Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV 20130216

Thats very nice introduction. Thanks to all as you, too, for coming. We are honored to be here. [inaudible conversations] im sorry. Can you hear me now . Okay. Particularly nice to be here because they have written a book. A unfortunately the right of that disappeared a few years ago. The Atlantic Monthly where we began our careers and moved to washington. That was that was bad enough. That was bad enough. Now i discovered that the bar was also a ameristar career along the way is gone, too. I went to dinner someplace. It wasnt the ritz. I said, where is the real roots . They said no, you mean the tosh. Very unsettling. Thank god the Boston Public Library lives. Makes it all the more grateful for us to be here. They cue. Still, the hub of american culture. By the acoustics working now . Okay. Good. Well, tracy and i, we worked on eight books together. This one was different i was simply describe, i read what he wrote. He wrote again and we talked some more. Eventually the book began to emerge. A futures dollar was looking in vain at his main issues for evidence. It is that that we destroy the evidence. There is no evidence. As he likes to point out, my handwriting is legible. There were useless. In any case, the spoken word. Of the course of nearly 40 years writing and editing nonfiction and we decided to write some down. The result is a collaboration in truth, meaning this town might have to do some real work. All but suppose the fresh problems of a writer, and in this case the problem was with not one, but to riders. We also talk about a point of view. That was our point of view. Telling the story. Debt combine our to voices into one, something became clear at the start. I can comfortably use the word we, but on the page the word just occurred to me. So the first person plural hit the dust. Some general things that we wanted to say the heather. The correction in the analysis and some actual advice which would be examples from the work of various writers. The largest pitches of the book are written in the third person. Also telling some stories about our work with each other. Tinkly each one could tell some stories about the other. The storytelling sections of the book are told and are separate. A complicated the structure but i and we and they, whoever they are. It works. Tonight we will go through that structured by reading passages in both modes. Starting with the recollection of the first piece of work we did together, the first articles of the atlantic when i was an editor where was an editor. I will follow with the passage from the first chapter im beginning, and then we will roll on from there. All right. I just wanted to you a little story. This book, in 40 years of working you come up with rich and virtual habits, and one of ours is to give the end of the riding of bad reviews. Especially get this. It is a kind of magical thinking notion that if you really thought of all the bad things someone and say that since they have already been said it will have to be said again in public. It did not always work. One notable occasion, i was in seattle, i think. Let me know. There is one review that we forgot to write. And he wrote the best review of this book of hours. Today it is a one liner. Unranked and like an old wasp. The first among worked with top was over the phone back in 1972, a belief. Acting 73. We talked about an article i was trying to write. The conversation went like this. What was wrong with my article, i asked. Well, first of all, he said, and he pauses a few is going to have to say this, the first sentence. [laughter] and i said, a spectacular opening. My for sentence read, from the spring of 1971 someone went mad for blood in the sacramento valley. Best student in iowa had praised the sentence. Todd did not like it. No, he says, it was melodramatic. Reminded of this conversation nearly 40 years later but said with a touch of irony which i have not heard his voice back then, well, i guess i stand by that judgment. The following passage from the chapter called beginning, the chapter of the buck, are unified. Midas will begin. Imagine to this reader, the intelligence. Those some things that the reader did not know of the reader as knowledge that is available the you. Good writing creates a dialogue with the imagined reader. Criticizing. Sometimes what you know isnt something you can pulled out from the shelf and deliver. Often what we discover in the course of writing, as in the best of conversations with a friend, as if you and the reader do the discovery. Writers are often told that they must grab or hook or capture the reader, but think about those metaphors. Violence, compulsion, the relationship you might want to have a criminal. The beginnings exercise. You cannot make the reader let you in the first sentence of the paragraph. You can lose the reader right away. You dont expect the doctor to kill your once, but the doctor can surely alienate your once. The best to much confusion. There is lot to be said. The most remarkable firstline in american literature, so wellknown and sometimes cited out of context, it is understood as a magisterial command, a booming voice from the pulpit. It is more properly heard as an invitation. Given the complexity that follows, and his marvelous and simple. If you try youll probably find yourself saying the conversation. You cant tell at all at once. A lot of the art of beginning is deciding what to withhold until later or never to say at all. Pick one thing and the time. Prepare the reader. Tell everything the reader needs to know in order chair read on until more. Instructed not to bury the lead. Make sure they to of the most important facts of the story first. This translate poorly the longer forms of writing. The heart of the story is a place to arrive at, not a place to begin. Of course the reader needs a reason to continue, but the best reason is often simply confidence that the writer is going