Bond faces off against a global criminal organization, spectre. Here is the trailer. You have no authority. None. Mexico city. What were you doing there . I was taking holiday. What is going on james . They say you are finished. I think you are just getting started. Magnificent. Zero to 60 in 3. 2 seconds. What do you have in mind . Make me disappear. Tell me where he is. He is everywhere. You are crossing over into a place where there is no mercy. You are protecting someone. Get away from me. Why should i trust you . Im your best chance of staying alive. This organization, do you know what it is called . Its name is spectre. You know who links them all . Me. Welcome james. You came across me so many times. You never saw me. What took you so long . Is this really what you want . Living in the shadows . Hunting, being hunted . Always alone . I dont stop to think about it. It was me, james. The author of all of your pain. Charlie i am pleased to have daniel craig and sam mendes back at this table. How hard was it to top skyfall . Sam we were determined to make a different movie. Almost everything about this movie, we shot this on film charlie why did you do that . Sam there was a romance about this movie i wanted to try and achieve. Its a love story. But a nostalgia to the film as well. There is a softness, a grandeur. I found digital on sky fall in daylight scenes to be harsh. You spend time trying to soften it. And there is a routine. [laughter] [indiscernible] sam i needed a few extra pages. Daniel you spend all this time trying to make digital look like film. Why not use film . Charlie choose film. Did you want him to do this . Did you get on your knees . All of those things. I was desperate for him. Because i felt that we had started something with skyfall and i had the pleasure of working with sam on road to perdition. I had a small part in that. I had fun doing it. But i felt like we were just starting to learn something about each other and working together that felt satisfying and creative. Sam has been kind to allow me to have an opinion. Charlie you really want to make this. You know it is going to be gangbusters. Is part of what you want to do how can i do this better, different, stretch the boundaries of bond . We went deep into his childhood. Sam both of us were agreeing, we would not want to do any of this and less we were doing all of those things. You have to push it in some way. There is no source material. We are trying to invent this from scratch. There is a huge amount of work that goes on with trying to bring a story together. That is where the work is done. We would sit down together and i dont know about you but there is something that started to snowball. The creatives started coming into the room and the enthusiasm because of skyfall, and a sense of a lot of goodwill, people came in firing on all cylinders. Charlie who is in the room . Sam the truth is, it was odd for me because as a director you are used to being the one in control ultimately. To come onto a franchise where you have someone you know and is your friend, who knows more about it than you do, who has made two bond movies and played the part before, there was i was asking daniel to play the role, playing catchup. He is weak throughout. He is upbeat behind every one. In the end of skyfall, he has failed. I loved working with him but he wasnt released into the role because it was like putting him into a straitjacket. On top of that he had more experience with me than me. We want to let each other let rick and away. At the beginning i said you are ahead of everybody. No one knows what he is up to. That is going to allow us much more freedom. This allows him more freedom, and any time you have an idea, just do it. You dont even have to ask me. If you have a line, just do it. That freedom, the second and third time he did the role, with harrison, they stuck less and less in the script. You get a shorthand going and you just know that you know the world properly. There is no standoff anymore. You are fully invested. All of the people returned. Everyone returned. Not only actors like ray finds, but also crew members, everybody. And where there was a sense of skyfall, can this guy do an action movie . Is it going to be in our house bond . They just wanted to do the best we can. We are all wearing our skyfall jackets and tshirts. They would have gone everywhere with us. That is unusual but it is because we went and made a movie before with everyone else. Charlie give an example of where you went off script. Does anything come to you . Daniel obviously in interview situations very little. One of my favorite sections of the movie for me, the most difficult thing is to combine in the middle of bruising action, a love story. One of the things i was concerned about and worried about was trying to have something that was delicate and intimate. We are lucky because lea gives a stunning performance. A lot of what daniel said, he just invented it. There are lines throughout that scene. Just speaking as he thinks. There are funny lines also. A good example, a rollsroyce is coming out of the