From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. I am lucky. One of those rare instances where a little boys dreams came true. Bud selig was the 9th commissioner and many said he was the most influential. On saturday, at the age of 80, he stepped down. He grew up in milwaukee where he rooted for the new york yankees. In 1970, at age 35, he bought the seattle pilots in Bankruptcy Court and moved the team to milwaukee. He called this his greatest proudest accomplishment. As commissioner he revolutionized the economics a grew revenue to 8 billion, playoff expansion and interplay. And also faced a number of challenges. Steroid use among some of the best players cast a wide shadow on the game. On sunday, bud selig and i spoke at Yankee Stadium. Heres that conversation. There are a lot of things we could do on sunday morning but to talk to you about baseball in this setting, in this stadium with snow on the ground. Ive been to the Yankee Stadium a lot since 1949, old yankees, new yankees, never been hit with this snow covering the ground. Growing up in milwaukee, you were a yankees fan. It was very strange. In 1945, the Milwaukee Brewers and then the aaa team and the American Association had an outfielder by the name of herschel martin. He was my favorite player. They traded him to the yankees. During the wartime period, i became a yankees fan. Herschel was gone quickly but joe dimaggio came back in the 1946 season and not only a yankee fan but a joe dimaggio fan. The other interesting thing to say is derek jeter, his career pretty much coincided with your career. Absolutely. We are lucky because the great icons of our sports for the most part have been really good. You go back to dimaggio. And williams. Go on and on to henry aaron. He happened to be a very close friend of mine. Willie mays, sandy koufax, up to the present. In this generation, derek jeter has been the face of my sport. Been the face of baseball. I must say i have told him many times and his parents, makes you proud to be commissioner of the sport. It produces a player like that. What does he have that makes him remarkable poise, class, dignity, greatness on the field. But better off the field. And and so, in sports, things happened that sometimes you wish didnt happen. Derek really just had a remarkable career off the field. On the field, we know he has won 5 world championships. He was the face of baseball. No question about it. And a great captain of the yankees. A great captain. Your affection with baseball began with your mother, marie and not your father, ben. That is true. A woman from romania. Had what influence . When i was three or four years old, my mother was a schoolteacher. And so she was very well disciplined. But she loved baseball. Listened to it. As a little kid, i remember her listening to the radio, the old brewery games and started listening to the white sox and cub games. She took me to a very early age to the old brewer games and the cub games. She took me to the old aaa field in milwaukee. And i guess, charlie, they Say Something gets in your blood. After that time, i was an intense fan. Did you want to own a team . I do not that is interesting. At first, when i was 10, 12, 14, 15, i thought i was going to be the heir apparent to joe dimaggio. I played center field. They say by 14 you realize it was not going to happen. At the age of a young man 14, threw me a curve ball and that was it. That ended my career. He was playing a game you were not familiar with. My career on the field was over at a very early age. But, i went to school. I thought i was going to be a history professor and wanted to be a history professor. And are in fact today. It took me to age 80 to realize that dream. Your dad wanted you to spend a year in the business. I got out of the service and said give me a year. I was in a very close relationship with both of my parents. Back then, when your father asked you to do something, you did it. The rest was history. I became a big braves fan. They were great, as you know. Won pennants in 1957. They won a world series. They left milwaukee and that is when my baseball career started in 1964. Shockingly, they were leaving for atlanta. As a 29, 30yearold kid, i ended up in the middle of all of that. It took a long time to get a team. Failed, passed over. You had of their minor league team, didnt you . You had an investment in the milwaukee . I had an investment with the braves and they went public and left town. You sold your stock . Ideas. I did. Just the names braves in milwaukee was very negative. But i am wasnt there a minorleague team . Yes, before that and that is the team that existed before the braves came in 1953 from boston and that is why we renamed the team. A lot of very kind feelings. It took us 5. 5 years. It taught me a lot about life and patience, tenacity, the American League expanded and i brought the white sox to milwaukee for two years. Somewhat similar to the dodgers to jersey city. And, interestingly enough, in 1967, we were two years without a team. I managed to convince the Minnesota Twins and the Chicago White sox to play an exhibition game. In fact, the Sports Editor told me i had ruined baseball forever and no one would come and i was nervous. And so, the first time to teams played an exhibition again. Im trying to keep baseball alive. A lot of people showed up . 