Welcome to the whole story. Im anderson cooper. November will mark the 60th Anniversary of the assassination of president john kennedy. Over the years a number of wellknown Conspiracy Theories have flourished. Who really pulled the trigger . Were the russians behind it . Was the cia involved . But theres one Conspiracy Theory you may not know about. The belief that president kennedy and his son, john f. Kennedy jr. , who died in a plane crash in 1999, are actually alive and in hiding. It may sound preposterous to you, but there are those who absolutely believe this. They formed a group which some are calling a cult and are led by a qanon believer. This group holds so much influence over their members, some have even abandoned their spouses, their parents, their grandchildren. For the past year cnns Donie Osullivan has been investigating whats behind this conspiracy. Over the next hour he takes us across the country to meet the believers, confront their leader, and spend time with their confused, frustrated, helpless families who just want their loved ones to come home. Whoo God Bless AmericaWord On The Street is that junior, jfk jr. , will show up and introduce his parents. You are expecting jfk jr. . Absolutely. The same time of day jfk sr. Was shot here in this spot. Any minute now the big reveal. And then after that . Hell probably be the Vice President with trump. I believe today is going to be biblical. You dont believe jfk is dead . No. Reporter this woman, pamela esquin, calls her nanny coat. When i met her in dallas she told me she left her family in louisiana 16 months ago because of her belief in this. So what was your question . You pointed over there. Reporter so jfk got assassinated just a few yards from here. So did jesus christ. Reporter what about jfk jr. . I believe hes alive. Reporter so that he didnt die in a plane crash . No, he didnt. Reporter you think that was staged somehow . Yes, it was. Its a war. Its a war against good and evil and theyve been trying to kill the bloodline of jesus christ forever. Reporter a blood line. A blood line, yes. Reporter these women also believe in president kennedys resurrection. Abraham lincoln was a direct descendant of jesus christs blood line. Right. And then you would have your connection with donald trump, jfk jr. , and am i forgetting anybody . Well, Michael Flynn. General flynn. Elvis presley. Correct. They all come from the blood line. Jfk was a democrat. So i think people are confused why all these Trump Supporters love jfk so much. Well, because the system is rigged. Theres democrat, republican. It doesnt matter. Its all about values. A common belief is that president john f. Kennedy knew what the deep state was up to and so for that he was assassinated. This is hard for some people to believe because kennedy was a democrat and qanon is a far right group but kennedy was an extremely popular political figure. A whole people is lifted up. Reporter Jessalyn Cook is working on a book about the devastation Conspiracy Theories have caused for families across america. She says the Jfk Obsession is fringe even within Qanon Circles but still, it led to all these people showing up in dallas waiting for a kennedy. Jfk jr. Wanted to carry on the fight against the deep state and so he partnered with donald trump all these years ago and started plotting. But in 99 slow news day. He felt fear for his own life. He faked his own death in this plane crash and laid low for almost two decades. And the hope has been that jfk jr. Will eventually reemerge in person and take on the white house with donald trump. Reporter and so jfk was a democrat. So are you all democrats . Nope. Nope. No, im not. Not a republican either. Im a godfearing patriot. I think for people who really rallied around the jfk jr. Belief, qanon is less an ideology than an identity. These beliefs are part of who they are and facts cant change that. Its more important to belong to the group than to believe in the truth. Jfk is the Second Coming of jesus christ. Reporter how long have you believed that for . Since i first started listening to michael around april of 2021. When you spell out 120 it becomes 141, mr. President 141. Happy birthday mr. President reporter can you tell me about the first time you heard Michael Protzman . I dont even know how to explain the words, like how put it into words. It was just like this feeling. I cant explain it. Its just soothing. Its listening to him for hours, you know, and fall asleep to it. It was calming. And its not a voice just telling stories. You know its true. Jfk is your president. Trump is also your president. Junior is your Vice President. Jfk is the Second Coming of jesus christ. You are about to see him. Reporter thats the voice of this man. How much of this gathering here today are you responsible for . 98 of it. Reporter Michael Protzman. To his followers he is known as negative 48. Negative 48. Do i refer to you as negative 48 too . Thats fine. What does that mean . 