Political thinking with nick robinson. 0ur movement is fighting, our movement is winning, our movement, brothers and sisters, is back, so said my guest on a new episode of political thinking. A conversation with, rather than a news interrogation of, someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs. Paul nowak is the new General Secretary of the tuc and this week, the trade Union Congress meets in his home city of liverpool. And it meets at a time when there are more strikes than there have been for many years and at a time when paul nowak says, working people are fighting back after the longest sustained squeeze on their incomes in two centuries. Paul nowak, welcome to political thinking. Thank you. Now another thing you once said. Oh, dear. I fit every stereotype of a daily mail Trade Unionist. Im a slightly overweight, Balding Scouser who gets a little too aerated. I think it is an accurate description, dont you . Well, we will see, shall we . What gets you aerated . 0h, lots of things gets me aerated, but i mean, ill tell you what really gets me aerated is going out talking to our members, talking to working people, seeing people who are working hard day in, day out and cannot make ends meet. And that really does. That fires me up because ijust think people who go to work every day, people who try and do the right thing, should be able to, notjust be able to get by in life, they should be able to take the kids on holiday, buy them a treat, go out for a nice meal. And unfortunately, i meet far too many of our members for whom life is a struggle, not something to enjoy. Now, we are going to be talking about how you became a Trade Unionist, why you stayed a Trade Unionist, but first, that quote, our movement is fighting, our movement is winning. Really . I think it is. And i will give you some examples. You said, our congress is going to be in liverpool this year. Ive done dozens, hundreds of picket lines over the last eight or nine months since ive been General Secretary. A few in liverpool in particular, with Jacobs Biscuit Workers earlier this year in liverpool. They won 6. 7 for their pay rise. Kingsmill bakery workers, 8. 7 . Liverpool dockers, 18 . So in the private sector, where employers can afford to pay more, we definitely force them to pay more. And in the Public Sector, if you think back to last year, ministers were saying, here are the outcomes of the pay review bodies, there is no negotiations, there is no new money, there is nothing worth talking about. Actually, in education, in health, in Civil Service and other areas, our member said that is not good enough. They took action, they voted for action. The ministers had to move. So, you know, it is not a land of milk and honey. It is not perfect, but i think our members have demonstrated, taking action makes a difference. And yet, in the Public Sector, you are seeing, whether it is nurses, who couldnt successfully ballot for more action, whether it is train, rail workers, train drivers, whether it is now doctors, not getting very far very fast, are they . Well, they are all different disputes and the tuc doesnt represent all of those unions. The majority of our Health Unions have reached agreements. I willjust make the point on rail, our Train Drivers Union have reached agreements, 14 agreements with Train Operators the one thing they have got in common is that they are not linked to the dft. Well, lets talk about how you became the person you are, why you became a Trade Unionist. Was it a politicalfamily . Political family . I mean, growing up in merseyside in � 80s and � 90s, everyone was political with a big and a small letter p. My mum and dad were never members of the labour party, they were never trades union activist, but they were always politically engaged and you know, i mean, it was what we talked about around the dinner table. That and everton, basically. Lets not discuss everton because it will probably depress you. Yeah, lets start off on a good foot. Liverpool in the 1980s was a place on the one hand of economic decline, of mass unemployment, but also political too. Notjust turmoil between liverpools political representatives and the thatcher government, but within the Labour Movement. Did you feel even as a kid growing up and then as a teenager dragged into that . Oh, well, you did feel it because you switched on the news and you read the Liverpool Echo or the daily post and you heard about what was going on with the militant city council and all of that backwards and forwards with the National Labour party, but there was also a sense. I mean, i grew up, my granddad lived in liverpool and i was there visiting him in his flat when the riots took place in 1981 and it felt like a city. I mean, the tories famously once said, leave it, manage decline. And it felt like liverpool was being left to look after itself. So the fight in you comes partly from that. Did you take part . Were you choosing sides, were you militant . I was ten or ii at the time, so i dont think. Ijoined a union at the age of 17. Ijoined the labour party at the age of 19. But the fight also came from mum and dad, my mum in particular. Shes like five foot nothing of scouse passion and enthusiasm. Maybe i got a little bit of that from her. And you spent more time with her than your dad, didnt you . Because he was a welder, he spent time travelling, sometimes abroad. To work on the oil rigs and stuff. Yeah, he used to work in the north sea, two weeks on, two weeks off but he also went to nigeria, abu dhabi, sometimes he was away for months on end, so he just went where the work was. And how did that shape your view