51,000. We stood on the field, jammed all over, a wonderful thing. I do like to agitate area i remember walking into the press box as speaking to the Sports Editor who had been hard and said, we really ruined baseball. I got the team to close the back for two years and that did very well. There were two brothers, the allen brothers. We felt we had the white sox bought in 1969. John decided to buy down. We were very almost at the end of the line. My budding career with the seattle club got in trouble. You got shut down. Did the commissioner veto . I think the commissioner would have vetoed. I think he would have vetoed it they do not want to leave chicago and i understand you i wouldve made the same. I understand. I wouldve made the same. The day that deal died, we read about the seattle club in trouble. A one year old expansion team. We went to seattle. Eventually made a deal, but then spent the winter because seattle was trying to keep the team and decided he did not want to move the team. But in march of 1970, things finally came together and we bought 18 out of Bankruptcy Court a team out of Bankruptcy Court. George steinbrenner bought the yankees three years later for 10 million from cbs. He kidded about me. How do you like that . I bought the yankees for 10 million. A you with the bankruptcy. That is what he was telling me. You have a team finally. Where do you go from there . Try woto win a pennant. We got a team out of bankruptcy and had not really spend money on players. The first few years were really bad. I never forget we lost 120 in our first game. As i was walking down, we had a big crowd, fans, you said you wanted 18 in the worst way and that is what you got. I said, it will get better. We struggled in the 1970s. Until 1978, we won 93 games. Paul. We had a wonderful team. George was one of my favorite personalities came to manage. And then 1978, 1979 in 1982 we finally won the pennant. We lost in seven games. Riley was hurt and i am still upset. Talk about being a baseball owner. You go to your first owners meeting. Here is a guy, lives baseball. A great name. April of 1970, we get this team on eight days notice. We get a call that says i want you to come to the meeting. I got to the meeting and had no idea what it was all about. Really excited and thought here i am going to a major league meeting. Wrigley to my left. And gussie is right here and he had been a great friend of milwaukee. Gussie had broken his ankle. He had a cane. It was all about pension fund. It was a tough meeting. I am sitting in a room taking what have i gotten myself into . Gussie came. That was a symbol of what was to happen for the next 25 years. What was . What did you learn about baseball in terms of the conflict was . What you didnt know about the way baseball was run . I thought i knew a lot but i realized the relationship between the players and the owners was very badly strained. The union had informed in 1966, Marvin Miller had come on. And the owners, the old owners resented the fact there was a union. And a lot to say about that, but it was a painful moment that didnt go away for a long time 2. 5 decades. My mentor was a man named john fletcher, a wonderful man, a visionary. And so he really took me under his wing from the start. Only that day, i had known him a little bit before we got in to baseball. I asked him, i would go on to milwaukee from then. When we got in the cab said, you did not know what you got yourself into . And he was right. Does the commissioner run a baseball or do the owners running the commissioner . The commissioner ship is not well understood. People would say if landis was still alive, this would happen. I do not often agree with Marvin Miller but marvin said when he was fighting with on a daily occurrence i represent the players. And life involves as it did in Everything Else. And so look, the commissioner, i can never complain about owning a franchise. In my 23 years, we have done a lot. And there are things i wanted to do. The owners on the teams. And one has to be sensitive. What does that mean sensitive . They can vote you out of office . They can. What i have told people over and over and i would say this to you, it is a political challenge. There is no question about it that people have said bud was a politician. And i like that but the fact of the matter is after all, the owners have to vote on everything of significance. You better convince them and do what you think is in the best interest. But the commissioner does discipline and do things suspensions . I cannot think of a single instance where i do not do something because the owners were objecting. Some have asked, when will bud asked in the interest of his own team rather than baseball . When i took over, i was very sensitive. I have lived in every inning, every pitch and what of the reasons i had some trepidation about taking the job was really could i be neutral . By the time i took over the commissioners job, i knew i could. In 1997, we needed the team to so i said to david, one of the Kansas City Royals the Milwaukee Club wanted to move back to the National League. He did not necessarily a great. Agreed, having said that just to be sensitive about it, i said to david, why dont you move into the National League . A great rivalry with the cardinals and so on. I gave him about six weeks. More than anybody wanted. People was saying, there he goes doing something in his own interest. David turned me down. You have to move the brewers and thats the only other possibility. I think as history chronicles