48 is evil. Evil. E is five v is 22, i is 48. Negative evil. Negative 48. Reporter those numbers are gematriya, an ancient practice that assigns a numerical value to each letter in the alphabet. Nothing can stop what is coming. Trump is 316, john 3 16. Reporter what is it about Michael Protzman . He is just a teacher. God is using him to teach his perfect language. A is one. B is two. C is three. Reporter Michael Protzman convinced his followers that gematriya can be used to expose cabals and government secrets. Hes used it to build up Tens Of Thousands of followers on social media. In 2021 when he called his followers to dallas many believed theyd see the return of jfk or his son jfk jr. He said whos coming to dallas . And i just looked at my daughter and said i am. I said i am. Im going to dallas. I went home that night and told my husband. He was watching tv. He was actually watching cnn. And i told him. I said im going to dallas. He goes what . I said im going to dallas. He goes for what . I said i dont know. Im going to dallas. Actually i did say i said im going to dallas. Im going to meet jesus christ is what i told him. And he said youre nuts. Reporter what does it mean to be part of this group . It means everything. I would leave my family for 16 months for it. Its everything. I have two grandchildren that i adore and love. They are very young. And ive missed a couple of birthdays. Reporter after neither jfk nor his son materialized in dallas in 2021, most people went home and went on with their lives. But some stayed. He was only supposed to be in dallas for a few days . Yeah. Reporter leaving behind heartbroken families. Its true torture. No one should know this pain. Nobody. If you dont personally have someone close to you who has been sucked into this, you just dont know the pain its causing. We as a country i think have looked at qanon as this big joke. It is insane. But theres a lot of pain behind the insanity that has been happening in the darkness. Reporter the pain when a loved one gets lost Down The Rabbit Hole. One time we went to play tennis and he got a phone call. Jason believed it was junior calling him. Jfk jr. Calling him. And this was maybe a week before he went to dallas. Reporter so youre playing tennis with your brother. Yes. Reporter and he gets a call. Correct. Reporter and he thinks its jfk jr. He does. Reporter at that point are you like theres something seriously wrong here . Yes. But what do you do . And great savings. crowd cheers here, take mine. Farmers Mnemonic looks like its grime time huh . Dr. Garcia . Crest reality checkup. That grimy film on your teeth . 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This is scandalous. My name is jason. Reporter jason and erica didnt know each other existed until 2010 when erica who was adopted as a baby tracked down her birth family. And so at age 39 you found your long lost brother. I did. Reporter and he became one of your best friends. Yeah, he he did. Reporter jason, an air force veteran, moved to pittsburgh to be closer to his newfound sister. There he opened his own construction business. It was like id known him my whole life. We ate dinner together. I would say at least six nights a week. And we did everything together. Reporter what kind of guy was he . The best person i ever met. Hilarious. A great friend. Amazing uncle. He was the best of everything. So what happened . As the story goes, my youngest daughter said something along the lines of, yeah, one of my biggest fears is im going to get snatched off the street and trafficked. And he was like, what are you talking about . And i think that set him on a path of finding out, like, what was going on. Reporter it isnt clear if jason had already been searching Conspiracy Theories online before this, but erica says her brother was soon sucked into a Qanon Universe that includes the popular belief that celebrities and politicians, usually democrats, are involved in child trafficking. The claims are made with zero evidence. Child trafficking is a very, very real problem in this country, but qanon has latched on to those fears and exploited them and dramaticized them for its own gain. Reporter soon, erica says, her brother was fully Down The Rabbit Hole. Like he started to get invested in politics. After the 2020 election it just flared. It just started getting weirder. It was nonstop. It was all serious and doom and gloom. The thought that the National Guard was going to take over and you have to prepare. You have to have food for weeks on end. He just was consumed by these dreadful scenarios with the government. Reporter in october 2021 jason told his sister he was going to dallas. I didnt realize how involved he had become with many of these people in his online life. Kennedy it started very small. Kind of after the election, after trumps election was