Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Murdochs World 20140111

Of opinion with how this war began . And a great observation that history county archives, and can you actually determine what the facts are based on available information or shall we always be disputing these issues . Theres not much to be discovered in the archives. A lot of german high command archives in the Second World War, the russians took some back to moscow, and have not been thoroughly explored yet. And elements within the soviet government knew what was going on and great and discovered caches of documents but i dont think we will come to an agreement, viewpoints keep changing but it is such a complex event. The Second World War is so much clearer. They wanted or prepared to risk war. And first of all, it is such a complex correction of events, and what they will keep on doing is deepening the context so so we know much more about European Society at the time and very interesting studies done, education. What were people learning in their schools and it is something about what they think about themselves and their place in the world we know more now about what men per since, lot of interesting work on notions of honor and masculinity and dealing so i think we will keep one perhaps shifting and gathering more information but i suspect our descendants will be sitting here a hundred years from now looking at the we will be as far from agreement as ever. I cant think of a better way to end this. I want to thank you again. The piece available for purchase outside. Robert massie and his latest work catherine the great. I am david andelman. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] we would like to hear from you. Tweet as your feedback, twitter it. Com booktv. Now on booktv npr media correspondent David Folkenfilk talks about the rise and near fall of Rupert Murdochs news corp. And how mr. Murdoch was able to survive the recent bribery and phone hacking scandal in england. Have to make noise so we know you are there because right now we cant tell. I get to introduce davids the bear with me while i read what they wrote for me. Or did you write it for me . And 11 has been media correspondent since 2004. Comedienne andhe has been a frequent commentator on the packing scandal in the u. S. And u. K. His new book is murdochs world, the last of the old media empires. Good to have you. Thanks for having me here. Back in southern california. Before we try to answer the question did Rupert Murdoch save journalism, you try to answer the question. That is why you are here. Journal is mashed egg. Host lets set the stage a little bit. You covered the media for ten plus years before npr and the Baltimore Sun and it means covering Rupert Murdoch, covering u. S. Media. Rupert murdoch and company did not cooperate in this book project. How far did they go to stop you if at all . Guest nothing reprehensible. They decided after taking months to think about my inquiries and requests, almost a year ago now decided not to participate, and they said no thanks, they cited a number of reasons, criminal proceedings in london that are pretty will, and top former lieutenants, which we can get into and they offer great access, lively magazine writer Michael Wolff with usa today and the guardian, and concerned about the wake of the hacking scandal, in terms of there were a number of executives of various arms and outlets in the larger murdoch realm. We did like to talk to you and word comes from the big dogs and set up a talk with one of the most Senior Executives in the corporation and within 24 hours of our long planned interview with got a call, you cannot do this. And having done a lot of stories, a reservoir of knowledge of interviews, and people at the reporter level to the Top Executive ranks, able to talk to me but rather patiently walk through a lot of key moments in the story i tell in the book. For the most part your pets are still alive so that is a good sign. You make the case that Rupert Murdochs impact on media cant be overstated. Most people are familiar with it but what is the short region. Why should we care about Rupert Murdoch . Pretty unquestionably at the moment, last several decades been the most influential and Important Media figure in the englishspeaking world. You have a guy it is split in two but it is a publicly traded company has run but he runs it like a family concern with a reason. Restructured in such a way that his children essentially control almost a pure majority of votes in such a way it is impossible to hold them in check but they have holdings the stand six continents, the Company Controls 65 to 70 of major newspaper circulation in australia until the control of 40 of National Newspaper circulation in the u. K. Which is a National Newspaper market that is down to 38 but that is in american minds quite astonishing. The most powerful private broadcaster in the u. K. Fox news here, that acts, the simpsons, the list goes on, wall street journal, the New York Post, he shakes politics and Public Perception particularly through his newspapers and fox news at high and low level, massmarket tabloid weaken talk more about that reflect his populist centerright reagan democrat sensibility and the way in which he reachedes Decision Makers and influence through papers like the wall street journal and the times of london and australia so he is playing a sophisticated game to influence public policy, to show the connection that he has to make money and also keep making money by influencing people in powerful positions to help them on his more lucrative side, the foxes of the world. You had some colorful characters to work with, none more colorful than rupert himself. He is bigger than any one country, he has citizenship here so that he could get involved in television here, and he is a man of the world but still motivated but seems like he is motivated a lot by past and present allegiances to family. Is yet daddys bullet or mommys boy . He is his own man. Family is important. Families hugely important to him. In some ways beyond borders. He is the creator. He saw opportunities and cookies weaker television stations and these markets and strong them together at a time when people thought they werent valuable, into a network that became the most