Transcripts For CSPAN2 Caster 20240705

Bookstore, i am so pleased to welcome you to tonights event with Caster Semenya presenting new memoir, the race to be myself in conversation with kim mclarin. Before we begin a few housekeeping items, please silence your cell and any other Electronic Devices for the duration of the events. Please take a moment to identify the nearest exit. There are five within this hall. Caster semenya will be signing books at the table to my right following. The event a signing line form across the stage and down in this aisle to my left, to your rights. And there additional of the race to be myself available at the sales table just in the front entrance of the hall and. Lastly, i want to take a moment to thank you for. Buying books from harvard bookstore. Your support events like this and help ensure the future of this local independent bookstore as we continue our fall series. And now i am so pleased to introduce tonights speakers Caster Semenya is a professional from south africa after Sports Science at the university of northwest semenya began running competitively in 2008. In 2012 and 2016, semenya won olympic gold medal for the womens 800 meter dash. In 2009, 2011 and 2017, semenya was a gold medalist. The same events in the world athletic championships. She lives in pretoria, south africa, with her family. She is joined on stage tonight by kim, acclaimed author of women is and professor of creative writing at emerson college. I remembered one thing i forgot to note, which is that cspan is joining us tonight. So during the q a portion, please raise your hands and wait until the boom. Mike to you before answering your questions. Just to be sure recaps are everything thank you so much. Caster semenya is presenting her new memoir, the race to be myself. In this book, semenya shares the vivid and heartbreaking story of how the world came to know her name, thrust into the spotlight at just years old after winning the berlin championships in 2009, semenyas win was quickly overshadowed by criticism. Speculation about her body, and she became the center of a still raging firestorm about how gender plays out in sports. Our expectations of female athletes, the right to compete as you are told, with captivating speed, candor. The race to be myself is, the journey of semenyas years as an athlete in public eye and her life behind closed from her girl beginnings, running free in the dusts to crushing opponents, record time on the track to, accusations and falsehoods spread about her in the press or the legal trail she went through in order to compete and the humiliation she has been forced to endure publicly and privately. In the words of trevor noah, quote, cass, your story isnt just a tale of perseverance and poise its a story that makes us all interrogate our humanity and the world we build with our actions every day, an essential. We were so pleased this event here at First Baptist church tonight. Please join me in welcoming Caster Semenya and kim mclarin. To meet. Right. Its cold in here. You just im just just going to say that its cold in here. Thank you very much, elliot. Thank you all for being here. Its really a pleasure. I also want to say this is the closest i will ever get to an olympic gold medal. So. Yay so theres so much to talk about. Going to talk for about maybe half an hour and then well take questions from the audience. So please, please get your questions ready and please make you read this book. It is fantastic. Been reading it for the past two weeks. The story is really powerful so. I think i must have been asleep when all this was happening because i dont remember it, but i learned much. It made me angry. It made me fury is it made me question it made me think a lot. And so lets just right in and i guess the first question i want to ask you, caster, or tell me again, mohadi, im trying to pronounce it correctly. He is that for years and its so powerful when you say much of what has been written about me and virtually every Major International outlet in the world, i have waited a long time to tell my story for more than a decade. I have preferred to let my running do the talking. And you were quiet for so you didnt speak for so long when and you say and here when journalists ask you questions, you said, i dont want to talk about that nonsense. Why . Why for so long did you not speak . And why are you speaking now . Why are you telling this story now . Hey, everyone oh, i think more from wanting to be mature enough, you know, to know what to say. You. Because sometimes when youre young you speak out of anger, you you dont you know what to say or you dont know the meaning of what saying. But for me, i think i wanted to be more mature enough but the most important thing was to learn you know myself you know to have a better relationship with myself to understand myself in an excellent way. Nothing can shake me you know nothing can intimidate me. Nothing can make me and or put in a space where i disrespect one. But i think it was more fair learning Human Behavior how to deal with human how to treat them with respect how to communicate well with the world. But think it was more for getting mature and being knowledgeable skills. Getting to the communication channel, trust in the process but also to pause and just feel myself enjoy the groove, enjoy the ride, also enjoy the learning, even though it was not a smooth ride, it was hard. I did not enjoy, but i enjoyed, you know, being myself. I enjoy it. My space. I paused, i listened. I look out, you know, i just look from the distance so i can just understand and, you know, the perimeter of life because when you 18, sometimes youll be, you know, in a dark space where you are lost, you know, and