Transcripts For CSPAN2 Wild Ride 20170716

And huber talks about the same system. They talk about in termsof unused inventory. And even their offices, you go in and you get a foot massage and then they give you fresh combo eucha and theres a sink everywhere and its lovely and you go to uber and it looks like a bond movie or did the death star and you think id better not stand on top of the stairs because its going to fall into a shark. And then the room which arianna, the peace room was called the war room and you get up there at uber, its sort of like soho where youre a little scared because youre not sure which way to turn, thats true. What is the difference between them . Because the war room is a perfect example. When i was let in there for the first time i was like, youve got to be kidding. I said i think you are 12yearold boys but okay. That was different. What was the mentality, the difference between those two . The funny thing you the way you introduce that is that zimmer wasnt even the ceo. Also real nice. But we all go with what weve got. And i think lyft, thats who they are and uber is who they are. Thats the difference of uber, the obnoxious nest thats pushing around regulators, the ugly statements that he would make and he would even talk about on the book, he would pop off thestatement that was usually somewhere between appalling and disgusting at anyone point. I think that this is who travis is. Its not a corporate strategy. But im curious if you think it has incentives that made them successful and the reason theyve been able to blare all the way through city through city. Theres no question in my mind although its hard to separate the bravado or the attitude from the actions because again, its worth pointing out that lyft was the first to do a damn the regulators strategy, that we dont think these taxi rules apply to us and were going to do it anyway and uber, travis wrote a white paper saying this is illegal and were concerned about that. And they said well, it may be illegal but we better do it quickly or were going to get beaten by these guys but what youre talking about is a sort of lead with their chin. They said were not going to be a little sneaky about the regulatory issue. Were going to be completely transparent that we dont care. And were going to go in and start operating and when they come for us, we say we think youre illegal, were going to fight with them and were going to get drivers and riders to be on our side and we forget in 2017 there was this moment when uber was beloved. Headlines saying that was a great thing, how much people loved their uber rides. But it was sneaky but sneaky seems to be their favorite move on lots of things, not just gray bowling but it goes back in history. One sneaky move which is a word they used the call it, fiber. Im blanking on it to anyway, the dual kind of sneaky. It was operation blog where they gave people burner phones, i know burner from the wire. But it was anonymous phones to call for rides and then cancel them or take the ride and say you want to be driving for uber. I interviewed this guy who works at red swoosh who told me that travis, 20 years ago would have a whiteboard or whatever the version of the whiteboard was then and he would write a with big numbers on the whiteboard and disguised sent to me i go by there and the number, he just wrote a large number for people who would be walking by to see the large number. It was shifty. Is that at the heart of the company, the shifting us . Every two weeks you think its one thing after the next. One persons shifty is another persons pushing the envelope. I think gray bowling is being investigated so its not shifty, its criminal. What do you think that does to accompany . Is that something that can get you successful to a certain point but not fully correct . If by not fully you may not profitable, yes and if you mean not profitable you mean rings a storm down on you that could end up having realramifications on the company, then write. I want to know when you were doing the restrictions of why do it, why continue . Because it doesnt really work. It doesnt ultimately work, you get found out and now you sort of have a target on your back because people just assume that youre going to lie to them, assume youre going to be aggressive. You think its a good strategy and we will get to where theyre going next which when you were doing the research for this book it seems like its a never ending theme of that company, correct . Its not the only theme, its not like, i certainly dont, they didnt project to me or i didnt have the daily feeling this is a criminal enterprise. Ive had people say dont you think its a Mafia Organization and i did, i didnt have that feeling. Some of the things, i know were going to get to this, of the things i didnt know about. I didnt uncover but number one along the way i saw plenty of good and if it were a, i didnt think it was a criminal enterprise. As far as criminal enterprises, its not like its the gandhi family. When they have a choice to do something a little sneaky possibly or the right way, it seems its a shift that they do. All im saying is theres a probably good book on the body family and. Thats the sopranos but go ahead. And others, and i see my role as a journalist to write about the gandhi family and to tell the story. And maybe we could have a conversation about the notion of passing judgment. I think my style is to present and analyze and tell it in an entertaining way. So when you did that, you still can come to conclusions, correct. I dont disagree with that. What conclusion did you come to, this is what made it the way it is . Its not like any company weve covered, you and i can both agree. You would never think facebook behaves like this although theyve done plenty of shifty things but its not the same. Im thinking of all the companies you covered, the only Close Company i can think of is mikes list and even he looks like a little kitten comparatively. I promise you, i once had this