Of the democracy project at the bipartisan policy center. This is a second thing of our day on the release of a report selecting a Vice President come advice for president ial candidates. A report of the bbcs working group. I have announced the members of the working group in the beginning and introduces them. We had some on the first panel. We have more here today with maria cino and Manny Rouvelas and Benjamin Ginsberg but we are joined by one of the countrys leading expert on the vice presidency. Professor of law at st. Louis university and the author of several books and many articles but also the author of the book that is just come out come the most recent off the press, the white house life presidency, the path to significance, mondale to biden. I recommend this book. It is worse or outside. The are many, many virtue purchf this book about the vice presidency itself, a history of the Selection Process. It might be the only book about the vice presidency that does not mention john garners famous characterization of the vice presidency, but, which i will not repeat here, but i guess you could say the book is a bucket full of warm thoughts about the vice presidency. [laughter] deep and warm thoughts. What id like to do is to talk more about the recommendations but also by the vice presidency and deeper history. Made i can begin with a jolt. We have two big questions. Joel. The role of the Vice President has changed significantly over time. Your book is a modern most important time for the vice presidency beginning with Walter Mondale. Can you give us a quick overview of how the role of the vice presidency has changed within an administration . Sure. Painting with a real broadbrush, for most of our history the vice presidency was really of legislative officer. That was only true up into the vice presidency of Alben Barkley by and large president trumans Vice President. Beginning with the nixon and Vice President in 1953, the vice presidency move into the executive branch. The vice presidency spent more time in executive branch doing political things for the president than he did presiding over the senate. And i think that was really, but the focus of the office really during that period was on president ial succession. It was having somebody who was possibly prepared to be a president ial successor and generally Vice President s were doing thing in executive branch but they were pretty peripheral to the center of the executive branch which really was the cartermondale administration that the vice presidency move into the white house physically but also becomes part of the center of the presidency. I think for the last 40 years the Six Administration since then, the Vice President in each case has been a senior president ial adviser and troubleshooter who has taken on different roles and different administrations but has taken in significant roles in each of the Six Administrations. I will come back to you about the history of the Selection Process. I want to jump into some of our working group. Maria come to floppy springs with conventions like you ran the Republican Convention in 2008. I would talk in the report about recommendation about the role out of the vp but the conventions have all sorts, they are working in the background. They are ultimately about it is going to approve the choice presumably to make the choice of the Vice President. Joel can talk about the history, how that was much more the case in the long ago history but talk to about the consideration of the convention when nominees are picking on her Vice President ial choices. Are they thinking about the convention . I know have an unusual year but in a usual year whats the role of the convention in the vp Selection Process . Its a very interesting question. The conventions play significant role although im not sure anyone realizes the significance. Weve had a little bit of experience at once the Convention NominatesVice President and president probably the most important thing we do is that thursday night sometimes thursday morning the nominee who has just been nominated assist on all the paperwork to get on every ballot. People dont know what goes into the making of a president but that is no significant i think ben and i have a little sweat from her brow figured out how were going to get someone from new york to l. A. And make sure, or sacramento and finding the correct paperwork. Theres a lot of technical stuff. I think the unique thing with regards to the Vice President ial nominee is where we are today on the republican side. I know you want to talk in general, not right now we have moved the Convention Six to seven weeks up. So it has moved a. In addition to the fact on the republican side at least as likely we may not have an actual nominee. The traditional, traditionally what happens is after the primaries, sometimes before all the primaries are over, you have a presumptive nominee. That person plays a significant role, or have staff that will play a significant role with everything from, for example, the layout, the design of the convention they want their stamp on the. They have a say in speakers, the program, the order of the convention. What the actual stages going to look like because thats the part of their persona. Whats interesting at least on the republican side is there may not be a person from a president ial campaign that will actually have a stamp. There may be two or three potential nominees. But even things as simple as hotels, hotel space. Theres a lot of stuff that goes into putting the whole thing together. This will be extremely interesting as time goes on especially for the Convention Manager which im happy to say is not me. [laughter] give the audience a sense of when is the timeframe for