youre lost. You lose your sense. And for me, i think it was just a matter of know, just listening distance myself from the talks and you know, just do for me, you understand and i have that relationship with myself, you know, learn how to love myself, learn how to accept myself, how to appreciate myself and respect myself in a way that even when i walk out or say, okay, im ready for the world. And ill say im ready now emotionally and yeah, im just in a happy space to say, you know what . Im going to tell the way it is. Nice yeah, i love that you say, you know, learn to love myself or to know what to know myself and. One of the things i found most powerful about your story is how, uh, how you did know who you were, right no matter the whole world trying to tell Something Different and, you know, and and whats great about the first chapter, its called god made me right. And how you grew up. Talk, talk a little bit about growing up in your your village and how you knew who you were. Your parents knew who you were everybody knew who you were. It was never question right in your in your village talk about that i think growing up in a small village i grew up in. It takes a village to raise a kids. We always say, you know, Charity Begins at home i think what my village you know, the society and my parents, you know, my my cousins, what theyve done, you know, for me, its phenomenal because they made sure that im always happy. You know, they made sure that i feel loved they made sure that you i feel welcomed and made me feel special and my childhood has been i love it. You know, it made me the person i am today. And what i can is that they made sure that i understand ubuntu means humanity if you know where im coming from and humility its important because you start understanding the importance of respect know you start respecting people but then it comes with you first. Do you respect yourself enough . Do you love yourself enough . I think thats my society gave me and for me from that day i took it with me to say, you know what if my society t love me for who i am . Why can i do it for myself and from that young age i started, you know, figuring out, you know, to live, even knowing that youre a little bit different, you know, i up you know around boys most of my cousins you know boys so i played i was the wife i grew up in the bush. You mean you hunted with the girls so. Skloot youre a good hunter. And it was beautiful because it teaches you to respond to ability. You know, you become, from a young age, you start understanding how to invest in yourself. You stand in a standing cultural play in your life, and then from that start i knew my purpose, you know, i knew, you know, what was for a reason. You know, im change, you know, my name is mahadi, the one who guides you, understand . I always number one, you know, whos always for what i feel is i it nothing. And that we have done in the bush krays have done low in the bush was what stays in the boys like whatever in vegas stays in vegas know you know they say and for me i think that was it that it did build me it created a soul that is pure a soul that is fearless, a soul that, you know, just once was best. You even someone does wrong to me not to be like that person. You know what i do . I just forgive you and say you dont know what youre doing you dont know who youre dealing with youre stand and it made me live the best life of my life you know ive enjoyed everything about childhood and i appreciate know my patterns i appreciate it everyone who has played a role to allow me to be myself if you say thats the way to begins right and thats whats so whats so great is that your parents did allow you to be yourself and i its interesting right, that its not that there any roles for men women right. Like women did this men but its like but you wanted to do this and thats fine. Nobody had any problem with it right. Because its like the next chapter is called different kind of girls. Like everybody said, this is a is a different kind of girl, but its a girl. And that was cool, right . That was no problem, its okay that you could go out in the hunt. Right. And that was that was no problem because it was all this these these these ideas of what men are supposed to do and what women are supposed to do, come the western side, not from your your ethnic your culture. Right. Thats got some i think with us it goes with what you can do our responsibilities we say 5050. Anybody can do anything. I liked, you know, gardening. We had livestock so i like, you know, looking of the cows and sheeps and stuff like that. And i liked know fixing a could have been a mechanical engineer or Something Like that you know i like electronics, you know, i like to fix a large climb the roof, fix the roof, you understand those are the things that love to do and what my parents did was like, okay, is that you . Like, is that what makes you happy . Do it will support you. Thats what i do also to my kids. I have, you know, two daughters now, four and two. What im going to do, im going to do the same thing just allow them to follow their path. Everyone has a purpose in life. My moms and dads has this i have mine. I have my vision, i have my goals but the most important thing is as a human, if you understand purpose, if you understand the you go in. Its not about, you know, the destination. You know, its about 50. Feel your purpose for me im about change. Im about to educate people about selflove, you know, about selfactualization and about selfcontrol, self management. Those are the that is a human sometimes can be a very difficult skill to do, but its very simple. But for you to just take time and control yourself take time to know yourself. It can be difficult because. We