Really wanted to create a box of nobody else could create it is going to outdo everybody. You know its just sort of, you know, it was fascinating and it grew really frustrating for all the people from apple who moved over to next with him you know . They all eventually come i think everybody eventually left. Left. I was struck by the number of interviews that youve quoted in that section when hes trying to build next enemy times hes referring to apple. In almost every interview as you were talking about it hes referring back to apple or his comparing something thats being done with something apple is doing. Was that the case that was his only reference point. I dont think he was just obsessed with it, which he probably was but thats all he knew. Thats the thing people forget about steve. He spent a year or have major in college, he went to india, worked for atari, but that was not a real like very corporate job by any means. And so his only experience with anything had been really apple. And so everything that was his yardstick. And yeah, he had gotten run out of apple but it was still his yardstick. And so i think its by default what he was always compare things to. Our cover picture, the cover photo was taken by doug, and he had this book fearless genius out with a lot of photos from that period. And i notice that the caption on one of them were jobs is out in the field with a soccer ball is steve is trying to be human, or steve playing at being human at that point which is harsh. But it is as if, you know that apple period happened in this intense rush. Those years were crazy anthony got to next and it was almost like that was what he could try out being a leader trying out being a real leader. Hedhe had only been ceo of apple for two months and he kept butting up against reality. We interviewed Scott Mcneely which is always fun and speakers speed is and who he was competing against against. And scott said no we were never worried about them because they understood the Workstation Market so much better than jobs did. I want to talk during these Wilderness Years of a few pretty transformational relationships as it turns out that steve had the first is with ed. For those of you dont know probably one of the most amazing Business Executives in america is so obscure. User fellow in the museum i will say that. Who was the ceo of pixar come and you talk about coming out of that experience that steve had with pixar and relationship he had with ed catmull in particular and to write without the lessons he learned at pixar there would have been no second great act at apple. Can you talk about this relationship and how it shaped in . I think thats why, the thing about in this book is you know its the first book we have done. I never want to work on a book that is not about some fascinating. Here we are, we finished the book and were still kind of figure them out in some ways. If you look at the intersection of what happened next and what happened at pixar over at next hes trying to be a leader. Is trying to be a professional manager. He talked some serious nonsense and those years about what it meant to be a ceo. I look back at brinson notes and stories from the time you talk about president noriega and what he should do you know . And the thing is that the over your hes trying to do it all on his own and over at pixar he cant. He cant do it on his own because ed catmull an already great upgrade culture there. They had survivor difficult years. They had, they had missed out on a bunch of different possibilities for their computing. And he was held at bay over there. And he got to see catmull as a manager who had patients come as a manager who successfully managed an incredibly creative team. Steve had an amazing team at next an Amazing Group of creative people, but he could excite them but he couldnt bring them together as a group making steady progress. Transform new additive that come and catmull held in together. And then he saw lasater and animators make toy story, and that was a long project of sort of you know, all kinds of dividends. They shut down the movie for two months at one point. Katzenberg wanted a different approach, yet they fought through, and again, catmull says at some point all our movies suck. And he learned how to do that. And thats what you see when he goes, when he goes back. He had never ever been exposed by any previous mentor to that kind of longterm patience and success. The Group Perseverance you witness, too that came from really the way these people respected each other got along with each other the way to work was divided at pixar. This is an industry where in most movies its abandon ship sees that come together and to Work Together and they fight and end up making a movie. And then they scattered to the wind. This was a different process altogether, making an animated movie. You edit it first and then you make it. And so its a much more disciplined process and it really benefits from doing over and over again. And ed was really good at keeping these people together and getting through a nightmarish process of working for four years on one of these things and going up and down and up and down and coming out the other end. And then turn around and doing it again. This was a huge epiphany for steve that you saw in action back at apple wants basically itunes was sort of the beginning of the were you began to see this, where they would really stand on their shoulders each step of the way