the typical speech after having been nominated or confirmed by the convention come and what my went to think about if we dont have the typical convention . Probably as their fighting potential nominees are fighting for everything from space in the Convention Halls to hotels and transportation, the interesting thing for the republican side, and on the democratic side also is traditionally the Vice President is nominated on wednesday night, and the president is nominated on thursday. So it will be extremely interesting if we dont have a candidate by wednesday, how the process will change. At least as long as i can remember, and bens memory may be better but at least as long as i can remember thats the order that weve always used. So this could change the whole outcome. Ben, you have had experience with this. Reflections generally and then maybe this year that might be a little different. Our recommendations will be stress tested in the way we couldve never envisioned by potentially this year. The convention is obviously something we want a great feeling of unification and camaraderie to emerge. Part of the way come at the Television Ratings i might add. And part of the way the conventions have dealt with the Television Ratings part is the recognition that roll calls are an audience killer. So a couple things. First of all the president ial roll call has become a rolling roll call since 2000 we do about a third of the states on monday, a third on tuesday, a third on wednesday, joyous celebration with a candidate goes over the top on wednesday. Roll right into the Vice President ial pick at that point. Theres been able since 88 or 92 this is theres only one candidate put in nomination. The convention can pass them by proclamation. There is a contest for the Vice President to provide you with another roll call on wednesday night that throws off the timing that maria talk about. The whole process is selecting the candidate is usually done and known, so theres not a surprise factor in the naming of the Vice President ial candidate. Should it turn out to be a contested convention and youre a campaign can do want to name your Vice President ial candidate well an event to be able to coalesce your support or infect you want to save that naming of the person for the convention to be able to amass a coalition under stress conditions . So the convention can put a real role this time. Let me turn to manny. One of the things you stress in our celebrations was about ways of thinking about picking a vp as the private sector might, or as people who are thinking about filling important jobs in other realms would be. Do you want to Say Something about the role some of that could plan for candidates, or what kind of criteria we might consider in thinking out the vb . Thanks very much, john. Let me start off by saying i really appreciate the opportunity to be a part of us. To me it was totally novel. Ive had the opportunity to watch rob bauers career from a distance and the arc of his Public Service and legal career. So to be come have a chance to be part of this was really special. I really appreciate the Bipartisan Policy Institute doing this because i think you really truly is an extraordinary Public Service. I have never, i was probably the only person on the panel who has never been part on the inside of Vice President ial Selection Process. As john has mentioned, outside on corporate boards or uncharitable boards i have been part of the process of executive recruitment and development. And i think the first thing that really struck me about this from listening to the wonderful stories by the way, im just sorry we are barred from repeating any of them, was how complex this really was, how tough initially was calm the political elements to the social media elements, defending elements, the confidentiality element. All of these things brought a level of complexity to this that far exceeds i think almost any other Selection Process that im aware of. I guess the analogy for me was a summary says a jet engine is something that is 10,000 moving piece intended one of them have to work every time. This is i think a process that is 10,000 moving pieces and if something goes wrong it can have an awful lot of very unfortunate impacts. In that regard i guess two things have struck me. First of all i think that there may be a role for some input from people who do have experience in the executive recruitment process, et cetera, in other things, particularly when things are in a hurry as they are right now youre because they do have experience in framing things come in asking questions. Even personally charged i know people are likely to fit together and work with others. So i think all of those things are useful. They have checklists and what people are in a hurry whether its an operating room or in a cockpit, i think having a checklist is occasionally useful. So one of the things that i would think about on it is either within the team having somebody with that experience as youre going through it, or assigning somebody on your internal team to go talk with executive recruiters, the headhunters. You are going to have to put up with their view that they could probably take a better president than the electorate does and thats the first thing you will hear from them. But beyond that they may have some useful input, particularly look at this timeline. I am reminded and i think at least a central lesson for me out of this exercise is i was with my granddaughter on wednesday, and i tried to explain to her what we were going to be doing today. She said i did it come we learned in school, she says, failure to plan is planning to fail last night and i said, you know, i think i kind of hits what it is. Whatever tools you can