conversation with Mark Zuckerberg and i saw it like the lightning quick wit in the intelligence when someone else was working about the start of the story and i said were just starting a feature story and i think were really concerned about some of these russian billionaires who are oligarchs who are involved in killing people, being investors in facebook and without batting an eye he sent to me im glad youre not writing the story. And so i dont think, let me raise that. I think there is good people doing good work and doing goodcorporate work. And i think that i dont think that takes away from your question and the things that youre talking about. I think its possible to do what theyre doing without being shifty and the example would be that lyft is doing. A separate conversation about is this real business but i also think the answer is yes. I cant prove it. No one else can either. So theres good people, but its still this week has shown that this rain down on the good people who are sucked into the middle of incredible misbehavior and i want to get to the financial part of the two. How you think about the business point or all these businesses but talk a little bit about, i told you i was going toask a question but in this book , nowhere, do we have any really small amounts of, theres some talk but this and that, nowhere any of this stuff does it lead, same thing in the brownstone book. If it didnt exist, thats not all that matters but it whats causing all the problems, this explosion by a very brave woman. Who was alleging sexism, Sexual Harassment and essentially just corporate malfeasance. I think its more so than anything else is how they run the company like it was an episode of game of thrones essentially, that was a constant, managers were untrained, there were no one reports things, no hr systems and numbers excuse the whole time to me and others is that weve been building and we had no ability to change, to do this which to me is sort of i didnt clean my bedroom excuse. Are you kidding me, you cant put in a normal system, lighted, im going to say there was a little section of a harassment problem going on there, sexism problem, a party problem, was a sort of careless behavior towards employees and drivers and literally, its pervasive through this company, its hard to miss. First of all, i have a whole section that was strengthened after the initial manuscript and im very book. It was strengthened by my two editors who are women and where i discussed Susan Fowlers allegations which happened and came out after i turned in my manuscript and the subject of women in uber more generally. It had been raised for years, the safety of women passengers. And i addressed this in a, you can judge me on if i addressed itenough. I understand that. And secondly, so to the extent that because this is an important element of the story, shame on me. Shame on me that i didnt get it adequately. You also mentioned dave shermans book. I was prepared for that. On roger ailes where you wrote this paving expose and nowhere in there did he mention the rampant allegations of Sexual Harassment. It wasnt rampant allegations new score or at fox news, it was, we later learned multiple settlements Sexual Harassment which had been, the terms of which had been both people can talk about it so this is dave shermans report and i, my issue is that you couldnt, you couldnt cover fox news without knowing his reputation. Did you know about this stuff and not write about it or just give nothing or is it an issue of covering telecom valley, people turn a blind eye to some serious things . Which you referenced, about venture capitalist go care about getting the payoff essentially. I interviewed women on the record in the book, i interviewed off the record for this book and is subject didnt, so if youre asking me did i not know, i didnt know and so if you want to say why didnt you, why were you looking harder, why didnt you push harder on it, fine. I spoke to women who complain to me about how they were treated by their managers, who were jerks essentially or whatever. I talked to women who described the work occasions, you know how they would send teams to places to launch the city and would all go out partying and who told me about it, as being one of the things they loved the most at uber so all i can do is tell you what my reporting, what they told you. And i could have done more and i could have done better. Were you aware of the memo we published last week from travis, the party no . Know, in the back of my brain i remember that before i ever started working, you published a memo that travis wrote this, he felt compelled for some reason to write a memo to his employees before an offsite in miami and giving them ground rules on how they should behave at the meeting and i think it included Something Like dont have sex with someone whos your subordinate. Dont vomit because it cost 200, dont throw cakes off of roofs which is like what . Okay. And then dont have sex with someone in your direct report but if you decide to have sex which three of you do, make sure everybodys consensual which okay, good advice but for a frat guy, not a ceo of the company but at the last part which i thought was the crowning glory of this particular memo was i cant have sex with anyone because im the ceo and then asked, fnl which is five my life and hes lamenting not being able to have sex with his employees which i think is notappropriate for a ceo, i know extract about these things but. Im saying, that memo was famous within uber. We are such bowlers. Tell me if i have my straight, youre getting therapy in 2014. Earlier than that. It was after the miami thing, i dont remember but. What happens this gets overlooked. Im not going to give you the blame necessarily but it does get overlooked in brad its not there, engage book is not there. I want you to talk about it bigger issue around Silicon Valley even you but when you interviewed or men, i dont think its women. If anyone is going to bring up unsolicited