Calling it t.v. Cake was as Mary Berry's decision to follow hosts Mel and Sue to stay with the b.b.c. Has prompted speculation the corporation will launch a rival show most papers do carry pictures of Mary Berry and Paul Hollywood presented to move to Channel 4 The Guardian reports that prominent Labor M.P.'s are set to reject a return to the From. Today's leadership battle and fails to accept the elections to the Shadow Cabinet and that any expresses Britain is in a position of power to negotiate it this is 5 Live It's 515. This is. A very good morning to. Wake up to money on b.b.c. 5 live coming up between now and 6 the biggest data breach in history a 1000000000 accounts a state sponsored hack a boss under fire it's not just Hollywood blockbuster but a cyber attack an Internet company who the scary thing is here is the data that's out there can be used against other systems so if you use the same passwords or user name or recovery information on other services they can use that data to get it to many productions. We've got a former special agent from the f.b.i. Elsewhere contain your excitement. Shipping troubles and their merry berries leaving will the Great British Bake Off behind bikes or can it be a real life Hollywood blockbuster song plays with Yahoo hacked the Financial Times focuses on a World Trade Organization. For the aircraft. Says it out. Billions a Us dollars of tariffs the Footsie close up 776911. This is b.b.c. 5 Live and will be sprinkling a bit of our own start this thread to share with our markets guest Russ malled investment director pension provider morning Ross. Ross joins us this morning we'll hear a. Bit more from him later in the program we'll get our Right now half a 1000000000 names e-mail addresses telephone numbers security questions and dates of birth have been taken from Yahoo's databases it looks like being the biggest data hack in history crucially for the time being the company says there's no evidence bank card details have been stolen but it believes the attack was carried out by what it calls a state sponsored act although it's not given any more details now what can the impact of such infinite mation loss be on those affected Well that's McAfee Blue is an analyst at Forrester Research in San Francisco we've got the loss here of not just the typical username and password data that gets lost but really really sensitive data birth dates and even the security questions that we all know and love when we have to reset our passwords or improve the security of our online accounts this is now data that's been out in the wild for a couple of years this breach happened in 2014 and it's just being reported now this may have been a state actor right government sponsored breach if that is the case then it's hard to know how that data will be used the black market for consumer data is really rich and that means that identities are being sold that can be then used to create new financial accounts and new financial records it means that security data and security question responses could be breached and sold and that means all of our accounts are really at risk because the majority of these security questions are the same from website to website since this data has been out there for a couple of years it's hard to know how many people have been affected already without even knowing it and you'll recall that a few months ago talking about the most of Yahoo's business the telecoms giant Verizon has agreed to a 55 story a 5000000000. Deal but he's not yet been finalized this emerged for us and you about this hike 2 days ago and a statement last night Verizon said we have limited information and understanding of the impact we will evaluate as the investigation continues through the Fata McCotter blue again thinks the whole thing should be reassessed There's also a real concern from a business perspective because the rise in acquisition of Yahoo is is sort of in the works now I think that Verizon has to seriously re-evaluate the price that it's paying for Yahoo at this point you know we know that a data breach costs on average about $100.00 per record so Yahoo's on the hook to fix this with a lot of money now if the tech giant you who weren't protected wasn't protected enough what about other small businesses Well yes that I before all this are caught up with a bill the chief executive of the global insurance marketplace Lloyd's of London she told me that insurance for cyber attacks was a big growth area for them a many big businesses aren't sufficiently protected we were the 1st to provide insurance for anything that was new the 1st airplane that took off the 1st satellite that was launched these days we focus on more intangible risks like cyber insurance because cyber attacks are on the rise and that's the sort of risk that we're really trying to uncover we're trying to understand and now we're providing insurance for cyber attacks and it's basically the global market leader for cyber insurance we did a survey of all the European businesses or a segment of the European businesses and we found that really probably 9 out of 10 big businesses are not fully protected it's a case of people will be attacked not may they be attacked they will be attacked that sort of certain then it's a matter of getting your right protection in place make a. Matter of getting your right protection in place but it seems you