get in the planning i think is a useful thing. Let me turn back to trying one to let me ask you to know sketch out more of a longer arc of history of the Vice President ial Selection Process. We talked about the Convention Just now and the convention has always played a part, not always about to the 1830s or so, but it hasnt been democratic always, there have been primaries and weve moved into a new era where the candidate is the primary person. Can you sketch out force how is the Vice President been picked over the years and how is the change related to the change in the boards in the role of the Vice President in office . For most of our history the Convention Really played a major role in selecting a Vice President ial candidate. It was really the Party Leaders who would oftentimes get together and they would try and placate the faction of the party. They would try and engage in geographical balancing, ideological balancing or whatever. Oftentimes you would end up with tickets for the president and Vice President ial candidates really didnt agree on major issues. They did know each other. The Vice President ial candidate wasnt beholden to the president ial candidate because he wasnt the person who selected him. That started to change in 1940 when fdr basically ran for the third term and said, they did a condition of running for a third term that the delegates would accept henry wallace. There was tremendous opposition to wallace. Eleanor roosevelt went to the convention to try and put him over. Ultimately, the delegates agreed to wallace at the price of getting fdr, but wallace wasnt able to speak to the convention because there was so much animosity towards him. From 1940 really on through 1972, the process was pretty much that at the convention once the president ial nomination was resolved, people would celebrate. They would be tired, they would be hung over, and somebody would say we better pick a Vice President dick we have to announce this tomorrow morning, or this morning, and thats when they would get together. In 1976 it really changed, in part driven by the mcgovernfraser roles in the Democratic Party but also just the fact that president ial nominees were now being chosen by primaries and caucuses, which tended to accelerate the resolution of the decision for president ial nominations. Sulleys on the democratic side that you jimmy carter clinched the nomination five weeks in advance and he had this time to engage in this sort of deliberate process that is sketched out in his report to president fords nomination went tto the convention but he had also started in 76 doing a bad thing while he combat it with governor reagan. Doing vetting. Doing this vetting that took place once the nomination was secured. I think the other significant change really took place on the democratic side in 1984. Republican side in 1986. And that was announcing the Vice President ial selection before the convention. It really wasnt changed where the convention stopped being the place where you would wonder who is going to be the Vice President ial nominee and they would be focus and contests about who that might be until the decision was announced. Instead, the choice was announced before the convention. The rollout took place in the convention and then became a celebration really of the ticket principally, the leader of the ticket at the chance to attack the other side. Let me focus in on all sorts of great things in this book. I recommend it to you. We are recommending a process that takes significant amount of time. Focus on jimmy carter. Jimmy carter did something very different. It was a more extensive process and may be so extensive, that is in having this big public announcements of interviews and press conferences with the potential people afterwards. You want to Say Something more about that . When governor carter, a number of people on the first been made the point about this being the first president ial decision that virtually, really everybody in this period other than gerald ford, it was their first president ial decision. He was cognizant of that and so he invited three other candidates down two planes in georgia. He would meet with hi in private and then to have a press conference. The other 40 met with at the Democratic Convention but again they would have a press conference and he was all very transparent. This is in the immediate postwatergate period until is part of what was driving it. In 1984 Vice President mondale really tried to imitate the carter process, and it really got negative reviews here that was a feeling it was embarrassing for people who were not selected. And so since then its all been done much more privately and much more quietly. Sometimes list of people are being considered are typically become known for at least many of the people who are being considered become known so theres some discussion in the media and some sort of public a public media vetting and so forth. But the tendency or the practice has been away from this sort of public aspect of the cartermondale process. Lets turn a little bit to the vetting and turn to ben ginsberg. We have recommendation that even the core vetting process for a shortlist of people really takes eight weeks, if you do it right. Can you just give us a little sense of what the process involves . We describe the number of people, the stages of the. What you go through on a campaign to put people through the vetting process. It is a five step process basically. I think the recommendations reflect the all of us have been through it believe it should be a very small, Discrete Group of people. Probably not people with regular campaign duties. Like matt i never saw the personal reports from the candidate. The structure of the process