of work . Because in that sort of industry, unions, i dont imagine, were very powerful. They were in different parts. He also worked in the shipyard and the local Power Stations and stuff. But in parts of the north sea, i mean, the Big American Companies certainly wanted to keep unions out. How did it shape my view of work . Well, first of all, it gave me an appreciation of hard work. I mean, he was a bloody hard worker, my dad. And i will appreciate everything he has ever done for us because, you know, he did go Above And Beyond for his family. Really hard worker and is to this day and i took that ethic from him. Your grandparents both came from abroad. And they, i imagine, as they came to liverpool, people often forget who dont know the city, this is a city of migration. It is a city that looks out to the sea, it is a city that looks to the west, not towards europe. Did they shape your view . Absolutely. Different experiences. My granddad joe came over during the Second World War with the polish raf, based in liverpool, stayed in liverpool. Granddadjimmy came from hong kong he was a cook in the Merchant Navy and again, married an irish liverpool woman and stayed in the city, but you know. Everybody in liverpool has got a bit of their family that came from somewhere else. Yeah, so you appreciate that. And presumably you appreciate the fight that your grandparents have had to have to be taken as equals and to get rights as well. Absolutely. And remember, at the end of the Second World War in liverpool, hundreds of chinese Merchant Navymen sailors were rounded up and deported from the country. And we are talking about, there were about 20,000. And some had families and their families thought that they had abandoned them and they hadnt abandoned them. They had been deported by the uk authorities. I suppose my granddad joe worked for most of his life at the English Electric, but he was alwastoe the pole. Different. That is why it does frustrate me. Well, it doesnt frustrate me, it makes me angry when i hear about ministers politicising migration and talking about migrants as if they are a burden, that they got no contribution to make to this country. Because i certainly think my family did. So, that is what the background is, lets talk about you. So, you go to university. We will talk about that in just a second. But when you leave, you are in quite insecurejobs, a bit like your mum and dad, i suspect, but unusually, you are at asda and you are straight into organising. Yes. As a union rep. And ijoined, ithink, on the first day i went to asda. I worked in the warehouse at the local supermarket when it opened up and i became a health and safety rep just a couple of months afterwards. You know, i think it is a cliche, but it is true, the trade Unions Movement has probably been the most important part of my education, going on the Training Courses with other reps, talking to people from different, notjust in supermarkets, but working in factories, working in breweries. I mean, it helps you grow up and give you a sense of. A different perspective of life, i suppose. And when you move on to a call centre, another place that, lets be honest, doesnt have a lot of trade union organising, you again become an organiser. Yes, and this was because we were actually working in a unionisised employer but for an Employment Agency and that sort of sense of a two tier workforce, which is so prevalent today, it was definitely the case then. We organised well over 100 people into the union. I remember it was the First National pay negotiation i had ever been involved in. The union full time officer came up, we had the negotiation with the employer, we had to report back to the members, all of that sort of stuff and yeah. And you got sacked for your troubles. I think the employee said we were not sacked. The assignments had changed. So we were all off the contract, the 80 or so of us, but dont worry we will find you other work. Funnily enough, they never found me other work. Now, hearing this description you might think you were 42 at this time, you were 22. You were already involved with national pay negotiations, and you were already being made redundant. I wouldnt want to overstate my role in those negotiations. I was definitely the junior partner, but i was the one who helped organise people on the ground. Now, part of your politics then comes, as it does for many of us, at university. Where you studied at home. At liverpool poly, it is now called john moores university. Was it a left Wing Education . It was. Well, it was and it wasnt. I started off on a Building Degree because. And my dad had moved into the Building Industry and my uncle was a builder. In fact, he got me and my mate from school and one of his cousins all got places at liverpool poly, thenjohn moores, on a Building Degree. I lasted a year before i was unceremoniously kicked off. So, i did urban studies then. Kicked off why . Because as anyone in my family will tell you, i am the least practical nowak. I ended up doing urban studies and to be honest, i wasnt a great student. I wasnt a great attender. I shared politics of a couple of the lecturers and i think that probably got me through. When you say you shared politics, they were marxists, were they . Yeah. And my wife, who i met at university, but we didnt get together at university, far from it. But she always maintains that the only reason i got my degree was because. One of the senior lecturers was a marxist and i recycle the same essay, effectively, four or five times and he seemed to like it even if no one else did. Now the essay was on the Militant Tendency on that