popular in the country for many years. He did a similar thing in britain where he was awarded one of the early first Satellite Television channels for britains so he beamed up the satellite from studios in looks and borg and beamed it down from a different set alight in the sky getting people relatively inexpensive satellite dishes they could put in their homes and the brits blue their mind. We didnt say you could do that, i dont care. That is one of his hallmarks, he creates, innovate through circumvention and it is admirable. Offering much better in both countries as a result but the fine observance in regulation is not his finances, strong suit. He likes to tweak authority. That got it exactly right. Very respected political journalist in australia, he was the guy who revealed if you recall the movie in the days when we were allowed to like mel gibson movies it was about this terrible illfated campaign in world war i where british commanders sent new zealand troops to the slaughter and his father wrote a missive to the leading australian political figures say when it happened the australians have been betrayed by their colonial overlords in doing this and this helped forge a sense of identity as australia worked its way to independence and nationhood. He got some of the details wrong but it propelled keith murdoch, his father, to fame and murdoch many years later formed a Production Company to make sure the movie got made in ways to cement his fathers reputation with the young regeneration but he always had the sense his father would never give a the credit he was due and he called his father had been essentially screwed out of his holdings before his fathers death in the 50s and murdoch made his way, you might think he was a wealthy young man, his father was a knight and his mother lived in a huge estate just outside mel bourne. Team made its way by being given only a daily paper, is essentially forgotten city on the Southern Coast of australia. He nurtured this sense that the elites, the powers to be behind closed doors were screwing him and his family over and this drove him, propelled him to show he understood newspapers better, understood, and australian better, connected with them. He wasnt going to be elitist about what they should be reading. As long as they wanted to read something in the newspaper was a Public Service to provide it. Used that sense of grievance and connection, what he felt was the common man at simples, his own gut instinct. Host the sense of being motivated by the feeling of being disrupted throughout the book, you say murdoch and executive in his company define themselves by who they think their enemies are what did they really are their enemies, the bbc or unions or whoever. Very distinctive culture with his company. It comes from him. A strong sense of australians first, australians throughout top positions. Built on things like experiences during world war ii and prison camps basically where the australian guys often risk their own lives to save one another. And they also defined on who is inside the circle and who is outside the circle. You can see that, in britain he went and turned failing newspapers, the news of the world and the sun in to very successful brawling, combative, center right publications. And they called him the dirty digger. It was way of diminishing him as an australian. It has a scandal monger. There are other tabloids there as well. He thought, oh, these are locking me out. Again, hes a guy that went to oxford. His father it was a night. Hes a pneumonia proprivater. He forces his way to the top ranks by buying the time of london which has never made him a cent. Even though Prime Ministers are coming to meet him half way across the world. He dines with World Leaders all the time. He thinks the elite are against him. Its a crucial thing. Its not exact lay rose bud moment. Its a crucial them from early whereon he feels that he and his fellow australians basically are never going to get the time of day. Were they right about that . Indont think thats correct at all. I think if you look at the way in which power has been to him. He seized that the establishment is against him. He created his own. He has the former head of spain on his corporate board. The former substantiate attorney general to bush on his panel. Meets with michael bloomberg. A centrist. Another billionaire to talk about Immigration Reform and Charter School reform. This is not a guy shut out of things. Its nas nateing to watch. Human gestures means so much. 1995 tony blair, flies to a small island off the coast of australia. Caymans island and theres a retreat for news corp. He flies there. The opposition leader. Wants to throw out the conservatives and the elections that are going happen two years later. He flies there and makes no promises. Instead of making murdoch at one of his properties had e flies 10,000 miles to say, sir, im going to be able to do business with you pen and hes gene yous with the paper. Unlike the telegraph or the new york times. You dont always know where theyre going end up. They toggle between center left poem tickses, centrist, not pure liberal but centrist figure at left with conservative figures on the right. With toggling back and fort. They have hope they might get the support. And he supported Hillary Clinton when he ran for senate 2000. A centrist grand of democrat he felt he could do business with. You have written about theres five myths we have about murdoch. One of them is that. Hes really not a per son age of the far right. Hes much less conservative than the most striding voice on fox news. Hes more conservative than roger. And more conservative than the the wall street journal editorial page prior to his acquiring the the wall street journal. I talked to reporters and say we kind of got a break on the main streament media leftwing because the editorial page is so conservative it gives us cover. But he, you know, he, for example, in 2007 announced he would make news corp. Carbon neutral. And he would have the fiveyear deadline do that. They beat the deadline. On the other hand, on twitter he makes clear he has no patience for Government Intervention to force certain kind of taxation or other policies that mandate reduction. He believes in it. Said theres been violent swings