Hello, its wednesday, its ten oclock, im Victoria Derbyshire and were live from new broadcasting house. The uk government is chartering a final flight to bring british nationals back from wuhan, the chinese city at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak. This is a very serious virus and having a very serious impact in china. As you say, theres two cases only here in the uk but we do expect more and so we are taking no chances. A mum who contacted us after we revealed that at least 20 ex jehovahs witnesses are suing the organisation over historical sexual abuse, says the church told her to confront her abuser. The first thing that i was told by the elder was to see the best in this person and to try
and forgive them. And how did he respond to that . And how did you respond to that . Felt outraged. I found it hard to speak. I was so angry and disappointed because i really had turned to them for help. Would be labour leader Emily Thornberry has told this programme she backs seizing empty private properties to tackle homelessness. If you leave a flat empty and youre not using it, then you will lose it because we have. I mean, you would just take it off somebody who has bought it . Yes. What . And this ad has been banned after a complaint that it overly sexualised and objectified women. What do you think . Well talk to love islands Megan Barton Hanson, who also models for pretty little thing, and writer and broadcaster afua adom. Hi. Welcome to the programme. Were live until 11 this morning. Are really interested to hear what you think of that advert, if you think it does sexualise women, or if it shows women being able to do what they want with their own bodies and wear what clothes they like. Get in touch on e mail, message us on twitter and text us on 61124. Now for a twitter and text us on 61124. Now fora summary of twitter and text us on 61124. Now for a summary of the news with joanna. Good morning. President trump has focused on what he called the Great American comeback as he delivered his final state of the Union Address before novembers president ial election. Addressing congress, he claimed years of economic decay in the us were over. Not everyone in the chamber was impressed, though. Speaker nancy pelosi was seen
ripping up her copy of the speech at the end of the 90 minute address. She was right behind him. The president was speaking on the eve of his expected acquittal on corruption charges in his impeachment trial. Jobs are booming. Incomes are soaring. Poverty is plummeting. Crime is falling. Confidence is surging. And our country is thriving and highly respected again. An investigation is under way after David Camerons bodyguard reportedly left his gun in the toilet of a plane. As a former Prime Minister, mr cameron is entitled to life time protection. According to the daily mail, the weapon was found by a passenger on a transatlantic flight, who handed it to flight attendants. Scotland yard has confirmed to the paper that an officer has been taken off operational duties. Police have arrested more than a0 people as part of a crackdown on so called courier fraud. Its where people, many of them elderly, are tricked into taking out large sums of cash and handing it over to someone posing as a courier
or police officer. City of London Police who are leading the investigation say there have been 3,000 victims over the last two years. The government has said it will charter a second and final flight to help any remaining british citizens who wish to leave wuhan, the chinese city at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak. 94 uk nationals and family members have already been evacuated from the city on british and french flights. Meanwhile, the hong kong airline, cathay pacific, has asked 27,000 employees to take up to three weeks of unpaid leave, as the company deals with the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. The government is to hold a Public Consultation on whether to decriminalise nonpayment of the tv licence. The fee has to be paid by anyone who watches a Bbc Television channel, streams its live programmes or watches the iplayer. The culture secretary, baroness morgan, says its time to think ca refully about whether the licence fee is still relevant. Many of the uks biggest
companies are likely to miss a government backed target to widen diversity at the top level of management. A Progress Report has found more than a third still have no black or minority ethnic board members. A review carried out in 2017 recommended that all boards of ftse 100 companies have at least one director from an ethnic minority background by next year. Finally, new Research Suggests the vocal patterns of penguins follow the same principles as human speech. The study of 28 adult african penguins in italian zoos found that, as with people, the syllables used most often were the shortest. Researchers say its the first time that the principles of information compression in speech were observed in animals other than primates. Thats the latest news. Back to you, victoria. Thank you, joanna. Good morning and welcome. Hundreds of you got in touch aftter our exclusive sotry yesterday revealing that at least 20
ex jehovahs witnesses are suing the organisation over historical sexual abuse by senior figures in the religion. Two women told us they wer absued as children one from the age of eight. And a former elder who served in the organisation for 55 years revealed for the first time that he too was sexually abused as a boy. Sally was one of the many people who got in touch with us. Its not her real name. Shes a non practising jehovahs witness and says she was sexually abused as a child, and when she reported it to the so called elders she was ignored and threatened with being ostracised from the community. Well, my husband heard about it in the morning and texted me, because he knew this was such an important issue for us and so i quickly put the television on and then when i noticed at the bottom you could e mail in, ifelt noticed at the bottom you could e mail in, i felt i noticed at the bottom you could e mail in, ifelt i really noticed at the bottom you could e mail in, i felt i really wanted to do that, so i did. And we read out your e mail. How did you feel about that . It felt incredible. Ifelt
like my voice was being heard. Can i ask you to tell our audience what you say happened to you when you we re you say happened to you when you were growing up . Well. The abuse went on for a long time. The person who abused me, there was a lot of oral sex and him touching me, me being made to touch him. And me watching him do things with other people. And i know this began when you were a young girl. How long did it go on for . Until my late teens. What kind of effect did this have on your life as you were growing up . L huge effect, like, i now have ptsd andi huge effect, like, i now have ptsd and i also have Chronic Fatigue syndrome. It has been very hard to