all of this, there was never an issue where i favor the brewers are anybody could ever find. Nor did anybody ever say. One thing you did for the brewers was revenue share. Chris yes for yes for the brewers. In the early 1990s, the system was broken. The Economic System was broken. I have often said, charlie, the National League was still living in the grounds you and i will understand. What i meant by that is they had not changed the way they do business economically and the system was broken. Disparity came in. I remember sitting in a meeting when the yankees deal came. Nobody could believe in the numbers. That was the beginning of the change. By the 1990s, we had a lot of unhappy teams. And so you had to do something that helped baseball. After all, it was not only milwaukee, pittsburgh cincinnati detroit, on and on minnesota. Your many other small and medium was it a hardsell . A very tough sell and it took a long time, talk about a political job. In the end, no sense of denying it took a while. We have a very good revenuesharing that was never any litigation. It all went through. It was in the best interest of baseball. What does the oath that . Since we have had revenuesharing, revenues have gone from 1 billion to over 9 billion in teams are worth more. Did revenuesharing help baseball, you bet it did. What has mlb. Com done for baseball . On was legendary. We knew the internet was quick to be a factor. It was legendary. I took the 8300 vote. A 300 vote. We had no idea. Mlb. Com has done, huge. It has really taken us to a point, amongst other things i told everybody this week when i went to say goodbye to people our relationship with our offense is so close because we have things like that. With our fans is so close because when things like that. Mlb. Com and everything is not only become a huge enterprise far greater than any of us dream, but also served as a wonderful linkage between the clubs baseball, and their millions and millions of fans. Charlie when i was growing up other than the radio, i could go by all of the magazines, there was not any linkage. But and the revenue . It is a huge revenue and has been hugely successful. It is another device owned by 30 teams equally. That is really important. Look, sometimes, charlie, people do not understand. The job of a commissioner and the job of the sport is to create hope. We are a social institution, no question about it. And if the idea as possible. All 30 clubs have been in the playoffs in the last 10 or 12 years. And Kansas City Royals playing in the world series people asked me a lot about it. Of course, it may be happy because it was what we set out to do. Two great some parity . To create some parity . Creative balance is what i call it. Competitive balance is what i call it. Speaking of david stern and Major League Football and major league basketball, nba and nfl and the last 2 instances, chosen the number two person to step forward and so have you. Was that an automatic choice for you . I wanted it to be an open aggressive election, what i wanted people to feel they had their choice. Rob, in my particular case had been around for 2. 5 decades and been through all of our labor negotiations and a very Skilled Labor negotiator and had worked really closely. I thought to myself at the time he really knows his way around and knows the people. And so i think for the same reason that the david chose adam silver and roger nadal came up Roger Goodell came up, i informed the committee and the Committee Work independently. They came after reviewing everything to the same conclusion and that was good. The giants won the world series did not have any africanamerican players. You, it is said, has been very sensitive to raise issues even back in college race issues even back in college when you insist an africanamerican be admitted into the fraternity and said i am not letting you out until we figure it out. And that was true. Did not let them out. Lets assume, does baseball have a huge influx of people, latin americans, caribbean, but africanamericans dominate basketball. A significant in football. But not baseball. That is true. We have more diversity today than ever before. Let me go back because it is true. I have often said that the promise and most important moment in baseball history is april 15 1947, no question. Jackie robinson. And out of that came don and here he adam and henry adam, bob gibson, you can go on and on. A tough period in the 1960s and 1970s for reasons i do not understand. Henry aaron, a close friend of mine and we have had thousands of conversations. We go to academies Compton California houston, one in philadelphia and one in washington. Out of that the drafts of the last couple of years, with made significant progress on drafting africanamerican players. The objective of the academies is as much education as it is players. I would say to you that in the next 24 years, you will see significant improvement on that very important to me. Chris did baseball dropped the ball then . I did i know if baseball dropped the ball many years ago or a combination of things. People have said it was easier to put up a hoop and play basketball. I tell a story because, how i got to this social institution think. I got it in september of 1957, i went to a braves and there were going to play the cardinals. I even cut a class which i never did which bothered my mother. But henry aaron hit a home run. Unbridled joy, she got carried