when i say only what i need to know you would think it would be women. And i think so, i cant do any better than answer your questions as directly as i can. I think when you read my book, you will get a sense of immature grownup running and a company and so i dont, i think i got that. And after the, again, after i turned in the manuscript and that video of him berating the driver, that became a viral sensation and he said he needed to grow up. I pointed out toward the end of the book this was a man who had recently entered his decade same. So by the way, i also wrote on uber that the driver recognized he had the ceo of uber in the back seat and started to give him the business. He said you dont understand, i cant get my emails answered on that and they did an email, he said im going to follow up with you and very quickly late at night he copied me on email and i later said did you do that because i was in the backseat and of course not, i do that all the time. Absolutely. What do you think gets to the culture, that theres sex in every company we cover but nothing of this magnitude and one thing things didnt really change at uber because last week we wrote about this india thing which pushed it over the edge. For those who dont know, they got the medical records or a rape victim of a uber customer and were essentially questioning her story, blaming it on theceo. Being there competitor in india. And carrying them around for a year, medical records in a criminal case and im saying, doesnt change because that was literally last week they were doing this and they lied to the New York Times about it when they asked about it and the New York Times didnt write about it. Uber is in a situation where on an almost daily basis recently things happen you couldnt make up if you try. Can you imagine a meeting with the employees for the Board Members to explain to them what theyre going to do next and this revered financier david bodman making a sexist comment at area on the huffingtons approach at that meeting. Spending all this time with the company and saying there are good people there, do you imagine these recommendations will be taken seriously . Given the scrutiny that there under its going to be hard for them not to take them seriously so they will institute, you know, when you read through the older recommendations, there like operatingmanuals for how you are supposed to do human resources. Theyll institute those changes and i dont know. I think they have a shot taking the stick because i dont believe that every person is wrong and im not making. I get back, thats what i mean. Im not making excuses for the people there are. You believe this culture, a lot of times you know its in the dna of their founders or immediate creators and they dont change. Ill make an observation, when i said i think apple was 35 years old when i did my book on them and it was a huge education for me because i had always discounted the notion of corporate culture, i thought it was one of those topics that people dont know and we dont talk about and i said i was completely wrong, at apple the culture was everything and it was a three decades plus old company. Huber is a six or sevenyearold company and the culture isnt as ingrained area as i said, id like to be optimistic for them. You think no chance, i think maybe a chance. Im A Maya Angelou and and or quote, if someone shows you there face for the first time, believe them. I think companies are what they are born like and every Single Company has an element of that. Lets get the questions from people, im sure you have lots and the financials, losing a ton of money, billions and billions, a lot of people to try to compare themselves to uber, why amazon lost a lot of a lot of money and they became what they are today. Amazon dont warehouses, they dont very different systems. Amazon didnt have any rivals, they didnt if you think about it. They have small rivals but they never really got in the game. There was never a lyft version of an amazon competitor. There were quite a few and they were bad, they failed. But they dont modes everywhere then went so now they are benefiting from those moats. Losing this much money, i think you said, can you explain because thats something that i feelis not the case. Even with what they released, we dont have a clear view of the finances and its fairly opaque so what we know is that for a while they were losing a ton of money in china and they stop, losing money trying to build in india, theyre losing a ton of money by investing heavily in their very own version of autonomous people which we talked early could end up ending in tears for them but thats expensive. That brings in zero revenue so the question is does the business itself have a shot at entering inmoney , there was has been evidence of various stages of their development have the possibility to bring in a lot of money and you know, lets just take the united states, uber and lyft are in this arms race, you can also envision a scenario where not by collusion but because they eithers themselves into exhaustion that they both pull off these subsidies and they make money but the flipside of that is already we go around town and we see drivers who have the uber on the window because its interchangeable for them. I guess its easier for them. The biggest thing was theirbrand. That mode that they become a verdict, im going to uber there and it was people easy to explain around the world for them to do it. And they been severely tarnished. But i dont have, they havethe data definitives, i dont. Im not saying. They have said that. The data that would be interesting to know is what Consumer Behavior is like. If theres anecdotally, theres places where people just uber. For anecdotally im not going to take it anymore. Thats more in our circle, that the more prevailing thing, i wont do that theres people out there that do area. My mom doesnt uber. Shes not very technical. But shes aware. Its interesting. So, what in any case. This is a lot of question and