someplace interesting. One morning the face of wisdom comes over National Public radio with an interview with a jazz guitarist who remembers working with the great mouse davis. The terse recalls that davis once advised him about how to play a certain song. You dont have to play. He admits he had no idea when. He would then play the song better than he ever imagined it could. Play it like you dont know. Advice, but the writer can make some sense of that. Dont concentrate on technique. Concentrating and yourself. Give yourself to your story, your train of ideas are your memory. Dont be afraid to explore, even to his state. You going to surprise yourself. Theres a trust of another kind of work. You might not know where exactly where youre going, but you have to set out. Somehow when without calculation the reader will honor the effort. Once a british colony, and interesting usage for word. If a man does something particularly wrong he is often told he tried. That might well be an insult in american english it is high praise. The recognition that certain intention lies at the goal of the achievement. Not trying to impress, but trying to get somewhere. Okay. Back in the first person. That sentence, that opening sentence of that article of mine. For months and months it remained a voice on the phone delivering bad news of miracles. It did not take me very long to fix the first problem, the problem of the opening sentence in the spring of 1971 someone when mad for blood in the sacramento valley. After only a few were versions the sentence that in may of 1971 the police in california began to find mend buried in the ground outside the town in the central sacramento valley. A memorable sentence, but clear enough and no longer as the sound. Melodramatic. Supplied by the author. The facts. The talk kept finding problems in my article. The largest one lay to my trip to describe the murderers child alone from complex affair, most of which i had witnessed. I was brought about a thousand pages of notes, a few pages of manuscript and manage to convey both the essential facts of an event like that and some of its labor, tedium, occasional drama and weirdness. How to overcome a perfectly sensible conviction. This cannot be done. Time after time my road. Waited a few days and then call them up only to hear that my account was still at best confusing. A first fl like yelling at him. Youre reading is obtuse. Of course it did not yell. Talking about what had written and will my riding said not. A weary sound. Once or maybe twice. A short laugh, start to tell me that what i had just said it was too preposterous. Never raised his voice. And did not keep the nets have made during those recessions were the many times are root of that article. I wrote about 2030. A first i felt like yelling at the most interesting thing was the comment made in the margins of my biography. [laughter] but there was no better. My dreams of writing something, and necessity of writing something publishable. This was it for me. Really think it would have gone to law school if they simply kill the article. As they should have done. I would have gone into place. Months of reading the same all material from an all but a unpublished writer for relatively story. When he put up with this. But some newsletter raise the question with his wife and she said emmys willing to work as hard as the writer is. Some of those writers come into the world believing that we are fulfilling favors only ask others to read what we have written. Would like to think that during those many phone calls i began to learn otherwise, that when someone takes the trouble to read and respond honestly i hope to feel grateful, even if i dont. But i did feel grateful, even jubilant once the article was finally published and in the corner of the atlantic. Said he was impressed with the work and put into the article. Did not say you was impressed with the article itself. This was honest, not unkind. At the time i did not care. Publication was enough. In good pros will you write about three forms of nonfiction. But the essay, the mark, and one we know best, the sideshow narrative. Here is some of what we say and what constitutes a good story. They begin by spending a dare to making the outline. The essential elements of the story. As this are trying to tell it to give every turn, it seems formidable its like learning a rig by driving it rather than by memorizing the map. The danger does not lie in making mistakes. Its good to make them really. But in committing to send to a promising conviction that may be hard to abandon it proved unworkable. Conversely, some writers deliberate for days, weeks, months on end until they feel sure the plan. You can never know if you understand your story into you try to tell it. Pursuit with enthusiasm, but leave yourself away out. The connections among them. In the end you have to try to find the method that works best for you. It riders to solve this theme half halfhearted of fifth of looking at it with the seeing the world in the same sense. The story this in the individuality. The many archetypal stories, narratives, trial ashab, narratives of the chase, struggle between good and evil that is subverted. It achieved and that happens. Most nonfiction writers, theyre looking for narratives. And as see the real thing. Dont usually work him even a story that has already happened to my story that is going to reconstruct. That carters zealous. The murder wasnt the murder. Nonfiction writers, especially ones with actual narratives are vulnerable said disappointments. I dont have a book, one writer says in the events that dont deliver. Everyone recognizes the story. A broader way of thinking. It is in this drama. An extra context to be good guys and bad guys. But the most important concept happens to happen within the narrative. In inscrutable character named for the person, author and reader understanding better than 04. Stories of the lens to yield the dramatic to. The narrative