and he was very much like what pixar did. So catmull is the patient self or ceo is learning from. The other relationship which i think in the which i think into the kubrick as a very tender relationship is the relationship between jobs and John Lasseter. With a picture. Big tex this is the 2005 oscars will exhort his winning the oscar for the incredible to thats johnston in the front with his suit and his wife nancy next 10. You can see steve Photo Bombing the entire group in the back. This is really fun. That is not devoted we could have published in the past. I want to talk about about the Creative Genius that you saw in lasseter that rubbed off on him in the other way. I would say that lasseter became very good dear, dear friend of steves. They love each other. Is that taken from an john is such a fun guy to beat around the Everybody Loves to be around him. So thats not surprising to me. But the relationship in some ways its sort of like what steves was with the johnny except with johnny they were actually working together and creating together. Steve was sort of happy to be able to just like that picture. He was happy to be there and they watch this guy at work and see what he could do because he just couldnt imagine how you could do that. Theres a will do with jony, too where jony jony ive no symmetry, process and all these things intimately that steve doesnt know but they were more of itself a reinforcing thing in their relationship. At the similarities with a gift is the deepest rural out of watching each of the work. Tell the story if he would about steve and John Lasseter and johns wornout honda. You tell that one. Its great you know . Lasseter had built the house up in glen ellen. Where . Glenallen. So he invited steve and laureen up and so they went up there. The first night they stayed up until 3 a. M. Or so and this was 95 right clicks a it was 95 and they said up until 3 a. M. And basically jobs hot lasseter all about the stock market. He was getting ready Stock Options. He was given a ticket fix our public and lasseter thought this was a slightly crazy anyone to know why not you know . At the next day they were sent out on the porch and they have a beautiful view and theres lasseters car which is a rundown old record i think he said he had thrown his comes over the chairs tshirt. Tshirts over the chairs because they were all gnarled up. Its an old honda. And steven driven up there from cupertino the day before and he thought commuters like you drive that everyday . And that lasseter told us, he was probably thinking, and there goes my animator. So he said thats not going to do anymore. Youve got to buy a new car. So he he said, youve got to buy a new car. I have to approve it. [laughter] and the next paycheck that lasseter got and subsequent paychecks after it include a small bonus for car payments on i think the audi or volvo. Something really save. The volvo that steve had approved. I love that story still theres a similar story that i can tell. The kids are learning and the kids may be gone for something, he would call up and say hey, i want to talk with something, why dont you come on over . Sometimes it was about something really serious, sometimes, i dont know, he just wanted to talk. I went over there once and it is time i was driving an old you will not believe this it was in 1978 toyota celica. This car was like was about the most stolen car in american at one point i think was in 1970 toyota celica. I do know. This one was actually kind of cool when it was new but it wasnt me. That paint was like it was what, flat flat flat with age. It was not cool. So he walked me out with the car after we had been i get number one was were talking about, something to do with probably apple at the time because he was very unhappy with the way things were going there. I was trying to do a story on apple for fortune to time. So he came out and come say goodbye in cl. Looked at me walking towards this awful looking car. He said you drive that . And i said yeah. It cost me 50 bucks. He said youre kidding me . You take your kids to school and that . I said well, yeah when i have to. When lauren can take them i will take the. And he said well that doesnt have airbags. And i said no they didnt have airbags i think honesty. He said you cant have a car like that. Weve heard stories like this about you many many people about how he would tell you how to run your life. Right down to your car. I want to take one small digression before we get to the triumphant return of steve jobs to apple. In 1991, Brent Schlender did one of only two interviews that steve jobs and bill gates ever did facetoface. The occasion was the 10th anniversary of the pc. We have a picture of these three young men standing in steve jobs ike yard, because you did the interview at steves house backyard. You draw such an incredible contrast between the two of them. Obviously, in 1991 you are in very different positions in their careers. You described it as a revolutionary but theres not a revolution happening for him. And gates infected and since im on the evolutionary path. Talk about that that in a few and your judgment about writing about the two of them. First, in general i was surprised at how cordial, how playful the conversation was, because these guys obviously respected each other and they are very different in temperament and different in personality but they have Great Respect for each others success. And back then steve was kind