Was there ever an argument, a significant argument thats of german as opposed to the japanese where there was no evidence as such÷u÷u÷u÷u. Targeting in total, 10,905 ethnic germans were intoxicated andym five states during the wa. Among them were who stripped of the u. S. Citizenship needed somewhere to go following the completion of÷u their terms. The so, yes, there was. In each of these cases the qce between the german japanese was the japanese was a blanket. The german wasym a case by case each one of these german nationals were brought before a hearing board and had thep righ of an attorney. There are complaints about the due process that received that are valid. But it was certainly a very different than the÷u blanket japanese in tournament and the u. S. While the u. S. Congress has apologized, they haveht r w reviewed the german, much smaller scale. There was 125,000. This is, as i said, the 10,000, 11,000. The u. S. Congress has÷u decided that it would not in equivalent to the japanese. Are therezv any other questions . I think that the reason is that there were probably extensive fbi÷u surveillance of the german american activities. I know that i think it was the day after pearl÷u harbor, t fbi rated a major headquarters in st. Louis÷u and i think that they probably in the ensuing hearings became aware because it was no great secret. I mean, before pearl harbor at in their espousal of the cause, so i would imagine thatko in th trials or rather in the hearings, there was a abundant evidence that these were people secret of their sympathy. Yes. And the question thats the jt to lawyers, First Amendment is whether or not their public aspousal of their sympathies for him are for the nazi party, were within the protections of the First Amendment. Ok r t hahp hc my guess is they found they were not. They did time and im just curious what happened to them afterwards,ym perhaps, i missed that and. Eported some of the citizenships were stripped controversial act as jf after the war started, you look at the papers and every other papers, york village, they were was often twoway radio or shortwave radio were received as such. And there was a big trial from nazi organization, that sea balled actually some of the evidence some of the individualo he identified to the german the fbi were in this case while 33 enemy spies. I think it wound upsbeing a 43 people were actually brought to justice by his acts. And including later cases. Thank you. New orleans. And race in america. Ht u. S. President , officer of democracy and black still enslaved the american soul. And associate editor of the r of barack obama. In depth live from noon to 3 00 p. M. Easteryy span 2. He was a wealthy man, but he was portrayed as the champion. Women came to the parade and some gave speeches. Some and it was very shocking. They were criticized by the be home making it. Ronald schaeffer, arthur of the book the carnival campaign. Changed president ial election forever. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q÷u andym a. Then lived on avenue bosh, a street where ss officers resided during thezv altercation. This hourlong talk is part of a multi Day Conference at the National WorldWar Ii Museum in rleans. Up next is one of the museums most featured historians. Ym alex has been a guest speaker over the years sharing deeply personal stories of individuals who made dramatic differences during this global conflict. V hes made his impact with book launches and conference appearances here in new orleans. But also by being one of our our european tours, including normandy and the battle of the bulge. Hes here to talk about his÷u latest book, avenue of spy, which was the basis for alex just got back from last night where we took peoplefrom normandy following the bedford boys and then to paris with a remarkable story were about to hear unfolded during theht nazi occupation. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming alex ÷u kershoff. [ applause ]÷u can you hear me over herezv i walk around. Can you hear me, good . Its great to have you here. Fantastic÷u audience. Im going to be very politically incorrect now. Im going to Say Something that i probably shouldnt say. Im going to thank someone from the museum who, theres a is the reason why im standing here right now. Please jeremy, can you standvua and put your hand up wherever you are, sir, where is jeremy . [ applause ] please forgive me for this, is because jeremy first invited me to go on a tour at the museum several years ago. We spent three weeks together and hes been a big÷u supporter for me over the years, and it was on a trip to europe that i came across the idea, avenue. This is a÷u famous color photograph when world war ii is pretty rare on the left, youll see, over here, second nazi flag here, its just outside the hotel, which is the headquarters pags of the city of light. It was while we were walking, not staggering, i shall ÷usay, while we were walking along here a few times late at night, i decided that i have to try and work out a convincing plan to getzv a new york position. To give me less money to go and get drunk several times in paris, which, unbelievely, i managed to do. So any way, i went out to get on with the story. Ill try÷u