desert. Its a completely surreal image. She says what is that . The line is, it looks like our ride or Something Like that. Daniel said that is a 1948 rolls royce. That is the only thing you can get away with in a bond movie. Its a better line on so many levels. He wasnt quite committed because he thought and mike committed to it . Am i allowed . I said it is great. Having the courage to not feel judged by me, that is a good example. A good example of how you can shift tones without not away from dialogue but in the beginning he collapses, he falls through a building. He was supposed to land on his feet. I said before that why dont you land on the sofa. He said great. Where is that . That is the first time it allows the audience to say even though it is serious, the last movie had a toughness to it, a grimness to it. It was not always certain we were allowed to. I want to be clear from the beginning we wanted to loosen up a bit and have a bit more mischief. Charlie what did you want to add . Vulnerability . Daniel my only intention was ever to sort of the center of a big movie, it doesnt matter how outrageous it is. If you believe in the central characters, youre going to have a better time. I think she is flawed. He kills people for a living. He lives alone. He sleeps with lots of women. I find that fascinating. That appeals to me. Charlie and why is he like that . Daniel and also, you have to see someone who has weaknesses on screen. Otherwise they are twodimensional. Charlie and you want them to be three at least. Daniel at least three. Charlie people have noticed there is a serialization, with the movies. A happy accident. By the time sam did skyfall it seemed to make sense. We came to do this movie and we wanted to tie up some loose ends. They fitted well. Sam even daniel was uncertain about the freudian touches of the last movie. Seeing the reason for bond becoming bond as a child. Are we going to get away with this . I was not sure we were. Now it looks like it was a given but we were showing a character who is aging. Everyone is saying you are getting too old. Daniel was entirely 100 about. [laughter] on top of that we had a character dying which is unheard of in a bond movie. I thought we would be hit with we want escapism. We dont want to be told people are aging. We are told they dont have to worry about this stuff. So the fact that people embraced it and allowed us to go further to tell a second story, obliquely. Charlie there are things that seem to be needed. The chase scene at the beginning. You have to do something dramatic in the first three or four minutes. Or not . Daniel you are shortchanging people if you dont. Charlie that is interesting. Because they want that and expect that . Daniel because it sets the town. I think that when i look back at movies, as a kid in the cinema, those first five minutes or whatever it is. Sam 10 minutes. Charlie before he is doing something. Daniel before the credit sequence. Sam daniel sarah has been around 10 minutes. For me the first bond movie was north by northwest. Hitchcock has the best line about casting the stars. Why are you always casting Jimmy Stewart . Because it saves me 10 minutes of exposition. The audience has a relationship already. That is true with bond. They already know bond. That gives you the freedom and a bond movie. For 10 minutes you dont really have to tell them what is going on. You can offer to play catchup with no explanation and expect them to shadow the central character. I felt the freedom of that. It was not a burden. Charlie the other saying is a fascinating villain. You have to have somebody who is beyond. Yes. He has to be smarter and tougher . Sam i think its an interesting thing. This time we wanted to go to the top. We wanted there to be no one above this person. Charlie the head of spectre. Sam absolutely. We wanted to raise the stakes. Charlie do you share that . Raise the stakes, do something with it . I remember hearing something about sam, that we would look at each other and go is this good enough . What we have just done . We did a number of times. We would look at each other and go not happy. Charlie youd see it in his eyes . Sam you have to let it sit for a bit. Scenes that are wobbly sometimes turn out fine. Both scenes, a scene in skyfall which is pivotal between bond and m that we reshot, the equivalent scene with bond and money penny we reshot because it was a springboard for the story on so many levels. We shot them early and then watched the movie develop. We said im going to go back. I did leaving go back to the end of the sentence and he said thats fine. Charlie i was going to ask that. How often do you want to do that . Daniel less than you think. There is a relief sometimes when you have done stuff and you there are some things you are nervous about but when it is clear, and there is the time it is a luxury that we did it. Charlie how do you know when you have done enough bond . [laughter] daniel i dont know. Charlie you will know when you know . Daniel ill know when ill know. I can honestly say i have enjoyed making this movie more than the others