in the climate in australia thaw you cant simply ascribe to chance. And yet his news organization, if you read his australian papers. They absolutely blood sugarrened the centrist left of center labor government for taking some steps to do more than just sort of embrace corporate voluntary action. You know, there were some Carbon Emissions policy seen as relatively some taxation and consumption issues. Similar to how we dealt with it two decade ago. But they pillar i ared him. Similarly on fox news you can see a rough equivalence of people that talk about Climate Change existing or casting significant doubt on the existence. And the scientific community, as most people know by now. But that knowledge is shaped very much by what we see in the main stream press. You know, there is fundamental agreement that it is occurring. Theres disagreement about how its going play out and what it means. T not the debate as it is played out in the murdoch press. His evolution is interesting. Inhope well come back. I want to ask about the other myth before we lose the idea. One of them was that he only cares about profits. And really you say thats not the case. Well, he doesnt only care about profits. The new york excuse me the times of london has never made him a cent. The New York Post which hes own since 1977 never made him a cent. He created its like a little bit of myth. He created the day liberalized. Which is a tabletonly experiment. At lough people who really understand Digital Media and how people consume media and social media thought it was misgot from the start. I thought there was some real mistakes. Statement i thought its like bell lab. Hes trying something. That was something he lost many tens of millions of dollars on and shut it down as a geeze chiewr to shareholders he understood that he couldnt just do erg he wanted. He had to figure out how to do things. They ultimately werent able to figure out whether they wanted it a Walled Garden that would be like a magazine that you couldnt do more than physically hand to somebody else. Or whether would be a way to share it online to try to dpraw people in. If you need to charge somebody, you need to charge them for it. A confused presence to me. I didnt know whether i read or not. People inside were desperate to create a way you could share on twitter and do others. Literal tweets theres cool thing my boyfriend wrote on the daily. Sorry, you cant tread here. T to the actually a great advertising pitch. [laughter] so one of the other myths. People tag him with the idea hes been bad for journalism. And you say that, you know, he doesnt destroy Good Journalism or hasnt. And, you know, these were myths. He had to construct them in a way as it seemed you were destroying them entirely. I wouldnt say he uniformly destroys good journalist. Actually, if you look at the the wall street journal, its not clear to me. I think something in the order of 7 to 800 journalists on the editorial side. And i continue think that it has a ban kroft continue to control dow jones publicly traded company you can have that many journalists there. I think it has sophisticated report that is more ambitious than what proceeded his proprietorship there. I think hes more interested in politics. The headlines headlines are paunchier. The graphics are more engaging and the journalist, really, i think charming but something as a holdout in archaic look. That said, even at the journal, you know, i found several dozen instances where the two top editors. Several dozen . E. These were offered as sort of representative samples rather than the full cat log of the best hits. But, you know, there are inassistances in which they said gosh hes pulling us to the top editors one in australia and other the editor in chief formerrer times of london columnist and editor are pulling touts right each time on the stories by raising questions. Some of the questions are smart ones, but theyre never doing it ever pulling it to the left. Theyre never pulling the democrat higher in the story. Theyre never asking the question about whether are ties with the republican to sphri. Its one direction always. At certain point it felt to a large number the reporters and editors, many of whom their report was being pulled toment right. Whether they meant they were in the center or being on the right is a matter of despite between dispute between the editors and the reporting staff. Let chift shift over across the pond. The opening scene you have mor doj dock in the Luxury Hotel Room apologizing and claim this is, you know, hes humbly apologizing to the parents of milly. This is murder victim in england. 13yearold. Apologizing really for his journalist having hacked to her phone message and erases some of the messages before some of the police could see them. Why was the scene key to you . How you start the book. I thought it was a Pivotal Moment for a variety of reasons. Gets the family. It gets the question of, you know, this was the thing that he testified. It was made him the most the most humble day of my life and, you know, he was essentially apologize together nation and to the parliament during the testimony. In this private moment, people in the room involved himself and adviser will lewis used to be editor of the telegraph, mark lewis, no relation, the lawyer for the family of this murdered girl. And the sister and the parents of the murder 13yearold. In 2002 it was a national story. You think of how Casey Anthony and Casey Anthony was chewed up much of cable news. Similarly the tabloids thought about this young disdisappeared 13yearold who had vanished after school and, you know, it was set off an intense scramble for coverage in the competitive market. The thing that amazed me about it in some ways murdoch, for his connection with the common man never meets with them. Has no sense of the daytoday life. He doesnt go to the pub vane a pint. Not the way it works so much. Hes on the phone with hes on the phone with a tabloid editors see how what they are doing. It was a moment which he was seeing in person. People who do not deal with the press. Just everyday people. Hes having to confront the impact of the journalism at his prized possession. Andsome that i think, you know, the book argues, you know, is in many ways a consequence of the culture