Transcripts For CSPAN NATO 20240704

We are funded by these Television Companies and more including buckeye broadband. Buckeye broadband supports cspan as a publ service along with these other Television Providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. Coming up, nato secretarygeneral yen sultan berg talked about Ukraine Security and the death of alexei navalny. Hes joined by the Prime Minister of estonia and republican senator pete ricketts. This is about half an hour. Can i get you to comment on the death of navalny and what signal russia is sending the world. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the family and it reemphasizes Vladimir Putin is a dictator, dictators do not know any rules and thats why its important that we remember nato is here to protect our collective security against dictators like Vladimir Putin. Before i go to the Prime Minister doesnt sharpen your intend to do more to support ukraine as president zelenskyy says. Navalny one day and the rest of ukraine next. Ukraine demonstrated what his intentions are. I dont know if this changes our perception of putin. This enforces what we already knew. Prime minister, you are literally on the front lines, very strong and needing to maintain the deterrence. What was your reaction and what might it mean in a bigger way . It shows putins playbook has not changed. So we should be aware of this. Like president zelenskyy said, lets not discuss to do something. We have to do everything to stop them. We have seen this already. The same thing. American isolationism, not stopping the aggressor with stopping them. And then see a spread all over the world. Lets learn something from the history. Naito has said in key defense ministers from the frontline countries have said that your concern for the first time that within three to five years even putin could test the resolve of the nato countries. We can never take peace for granted. Serving against any nato ally. The world has become more dangerous but naito has become stronger and the purpose of nato is to prevent war. As they are sure there is no room in moscow for any miscalculation to protect all allies. Will trigger a response. And as long as we convey that message, no ally will be impacted. Therefore we dont see this mitigated. Our focus should not move from helping ukraine militarily. We dont have to talk about any nato country if we stop putin in ukraine. Thats why we should concentrate our efforts. What will it take . You heard president zelenskyy layout, we will get back to the naito track. Antiair defenses, longrange, all the stuff they need. Controlling the skies or to stop the bombers from russia, this is now depending on the United States. When everyone said we are not going to pass this bill, europe stepped up. When is the United States going to do with the United States pledged to do. Defend democracy andy tate and dictatorship. Europe still needs to do more. As of last summer only 11 of the nato allies, that still needs to be done and applaud what germany is doing to get there hopefully this year. There are so many european allies. With regards to the United States, we are democracies. It takes time to get there. So for example the europeans havent gotten to 2 yet. It takes time to bring democracies along. We will get there with regards to making adjustments. There may be different paths to get there. Im reminded of Winston Churchills quote americans will do the right thing after exhausting all other possibilities. I do think we will get there, its just democracies take time to process. Is there enough time for the democratic process. Hearing about the two europeans here. What senator angus king told me that the United States is 15th in terms of defense spending. And other European Countries are spending more frankly. Giving all to the 2 . Thats something you should all take into consideration. And wondered whether the United States, do you have an answer to the consequence of russia winning, of putin winning. I absolutely believe is the Prime Minister was saying that if putin wins in ukraine he wont stop there. He is a dictator. Dictators behave the same way which is they tell you what they are going to do and he talked about greater russia, moving outside of russia. Theres no doubt the Baltic States will be at risk if we dont stop them in ukraine. What i think we should remember is the geography is not going to change. When he loses in ukraine he will still be a threat and a danger and we will have to continue to bolster our eastern flank. So i think its part of what we have to do to make sure we stopping here in ukraine. And also what we need to do in the United States but all of our countries is make sure we are reminding our publics because weve seen increasing support in the United States for ukraine, reminding them how important it is we stop putin here and really get that message out, build the support to get the weapons that ukraine will need to continue to fight. Picking up on the progress that nato nations are making and what you are demanding for defense spending. In 2014 naito made the decision triggered by the legal annexation of crimea, reducing defense spending we increased defense spending. I remember i was there and i thought this was just another place for the international meeting, a lot has happened. All nato allies have increased defense spending, of this year we expect 18 allies to meet the 3 on defense. Thats up from three and 2014. Thats a significant increase. European allies at 600 billion and also at 2 how does have plans in place soon. There is an enormous difference because they realize they invest in readiness over forces and naito is implemented reinforcements are collected. In the eastern borderlands with higher business and now told him defense spend. Europeans have to do even more but they have to demonstrate a commitment to stand together. Prime minister, you say america will eventually do the right thing in this case. The cia director has set for the United States to walk away from the conflict in ukraine at this crucial moment and cut off support would be an own goal of historic proportions. Do you feel as the atmosphere around the beginning of this conference that there is a worry about america continuing to lead the alliance, wanting to be the leader particularly if the administration changes. Is that a real anxiety or not . I want to correct one thing that i hear everywhere which is mentioning separately poland. 