put together. Charlie all the other bond movies. You enjoyed making spectre. Daniel probably because of him and the relationship we sort of have. The trust thing. Sam had my back. I could zone out. My tendency was on the past movie is was i felt like i needed to control everything. Im the guy in the front, who has to be in charge. Sam took that away from me and allowed me to be an actor which i havent done for a long time. It is a hard one. Sam it was a really tough shoot because it was long. Lots of countries. It was grueling. People were injured and all sorts of stuff. But it was more fun. It was more exciting. The thing about doing another one, you are running a marathon. Do you want to run another marathon . Just let me [indiscernible] sit down and feel good about finishing and then i will have a think. But it is a marathon. Charlie why does bond have a hold on audiences . Is it the character, or you are the guy who knows it. Daniel i have grown to know what it is. I was a rabbit in the headlights when i did Casino Royale. The producers, i said i dont know how im going to do this. This is a tall order. I dont know why you are casting me. It is the last thing i expected. But if you allow me to get involved, to be part of the process, i can do it. Because i can feel like i want to be a filmmaker. I dont want to be just the gun for hire. I want to feel like i am part of the process. Because i have to invest myself in this, everything i have in this. This is a onceinalifetime chance. They dont come around very often. They let me have it and be part of it. That has been a huge learning curve for me. I have developed more as a filmmaker. I want to produce, i want to find material. Charlie but you have roles you still want to play. Daniel doing spectre has reminded me how much i love doing this. Ive been doing it for 30 years. I love acting. Charlie would you have been willing to direct bond if it was not daniel craig . Sam the reason i came on board is this is no secret but they asked did i think my friend, daniel craig would make a good bond and i said no. I didnt. At that point i couldnt equate what bond had become. Urbain, eyebrow raising, sauve. With this nutter i worked with in chicago. Then i saw Casino Royale. It was like the return of something. It was not an accident. It was a great story. They had the courage to remove camp from the franchise along with supporting characters. Daniel not that im not camp. Charlie especially in the ads. Ive seen you selling. [laughter] charlie i should take a look at these clips. Here it is. [laughter] i will do one. Roll tape. [sounds of fighting] charlie [inaudible] and physical by the way. Daniel that is just the way i have started them. I actually find it fun. That sequence itself, we had six weeks of for rehearsal. Off and on during other parts of rehearsal. It ends up being a dance routine. But it is choreography. It is a lot of fun. David in that scene is a supreme athlete and a joy to work with. He does not break into a sweat. Im literally like [laughter] it is what he does. Im just trying to get out of the way. Charlie what was the challenge of shooting that . The camera work. Sam i am very oldfashioned with action to be frank. Im a believer in continuity, not crossing the line, screen direction remaining the same see can follow where every punch is going. Im not a fan of throw some cameras up. Broken mirrors. It makes it very pedestrian to shoot and very satisfying i think to watch but it is slower. In Casino Royale he did everything for real and you believed in the jeopardy and he was viable and capable of beating someone to a pulp. He has had to continue that. That moves through 4 carriages and it is a significant set piece. It was really satisfying when you put it together but to shoot it is painstaking. Charlie in skyfall was a hard to kill off judi dench . Sam it was difficult because there was something about her spirit. I love her. She is an extraordinary person. Like a good luck charm. She makes everyone better. She is one of those actors who is incapable of doing a bad take. Everyone is good. She has an amazing effect on everyone around her. I asked charlie how did you . Sam we have to tell her agent first so she can break the news rather than break it to her over lunch. And she arrived and looked at me and said here i and tear stained and livid. [laughter] but she took it. I think it was tricky. It was difficult. It was part of her life for 20 years. It is an extended family. Barbara makes it so. It is difficult for someone like that to feel like they are not part of it anymore. Charlie how do you find a balance . You are going to do othello. What is your plan for finding when to do it . Charlie what did you knew . Daniel i lost my acl. I have great people around me. Charlie in this scene . Sam and its that take. Charlie could i see that i looked . Daniel no. No. [indiscernible] that gives me some time off and that is the way i am going to deal with the next six months. Then i want to do othello. We start rehearsing next year. Charlie its opening where . Daniel at the manhattan theater workshop. New