official acts that are being covered by executive privilege are breaking into the capitol and trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power by certifying the electoral college. how that fits into the notion of what executive privilege is supposed to cover, i really don't know. >> i mean, look, the better argument here -- >> i think that's the -- i think that's the better argument, though, if i'm on the other side of this and i'm sitting there saying, okay, what was the privilege intended to cover? so let's -- >> he doesn't have a privilege. >> what was the privilege intended to cover? i agree with ben in that in this instance, it's going to be very hard to argue that it's in the national interests to protect that privilege. right? >> but you don't even have a privilege to exercise, and there's a reason that this has only happened when former presidents have asked current ones, jim. >> right. they asked current presidents, and it's traditionally been the