he created. Mark is the family for the says i know you know a lot about me. I know, a lot about you. If its an interesting introduction what is going to be a rebuke. He learned its not yet public that the news of the world had paid for private investigators to follow him. The lawyer. To see if they could find dirt on him to discredit him. They had been seeking to make the case and made the case in court that he has been an affair with another lawyer for another set of victims and should be disqferred. They were seeking to target him because the most effective unknown guy before the case. Most effective lawyer in england on the topic. Absolutely fearless. He knew as long as he didnt care what they published about anymore print he was invol herbal. The moment he started caring he would be visual. It turns out theres no proof they didnt the affair. It doesnt matter. They fry were trying to make it stick. He said i know you know about me. I know, about you too. And your mother would be ashaimented. His mother, by that point over 100 probably the most generated person in australia. She was a dame with the realm, i guess. She is considered probably the biggest benefactor off the murdoch millions in certainly the city of melbourne and possible lit country. When she died it was a state event for the state of victoria where melbourne is. And murdoch interestingly doesnt rise the bait. He said my father would be ashamed. Its clear this connection matters most. The respect of his father. The loving but older figure who died, you know, when he was a young man. For him this was all bound up in family. He is sitting across from the parents thinking about lots of their child, and for him it is a brief moment of connection with people who could not be more universes apart. You take us through in the book the difficulty that Rupert Murdoch felt in the dealing with this cascade of charges that kept coming out over what came to be called hacking. One of them was the closure of news of the world. Which was, you know, a newspaper that was fundamental to his operation in the u. K. And they had to shut it down. You write that for much of the scandal, the key thing his people were trying to do was protect a certain executive. Rebekah brookes. Yeah. And they did for awhile until even she became expendable. I take it youre following her trial . Its an amazing trial. Rebekah brookes was showed up in her early 20s at news of the world and worked her way up and deemed to be one of the youngest editor of tabloid of modern history. She was really good. She was merciless toward her staff. You hear stories from reporters who worked for one, you know, one of the stories they all put social ligate raid jars in to vans when they staked out out the girlfriend of some famous Soccer Player or, you know, cabinet member, politician. They were afraid if they went to take a leak at the pub down the block and missed the guy coming out of the apartment that, you know, they would be so berated they would probably lose their jobs. She ran with fear. It was a great tabloid editor approach. She was good at what she typical she was first news world and lead the sun tabloid as well. She went ton become ceo of murdochs newspaper empire in the u. K. , and, you know, she went to the pajama 40th Birthday Party for the wife of Prime Minister gordon brown. She wrote murdochs teach to his own daughter Elizabeth Murdoch. And the Prime Minister attended her wedding . Prime minister cameron, i believe, attended her wedding. And Oxford College class mate of the Prime Minister Charlie Brooks is her current husband. Shes somebody who trafficked in power and influence and flattery for people who could do good thing for her and the murdoch realm. , you know, she was so integrated in the political aleet that disentangle and looking now its clear that the political aleet and news alet particularly the murdoch aleets essentially worked in each others selfinterest to great deal of the time. First forging an alliance with the labor folks and switching it to cameron. But besides the politician and the journalists seem to be lost. The notion of the connection with the public. And what service they were providing there. In 19789 he gave a talk at what is called the lecture in scotland every year. The biggest industry conference in the u. K. At one point his said his sense of Public Service was any service you provide that the pub slick willing to pay for within the law. And for theres a different concept than you hear from the guardian or the new york times. Even from the own times of london. Its different concept what journalist is about. And why many people do it. Many of the folks at the tabloids lost the phrase within the law. They just thought any service we can provide the public will pay for not punished for is a Public Service. Brookes is on trial for what the charges . On trial for conspiracy to commit hacking in the milly case. A part of that. Prosecutors in this week are presenting evidence that she was in constant minute by minute contact with the news desk. Shes like due by so i couldnt know anything about the hacking. It turns out her cell phone shows she was in pretty much Constant Contact with the top editors there according to the hacking. Shes on trial for corruption excuse me for conspiracy to commit corruption. Significant bribe on fairly regular basis. T a small minority of police but a large number of public official having done this. To get information that under law in britain is private. And people in other, you know, the Defense Ministry and other places are accused of having participated in that as well. Shes on trial for conspiracy to conceal evidence, basically. Tampering with evidence. In july of 2011 all of this was having out her assistant and the head of security for news international. Which was then the name for the british newspaper hauled out 11 carton of her document under somebody elses name and started destroying them and said we didnt realize you wanted that. And also, involved her her husband was involved in basically trying to toss a laptop to a dumpster and got in an argument whether or not he did it on purpose. And the police didnt take kindly to that. We should point out shes the not one. Right. She pleaded not guilty and its not proven. The second thing, theres