off the field. By mainly white teammates. And the same day, the next day in the new york times, pictures were juxtaposed. I still have that paper. People talk about it often. And i think that this where the whole social institution came in why i feel so strongly about that. No question about it baseball, i want to baseball to represent america and the like america. I think you will be impressed and the next three or four years as you watching this unfold. If you ask most people today what is americas game, would they say football . It depends on who you ask. About my sport, more popular than ever before. Drawing more people than ever before. Revenue has grown to outstanding levels, one of 22 new ballparks we are sitting in. The grand old game has never been this popular. And i am proud of where we are. Let me talk about relationships and personalities and people. Vincent succeeded as commissioner of baseball. He became a great friend of yours. One of the best friends i ever had in the world. When i was chairman of the Commission Search Committee in 1982, i interviewed people and that is where bart and i met. The first night we walked the streets of new york until 2 00. I was a yankees fan and he was a red sox fan. He became commissioner of the National League. That is right and then commissioner and then tragically died september 1 of 1989. Bart wouldve been a great commissioner. Did you talk to him the night before he died . I did. I had gotten home from dinner and i was reading that the brewers had won a game on thursday afternoon. I called bart. Left a message. At about 12 30, he called me. He had been out and he said is everything all right buddy you sound buddy is what he called you . We talked for an hour, a nice talk. Every commissioner comes in and it was great. He said, i have to go, im going to the cape tomorrow. He said, i will call you when i get to the cape. It was that kind of relationship. The last thing he did, he and his wife but what of our daughters who was getting married air wrote a card and send it and died. Terrible story. It was tough. It was very tough on baseball. Fay had been in the office, his assistant. Two weeks later he became commissioner. That is what i do not understand. Vincent was very close to bark. He got him to close he got him to work. Fay had been an executive. Bart a professor. They worked together. Yet, you leading the effort. Led the effort. I do not know about lead but it was reported. There were a lot of people look, i said to be for i said you before, the economics were bad and getting worse. There was a lot of trauma. We have been through one unfortunate labor incident after the other. The problem was we agreed, it did not solve our basic problem disparity was growing and people were unhappy. And i talked a lot about that. A lot of club owners who felt we were not doing what we should do. And so, you did not believe that vincent should be the commissioner of baseball because you were not doing what youve got to do in terms of relation with the Players Union . Not as much as the people who said that. There were concerned the economic programs were getting worse and the economic consequences of these things small and medium markets were not able to compete. These were props that bart and i spent a lot of time talking and they were getting worse. Pickandrolls, some pete rose some distress killed bart. I do not think so. Bart, barts held overall seemed to be good. He did smoke a lot. That was the only time he got mad at a me. A couple of weeks before we had dinner one night, i talked to him about it that. On the way back to the elk club eight was quite unhappy and then we moved on to other things. But, it was a very stressful time. Whether that killed him or not, i do not know. It was a painful problem and a painful time for bart. One of the things you do as a commissioner, you always worry about his integrity. Whatever one of whats to say we can agree or disagree but without integrity, we do not have a sports. If we click here if we come here, if there is a doubt in your mind and my mind about the game itself, you do not have a sports. Gambling was something that was is person not a grotto. Non grata. I remember going into my first clubhouse and there was a big sign when you walked in about the gambling. If you gamble, you were suspended for life, signed by the commissioner. Johnny bench and a few others supporting the elimination of petes suspension. What did they want . They brought pete to see me and wanted me to meet pete. Joe morgan was there and i was close to joe and johnny dench and mike smith. And that was it. I met pete and we talked. They left the room. Heat was alone with me. Did he acknowledged guilt . Not that day, a later date. Not to me, publicly. Whats he denied it at the time of that meeting with you . There was no admission of anything. We just talked about life. Remember, bart, when he suspended pete said he had to reconfigure his life. That is what bart said to pete . Said it publicly and privately. And so pizza knew what he had to do. Has he done it . Since i was a judge and fortunately, to me, i have seen my own judgment that i have left a number of reasons. Which are . I felt it was right at the time and so concerned not only about the integrity of this ors and gambling this sport and gambling. Is there anything pete rose could do . I do not know the answer but it is up to pete now. I just felt honestly, by not doing