who haven't of the. Shonan just change I'm a passionate. That's the answer and then we keep changing our plans words well is that even good enough I mean if you have to want the I mean how often do you change yours. Well it's also for China's is many sobs they told me I wouldn't get anything done. And how did how do you even remember all your passwords I mean people have different ways there are apps you can get in theory keep your passwords together I'm protected but what's your method of well basically I'll go with a very complicated one and run it right away through the system trying to keep it as you know so that I can remember bicycle it was the point in different passwords you can't remember any of them well we'll be talking to a cyber security expert a little later in the program for some tips on that is I imagine having the same one right across everything if all of a sudden you're hacked like your Yahoo account might have been hacked and you've got the same password there is everywhere else because leaving yourself very open so we want to hear from you today what do you do to protect yourself how do you remember your passwords we need so many of them these days don't we. Other special tricks that you've got the people could use to maybe remember them do you have a little book on Auntie's Mickey myth of couple months ago they actually sell little password books I'm not sure that's the safest thing to do that I think a lot of the programs have got plans for programs on them now but I'm a big gee whiz about using them and also if they can hack the normal things they can act them as well surely if you've got a Yahoo account as well what is it what are you thinking about this you going to carry on using it have you change your password in the last couple of years looks like this attack was in 2014 and they recommended if you haven't change your password in that time to do that now getting to this how do you remember your passwords 85058 you can send us a text or on social media b.b.c. 5 Live It's $523.00 this is b.b.c. 5 Live wake up some money around the world in a moment we'll be talking to Marie Cocco in Singapore but 1st Mickey what's going on on in the. U.s. Markets have annoyed investors around the world having continuing to reflect. That no movement in u.s. Interest rates were going to put my going to put him down in the end they left him where they were and I think most people accepted that that was the right move and also it meant that the outlook was a little bit more stable and if we did get any interest rate rises they wouldn't come as they come fast as some people expected that they're going to have a percentage point to close i 1390 the s. And p. Enjoyed its biggest rally in 2 months it closed up 445300 search you know and so it really is all about interest rates the start of the u.s. Economy and where we go from here by the one thing you can be sure of interest rates will move we're just not sure which direction is the Nasdaq up 44 markets guess this morning morning. What was your big thing you took out of the u.s. I think make you so middle perfectly interest rates lower for longer so investors are not getting a return on their cash they're looking for other sources and that's driving them towards the stock market intriguingly the big statistic from the us yesterday was existing home sales quite a good indicator of the overall strength economy down for the 2nd month in a row back to its lowest level since February just another indication that the u.s. Economy isn't firing also and has probably explains why the Fed didn't move on Wednesday wake up to. 55 let's cross over to Asia and speak speak to Good morning good morning so this has been shipping saga I don't know if you've managed to get on about yet we were speaking to share and it she'd had. A jury didn't she hated it but what's the latest twist. Well the latest twist is that the company's former chairman is currently reportedly under investigation for alleged insider trading as so as we've been reporting the company fall full bankruptcy protection we. Huge debt worth more than $5000000000.00 But before the company fall for that fall for that punk bankruptcy apparently she and her 2 daughters sold all of their shares worth $3000000.00 So and now she's under investigation is a that's a bit of a twist in the latest saga as we've been talking about this company the huge shipping joined in South Korea running out of money and all of its ships being being docked around the Weald a one big mystery cleared up the smaller more Rico he's on spend so much time in Singapore Power is one of the best places in the world to live all I imagine to Moore's or perhaps a New York man or Tokyo. Yes The bad news definitely cheered us up this morning as we been working from 4 am that Singapore came 2nd in the world's best place to live in the latest report which was funded by Gates Foundation Iceland k about the top of the list and Sweden did very well as well the u.k. Didn't do too badly only that they came in the 5th and they sickly this report assessed some of the some of the obviously obvious issues such as poverty clean water education but also social inequality industry innovation etc The only all the Asian country which came in at 27th was my home country Japan which came in ahead of America which was 28 a so I'm sure not many Americans are too happy about the