york city workshop. Charlie and one more scene. This is number three. Lets see them together. Information is all, is it not . For example, you must know by now that the double low program is dead, which leads me to speculate why you came. So, james, why did you come . To kill you. And i thought you came here to die. It is a matter of perspective. Charlie wow. [laughter] daniel fun, isnt it . Charlie it is. What else is next . Other than getting well. Daniel not thinking about james bond, i think we are in that boat. Charlie how long does it take . Sam two and a half years. Charlie total . Sam 69 months working on the script while doing other things and then complete for two years. With the pressure on big movies to deliver, movies take longer to make these days. If you are doing something for real. It involves traveling the world, which we did. Charlie there is no smart way to ask this. Are you already think about doing it again or will you do for that . Daniel it is literally one of those things have been said and ive said in the press. Two days after i finished filming. No, of course not. [laughter] i would work with him again tomorrow. I love the family i work with on this. Ive had an amazing time doing this one. But i need six months. Literally just to think about Something Else and clear my mind. I dont want to begin a debate because it becomes about Something Else. We have spent two years producing this movie. We are very proud of it and want as many people to see it. All people are talking about is who is going to be the next james bond. Sam ones life is not a democracy by a dictatorship. However much they may try to persuade you. Charlie you are doing other stuff . Sam no. Im unemployed. Charlie thank you for coming. It is great to see you again. Charlie we continue with sam mendes. He is an Academy Awardwinning director. He directed spectre. His previous film skyfall became the most successful bond film of all time. It is scheduled to go on a National Tour beginning in january of 2000 exchange. I am pleased that he continues with us. Is this something that interest you not only as a director, producer, but as an entrepreneur . Sam its not me producing it. It is the roundabout theatre. When i came over to new york with no track record in this town, and todd said we want to make this show, i said you can only do it if we can find a nightclub. Eventually we found the sondheim. A crane fell on the theater. Then we moved it to studio 54. That kind of dogged belief in the show is what made it. I came to do it on broadway with Michelle Williams and emma stone, and sienna miller. This is just an extension of that. It is a show i love, a piece i love. I am proud of the production but it is a great piece of musical theater, one of the greats. Charlie what makes it that . Sam a combination of the way music is used throughout. It has politics. A moment when the world changed. It does it in that kind of incredibly condensed way. But on a base level it has great tunes, unbelievable characters, a literary pedigree. It has these short stories. On the other hands, the great era of fossae and the giants of the 70s. It has all of those things and it is the best of all of them. Charlie when you think of yourself as a director you think of yourself as a theater director . Sam not anymore. For a while i did. But doing the bond movies and working on that scale, i do feel comfortable on a movie set now. I do feel like i know what i am doing. Charlie it is as satisfying . Sam yes but a different part of the process. Reversals are everything. In theater that is where the creation takes place. In film it is the other end of the process, the editing room where you feel in control. Charlie do you find yourself saying we did not get what i needed . Sam all the time. All the time. You are constantly dancing around what you have missed. Hopefully you have enough that you actually did get but i dont think many directors can bear to watch their own movies after they have finished them. All you see are flaws. Charlie you cant watch them more than once or twice. Sam when it is finished, some movies from the day i finished them i have never seen again. Maybe on cable for 10 minutes. Then there are some that you go back and revisit because you are interested. Charlie primarily because you see things you wished you had done, or simply that you have done it . Sam it is difficult to explain. You feel resentful of them in a way. You are so much a part of them and then you have to leave them behind. But you cant see them with clarity for a few years. Sometimes you say im asked a proud of that film. At the time i was confused and conflicted about it and member it badly but now sometimes its the other way around. You cant wait to see it and then it is disappointing. Charlie i thank you did this and listed 10 pieces of advice for aspiring directors. Sam young directors thinking of directing an action movie. It was tongueincheek. Charlie get in touch with your inner 12yearold. He or she was an interesting kid. Is there something to that . Sam oh yes. For me, doing bond was going back to