anything that it was in baseballs best interest and everybody to leave the suspension as it was. Then there were steroids. If you look back over your career, the 23 years of commissioner, that has to be the most tested time for you. I worry a lot, i worried a lot. It goes to the heart of the game. No question about it and people said we were slow to react. That is a historical myth. They said it was a glacial response. We became aware in 1998. Thered been a Little Something earlier, but i would tell you many lived in the clubhouse, had a far better view. Nobody ever said anything about it and they have all said it. We reacted quickly. Number one, drug testing is a manner of collective bargaining. The union was opposed. They will admit it. They were here this morning, they would not deny it. We tried in 1994 to get it and we tried various times in the 1990s. When the whole thing with mark mcgwire arose, we went to harvard to study. In 2001 i put in the minorleague testing the program. Players have been tested for 15 years. In 2002 when we went to collective bargaining, it was a very strong, but it turns out it led louisiana continuously tightened it up. People were called before congress which was painful but did not lead to i was already bound and determined to toughen the program. I bought senator George Mitchell in and i would tell you about that, it is interesting. Nobody on my staff and the Players Association was forced. It was me and me alone. To bring in senator mitchell because i had a lot of faith with him and he had done a lot of good work that talked about the problems we had before. I said to senator mitchell, do whatever you want. Interview over you want. He started with me and anybody else. The Players Association did not cooperate. In the 1980s, we had a very significant cocaine problem in the sport. The drug trials all of the teams including mine had a problem. Could not get a drug testing program. There was a lefthanded pitcher who was suspended seven times. And so when people said we were slow to react, there was no history. A subject of collective bargaining and to the union was opposed. Marvin miller, before he passed away, certainly his opinion said if he was still running the union there would be no drug testing. When people say, the commissioner was slow to react that is when you got people would say back in the 1990s, landis if was still commissioner. Number one he was not still commissioner and number two, there was no union, it was a different world. Mitchell pointed the finger across the board and said a lot of people are responsible for the fact it became the problem it is in baseball, including including the commissioner and the owners. He did accept the difference was he is my guy. What he would say to you today and what he is said it many times since, he made recommendations. I look back on it and consider myself a baseball fan, charlie. I went back to all my old players who i had a close relationship. We did not have any guys on my team. I asked, maybe we were not aware of area people are doing a lot a second guessing and i am not suggesting that you couldve done more . I do not know. I have thought about it often, i do not think so. George made 20 recommendations and we accepted all of them. Training facilities are different. You talk to professional athletic trainer, a different world. We also eliminated Everything Else around there. Today, if you talk to people who work in the clubhouse on the team doctors, it is a different world. That game is cleaner today than ever. As a social institution, what did we do . We had the best drug testing program. One person who was critical said we have the best not only in American Sports but america. And then theres Alex Rodriguez who blames in his response a witchhunt by the commissioner that is personal between you and him and that there was nothing personal and i always gotten along with alex. As a result of the information given to me and the whole biogenesis of their a fair affair, 13 players accepted it and alex did not and fought it. I suspended him. And i do nothing you will hear those comments from alex anymore. You would hear about the opposite. Back to pete rose. Commissioners are always in a difficult position but you have to use your judgment. What is in the best interest of the game . It is not right at all. It has to do what you think is right. If not, you will be sorry. You are convinced of the league has done everything it can about steroids and this is no longer going to be an issue . Except in terms of history. You went to the game with hank and hank erin tied to the record. You did not go when he broke the record. You send out a message. How should we view those athletes who use steroids and have toppled the records of people who did not . People are going to have to make their own judgment about it. I have studied the game every decade, every generation has its unique features and i say not critically, i know the hall of fame balloting on those people have been not good and they are not getting high percentages. You think they will ever make it . I want to say this. I have had players who have come to me, a lot of players, who resent being called a bid in the steroid era there were a lot who did not, as clean as can be and resent that. Those we know who did it, history will have to deal. What would you say to your friend hank aaron. His record broken by somebody we have had a lot of conversations and