of revolution. Revelation. Learning something. The story of high drama. Is that all. The deeper trauma of revelations of challenge for the nonfiction writer. A rider that has happened into a cliffhanger story. And opportunity, often a potential solace for the writer who has not had a story that is not. The story has a chance to live only if they do something important. A problem which is since retired. The reader. Trying to understand them. The first person. The refunding of story has always depended less on separate something both. They begin with a chance, then known nothing more assuming the arrival of a good idea of the story. The problem is a good deal of sense to arrive. The first time elected this, the lack of it. A few years later was able to hire a team of carpenters, admirable step in a straight nestle of the messes i have made my idea was to write a book mostly about them. It would follow the carpenter, a builder on some sort of construction project yet to be identified. I try this idea on anderson and agents, letter france. No one liked it. A given up listening to other possibilities. A rare book about the captain of and thats captain of industry. New york citys skyscrapers. The cbo said that he did not want the world to know how little he actually was published. As so much. Its pro which true. A road a few articles, but i went out west thinking of margaret a book about wilderness, but when i try this idea on bill woodward who was the head editor at the atlantic, you tell me, admirable. He said it would be more useful. Finally one day i said, you know, literally like to try to write about this. I remember elected me quizzically as if to ask why i had not told in this before. Well, do it. Ended up following registry of carpenters of the principals involved in the building of a singlefamily house. The research took about a year and then an index tomorrow less, i was hired to my office to try to begin to make sense of it. I imagined this moment, a great transition. Much the same for most nonfiction writers. Best apart from the world, on our tables. Stories and then. Once again and sure. But those times a usually glorying. As started writing. Without much of a plan. But this time was different. I actually felt called. Caging up the window, listening, the booker wanted to write. The third is something that the sound of my mothers voice. The sound of an old novel. The centerright. Writing quite happily for the last six months a new parliament , actually, when i was working on. And so i told them. Youre writing a whole book about the building of the house . I would have said, but by then i felt sure there was a good story it seemed to be opening in many directions commander was fascinated by the architect, the homeowners and builders and sometimes the stormy relations among them. It was a massage a torre. A story about class and multidimensional us. The naysayer, where only of but tell them the whole thing which would take too much time and effort. Besides that i wanted to keep it all on paper. I tend to worry now on a story easily summarized. In summary, interesting. Even worse, exciting. Let me to a suspicion. Across party rule. It is not always a bad sign. [inaudible conversations] competition. Unless being edited. The different approach, but not exactly consistent. A coast my memory of what it looked like when we first left. After reading a potential. He accused me of describing him as. [inaudible] anyway. For my part of that effort. I like to read the first book we worked on together, not just that but the time of working on it and especially the final say that took place over, perhaps the weaker maybe to some of the atlantic brownstone in arlington. The whole. I love, especially after hours. Sometimes allow was there that working on an article i would take a break and wander the halls. The place was utterly filled than. The night watchman is marijuana smoke rising from the basement. I could wander into an office in gauge. The writers had published in the atlantic. Bloodying the signatures. The row and reid. The computer said not yet replaced. It was in retrospect a blessing. The manuscript. Enough to be considered reasonable facsimile of about. Sometimes done. The pages. Across the floor. In itself, the illusion of distance and control. The difficulty. The system really begins. A couple of pages of the floor. Some passage. In its grand and indispensable. That was when i began to learn what was beneath, constantly learning. Out of focus and much harder, of course. The words that, nonetheless by the time we were done alas, but there were still ashes and the fireplace. This smell with the odor. The edges of the tattered manuscript and listed on his bed. A good book. I dont think ive read another quite like it. The highest ever heard from them or want to hear. He shot at data should be mixed. Nothing much the same. A response. You can imagine what a shocker was. Celebrated. Including but not limited to how short it would be. In the case, seriously disingenuous. Sometimes your letter logic. That i see but that i am legend. The potential. The reality. The possibility being composed. The editors model. The no writer known to me and so enthusiastically, a great gift to be able to consider euro. The things we have learned, perhaps the most important. Sometimes it seems there are perfectly. All good writing, a context. Every get passage. You dont want to make it harder than necessary. The best thing and enter to do is to help the writer think. This is the most satisfying part. Calabria level of structure and ideas. The process that weve worked out of the years, the final read. We read it aloud, usually alternating chapters, one reading in the and making little checks. I know this is not a universal standard, and so understandable. The writer cannot hide from the sound of his own voice. Writer editor like. All of. A sign as it is to correct the last. You know all books are imperfect. The lifelong, the first copy of