function normally. I have had a lot of mental and physical health problems. Now, seven years ago, as an adult, you decided to come forward and tell the elders of the jehovahs Witness Church in australia, where you lived at the time, about what had happened. What did they say to you when you reported this to them but to mark the first thing this to them . The first thing that i was told by the other was to see the best thing in this person and you try to forgive them. And how did you respond to that . I. Felt outraged. Ifound it ha rd to that . I. Felt outraged. Ifound it hard to speak. I was so angry and disappointed because i really had turned to them for help. What did you expect them to do . Um. I expected them to take it seriously and to try and help me sort it out. By and to try and help me sort it out. By doing what . Welcome in the jehovahs Witness Organisation, they arrangejudicial jehovahs Witness Organisation, they arrange Judicial Committees when sins or crimes have happened. I really fought for that to happen with my abuser but it never happened. And do you know if that was because of the so called two witness rule . Yes. Where the person who says they are being abused and a separate person has to witness the abuse from the abuser . Yes. And it was just impossible in your case for you to meet those bizarre requirements . They always want the two witness rule and they also want you before. The first thing they wa nt you before. The first thing they want is for you to go and confront your abuser and that wasnt something at the time i could handle doing. Why do they want you to go
and confront your abuser . It is based on a scripture that when you have a problem with someone, you go and you talk to them about it first before the elders get involved. How do you feel about that with yellow um. Itsjust. Do you feel about that with yellow um. Its just. Its do you feel about that with yellow um. Itsjust. Its disgraceful. I was seeing a psychologist at the time andi i was seeing a psychologist at the time and i asked her opinion and she said, you are not ready to do it, it could be too traumatising for you. You later moved back to the uk. Did you tell the elders in the church here about what had happened to you . Yes. How did they react . They were very sad that it had not been sorted out and they actually helped us to write a letter, which was then sent to london headquarters. It was kind of sent to the headquarters. Um. But we never
heard back anything from that. So you were initially hopeful that this letter being sent to the church hq would lead to some kind of action against. The person you say abuse due . Yes, we wanted to keep trying until we felt it seemed pointless trying any more, no one was going to do anything. Did you consider going to the police . Um, once i had been through a few years of therapy, i did go and make a report to the police. Have they investigated . At the moment, there is not enough evidence and also, i did not feel mentally Strong Enough to take it further so i just told mentally Strong Enough to take it further so ijust told them my story, which was recorded. You posted on social media about the way the jehovahs witnesses posted on social media about the way thejehovahs witnesses had handled your reports of child sexual abuse. How did the elders, the so called elders, react to that post . Within
days, they contacted me and my husband and they said that if we did not take the post down of social media, they would arrange a Judicial Committee for me. To investigate you . Yes, and if you are not repentant for what you have done, you are disfellowshipped which means the whole community has to shun you. You are effectively exiled or chucked out . Ya. And thatJudicial Committee which they threatened you with was what you had asked them for in order to investigate the person you say abuse due. Yes. So how did you say abuse due. Yes. So how did you feel about how you are being treated . You feel about how you are being treated . You feel about how you are being treated . The person you say abused you. It was awful, it felt like abuse, it felt like i had no voice in the community i had grown up voice in the community i had grown up in, in the organisation i was brought up to love. I felt like i
was being silenced again. And possibly losing a lot of people that i loved and relied upon for support. And so. What is the situation now . Have you been ostracised . Have you been silenced . What do you want to happen now . At the time, i did take down the post because i have a family and children and i was frightened of how it would affect us, so heartbreakingly, i took down the post. However, now, and largely because of that, none of our family go to thejehovahs witness meetings any more and we are trying to build any more and we are trying to build a new life outside of it. What do you think your church should do if somebody comes to them with allegations of sexual abuse . They should be encouraged to go straight to the police. And no attempt should
be made to investigate internally or to keep it in house . Be made to investigate internally or to keep it inhouse . Definitely. This is something that is a crime, it is not just this is something that is a crime, it is notjust descent and it needs to be dealt with seriously and properly it is notjust a sin. Thank you, sadly, not only for contacting us yesterday but for coming onto the Programme Today and i hope you feel that you have been given a voice to a certain extent. Thank you. Thank you. And if you need advice or support you can contact the action line where you can hear recorded information lines are open 2a hours a day. We asked for a representative from the jehovahs witnesses to we asked for a representative from thejehovahs witnesses to come to thejehovahs witnesses to come to the programme, of course, and they declined. They but said in a statement the only way that a child abuser can gain access to children in a religious organisation like ours, which does not have any programmes that separate children from their parents, is through parents themselves. They added that for decades
the organisation had educated parents about the dangers of child abuse and how they can protect their children. The spokesman said when elders learn of an allegation, they comply with child abuse reporting laws, even if there is only one witness, and that parents and victims are informed they have the right to report the matter to the authorities. If a congregant has been guilty of child sexual abuse, our elders inform parents with minors so that they can take measures to protect their children. Lets talk now to thomas beale, a solicitor representing Abuse Victims who are pursuing thejehovahs witnesses in a civil action, why . That is correct. First of all and first and foremost, what i would say is that any survivors of child sexual abuse should report the matter to the police before any civil action is pursued. Indeed, if the organisation themselves are aware of that, they should report the matter to the police so a criminal investigation can be carried out and the perpetrator can be brought to justice. Carried out and the perpetrator can be brought tojustice. 0nce carried out and the perpetrator can be brought to justice. Once that has been resolved, they bring a civil action because they want some degree