faction that took over the Liverpool Labour Party that were kicked out of the labour party by neil kinnock. In the labour party, were you kind of a bit approving then . Did you disapprove . Have you learned from them since . There has been a lot written about that period and i cant remember exactly the perspective i put on that essay whenever it was, 30 years ago. Even though you wrote it eight times. Yeah, but i didnt have to really rewrite it, i just resubmitted it. You know, there was a sort of sense of if you were growing up in that city, you had a government that wasnt interested in the city, mass unemployment, real poverty and despair, people were looking for someone to stand up and provide an alternative. It was a time when people felt that they had to stand up because no one was listening in westminster. And i think if you look across britain today, there are lots of towns and places where people feel nobody down there is listening to us, i think we need to. Now the culmination of this or rather the end of this was neil kinnock, the leader of the labour party condemning what he called the grotesque chaos, he said, of a labour council. A labour council, he repeated the phrase, you will remember that, in the speech, didnt he . Hiring taxis to deliver Redundancy Notices to his own workers and that was the beginning of the end for militant, at least within the labour party. Because they were trying to show, werent they, to the thatcher government, we will bring the whole house down, effectively. I just wonder if that now you look back teaches you something about what does work, what doesnt work when you are dealing with a conservative government. I think when you split the Labour And Trade Union movement, you weaken the labour and trade Union Movements and when you split the Labour Movement generally, you weaken the Labour Movements. So, ive spent most of my time as a Trade Unionist and as a Labour Party Member trying to build consensus. Not agreement on everything, but that sort of sense that a united party is a party that is more likely to win power. It is interesting you say that because shock revelation conservative ministers say that about you. Ive spoken to some that have dealt with you. Oh, really . During the pandemic, during covid when you at the tuc and you had been working in the tuc for what, about two decades before you are General Secretary, had direct talks with ministers about how to deal with covid. Did you ever, when you first did them, pinch yourself and said, what am i doing, im sitting around the table with a bunch of tories and i grew up in a city that hated them . You know, that is the beauty of trade unions. I mean, myjob is to represent working people and whoever is in number ten, who is ever in the department of business, who is ever in the department for transport, myjob is to build a relationship and try and take forward the stuff that matters to our members. And during the pandemic, for example, chris heaton harris. Northern ireland secretary now. And was the rail minister. You know, we had regular engagements, notjust with me, but with the rail unions as well about how we are going to rebuild rail after the pandemic. We are going to need to invest in that. That is why it has been so disappointing the approach the government has taken over the last 12 to 18 months. You met borisjohnson, didnt you . Yes. Yes, yeah. How was that . Oh, it was an interesting experience. I mean, clearly. I mean, how honest you want me to be . Heres a man where i think. Not honest at all, paul. I would like you to be totally honest. You will know him better than me, but that sort of a person who you have to get their attention. And once you did get his attention, then the conversation was engaged. But as i say, i went in for that meeting with frances 0grady who was then the General Secretary, it is ourjob to go in and have the conversations that most trade unions would normally have because, you know, as i say, first and foremost, members come first. Trade unions would not normally have these conversations. You, francis, who we have interviewed on this podcast in the past, you took quite a lot of credit, you claimed quite a lot of credit for the furlough programme, the programme, to remind people, where people got paid not to work during the pandemic because they often couldnt work because of the pandemic. Do you really think that the tuc made that policy happen . I do and i think francis, in particular, takes a lot of credit for that. I mean, i dont think it would have happened and certainly wouldnt have happened to the scale that we saw it happen without our intervention. I mean, a couple of weeks before the chancellor announced furlough, i had actually given evidence to a Parliamentary Select Committee just as a lockdown was starting. I said, you are going to need to have a massive short term job subsidy scheme, that is the only way we are going to keep people in employment, only way youre going to get people to be able to keep homes, their livelihoods. We had a series of practical conversations with the treasury, francis, in particular, talking to rishi sunak. There you were sitting around the table with tory ministers, and a tory Prime Minister, but when you got this job, you wrote to rishi sunak and said, well, should we meet then . Yeah. And what has he said . I havent even had a day, john. Have you had a your letter is being processed and. . Yes, and you know what, it is notjust rishi it is also our current chancellor, jeremy hunt, who i think has said, i think in front of select committees two, maybe three times that he is happy to meet with me