is, step number one, you need to see what the universe is that you need to come up with a very broad list of people to consider, who might be compatible candidates. A second step is to do a Public Records Research on them. With the advent of social media, that becomes much more voluminous than it might have been. You need to be sure that the statements from the different candidates are compatible with who your candidate is. Then the results of that can be presented to the candidate for the narrowing of the list to a manageable number, which i was a historically has been five but some campaigns will go a little more or a little less. Then comes the part that will be particularly challenging for republican candidates to do this time, which is the personal vet. They truly interested in document designed to get any possible foibles and weaknesses that your candidate and a Vice President just to prepare for the inevitability of what might, that the folks on the first panel discussed. And after there is a thorough review of that personal information, financial personal, just kind of everything you can think of, then the candidate himself or herself has to make the decision on who that person would be. And there is somewhere in there a one on one conversation with someone representing the campaign as a potential Vice President ial candidates that includes the, well, is there anything else we should know conversation . And then youve got to decide. One last thing. A. B. Culvahouse was with us but had to leave us no, there is an army of lawyers that is look at the details of those are not necessarily the people, not really decamping people. They are brought in and we have made recommendations that it cant just be anyone. That are different aspects of peoples backgrounds that you pointed specialist in. The our special is certainly impacts because you have to look at the person financial records. There may be medical issues. So youll have people trained in analyzing medical problems. If the person is a lawyer, you need to vet all the cases that that candidate has been involved in. If their business to some other business with a record and a trail, you need specialist to be able to go back and redo that. Its the senator or congressman, then theres a series of votes in congress that may not be discernible to your average person until a person gets a hold of it, like matt rhoades. So thats when you need people who can understand the legislative process as well. Anita mentioned on only about the in some ways its an easier thing to bring someone into his run for president , that cycle or another cycle before this. They put themselves out there. Say why that might be helpful, but that still doesnt exempt this person from going through this very detailed process. People are offended by the public and put things out there but this is a process, the president ial candidate is not getting the same scrutiny as a nice as the Vice President ial candidate, fair enough the . Fair enough. You are running with a different candidate so the compatibility shes become very important on policy positions, and maybe the country clubs they belong to. So theres a whole range of both personal and professional things that just come under a different layer in spotlight. Maria, one part of the question i didnt ask you particular on the conventions was just in a normal situation youre looking ahead, how much of a consideration for the candidate to think how to get an unorthodox candidate for the convention . If i pick somebody who is not a typical republican, typical democrat, are the votes going to be there for me . You are somebody who may be in the position to assess the. How often do the candidates think about looking ahead to the convention and making sure their choice will be acceptable broadly to the party . I think that with regards to convention, if you have a presumptive nominee, theres been a lot of thought process going in. And if thats the nominee, then its a rather simple process to get to the convention with whoever the nominee picks. At least in my memory i dont recall it ever being a question. We talked about sarah palin to let me echo what charlie said. Nobody knew that that was coming, that was one of the best kept secrets. Clearly for so it is because the one question is what is asking, who is a sarah palin . That was maybe a little bit, she was a governor but not known, certainly not really have taken any outright stance. I will just say there was a lot of surprise, but people were china excited. The speech he gave on the floor on that wednesday night was incredible. I happened to be in one of the boxes as the Convention Manager. You walk around waiting for something to go wrong. You are very nervous the whole time. You just wanted to be over which is the sad part about it. I stood in a box and listen to her and you can hear a pin drop. It was not any noise. There was an example, she was, while she was an elected official, certainly had no notoriety whatsoever. Certainly charlie alluded to, spiral out of control. He alluded to one particular interview that certainly made tina fey famous. But theres, they will accept i think whoever the nominee puts forth, in my history, my past history. Joel, do what you Say Something more about the particle versus the candidate . Obviously in the deeper darker past there was a strong party role in the nominating was the secondary in picking the nominee. But how thats the fault and how that still exists in this election today. It used to be the Party Leaders really drove the selection. Typically the president ial nominee, i mean, in the 19th century, early part of the 20th century wasnt even at the convention. That was before i was born by the way. [laughter] it really