of closure. In many cases, they have approached the organisation itself but they have denied what has happened orjust but they have denied what has happened or just refuse but they have denied what has happened orjust refuse to engage, which leaves them the last resort of bringing a civil case against the organisation for the injuries, the psychiatric injuries that the abuse has caused. Many of our clients are extreme vulnerable and have periods out of employment or are unable to work at all and also require a lot of treatment to help them recover from the impact of the abuse and the only way to do that is to hold the organisation responsible. When people hear that an organisation is being sued, many of us imagine millions of pounds. What kind of sums are we talking about because it is certainly not that. That is correct, sadly, the level of compensation in england and wales is not as high as we would like. Compensation in england and wales is not as high as we would likem compensation in england and wales is not as high as we would like. It is between what and what . It ranges from between £5,000 to £100,000, possibly for the injuries themselves and then additional damages for any
financial losses suffered, like loss of earnings and also treatment costs which can increase the awards that are made. Again, we have more people contacting us today, this e mail says, just wanted to thank you again for giving this airtime today, like, really thank you. I am again for giving this airtime today, like, really thank you. Iam in again for giving this airtime today, like, really thank you. I am in next jw abuse survivor. I was abused by a member of the jehovahs witnesses from the age of four. I am in my 40s now and i only went to the police recently. During the Police Investigation and questioning my abuser, who was serving as an elder coming was protected and advised by the organisation. They are told there is a time to keep quiet and a time to speak effectively, saying that in order to protect the religion. He remained an elder and the congregation were not warned, yet he also remained as a trustee and in good standing. He was subsequently removed, several months later, but no information given as to why. Another one says, i felt
compelled to take mike spears, as a child, i was brought up in this religion by my parents who had no idea that while they were visiting their friends idea that while they were visiting theirfriends and idea that while they were visiting their friends and having idea that while they were visiting theirfriends and having bible classes in their house, i was being sexually abused by their son upstairs. I was seven and he was ten yea rs upstairs. I was seven and he was ten years older. I did not tell them about it and they did not found out find out about it until years later when the police phoned me because another girl had gone to the police to report him doing it to her, to. Why would thejehovahs Witness Organisation be liable, are you going to argue, in this civil action . So, there are two legal principles generally one of negligence and one of vicarious liability. The e mails and text m essa 9 es liability. The e mails and Text Messages you have received from any individuals, you will see that quite often an allegation or complaint has been raised and the organisation are aware of it. The elders are aware of it and they have failed to take action and the perpetrator then goes on to carry out abuse against
another individual and that would give rise to what is called the negligence they because the organisation have failed to take the appropriate action. The second is a principle called vicarious liability because the organisation is held responsible for the abuse carried out by the perpetrator, because the individual has abused their position of authority, that the organisation has put them in. It is through that position that they have exploited and gained access to children to carry on the abuse. Thank you for joining us. Thomas beale, a solicitor representing some jehovahs witness Abuse Victims. We also asked for an interview with the Charity Commission because they have been investigating the religious organisation for a number of years. Their chief executive Helen Stevenson said in a statement, the testimony that has been shed with this programme is highly distressing. We understand the public was my concern and we welcome the spotlight that is being shown on these serious issues. 0ur responsibly must be to tackle the
concerns we are investigating through our investigation. While that continues, it would be unhelpful and a disservice to those affected for us to discuss or speculate on these issues in public. We understand why people care. It is crucial that we get to the full truth of these very serious issues before speaking out publicly about oui before speaking out publicly about our findings before speaking out publicly about ourfindings full stop i urge before speaking out publicly about our findings full stop i urge anyone with information that may be releva nt to with information that may be relevant to our enquiry to contact the commission or the police as appropriate as quote. Thank you for joining us. And thank you to you as well for continuing to get in touch with us on this really serious issue andi with us on this really serious issue and i will read some more of your m essa g es of and i will read some more of your messages of course before we get to the end of the programme. Coming up later in the programme. Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry tells us what she thinks makes her the standout choice to be the next leader of the labour party. And well talk about the decision to appoint katy perry, a white american, as an ambassador of the British Asian trust. Next, a youtube ad for prettylittlething. Com, who make clothes for young women, has been banned by the Advertising Standards Authority for causing serious offence and being irresponsible. Its after a complaint was made that the ad was overly sexualised and objectified women. See what you think. Dance music. Pretty little thing ambassador Megan Barton Hanson and writer and broadcaster afua adom are here to discuss whether they think banning the ad
was the right decision. Well talk to them both in a moment, but first lets find out a little more about why this decision was made. Jessica tye is here from the Advertising Standards Authority. Good morning. Thank you forjoining us. Why did you pull this advert . As you said, we received a complaint that an advert for pretty little thing was offensive and irresponsible and their complaint was that the ad was overtly sexual and it was objectifying the women did in the ad. The rules say adverts must not cause serious or widespread offence. So we looked at the ad and assessedit offence. So we looked at the ad and assessed it against our codes and similar ads that we had investigated previously, and looking at the scene is that the ads contained, theres a lot of hyper sexualised poses, the clothing is obviously very revealing. We obviously acknowledge it is an ad for a Clothing Brand so
it is an ad for a Clothing Brand so it is an ad for a Clothing Brand so it is legitimate for them to feature the clothing in the ad but really, the clothing in the ad but really, the emphasis of the ad in our view was on the women and their bodies and these hyper sexual poses. And by hyper sexual, you mean some of the scenes in which women are crouching down with their legs apart, for example . Yes, exactly, and using the neon bar as a prop, i think your viewers canjudge neon bar as a prop, i think your viewers can judge that for themselves, really. How many complaints did you get . We just received one complaint about this ad but we dont play a numbers game. The vast majority of ads we receive complaints about we dont investigate but we felt there was an issue here we needed to look at. What is the process, briefly . Explain to the audience because some people will say that is fine, especially when it is targeted at girls over 16 and others will be saying it is way too objectifying of womens bodies so what is the process . Womens bodies so what is the process . We will always seek a response from the advertiser and in this case, theirjustification was that the ad was empowering and