personally, meet with the head of the tuc. A meeting has not happened. We were told it cannot happen while there are ongoing Public Sector pay disputes. To be fair, if the tuc could never talk to the union while there was a dispute between one part of government and a union, we would never meet, ever, full stop. He said, i think it would have added a complexity to those discussions, was jeremy hunts explanation. Yes, well, i think it might have brought a little bit of clarity to those discussions and encouraged the government to get to the Negotiating Table earlier. And now you are meeting in your home city, the tuc, you are trying to clearly influence the agenda of what you hope will be the next government, the labour government. And you are telling them not about workers� rights interestingly, but your big Headline Announcement is tax policy. Well, lets start with workers� rights because i mean, labour, Angela Rayner will come to our congress on the tuesday and she will talk about labours new deal for workers and that will be a potentially transformative programme, in terms of workers� rights in this country. I could list out all of the things that are in there, but a ban on fire and rehire, tackling zero hours contracts, Unions Rights to access the workplace, blah blah blah. I could go on. I could go on, nick. But they got a bit of cold feet about that though, haven� t they . There was a thing called the National Policy form, you know, it� s kind of a nerdy exercise in which they go through the details. And they started to water it down. We will consult on this, we won� t do it on day one. They are going to consult on employment status, that package, i know and believe that that package will be part and parcel of labour� s manifesto going into the next election. And i� ve got every confidence, kier said it last year at our congress and angela will say it this year, that it is a first 100 days priority for an incoming labour government. And that is what we need because we need to reset the Balance Of Power in the workplace, but we also need to have a broader conversation, i think, about inequality in this country at a time when i go around the country, talk to those members who can� t make ends meet, porsche had its best ever year for sales in the uk, last year. 11,100 Chief Executives saw their pay go up by half £1 million in pay rises, not in pay, pay rises last year. 19 . Best ever year, best two years, i should say for city bonuses since the financial crash. So i want a conversation about how we make sure we tax wealth and not work. We have put forward ideas like equalising Capital Gains tax with income tax, like a wealth tax on those who hold more than £3 million in assets, like taxing the excess profits of the Oil And Gas Giant and the banks. And these are all things that have got huge public support, huge public support. A majority of conservative voters feel there is a need to tax wealth more fairly in this country. You� ve got big public support, but not from the leadership in the labour party. The shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves goes to the telegraph and says, no, no, we are not doing wealth taxes. A quote, she says, the tax burden is at its highest in 60, maybe even 70 years, there have been 2a tax rises in the 13 years of the conservative government. I don� t see a route to having more money for Public Services that is through taxing our way there. Is she not telling us the truth . Listen, i� ve got a huge amount of respect for rachel. I hope that she is our next chancellor because i think that we need a fundamental change of approach in number number ten and at number 11. In part, i stress in part, do you see yourself as creating the political space . You can go a little bit further than the labour party can go. You can try and shift Public Opinion so that they can keep an eye on it and go, oh, thank you very much, we now can embrace a wealth tax. You see, first and foremost, i don� t see things through the prism of the labour party. I think i� ve got to represent the views of our 5. 5 million members, make sure that the stuff that matters to them is on the agenda for all politicians. So, you were talking about your 5. 5 million numbers and you are now the head of this Great Trade Union movement. The critics would say the failure, though, has been doing what you tried to do as a teenager, that it is the very sectors that have grown, the sector that you started life in, in a supermarket, in a call centre, where the trade unions, having lost members in the traditional industries, just have failed to recruit. I know, it is frustrating. And i think there are very good reasons for it. So let me talk you through what we are doing. 0ur Retail Unions will tell you that every year they are recruiting around a quarter of the membership just to stay still because of the nature of the industry where people are cycling in and out of employment. We have been dealing with, you know if you think back to 1979 and the accumulative years of all those conservative governments, wave after wave, we� ve got this latest attack on the right to strike from the current government, of anti union legislation, legislation designed to make it difficult for unions to organise. So take those warehouses, i was up at amazon and coventry where the gmb is trying to organise warehouse workers. We� ve got no right to access the workplace, we� ve got no right to have Contact Details of the workers who work there. The company can play Fast And Loose with the Union Recognition legislation to frustrate the union� s attempt to get representation, so it is not a level playing