of really kind of fighting the image of perhaps being a hasbeen, where bill bill at the time, this is 1991 it was almost as if he had one. He was going to be worth a billion dollars a little bit later that year. Actually no, it was already worth a billion dollars now that i think about it. But his notion about standardizing lindas computer really opened up the possibilities of turning the computer personal computer into something even more than something merely personal. That it was an architecture capable of consuming many consumers imputes comp even mainframes as long as the scale or the economies of scale that you could get from this architecture was so great that he was just on the cusp of this year can of course from then on it was just a juggernaut. Wasnt quite there yet when this happened but it was just about there. And steve have been trying and trying to convince bill to write software for his next computer which may be he had sold 30,000 units by been. And bill suddenly was, you know those numbers dont even register to him. So that was sort of the issue that they had at that time. During the conversation they took potshots at each other about that, and steve would tell bill you know what . I think you would make computers a lot less good than they could be. And bill would say well we sell a whole lot more of them than you do. And then they would Start Talking a little more philosophical about it. Steve said, you know, this is what the Industry Needs you need to punctuate the equilibrium every now and then to move forward. You cannot move forward incrementally. He suggested budget forward now within. And bill said i completely disagree with that. The best way and its best for your customers, its best for everybody is to steadily incrementally improve these things because its amazing what you can do and the uplift that you get from moores law and everything else. He said we have a lot more we can do in a Software Developer can do a lot more is working with the same platform. So back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And steve finally said, well what i really dont like about your platform is that youve worked everyone to go through this single orifice two program their software. And bill looked at him and said, its a very big orifice. And theyre both about fell out of their chairs. It was just too fun. They couldnt believe they were talking like that. It was fun. The photo that i should give it to you too that we shot that we use on the cover of fortune was just priceless. My favorite of it all. It has been sitting on steves stairwell in his house a perfect stairway, and steve is sitting here come hes a little tired because of course its his house. He sitting here. Once they first sat down, steve, you dont have any shoes on. So he ran up the stairs and got some shoes, put them on but he didnt bother to tie the laces. He sitting there and his shoelaces are untied and and then bill has got this looking like a cat who ate the canary. The two of them their personnel is really come flying out and thats what the whole day was like. It was really fun. I want to set the stage for his return to apple just like including what you talked about with where microsoft went from there. So from 19912000 microsoft revenue went from one point to billion to 23 billion. Its profit went to 9. 4 billion a stock price increased 3000 . So heres steve jobs back at apple, and i want to ask you first of all because you covered him so closely, were you surprised at the time that he made the decision to go back . Well, i saw him a lot during those months after he sold the company, and i know personally that he was very ambivalent about it wasnt sure. His wife has told us of this too that he was not a lot of people thought he had schemed to set this thing up to come right back on a white horse. He really did not have that in mind because it just looked like an impossible job. He just wanted to give his guys away out so they could cash in their Stock Options because next had never gone public so it was a way for them to get some money back themselves, and its also a way for him to pay back cannon and ross perot who invested a lot of money. So thats what he was looking for more than anything. And i think i remember though going over there and he became disenchanted by just how bad the morale was that he found there. And thats what began to make him, well maybe i should. And his wife was very instrument. Steve, you wont be happy unless you try. And she was right. So she didnt stand in his weight either and it just took him a while to get used to the idea and think that maybe he really could save this basketcase. And so thats how that worked. Rick, you touched on something i would love for you to talk about right now, which is an amazing senior team that he had and assembled at apple and then his of building up to connect all those dots and other martial everything he learned to begin to go back and start to make it work at apple. How and why do you explain that in the book about how that happened . Well i think you know, you have to remember what apples situation was. I mean, i was back in new york editing the stories and the only thing i was interested in about apple at that point was were they going to go bankrupt or he was going to bite them. It was really they were in dire shape. The idea of saving the company was one great product was not available to them. That was something he could do. And so he actually