featured women of lots of different shapes and sizes. But we have looked at similar ads shapes and sizes. But we have looked at similarads in shapes and sizes. But we have looked at similar ads in the past, we band at similar ads in the past, we band a similarad for at similar ads in the past, we band a similar ad for missguided in the autumn last year that featured similar scenes and we are not afraid to ta ke similar scenes and we are not afraid to take a strong view on ads when they cross the line. But what is the process , they cross the line. But what is the process, is it ten people in a room having a vote or how does it work, briefly. We have a council and they are essentially the jury that make the decisions on whether it is breach the rules, and that includes people from industry and other walks of life. Its a really Diverse Group so they are the ones that make the ultimate decision on whether the ads breached the code not. Thank you for joining us. We can now talk to pretty little thing ambassador, Megan Barton Hanson, and writer and broadcaster, afua adom. Welcome to both of you. Meghan, you are an ambassador for the company so how do you respond to the fact the ad has been banned . how do you respond to the fact the ad has been banned . I think that you
are so outdated, for me, the advert, the soundtrack, the poses, it was so empowering to women. It is not the uniform you are going to wear to work but in your free time, you can wear that. I think it is empowering, andi wear that. I think it is empowering, and i watch it and think, go, girl. I think theres a fine line between empowerment and objectification and this advert for me, ive got an eight year old daughter at home and i think, if she watched that advert, i would be worried that she would feel she would need to dress that way or look as amazing as those models do. You are very right in saying that pretty little thing use models of all shapes and sizes which i do appreciate, and i think it is great but i would be worried that she would think she had to look that amazing and where those close to have a certain level of confidence. Do you buy that it puts pressure on young women . I understand that but i feel like the people watching the advert, it is not going to be on brea kfast tv advert, it is not going to be on breakfast tv or before 90 m, so the people watching. I know from
working with them, they put their adverts between shows like love island and x factor which is for an aduu island and x factor which is for an adult audience. Yes, we have always had sexy women, like james bond, are you going to banjames bond . You cant, there has a ways been that sexy but from years ago, so. Why do we always have to be sexy . It is quite hard, sometimes, if not all the time i think that is a real thing, actually, really good point you have made. When it comes to women, i think that is the first thing that advertisers go for, that we have to be sexy or be seen to be having it all and i think it is a lot of pressure. I dont know about you guys but when i was 16, 17, i was not particularly body confident. Idid not was not particularly body confident. I did not think i could have it all. Ifi i did not think i could have it all. If i was 16 or 17 and could access that advert and saw that, if i wasnt already really confident, if i was even slightly insecure in myself, i think the advert would make it more so. It is really hard for young women these days, when
they are confronted by so many of these images, whether it is on social media or on youtube or in these adverts and it is a lot of pressure for them. I these adverts and it is a lot of pressure forthem. I mean, it is pressure forthem. I mean, it is pressure forthem. I mean, it is pressure for me and im not a young woman andl pressure for me and im not a young woman and i cant imagine what it must be like to be 16 or 17 and feel that level of pressure. I think ads like this can add to that. You are the nearest 216 and 17 out of all of us the nearest 216 and 17 out of all of us in this room, i think. Did you feel pressure then . I know from having worked with you in the past, you still feel pressure. It can affect your mental health. The pressure is always there but even going back. Like, there has with bin that pin up it is another variant of that, although it is a fashion brand. I think it is when you start telling women they cant be sexy and dress like that, that is not liberating women and we all want women to do whatever makes them feel good. Of course, theres times when i think good. Of course, theres times when ithink im good. Of course, theres times when i think im not having my best day and dont feel particularly sexy, and dont feel particularly sexy, and you think, look at her, she looks amazing, but weve always had that, do you know what i mean . But
there is a proliferation because of social media. David on facebook says, i dont think offensive is the word, im going to respond and i would say exploitative. What would you say to that . I dont think that is true at all because the girl is not there against her will. She loves what shes wearing, the song is empowering, it is like you are going to love me, it is not looking sexy for the male gaze, it is like she is doing it for her. You had jessica saying there was too much emphasis on the bodies, all the scenes where the women looking sexy but had there been a variety of scenes, you know, maybe. I dont know, may be making a cup of tea while she was wearing that stuff, it would have been less emphasis on the body, do you accept that . Yes, but thatis body, do you accept that . Yes, but that is not going to sell clothes, like we are going to see people like that, i walk around most of the time when im not out or doing anything in public, i will walk around in a tracksuit, which is not going to sell clothes. But we have to accept that not all women want to wear those clothes to white so we dont have to buy them, obviously. Yes,
but then, i kind of think that advertising should. Obviously, you cant be everything to all people but trying to have a bit of variety and trying to appeal to more women. Where is the line, for you . You have done some modelling for the company and on your instagram there are some incredible photographs of you in not very many clothes, looking absolutely stunning. Where would you draw the line . Whenever i. Ijust feel comfortable being me. Obviously, valentines day is coming up obviously, valentines day is coming up so it will be more about lingerie and sexy but like i say, you wont wear it to work. For me, i feel empowered by wearing lingerie and stockings and stuff like that but it is up to the present, im not saying you must wear this and this is the standard you set for everyone but if thatis standard you set for everyone but if that is empowering for you, do it. It is when we start telling people they are not allowed to be sexy than it is going backwards and we are not liberating women. Where would you draw the line professionally, if someone asked you to take more clothes off, would you do it . |j mean, ive done it in the past. |j