80s like we are secondclass nato members. There all equal naito members prayed when russia tax naito it will attack all of us. Not poland, not the baltics. Lets not make that distinction. [applause] second, i think of course we are all democracies and democracies we dont get to choose the leaders for our allies and we have to work with all the allies. What we have to understand is to learn from the mistakes from the history and one thing for europe , i was just in one of the central European Countries and they had the attitude that the war is far from them and i took the distances, you are much closer to the war than we are. We should all be worried and so it is true that we have to ramp up our defense spending and do it not only in real life so in estonia we have invested or are investing over 3 of our gdp to defense and we encourage everyone to do so. Theres also one thing ive thought about and this is when i came up with the proposal of the one round one million rounds artillery initiative for ukraine it turned out our Defense Industry is not capable and we dont have enough. But we have in estonia for example a very vibrant tech sector so why dont we put those tech sector and Defense Industries together to make this a really big progress not producing what was there for the 20th century but what should be in the 21st century so that we can make advantage by this technological part also in the next in the Defense Industry. I think there is so much we can do altogether and together with the big allies, as long as we bring everything to the table thats what the alliance is all about. Prime minister tell us talked about this one billion ammunition round. One million ammunition round. At the moment u. S. Intelligence says well you can deliver even one million, north korea is busy delivering maybe half a billion to russia right now. Is that right . Hes getting what he needs. Can you today be certain that naito can defeat russia if it comes to that . What we are hearing is youre not ramped up enough, you dont have enough to do what you need to do in ukraine, much less if you were to confront russia and it was said if they step on your territory any single every single inch will be defended. Naito is the Strongest Military power in the world today. We have some 60 for military might. We are stronger than russia. But at the same time i think is the war in ukraine has demonstrated there are some serious gaps. For instance when it comes to sustainment having the advanced weapon systems but they need maintenance and ammunition. In the war in ukraine now they are running quite low. So now we are focusing on how to ramp up production. Manufacturing is been set up, but there is an urgent need to do more. So i think we all have learned about the warfare but also for naito and from the war in ukraine. Then of course european allies have more to do when it comes to spending but when you look at the support for ukraine european allies and canada have brought in more support for ukraine than the United States. The United States has done a lot but in particular when it comes to military support. In ukraine its the lack of decision the u. S. Congress from the u. S. Has come down and that has an impact in ukraine. So of course this is not only about making the right decision but about making the right decision early as quickly as possible because it urgent every week we wait there will be more People Killed on the front lines in ukraine. So its not for me to give advice through the u. S. Congress but what i can say is its a vital and urgent need for them to decide on a package for ukraine because we need that support and we have this so its now for them to deliver what they have promised. And you took that message to washington last week, chancellor schulz went. So let me turn to you again senator, you voted against the senate plan. I wonder was there anything you heard today may be puts your resolve to convince the colleagues not just in the senate but in the house particularly what president zelenskyy said that he would really request all of these weapons these to be directly addressed. You heard an answer to a question he would even invite former President Trump to the front lines so he could see the danger and whats going on. Does anything you here today stiffen your resolve, change your mind . It goes back to democracies, everyone every country has its priorities. We have a pressing National Security issue at our southern border. Over the course of the last three years,. 