results of the survey do you think is the best place in the world to live. If you also made Japan is the best place to live. But at the same time actually Singapore is much easier to you know race family case it's safe as well as to but because help is more readily available it's more family oriented Yeah yeah but also in Japan I find that as you know we've been talking about Prime Minister. Push to get more women to go back to work but there's some societal expectations of you have to deal the House what gets said Trailways in Singapore you can just hire somebody to to help you and you can actually continue working and still raise a family quite you know at a reasonable rate say that I have to say probably ranks Singapore a lot higher than Japan thank you very much for that Enjoy your weekend lost his place is yours Mary. Kay shall we delve into the papers Yeah and the the lead story set in the Telegraph fresh transatlantic trade war in the offing of the World Trade Organization ruled against the European Union in the long run the legal battle over the billions of pounds of state I'd apparently they're making this available to the aviation giant us and of course this is pretty rough with the loss of Boeing in America. It's all about so-called moment shy or fact least I given to Airbus by members to develop its fleet and that's called just genuine and substantial loss of cells from about. The boat going in there so you know off the bricks things do not run it's a smoothly for world trade Ross mold for my job l. With this program trust him on this it doesn't look like the way you have been behaving particularly well does it well if that's the way the Americans see equally the being counter arguing saying that was because Boeing gets state defense or was to get some little benefit from from from the us government as well I think what this goes to show is what stuck in a low growth world it's not easy to find and companies and governments are getting more and more desperate and more and more frantic in their attempts to generate it we're hearing several politicians talk about toleration protectionism it's just the know the leg in a later development in an ongoing situation and remember there is a tricky economic situation in the thirty's and I would bet a lot worse by charging protectionism lot of people put the Great Depression down to that so we've got to be fairly careful we go and open a very slippery slope another one that's in the Guardian Mickie speaking to a bail the chief exec of Lloyd's of London and making a few headlines today Lloyd's proms. E.u. Office to protect business and this is what she told me yesterday we've calculated that about 4 percent of our revenues are at risk if we don't have that access but we're not going to hang around we're not going to wait to see what the government will end up in the geisha ating we've got our own contingency plans that will put in place as and when necessary and one of those is about setting up a subsidiaries has some sort of subsidiary full the market in one of the existing e.u. Countries or one of those that will continue to be an e.u. Country and then be able to write business from the other countries into that subsidiary. We're not going to hang around us while I do this this sounds very similar to the story. Of been climbing you know they need to have a subsidiary in I think is each other easier on a subsidiary in Europe in order to sit tight revenues affectively says no I don't think I think Lloyds are coming out on a limb on this of the other companies are obviously contemplating what the outcome of the of course is another matter. What else have we gotten here. Bt the Telegraph once again bt plans to bar full ownership of you view from partners bt is in talks to was a deal worth tens of millions of pounds for full ownership of you at least to set up technology joint venture with Britain's public service broadcasters and it's broadband rival talk talks are some big names being lumped in there and I think this is such too because the code for a program that uses the same people right might that. That's fairly topical at the moment. And also we cover everything to make you have a look at the Wall Street Journal it's been saying more tech companies under pressure big ad buyers marketers are upset with Facebook after learning the tech giant has vastly overestimated average viewing times for its video ads you do wonder sometimes that you when you see you see either of these things be retreated hundreds of that. The times are millions of years on Facebook how many people actually sitting down and watching the whole video can't you press to move on from the you can still the case you can yeah you can do that on well it depends what you do as if you've recorded it on t.v. You can fast forward through things but online now it they sort of trap you a little bit more and you know if you want to see the content but this is more I think about people who are going past video adverts on on its platform are they actually watching the whole thing or are they just switching off turning away scrolling down a bit of sticking with it Facebook bases a lot of its revenues on that kind of stuff that's plenty in the papers today it's 531 on digital online smartphones and tablets this is b.b.c. 5 live coming up more bake off Yahoo and stranded sailors but 1st with the news Helen place Yahoo