know you are comfortable with your body. I did it for breast cancer, the full monty. But i would argue, a different environment. But i think underwear, that would be my limit but i feel empowered and strong and sexy when im wearing nice underwear. Your eightyearold is not going to see that, is she . |j not going to see that, is she . hope not but sometimes. If she did, what would you say to her . would say those women look amazing and so do you and it is a completely separate thing. If you grow up and you do want to wear those clothes, you do want to wear those clothes, you know, you will be freezing its true. But i would want her to feel empowered but not like she had to look a certain way, that she had to wear those clothes but also i would not want her to feel that she couldnt but it isjust the pressure i would not want her to feel. I worry about when she is getting older and she starts to use social media and maybe has her own mobile phonein media and maybe has her own mobile phone in five years time or whatever, that she will come across these images on social media and in adverts and feel the pressure to
feel a certain way. Fine a point to view, megan, you have a lot of young women who follow you on instagram final point to you. How do you balance that look at this amazing shot where you have had a professional make up artist and hair, somebody to dress you, putting it out on instagram, and then young women thinking, my god, im never going to be able to look like that. My going to be able to look like that. My whole thing is ive been very open, ive had lots of surgery, botox and filler and i edit my pictures, i get my best friend to do it for me. As long as you are truthful about that, it is getting the balance, so i will put a lovely campaign that ive edited myself and ive got professional here and make up ive got professional here and make up and then a story where i have just got out of the sea and sitting there with my rolls out. Keep the balance, keep it real. It is when you start lying about things and saying you have not said surgery, thatis saying you have not said surgery, that is when you set Unrealistic Expectations for young girls. Thank you forjoining us. Very nice to see you. Your views are welcome. Send us a message. The race to succeed Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the labour party continues, with ballots going out to labour members later this month. One of those hoping to become the next leader of the opposition and, ultimately your next Prime Minister, the shadow foreign minister, who is the only one of the four remaining candidates who has any government experience, but shes also the only one who has not yet secured her place on the ballot. To do so, she will need the nominations of 33 constituency labour parties, but so far only 12 have declared their support for her. I started by asking her if she ever uses her title, which she has because her husband has been knighted. Emily thornberry, thank you for coming on our programme, also known as lady. This is because your husband is a high courtjudge and they all have a knighthood or a dame
hood. Do you ever use your title . met my husband when i was 23 and he was the cleverest boy in the class and he had big blue eyes and ifell in love. Im incredibly bad of him. He is one of the best legal minds and he became a high courtjudge. Iam and he became a high courtjudge. I am incredibly proud of him. Sometimes when people get knighted, their wife has done a lot of support. I have never even ironed a shirt for him. So when he gets an honour, it is not my honour. Sometimes partnerships are different. Do you ever use that title . I never have and i have never called myself mrs nugent either was that i am Emily Thornberry, mp for islington south and finsbury. I am the right honourable Emily Thornberry, and that is my honour. My thornberry, and that is my honour. My husband is a separate person and thatis my husband is a separate person and that is the kind of relationship we have. But the conservatives use it quite a lot and i think they are trying to say that im sort of
aristocracy. But i am Emily Thornberry from a council estate. will ask you about your upbringing later if i may. As the right honourable Emily Thornberry, you tweeted an image of a blokes house in rochester with three england flags outside in 2014. You had the caption, image from rochester. The reason i want to ask about this now is because it speaks to your character potentially and our audience want to know about your character. The then leader of your party ed miliband was furious. He said it conveyed a deep sense of disrespect. The man himself said it confirms that labour is run by the upper classes, out of touch with eve ryo ne upper classes, out of touch with everyone apart from the croissant munching islington elite and one of your colleagues are said labour had been hijacked by the north london liberal elite. Are you a snob . Well, listen. I was taking a series of photographs during the by election. The idea is for people who were following me on twitter to get an
insight into what a by election is like. So i had photos of dogs with rosettes a nd like. So i had photos of dogs with rosettes and the Monster Raving Loony Party and people who had made their own posters and so on and this was one of the images. It was very striking. It was over the windows and it was many months after the world cup, so i put it up without any comment. And then everything kind of exploded. Are you a snob . Well, i just took a kind of exploded. Are you a snob . Well, ijust took a photograph. It looks like my house, the house where i was brought up. People said, she must be a snob. My brother is a builder. This is ridiculous. The Prime Minister says that Blue Collar Workers are drunk layabouts with low self esteem because they are unemployed most of the time. He is not accused of being a snob. Are you a snob . Of course not. It took three goes for you to answer that. What upset me more than anything else was that i was asked to resign, so i
did. And that i was asked to resign, so i did. And i was asked not to say anything, so i didnt. And everybody put their own interpretations on what it was. And it is so far away from who i am that it upsets me. My sister is a bus driver, my brother worked as a builder, i come from a council estate. Of course im not a snob. Sorry not to answer immediately, but it is 100 miles away from who i am. That is interesting. The reason it is significant now is because you want to be leader and you need to be able to be leader and you need to be able to convince your party and supporters that you can reach out to all people including those labour supporters who voted leave who want controls on immigration and voted conservative in the last election in blyth valley, sedgefield etc. Why are you the person with the right character to reach out to those people . I suppose i have many experiences in my life, and that is what makes me a good politician. We