5 Million People of entered our country illegally or attempted to. Put in that perspective is more than four times the population of my state. Thats the number one consideration for people in my state and across the United States is whats going on in our southern border. So thats what my colleagues and i were attempting to do when were trying to pass this bill is to get a package that would secure the border and fourth president by new changes policies prayed ultimately were not successful. Again it gets back to every country has its own policy and priorities getting back to why since 2014 it was a 2 and here we are in 2023 almost 10 years later we will have either 11 last year or maybe 18 this year. Countries have their priorities to get there. Do you accept that actually the administration came to a very conservative and strict immigration proposal based on what the congress wanted and its congress who torpedoed it. They had talked to alondra mayorkas who said hed never seen anything from the democrats so strong. My question to you we know the American People considerable margin support naito. The polish Prime Minister tweeted dear publican senators of america, Ronald Reagan who helped millions of us win back her freedom and independence must be turning in his grave today. He says shame on you. I wondered what you think about that and whether you are prepared to see a world in which america does not lead any more or in which russia wins. With the administration came forward on the border was not adequate. They set the emergency level of 5000 people entering a day. In the past it was 1000. The president of the Border Patrol council said 1000 is an emergency. 5000 is a catastrophe. Thats why the bill didnt go anywhere is because with the president was willing to do was not adequate. With regards to i understand people are anxious to get this done, it is a democracy, it takes time and we have other issues we have to deal with as well. As i mentioned we will get there, it is going to take time. Democracy is a process and we have to work to get the answer for how we will invest in our Defense Industrial base and how we will supply ukraine with weapons they need. Im confident the United States will get there. It is that time is working in favor of food and of course so against the rulesbased order so of course everyone is looking at the United States to speed up the process. I understand democracy takes time, you have debates but at the same time there is a lot at stake. I think in the world, again i turn back to history and i think three things we learned from the 1930s and the Second World War was first everything spreads very fast. In europe, the second is if america isolates itself, it eventually is going to cost you more and the third is this aggression pays off somewhere it serves as an imitation to do it elsewhere which is a threat to the global security. [applause] senator ricketts, primary Prime Minister, thank you very much. I understand china and many other issues are on your agenda this week. The questions, not speeches. Dear senator you said democracy takes time, the problem is ukraine does not have time. We are dying every day and that is so important so please consider it. One more message, you asked for president zelenskyy to send republicans, my messages easy. The first messages do you really want to have afghanistan once more. That will be a consequence. Second if it will be needed who will be with in americans and trenches in tehran. As a private we are ready to help you with the border, we are ready to help you. But do you really think that if ukraine would fail that will help american borders . Thank you. [applause] was there a rule against speeches versus questions . I understand your frustration coming from ukraine absolutely. Your country is being invaded. You have 300,000 russian soldiers on your territory. For the perspective of the millions of people trying to come into the United States illegally not quite the same thing but its a pressing issue for our country. Its a pressing issue for the United States. So again when youre talking about dealing with multiple issues you have to be able to manage it all, ukraine has its own political issues, you looking at your conscription, i understand its a difficult political issue in ukraine right now as well so i think again we all have to have a little break, we are all democracies. To understand getting our population to where we need to be is a matter of time and process matters. So it is what sets apart from the bad guys like putin that we just cant order people to do stuff. So certainly understand ukrainian saying we need this now, i get it. It takes time to work its way through a democracy and thats what we will do. We will get there. Its just cannot take time. Its just going to take time. Former minister, its clear europe is just needs a credible and strong deterrence looking ukraine and beyond. Do you think we can achieve that by conventional means only . Or is it time to discuss European Nuclear missiles, what are the expectations across the atlantic . Naito has a wellestablished Nuclear Deterrence which is worked for decades. Its something the United States does together with european allies. We have agreed commandandcontrol, we have doctrines and actions we do together as naito. I think any questioning of that deterrence will undermine naito. Of course we have the United States, france and the u. K. , but developing some parallel joint Nuclear Deterrence amongst home nato allies, presumably in the u. K. Either, that is not helpful and will only undermine what has worked well for many years. Thank you very much. United Kingdom Parliament former foreigner foreign minister. Senator i understand this is the biggest delegation to the United States for generations to come to munich and thats really good to see. I hope the message goes back but part of europe is on fire. The lines of the map are being redrawn to how this is being tied in with whats going on at the mexican border. My question is, if you take a howitzer from the United States and put it with munitions from estonia as ukraine found it wont work. We need to be building more artillery pieces and shells as well. Until we standardize this equipment, it simply wont happen. Surely that must be a priority for naito. Absolutely. We have some serious lessons we learn from the war in