Transcripts For CNNW Crossfire 20140303

To switch the blame, but president obamas weak Foreign Policy is the real problem. The debate starts right now. Tonight on crossfire a stern warning to Vladimir Putin. Russias on the wrong side of history on this. But republicans say president obama is mishandling russia. This is the ultimate result of a feckless Foreign Policy where nobody believes in americas strength any more. On the left, sally kohn, on the right, Newt Gingrich. In the crossfire Lawrence Korb who supports the president and Danielle Pletka, one of the president s harshest critics. Is Vladimir Putin pushing around the u. S. Because the president is weak . Tonight on crossfire. Welcome to crossfires breaking News Coverage of the crisis in the ukraine. Im sally kohn on the left. Im Newt Gingrich on the right. In the crossfire tonight, two guests who disagree on president obamas handling of the crisis in ukraine. Were in the most dangerous challenge to the International Community since Saddam Hussein squeezed kuwait and in the coming days the Obama Administration will only make things more dangerous. Listen as president obama sits is helpless in the oval office trying to shame the russian leader into behaving better. The steps russia has taken are a violation of ukraines sovereignty, ukraines territorial integrity, that theyre a violation of international law. Nice talk from a former professor of law, but Vladimir Putin has indicated he doesnt care what the americans or europeans think. Putin has complete dominance in the immediate region and intends to use it. This is a real crisis. The dangers are going to resound around the world. Decisions being made right now will change history. I agree. Interesting that republicans wouldnt make any of those decisions differently. They just complain about them. In the crossfire tonight obama supporter Lawrence Korb and obama critic Danielle Pletka who worked for the Senate Foreign relations committee. As we sit here right now cnn is reporting that obama is putting together a crippling package of sanctions against russia. Isnt this exactly what republicans have been demanding and arenting going to criticize obama anyway . First of all, i dont think we should characterize any of this. These are serious matters. The people of ukraine have more thins on their mind than american petty politics. Id love to see sanctions put in place by the Treasury Department but at the end of the day what were going to really need is critical american leadership. Unfortunately for the president , its that word credible where he has a real deficit. He let putin bring him down the garden path on syria, a country that was supposed to have given up all its kemic am weapons by february but has only given up 11 of them. What accountability have we heard demanded by the president. Whether its ukraine, china, syria, where wherever we see him, he just doesnt have what it takes to be taken seriously by foreign leaders. Is he credible . What do you think . I think hes more than credible. For example, if you go back and look at 208 when russia went into georgia, we did nothing. That was at the height of our involvement in iraq and afghanistan. Hes got the International Community to put sanctions. These arent going to be the treasury. These have to be international sanctions. Nobody, even the harshest critic, wants to put boots on the ground. Let me give you an example of why i think the credibility thing is a little bit tricky. Look at what the president said at one point today. Its remarkable. One thing right away is to work with the administration to help buy assistance to the ukrainians to the people and that government, when they get back in assuming the weather clear, that will be first order of business. Let me make two points, then give you a chance to respond. First is youre a russian, moscows had 85 inches of snow this year. The president said when the Congress Gets back in, assuming the weather cooperates. Youre thinking to yourself, is this guy like nuts . This is a sign of american toughness. Five inches of snow, congress collapses. U. S. In the spring will be back. Whats his first act . Obamas first act is always to spend money, but the truth is the number one supplier of energy to ukraine is russia. The number one debt is to russia. The president s proposing the american taxpayers send foreign aid to ukraine which will immediately go to russia. Which strikes me as putin saying fine hell be happy to take the taxpayers money. Thats nonsense. First of all, congress, by the way, is compared to when youre there, theyre never there. Theyre out all the time, they cant get anything done. He cant authorize any money through the imf unless the congress adopts it. Thats what hes trying to say. By the way, if youre talking about, you know, putin was going to lend money to ukraine. He lent them 3 billion which hes not going to get back. If you want to take over ukraine, youre taking over a bankrupt country. The idea that somehow another by saying we want to give the money, yeah, i think we ought to help them get out of bankruptcy just like General Motors or something. But wont that money wont a large part of the money go directly to russia . No, it wont go to the russians. Yanukovych who was their guy, he got elected because of the russian vote in crimea. You havent seen putin with him. When he was in russia he was standing behind a ukrainian flag, putin