hang understands, theres nothing i can do about it. As far as i am concerned hank broke babe ruths record. What happened and that period did barry bonds break the record . He did. He broke hank aarons record. I will have to let peoples judgment, we will all have our own opinion. European is issued your opinion is issued the and asterix . We did what we had to do. We corrected it. We fixed the problem better than anybody else has. The independent i cannot redo that part of history. Alex rodriguez is six home run short of willie mays. Willie mays. The great willie mays, you are right. We will have to see what happens. He will be playing for this team or at least be in spring training in another month or so. What to do you think . I do not know. Lets turn for you proud achievements in baseball. One we mentioned revenuesharing. Interleague play, proud of that. You are proud of the fact that you have a wildcard. Two more. The world classic. And what else . Jerome a historian of baseball died in 2008, i think. He said in 2008 before he died you thought that he thought you were the greatest commissioner that baseball had. If that is true, beyond the things i mentioned, what ought to be part of that achievement . If he is right, why is he right . I will let other historians the case for his judgment. Economic reform which is led to this hope and faith we have talked about, enormous consequences. Labor peace for 21 years. We had a work stoppage. Canceled the world series. I am proud of that because nobody ever thought it was possible. We have made the whole wildcard thing. Baseball was very resistant to change. Social institutions are usually resistant was it the owners . Every body. When i owned a team, we talked about things and said we have never done it that way and we cannot do it. All parties, players, owners, commissioners in some cases. Look at the changes. I guess what i would say to you to answer the question if you look in 1992, which was quite abysmal economics broke. Sport had been ice age stuck in neutral for three decades. The wildcard when we put the wildcard in september of 1993 in boston you wouldve thought i had defiled motherhood at that time. My goodness gracious, you cannot do that. You made winning independent less important, thats what they argued. They were so wrong and now Everybody Loves it. Look we had 16 teams and we expanded to 26 and then 28 and then the 30s . You cannot leave it as it is. By labor day, it is all over. And that is why this look. We do not want to disturb the great game, but you have to make changes and that is true of everything in life. Why do you think the last decade has been the most watched in our history . They play more games. The fact of the matter is because it appeals to people. That is why the wildcard today is so popular. And then there is this which i know you have thought a lot about, it is too long a gain. There is no time limit. Too long a game. That is interesting. In a lot of ways you can make it shorter. Let me go back to something. I saw ace board a saw a sport and they were worried about pace of the game. Games were taking two hours and 31 minutes. I often tell the story to the Sports Editor of the milwaukee journal who went to dallas at the ap Sports Editors and said baseball has lost the younger generation, a more abundant sports. Ive heard this for 56 years. I am not saying there is not anything to it. I say to you, we are working on the pace of the game. Joe torry and sandy have a Great Committee boston red sox. We are coming up with things. I want to say why is television increasing and revenue . The more i talk to fans, i do not get it as much as i do in the media. If you were if you did not think it was a problem, you were not have these important people looking at it. Clocks we will look at the problem but i want to 74 Million People attending baseball games was unheard of a decade ago. Tell me that these you do not want to see. One recommendation is a shorter time between yes, i think it is ok. We get to the pitcher ready. There are a lot of things and ive said this to people,batt in my day, maybe in your dayers got into the batter box and did not get out and that is not right. This is stuff left to do with the Players Association. We are talking to them now. And that is stuff we are talking with the Players Association. What have you wanted to do in the 23 years . We thought you would retire earlier and got extended. 4 times. You cannot give it up . The owners convinced me it was the right thing for me to say. I am glad i didnt. Why did you decide to do now . I had my 80th birthday and i really decided it was in the sport needed to move forward and it was time. Quite you are still going to have an office and they will still paying 6 million a year. What are you going to do . I do not know. Ask me in a year or so and i will let you know. Your judgment is really good. They created a commissioner emeritus which they never have. I look forward to it. I will help with whatever they want me to do. Thank you for taking the time. It has been a pleasure. Thank you. The 9th commissioner of major league baseball. Thank you for joining us. I am mark halperin. I am campbell brown. What are you talking about . With all due respect to my cut to be. Mike huckabee. Rick jerrys yeehaw. Mitt romney is getting his own state of the union tonight. Will he approve a direct hit on hillary clinton. He will say how can secretary clinton provide