says hackers stole information from about 500000000 users in 2014 it's thought to be the largest publicly disclosed cyber breach in history a curfew has been imposed in the city of Charlotte in North Carolina after 3 nights of protests following the death of a black man shot by police a man shot during yesterday's demonstrations has now died in Oklahoma a white police officer who shot dead an unarmed black motorist has been charged with manslaughter but he claims she opened fire on the 40 year old when he didn't follow her commands and began to reach into his car window the United States and Russia have failed to agree on how to revive the collapsed cease fire in Syria the u.s. Secretary of State John Kerry says Moscow needs to show its serious about ending the violence there and the consumer group Which is calling on banks to cover the losses of their customers who are tricked into transferring money from their accounts to fraudsters it wants financial regulators to see if there should be more protection for the public that's the headlines Nelson Kumar has the sport Celtic and Rangers will meet in the semifinals of the Scottish League Cup The Old Firm tie was can. Firm following Aberdeen's 10 win over St Johnstone to reach the last for Adam Rooney's last minute winner means they'll meet Morton for a place in the final the 72 teams in English Football League have collectively ruled against the inclusion of Premier League b. Teams in any future reform to the league structure Somerset's heavy victory of the Nottinghamshire means they'll win the county championship for the 1st time if Middlesex and Yorkshire draw their match at Lord's Yorkshire's for batting bonus points mean all 3 contenders can still clinch the title on the final day of the domestic season Rory McILROY and pool Casey have both a couple of shots off the lead at the season ending p.g.a. Tour championship in Atlanta the path initially on 2 under par after their 1st round us Open champion Dustin Johnson is involved in a 3 way tie for the lead on 4 under and in Super League qualifiers leads ended their disappointing campaign with a 3712 win of a lease century and twice the school is back on their hands back on the right column or 8 and this is fighting talk on Saturday will be live from Cardiff in front of an audience at the b.b.c. Champions league of darts where my panel will go head to head to win points for punditry this is 1.2 points this is 3. Days for you if that's fighting talk with me call Mary Saturday the earlier time of 10 30 am on 5 life. Good morning it's 534 this is where I get to money with Mickey Clarke and me Sean Farrington our top story this morning is of course that Yahoo story it suffered what could be the biggest data breach in history half a 1000000000 accounts hacked the e.u. Has failed to eliminate billions of dollars in legal aid to Airbus according to the World Trade Organization and a new loan for the stricken ship line hanging should mean many of its crews will actually be able to return to land we'll have more on that shortly and get 5 lives . Website podcast for Wake up to money of course maybe see you k. Forward slash 5 live if you want to catch up with any of the podcasts from this week I mean you've got a few tips in on what to do with your passwords we've had on the amount just a says he's got his password he's an obstructed combination of a group of foreign words which I remember as a mnemonic. Might be more familiar with j. 102 work he says he's seen since of the password for everything same password for everything it's when one logon asks you to change it that causes problems always forget what I've changed it to. He says there's one password up on the i Phone which helps remember them all so you can add a number that's well my rant is just that a number of the panels will have but which number to us on which different logon when I say yes to change one of the British in the amount of times I click that forgotten password link and go through the whole rigmarole just to get into account I'm sure we've all been there get in touch with this at 5 o 5 I own social media b.b.c. 5 Live any tips on what to do about remembering your passwords or if you use Yahoo How do you feel about this announcement that we've been following the story of one Jin had an update there from Reka in Singapore the big South Korean shipping firm that's on the verge of collapse its financial troubles have left dozens of that ship stuck at sea because tugboat pilots and doctors are worried they won't get paid but the deadlock could be over after a fresh loan was agreed by hanging its biggest shareholder Korean Airlines now has about 3 percent of the shipping market but the still being a big concern about the impact on global trade particularly the delivery of goods in time for Christmas but what about those cruise more than 2000 sailors have been in limbo for the past 3 weeks and we're joined now by campaign is the director of justice and welfare at Mission to Seafarers a charity that serves merchant crews Good morning Ken good morning it is a common thing it tends to be more common when freight rates. Pressed and companies struggle to meet their obligations for their contracts wages tend to be delayed or paid in part or not paid at all. And of course the seafarers in this particular case desperately worried because if the creditors preempt any move they