we re what makes me a good politician. We were living on top of the hill in guildford, and everything was cool and then my parents split up and we we re and then my parents split up and we were left with no money. You were seven. I was were left with no money. You were seven. | was seven when were left with no money. You were seven. I was seven when my dad walked out. We had no money and the bailiffs used to turn up. Mum used to make us hide from them. They had bowler hats in the 60s, which was odd. We were eventually checked out labour councillor saved us and got us labour councillor saved us and got usa labour councillor saved us and got us a Council House, sorted my mums benefits out. I was brought up on free school dinners. I failed benefits out. I was brought up on free school dinners. Ifailed my 11 plus and went to a school where my career teacher said, when i asked what i should do with my life, he said you can always visit people in prison. I have never done things the easy way. I am now a successful woman, but i dont think the labour party is ashamed of that. I have been lucky. But you can see that you we re been lucky. But you can see that you were brought up has informed your politics. Of course it has. I was not the cleverest at school, but i was the one who got to university. The difficulty is my mum had working when she had three children under five when there wasnt any support and forced my politics. Social security people used to turn up to doa security people used to turn up to do a visit because they didnt believe my mum was living on her own. And they asked to use the loo so they could count the number of toothbrushes. You remember that stuff. I remember queueing up separately with a different coloured ticket for my free school dinners. I remember the unfairness of that. And only labour can do anything about those things. Labour is the vehicle for making positive social change, for making positive social change, for giving people a real chance and treating people fairly. That is why iam labour treating people fairly. That is why i am labour through and through and i have to step up because we need a new leader. Not enough people agree with you at the last election. Where did Jeremy Corbyn go wrong . Please be honest. I am honest. Of all the candidates, i am be honest. I am honest. Of all the candidates, iam probably
be honest. I am honest. Of all the candidates, i am probably the one criticised over what happened in the last election. I have been com pletely last election. I have been completely honest about the fact that we had far too much in the ma nifesto. That we had far too much in the manifesto. I dont disagree with anything in the manifesto and i dont want to get back to the 1990s, but i do want to go back to the 90s in terms of winning elections. We used to have pledge cards. We had priorities. The manifesto was so overwhelming. We were making four or five announcements a day. People couldnt keep up and they didnt believe us. We have to have our priorities right and be clear about what we stand for. Secondly, there is another way to stop it doesnt have to be like this. I believe britain can be better than this, but people didnt believe in us and they didnt believe we could do it. I think one of the reasons was that people felt, if you cant even deal with anti semitism in your own party, how are you going to transform our economy . Some people may have thought that. A lot of
people thought, why is labour for a second referendum . People thought, why is labour for a second referendum . You are going to campaign to remain if there was a peoples vote. How is that in touch with the labour supporters that you need to win back . Because i think that when people voted to leave, there were a lot of hopes, dreams and aspirations wound up in that. And frankly, people would say one thing and then make opposing promises. If we leave, we will get this or that. You cant get them all. 0nce this or that. You cant get them all. Once people had seen the reality of what leaving looked like, it is the biggest decision we have had to make for 50 years. Just get it confirmed, is this what you want . That was what was so unpopular. But borisjohnson had that was what was so unpopular. But Boris Johnson had got that was what was so unpopular. But borisjohnson had got a deal and i thought we should put that thing back to the people just to be sure. I understand why you backed it. You
are asking me why, i am telling you. No, iam are asking me why, i am telling you. No, i am asking you, how are you the right person when that argument of yours was so roundly rejected by labour supporters . Well, actually, i think we ended up allowing Boris Johnson to have a general election which was really a referendum. Let me ask you about the security of our country. You are shadow defence secretary and have set in the past, i dont think being against Nuclear Weapons is that they need. You were recently asked if he would press the Nuclear Button and you said it was best not to answer. I wonder if british voters deserve to hear the a nswer british voters deserve to hear the answer from someone who wants to be Prime Minister. British voters deserve to hear that the leader of our country will do everything to defend our country if we are under threat. You will keep them safe . Yes. But you know what, like margaret thatcher, like macmillan, like wilson, like all of the prime
ministers until the recent lot, we never say in what circumstances we would press the button. We are not going to tell our enemies, if you do this, we wont end if you do this, we will. The point is that if you have Nuclear Weapons, you dont say when you would use them. That is the responsible way to be. You dont defend your country by sound bites. What would be your number one priority if you got the job . What would be on the top of your pledge card . Social care. What would you do with social care . The population divides into half, those who have had something to do with social care and understand that it is badly funded. They understand that old women are being put to at five oclock in the evening because there are no carers. Young women as well. Absolutely, and people who are not being washed every day. You and i know this, but half the population
dont. What would you do . I dont think this is our way. We have to have a conversation with people and expose how bad it is and then we have to say to them, if the National Health service is the closest thing we have to a religion, social care is like its little sister that is com pletely is like its little sister that is completely underfunded. And it is undermining the Health Service. We can get people going to the Health Service in crisis because they are not looked after at home and then they cant get out again. So it goes hand in hand with the National Health service. We have to fund it properly. And people do need to understand how bad things are. When people first get in touch with social care, they are disgusted, and they should be. What is going on is immoral and it undermines the National Health service. We must do something about this. We also