stolen, you know, as they say. She referred to him as the creator. Reporter this woman who asked me not to use her name told us how her mom, a school teacher, got sucked in. Reporter your mom, it starts for your mom after the 2020 election. She believes it was stolen. Then it goes all the way to her believing that jfk, jfk jr. Is going to show back up in dallas. Yes. That one came honestly kind of quickly. It kind of got jumbled but it started off with oh, jfk is going to come back and were meeting him at dealey plaza and he is going to run for president in 2024. Never died. It was a body double. And now donald trump is jfk jr. In a mask and it was just it just got crazier and crazier. Reporter her mom began traveling to spend time with protzmans group. Your parents live a few hours from dallas. Your mom starts coming back and forth from here. Tell me what happens. Yeah. She started going back and forth. It only really lasted a couple of weeks. But she started taking time off at work. My dad was not super concerned at first. He was like whatever you got to do go do it. She made friends, i guess. Then by i think the third visit that she took she didnt come back. And we didnt hear from her. Yeah. It was probably about a week that we didnt hear from her before we started calling the police. Reporter after multiple calls to police, her family eventually went to court. We got Emergency Guardianship of her and they went and took her to a psychiatric hospital. Reporter more than a year later how is she now . Shes fine now. She wants nothing to do with it. Shes just really embarrassed that it all happened and she let herself get sucked into it. Shes glad she got some help and shes doing much better. Reporter her mother is home. Ericas brother, jason, still attends trump rallies with protzmans followers. But the man standing next to jason, his family is not so lucky. Which one is that, mom . Thats claus. Reporter u. S. Marine veteran Claus Richter went to dallas, too. You remember last time you saw klaus before he left for dallas . Yeah. We sat up there in the living room. We sat for most of the Night Talking. I dont know why i was getting a little leery about it, maybe you just shouldnt go at all, you know . Reporter klaus looked after his mom here in sarasota, florida. But when he didnt come home from dallas, his family began to worry. I think with all of us, as time progressed and the longer he was gone, we all kind of started to get a little more concerned as to what was going on. Reporter klaus stayed in dallas and began traveling the country with Michael Protzmans group, going to a series of trump rallies. Photos and videos suggest he was having a good time, like here dancing in front of protzman. But his sister carmen says at one point he began to express concerns. He goes, somethings not right here. I go, what are you going to do . You want to get like extricated . Lets get you out. He was like he goes, just give me a day or two. Reporter but Klaus Richter never did leave the group. On april 14th, 2022 his sister carmen got a call from Michael Protzman. There was an accident and klaus is in the hospital. Im like, what . There is going to be a power line down. Ive got one confirmed injury. Reporter klaus was a passenger in this vehicle. The driver was this man, another member of protzmans group. What happened . Fell asleep. Mr. Richter, whats your middle name, sir . Traugott. Traugott. Okay. Thank you, sir. The Richter Family rushed from their homes here to this hospital in mobile, alabama. When they eventually got here they were not able to see klaus. One of the individuals from the group claimed to be his daughter. Reporter that woman began making decisions on klauss behalf according to medical records provided to cnn by his family. And when we explained to the hospital that he did not have a daughter they said, yes, its his daughter, you know, and mom basically explained to them, he doesnt have any children. Eventually we got up there. It was very disturbing. Reporter and youre a nurse. Yes, correct. I knew automatically that it was a very grave situation. He was intubated, had a tube pretty much the whole left side of his body was crushed. Reporter days later klaus was dead. His obituary notes how he loved god and america and was a caretaker for his mother, always helping as needed. I love you, my son. I love you. Reporter a grand jury in alabama voted in april 2023 to close the investigation into the crash, but the Richter Family is still looking for answers about the circumstances surrounding clauss death and his treatment at the hospital including how someone falsely claiming to be his daughter could make medical decisions on his behalf. When you lose somebody, especially somebody unexpectedly, you want answers. I hope they pay for what they did. Reporter we asked the university of South Alabama health which runs this hospital for answers. They say they investigated this incident and found the hospital had acted appropriately. We are the world, we are the children reporter but how do people get sucked into this world . Michael, how are you . Question. So youre done. Why do people like you so much . Are you a con man . No. I dont talk to prostitutes. The whores for globalist pimps. Get that out of my face. Shut the door. So researchers can help life underwater flourish. 