was the party bosses that then existed who would get together. Sometimes it was a question of somebody making a deal. We need indianas votes completely indianas votes if you put Thomas Marshall on the ticket down the line if you get the nomination. That sort of arrangement. After 1940 after the president ial candidate really started taking a major role, for the time they would still be meetings at the convention with the leading party official. That candidate would meet with people and so it was a democratic process in the sense there was some consultation and deliberation and so forth. Although ultimately was the candidates decision. But i think as it has moved away from the convention began in 1976, its been a process thats been focused much more on the president ial candidate and the people around the president ial candidate. They still consult with the Party Leaders, still go to capitol hill and talk to the figures. You cant wait until the last minute and it helpful to really take time to do a good process. That being said, there might be some amendments to that in certain candidates as to how much they can get going. Some of the discussion will probably be the republican side thinking about the considerations for candidate given way dont have as normal a situation, but how can they still get going that some of the process that they are not left with a very lastminute process at the end. What can we tell them to get the most out of our recommendations even though its not a normal year . Save a tough one for last. Well, in the five step process you can do the first three deaths. You can get the big list committed to Public Records Research. You can narrow it down internally in the campaign to the people who are on your short list. I think it is really challenging for a candidate now if it is not known the persons nominee to be asking for the personal information from somebody who may be the do not buy the other campaign and who could be rivals down the road. So that part of the process, which is actually the most difficult part of the process is one that there may be some unique solutions but i havent heard them yet. Maria. I dont have a whole lot to add. Another unique situation we are in is coming in no, if several of the nominees, especially those that may have actual delegates, there may be a deal forged an announcement made ahead of time. How far ahead i dont know. It still remains to be seen, but i look at that is something i havent experienced before and it could be very interesting. Whether it matters or not i am not sure. Certainly several potential nominees actually come with delicate. May be alleged all have the last word on this in terms of history. Weve had a lot of contested conventions. Perhaps the most contested convention as the 1924 Democratic Convention and the largest number of ballot, 113 ballots i believe. I lived temporarily with the 98yearold physics professor and he rented me a remain is to tell me how you listen to that on the radio. It went on for a long time and it was great political entertainment. But i dont remember. So what happened in these contested conventions and then anything we can learn particularly from the history and then thinking about it today. What kind of considerations that were not going to pick a nominee and it dance, what is a Vice President ial selection going to look like . I think we really are on unchartered waters because the whole process is so different now. You have a long period of president ial Selection Process and a very public process that didnt exist then. You have a media world now that didnt exist back then. You know, one of the important aspects of really of the preconvention process is that it gives people a time to recalibrate their ambition and assertive look at political reality and accept the fact that somebody is the nominee and now im interested in being Vice President or am i not interested this time if you go to a convention coming you are compressing it all into a few hours were all this takes place. It really is unchartered waters and i dont think theres any good precedence that i can recall right now. So let us turn to the audience. Again, we will have microphones here. Id like you to identify yourself. Why dont we go right in the middle of the back there coming this direction. Hi, Susan Milligan from u. S. News world report. Weve been talking a lot about how the Vice President ial pick could influence voters. In the Republican Convention weather can influence the choice of the president ial nominee. So if trump says im going to pay, rossello or paul ryan, what shall happen for a different reason, will people look on the second ballot at the package . Will it become more important than the picking of the president ial candidate . We had talked about the possibility that someone will pick an advance before they are necessarily the nominee. That could happen well before the convention, at the convention and there have been historical examples. Take that as you would like. The comfort of not being with any of the current campaign. Im not sure on the second ballot you necessarily would know who the Vice President ial choice of the candidate was. I do think that the campaigns face a really interesting the strategic and tactical choice on whether your name for your Vice President ial nominee of going to be well in advance or you wait until the convention in case there is a second ballot and you need to bring over delegate. Or is it at the start of the second ballot, the mythical second outlet that the way you get the majority opposed is announcing your Vice President ial candidate is. So if it actually goes to the contested convention with multiple ballots, i dont think if at all clear what happens. One sort of model