worry that the ships will be arrested for judicial sale and are they going to be stranded will they be repatriated these are all great concerns for them I don't give these guys been waiting to get into a pool Well it's difficult to tell some and to deport early in the week some are still trying to towards Port we understand that there are 4 approach in the u.k. And in the next nearest dunk and then Rotterdam but poor chap in Singapore has already been on one of the ships to try to allay the fears of seafarers. It's interesting that. The State of the shipping industry used to be used as a barometer if the motion soaring poll the less law it would economies were doing well what was this like the shipping industry at the moment well it's very much the same the shipping is one of the precursor was for movements in the markets at the moment freight rates are somewhat depressed and it's in those circumstances that owners try to limit the cost limit their liabilities and of course seafarers the easy targets hasn't been much of an effect for British sailors around the world we don't yet have the cruellest to identify what nationalities. Are involved in this of course there has been a huge trend in the labor supply countries going towards ever cheaper crews and to mostly in parts of Asia so it's very difficult to know what Brits what Europeans are involved is there ever much of a fallout for for the sailors if you're not putting the boat back into ports are there repercussions once they if say hangin survives here and everything is hunky dory in a few months well when they are adrift or indeed if they come into port after some time will the ship be resupplied food water generator fuel to pump the water out of the tanks. And I think those are the concerns and remember the seafarers a tend to be on 9 months to one year contracts dislocated from family and friends and in this age it's no doubt that the families will already know of this problem and so the seafarers will be desperate to contact home and to discover are they going to be repatriated I mean he in this case engine is being thrown a very fragile lifeline but what stays does it come and. The onus on if a company does go into administration whether those ships are on loaded what happens to those ships off which regime would be you could mothball them but in a lot of instances they do trunk the engines going the thing to get over yes we've had periods where layups of being a common feature particularly in the Norwegian Fjords But of course a dead ship is very difficult to bring back into service no heating no lighting. Insect infestation quickly takes hold a need to really just not compatible with human habitation when it does ship as it is called goes bad. But I think when they come into port then the real concerns happen. Is they're going to be the possibility of resupply and ultimately if all else fails it's the responsibility of the flag state to repatriate the seafarers can thank you very much campaign director of justice and welfare mission to see ferret Mickey hammer in Staffordshire goes to long lengths to try and keep her password safe she says she has different email addresses for different organizations or websites so that if they decide to sell her information she can delete that account she also has different passwords for everything upper and lower case at least 9 strikes long said they're kept on a spreadsheet document which is locked and she doesn't allow her device to remember the password so she has to remember that one possible process word and then she can access everything she says. Yes to people laugh at me for having such complex passwords Yes I don't care because it really helps me to keep me better secured sounds like a degree you know is there is another is another job as a thank you for your tips keep them coming and we'll be talking more about this shortly It's 541 suppose we've got to talk about the market. Well I'm changing my passwords there's several with from the pension provider I and Ross the thing that struck me about the use Yesterday was. Want to see the share price of the act and actually do a great deal which suggests to me there isn't much of a commercial disadvantage in this well I think I think we're still waiting to find out I guess one slip pops lazy sumption could make the Verizon deal will be will be going ahead not really what's been driving the Yahoo share price recently anyway so I guess we'll wait to find out what you know Yahoo themselves seem to be trying to sell grapple with exactly what the implications are of any will any customers now go through their accounts come to the conclusion maybe the been hacked maybe it's cost them some money so I think in that respect we're probably still finding out if there are any financial implications and that whether they in turn will the knock on to the share price but isn't there just a morsel of ache on some of the horizon executives faces a you know yes boss we've done our due diligence and bought the why there was a hype 2 years ago yeah it doesn't look good and I think this goes she goes to show that any acquisition comes with risk no matter how well intended and demand that's where the majority of acquisitions fail to deliver either the revenue benefits all the cost benefits the executives target and so any company if you're running from an investment point of view if they're looking