he had had all these months, hed been thinking about apple for years and yet all these months of looking at the company and talking to the board of directors and sing emilio at work. He came in and made a series of stepbystep decisions that were really quite good. We talked about think different you know he made it clear. This was directed at the employees. This was a message to the employees to start thinking big again. It was a very demoralized workforce. And then you can look at the whole team is working really well at this point. Fred anderson is making a lot of great moves as chief financial officer, and continuing this sort of layoffs that emilio had started and the financial restructuring. So the finances are going the right way. Imacs takes advantage of worked out jony ive has done in the past and created something that draws attention to the company and suddenly people start saying fun stuff from apple again. But, so there was a stabilization that happened but it was come it was not a sudden turnaround. I think it was a dq who told us that at one point i think was early 2001 he was talking to jobs and the stock price was essentially barely up from when jobs had gotten there had come back, right . It was like they had done all this work. They still had a 4 market share of the personal Computer Market and they had not broken through. It was a period of stabilizing and it couldnt have been company couldnt have been done by the guy who wanted to create, you know, one product and change the world. Remember back to that time though what steve actually presided over was the shrinking of a company. It had been laid out fred andersonedison had the plant and a new the numbers they had to reach a we are talking about a company that had 12 billion in sales before it sort of hit the wall, and now it was half the size. Onefourth or onethird the number of employees. It was not growing but it was profitable. Apple had not been profitable in seven years so that yes they shrunk the it was smaller, but at least they were in the black for the first time. So that was good. I wrote a story back then called the grainy prints of a shrinking kingdom and this one really upset him because [laughter] we took him make them look old in all the pictures and everything. [laughter] a little thing in magazines that people do. It was good because you cant remember, this company was not growing. There something wrong with this picture if its not growing and thats why the stock price isnt going anywhere. I just remember that vividly because he called up and he said do you have to compare us to liechtenstein . [laughter] sorry steve. So he sold the company keep hold of the company back on the brink and is doing something simply love to talk about. Destabilize the company from 972000, and then because we all lived through it, i think its just interesting to line up the highlights of everything that happened as you she recounted in the book. January 2001, itunes is announced. May 2001 the First Apple Retail store is open. October 2001 the ipod business. April 2003 the itunes music this door open. Itunes for windows launch. 2004 they upgrade entire computer product line. 2000 by the green lights the iphone. June 2007 the iphone launch. April 20 and the ipad launches. That is by any stretch a remarkable period of time for any company especially for one also instrumental. And its demonstrative too about how steve always like this for easter you just follow your nose. You can only connect the dots in hindsight he would say which is very, very true. You can pretend you can connect the dots looking forward that you really dont until afterwards. You just have to trust your instincts enter judgment, and thats what did it. But they also, the of the key thing here people probably dont think about was that apple switched completely over to a Contract Manufacturing business, and tim cook was the mastermind of all this. Not only was a good supply chain in getting good prices out of parts suppliers, he was great at the logistics of working with contract manufacturers who are all Getting Better and better, and in china they were getting more sophisticated. You think about what they also did during that time. They learned how to make products by the millions per month as opposed to the tens of thousands. They learned how to turn the crank on we designed those things once or twice a year they learn how to roll out by fighters after that. They could ship 15 million new ipods in time for the launch of the product and they would all be within your tv to be sold. The logistical challenges were enormous and apple got so good at managing office. People dont think about this. They think about the beauty of the brushed aluminum and how cool the software is user interface the way the window bounces a little bit. Thats cool too, but they couldnt do it if they could make them and that gave them this whole new possibility and thats how the Company Started to grow. The are two other relationships in connection with that i want to talk about before we get to audience questions. The first of his relationship with jony ive. We have a picture of Steven Jonnie said at a table together. Rick, what made this such an exceptional thing . Go ahead. I think they are silly things of the relationship that are really interesting. The thing the thing that jony ive came to appreciate i think was that was kind of the relentlessness of the pace and how that opened up possibility of the