an array of people on trial including andy coalson. Its an interesting embodiment. Not somebody as close will to murdoch. She was surrogate daughter. Hes on trial for hacking and corruption. But he was required to recenter line 2007 when two meant went to jail for hack together phone of the princes. Which was a first legal moment when there were consequences for this. They went to jail and said well cod rise this. He was editor of the news the world and i knew nothing. It happened on my watch i must resign. Cameron was celebrate to figure out a way with the rise to the head of the conservative party to win the murdoch newspaper all four back to the side of the ledger for upcoming election. He bringses in andrew. That mind understood the murdoch world and he was close with Rebecca Brooke and brought them on board and brought them on board to be the head of communications. So you think of jay carnie bakely being on trial for macking corruption and hacking. That might give you some sense how weird it is the british. It was also revealed in recent day in the l. A. Times or other places that Rebekah Brookes and andrew had a sixyear affair. So its not theres no evidence suggest that affair continued while he was in the top aid of the Prime Minister. If theres any indication not subtle, by the way, of the way in which the media and political elite were working hand and glove. The liaison would suggest it. [laughter] well, for us in the united, is it all just sport to observe it . Or does it matter, do you think in us assessing our media here . Michael wolf said that, you know, murdoch and wolf with a buy orographer he wrote a book that came out in late 2008 and 2009. He write farce number of magazines for usa today and others. Look, murdoch would say look, we took consequences. We killed news of the world. But they created the sun on sunday which replaced it. Instead of having 40 of newspapers circulation. They have maybe 37 to 38 in National Newspaper circulation. By the way, they registered the sun on sunday url in 72 hours of the break of the thing. They were ready for it. They thoughtlet do this and go. They kind of mitigated that. In some ways its business as usual. Well, its not business as usual. I saw a funny today on twitter there was an article in the guardian that i saw linked to. You go it and the editor of the sun tabloid explain its harder now. You have reporters that have gone back to knocking on doors to get stories now that we cant pay people and hack no voice mail. I thought these are extreme measures. Times are tougherrer all over. So, you know, its not business as usual. Poll tieses arent going to race to be seen in the public eye embracing murdoch. In cameron wins in 2010 a minority of vote but manages to get a coalition. Me becomes Prime Minister. The first private individual that is nonpublic official he greets is murdoch. He does ask him to enter and leave by the back door so photographers cant take that picture. He wants mor murdoch know hes thinking of you kind of thing. And youre not seeing that to same disagree. There is still this fratterrization. They are still invested in each others social lives its hard disintangible. But murdoch, this this country, hasnt had the same fallout. I think if there was a single whether by british or american reporters for his empire, that would have come down. But if you think about the run away success of fox. It is based on the idea that its providing stories that maybe the main stream mediaover looks. They are ignoring stories at the heart of the cub. Its based on argumentation. They dont have the same pressure to break tabloid stories day after day. Its built on a different model. Well, and fox news, i think, is the, you know, the murdoch product that we think of in the united states. You spend a lot of time in your book talking about the success of fox news on the business side and how it changed canal television, really. But you also describe an event where you were having a photograph taken with roger sure. After they surprisingly invited do you sit at their table at the white house response dinner. What happened . Well, so i had done a story about, i believe my friend chris i take back chris was with me. Forgive me. I did a story for the Baltimore Sun that embarrassed fox news because showed parade over a site that was 300 miles away from where he want represented himself as being. He said he was praying the dead body of American Service men. He happened to be, you know, many miles away from where it happened. It was mildly embarrassing. So fox news, you know, went after me and they went after me and put me an blacklist nobody inside the Empire Company could talk to me. They said you havent pulled your punches. Lets admire that. Let turn the page and move on. They invited me to the white house response dinner as the guest. The sun paid my bill. The equivalent of my tickets cost and drank and ate without guilt. It was an inside joke to other reporters and the very small number of people who pick up as sort of an edgy thing do. Some years later then they invite me to the launch party at the metropolitan new seem of art in new york for fox business network. This was the great need for ail. Of it a way in which murdoch saying im doubling down on you. Were going go after cnbc because cnbc while the guys in the tank for leftist, which i dont think is an accusation made often. They thought they were would bring a fox news to financial. They are brilliant at broadcasting. So i meet mr. From murdoch and try to convince him to come on and steve on morning edition. I dont think you would find me very interesting. I said i think you underestimate yourself. I saw roger and said congratulations. Its great night to see you. He said i know you. He said youre the guy who [ bleep ] ed us. I said. You cant say on npr. I can on cspan. Its cable. [laughter] so, you know, i said i dont look at it that way. He didnt have to explain what he was referring to. I reported the facts. He said people like you say thing like that. [laughter] i thought people like me . Im a reporter and, you know, i know fox has a different way of approaching thing. Dont you have reporters too . And very funny exchange and a photographer came up and broke the mood a little bit. It was funny. But he doesnt forget