underpay the people who do this job. How can it be that one of the richest countries in the world, where we pride ourselves on looking after one another if we need to, because it could happen to any of us, it going on . Would you bring up social care funding to match nhs funding . That is probably unrealistic. We need to get social ca re unrealistic. We need to get social care working more closely with the National Health service. We need to integrate it much more so that local authorities and the nhs Work Together in a way that they do in some places, but not in others. Frankly, my local authority has suffered 70 cuts in Central Government funding. If you do that, local authorities cant afford to give the level of care that they wa nt give the level of care that they want at the way in which social care is being undermined by Central Government not giving local governments enough money. If you
make the case, people will say of course it makes sense. make the case, people will say of course it makes sense. I cant think of any politician that wouldnt say it needs more money. But they dont do anything about it. That is not a plan, is it . It is a plan. The point is to make it a priority and so it has to be funded properly. But we need to get people on the side first so that they get it. It isnt that difficult. I welcome the opportunity to make the case here so that people know this is a priority that the labour party ought to have. The current government ought to have it. They have been in powerfor ten yea rs they have been in powerfor ten years and what have they done about the funding of social care . It has got worse and worse and nobody can say otherwise. A couple more areas, briefly. Housing is a big issue for our audience. You have long
campaigned for affordable housing. Im not trying to catch you out with a number, but how many Affordable Homes should be being built each year, how many Council Houses . I know what was billed last year and i know what was billed last year and i know what was billed last year and i know what labour have promised. I know what labour have promised. I know what labour have promised. I know what shelter have said should be done. What is right . The problem is that we are going from almost a standing start. To have the skills to build at the rate we need, we need to ramp it up over time. We also have problems with land. There isa also have problems with land. There is a lot of land banking going on. People go past a bit of empty land and wonder what is going on and u nfortu nately, and wonder what is going on and unfortunately, nothing is going on. People just only land and they are just banking it. There are also empty just banking it. There are also e m pty flats just banking it. There are also empty flats and have said that people should use it or they lose it. Local authorities should have the power to zone an area where the land is not being used for housing and say to the developers, you have got five years. Build some
affordable housing, or you will lose that land. And empty properties . Its the same thing. If you leave a flat empty and you are not using it, you will lose it. You would just ta ke you will lose it. You would just take it off somebody who has bought it . Yes. They would need tojustify why it has been empty for the amount of time that it has. If you are leaving a flat empty for years, if you go down the thames, there are all of these big blocks of flats and you go there at night and none of them have the lights on. They are all empty. So you would take that private property of those people . Yes, because they are not being used and we have a housing crisis and people sleeping on the street. We have homeless families in bed and brea kfast. Have homeless families in bed and breakfast. It is not right. That is true. But people will think, what else are you going to take of me that i have paid for . No, it is the housing crisis that causes this. It is people taking the mickey. It is house prices being so high that it
is worth your while sitting on a bit of empty land and seeing how high prices go before you build. How Many Properties do you and your husband own . I own my mothers flat because i bought her a flat when she retired so that she could give back the Council House. So i own that one and we own a house together, and we own a house that my brother lives in. So you have three properties. Are any empty . No. 0k. You have three properties. Are any empty . No. Ok. But you have three properties. Are any empty . No. Ok. But i look after my family. I wasnt questioning that. But people do question it. I am a fortu nate but people do question it. I am a fortunate woman. I was saying to my mum, are you going to buy your Council House . She said, i dont agree with buying Council Houses. I said, thats all very well, but you have a rich daughter who is going to buy you a flat. And that was what happened. The house where i was brought up in, anotherfamily has that now. Are you rich . Of course, i
am an mp. Mps get £70,000 a year. Of course i am rich. You have been askedif course i am rich. You have been asked if you are a hypocrite because labour is against selection in schools and you sent your school to a partially selective school. You said in response to the hypocrisy charge, as a mother, iwill said in response to the hypocrisy charge, as a mother, i will never apologise for doing the best for my kids. So why does labour want to stop other mums doing the best events . Stop other mums doing the best events . I want to make sure we have schools which are excellent so that people can go to the local school. That is my duty as a politician. But if you are against selection, you wa nt to if you are against selection, you want to stop some mums and dads sending their kids to selective schools. They might think like you, thatis schools. They might think like you, that is the best place for my kids, and you want to stop that. that is the best place for my kids, and you want to stop that. I want to make sure that isnt a necessary decision because there are Excellent Schools everywhere. That is what i wa nt to schools everywhere. That is what i want to do as a politician. But i also do what is best for my kids, and everyone would do that. Why is
that hypocritical . Emily thornberry, who wants to be the next labour leader and the next Prime Minister. And well bring all the labour leadership candidates together next week with some of you for our Live Audience debate. The audience will be made up of Labour Party Members and those who have traditionally voted labour, but didnt at the last election. If you are interested in being part of our labour leadership audience on february 13th, please send your details to thank you for your messages about the pretty little thing out. Katie on facebook says, are those complaining about this and also the ones who preach empowerment and loving yourself and that we are all beautiful . Sounds like a bout of jealousy. Mike on facebook says, as a photographer, isee jealousy. Mike on facebook says, as a photographer, i see this ad is a