to do a big deal you've got to look look twice and think very very hard before you bought them you mentioned something earlier which was. Been thinking about was you know if companies like Yahoo get tripped up what is the future for the Internet well it's fast and as we've always got lots and lots of economy stock using cash should be abolished because it's used by criminals now most of the other argument is that Central Bank is some hops might want to get rid of cash because it's another weans of controlling money flow in trying to get people to dash out and spend if they take interest rates into negative territory but by playing the same logic you ban cars because criminals use getaway cars oh yeah what do you do with the Internet we've heard from which today talk about how banks should provide moral protection to save his who are transferring cash unwittingly to for old says so taking that to its logic. And you end up buying pretty much everything that you are bonkers idea is yeah and I mean Internet companies in general the show was talking about Facebook and the amount of time people spend looking at the advertising our Internet companies fighting to me expectations as far as investors are concerned I think I mean Twitter is a classic example of the share price has been absolutely horrible it's got lots of very loyal uses but not as much want to pay for the service and none of them want to look at adverts on it so you know which has got a very very suspect business model in my opinion advertising is tricky and a lot of Internet coms are said oh look we can drill down we can target the perfect customer for you and get right into that at the very people you're targeting book on the other hand why these brands that we all know so well so big because the advertise on mass media and I know obviously the b.b.c. Doesn't get involved in that but other broadcasters do and that's how the build up their brands maybe it isn't the stripping down in talking it's going back and doing it the ole way and spreading in Emerald everywhere that's actually the better way of doing it a similar brief look at the markets in general and share prices in pretty feisty for me yesterday on the back of that Fred right decision. It does seem to invest is a back into the old routine of grasping every piece of good news that comes along and discard in the bad news. I mean it's still a bass allocation is it would you invest your money to make a good turn Well I think that's the issue and again in the with with cash interest rates so low with bond yields so no people are being driven towards stocks if they're looking for income albeit in exchange for extra risk and there's one phrase been calling by a u.s. Strategy Yop yield at a reasonable price people used to buy stocks for growth and bonds for income and now it's the other way around the buying bonds for capital gains because central banks are buying them at any price willy nilly and the buying stocks for going for the buying stocks for income so again central bank intervention albeit with the best of possible intentions means that things are a bit back ass words at the moment. Just to crunch the numbers the. The Dow up strongly last night 100 points 18392 in Tokyo this morning the Nikkei is down 20 point one percent 16779 and over in Hong Kong rang saying May 24th points 23795 Rush Many thanks banks making and you dear boy. That's for. Bell It's $546.00. The News and The Best Life Support this is b.b.c. 5 Live wake up some money it is going to she says process words try using phrases remove the spaces in your far more likely to remember it was one of the we're talking more on the data breach shortly I'm on the bike off but 1st the headlines with had in place Yahoo has confirmed details of what's thought to be the largest ever cyber attack the curfew is now in place in Charlotte North Carolina after 3 nights of protests over the death of a black man shot by police and strikes have resumed in Aleppo as a cease fire talks break down this is b.b.c. 5 Live available on the b.b.c. I Player radio. Where it could well be the biggest data breach in history last night Yahoo admitted that hackers stole information from Hoffa a 1000000000 users 2 years ago it's got about a 1000000000 users overall a 1000000000 accounts overall includes things like names e-mail addresses telephone numbers dates of birth but crucially I guess if you're having this not bank details but still a lot of risk involved the company says it believes the attack was state sponsored rather than the work of a lone Hakka But was it taken so long for it to say anything what impact will this have on the $5000000000.00 deal to sell most of Yahoo to the telecoms John Verizon it's been a great but not yet completed Well we're joined by Graham Cluley an independent security expert and also by Jason Tripp a former special agent with the f. He's now a direct security software company Taney I'm a big companies volleyed the minute around 3000000000 dollars Good morning to both good morning good morning good morning thanks for having me Jason thanks thanks for joining us thanks for coming on. 2 years ago the this hack appeared to have been done was it taken so long to come out well I think that if you look at the industry standard the average time to detect an actual intrusion is around $200.00 days when I actually came in the f.b.i. Was much higher