tend to signify as ourselves, you know, for our loved ones. But then we forgot, we forget to live our lives, you know, as for me, i think theres the reason why i came up. But you know what . Let me just tell my story. You know how i did it, why im successful, how i got the enlisting. It was about those things right. Do you think that that that sense purpose, that sense of knowing who you and why youre here, your name what your name means, you think that surprise people . Im getting a little out of getting a little ahead of myself. Im trying to go chronologically, but its so exciting. But like, when youre going against the iaf, right, all this stuff, do you think that surprised them that you so grounded you think they expected you to crumble . You know, yeah. I think the surprises comes with how you kill yourself, you know, how you handle the situation. Im a very strong, you know, human being. I dont get saved by criticism. I dont get shamed by just mental, you know, when people critique, i just look and say, oh, so what . You understand that of a person who love herself to an extent, where when you when you start questioning me, i do it well. Instead, i make angry to an extent away you youll have to try to destroy me. But with my situation was more like when people tried to diminish me. People to make me feel like i dont belong. I started owning. I started running the show. Then they got trapped into my show because im like, okay, if you think questioning gender, if you think saying im not enough, i belong here just like any other, im going to make sure to win them gold. I go win all the races that i love to stand and that makes you see who they really. And for me, it helped me be a better person to see things in a different way. See, you know what . Im not going to allow this thing happen. Im going to fight for what is right and want to fight for injustice. Ill go advocate for those who can voice out. Ill advocate for those who cannot fight for themselves because the day im going to be like, jesus, i myself for the young upcoming generation. Because for me, ive lived my life. I won all major titles. So i cannot, you know, seed and people doing wrong to the young ones you know so me i think the surprise was they keep on hitting me yeah i get up he 20 times i go up 35 you understand. I am kind of a person who always makes sure that when i do something, i do it in a good way. And i always say i practice it up until can get it wrong. Thats a master class, right yes. Nice. Yeah. And because you were you were still so young. I want to take you up to so. Well, lets lets start with running. What what do you love about running so youre a young girl youre growing up in this village in south africa. Yes and you loved soccer first or football. Sorry, sorry. Americans, we dont know what were calling football. Why . Why turn to running and what is it about running that you that you love . I think running me just got a lot of definition for me because when i ran. I feel free, you know, i soon out, you know. It explains everything to me. It makes me feel good. Im all in the space, you know, it takes me of this in the world and put me somewhere else where i have no worries. Ive got nothing worry about. Its just all me no crossing the line, finishing the line its not about me winning but its about me just fulfilling, you know that purpose, you know that. And it makes me feel free to an extent where i stop understanding myself. It took to a process where ill say, hes a healing process, cause even when im being told, you know, women enough, you dont belong to the sports, you a cheat, but when i do that, its like a moonwalk, you know, i feel like a Michael Jackson seal this that understand and thats what i rock the best is running and while football it makes me you question the Little Things soccer and in soccer you know i played a like im sometimes when i strike if i dont score goals i get blamed you know when im in the middle field if this supports me its a play. If i am a defender they score goals i can defend. They blame me. But i own the space. I own myself. I got to decide. Ive got to my body. I got to tell when im tired, when i dont want to do it. But soccer, youre going to push whether youre tired or not. If you position i cut me. You talk, you understand . So what when it had to come to me choosing between you know sports you know soccer and athletics and say you know what that takes because i see a future you know for me it was all about you know, portraying, you know that resilience in sports, you know, making sure that im fulfilled right. What i can say is that running fulfilled me. Nice. Im always fulfilled every day when i run, im less. But when i do, i the activities is stress. Because i think about but me alone doing this running training, im the one to be blamed. So its like i remember 2016 before the olympics i was like, i dont want to go jog and then i have this dream my opponents are passing me. So like i wake up and go run instead. So but soccer, they help me athletics. Its all about you. My. Yeah. Is there any other just curious other sport that you, that youre interested in. Oh i like boxing nice. I like hitting a lot. Thats oc noted like boxing. I did boxing, i did kick boxing. Taking boxing. But then baseball i played baseball a lot i was good, you know, it was good, you know, it was a good batter. And was good. It was a good pitcher. And i lions a lot. So i would say on the talent that human being around talented being i would say so i would say so and obviously and so talented enough to get to berlin. Lets get up to there. In 2009, the world and you know what you were saying earlier about about being the kind of person who can not let the world rattle that part. And i