we will get to q a. You have that idea of this brand is the most important thing and its not just way mode, is not this great bowling. There is this uber where they are trying to screw people going to theprotest. It feels very troubled. I forgot he insulted someone who was disabled, that was months ago. And it seems like can they sustain this much. Black brands can rejuvenate if they do this right. You need the right people and right money and the right strategy. Im not telling you anything you dont know. Was the ceo, who doesnt have to be . Doing for a cmo or cfo, head of engineering . Weve gotten some of these people fired. Ahead of some product, head of business, hes gone. If theres ever a conversation id like to be a fly on the wall on the conversation with the top prospect who says explain one thing to me. Who do i report to . Do i report to Travis Kalanick but hes not here, when is he coming back . I dont know. What are my specific responsibilities . Theyre going to be ds. How do iknow thats not going to change when travis comes back wes and mark. Were a week board and weve never stopped in before, were complicit in all this activity, please, theres a person you want once to bc eo not coo. Who would you pick, two names. I mean,. We just added that to his portfolio. You got one . We just added it to his portfolio but go ahead. Added to his portfolio running uber, thats a great idea. Two people who, one of the names has been floated, former air appearance at disney. Staggs area hes the guy was a business guy whos run a complicated operation and done a very diplomatic guy, you can see him on stage. Hesthe kind of person who would do it and work. In what sense. Know he doesnt want it . Good. No thank you. Maybe he has enough money in the vault, i dont know. But again, im talking about types of people, type of person would beperfect in this situation if you wanted to do it would be alan mullally. The former board who had been ceo. Of ocular. He gets complex organizations, he knows how to wrap things up in a bow and i dont know how old he is but he doesnt need the recognition. And he really can rock a sweater vest. A question from the audience, come on out. Have it right here. Go for it. Karen, thanks for your time as well and for bringing ruth, always another plus. Kimberly is referring to my wife in the front row. Is my better half and i need him. My question is adam, you have this amazing opportunity to write about inside apple and now inside uber. What are, whats one similarity or one difference of these two companies with pretty unique ceos . Superficially theres a lot of similarities. You know, jobs writing himself and breaking the rules. Not so large as uber has been, that was part of his persona and you know, i wrote a thing this morning that travis told me once i said how do you like running a big company and it was a telling response, he said i like to think of it as small pieces and i reflected in the book and again that i dont think he had grasped that that wasnt acceptable. Hes running a big company. But to in fairness, from a storytelling perspective, that was one of johns mind. He said i like to think that apples the largest up in the world. You made it work. He was steve jobs. It was not a small company, it had a ton of professional processes and you would hear these stories about people being screened at steve jobs and being treated horribly but theres no, thats not against the rules, thats not against the law. I mean, screaming people because you think they suck. Thats where the comparisons end. I would not compare them in any way. Im talking about lets say in aspirational tones. In ubers aspiration. Thats fine. Sorry, jobs was a great ceo. So i should probably preface this by saying that i havent read take a while but id like to know from the both of you what you think is the sort of realistic and practical future of uber. Given a lot of the shortcomings that we talked about amongst leadership, management and culture. Ive , i think ive picked it back, youve got a company, im going to give you the cup half full because carol will give you the capacity which im fine with, i could give you that to is the company with Global Operations and sort of, im reaching for a business clichc which is mind share with consumers. With riders. And so huge problem including these legal problems which are worse than a Public Perception problems, the reputation being tarnished and if you can get past that, if they can get past that, and you ring in the right leadership to run that little operation, that would be the cup half full future. I would say the Sexual Harassment stuff, sadly i would say they will probably get over that if they do the right thing. But they shouldnt, they should not and i think theres a lawsuit thats really problematic and i think the criminal investigation is problematic. The fact that they have been management staff and how do you attract good people there . Youre not going to get a Sheryl Sandberg to show up, Something Like that is never going to do that. You have all these christian staff, even drivers but somebody with a logistically complex company that has this mind share. I think that they are going to get sold. Two . They cant compete as a self driving area, they cant do it. Or not the most brilliant. Theres a players and be players and now they dont have the eight players anymore and they managed to create one of the most toxic cultures ive ever seen. So its just like, i dont know who could go in and you have this ceo floating around saying i really need to, this drives me not. Uber needs to get to uber 2. 0 and travis needs to get to travis 2. 