and whip through som images. First of all, i wanted to read you, im not really a great believer in reading from any book÷u ive written because peoe tend to fall asleep. I notice that theres no wine on the table, which is a good thing because you definitely would be following asleep if you had some. This is a very brave frenchman and there were many during world war ii, including, i will say, this is what he said about belonging to the abm6 of the night, the secret army, the french men and women who gave everything to see it enough and isnt in÷u terror for over 15 hyundais and nights. We lived in the shadows as soldiers of the night. But our livesp were not dark an marshall. There were arrests, torture and death, which are many of our friends and comrades. And tragedy awaited all of us just around the corner. But we did not live in all this tragedy. We were exhilarat by the challenge and the rightness of our cause. It was in my ways the worst of times and in just aszv many way but thats the time. And the best is what you remember today. n i think that that quote is power frlful and because it remines us which i think÷u millions here today feel about world war ii and the veterans here and hell choose to remember about world war ii, we dont want to focusv on, too often, the terror and the darkness and the death. We want to rememberht heroing a human spirit and the sacrifice and humanity at its very ÷u brightest. On the left over here from the jackson, hes in uniform. It would be under statement top say that it was born pour, going backwards, and established parttime÷u laborer, he left school at 14 to go and work in a quarry and by is the 17 i had my own institute. Plus this is of america at its u finest. He volunteered to serve for the british on the song in the first q doctor, obviously. This is him on his way to front in 1917. He met his wife french nurse in the operatingscenter. He should be head of the table furthest from me. His future wife is rightzv on t immediate life. This is unique for hospital true to the americanym soldiers and other ally troops during the the war inym paris. I fell in love with, their son someone told me pthis, couldnt relay the message, they would kiss each other and very often, but this is taken in the early 1920s. Some decided to stay and he gave up his career and family to be on the side. Had had to retrain as a doctor. They didnt want jus from eastern europbu to come in and replace their doctors in france. They would come to france and requalify the doctor andht somef jacksons spending another five years. Whens been u. S. In the france requalify lg as a doctor,÷u but some told me it was worth it. Generations of champion. She beat the great champion in many zvtimes. Born in late 1922, hes alive today, almostp 90. The family photos. Some are very powerful. The chain smokers are very thick and powerful man that spent most of his use before me, heavy labor. This is then÷u the jackson, his mom and dad in the late÷u 1930s. Its where thescanadians on june 6, 1944. And the order, the gentleman on the choppy waters in the swing sound. To swing in the english channel, i assume he was able to survive lateru on. They addicted the day that fahe they were fofrsed to sur lender and that it would be an honestly, if 20 years. Ym in fact marshall run it by me a couple of weeks. The second war broke out almost broke out the day it was 4eu e most exclusive address i paris on june 14th, concord paris, concord the right word. Choes÷u the nicest place to liv in paris and the avenue flush, on the army winner. Was the most attracted÷u addres for theym senior they chose anyplace they want to live and took it over. I was there. Where the jacksons live. This gentleman here, one of earliest spies was taken in by and protected by jacksonzv who s working some of the jackson work and found his way to the american hospital. He had been working as÷u voluntr and ambulance. In fact, that was a front he wally american earlier spy. You didnt have a foreign intelligence. It was formed after÷u 1940. In the planning of operatiot hid him in the basement in the summer of 1940 and aware ofu nazi. Dpirs connection, and the first risk that jackson took during world war ii to aid intelligence efforts. By fall of 1940 here youll see i highlighted some of the buildings most active number 11 is shown there. If you go along the avenue and youko have good eyesight, i dou that youll see several of the build buildings have been taken over by hands keeper of powerful figures and occupyv a he eventually became the head in paris. And therefore by 1944. In here, he was 36 years old when he arrived in paris on the 14th of june, 1940. Had a phd an academic became a very devoted nazi. ÷u military policeman. The general in ymparis. If you were a push, you didnt want this kind of person these people when they arrive td you arrives, too. And i didnt want these guys around and thats why they arrived in disguiseym and that why early june 1940, right into almostym 1943 the ss was slifh rifrled to dominate in paris anv also france. Moving on i could get this to ko work. But because of the connection, he was allowed to he told me that he÷u loves this photograph because it shows him and his father together and because