possibility after possibility. He talked about him one of my favorite things from talking about him was when he talked about how when you create a product and this is not something i had expected to hear from them come when you create a product are two great things that come at it. Theres the product itself and everything you learn in making the product and the learning is as important as the product. And it speaks to what that team was executing over all these years, you know . As soon as you know, well before, well before steve was on the stage introducing a great new product they had already decided that the new product from internally they decided the new product was shipped back and theyre going to start something else. Excuse me. Spent i think he just did a blog post. Use of that word effectively. Somebody did. Maybe it was you, brent. And this is something that the relentlessness they both enjoyed that a lot and it became, it became his primary work relationship. That was an element to it and you actually have this in the book were jony explains it. They were very much simpatico in sort of a philosophical sense. They like to talk the meaning of design and in ways that you think everybodys eyes roll who was around of them in engineering meetings. So they finally learned just not talk philosophically so much during these meetings, but they did when they were together. Its just one of those things that they fed each other. And i think they helped each other realize that they were both constantly changing and other aesthetics were constantly changing, that they have had to be prepared always to change their minds. This is really very important aspect. Its sort of a corollary of the incrementalism that steve had learned, and jony had helped show him in some way. Tim cook had helped show him this, that really paid enormous dividends and was really satisfying part of the way they worked together. And he had learned india changed his approach as a result . I would ask them questions about to reflect on things, i dont reflect. I once had one of the last times i edited him i government or company was 2010 i think it was come and fortunate decide to come i wasnt working for them anymore but they wanted to make in the businessman of the decade, and so come get him this award and put them on the cover, give him an excuse to put him on the cover but he wouldnt talk to them anymore. So they asked me to call and see if i could get a Little Something out of them. So i called up and said okay steve jobs tell me, you know the lessons youve learned what you know about leadership now to make sure the greatest businessman of the decade . And he said, i never looked back. And he said, you know i dont know why youre asking me these questions because why would i tell you anyway . [laughter] so okay, well at least he talked. So i sent it into fortunate we cant wait to get sort of kind of a quote out of it. So the jony ive Steve Jacques relationship pretty wellknown but there is another my surprise a lot of surprise a lot of people and them about it, thats the relationship between steve jobs and bob eiger. Bob eiger, ahead of abc disney, jobs come you document well had a terrible relationship with michael eisner. In fact, said among many terrible things publicly he would never sell pixar to disney. He wanted to undo the entire business relationship with disney. And then eisner leaves and bob eiger comes in and everything changes. Can you talk a bit about that . I think bob eiger had shown itself to be a pretty massive role stepbystep ceo in his own right. But when he first 21st called steve, which was the day before it was going to be announced that he would be the new ceo steve did know him as anything other than eigers number two got into a been a very good company man. I think they found, it took a lot for eiger to get steve to trust him. And he worked at it very hard. That in the months before he became ceo they worked on, eiger agreed abcs shows could be on the video iphone, and they worked very closely together on that. They talked about a lot of Different Things over that time, and that trust you know, created the foundation of a relationship that been lasted for a long time and became personal. They really enjoyed spending time together. He came to really respect tiger eiger and he respected him so much that right before the pixar sale was about to go through, everybody is gathered in emeryville for the announcement this is in 2006. Everybody is gathered for the announcement. Ipr, the press is there. A half hour before the announcement state says hey lets go for a walk. And he told eiger then that his cancer had come back right before this announcement. Nobody knew this at the time aside from his wife and his doctors. That was it. And he told him and he said, you know im giving you an out for this deal. Eiger he said i wanted to live until reits graduation. And eiger said how old is he . And he had for years i think ago at that point and steve told him the expectation that he would live five more years. And eiger decided to go head to go with a different he decided steve is not material to the deal. And he had to make that decision, as he said, you know, in a sarbanesoxley enron world and he had about three minutes to make the decision. It worked out in the long run from and to actually develop a really touching relationship, and it was it was, the families became friendly. He had been warned, too that other disney