than that is actually well over a year so this is not an uncommon situation especially in a large organization a large enterprise environment when you see the headlines saying it was state sponsored. Doesn't make sense to you you know it's hard to attribute a state sponsored intrusion and you see that because you know. You know just recently the f.b.i. Disclosed that North Korea was involved in a Sony attack and that doesn't happen that often because it's really hard for the government to prove that the reality is and I think most people don't understand this you know for years foreign nation states have been hacking each other every major nation state has a actually come on out of their government and they all hack each other for different reasons some hack for economic advantage some hack for information and some hack for destruction and you have you know even others that that hack for asymmetrical warfare so they can compete with more advanced militaries So you know this is not uncommon I think it's happening more now and you're seeing it more in the news because we have not only regulations that require it but in the United States you know companies are more comfortable with disclosing this type of hack because I think you know in the u.s. We're having a breach fatigue we've seen so many breaches that you know it just it's just so common now growing there's season I mean this isn't good publicist for the Internet industry is it you know how how how much can we trust them well but the problem is that every week really we are hearing about websites who a breached falling into the hands of hackers and uses on you know you know you know of course I'm as a writer you know people are getting fed up and tired of this and so we all need to do our beats because companies clearly all getting hacked and there's always this question of what can we do individually to prove them not to release reduce the chances of not having a big impact on us Jason when you look at the of the hacks that happened you know My Space had a huge wall on Linked In the big one is all Adobe the American tech sector hasn't really filled the self with glory when it comes to this is it. No I mean I don't think there's any real silver bullet to be honest I think it really comes down the basics if you look at some of the national controls and organizations that put out controls like NIST and their starters security framework we have organizations like c.i.s. The Center for intimate information and security who puts out their top 20 controls and then you have the ostrich astray with a signal directorate that puts out their top 35 controls every year if you merge all those lists together the majority of those items on the list are basic hygiene and things like are your software installations up to date are they patched do you have visibility into the environment do you have secure configurations very basic things and the reason for that is the fact that the companies just aren't doing them they're not doing a good job of the basics let alone trying to protect against a nation state after which they talk do you think it was. You know like I said it it's very hard to tell it's pretty early on I'm not totally convinced that it onto the track you know I there's really no evidence to show that So you know I can't really give you determination I don't think it really matters I think really what matters is how a company can respond and react and how quickly they can do that I think that the new the new normal you know what the response that type of event so you don't have it. I mean what do you say to that Graeme about responding this time it wasn't bank details but he could well be next time and this is taken 2 years to emerge. Yeah well I mean 1st from a state sponsored thing I would agree very difficult to attribute and the state sponsored attack element is a bit of a Get Out Of Jail Free card I think we're going to see many companies who might like to think that an attack is state sponsored because after all if your customers believe that they may well let you off the hook a bit and think well you know if it was state sponsored then maybe it's understandable that they got hacked but sometimes highly complex and sophisticated hacks are the sort of terminology we hear but it ends up being something rather more basic by somebody else but there are steps that people can take this morning in order to better protect themselves even though the hack was 2 years ago and much of the damage may already have happened I would certainly recommend everybody who has Yahoo and hasn't changed their password since 24 team goes and changes it but most importantly make sure it's a good strong password and essentially that you're not reusing the same password on different websites there will be people who will change their Yahoo password but want to change that same password elsewhere on the net and you never want the same password in multiple places that's something which hackers are constantly exploiting and taking advantage of that sometimes how they get into businesses but it's also how they affect us individually so you may well need a decent password manager to remember all of your passwords of course you know you have hundreds of passwords online and so a lot of people asking grandma they secure. Well password managers in my estimation you're right it's good to be cynical about