some were so busy and also shows that theyre happy. He loves to use his hands. He loves the car. He loves to be outdoors and beca eo9 reminder of the lifestyle of the up bringing that he left behind. Weswillp recognize theym confere they blanco the final genocide, the final condition, whether. He had arrived to make surqc tht the particularly places a positio it becomes theu ss and was in fact more than a mentor. And he was inspiration and to q t over here, we have carl and his also arriving for the first time in paris. Hell be placed hell become the head. Hell run it in france and france will become the state, racially pure place and get the most se mat cal followers to make sure they want to get ymdo, done. Theyll destroy the main position which was the front ÷u position. Over ton the right over here, nothing the french today would argue and they are right, i believe, that the two ofym th are responsible overu 150 fren. Around about 80,000, french civilians who decided to÷u defy them. A guy of the b 17 waste gunner who shot down in zvparis. Made when he got back to england. ÷u one of the most incredible feets that any american manage in i. Get to spain and then get back to england. In fact, back to the same pub where he drunk before his crew before the mission was shutdown. For two weeks he was interrogated very severely and he resented it for the rest of his life. When he got back to england they spentko two weeks they quarantid and interviewed him because they thought he could be a civil agent. He may have been turned and then came back to become a spy. In this report that he made, he mentioned a doctor. He made his way to an escape line where he met and then in this report he said some took him back at his home at÷u 11 avenue in july of 1943. Helped severalmy other down to spain. This is the only actually visual that documented evidence i could find,sone of them. It was part of the line that helped many others get to÷u spa. In is the 43, the war against and its up. And they know that the major aid from france itself for any allied invasion÷ hu s come fro the french. They also know that invasion isnt going to come at somep point. Maybe even in the fall of 1943, certainly in some point÷u 1944 allies invade france. Theyll determine to prevent the French Resistance from helping. Theyht went to war and they destroyed anybody that was involved the distance and they use all kind of techniques to do so. He had numberle 4. By the late÷u summer 1943, from 72 and 74. But then by 84 here you have also senior ss officer and he becomes one of the mostv suc s successful many of them trained, that one of the mists that the british madesdecent spies. Englishman arriving. Of walking into a cattle. And amateurs, many of them. Its not to under mine÷u of the british during world war ii to pick on france you have to say it was the deduction. It was an absolute deduction. It was ahe guy that was the chi blood hound, the guy that tracked down mostu of our best agent was a former policeman in germany for a good collea[n and it was in 1984 that some of our finest agents were tortured before they were sent to concentration camps. Ym the driver, for example, was tortured you see the filmzv e was very charming aggressive young British Working class and parachutet into france and she was interrogated at length at number 84. Which was by some of 1943 and it was caused avenue bosh because there were so many german that is lived there. Moving on now, itszv been goodv. It got taken in three years ago. In 96 years old today. ÷u incredibly, he incredibly,s part of the french time that climbed. And we the british managed t summoned everest. Before the highest mountain that they climb and this guy was probably the frenchnb team. He knocked on the front door number 11 and he told her i belonged to÷u french. I have something to ask you. In a Meeting Place and drop box of myb resistance group. He told me that do it by this time, its 54 years old, how do8 you say the second. He gave you at the Meeting Place for me, its just a second. The decision to jnyn the resistance auz very serious one, 0 fbly, s obviouslyac she had a 15yearold son. As a place and intelligence was dropped and not only her life she was still prepared to÷u do. 1944, this was a photograph taken in 72. Ym headquartered taken by the great french developer and the founding members. In paris, in 1944, he wasu liberated by french taking on the division and or the american lets not forget that, on the 25th of august 1944. Wellsecond tanks rolled and went into one of the offices of this one here and he took shocked atzv the polish ss official and it shows the papers being discarded. The haste with which it÷u left paris after 15 hyundais of occupation days and light of occupation. And in late may of 1944, eventually a couple of weeks before d day. Theres a knock on the front door. The knock finally came and the belief, the passion, pair military force of the regime, at least arrived and arrestymhted. Unusual photograph actually that was a part of group of French Resistancezv. He only wore some addresses. And among and the only one on the 16th of august 1944 from paris. This year on the 29th of april 1945. And shes been rescued by the swedish red cross