wouldnt even talk to him hen he was there. So ill agree with you, both russia and ukraine are corrupt. Thats what i worry about, getting it there will go to the corrupt ukrainians. Im not quite sure what youre talking about frankly, but there are a whole series of steps that the president could take. Sanctions are an important first step. Leadership is the sin na qua none of moving ahead. We dont sell gas to companies with which we do not have free trade agreements. We could undercut the russians immediately in the European Union by refusing to sell gas and cut the rug right out from putins feet. The one you said in the middle there, that leadership thing. You vaguely hinted at it before. A credibility issue. It seems like a hollow creditiq, all due respect. The president has been showing leadership by getting the World Community on the same page, something that the American Public was demanding for us to do. We dont want to go it alone in the world any more. Whats the alternative, more tough talk, is that it . All the policies on the table are exactly what republicans are asking for. You have john boehner out there calling him a thug. You want more of that . Is that helpful . Again, i think i try to make clear right at the outset that i think that sort of petty name calling is foolish. I think its foolish whether it comes from republicans or democrats. What i mean by leadership and im sorry that leadership is such a mystery to you that it needs to be defined but what i mean by leadership is really pulling forward and showing the resolve that this will not be tolerated by the United States. Are you saying is threaten military action . No, absolutely not. I think thats the kind of straw man that people keep building up. Tell us. Like saying boots on the ground. We can start selling gas to the European Union. We can start targeting ukraine officials and russian officials with banking sanctions. Theyll consider stopping the negotiations on easier visa permits. But we can show a lot more decisiveness in this. Angela merkel is really waffling on this, which she should be ashamed of. We can talk to the germans very decisively about what were going to do. The key thing is i agree. It doesnt work if just we do it. I worked for president reagan and the soviets went into poland to stop the solidarity movement, we tried to get the europeans not to buy gas this then the soviet union, they wouldnt do it. Thats where obama is i think excels, he gets the International Community to do it. The great irony here is if it wasnt for the russians, the sanctions against iran wouldnt be working. He was able to get the russians to work with us on iran which is a much are important threat to the United States than whether the russians are in crimea. You are also on the point of why this is all going to be a mess. The president calls on the russians for syria, the president calls on the russians for iran. There are certain things were doing in afghanistan that require russian forbearance. Theyre now a major supplier of energy to western europe because be followed the antienergy policy for a generation. First thing congress should do is not send foreign aid. First thing they should do is lift the prohibition on sending that gas to western europe, not that it will work overnight, but thats a very powerful sing nal to the russians and frankly, driving down the price of oil and gas is a strategy. It worked for the soviet union, it would work with putin because it takes away his resources. Im always fascinated with symbolic liberalism. The president gave us a taste of is about international law. You have a kgb colonel who spent his entire career breaking the law. Who is actually quite enthusiastic about doing whatever he wants. Why would anybody in the west believe that putin is i think he could be affected by real sanctions that had real bite, but lecturing him on some vague International Legal structure will strike him almost as childish. Fact, if you read what putin told the United Nations about international law, it was exactly the same thing. I think hes trying to show hes a hypocrite. And interesting, what happened to the russian stock market today . Down 11 . Their ruble is going down. You know, David Ignatius put it very well this morning when he quoted, as you would know, your old military historian background. As napoleon said, never interfere with an enemy when hes making a mistake. This is a big mistake that putin has made. Thats right. And a lot of people say it shows the desperation of russia. Next ill explain why i wouldnt be surprised if republicans are in fact getting ready to send Vladimir Putin a great big thank you card. Your eyes depend on a unique set of nutrients. 