dont want to give away because i want you to read it, but it is. So maybe you could just talk about like what you went through within hours days of going out in running for the like its its really just awful and susceptible. But you didnt crumble, right . A lot of people would have been knocked over by that. Like how did you talk or just talk a little bit about that day as much as you wanted to give away about, you know, what they put you through and then how you found the reserves go out there and not only compete, but to win, i think go what is happening there is that its the definition of not giving up, you know, giving giving up is not in my dna and what i them out. Thats when i realized that, you know, when people see greatness. They will always try to distract or try diminish or try to destroy it. And i remember, after hearing the hits and remember, im coming from home of the african juniors around the world lead and im number one in the world, 18 years of age, you know being experienced. Ive never done, you know, in the world stage and theyve done whatever theyve done in south africa. You through my federation and stuff like that i didnt know that these agenda test i can only in the process when im in the room examining room that you know so this is this is not right then but then come into berlin weve already done the tests and of course they have results. What they wanted to do is to make sure that they distract me. They make sure that i dont feel welcome. They make sure that irritate me, make sure that i get to the final. But they did not realize that for me being, questioned does not shake me, you know, being told you enough, dont shake me. And i had it in my mind say i remember i told the president of our athletics although if he got im saying if they want me out theyre going to pull me off the track. Right because they tried this get you to voluntarily step down. Yes and no they said no yeah, if theres any one want me out, come check me out because i knew they calculated wrong. I did mathematic like money, you understand. I at them like 6000 years. No, no ways. Im not turning down that you understand. Im still young. Could be my jackpot. Know. And im like im looking, im ten down this thing if they want me out, let them put me on the track and they couldnt do that. They had to make sure that i go through tests, you know, after his miss, then they did that and i had a meeting with them. You know, the president is like, why couldnt you step down . I said, no, you coward. Are you going to fight . Are you coming from south africa . You understand . And then he he is chickening out. He said the Vice President and we sitting having a conversation. I tell i did not here for nothing. I came here to make it to the final and im going to make it with or without you. You understand . This is my choice. You a choice to step out as a counsel, right . Youre going to hang the medal on neck and, then i he shook his head and he went out and then he came. He came back and say you know what . Were going to fight and. He stepped out, you understand . You out and said, you know what, i appreciate for that . Because what you have done there, if i step down. I was never to be here today you to say i think its always about following your heart you know trust your instinct for me i knew if i step out that was is the end. And i said you, know what if it is that it would the first time and the last time i ran, id rather be than going home, you know, with the disappoint moment. You know, i flew miles away from home to come here. You tell, me, i can do nothing. No, im going to do something about it. And underestimated me. What they did say, they leaked the the results, you know, accidentally. Im like no ways thats thats not accidentally because. They did it on purpose to distract me before final and im going show them and what i saw it was fear as the day i started, you know only myself. You know what do you the boss, you run the show instead . I started running the show since that. Yeah. And for me i it it just build me to be the strong person i am truly. Because even by, you know, age of 18 you can handle amazing. Come on. Amazing. It you know. Thats right and so you to use. Yeah thats right i thats right and and one thing that that i wanted to ask you about and could you mention it in here at several points then later is how it was that none of your competitors, other women didnt stand up for you. What you know i dont know if somebody has subsequently, but like, you know, right. This is a womens battle. This a human rights battle, of course. But like none of the competitors spoke up for you. What do you think is i mean, other than competitiveness, but like this is this is bigger than the competition. This is about women standing up for women. I think, you know, as women sometimes we we get desperate because you want to win. You want to be part of, you know, want those accolades. But, you know, realizing that, you know, those leaders, they dictate everything they make. You guys hate one another. They make sure that, you know, you dont get to that success with. Yeah, because they talk about two level the spots but at the end of the day what we dont realize is that why do you want to level womens you dont want to level mens sports. I always question that and im like i always tell them to do what is fine. You may hate me, but i know youre going to come back later to apologize. And to me it dont mean nothing because youre not doing anything to build womens sports right. You you follow, you know, you fall into the traps and then you realize of the ten years of the 15 years to say, you know what . I could have done better. You know why now . And disappointed me, because when you when you tell them