directors that oh, man do we really want this guy on our board . Hes a know it all. He tells everybody when they are full of it. He will be disruptive. And eiger said well hes going to be the biggest shareholder. You know, its kind of hard to say no. But i go by that time felt good enough about their relationship eiger felt good enough about the relationship. He said i think youll find he will be a great asset to the board. Eiger tells a lot of stores come you have to read in the book about things he did to help disney make a couple of key decisions and the lot of time he put in helping eiger work on certain decisions unrelated to their Retail Stores that they bought back and went about on cruise ships. Is a lot of interesting ways in which steve basically gave eiger really a muscle in a way that he needed to win over the board. But eiger did tell us if you like take them under the table several times in directors meetings. This gets the thing about change also, you know that eiger talk to us about this as great. You know steve judged people to quickly come and that didnt change. He always did that. He recounted a couple of examples of somebody coming into the board and making a presentation and then afterwards afterwards, all right there at the meeting steve would say you do, you should fire that guy down. Hes useless. And eiger is such a steady presence in some ways that is able to say well, you know so hes not good, thats a fault of his. I can accept it with all the rest. Lets take some audience questions. Is the one i think it came up as we talking about the gates. How much did bill gates cooperate with you as you were writing the book . Bill gates is one of the first people we interviewed because well i have a Good Relationship with him, too, and when he heard we got the deal i just said, someday it would be really great to talk to you. He made time force right away, and he was actually a really useful in it at first because it sort of set out expectations of what their actual friendship had become in the latter years of which is all sort of under behind the curtain you know, you didnt see this. I think it will become much closer and shared a lot more time than they ever had in the previous 25 years. That help. But also bill is a great interview, too and always very blood is not the worker candid, we will put it that way. He was really kind of fun to talk to about okay, what was the steve good at . What was a bad at . What made him special . What did you admire about him . He was very open about all this. He did a couple of great things. He stood up at one moment and imitated steve on the stage making a presentation. Which was so cool. So his up there and hes like oh and then theres one more thing. [laughter] and he says, and i had just seen them do that four times back stage and then is like its all new. And then i lost and then he told us he said he said you should call your book dont try this at home. [laughter] thats the scale of what he did. And the other thing he said was, he was like, you know, i talk to a lot of young entrepreneurs and a lot of them want to be like steve jobs and a lot of them a lot of them have the a whole site down. [laughter] its just the genius part that they are missing. [laughter] he was great. Thats great. This was a little personal. People like myself who work for apple really miss being able to listen to his iconic voice your would you ever consider releasing excerpts of the audio tapes speak with sorry, the last part of . Would you ever consider releasing excerpts of the audio tapes we are actually having a conversation . We talked about it. We thought about it. They need some work still. They are not all of them in the greatest shape so im not sure whether they would be reproducible in a way that will be of much use to many people. We talked about our stupid to figure out what the best way is to do that. Theres so much of their anyone needs to be there are still things in there that i dont think really he would have wanted people to hear. It will just take some time because that takes some real judgment before we do that. I know a museum that is pretty good at that kind of thing. [laughter] you could come and curate it. The smithsonian of the west. Thats right. More than just the west. [laughter] we are taking questions right . We all have strengths and weaknesses both personal as well as professionally. What can we learn from steve jobs in terms of managing to recognize our strengths and minimizing our weakness is . The thing that ive been asked on this as weve been doing publicity ive been asked a few times, like what lessons can be learned from steve jobs life was the thing that impressed me most and surprised me most is brent always talks about how he had amazing peripheral vision and he did and he brought everything in. Everything could have an impact on his final decision. And it was really interesting for me as a journalist to listen to it because we live in an age of short form journalism and quick answers and quick responses to everything. And you know so much theres so much sheer thats built on your exit strategy and stuff like that. And i found this ability to take in information from all over the place and turn it into an opinion, into a decision. That was something to me thats not a shortcut to success, but it was a key to how he moved the Company Forward during these amazing years. It was not about, you know, is designed taste or the particular metals, as