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My born name comes to 182. Reporter okay. You know . Reporter so what does that mean, then . Well, every Alphabet Letter is coded. Every cult has these things that from the outside seem crazy. They have the secret codes. These easy ideas to complex questions are very appealing when you are emotionally vulnerable. Reporter Diane Benscoter runs antidote, an organization that helps people get out of cults. Diane knows a lot about cults because she says she was in one. I went from being a lost teenager to being a disciple of the Second Coming of christ. Reporter she was in the mooneys better known as the unification church. They believed their leader Sun Mung Moon was jesus christ. From the mansons its my world. I got rights that my fathers died for. That my uncles bled for. That my kin and my kind died for all down the road. Reporter to jonestown, to heavens gate. If you follow me, i can give you the good news of the kingdom of heaven. Reporter there has been no shortage of cults in america through the decades. Theyve all had leaders who present themselves as Messiahs Offering their followers warped biblical promises. Cults can be appealing during times of tumult where people are looking for answers. Experts say covid19 was the perfect storm. There is a pandemic and were told to stay inside and we dont know whats going on. 71699 was jfk jr. s plane crash date. Really . 7 could be 6 and 1. 61 is the red tie that trump wears, 122 equals jfk, jr alive. Reporter can you check what my name is . Of course. Lets do it. Reporter My Name Is Donie donie. 47. Yeah. But donie is 47. Okay. Reporter john is 47. Okay . See . Reporter so the significance of my numbers adding up to johns is . It just shows how powerful the language is. It shows our connection with god or with jesus christ or with the blood line. Reporter right. Of the good side. Negative 48 taught us gematria. Which is gods language. Reporter is gematria mentioned in the bible . That is a good question. Im not sure. Im not positive. I dont know that. Reporter how do we know its gods language . It just its mathematically impossible to have all of those coincidences. Human beings have psychological pain of different kinds. When they feel lost in their world, its relieved by these easy answers to lifes hard questions by these groups that claim theyre going to build a whole new world. Reporter whenever he talked to me he had to go far away from them so we can actually talk. Reporter so youre saying claus would be calling you. And he had to make sure that he could get away from them to talk. Reporter get away from who . The whole group. Okay. Lets go home. Oftentimes Family Members are considered the enemy because theyre the biggest threat and its disloyal to be talking to the enemy. I got cut off for eight weeks. So in the very beginning he wouldnt call me, he wouldnt text me. Im sure it was calculated. How else do you gain control of someones life unless you keep them from their life . Truth wins the day. 215. Reporter Michael Protzman built an audience on his negative 48 channel on the social media messaging app telegram. At one point he had more than 80,000 followers there and was a prolific user of the apps Audio Stream Feature where he preached for hours at a time. I just go simple. General patton is trumps father. And his uncle is jfk. And that means jfk jr. And trump are cousins. I think a lot of times people just looking on will say i dont see what people see in this guy. He just looks like an idiot. You know, people say that about cult leaders all the time. But theres, im sure, some sort of charisma that he has when hes talking with his followers that just makes him seem like lofty. Trumps first 15 words that night to came to 1,087. Zero means nothing. 