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Lets close new at t mobile share value plans our best value plans ever for business. What does an apron have to do with Car Insurance . An apron is hard work. An apron is pride in what you do. An apron is not quitting until youve made something a little better. What does an apron have to do with Car Insurance . For us, everything. Welcome back to crossfires breaking News Coverage of the crisis in the ukraine. Were debating president obamas handling of russia. Republicans are practically cheering for Vladimir Putin today. Hes given them a new excuse to bash president obama. Republicans are out in droves suggesting that if the president werent such a weak leader, putin wouldnt be threatening the ukraine. Did the same republicans call george w. Bush weak when he invided in 2008 . No. Second, what do obamas critics want . They want economic sanctions to be on the table. Well there could even be ultimately asset freeze, visa bans, there could be certainly disruption of any of the normal trade routine. There could be business drawback on investment in the country. Theres an old russian proverb, to spite my mom ill freeze my ears off. Danielle, arent republicans systematically undermining the president trying to spite the president but in effect hurting americas standing in the world . First of all, i think polling shows uses that the president has done more to hurt our standing in the world than the republicans at this point. But thats immaterial. First of all, lets get a little bit of history straight. John mccain, who you goois have been showing on endless loop criticizing the president on ukraine, ripped george bushs head off on the issue of georgia, so did lindsey graham, mercilessly a and without a lot of attitude from the republican white house. No labeling them hypocrites. Theyre people of principle. I agree wholeheartedly. Bush made a pathetic showing in georgia, i think it was one of the things that encouraged putin to believe with an even weaker president he could go further. Second of all, these arent games. Always lovely to talk about american domestic politics as if its somehow more important than the lives of the ukrainian people. I wasnt saying this is a game at all. You said it was a game in your open. Well, the difference here is that once upon a time we have this sort of gentlemans and gentlewomans agreement no we didnt. That our politics ended at the waters edge. Rubbish. Instead of getting behind the president and together as a country uniting to deal with this crisis, republicans are out there undermining the president s leadership in the world. Its absolutely not true. First of all, never stopped at the waters edge, if you recall after the First World War we didnt join the league of nations, i think that was probably a moment in the last century before you were born but certainly when politics didnt stop at the waters edge. It never stopped at the waters edge. This is about National Interests and about the security of the world. What we want to ensure is that putin doesnt view the crimea as hitler viewed the land that we dont have to engage later on. A little bit of toughness. Let me ask, the two point, one in the 2008 campaign, one in the 2012 campaign that i think could have easily misled putin, take a look at it for a second. Now, we also cant return to a cold war posture with respect to russia. Its important that we recognize there are going to be some areas of common interest. When you were asked whats the biggest geopolitical threat facing the u. S. , you said russia, not al qaeda, you said russia. In the 1980s and now are calling for their Foreign Policy back because the cold wars been over for 20 years. So the question i have is pretty straightforward. The president had secretary clinton go out with a reset butt button. Theyve had all these gestures. If you were putin wouldnt you take from all that that theres a pretty high level of willingness on the part of the Obama Administration to give you a pass if you do a few small thing, like say take crimea . I think the real thing is and the president was correct, this is not the cold war where its a zero sum game. During the cold war we allied ourselves with very unsavory characters because we did not want the soviet union to get ahead. Thats the point. Its not a zero sum game. There are things we could work on. For example, had you not had what everybody criticized, you would have never gotten the russians to help support those sanctions against iran. Theyre not a geopolitical foe. Theyre a declining power. This is going to make them weaker because there are going to be a lot of people in ukraine who might have worked with them, but after this theyre not going to do it. Interesting if you take a look, they control two parts of georgia, but the others are trying to move toward nato. And thats what you really want in the long term is to move these countries, you know, more toward europe. And i think the fact that we got remember, the europeans mediated the first thing with yanukovych and the opposition. So to get them involved i think is important because by ourself we cant deal with putin. Its their backyard, they need to work on it. I think youre seeing this. I dont know what Angela Merkel said in the phone call but the fact is she did call and at the end she said this guy needs to get on his meds essentially what she said. That would be a better right. Is he right . I would be very unhappy to see him wavering. The europeans cant even agree with president obama that we need to slow down on the g8 thats going to be taking place in sochi. I think thats very troubling. I also think a lot of our nato allies are very, very worried. Some of them have substantial russian minorities. Theyve asked for nato to come in and talk about that. They want to be sure that were going to stand with them if the russians start threatening them. And were really not making a show of strength, either here, frankly, or in nato. Ill toss to both of you. Putins not out of touch with ra reality. Putin is looking at the europeans being frightened, looking at their economies, being afraid of what