brent said. It was coming into, or somebody who could be so stubborn and could dismiss other peoples opinions he listened and he took it all in and he turned it into his own thing. And that to me was the thing that i was most impressed by. He really have the patience to take in so much. He matured to the point where he could turn all of that into something new that felt right to him, were as calm as a young man he also had good peripheral vision but there were things that would go against what he thought, and he would dismiss them. There are two other things that stand out to me. One one is that he really was always willing to change his mind. He always seemed so adamant about this or that thats great, but the reality was he always reserved the right to change his mind. And the reason he did that is that he understood something very fundamental about all of the hightech businesses and that is what we Call Technology is really sort of a competent thing. When you take one existing technology and define something new that you can add to that, and it suddenly gives the whole thing more potential, or can take you into some realm you could never have thought of before, and its just because you added is one thing to it. Thats why his peripheral vision was so important, because he could see, its kind of like dropping a regent into a chemical and boom suddenly it is complete a phase change happens. And he understood that if you pick things well, that can happen. He used to think when he was younger you have to do that every time on a great big scale that was very very dramatic, but you saw this over and over again, especially when he got back to apple, but they add one little element, a solidstate memory at you couldnt have before, or a different kind of describe that its a small that could be a music player. But its still, its no different than any other recording medium but its adding something you do something you already have that makes it qualitatively much different. He was always looking for that. Antony thats sort of what everybody in his community does. And to me he had perfected the ability to pick the right things. I always like to ask the last question and then we are going to have a reading. My last question is this book illuminates a lot of the mystery of steve jobs that was out there before and its not out there anymore, thanks to you. But that must be one or two mysteries of steve jobs that you had to leave unsolved. And if you had to describe what those are what do you think they would be . Well theres more than one or two. And thats what thats the thing, is that i think i sort of realized as were going through this that you know this is a guy we are going to be writing about for a long time. Brent had a certain experience of him that was able to illuminate a part of his life in a way that he changed. I mean thats we tried most of all. That really the result had not been out there before. I think that theres going to be much more written about him that would get into things. For solving mysteries of things to me is really a complicated thing because i dont believe in you know like Single Source stories. Like, you know he was bipolar because of his adoption. I dont, you know, thats not a story that is satisfying in any way. There probably will emerge or and more i suspect that will tell us even more about his character and the size of his character, and thats what i think will happen over the years is that information will emerge and we will get an even more rounded portrait of him. Two things. First, i still dont get why bill it really doesnt fit his personality. I think his family was even baffled by it a little bit. It was a beautiful boat but it just seemed so weird that he would be doing that. That sort of a lighthearted bafflement. I dont know. I was also fascinated and never quite got to the bottom of the sort of spiritual side of his life. His experience in india was really like what he really learned their and then why is interest turned more towards buddhism which is low more of this world than hinduism, and have that affected his aesthetic judgments. A lot of these things i kind of know and i kind of got a feeling about but he wasnt the kind of person that would talk about this. These are very personal things, i dont think we will ever really know quite how we truly felt about all this other than it was one of the reasons why it was a gyroscope for him and kept him very consistent and kept his standards very high, and probably made them feel okay about being such a jerk sometimes, too. Because he was just so sure that he was doing things for the right reason. And that can mean is a mystery that i dont think we can answer now. Rick youve got the book and weve marked the passage at the very back. The last Memorial Service occurred at the apple campus in cupertino on october 20. Nearly 10,000 people gathered on the lawn within the ellipse formed by the campus main buildings. Every apple retail outlets around the globe had been closed for the occasion with the story was gather to watch a video of the event streamed live to the over apples virtual network. Tim cook was the first speaker. Coldplay and noraa jones does music have been featured in Apple Television advertisements that short set for the creditor to two speakers provided the highlights. Jony ive and Bill Campbell to the apple board member had been a close adviser of steves for many many years. Steve changed said campbell. Yes, he had been