that, its like they feel threatened or anything, im like, but you just doing it women for women. Im not asking you for anything. Im asking you to do. And i think we fail to that to do that because we scared of rejection. We scared to be rejected into the system. We scared because sometimes if i if i, if i support whats right, it may off my meal, you know, stay and for me, its it shouldnt be all about that, shouldnt it . Should be about building women sports, making sure we get to the level that we supposed to be. Because for me, women are considered to, you know, race, bad kids, cook, be housewives, you know, stand we not distance for greatness if you look in the history of sports we were not even meant to do what makes you think men when they regulate sports they want to do it for the best interest women they doing it for the best interest of men because they dont want you to be greater than when women do good. Theres something wrong about that. When men do good phenomenon that and when you tell them that its threatening to them. And for me im not to be scared to tell them. Im going to tell them the way it is. You hate me, you like me, you do what i do. I need no validation. You know what im going to do . Is that pave out the way, make that women in sports understand the width, the need to learn how to invest in themselves, know what to fight for. Because if you look at this organization, theres no women on top who regulate thats very telling you what im saying. And when you tell the truth, yeah. You insulting them right . The cover of the times. I dont care what im going to do, i make sure that know each and every women will this. Yeah. Whether they it or not. Youre going to hear me singing. One song. It never expires. Know parks ladies are always good. Im going to be like him. Hey. Yes, yes, yes. Because its very suspicious when you have. Right. A whole group of men saying, were doing this for your own benefit. Yes. And the very fact that women have to submit to these tests and men dont discriminatory on the face of it. So all women should be opposed to it. Thats why its that other women didnt stand up for you. So anyway. All right, i could keep talking all night as you can tell, but i to be mindful of the time. Oh, yeah. And make sure we time for audience questions. So if you have any questions, well start in about one more minute and so get them ready. Theres so much great in this book. I just just think its really wonderful. One little thing this is a minor part, but funniest part for me. If i could just read this part is your parents just sound like such wonderful people. And when you know they were so proud of you after you won, obviously the championship and they understand all the craziness and they said their view of the whole thing was that white people had gone crazy and. We were not going to listen to anything they were saying. I was like, yes, good for the black. Yeah, so are they were there . How your parents like how did they deal with all of this . And what is the effect on them . They mustve been so difficult for them to see their child being through the mud like this self. Cause i think the way there was full of anger there, but i had to droid down a little bit. I had to pretend as if i was happy. I had to pretend as if id seen their eyes. The disbelief was there, but i had to kill myself to be a soldier that they raised instead i had to make sure i told them, you know, everything is good. Everything would be fine. You see me back on the track, but, you know, i had to signifies myself to do that instead. But it has been hard for them. It has been hard for them recover from it. You know, i to make sure that i kill myself to that where im humbled, make sure that i keep quiet i stay away from, you know, the public making sure that i dont do no statements and do that. So for them, they can heal. You have to honestly. Im a parent now. If kids go through that, you may never recover. Understand, it affected them of course. And for me, i appreciate them. You know for trusting me. I trust in the process, even for now when i sit with them like youre a good liar. You understand . Because nobody could see im not the same. They could see im in dark, you know, understand see . Yes. You know, theres no. Yeah, but i to kill myself and for them that was the hottest, you know, hardest time of their lives. But im happy that theyre cool now, you know, they enjoy in their lives. They, like, see me around when im not around. They always ask, when are you coming back . You know . And thats, thats, thats, thats my parents, you know, i can say they also sacrificed their happiness for me so i can be happy even though also when i saw that they were not okay, they had to compose, that they had to pull themselves a little bit. But there were times where, you know, be like, i dont come here. Im fine. Yeah, they made sure that, you know, they come, you know, drive, you know, 3 hours from the north, you know to the central just to make sure im good. But im happy that that hill. Yeah, yeah. Wonderful. So were ready to take some questions from audience. And if you could wait until the mic gets to you, we will go there. Yes, sir. Hi. I was wondering if you if you had been competing south africa before you started internationally and whether there was any different perspective on the controversy in europe as to in your home country . No doubt there has never been Something Like that surprisingly when this started happening, when this spokesperson said i came from norway instead and i well, juniors in year before that, ive been the database for the longest so but in south africa im ive been celebrated you know each and every day you my opponents they always me, you know. So for me it was