187. So interesting and he knows so much. Reporter protzmans group has spent a lot of time here at the Hyatt Regency hotel in dallas. When is kennedy showing up . Hes here. Hes here. Reporter they call it the ark, another biblical reference. Trust the plan, 174. Reporter they travel the country going to trump rallies. Living on a prayer are you guys with negative 48 . Whoo reporter and they posted videos of stays in luxurious locations. How is he paying for all this . I know he cant possibly be paying his way at the hotel for months and months on end. Ive been told people are paying for him and they might pay for everyone. Reporter right now people are donating money because we dont have suits, dresses and stuff. Reporter until now little was known about Michael Protzmans background. Public records show he lived in Washington State. Prior to coming to dallas in 2021 his wife had filed for divorce. His business shut down. His house was foreclosed. And a Police Report details an altercation with his wife where she says he was believing Conspiracy Theories about the government. The shoe is in the drain reporter Michael Protzman called his followers back to dallas in october 2022, a year after the first gathering at the grassy knoll. Some of his followers again believed the kennedys were coming back. Michael protzman didnt answer our questions when we reached out to him, but we did catch up with him at the Hyatt Regency hotel, his socalled ark. Rolling . Rolling, yeah. Reporter michael, how are you . My name is Donie Osullivan. How are you . Well, im beyond excellent but ive got to go. Reporter where are you going . Where i need to go. Reporter are you going trying to find kennedy . Youll find out. Reporter when will i find out . When the time is right. Timing is everything. Reporter you got a big following here. Yeah. Reporter yeah. What is it that you do . Why do you think people like you so much . First of all, if you understood that a is 1 and z is 26. Reporter gematria. Abc, its easy as 123 trump ran on law and order, 115. The anointed 115. World war ii had a thing called the purple code. Purple code 115. Trump jfk 115. Reporter so what does this all mean . His book Art Of The Deal 115. Reporter right. The Resolute Desk johnjohn hid under. The same desk trump used because hes telling you hes hiding johnjohn. Reporter who is johnjohn . Jfk jr. Reporter jfk jr. Died in a plane crash. Youll find out. Reporter are you saying he didnt die in a plane crash . Youll find out. Resolute 115. Reporter right. Like the Resolute Desk. The assassination date right over here. Go add it up. 11221963. 11 plus 22 plus 19 plus 63, 115. We are at war, 115. Reporter what is the significance of 115 . Youll find out 174. Reporter what is my number . Trust the plan 174. Reporter whats my number . My number . Reporter yeah. Is 174. But its also 218. But ive got to go. Reporter why is it that people like you so much . Are you a con man . No. Reporter are you taking these women for a ride literally . No, theyre taking me for a ride. Reporter you were bankrupt, right . I am not bankrupt and they know it. See you later. Reporter how are you making all i dont talk to presstitutes. Get out of my face. Shut the door. Reporter what did you make of that . Well, i saw a few things in there. One, was what i call thought terminating cliches. Abc he just kept saying youll find out. Youll find out. Youll find out. And thats the kind of thing that there is no real answer to. Theres no explanation needed. You can just repeat these things and there is no way to kind of prove or disprove youll find out. And so those are the kind of things that are really kind of a trademark of cults. Youre a fraud. Youre fake news. Watch out. Get that out of my face. And this type of deception, this type of controlling tactics. Reporter with your expertise in your estimation is Michael Protzman leading a cult . Yes. In a word, yes. Reporter but who really is Michael Protzman . Does your son run a cult . I dont know. I dont know. Reporter after months of trying to get answers, Michael Protzmans mother agreed to sit down and talk to us. But i know that thats not michael. Thats this person now that has drank the koolaid. Ode beat con. Lets be more than our allergies and for fast allergy relief with a powerful decongestant, try zyrtecd. That grimy film on your teeth . Dr. G . Its actually the buildup of Plaque Bacteria which can cause cavities. Most toothpastes quit working in minutes. But crest prohealths antibacterial fluoride protects all day. It stops cavities before they start. Crest. [its the final game, folks. This one wins the series. ] struck out with the cheap seats . Important things arent worth compromising. At farmers, we offer both Quality Insurance and great savings. crowd cheers here, take mine. 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He was just your average good kid. His friends would make fun of him because as he got older he was the one that didnt drink, didnt smoke, didnt do any of that stuff. He was just a good kid. Reporter she told us how michael was a loving dad, had two kids, and now has grandkids. He ran a Demolition Business and he was anything but a diehard republican. Voted for obama. Mmhmm. Reporter twice . Uhhuh. Reporter its hard to comprehend. Thats why im saying, is that he is not hes not Michael Protzman. N plus 4 plus 8 plus 7. Reporter michaels mom says around 2015 her son was stressed and was worried about his familys financial future. Reporter this kind of all started because he wanted to figure a way to invest for the future. And he started investigating buying