anything. Hes very combative. He thinks you not a story you harmed us. You tried to screw us. How to i sat out to do that. I didnt make him to do that. He presented me with the incredible gift. So length of time. You talk about the whole organization is intattive in your sense. Of it your revelation about the sock puppet on the web people from fox setting up ail yes, sirs so they can comment on stories about fox across the web. Theres a madness that took hold. I think there are two ways. You want to understand what murdoch thinks. You can read the New York Post and sun in london. Its a good reflects. I think. If you want to understand what roger is thinking. You can watch fox friends as happy talk as it is. They are going after his target. They are hitting the talking point and happy to do it. Its pretty pure. The pr department, unlike any shop i have dealt with. People spin, mislead you. Fox news is a different world. Divorced of the notion of the value that a Media Company has to embrace in order to be seen serving the public even as it make acetone of money. They got in to my mind as degree of frenzy for a number of years where the pr people not only had do all the thing everybody else did. Late at night they spend their time and often during the day on the blog rebutting every single blog posting that was negative about their shows, their take, their talent. Fine. They had to do that for the ones that were neutral. They were insufficiently brazen. Then they to go to the comment. It didnt matter how big or small the following. They had to go in the comment and did it under ail yes, sirs. One pr person told me she acquired 20 and another person had over 100. Just fake names so fox nation had fans crazy about the thing. They would swarm you. If you did something against them. They had to measures because there was this par now with a which is another trait that people would figure out it was coming from fox. So one person had to buy on her own visa or mastercard a, you know, one of the thumb drives you plugin for wireless access so the ip address couldnt be traced back. Another one had to use that was true for a number of people. They had to use reproposed laptops bought from secondhand store napes had to use an aol dial up account. They thought it would be tougher inspect the age of wide spread. They to use aol. It was a fox at least they only had a few. [laughter] its loaded down. Its humorous when you stay out loud. Human trass read as well. Well. But theres they were called at 2 00 in the morning by the boss who is sort the number two pr person. And the top pr person saying why have you embarrassed me. The person woke up said what have i done . You didnt rebut to the comment and its comment 68 on a blog that nobody reads. What is your problem . She said you cant let any go unrebutted. Much worse what they did deemed to stories they didnt want done. In 2008, you have an incredible primary season Hillary Clinton and president obama. Cable ratings rise for cnn n significantly. Thats a story. Fox had been giving everyone a drubbing since 2001. Tim goes do a story about it, and at one point essentially says you dont want do this. So you no idea what they can do. He said what do you mean . Just dont do this. So he writes a story. Its a ratings story, folk. Theyre a dime a dozen. The morning it ran, he got a voice mail mess frag a guy who ran a website called a gossip website. No longer exists and said give me call. Im writing a thing about you. Within an hour and a half he had come back from rehab. Shane and i had no idea this when i was setting up to write this year, theres a guy named Matthew Flamm who covers a. Publication and he set out roughly the same time a similar story and he couldnt get anywhere with fox. They wouldnt even return his call for a comment so he got an email from a senior producer for the Oreilly Factor and he said i heard they are digging around about this. You are right and its flipping people out. The ratings are flipping people out. We are going to put our anchors instead of an anchor and put in bill oreilly is the chief anchor for the conventions. Fox for whatever you want to say about fox and the sort of strong thinking that often goes into their story selection they have their news anchors time and again angry that Coverage Even as msnbc has Chris Matthews and keith olbermanolberman n anchor some of their convention coverage. They said were going to have separation for the news offense anchored by our newspeople. This was a big change for fox. They advised from the strong line between the two things. They had emails back and forth. He goes to his boss and he says i can get a second source. The boss as well just put it on line. This is what we call a big mistake carried it turned out that as soon as he put it up there were a number of industry web sites that had full quotes on the record from fox saying who would do something that stupid . You never put noah reilly is an anchor of this event. We wouldnt do that. If somebody is to believe that what kind of credibility jim is derived to them . That is somebody who does understand fox. So he was set up. He called the woman and he said what the hell happened . Her response was, who are you . He said you sent me an email and she said ive never heard of you in my life. They faked an email and i have this confirmed by people. Somebody was inside fox at the time to set them up to make and publish something false and to drive the story as credibility. He before we open it up to questions we are here in los angeles and the Los Angeles Times is the owners have signaled that they would like to sell the l. A. Times. Is Rupert Murdoch interested in the l. A. Times and if so its a sign of how political interest and business interests can on line. Murdoch has said i think of the l. A. Times that he would be interested but he doesnt think the regulators would allow them to do it at a time that he owns two tv stations here in los angeles. Its been a couple of years since he is said that though. He it has. He has always been interested in doing the things he wants to do in allowing the regulators to catch up with him so for example in new york, he owns the New York Post and a money losing proposition. He was by the way embraced by politicians by both arms when he came in