just surprising to, you know, how the, you know, behaved instead, for me, i did not have problem with any other things, but how they handled the situation. Its personal now. You said its personal yeah, yeah, its a personal and its its race too, right . Of course. Right. Lets just lets just honest. Yes, it is. Because only affects asian athletes and africans. And you always ask the but why you focused on certain parts reasons but then its something you know when we debate that issue it may take. Yes thats. Why even see it took me 15 years to find the better so its still ongoing so yeah but to answer that im loved in south africa im a golden girl. Nuff said yes. Next question. Like there is there whats your whats your take on the current state of womens athletics you find the kids these days or doing things that give you hope. Do you think that youve inspired them and their behavior sort of especially know womens middle. Yeah of course theres hope they are motivated i think most of them now they they they have courage to fight for what is right. There is a lot number of women that vocal now. They know they are allies because i think this was just a wake up call to most of you know these young girls to say its very important to know. That you know you have the right to stay. I think the basic human rights in the lives on us a thing we always think. When are you a catalyst when you a you know activist thats when you know the importance of human rights. I think now that we voicing out you know we we fighting for what is right now the coming and then they have hope and they believe in themselves so they can fight for themselves. I think the most thing now for me with this book is to make sure that i indicate and make that i get each and every individual. Its not about women, but it also involves men. So you know what . You need to surely you need to start respecting women. You know, you need to start treating them with dignity. I would say, yes, theres hope and we have direction. You know, thanks to know everyone in the world showing the support to show that, you know what, these issues are very important and people need to start learning as people in the world we differ. You know, we should embrace a differences and we should love them. You know. And so, yeah, theres hope in light. Yeah, i like that. One of the themes in the book is, is, is not wrong. It is not broken different is different. Period, right. Thats just thats just i think ill being different is good as long as youre not scared of rejection. I think thats when you start understanding that, you know, you should embrace with differences does not matter where youre coming from, does not matter. But the color of your skin, your race, you know, your religion and what do you need to do is you should love your differences. You should love the person you are, embrace it. And then you will that courage to go out there and, you know, social lives because sometimes you you you you put yourself in a corner and, you dont go out there because you different or you feel like this is how i look when i go. People going to love me. No, let them love. I always say, you know what, yes, im different im a woman. Im different. Im fast, masculine, have a deep voice. So what youre saying. But if you look at that mirror, whatever reflects their put the smiling you you have on in life but if what you see on the mirror scares you youre failed you have failed even before you can walk out of your house you understand a thing as human we need to start embracing ourselves. I think thats the most important thing about book is just that love yourself for who you are. Forget about others if you love yourself, all these people out there do love you because you are not afraid. You are not scared of rejection. You get out of that house, you yourself, you. Theres this sale. You say, you know what, authenticity is the best outfit that you can rock be yourself. Be natural love the person you are, love, everything about yourself, even if are different, does not matter for me actually i love people who are different. All the know i love differences because i embrace it. You know i learned through that and it me like almost 50 years you know to to understand, you know the world why it evolves of how to, you know, accept each and every individ girl, regardless of one. And you know what . Im im living the the best love of my life after. You know what im 32 now. Thats when i feel like my life i want to stand so. Imagine ive been living in the prison. I imprisoned my self because i have been questioning myself oh that but the minute you stop questioning yourself come on life will be good beautiful beautiful office authenticity is the best outfit you can rock i love i get a t shirt that made up right. Next question. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I will not an olympic athlete, so i want to hear what its like to win. What was going on in your mind when. You cross that finish line, you know, when winning is great, but we need to start extending that. The principle of life it goes like this for. Me when, im on the track. Im an artist now and when i win im a champion. But when i walk off the track, im human. So winning does win. You an i know you a great example you know, you had, you know, living testimony of god because you have to understand all this gold that im winning, they dont really mean nothing but you as a human you win when you change lives winning define you how you treat people should be the goal thats your victory because you change your lives for me what im doing going around in the world when people say hey cause what are you good . I want to be like you. Thats winning. Thats my thats my victory. Im changing lives. And i always say, you