field, or a fair playing field. Is it naive to think that, though, you can do it in a different way . Instead of being in opposition to management, saying, look, we� ve got to get in, therefore we can hold the management� s feet to the fire, you� ve got to work with them and say if you want to lose fewer people, if you want less turnover, less cost from people constantly leaving to get betterjobs we will work with you . Now, some argue, a company like greggs has done that. That what they have shown is that they can work with the workers, they can pay them a little bit better than they can elsewhere and that is a better, more cooperative way to work. And that is 90 of the work that unions do. So greggs also have a relationship with the bakers union. I was up at b m bargains at one of their distribution centres, our Shop Workers Union working really closely with management there. They have turned the situation around to where they had 500 Labour Turnover. People come into work and they are saying at the end of the week, never going back there again. 500 Labour Turnover completely transformed because of the work of the unions and employers that they done together. 90 of our work, that is what we do with employers. We want our members to work for successful organisations, but it also does mean when you� ve got an employer that is taking the mickey out of workers, like amazon, we are going to stand up and fight them and i think ultimately we will get a union voice in amazon and elsewhere. Now, over your years, decades, sorry. I don� t look at, though, do i . Come on no, quite exactly. You still look 22, honestly. I am the only one in ourfamily who has lost his hair. Ah, well, let� s not talk about that. It is a shared challenge, nick. Let� s talk instead about football, shall we . 0h they are supporting the trade movement. And the labour party has supported your Football Team everton over the years. 1995 supported your Football Team everton over the yew supported your Football Team everton over the veere over the years. 1995 is when we last eriod. He over the years. 1995 is when we last period he will over the years. 1995 is when we last period. He will run over the years. 1995 is when we last period. He will run for over the years. 1995 is when we last period. He will run for that over the years. 1995 is when we last period. He will run for that as period. He will run for that as well. ,. , h, well. Even longer since the labour party overturned well. Even longer since the labour party overturned the well. Even longer since the labour party overturned the conservative | party overturned the conservative party. Party overturned the conservative pa. , ~ , party overturned the conservative pa. ~ ,. , party. There are kids have never s who have party. There are kids have never s who have never party. There are kids have never s who have never seen party. There are kids have never s who have never seen them party. There are kids have never s i who have never seen them when who have never seen them when anything. I know the thinking it sometimes. I anything. I know the thinking it sometime anything. I know the thinking it sometimes. , �. ,. , sometimes. I dont want to intrude, but seriously. Sometimes. I dont want to intrude, but seriously, people sometimes. I dont want to intrude, but seriously, people who sometimes. I dont want to intrude, but seriously, people who love but seriously, people who love everton as you do have despair for the club, not actually because of the club, not actually because of the performance on the pitch. 0ff the performance on the pitch. Off the performance on the pitch. Off the pitch, do you look at this club as a kind of Metaphorfor Wider Problems In Society . Everton is owned by a british iranian businessman. The club was almost relegated last season and looks like it will get fined for breaking football finance rules. Has something gone wrong . Football finance rules. Has somethin one wronu . , something gone wrong . Yes, something clearl has something gone wrong . Yes, something clearly has gone something gone wrong . Yes, something clearly has gone wrong. Something gone wrong . Yes, something clearly has gone wrong. And something gone wrong . Yes, something clearly has gone wrong. And you clearly has gone wrong. And you warned me about libel before we came on air and i will be careful about what i say. I love going to the match, i bring my family. It� s a family thing. I worry that the soul of football has been stripped out and it does leave behind. The team that has the most money is most likely to win the premiership. I� m not going to predict the final standing, but i reckon city will be somewhere up the top. Somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned family somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned family a somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned family a lot. Somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned family a lot. This i somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned family a lot. This isj somewhere up the top. Youve mentioned family a lot. This is your first tuc congress as General Secretary in your home city. With the family be there . The family be there . Yes, i think the family be there . Yes, i think the will the family be there . Yes, i think they will all the family be there . Yes, i think they will all be the family be there . Yes, i think they will all be there. The family be there . Yes, i think they will all be there. Will the family be there . Yes, i think they will all be there. Will that i the family be there . Yes, i think| they will all