the book for the publisher. A pleasure, he said. At some point in our proceeding most dont know this, this whole book is a draft the draft. The draft. And made him chime in with my own message. Never completing anything. The career, disagreed. He had never exchanged in a grew word. Being polite. It also at our well established goals. Our association after we have been working to get a. Advertising itself with cultural criticism. It was that. Close to the end. Open this. A bold man. Clark, you make in the margins, marching through the pages, leaving various messages, one of them wanting to end it. One reported structure was should can this. Still recovering. It was not in sell we leaped into the present book that i felt this whole other worldly power. Add the opposite problem. In genuine. Trying to make is so sharp. The paragraph. Unleash him. Though, brother. The tenth of it. [laughter] [applause] [silence] [inaudible question] reading. You do it only for each other or did you by reading to others . I have a reading. I used to read the things i love to my wife. Here tonight. Its just, i tend to do it less often. That is the most reading aloud and in the half. Well, i would like to youre a little bit more about how you think the stories . You actually wait for greatness to descend . Do you go out really looking for ideas and how does that happen . Howdy you first put pen to paper . As a structure or a paragraph . What do i do . I occasionally, you know, we say the story is not a subject. It is not. Occasionally someone has the benefit, but not by alone. It sort of a novel thing. But i dont but thats not really, what ive noticed is that a story begins for this character, that is when you find somebody who is enthusiastic. Then very often from that. Sometimes. The figures. I have anywhere. Special ways. How do i i dont i take lots and lots of notes. I like to take them long and. According to the right. I got in that have been a little bit. To this. There was a man who did not want me to be seen taking notes openly in public. And i so my life is divided into parts. I talk a lot about my research every day. At some point i decide to start to try to write. I try not to spend a lot of time making a lot of plans. A list of things that they should be there. Adjust to right. Everett is best possible. Like to say having written bad. And then i go back. Checks of it. He said. Its fine. Keep going. Serve over. Ten drafts are so. Changes. Usually. Yes. Narrows it down. Playing golf. But he is saying well a badly. Yes. People say they you have all your children equally, but if there were one book or do you have a favorite . Is there a book that you call to mind as your favorite . Well, i think that is a really bad thing. One stubborn differences lady. The strongly. Is nothing more well, i dont know. I guess what was most useful to me a have not read in years. I dont know. I like to know. But i dont use it. The have and all. Look back fondly. Havent really read that either. I think that, i dont know, i think that the best piece of work that it, the mountains. The farmers. Ive never read a book. I didnt think was as good a book as i could read the time. Then ellis says that it would not let me give that. With is your favorite of the things your tongue . I have a sort of contrarian favorite. They my favorite book, the sense that it is a book i can go back to with the endless pleasure. Just picking of this memoir, which is from the bonds of reporting and narrative. That it meaningfully. Mother hated that book. [laughter] someone said some im afraid that youre praised it. This book is almost comic. And basically, it was more than almost. It was a very funny book. Back. And wondering whether he wrote this book from your own experience in writing or did you write this also against a background of other sources, other books that have been written without writing . Well, for my part i never read any of those books. Not one of them. I have read them over the years. We provide a list. Somebody has to abcaten. But actually, the list command its a good one, but it varies. Its expensive, the suggestions of lots of people who books i dont claim to be an expert on that whole genre. Designer in which we now participate. Bud demean no, in my experience this is the thing. You make maybe not in every page, let something useful. So the readers, i mean, never deliberately we did not try so turned. To do a comprehensive analysis of them. We tried not to. We take just a couple. Wanna do down there. Instead of the side. So thats it. Well, i think what we tried to do is to write about the hideous. That to be didactic, but we wanted to talk. Everything in this book is something that we think we learned in the course of working over 40 years. So all of that presented in two different ways. There really isnt and is derived from that just as we mentioned, writing of most. Plenty heather as a writer and editor, but also as readers. We have a little sport. One of the best of these books. They strengthen. The book says, the worry. And then he says, well, what is in the less worried . And closed the speech. Never, never, never, never. And then which one would you leave out . The book is changing. And in terms of electronic media, eccentric, a level a lot of your books the product looks. How you relate to audio books to back to you have any insight . Idea looks, i read a couple. The most disconcerting experience. It was fun. It can get very tedious. In know, you mispronounce one word or several, you have to go back and do it over again. It can take a long time. The worst experience i never had , the average version, and i knew it was a bridge, was still. And i guess there was in the studio. All set up perry asserted reading it. Havent done that again. I enjoy doing that. The latter as a kid. As i said, i liked reading aloud probably more so. Are you ready . Could you talk a little bit about how you came right . Sure. The was in his office at the atlantic. I was