to the kids that i coach in the programs that i run. If help you, i want you to help others thats winning in gold medals are just memorabilia is you know we going to live them but the legacy that you live that lives on is that change to say if i help you other form tell food help other folks you know thats the chain we changed the world to me ill say thats winning if you understand what im saying. The philosophy of life. Yes. Helping others cause winning, not golds, gold medals is why i can hang around my neck that day in my house every i look at them. Its a motivation but when you win in life of course thats when you change peoples lives making sure that you get these kids into school and making sure that theres someone whos having a meal every day in the state. So theres someone with in clothes someone can get to training someone who can, you know, just have that smile for me thats winning. Thats the definition of winning, changing lives. Thank you. Yeah. I think we have time for one or two more questions. Theres one there and then theres one up front. Hi. And i was i was curious about your on. What do you think . Like the major sort of barriers or obstacles facing the world of womens sports and people that sort of practice it today . Can you can you speak so i can hear and so your views what the major like barriers the world of womens sports and the people partake in it are the Major Barriers are yes i think the Major Barriers in womens sports is some of not being able to treat you know, we not treated to two men. You understand and we not involve rvd in serious you know issues when it comes to governance you know regulating the sports because of if women are involved in these decisions i dont think we would be facing this on the all these problems because now its like men how they see women, how they portray them, how they think they should look like, how they think their success should be measured. I think thats the obstacle. Women are not supposed to do things who women are supposed to be, just average. You understand . I think those are the obstacles that we face in know that if we are not involved in Decision Making we are not involved in this serious issues. Those issues are discussed by men. Ive seen the boards and then women are there for a picture just to say no, women are just involved, no. Why am i involved as additional member . Why . Why am i am not involved to make decision to say, look, we think this is right for women. Why is it men regulating that . Why is it men always the major people to do that thats the obstacle. There are no obstacles. If we can pass that and say, you know, we as women, we can decide what is right for us. As women, i think we will conquer in a stand. But if men allow us to decide what is right for us, women mainly as us women before it can be put in the table, i think it will make sense. And then we women will have the gold chain, you know, smile and instead, because it through the chamber, it goes through the boards as we women saying this is what we want for not what men want for us know to achieve, to regulate, to do anything. Youre saying that it will be easy. Its like now you see you are divided into two. Lets say we put men, we put women inside, we say, man, lets brainstorm women. What is it that you want . Men . What is it that you want you know what . The voice is going to come its going to come that say no. We think this is what should be done. We think, you know that women its not women enough. What about men . Is there any men that you you heard about in the world, you know, being questioned . That is not men enough, right there. You see catastrophe, you know, we still imprisoned. So till we as women understand our rights, we understand whats right for us without one another, we will conquer. But the minute we still ask that woman, i dont think shes woman enough will always fail because. Then the other gender will always dictate in terms of Decision Making. So for me, ill be vocal about it. I know they dont like me when i say that they dont like me. You to stand, but not offends about men that are in this, you know, building. They know what im talking about, you know, they they know what they are taught from young that women should not be doing this should another male this is you 21st century things changed women can be engineers. Women can be leaders. Women can even govern better, understand. So its a matter of time, you know, it gets into mens to say, look, we need change the wheel around. Lets allow women decide whats good for women specifically. And for me say about for you i respect but at the moment i dont think we still you know, are not being given the respect we deserve. Instead, we all educated, we all knowledge, we all have skills, we all have the right to decide, you know, for what is right for us. But till theres a line between us, we will always face this situation. I look at the chamber, you know, in the world all of these high courts, the man when women whats going on . Well a women you know and the leadership till we own that throne then probably will have that equal pay will have that you know all of these things you know but till we have 60 men in the room and then 40 women in the room its a majority you see it can never work i guess fair enough yes. I think there is one question up here, one way from the night you casters. I understand that the i gave you three options to consider to compete and one of which was to move up to the 3000. And i watch a couple of races and im an athlete and i coach and i give my hands, have someone with your speed and power and strength and how serious did you train your cardiovascular system . You moved up to the 3000 to be competitive because thats the easiest system to develop. And i was curious as to why you werent faster in a couple of three thousands i saw you because you have all the ingredients to be a good 3000 meter runner so did you not have enough training . Did you not have coaching . How come you werent better . Moving on up was what was the problem with that move to get you to be able to be competing at the international and in longer distances. Im not real question but you have to understand when it comes muscle fibers my muscles i designed for middle distance are not designed for long distance. You understand my entire career ive been doing sprints basically the only that i can do good the longest it is only 1. 