is 1976 when governor reagan announced about three weeks before the Republican Convention that his running mate would be senator Richard Schweiker whose most republican in the senate. To secure the nomination and he was hopeful that this would swing some support in the pennsylvania delegation. At the other thing that he tried to do was amend the rules, rule 16 c. Of the Republican Party and to require that every president ial candidate, i. E. President ford indicate who is nominee would leave for Vice President in advance of the president ial balloting and that was really a strategy to kind of smokeout president fords choice and the thought that if he named one person he would alienate the other 10 people who hope to be his running mate. One sort of risk of designating one person is you may adversely affect your chances of the delegates who hope youll pick somebody else. With all these different options in the rollup, i wonder if anybody selected a special episode of the apprentice. [laughter] one would say that is what we are going through right now. Okay. We will go right here in the middle. Yes. Linda cooper. I have a question that occurred to me in this discussion talking about the serious vetting of the Vice President. Could you comment on the personality of the situation we have now with president ial candidates and how that affects the vetting process for the presidency. Did you have any candidate in mind . [laughter] the personal compatibility between the nominee and the Vice President is really important, no matter which one of the five candidates you want to look at, they will all want somebody who they feel comfortable with and who they think represents their views. No matter where those candidates fall on a personality scaling your mind, you will still want somebody who is compatible. They are in the middle, the second row. I was going to go to you first, that i would get you both. I understand that nixon chose agnew because he delivered the votes from maryland. Is that correct . I was just wondering if most of the candidates would try to keep their options open and if they got down to a point where they needed a limited number of folks to put them over the top, they might be willing, if it was necessary to do it regardless of whether they have vetted that much or not if they wanted to sell it out. Nixon i think actually chose agnew not because he had turned over votes for him, but i think he viewed him as sort of the person who is most acceptable, particularly for the southern delegates. Strom thurmond had been crucial in nixon getting the nomination and in effect, nixon was looking for somebody who is perceived as a centrist. He was sort of vetoing people in the right that government on the right, like mayor lindsay and he viewed governor agnew has been more of a centrist who would be broadly accept the bowl. The rock of hurler republican had become alienated and so forth. Maybe i can get you to repeat. You didnt mention the famous than sense of the vice presidency, but you do refer to how nixon referred to spiro agnew to denigrate the office at least he at least he said he lets his insurance policy. I mean, i think nixon really grew pretty quickly to detest agnew. I think he started out impressed with him and over time he would complain that agnew wants to have these meetings with me and thats just not the way it works. The president doesnt meet with the Vice President and thats not part of the job. He should go out there and give the speeches and so forth. When they were real lack did in 1972, agnew really saw himself and he was the leader in the polls for 1976. He saw himself as venus here is president ial candidate and nixon wouldnt give him anything to do. Finally he said why dont you be the chair of the commission to plan the bicentennial celebration and agnew didnt think that was really what he had in mind. Of course he was forced out of office soon after that. The transformation to the office that we have now between say 73 when agnew was totally marginalized and 77 when Walter Mondale could walk into the oval office anytime he wanted was really remarkable. After going through the process, not knowing are forecasting that the situation is going to be. Its interesting what thinking i was ahead to election, but the reality is maybe on the republican side the general election will come second and they really will try to get the nomination of the delicate, which was perhaps that the candidates in a situation of who they might be looking up for Vice President would be maybe a different situation, calculations and who that person would be in a general election anyway. Grave. Well go to you next few good morning. My name is justin. I have a question for the panel particularly their political plans if they were to be advising candidates on both sides in their selection of their Vice President currently. And looking under really more of how my day be looking not certain states that they might be interested in winning. Theres a question question earlier regarding women. You know, how would you if you were advising the candidate on some things to keep in mind and said things they might be looking out for in select do not. Even some privatesector experience would be interesting to hear about. At a specific or as general as you want. I think what it started than talk about, which is if youre going to be a serious president ial candidate and want to win, what you need to project as you are going to be a good president. And i think there are people out there who on both sides would send the message that im really serious about being president. On the democratic side, i think there are several folks i can do that and that transcend just derelict a row utility. Ive been really