work of art. Suzanne says la mum of three girls who are now young adults, there is no doubt in my mind that younger women and girls are affected by the increasing objectification and sexualisation of the female form in the media. I believe that it is probably some of the most beautiful of our young people who are affected. They lack confidence in this area of their life. Pretty Little Things i say are aware of advertising guidelines and they strive to ensure all the adverts comply with those guidelines. It said pretty little thing is a brand that celebrates bodies in their diversity and in no way meant to cause offence with the ad in question, which has since been removed. Thank you for those. Katy perry has been appointed as an ambassador of the British Asian trust. Lets speak now to jasveer singh. He is from the sikh press association, a news agency representing the Sikh Community in the uk. What do you think . Its strange, to say the least. I think the reaction on social media shows that it was perhaps slightly ill judged. On social media shows that it was perhaps slightly illjudged. A lot of people out there are talking about this is a lack of reflection of diversity in the fact that katy perry is not british, she is not asian. As far as i can see from having checked the website, she is the only non British Asian ambassador listed on the website. So you would have to question the reason why she has been made in ambassador. Tell me what you think the reason is. Well, she has a
certain level of fame which can a lwa ys certain level of fame which can always be beneficial for the avenues that the British Asian trust might wa nt to that the British Asian trust might want to go up. But at the same time, perhaps it is just pandering and doing a favour to someone famous that can shine a lot of light on the event without anything tangible behind it. And what do you think of that if that is the reason . Time will tell. We dont want to make judgments, but i think those who are connected with the British Asian community, if you ask them what kind of support they can get for the work they do helping connect British Asian groups within British Society from somebody like katy perry, i dont think there would be much expectation. Youre being very polite, jas. We did at the British Asian trust for an interview and we are waiting to hear back from them. I wonder why she accepted. Obviously, we dont know. She might have accepted because that is coming from a good place. Possibly. She has been accused of Cultural Appropriation of asian culture before, so perhaps she is looking for ways to make amends. But it was perhaps ill perceived, given the reaction online. Hopefully she can get in touch with us if you want to work with the Seek Community in britain. I have a couple of messages here. Dr ranj tweeted, hang on, i am a huge katy perry fan, but British Asian trust . I think her music is fab but she is not british, nor asian. The lawyers forjustice group says inclusion matters and choosing a white woman may be your definition of diversity and inclusion, but it sure isnt ours. And nihal, who
works on 5 live, was at the event last night. He says in defence of her appointment, last night. He says in defence of herappointment, imagine last night. He says in defence of her appointment, imagine if next timea her appointment, imagine if next time a charity asked me if i could help and i say sorry, are you sri lankan . What do you think of that point . Firstly, i think lankan . What do you think of that point . Firstly, ithink calling it idiocy is a bit too far. There are justified reasons for people being against this move to appoint katy perry as an ambassador for the British Asian trust. As a Minority Community which is still trying to break down barriers that are put up through institutionalised racism which is prevalent across the uk, i think there should be more understanding from somebody in his position of why there is opposition to katy perry being made one of the
main faces and by far the most famous face of the British Asian trust. What can we expect from her . That is what i would ask nihal. Jas, thank you for coming on the programme. The bbc needs to move with the times thats according to the culture secretary baroness morgan. Shes been making a speech in the last hour, launching a consultation into whether refusing to pay your licence fee should be a criminal offence. 0ur media editor amol rajan it here. This was a speech this morning by nicky morgan, or baroness morgan, something which has been talked about a lot which we heard mentioned in the Election Campaign before christmas. This is a government consultation starting today, eight weeks, if people want to get involved, about changing nonpayment of the licence fee from being a criminal offence, as it is at the
moment, to being a civil offence like a parking ticket. At the moment 121,000 people in 2018, the year we last have figures for, got a criminal record for not paying their licence fee. The government thinks thatis licence fee. The government thinks that is not only unfair and disproportionate, but a waste of court time. So they want an eight week consultation and they will publish their response in the summer. They want it to be a civil fee so you dont eventually have the threat of going to jail. What does the bbc say . The bbc says that an independent lawyer looked at this five years ago and he said the Current System was fair and proportionate. The bbc also says this would cost them £200 million, which comes in the context of a time when the bbc is making significant savings across the board. There may be lots of people watching your programme loyally who think that the licence fee shouldnt be a criminal offence if you dont pay it, it should be a civil offence and it is mad that you could go to jail. But
for the bbc, this comes at a time when it is under a huge amount of pressure politically, where there are pressure politically, where there a re lots of pressure politically, where there are lots of people in westminster who didnt like the bbc coverage of brexit or the election. And there is the context of what is going on with the context of what is going on with the media across the globe, where huge amounts of money are being pulled in by california jets and the bbc is under pressure to compete. Thank you very much. He wrapped up just in good time as you had the music. Bbc newsroom live is coming up next. Thank you for your company today. Have a good day. We had some pretty foggy conditions in places this morning across parts of greater manchester, the midlands and the south east. That fog is tending to lift into leather clad elsewhere, we have had sunny spells like this in the east of england. We
continue with sunshine across many parts of england and wales this afternoon. Sunny spells also for the east northern ireland, a few showers into western areas. But where we have had that fog, it will stick around as low cloud in the afternoon. This evening we have light winds again across england and wales. That will bring the return of some missed dan fog tomorrow morning, and the risk of frost across central areas. 0nce morning, and the risk of frost across central areas. Once again, that mist and fog may stick around as low cloud in the afternoon. Elsewhere, there will be sunny spells. As we go into the weekend, this storm is going to bring some windy and stormy conditions, particularly late saturday into sunday. Stay tuned to the forecast. Youre watching bbc newsroom live, its11am and these are the main stories this morning President Trump makes his state of the union speech and hails the Great American comeback, just hours before hes expected to be acquitted in his impeachment trial. Jobs are booming, incomes are soaring, poverty is plummeting, crime is falling, confidence is surging and our country is thriving and highly respected again. The democrat house speaker, nancy pelosi, clashes with President Trump. Shes seen ripping up her copy of his speech behind him. Injapan, ten passengers are taken off a quarantined cruise ship after testing positive
for coronavirus