myself, you have to find the kid that was taken by that world, the world of adults and danger, and sexuality, and weirdness, that when i was 12, it was a thrilling moment. I remember it vividly. To try and take away your ingrained snobbery, which is there to some degree and has been there with bond over the years because it is considered a bmovie. There is all that, trying to find a way to view it. Charlie you said you can only ever point the camera at one thing at a time. Sam i think there is a tendency charlie to try to do too much. Sam at the same time. Its a personal thing. Some film makers create the kind of whirlwind of energy which is to do with having multiple cameras but i can only concentrate on one thing at a time. If you dont youre going to work faster. You are not really sure what youre looking at. Charlie you are playing roulette with someone elses money. If you bet it all on black, you need to explain why. Sam yes. You knew to be able to explain. Not that you need to explain, but you need to have the particular see articulate of why you need 8000 costumed extras in mexico city and three helicopters. Why 2000 when be ok. Charlie this is a huge point in life. If you dont know it well enough to explain it, then you dont know it well enough. Whatever you want to do. Sam i think that is true. The other thing is you have to charlie some things are not explainable. Sam but it is a total privileged to make a film. You are using someone elses money. You write a novel, you just sit down and youre not costing anyone anything. Someone may pay you in advance but basically you are in isolation and you have the freedom. You cant work as a director unless someone pays an enormous amount of money to make the film you want to make. Charlie making an action sequence is only interesting when you are in the cutting room. I mentioned this, up until then it is the most tedious thing you will ever do. Do you mean that . Sam yes. Action is really you have to be so meticulous. You are doing action for real. I dont think it is a crusade as set so much as a fact that audiences are more engaged when they feel it is really happening. You are trying to strike between cgi and real specialeffects and it is tricky when youre in a bond world. But yeah, it is slow. You have to disconnect your impatience. I was frustrated when i started doing sky fall. My rhythm is a theater rhythm. I like to shape it. You cant do that with action. It is very slow. Once you do it and realize how to put it together, it starts becoming interesting. Charlie on the day, the prepared, but be prepared to make stuff up. [laughter] sam yes. That is what i was saying with daniel. However much you plan, and how vast the structure is that is supporting you, and are thousands of people, you have to remain free in front of the camera. It doesnt matter how much money you are spending, if what is happening in front of the camera is not interesting, it is meaningless. You do have to maintain an improvisation element even as Everything Else is wellplanned. Charlie do you find the best actors are like daniel . That sam no, every actor is different. Bond is a difficult part to play. One inch to the left, one inch to the right emotionally and it is to real, too casual, to devil may care, to camp. That suit is a straitjacket. You have to hold yourself, you have to look good, look cool. Youre a style icon. And also to give an emotional reality to the character is tricky. Everyone has an opinion. Every Single Person out there. Bond should be this, bond should be that. He was terrified when he did Casino Royale at the time. But i think, i remember as a director you have the same thing. I went to turkey on the last movie and i got out of the car, we are thrilled to have you here, there he nice, there is they are so much better now that they are not trying to be funny. Then i went in 10 steps and the woman said are you going to put jokes in this one . Everyone has a different version. Charlie you say you need to when you are choosing collaborators, do not listen to the people who tell you yes but ive never done a big movie. If they are any good they will learn. Sam there is a definite suspicion of bringing people, encouraging them to migrate from television into a large scale moviemaking. And i think that sometimes the studio will say theyve never done a big movie. Theyve done a great bit of cinematography but it seems crazy now because they did sky fall and it was suspicion of bringing roger deacons in. But hes a great cinematographer. Isnt he arty . And tom is newman who did the score. That is how it works sometimes. That feeling that there are people that do big and small, i dont believe that at all. Charlie you need to learn to tune out the white noise. You cannot please everyone. Sam and there is white noise. You have to embrace the dialogue with the audience, which is a little bit like listening to the white noise, because if you make a normal movie, you have basically you make the film, you make a trailer, you release the trailer comment you get awareness of the film and then the movie comes out. Bond, there is a press