and the two previous owners of the post went bellyup financially. So there are ways in which you know he is sustaining something that may not have a pure financial logic in new york and the Los Angeles Times i think is a smaller form and does have more of a logic. Its just not a huge profit maker in the same way but you know he basically has two tv stations in new york as well. He was given a waiver to allow all these properties in new york in new york and that waiver expired a while ago and he still owns it. I think he has shown himself in a variety of ways to be willing to do things and allow regulators to find the path to do it. It would be a fascinating thing at the did. Think about it, the l. A. Times is the biggest general interest, excuse me, general interest daily paper that covers the Entertainment Industry with a strong and keen eye and for him to own that when his vast wealth is now sustained not really by newspapers but by the entertainment wing, you know is complicated at best. I think that he would be able to sustain a news staff that might be larger than Hedge Fund Managers or other kinds of investors that might come in to take it off the tribunes hands but you know one of his former reporters and to johnson for whom he personally intervened to help get abcs visa for reporting in china after johnson disabused authorities and the journal called the deal of fastein bargain. He said you have the guy with deep pockets and he will protect you in a lot of ways but you are dealing with someone who at times will compromise and affect the coverage that you have put out there. He is quote which i thought was a really good quote in the book under murdoch the journal has become or good unless excellent. It was a former Top Executive at the wall street journal are told that to me. How do you feel about taking some questions from a los angeles audience . Now we have to time to take questions from view. There are two was running around, jennifer and myself. Jennifer is on the left. A couple of announcements. If you could please they are first and last name before your question we would appreciate it and if you could meet us in the aisle we will come to you guys. Jennifer i believe has the first question. First question right here on the right. He hello, bob. You have been a terrific guest host on the cnn program which covers the media and i was wondering is there a chance you could be the permanent host of that program and can you tell us the background of the name . Well, to deal quickly with the first part of your question, i dont know. Its been an interesting exercise. Its generous of them to invite me down and its given me new insight into what it takes to do that kind of job to be on Live Television and i appreciated the opportunity to do that. You really have to ask them. I think thats their call and it would very much depend on what it meant. Im not looking to leave npr anytime soon. Its been a fantastic home. Even at times as i cover my own situation but its been a permanent tremendous place and to be a lot to do that with full intellectual honesty in reporting shows their values and i appreciate and admire it. The second part of your questioa family. We explored at once with a professor at yale when he came up with ideas about clouds or something so i did the story once about baltimore hebrew university. The president sent a note to me and i came out to their archives they have a nice judaic archives there and they have a book of jewish and it was in there which amazed me. I think about two dozen in the u. S. And the book said that is what we did. He hi my name is Tom Rosenberg and thank you for doing this. Really enjoyed it. Many years ago i met a guy who knows Rupert Murdoch outside the office outside of work and he says to me out of the blue, this guy murdoch, he is not a happy man. Not a happy guy. Its all about control with him. You have met the guy. What do you think . I mean, you know there are times where he is has felt more familial and client to his newspaper than his adult children. He is a complicated cat. Hes not into introspection or selfreflection. His kids love them but there are times at the kind of hate and to map. James feels that his father is 82 years old and should be giving up the reins as ceo several years earlier probably before the scandal broke in james would have been out of there. He wouldnt have been caught up in it. James is his younger son who really had his chances to take over as chairman and ceo of news corp. And exploded in a scandal because he had given assurances because he had privately approved as the guardian showed in its relentless reporting, he had proved the secret payoff not only to keep the case out of court but to keep knowledge of it out of the public eye so that police could continue to maintain some of their investigators were compromised police could continue to maintain that this was limited to just a few isolated cases like the royals. He has been driven by a sense of grievance. He also has fun. He sees it fun when he lands a punch in his publications against somebody who thinks deserves it. He thinks its fun to take down a celebrity a notch or two. You know the thing is he employs an army of gossip columnists and reporters but there is no bigger gossip than he is. He loves the stuff so he is a complicated character. The surrogate daughter, i think has had a closer relationship than he did with Elizabeth Murdoch who the kind of overlooked in Robert Thompson has been seen as a surrogate son. He wanted desperately lachman to come back from australia and locklin didnt want to do it. Didnt appreciate the fact fact that his fathers didnt protect him from the infighting of Peter Chernin who was then president of news corp. And roger ailes who set these landmines for him that were set off. By why did he bite the tenured . It was interesting to me because the decision to buy this vineyard which i think the price tag was in excess of 28 millioe dollar the same as the price tag put on the yacht they used to gallivant the oceans. He said this is what i used to enjoy with my wife whom i am about to divorce and this would be a good place for me to forging new life in my ninth decade so im really going to enjoy that bear. I think it was a question of him wanting a fresh start and a