hes going to do to their supply of natural gas. And putins calculus is, he can run over all of us, because were not going to get together. And i think its very, very dangerous. What you just described at the european reaction, if they wont even drop in on the g8, that is a sign of being able to tolerate a level of violence that is very sobering. If this thing gets out of hand, they will drop them. Youve already heard the british say they will do it. The french have said, they will do it. So were moving in that direction. I think what theyre trying to do is, say, okay, well give you a little bit of wiggle room, but if you keep up with this, youre going to pay a price for it. And again, look at what happened to the russian ruble and stock market today. He cant keep doing that or the russians will get upset. The difference here is, tough talk and bluster in a universal fashion, or taking some time. Yes, its going to take some time. This is an evolving crisis to get the europeans on the same page. Is that weak in your mind, to take time, not speak out more strongly, not put stronger options on the table without our allies behind us . Is that what makes allowing putin to believe that were going to back down and tolerate his occupation and effective annexation of crimea is a huge mistake. That is what weve done with georgia. That is the reality of today, is that we accept it, is that we accept the defactto Russian Occupation of two regions of georgia. It didnt stop us from going to the olympics. It didnt stop anything. It didnt stop the g8. The fact is that putin is the one who gets us. Stay here. We want you at home to weigh in on todays fireback question. Who has a stronger hand in the crisis in ukraine . Tweet putin or obama using crossfire. Well have the results after the break. Well also have the outrage of the day. Im outraged that anyone would be surprised by what Vladimir Putin is doing. Nothing says, youre my 1 copilot, like a milkbone biscuit. Say it with milkbone. This is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. 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Com allowed him to identify and better address the issue. And drive off into the sunset. Experian. Live credit confident. ™ its amanda. Hey sweetie. What . [phones rings] okay, ill send it. One hundred seventytwo dollars for a chemistry book, what is it, made of gold . Just use citi popmoney. Boom. Ah, shes feeling lucky. Hey sweetie. Cancun, yeah no, youll be spending spring break with your new chemistry book. With citi popmoney its easy to send money to just about anyone, anytime. Visit your local branch or citi. Com easierbanking to learn more. Welcome back to crossfire. Its time for our outrages of the day. So, im thrilled that 12 years a slave won best picture at last nights oscars. Rush limbaugh, on the other hand, said 12 years a slave won because it had the magic word in the title, slave. No. It won because its an exquisite film. But, thank you, mr. Limbaugh, for reminding us how far hollywood and america still have to travel on issues of race and racial justice, as adam sirrer wrote today, most films that tell stories of people of color are oftentimes movies about the exceptional white people who ultimately triumph against evil. 12 years a slave was not this. But the fact that most other hollywood films are is still sad and outrageous and exactly what makes the 12 years a slave so remarkable. Its remarkable, but i personally was pulling for the dallas buyers club. That was my second choice. Two great films. Im outraged that anybody would be surprised by what Vladimir Putin is doing. Not just the brutality in crimea, but in all of russia. Why would anyone think of him as a kinder, gentler leader . Hes a former colonel in the kgb. Bob gates described him as a stonecold killer. And yet we seem to be continually surprised when he acts like a stonecold killer. We need policies pacy ies based reality. And Vladimir Putin is a reality. Now i completely agree. We would have been more persuaded if you would have said that shirtless wrestling a bear. That would have been disgusting. Now, who has a stronger hand on the crisis in ukraine . Right now, 31 say president obama, 369 say putin. What do you two think of those results . Well, im not surprised, because people dont like to see people do other things. But i was thinking about that, the russians, the soviets, 56 in poland and hungary, what did we do . Quickly, danielle . Im not surprised by the results, but i am disappointed and i disagree. I think the president as a stronger hand. Hes just not playing it. Well have to end it there. Thank you so much to lawrence and danielle. The debate continues online at cnn. Com crossfire as well as on facebook and twitter. From the left, im sally cohn. From the right, im Newt Gingrich. Join us tomorrow for another edition of crossfire. Erin Burnett Outfront starts right now. Next, a military storm. Thats what ukraine says. Russian is threatening tomorrow morning. President obama taking a long, hard look at what to do. Can anything stop putin . Plus, shocking the testimony in the trial of oscar pistorius. A witness describes bloodcurdling screams on the night pistorius shot and murdered his girlfriend. And what happens when a meets a crocodile . Its not pretty. Lets go outfront. And good evening, everyone. Im erin burnett. Outfront tonight, i want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world