struck in the last few elections that the president did not pick joe biden in order to litter the state of delaware. [laughter] but i think he did something quite construct event quite useful in terms of governance for doing that. I hope if she is the nominee, the secretary clinton would do the same and i think on the republican side there are those people. Without the names you can react to a few things i know we talked about. I know theres a lot more to say. The group was unanimous in saying the person has to be able to be a president , someone that can step into the role. Some of the pitfalls in the past has been candidates who think they are behind and have to take a shot, do anything to shake up the race or perhaps political consideration of other sorts. But another one out there that might be some thing folks on Hillary Clinton is experienced candidates sometimes think maybe i can pick and an experienced Vice President and people think it balances due. Will you now, if that person has the experience and her young thats great, but if youre looking for the youth developed a serious person, that is not going for someone who can step into the role. There are pitfalls for candidates and their situations. Let me jump back in the specific. Nobodys listening to me except you anyhow. I think senator of virginia would be an outstanding Vice President ial pick. Hes the only person around who has been a mayor. He has been a governor. Hes now a senator. Hes a very serious person. Hes been a chairman to the Democratic National committee and has the opportunity to look at people. Certainly he is not the only one that he would be a sensational pick in secretary clinton was interested. I think you really want to look for somebody, first and foremost, who is president ial who is really the stature that people could perceive him or her sitting in the oval office. You need somebody president ial not simply because of succession, but even more right now you need them because if you dont have a Vice President who can do this sort of things the last Vice President s have done, youre giving up a huge governing asset. But the focus on governance in choosing a running mate also has political significance because you are sending a message about how you make decisions, what you value, what kind of the decisionmaker you are. The other thing that is important to look too in addition to some unpresident ial, are they Vice President ial . A needed dad made the point in the first panel about how difficult it is for somebody who has been expressing their own views to step into a role of subordinate. If you imagine somebody like joe biden who senator for 36 years with his own boss, chairman of two major committees in all the sudden is the number two person and he has to adjust to the role. The person who is Vice President has to be a lot to be a leader, but also be able to follow and be comfortable in that role. Its an extremely difficult position as the Vice President ial candidate, but also that the Vice President. We have time for one last question and we are going to go here. Things. Peter from the estonian embassy. Im trying to put myself in the shoes of people who might be asked or be on the shortlist for Vice President s, looking back at what will be a president ial campaign. In the history of campaigns, but has been Vice President ial candidates and campaigns which look like they are losing pretty early on. Is it a good career move or bad career move . Its a terrific question. It was the discussion about 1972 earlier. One of the problems George Mcgovern had was he asked a number of people to be his running mate and they all turned it down. Many were his Close Friends who had served with in the senate. For a variety of reasons they didnt want to be on the ticket. So if you think about Vice President s and Vice President ial candidates have done pretty well in the later careers, representative brien is now the speaker of the house. Edwin muskie lost in 68. He became secretary of state. You have able people have opportunities. But i think a calculation about how likely the ticket is to be successful and also how you feel about working with a person is very much of a personal relationship in the last six Vice President s have been able to achieve very good personal relationships with the president. But if the personal relationship goes south early on, its not going to be a very fun four years for either principle. The people have to really work at it as well. I think you have to take that into account in deciding whether you want to put your name forward. With that, we are going to wrap up today. We want to thank the members of our working group youre selecting for Vice President s and Vice President ial candidates is advice out there now as well as the media covering it. We think the group, thank you the audience will close the session here. [applause] [inaudible conversations] madam secretary, 72 of our delicate the to the next president of the next president of the united states. [cheers and applause] the notion that you are going to give over control of the defense of your industry requires that you give up an awful lot of information that a lot of these companies do not want to give up. There was a bill passed last fall in the senate after years that now has private industry willing to pass on information to the government, but only after they have sanitized it. Securities and Exchange Commission officials testified in capitol hill thursday in what they are doing to protect investors while maintaining fair and free markets. The House Financial Services subcommittee on Capital Markets also discussed the commissions rulemaking process is the dog sprang financial continues to be implemented. This is just over two