fresh environment. On your right. He hi my name is amy lu. What do you think about the reputation or criticism that fox news have in terms of women on the news channels and showing more skin and more cleavage or shorter skirts and even more legs. What do you think of that and were able to talk to Rupert Murdoch about that . That . No, i wasnt able to talk to him about that in part because he didnt want to talk to me at all but you know, i think roger ailes would hear what youre saying and say yes and . Certainly television is a visual medium and roger takes advantage of that. He likes his and confident in his women attractive. There is something, theres a show called the five at 85 now that replace glenn beck and its usually about 41 or 32 conservative to liberal and usually the mainstay liberal is the skype log akel who ran walter mondales campaign which is by concession one of the least fruitful president ial campaigns of all time. This person was caught up in a personal scandal. A person on the left had been in trouble so there for we owe him for the wrecks or action. He is not the most forceful advocate for representative of the democrats. One of the things that i learned about didnt happen to make the cut, theres a camera that they have and what they do is basically, im told this is absolutely true, they a sort the women who are going to be on because theres a rotating cast of characters although there are some pictures applied basically to the degree of attractiveness and basically the degree of attractiveness for the legs and i believe its a seat on the front right word having arranged the hierarchy they put the woman with the best lakes there and the camera goes directly for the legs. Essentially they are what is called the leg cam and that is to accentuate the sleekness of design of that particular person on air. If youre asking whether attractiveness is a part of the formula i would say you bet. He another question on your right. He hi by megan. Im curious what you think is going to happen to the murdoch empire postmurdoch . Well yeah i dont think anybody i mean look when you talk to people there they say if murdoch retires or they say if murdoch dies, because you know they dont, he doesnt believe he will die really and they dont want to in any way indicate that they might possibly disagree with the boss on this pivotal issue. There is no thought however to the idea that absent rupert that it makes sense to hold onto all these newspapers. There are so many losing so much money and in australia he is dominant there again. He is 65 to 75 of the National Newspaper market so if you think it doesnt really matter they are scattered against the different cities the way it matters is he sent carl allen who used to be the editor of the Daily Telegraph in australia but sent him back to australia during the general Election Campaign this fall and it was one of the most punishing media campaigns against any political figure you have ever seen. Kevin braude was the centerleft and minister who may well have deserved to loose and may well would have gone down without murdoch lifting a finger but every day on the tabloids in every day in the australian they found new ways to represent this immoral and effectual illegitimate especially even though he supported his rise to Prime Minister in 2,072,008. They turned against him and went to the conservative guy. The belief in australia is that it insured, it locks the victory for the Prime Minister and even if avid would have won without spending a dime avid is of the belief that he owes that engraved heart to Rupert Murdoch and therefore certain dishes and are coming up can murdoch obtain more than the 50 of the fox cable operator and provider down there . Can murdoch fight the government making a Huge Investment in subsidizing brought and Internet Access for everyone which is an Ambitious Program under redd and his labor allies down there. You know things that murdoch doesnt like comic matters that he is somebody in the Prime Ministers office that can make a difference. That political influence however is not how James Murdoch looks at the world. He doesnt want the newspapers. They have been a headache and verbal scandal in england. Why not just cut it off and send it to the ocean. The locklin didnt want to come back. I think that investors didnt want them to do it. One of the biggest investors and news corp. Described the newspaper business is like an ice cube. He said it was melting fast. So, these papers have in some ways a constituency of one and i dont think that news corp. Will look the same as it does more than 18 or 24 months after murdochs departure. Is there a civil war within the company . Well you know, heres the thing. You have got about four adult children, as wife are the ones whove been active. James locklin the older brother and Elizabeth Murdoch who is quite talented head of her own Production Company that murdoch bought to try to get her back into the company. What most people consider a wildly inflated price and his daughter prudence by his first wife who has to be involved in the politics of news corp. And is seen as a honest person because shes not personally ambitious ,com,com ma they control about 40 of the voting shares of news corp. So along with an allied and a prince who is a Media Executive in the middle east to murdoch has invested some of his own money and, they control about 47 so the shareholders have almost no influence. He really you have these for adults after murdoch goes were going to have to decide what they want the two companies 21st century fox that was spun off in june and the smaller news corp. To look like. That will be a fun meeting. [laughter] we have time for just one last question but before we take the last question i want to take the time to thank both of you for being here tonight and joining us. I want to thank Arizona State university Walter Cronkite school of journalism. Presenting tonights event. Cspan for joining us. This will be rebroadcast sometime in the next couple of weeks and i also want to remind everyone skylight books is their Favorite Local bookseller and is here and has plenty copies of murdochs world the last of the old media copies. Now our last question. Thanks. My name is lisa solomon and for full disclosure i worked for