these and thinking on if you have all of your passwords into a password manager you want to make sure that secure there is always the risk that they themselves could be hacked but they're using strong cryptography it's something that they're thinking about every single hour of the day how to protect themselves you don't necessarily have to have them in the cloud in my estimation they're much more secure than what most people do which is reusing the same password or choosing really dumb passwords and if they can get into your e-mail and see all of your e-mails that you've been sending over the years surely that is a huge risk of a people's data being released more personal information or Absolutely I mean your e-mail address is the hub of your entire online existence and there will be so much personal information of there and of course you have these huge archives of old messages as well so potentially that's very dangerous Now the good news is as far as we know the passwords themselves in this particular case haven't been breached but auburn from ation has been your date of birth your e-mail address maybe the security questions you are using to protect your passwords even your e-mail address just on its own is valuable to the hackers because they can start spamming out malicious attacks pretending to be from other companies and might trick people into giving over their passwords or indeed clicking on malicious links Jason just before we go former special agent with the f.b.i. How do you protect your passwords I use a password manager and I separate all my accounts or all of my bank account and I make sure that I don't reuse applets and those are those are very basic security controls I also use recruiting as well in all my devices does that mean your spend end up spending a lot of time looking after your passwords. And you do what it's worth the risk if there were it worth the time to reduce the risk. Jason thank you very much Jason Tripp a director at security software company Tanian Graham Cluley as well independent security expert it's just coming up to 556 poor Hollywood as far as he revealed he's moving to China for to carry on making a crust with the Great British Bake Off we already know don't we that Mel get to Perkins have said they'll not be following the dough and moving with the show yes they marry very decided to stick with the b.b.c. Say saying farewell to soggy bottoms they have had enough of the then you know my own playground these are these are the pick off lines these are so this change about half bikes will climb not on Tara Conlon writes about t.v. And radio the Guardian has been following this saga closely morning Tara good morning so why has poor Hollywood moved to Channel 4 but Mary Berry hasn't Well I think at the end for days it comes down to where they are in there. And. Say you know the day to day in. One of men and see how the Republicans. It's. See who would go and. You know the question really remains if it's got the same recipe but different ingredients what will be the result really wrong calling it are no more puns for the rest for the rest of this item. Tara what I don't get is if you if the b.b.c. Has got Mel Sue and Mary access to them what are the intellectual property rights issues about them creating a program that is very similar to the Great British Bake Off Well I mean production companies with the help of that. Alliance compact all very good at that very good little bit and they you know write very tight deals these days it doesn't say it doesn't doesn't happen that people do go after. Other companies 1st similar similar rights and in fact there was stories that was not very happy about. Similar head resting ideas which they said claims that the b.b.c. Had so you know it does happen but they are very hot these days on making sure they keep tight control of their rights our member a Channel 4 executive size me shortly after it sacked me that. Channel 4 was a concept company. Bringing on new channels new you ideas new programs I don't I've reality t.v. Class is classified as that but especially at 75000000 pounds on a bike recall. That doesn't say much new concept to me seems like a big risk that's the thing that is an issue which divides people because some people say yes it's a show for should be there for the new for the diverse and then there's another school of thought which says temples and has to protect shows like that like Repertory Theater to protect things like Channel 4 News and coverage of the Paralympics it needs to make money there's been a threat of it being privatized and the last 12 months and they need to make money as well so I can sort of see both sides of the argument but yes it has caused a lot of people to say why isn't Channel 4 come up with its own hit wealthier than taking this one where does this leave the future of the b.b.c. In the future of Channel 4 as a public sector you know broadcasters compared to the commercial sector Well I think they will come up the b.b.c. I'm sure will come up with another hit they always do pretty much and Channel 4 will hope to make a lot of money from advertising sponsorship I was told that advertisers who wanted to book around the brand it's a very strong brand so it is a big risk and it will happen with talking without you know Jeremy Clarkson and had had problems so it remains to be seen but I think the awful thing.