be there. Will that be in emotional they will all be there. Will that be in emotional moment . They will all be there. Will that be in emotional moment . Yes, they will all be there. Will that be in emotional moment . Yes, i they will all be there. Will that be l in emotional moment . Yes, i think so. To be honest, in emotional moment . Yes, i think so. To be honest, when in emotional moment . Yes, i think so. To be honest, when i in emotional moment . Yes, i think so. To be honest, when i got in emotional moment . Yes, i think so. To be honest, when i got first | so. To be honest, when i got first appointed to thejob, so. To be honest, when i got first appointed to the job, the family, my granddad who had worked as at English Electric all his life they were given a radio and a gold watch. The family took the watch out and got it working again and had it inscribed to say your granddad joe would have been proud. I� m so proud of my family. People who have worked hard, played hard, looked after each other, looked after the people around them. It will be in emotional moment, but being the tuc General Secretary, a proud moment, a humbling moment. A scary moment as well, to be frank. Paul humbling moment. A scary moment as well, to be frank. Well, to be frank. Paul nowak, aeneral well, to be frank. Paul nowak, General Secretary well, to be frank. Paul nowak, General Secretary of well, to be frank. Paul nowak, General Secretary of the well, to be frank. Paul nowak, General Secretary of the tc, i well, to be frank. Paul nowak, i General Secretary of the tc, thank you forjoining me on clinical thinking. It is interesting to see how liverpool has shape the thinking of so many people on this programme. What paul seems to have learned is that yes, you have to be strong to bring change, but the consensus maybe works better better than confrontation. Thank you for watching. Hello. The September Heatwave continues for many of us today, particularly towards the south. But we� re also going to see some heavy and some thundery downpours that are going to work their way gradually further northwards through the day. Now, the last six days in a row, we� ve had temperatures above 30 celsius. Yesterday was the hottest day, at 33. 2. We� re probably going to see the seventh day above 30 degrees today. So heat and humidity for many of us. But those thundery downpours on the cards, too. Over the next few days, things change a little, as we� ve got this waving, fairly slow moving weather front, which just slowly creeps its way southwards. And by around about tuesday, we� re going to start to see that cooler Air Filtering across all parts. But it will take a while for the hot and humid weather to get out of the way from the southeast. For Anyone Running the Great North Run today, i think it� s looking dry through the morning, the threat of some heavy showers and some thunderstorms into the evening hours. And it certainly will feel quite hot and humid for running into the afternoon. We� ll see heavy showers affecting wales, through the midlands, perhaps into parts of Central Southern England as well. Still some sunshine for east anglia and the southeast, sunshine for central scotland, Northern Ireland as well. And the weather will improve for the likes of devon, cornwall, towards somerset as well. Here� s where we� ll see the heavy showers and the thunderstorms. If you do catch one, particularly through parts of Northern England, later on, Northern Ireland and southern scotland, it could be really torrential. So a lot of rain in a short space of time and the potential for some localised flash flooding. It� s cooler where we� ve got The Rain Working In across the north west of scotland, just 1a for stornoway, mid 20s for many northern areas, but up to 32 for london and the south east again. Now, through the evening hours, heavy showers and thunderstorms affecting Northern Ireland, Northern England and scotland for a time. And that band of rain creeps its way further south. So it� s looking pretty wet for parts of scotland, in particular, drier further south, some mist and fog and muggy conditions again, but not quite as hot as recent nights. Into monday, then, and still some showers around across parts of Northern England, north wales. And for Northern Ireland and scotland, cloud and patchy outbreaks of rain further south and east. Across england and wales, you� re likely to stay dry. And for the likes of east anglia and the south east, 27 or 28 degrees. So, still hot, still humid, but not quite as hot as we� ve seen over the past week or so. And then cooler, fresher air reaches all areas by around about tuesday. And it� s going to be a mix of sunshine and showers through much of the week ahead. Bye for now. Live from london, this is bbc news. The Moroccan Army clears a main road to the area worst affected by friday� s earthquake, allowing vital assistance to reach people, as the death toll climbs to more than 2,000. Uk Prime Minister rishi sunak warns the chinese premier of his concerns about beijing� s interference, after the arrest of a parliamentary researcher on suspicion of spying. World leaders formally adopt Thejoint Declaration at the g20 summit in delhi, as india passes on the presidency to brazil. The leaders are on their way home. There is great satisfaction here in india with what was achieved, but in ukraine, disappointment with the final document and the language that relates to the war. The Russian Foreign minister says the summit was a success. Hello, i� m samantha simmonds. We start in morocco, where Search And Rescue crews are working to reach people in the areas worst affected