0. Its all going to rest on his shoulders and that mentality, its so Silicon Valley and i think youre someone who created most of the damage not taking responsibility for it, not having any kind of sorry, theres not a real sorry and i dont want, you dont need to prostrate yourself but david monaghan, everything in that joke i think the mets let something slightly different when he said he was having discussions, theres more discussion with more women around the table but its a bad joke, it comes at the wrong time but he quit immediately. He did the right thing, he knew he was going to be a distraction for that company. He did the right thing, he did one single joke and its a serious disturbing thing including the india stuff, you can read aboutthat. He was probably delighted to be done with it. Bonner. He probably was. Somebody called me and said it was a plot by him to get off the board. I said really, to look like a hassle, i dont think so. Right here, theres this thing back here. Hi. I was expecting that you guys would talk tonight about a topic like oh, were in the job market versus an impact on urban life. Huber in the economy, hubers impact on our social life but you chose not to talk about those things and im not asking you now. Can. Im mostly curious why you dont find those topics important and interesting enough to discuss. I do. And i cant tell exactly which direction youre hoping im going to go or which direction the people who are clapping are going to go. I spent quite a bit of time thinking about the impact on the economy. Its part of my research for the book, i became a uber driver because i wanted to experience what it was like. I didnt do it for a longtime and i did it long enough to learn quickly that i enjoy my job a lot more than being a uber driver. What is the impact of, its not just uber but its be into the, all these gate economies. And its helping you cover a whole lot but what is the, i think its very complicated. On the one hand uber and air b and b didnt invent piecemeal work. They didnt invent contracts. Sort of, i dont know, made it more efficient by this smart phone or web being the juror of people and things for that piece work. Ill just tell you, because we dont have a ton of time, my observation in talking to a ton of driversand briefly experiencing it myself is that out of , in one breath, uber drivers will tell you the many reasons why they hate being uber drivers and in the next breath will tell you why they are uber drivers which is they are hard up for cash and for many, many reasons they like the that uber gives them the ability to get quickly and do it when they want to do it. Itches no trivial thing but like i said, they will give you the same exact argument, they will give you the same conversation those two arguments. What about their impact on the city, that self driving cars is what youre talking about. Are you talking about all the clutter of cars on of uber and lift cars on the road . I think they are different subjects. Im not one of these futurists who sees how self driving cars are going to work quicker. When you talk to these people they tell you its a win, not an answer and it will happen, it is safe, its going to take consumer acceptance and regulation to get there and that may take quite a bit of time and you know, i think its funny. Its interesting, ill makean observation, uber is , uber and lyft are cluttering the street but lyft is taking cars off the road which is a wonderful thing. You said a quote that travis said about theforces. Yes, this its this classic, he was asked by china , travis was asked do you envision a future where people dont drive cars and he said oh no, people still ride horses for leisure even though that was once our primary form of transportation and i can envision the day when will take their cars out for aride on a beautiful sunny afternoon. And then the quality is that drivers, he got into trouble which is the flipside of that. Where he called taxi . Where he said conduit in a car. You wanted to get rid of all drivers. He said they my business will work when i get rid of all drivers. But the crowd and his time too. It was a interesting observation. He was telling the truth and was brutally honest about what a lot of these people dont say is there hoping to get rid of all humans in the process of driving. Right, the logical conclusion of the billions of dollars that all of these companies are spending on automation is the elimination of human jobs which is the same conclusion of all the other examples of automation that is happening in the economy. And he sent out loud. He said in the most interesting way. Buddies correct. Or less. Two more questions . I have a question that followson your conversation about the culture. I wonder whether its if theres any connection you think from your research in a culture where theres sexism and discrimination and you know, drivers incomes, there was a story in new york about i guess theyre being sued. They didnt pay them enough. That kind of culture, connected to the fact that the companys mission is to disrupt the tax industry and as you are talking about, eventually possibly take out the transportation sector worldwide. I would imagine that working in that environment would be very different from any other job the cause you are dealing with all these large humanistic moral questions as you go about your daily task so is that part of the culture . Is that something people talk about or are there connections here . I understand the impactthe business is having. I would think that would be something employees at various levels and particularly at top levels of all levels with think about or is it not something they think about . As im sure youve heard, it absolutely is something that they talk about and to give you a window into the mindset of the company, it was Travis Kalanick and the people around them a badge of honor. Im paraphrasing him now, he said taxi commissions and taxi owners are corrupt. We are doing something about that corruption. They want to keep the number of taxis available to consumers down and to keep prices high and were going to have as many cars on the road as possible and drive prices low for consumers. That is, that was the founding mentality of the company. And they werent shy about that. What about the second question, the idea that they may disrupt, maybe thats yesterdays bite. They