finished. A first p said it for atlantic and i think, was an article about vietnam, combat veterans. And well, it was our way to make a living. Me, it did not get paid a lot. And it i was kind of hitting my the word used to be camino, he says, how would have the least covered. And then the risk. In no, at the time, the risk. Anyway. And then sometimes spend a little more time up in the office. Drinking. Having been started. The line statement. But what happened. I somehow, by the time we get back to his office, the responsibility of just telling me what to do next. But not another article. One to write a book. I had this idea that somehow like to make a living offended that. And he said to let you listen. And i thought that was pretty funny, actually. I said Something Like, well, what about the students. There were still, at least for me. Theres no such thing as a personal computer. Tell me this. It was something of their call the minicomputer. That, and indeed, he knew the person who was leading a team, who worked for out Computer Company and said i should go talk to them. I did. In that was a guy. And he was, indeed the he and his team of engineers were working of the computers. With us started. Did not think it was a very good idea, but did not have any other ideas. Botox this guide. I was so puzzled. Fascinated. I wanted to go on and look harder. Remember coming in a few days later, zero weeks later, Something Like that. He shut me at, at simi off to one of his lieutenants and took me to a corner of the cafeteria. This place was filled with cameras. And he started playing me these stories about how engineering. The cost of wars. People who shot from the hip. Blow on the floor. And then, you know, and i said, as far as i could see his talk about the creation. Thises thats pretty much. Read . Yes. Whoever. However. What is your what do you think is your best characteristic . Allows people to accept you as a fly on the wall report . Its always makes me of your books. Thank you. I dont know. I tried to be. I do try to be a good guest and the lives of the people who let me into their lives. And i do try, and i have done this more and more conscientiously as the years have gone by. I think of them smarter about this. Try to make sure that for the most part i have written about socalled ordinary people. Although some of them, you know, the same. But people who have the complete right to their privacy and like other people. And so i tried to mention, let me do this. And then camille know, try to be as Pleasant Company as possible. Although camino, just racing. And i was such terrible company. Gathering camino, but there was something. You know, wondered how does this. But the quietest person. Nunn and his private life. And generally have a lot to say. But i finally realized, he gets it out of the system before he was. He stays quiet. Do you hear from rural subjects . To keep up with people you read about . Someone said that we should get them all together in a room. But then have that me. All right. Some of them. Some of them might to. So, but not completely at of touch. For the record actually. Because most, Walking Around the corner. They have written. But these relationships, is very complicated. And, you know, it can be very hard, even when well intended but both sides, but worked out very well. It works out pretty well. Probably want to know. Get past that. But a lot. Quite differently. You know, you dont need to get at of the are but. Bossi because you really dont want a recipients. I have heard a lot of growth. And i think, well, and the skill. A schoolteacher. Are going to have to stop prescind. A quick story. He had retired as that teacher and manager, principal. Which it we have become reluctantly. No the st. Patricks day parade. You have been named the grand marshal, which is a very great honor. And i went to the dinner. There was this highschool band, the majority of students reporter rican. Some mostly poor rican students, but there were singing beautifully. The problem was they had been drinking quite a bit. Making a lot of noise and just getting increasingly irritating. And trying to get. And i said, though, making all that alcohol. Well, none of you were ever in that class. That was the inspiration and a senior for wild up. Sometimes to subjects. Almost everyone has written about it. You incorporated the new machine. The habits you make. No. Vetted not. Where is the title come from . That came out of your brittle brain, believe it and not. And it nearly bit the dust because somebody in a little town did not like it. High around so long. Changed. So in some way. What about that. And so he had that total long before you have the book. Well, i guess what i was trying to assess. I was really intrigued camino, looking back. It is not true anymore. And high tech these days, some for engineering, computer engineering, particularly so for engineering. Used to be really nasty, nasty. Converge. All of those. No longer, no wonder insults. In fact, all these books. And that, those signs, almost all the poison and almost all the money. But back then it was different. Back then it was always something very great and up all fields of engineering. Like a draft world. Many to many people, particularly people who read the liberal arts, english majors. And there was and as it was for me. It was quite a revelation to find myself among these engineers who were espys. And really stood there. What is interesting about it. Complicated. And i guess that title. The suggestion was, this person was so low. I was very interested in the question of whether interesting work is Still Available in industrial. But that did not i did not get. For years, using computers just out of sheer perversity. I think undone. For time. Thank you all very much for coming. [applause] thank you. Tell us what you think about our programming this weekend. You can tweet us. booktv, comment on our facebook welcome larcenous and email. It tells the story of special