5. If my 1. 5 was not good its not about not getting a good coaching. No, but that its about how the body adapts through that. Good question. The only thing that i can do good is long distance. The speed that you you run in 3000. Remember, i have to keep those eight, 68, 68. I can do that. I can only do it in two laps instead because i have the power, the even jordans that i put in to balance the speed i dont necessarily have to do it fast, but training i do when i do speed is more rhythmic. Instead for an example, when i do two hundreds, if i do six times two hundreds with the 200 meter walk for instance, if i do 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, its for me because of im a power addict. When i checked my muscle and all those things, they are not for three k, five k, ten k, still i can respond, but i can respond if i do a marathon. If i had a chance to do a marathon. I could have done a beautiful full marathon beautifully. You see, that is where it now separates . Us when is this testosterone level . The variation, you know, gives you advantage no freaking way. You dont you advantage because its just a disorder in my body is just there because im born with it but it dont give strength. Dont give me anything. If it was, i could have run easy 3ki could have ridden easy morning and i was there. Yeah. You know last year could have made it easy in the it just hard for an athlete to adapt into something that theyve never done and remember how old was i when i switched in the distance im already in my thirties is then ive been running 15 years as a middle distance runner the only thing that i can do good is either for two is quickly because of my times. In 400, the were better but in distance it may still take me ten years. I gain when that ten years you look at it, im 45. It doesnt make sense. And when i studied about the fibers and those things for me im a power athlete where when i put the distance a little distance but then more speed i it becomes easier for me when it comes to speed endurance where i do the repetitions four hundreds is i can go 58, 58, 5858 nonstop times with that five minute rest you got to stand so. It lies with how your muscles designed. I have a muscular fatigue. Big muscles. Im a big woman. Im big, let alone that. But i can do. You see, when we talk about the middle distance, im going to separate, take it out in the 400 because the sprints so i take out five. Its like a mile, two miles in all those three kilometers. Instead for me, if i were to train that, it would take me game because i studied Sports Science. I know anatomy, physiology, all those things about muscle fibers, know atp, you know, energy systems. So for me, im not designed for that i am not. And even i have goals now lie about the research that comes around low testosterone player you know im not biologically men i do not i cant because i can have that power even when you look at the times that different you look at men eat in the me this one for one i dont 154 i you still call me a man you hear him say . It doesnt make sense. So what im trying to show you is that its highly impossible for a 30 year old woman to start training for three k to day and expect the results probably. Maybe it could have came, you know, after four or five years. Its a process. I understand it because a coach as well, i coach athletes. It takes four years for one to adapt a program. I was just what, one year, my man but you get on see so im just trying to show you that its a process you know it takes four full years you know cycle for to adapt to program and must eight for me i could have run maybe into three years time a good ten kilometers i rented if they for two in paris you understand so over ten kilometer it shows that its just a process its not about quick quick results. Quick results comes with someone whos still soft. Yeah. Like francine. She is good. She has not been running like me. I havent since thousand. 2009. Where was she she . Was still a big in any you understand so people need to start being being practical when you do research there be a subject with only if theres no subject i was the only subject that that subject it was just me with the results you understand i was the one who volunteered to take the medication. They wanted me to do what nobody, you know. So when people have power and all those things, they will mess you up. So for me. Ill say, go in with myself was and then youll understand what i mean when i say it will not be easy for one woman. That 82 transition to distance, it will be easy to go back, but still even going back it was going to break my muscles. Thats why i decided to stop 200 meters focus on, you know, i just do distance, go have fun, just make the team fill up the number piece them of just to be in the weight sentences. Thats a great way to end it. Thank you so much. That was after she will be signing books after this. And thank you all for coming i know you want to Say Something kims that everything i could thank again to casper and kim for speaking with usphilip. Congratulations jens, onhe