dont talk about that anymore uber, the idea of getting rid of humans in the driving process. The way that might affect the corporate culture, its not surprising theres rampant sexism in a company that has essentially antihumanistic values. Im a humanist. I think that what tara and i do and what you do is going to be the last industry to be disrupted by robots. Can you imagine a robot doing this . They actually are making them. No. They are. Thats not going to. Ill be dead, i dont care. Dont you think . Both of us. Yeah, we will be dead. We dont care. Go right ahead. Hell do it, zuckerberg. Thats a great question. Last question . Thank you so much for coming. My question is what is your advice for founders aside from not writing these memos and not going to brothels with your employees. We didnt get to the brothel, that part of the narrative x 20 away from this and to make sure the people youre bringing on and body the values that will get you to the next stage and not let you be dragged down, i know there are good people at uber. Thats a great thing. People change, zuckerberg has changed, some of these other ceos have changed, talk about that. The founder, what happens to the journey of the founder. Theres little evidence that gates changed after he became a philanthropist. Gates hasnever changed. Zuckerberg room which is different from change. Steve jobs didnt change, he also grew tremendously but you know, its a great question. I structured my alphabet all around lessons that you can learn from apple both for entrepreneurs which jobs consider themselves to be one and the corporateexecutives. And so. What about tips, from uber. Youve interviewed hundreds of founders, what do you think bt assets are more things to avoid, obviously not running from there but think about some assets. The one that, what uber did well from the outset was a poor incentive of what apple did well which was to be laser focus on as few things as possible and when uber was thriving and growing they were focusing on one thing which is making over huge and jobs sort of took this to an art form. They were going to say no to more things than they were going to say yes to and only going to products could fit on a conference table. That, we can have a long conversation about the fact that over and its over at uber. Theyre investigating flying cars and their canceling kittens in barbecue and helicopters. And so i mean, i think great doors and great Business Executives tried to focus on a few things as possible, that was my learning writing about. And i think some of the people at what advice would you give uber. I hate to do that but that would be the obvious advice. Uber lyft is focusing right now. What would you do if you were ceo . X no way. Well, you said, you kind of done what im saying i wont do you youve done it a little, you run a company, you sold the company but you kept being a journalist the entire time and i said no over the years, you would be interested in doing this and im blessed that there isnt anything else that i want to be doing. I get to do a lot of different things, i like being a journalist, i dont want to be the ceo, are you kidding me . Either of us, and so what do you imagine it will be around in 10 years . You just predicted that google is going to buy them which i think is very clever so i would never counter you. You can have your own opinion. Im frequently wrong but never in doubt. Im frequently wrong. And 10 years is a ridiculously longtime. What i mean is can you be a pioneer and not necessarily survive. Sure. But you think not. Im optimistic because i have joy and worked in my heart, not because im making a prediction. And i do. By the way, can you do me a huge favor . Ive always wanted to get you. Afterwards, will you sign this . I know that, im very old. Ive got that. Thank you. And so are you because you and i were young at the same time. Before the program is up, i know were running late and is now an informed addition to ask all our students the following question, what is your second idea to make the world a better place, dont be snarky. I wish, by the way, they give you 60 minutes. You got 60 seconds, dont. Im going to get there because its short. I wish i could be snarky. I try really hard to do readings, say please and thank you and to be grateful for all theblessings i have and i think everyone shot for that goal, the world would be a betterplace. Fantastic answer. All right, lets give a big round of applause to have lubinski, theres a lot in this book, its a fascinating history of uber if you want to find out where they got where they got. And thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Its a wild ride inside ubers quest for world domination, great cover. Its fantastic. You will be signing this book wild ride down the hall and copies are for sale and hes ready to write personal notes to all of you, i know. These take your time with him and ask him for whatever you want. Hes one of my favorite journalists, thank you. Resisting trumps shock politics and winning the world we need. Shes interviewed by medea benjamin, cofounder of contact. I wonder if youcould tell us about how the state was set. I see this is very much a bipartisan process. The table that was set for trial. And it isnt just about politics, its about media, news coverage, the table is set for him in so many ways that all he needs to do is show up because it was this, we were already treating elections like reality tv shows. We already have a media landscape that was much more interested in interpersonal drama between candidates than in indepth coverage of the issues. We already had democrats, a Democrat Using the tools of corporate branding. Themselves, president obama was a fantastic brand. He used incredibly cutting edge marketing techniques and a lot of us felt there was , that behind the things that he was leading this the change and transformation that there wasnt enough change and that also help set the table for trust. Watch after words on cspan2s book tv