charismatic and passionate and brilliant, but i watch and become a great manager. He so things others couldnt see. He dismissed as arrogant a tech leaders of the world who thought we were all stupid because we couldnt use of these devices. He said we are stupid if they cant use of these devices. And then campbell went on to address this deep yet known personally. In the last seven and a half years as he became more vulnerable, he made sure that those he loved, those who were closest to him, knew it. To those people he exuded the phenomenal warmth and humor he shared. He was a true friend. Speaking later i too talked about friendship it he was my closest and most loyal friend. We worked together for 15 years, and he still laugh at the way i said but mostly i talk about work, the pleasures of work and the pleasures of working specifically with steve. Steve love ideas and love making stuff, and he treated the process of creativity with a rare and wonderful reference. He better than anyone, understood that while ideas ultimately can be so powerful, they begin as fragile barely formed thoughts so easily missed come so easily compromised, so easily just squished. This was a victory for beauty, for purity, and as he would say for giving a damn. A ceremony which anyone can watch these days on the imac or iphone or ipod or on a Samsung Galaxy or Microsoft Surface if they prefer was both sober and browsing. Look right, look left complicated you and behind you said campbell. You are it. Results counted. You other people who made it happen. It was an event that celebrated the past, and it also made clear, as steve would have, that there was much still to be done. We wont be too long said chris martin, the lead singer of coldplay as they launched into song to close the ceremony. We know steve would want you to get back to work last night spirit please join me in thanking Brent Schlender and rick tetzeli. [applause] thank you so much your such a pleasure spent that was really great. Thank you so much. So we are going to excuse them stage left while you guys exit that direction come and well see you downstairs for the book signing. Thanks everyone. [inaudible conversations] you are watching booktv on cspan2 with top nonfiction books and authors at the weekend. Booktv, television for serious readers. And about technology and Communications Issues congress is debating. One of those issues is the patriot act. The National Security agency h has used the patrioty bulk phone data records from americans. Key parts ofniv the act are due tolo i expire juneagun 1st. Firsto ty n up, represenjuqa massey of kentucky on the patriot act. Host and and now joining us on the communicators is representative Thomas Massey a j republican from kentucky, but a republican from kentucky with a tech background. What is your background, congressman . Guest i have an Electrical Engineering degree and a mechanicalkv p engineering degree from mit 29 patents, started a hightech company. Been immersed in this for the first 20 years of my career. Host and what was that hightech company, and what did9rg itrl guest i wrote a program that lets you sculpt with and print it on a 3d printer. Host isjm that Company Still in business . Bchy guest the product is still being used to design toys, cars, shoes, jewelry. Host and how does your background in Technology Help you here in4f7 congress . Guest well, sometimes it does. Sometimes people care about the facts and the numbers and sometimes things are just based on emotion and intuition in which case i get a little bit frustrated. Host well, this week, the reason we wanted to talk to you, this week the house is voting on a substitute measure for the patriot act. First of all, what are your thoughts about the patriot act what are your thoughts about the substitute . Guest well, i dont like the patriot act. I campaigned against it my first election, and its what differentiated me from six other republicans in a conservative primary where everybody was trying to run to the right. I said we need to repeal the patriot act. So, you know, im against the patriot act. It think it infringes on our Civil Liberties too much. The freedom act, which is the bill that would reauthorize the patriot act if it passes this week isw qa thineeh veneer ocu0yr reforms that surrounds the reauthorization of section 215 of the patriot act. 0xrt thecwq . n n decision that congressmen need to make is are there enough reforms to warrant reauthorizing this patriot act. And for me the answers a clear, no. Host when you talk about section 215 what does that mean . Guest so section 215 authorizes the metadata collection, you know the bulk collection ors tense myikv authorizes because vdehnr ostensibly8[ authorizesl ii because last week we found out the Second District federal court agrees with justin amash and i thatudr this patriot act never really authorized these programs that these programs are illegal. But the nsa would tell you that these programs were authorized by sections a proceeded to write a warrant that covered every american citizen. But thats what section 215 is, e it authorizes theb8nnk bulkp5 . Qg ta collection, it also has a lone 1 tkh . n provision in it that lores the threshold. ;z n zeuipi guest lowers the threshold from probable cause to reasonable4cm suspicion. Probable cause has been mi with made1v . Part of the constitution and there are 200 years of jury verdicts and Court Decisions that establish what probable cause is