conference. They review the press conference, the song, the singer, the poster, the trailer, the teaser trailer. The choice of director. Everything is a dialogue and you have to embrace that. That is part of the process. A movie like spectre can compete with Something Like game of thrones or mad men who have a weekly dialogue with their audience. At the same time, dont read the reviews. Charlie would you be prepared to do Something Like game of thrones . Sam god yes. Charlie because you have sam the story. A 40 hour story. What could be better . That is what gives you a kick. I get a kick out of story. Many of the best films are over the last 20 years has been i challenge anyone to find anything better than the wire for the sopranos. It is an unbelievable piece of work on any level. Breaking bad. Its not news to anyone. I think and to the detriment of movies because the middle ground of movies has migrated to television. The movies i made when i started out, i could not make those movies with a major studio now for the money i spent even then. They are either very small or very big. There is nothing in the middle. That is because of television being so strong. Charlie the home for things in the middle . Sam there is a kind of fearlessness about television now which is amazing. Audiences are embracing it. That is not hollywood backing off of serious movies. It is audience is not going to serious movies. They fulfill a demand. If they go to television that is what they are going to make. Charlie tarantino, spielberg, scorsese, jj, paul tom is anderson shoot on film. There is a reason. Sam it is not about film is better or worse. Ive shot in digital. I shot skyfall in digital. There should be a choice. It has to be preserved. Almost the biggest loss has already happened. A film projection is now dead. That is something that should be mourned. The end of an era. But it is amazing to work on films. Charlie you are trying to surf the big wave but be prepared to wipe out when you catch it. It feels like nothing else. How many times have you caught it . Sam half a dozen times in each movie when you feel like this is nothing better. We did a scene in mexico city. In order to achieve the shot thousands of people, thousands of people have to be working together an absolute unison, all at the same time. When it is done each year that goes up, the excitement for people who work on the crew who have never seen anything like this, that is a thrill. I was aware as i was doing it i will probably never do it again. It is a particular, different emotional buzz than you get from a scene that has been beautifully rendered by two great actors, and the cameras capture the magic. It is weekly it is equally valid. Charlie when you get excited dont be afraid to leave out of your chair and sing the bond theme. Sam weve all done it. Charlie with respect to you, you have enjoyed this experience. You have learned things. Do you learn anything that affects what you do on stage . Sam not really. Its totally different. But what i did on stage did a fresh affect this. I look at it now and i can see it is in all sorts of little areas. I have been doing the greatest blinding seen in the history of literature. But it doesnt always work the other way. I love the theater for the opposite of what i described. Calm, privacy, focus. The purity of it. The story that can go the distance between the idea and the story is so short. Charlie do you have any of session . Any dream, any sense but before i dive, this i have to do. Sam it is all sport related. It is all charlie swim the English Channel . Sam no, the things that fascinate me and still make me i love what i i do. Im a fan of great managers and players, great musicians, all of those things i feel like its pushed away when you make these films. I would love to have an opportunity to follow some of those people to tell those stories for real. I would love to make documentaries, to do things that are close to reality. Charlie about people that have achieved a level of greatness . Sam that i admire. Charlie to capture what it is to capture their being, their process, their mindset . Their preparation, all that . Sam it is interesting. It is what you do when you try to get to the center of somebody and work out what makes them tick. You have to choose carefully. And also, to remind people that there is still wonder in the world. I know that sounds corny but there is we live with remarkable people and there are remarkable people out there. I think that is something that film can do very well. Charlie someone said to me there are two kinds of profiles. The tragedy of it all, or the wonder of it all. Sam yeah, that is brilliant. Charlie thank you. Great to see you. Thank you. Sam as always. Charlie sam mendes, director of spectre. Thank you for joining us. Narrator the contemporary art world is vibrant and booming as never before. It is a 21st century phenomenon, a Global Industry in its own right. Brilliant ideas looks at the artists at the heart of this, artists with a unique power to astonish, challenge, and surprise. In this episode, theaster gates