ukraine. Its not only howitzers and munitions, we also have a joint german brigade. We have two examples where allies have made some small changes, partly to protect their own industry. It just doesnt work so we have done a lot to actually reinforce and implement the balance of costs and it will ensure weapons and ammunitions are exchangeable. This lady here. Thank you very much. Im transitioning to a think tank in washington dc. Senator, the former trumpet administration and current biden administration, being ident but is a priority area for the United States and china the main challenge. How do you take a sluggish approach how do you think this sluggish approach might impact these Foreign Policy priorities and challenges . Absolutely. Theres no doubt xi is also a dictator and has his own territorial ambitions in taiwan. So we know xi is watching closely in ukraine is one of the reasons its important we support ukraine and also work with taiwan to make sure theyve got the weapons they need to be able to avert him from taking taiwan by force. This is all interrelated which is one of the reasons its important naito established some of the relationships we had with regards to our indo Pacific Partners like korea and japan. Im supportive of trying to set up a naito office in tokyo so we can open up those lines of communications to keep it coordinated. I believe what happens in naito specific impact europe and thats why think we need to be thinking naito has its mission but extending those communication and cooperation is important to be able to deter xi jinping from taking taiwan in the future. A question to both of you. You been using china more in your argument to lawmakers and others have told us they are watching, iran is watching, china is watching. Everyone is watching what happens in ukraine and others have suggested there is a new access of antiamerican nations, iran, north korea, russia joining to challenge the United States. I would like to hear your view on that and your answer on that. I think just a few days before the russian fullscale invasion of ukraine in 2022, president putin went to beijing and signed an agreement with president xi jinping where they would promise each other a partnership and what we see is its coming closer. So of course if president putin wins its not only a challenge for ukrainians but it sends the message to pruden and to xi jinping that they can use force to get what they want. It can happen taiwan tomorrow. Saying its a good deal for the United States to support ukraine , its not charity, its investment in their own security. Because it makes it less likely that xi jinping uses forces when it comes to taiwan but also spending a fraction of the budget together with european allies we have enabled ukraine to destroy substantial parts of russian fighting power. It is in our interest to ensure putin does not win and what china may learn if he wins in ukraine. Its important the u. S. Take a position on supporting ukraine. [applause] do you want to elaborate . I would agree with the secretarygeneral. I think the world is polarizing between these authority and dictators authoritative in dictators, they are the ones trying to up and the system we created since world war ii which led to this piece and prosperity. They are trying to change that and thats where its up to us in the world that we see these values that are so important we have these democracies that allow people to get that peace and prosperity to Work Together to oppose that. The rule the world has changed. The piece weve had since the soviet union collapsed in the 1990s, thats gone. Its good to be a very dangerous world for the next few years. During the cold war, europe spent 30 of gdp, we have to look at the same thing, looking to fall below 3 getting that back up. We also can get back to we need to talk about whats happening and why its so important because they havent lived in a world where weve had a situation like this since 1990. I was talking to a mother at my state fair and she said senator i dont want my 18yearold fighting in europe. I said thats why we are giving ukraine weapons. So that that does not happen because if ukraine loses and pruden invades one of our nato allies then your 18yearold will be fighting. That hasnt been out there in a long time. We have to get our peoples across these nations to understand the world has changed and we will have to step up to fight these dictators. [applause] the last word to you. Just thoughts about your migration worry, in comparison we have had 6 of our population now Ukraine Ukrainian refugees. That would be calculating into america, 20 Million People. We survived, you will i guess survive as well. [applause] what i wanted to say about europe and america, i think it is important to understand that a majority of the investments that come to america are from europe. 45 states out of 50 are dependent on european job creation or the export import relations, trade relations. It is more. 2. 7 times the american companys profits from europe more than they do from asia all of asia. So if you think in this kind of what is in it for us terms, then europe is definitely profitable and thats why the u. S. Has to see how this is affecting you as well when there is a war in europe. [applause] im being told it is the end of the session, thank you very much. Secretarygeneral, thank you very much. Ohio republican senator j. D. Vance joint a discussion on relations with the european union. Senator vance said the United States should focus its Foreign Policy on east asia instead and added European Countries need to better provide for their own security. From the Munich Security Conference in germany, this is 45 minutes. So, welcome everyone to this final day of the Munich Security Conference. I wath