the big numbers with big animals started. Uh, what they did. We had outstanding trainers and stayed. In general, this is what we had to do, and cinema. Well, the cinematography was a problem. When we arrived, here i am collected. There were 150 halls in russia. Equipped with modern turnover and we are long then born with government leadership. Then i say, give money for development. Look, they say, no, we wont give it. I say then okay, dont touch american cinema. Give money for soviet production. Well, russian cinema. But then dont touch foreign cinema, because the networks make money from foreign cinema. They are expanding. Give us money so we can increase the number of russian films at the same time, they said in midges shakhnazarov, what . Maybe we shouldnt touch the film . Do you think that now the quantity of russian cinema is sufficient and the quality is sufficient . Well, you understand whats the matter, and we have reached a certain level. It was about a quarter then in terms of Box Office Receipts and a quarter in terms of repertoire, but i can now give this figure so that it is clear today that india produces 2,500 feature films. I believe that for our cinema, we still need to produce about 150200 units of feature films, especially in the current conditions, when we find ourselves in a difficult situation with the repertoire. Uh, but its not just that, you know, uh, at the end in the second half of the forties in the late forties. Eh, stalin had this idea why release a lot of films . Lets make only masterpieces. And Film Production dropped instantly to about ten titles a year. The thaw began and at about 50 there. Well, i always say lets go to cinema. This means that kolotovs company has begun. Faithful friends. It was a boat floating and rocking. This one, well, it doesnt matter. And again they started releasing a large number of films. Here i am, if we talk about what i am i read that it was important for me as something of a culture. Well, of course, it was necessary to create an environment uhhuh, which people could freely. Develop and create with what you do . Here you are, dear roman. That is, you help people implement projects. And this is very important. I think that today there is just an understanding that we need to create an environment from here. Theres tavrida from here, art master, theres a lot from here, and its no coincidence that well say it. Uh , here, uh, again, uh, moscow will now have a big film class, where it will release that there are hundreds of films there, you know, thats also the idea is very correct censorship is needed in general, such a question. Uh, its not the easiest for me, ill explain why, uh, so on the one hand, you immediately remember alberra stone, who wrote that free literature can be good and bad. They are free literature. Maybe just bad. But this is true and not true, because freedom of creativity generally does not depend on the presence of censorship. Uh, all great russian literature was written under censorship in russia. Freedom in general is a test. We thought that freedom is happiness, and freedom is tragedy. In general, speaking seriously, because when you live in some kind of authoritarian state. Uh, when you live in a state that determines everything including , uh, which side should you sleep with your wife on, uh, which church should you go to . There and so on. Many people relate to this, well , not that they understand with some joy, because as it was written in one polish oven at one time. In my marriage, a cage still limits freedom, but guarantees safety. It is always an exchange of freedom for comfort the algorithm is clear. Of course, i think that censorship is definitely bad. This is not right for a person. This is offensive. This means that we dont trust people who will either see something, the wrong thing, or find out something, you know, i have my favorite jokes. I will allow myself to perform it once again, uh, and for completely young viewers. If they are watching, this is when you were in the soviet era, when all sorts of enemy radio stations were trying to upset the life of the soviet people, then you jammed the jammers so a man walks along the street of gorky time and buzzes. What are you doing . Do you understand where i am drowning out the voices of america . What can they tell us about us . Well, trust me. I take this very seriously. They tell us about us. Well, they cant say anything, but if we talk about censorship, then firstly, there are laws according to which very many things are not allowed, these laws work. They already exist; some additional censorship is needed when we talk about vulgarity. This is actually a very complicated thing. Uh, well, first of all, because now ill explain very briefly, once upon a time when tukhmanov brought victory day, as you know, he was not released for a year. It was believed that he wrote in the size of the fact, you understand, yes, it was an absolutely ironclad story. There is a very fundamental difference between culture and art; it is fundamental. Culture is a system of prohibitions. This is what ultimately determines for society for each person, what is possible and what is not, this censorship is only censorship developed by human experience, right . Art has a different function. Does art destroy there . Its like science. And education some scientists like to joke that education is the enemy of science . That all the discoveries are made by people there who are amateurs who dont know that there are two and four in art. This is this and this is a very difficult moment. Now, when you said, something is difficult for the minister of culture. But the minister of culture is difficult. Heres how not to strangle . This is the artists desire to create. And at the same time, not to drive him into it was worth all the prohibitions that exist in this and there is generally subtlety of control ; there is nothing else, therefore censorship in one way or another in general, in society with a person , the question is whether it is necessary to add some mechanisms. I am always very afraid of experts for one simple reason. Eh, i have endless respect for experts, not my own selfish ones. This is all untrue. The expert focuses on existing knowledge. We say that there the earth revolves around the sun, but people said there is no sun. Now, when they said this, they were not lying, it was not so to say. There it was not an order from the cia; it was the available knowledge