silver. Going on the computer. Reporter the world of online silver and gold goes hand in hand with the world of Conspiracy Theories. The real economy is imploding. The banks are looting us. People need to get into silver and gold. That our money isnt going to be any good fairly soon. The world market is going to crash. Reporter eventually it became all michael could talk about. As time went on family and friends didnt want to hear that anymore, so i think he became more isolated. And the more isolated he became, the more he needed his family to agree with him, to believe everything that he believed. And we didnt. It had been evolved into alex jones and info wars and sandy hook and the conspiracy of 9 11. Reporter for a time michael was sleeping in his car. He had lost his family. He had lost his business. But then he found telegram. I remember him telling his friends, im on telegram and all of a sudden i have these followers. He had been trying to convince us that he was right for years, and these people said youre right. Happy birthday dear michael like they say, if your family isnt with you make your own family. John kennedy 174, i am jesus christ 174 reporter people are looking at him as this bad person, this possibly intentional cult leader. J, j, j. 10, 10, 10. Michael is just a lost person that felt like he lost everything. Reporter we listened to a recording of one of protzmans telegram streams where he outlined one of his theories. The family tree goes like this. Johnjohn and general flynn and trump are cousins. Reporter of course this is nonsense. And there is no evidence Michael Flynn or donald trump are attached to protzmans group or believe in its theories. And trumps uncle is jfk senior and joan kennedy who is also not dead. Reporter so when you hear that kind of thing i know, yeah. Reporter its not the michael you knew. Oh, god, no. I mean, yeah. Because its not logical. It doesnt make sense. My heart breaks for the people that have been with him. I want them to know that he is a victim just like they were. Because three years ago he didnt have a group. He didnt have a following. He didnt start out to have a cult. Hes complicit in now what is happening. Reporter what protzman and his followers believe is objectively wacky but its also dangerous. Is there a cabal . You can call them cabal, you can call them the mafia, you can call them whatever you want. There is a group of people that run us all. And they go back all the way to the very beginning of the bible. And they sacrificed children. Reporter when you say people run them all, are you talking about the jews . There is a difference. There are traditional jews and theres zionist jews. They work the kazerian mafia. Reporter what is being said about the Khazerian Mafia is not true. But its a hugely popular antisemitic theory that emerged after russia invaded ukraine. It is an example how americans who go Down The Rabbit Hole can become submerged in a world of hate and extremism. Qanon is rooted deeply in antisemitism which dates back centuries all the way to medieval blood libel, which was the false accusation that jewish people were gathering and kidnapping christian children and drinking their blood or using their blood to make matzo for passover. If you talk about jew urz an antisemite. But you slow me who i cant talk about and ill show you who my enemy is. They didnt kill 6 million. They werent gassing them. There was no chimney at auschwitz when it started. This was when i went to meet jason and i wanted to meet all of his friends. Reporter in an attempt to get her brother to come Home Erica Vygrass went to a trump rally with protzman and other followers. When he introduced me he said to everybody this little girl is the reason im going home in june. I thought that he was coming back. And he didnt. Im sorry. Reporter Michael Protzmans mom wanted her son home, too. Maybe he thinks he doesnt have anything to come back to. Which is wrong. Reporter michael has a family to come home to. Definitely. Always has. Always will. Reporter but a few months after we spoke to protzmans mom 911. There has been a guy who has been out for three or four minutes. Hes breathing but struggling. Hes out cold. Reporter tragedy. I want you all to know this is real. Michael is in the hospital in an icu. He has been critically injured. Keeping kids together, here, at places like the lunch table. Where they can share who they truly are. [boy] Chicken Nugget man. Because when kids are together, they thrive. Lysol. Here for healthy schools. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Because only the sleep number climate360 smart bed lets you each sleep up to 13 degrees cooler or warmer on either side, while you both sleep at your ideal level of firmness comfort and support. Your sleep number setting. And now, our new next gen smart beds have temperature benefits, so you sleep better night after night. Save 400 on the new sleep number c4 smart bed. 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There are no Term Contracts or line activation fees. And you can bring your own device. Oh, and all on the most reliable 5g Mobile Network nationwide. Wireless that works for you. Its not just possible. Its happening. You know what happened . No, i didnt see it. But hes out. On friday, june 20, 2023, Michael Protzman was in a serious accident at this Motocross Track in minnesota. Michael has been in an accident. Its serious. He has an injury, potential brain injury, is what were looking at right now. He was rushed to a hospital, never regained consciousness, and a week later, he was dead. From what we know, he was in some kind of i think a motocross accident. So they say. Theres no proof of that. Even before it was made public michael had died, there were Conspiracy Theories about his accident. Some believe he was murdered. Some suggested he might have faked his death, like they believe jfk jr. Did. Some even believe Michael Protzman was jfk jr. And he had gone back into hiding. You dont believe it was an accident . Im questioning it actually. Right. Shelly mullinax is a longtime negativity 48 follower. We spoke to her at a trump rally in South Carolina a few days after the accident. You believe jfk jr. Didnt die . Yes. And that he presents himself as different people . Hes an actor. Actors play different parts, like madea. Right. You do think its possible that michael is jfk jr. . I know that, yes. Its been about a month since Michael Protzman died. Its been about five months since we were last in seattle, when we spoke to michaels mom. Back then, she didnt want to show her face on screen, not because she was embarrassed or ashamed, but she thought it might upset mike. And she still really wanted her son to come home. Now things are very different. Im calling michaels mom. He really, truly got to the point where he believed he was doing something that was going save people somehow. I mean, he truly believed it. Her message to the people who dont believe michael is dead. Well, his kids got to take his ashes home. Im sorry that they feel you know, that they might want to believe that. But i feel that thats those are the people that want to keep stirring things up. They should stop . They should really stop, yeah. Its very harmful. And i our family just hopes and prays that some of these people that have, you know, followed michael, that theyll think twice and hopefully their families can have them back. Michael protzman may be gone, but his followers are sticking together, still traveling to trump rallies, still blinded by Conspiracy Theories. You know, maybe qanon gives them a sense of purpose. They can go from being a nobody to a digital soldier engaged in this battle to Save Humanity from all these forces of evil. Maybe they are looking for a sense of community. All of this isnt just affecting families. Its affecting our society, our democracy. The january 6th attack on the u. S. Capitol was inspired by Conspiracy Theories about the election, theories promoted from the very top levels of government. I think were at a real crisis situation. I think that we could lose democracy. Whats your advice to somebody who has someone in their life whos coming to the Kitchen Table every Night Talking qanon . Take it seriously. Know that its far more insidious than it might seem in a conversation. Its happening at the dinner table. Its happening at the dinner table. Its happening over the phone with your grandmother. Its this damage that happens slowly and quietly where people get sucked deeper and deeper and deeper into these alternate realities. You have to get empathy before you can be helpful to them. You want to help them be able to walk away from this with their dignity. And the further you argue with them and tell them theyre stupid for believing this, the more their dignity is at stake. Theyre thinking, i have to stay with this and prove that its right because they dont see a way out. Some of Michael Protzmans followers have accepted that he is gone, but some still cling to the belief that he isnt really dead. And many of them continue to believe the Conspiracy TheoriesMichael Proksman preached. And thats probably one of the reasons im willing to do this. If they think that i will come on here and tell them that my son is dead and its a lie, then really theres no hope for them. But for those she can convince her son is dead maybe they can put this behind them, you know, and realize that whatever they were following or looking for, at least this part is is done. In the months since michaels fatal motorcycle accident, his followers have attended some trump rallies but seem to be spending much of their time at their own homes. It remains to be seen if they will once again gather in dallas on the anniversary of the assassination waiting for jfk. Thanks for watching. Ill see you next sunday