at the ÷u11th hour. Ill read you quickly, the 29 o april. She got off a boat thats come across and shes got proofym of other women who have been saved from ravens book. She writes to her sister in paris. My sister,zv i know nothing abo you since we saw each other at grown, 18. Do you have any news, nickname she had for her husband, or pete, the name she used for philip, her 9nn if my handwriting seems to tremble, its because i have open wounds on three fingers. D i also have arthritis. And my ears rung. I cant hear on one side. My feet are swollen, and i have terrible ÷udissentry. It is a miracle i am not dead and to think that i will see you soon, no time. Kisses, your sister. It took jacksons ÷usurprise. She didnt know if her were deported to the third rank, around the same v time, it may have survived. Mrs. Phillips from the summer of 1945, he didnt know that his mother had ÷ulived. Philip found himself on may 4, 1945. Near and they contained under 12,000 concentration camp survivors around 10,000 men have been taken work camp. On the fourth of may, it was a float and thats exactly what we did. V askym st. One of 200 people over 2,000 and his father drowned. He was liberated by thezv briti and for the summer of 1945, he worked with the commissions and french and÷u this is a photogra that was taken of him in the summer of 1945. And. Where are you, please come back to paris. He told me it was÷u eptember 195 when he came on the metro in paris and across paris. And he got out, this is after 3 and he walked along it and he walked back to his house and his mother was recently at the front door. He said i went back into myyd bedroom, which i left a year and a half before and everything was the same. My mother had not moved he was 17 years old. Thank god, he told me for me, everything had changed. I spent a year in a concentration camp. My father had been killed. Ive missed my entire adolescence. I went from being a child, a boy,zv to being a man. In 1946, he testified in a war crimes trial against thezv senr ss. When he was able to point to 9 ss officersym and all of the 9 were executed by the british. And he told me when i interviewed him. Nb that was the people he hadsseen every day, people that made him lose all faith andym 16yearol. Whenmy their twisted poisono idology held sway throughout ÷m europe. Paris in 1954. Both were sentenced to death by the french, the british, also, we insisted on trying to sentence him to death, war crimes. For political reasons theyre both able to survive. This gentleman here on the right, if you go and google his name youll see an American Academic nn having lunch with him in germany. Not became successful after the world. And nothing sits there and silver name to fall back on. In 2023, he dies at age 93. He says, you know, i was never a criminal,i was never a genocide, i was never a mass murder, i was serving my country. The÷u great challenge di of lye which did i organize the deportatio deportations. Yes, i did signko the orders to send them away. But i didnt know what was dpoipg to happen to them when they got offp the train, they ended up back here. No one ever told me. Fantastic fabulous to the end. And so this is philip in 2014. Its a big part taken by a friend of mine because it shows you the things that were made on eh it was the most militant place by american soldiers in paris and world war ii. It was the tomb of na polian. And kophilip, today. Select few, of the elite few of the resistance that was allowed huge emotional andym extraordinary firm, anybody else being confirmed, thats the rcreme de la creme are at the end of their ym lives. That will take 25 people from museum to trip to france and the last minute i was able to surprise all of them and they were able to work into the main resechgs earlier and we were ablerrz shake this mans hands. Very powerful the order must stick from her doing thatp the very last time. Its÷u very emotional. It was powerful thing to do. Im looking at myself and the time. And that was taken on the patio, which is a place very close on, really, without being too much of a booster, im shameless, i know, but thats where the groups from the museum, where we had dinner after we met philip this afternoon. Just one last thing before i bunch of your time here, listening to wonderful stories, its a power of five. Indulge me, differently, i know she madeu a decision. As she was deported on august 15, is the this 4. The women were naked, most of them, it was a very hot day. And it felt like soreness inside. Religious bodies said these together because they were if you look, they were looking with dropped to other womens nights. Zv jacqueline was one of them. She was taken out in february 1945 one morning two other british women, especially ak spies. And she was shocked in the back of the head and mer. I was never until thep demonstration, but then we got on apple jus. But before she arrived in france before she gave her life, she became an agent for the british. Andzv leo who reason her. And she needed practice hotel. Theyll decode and code and decode and code tozv practice. The life that i have at all, is all that i have. And the life that i haveu is yours. The love that i have of the life that i have. Its your feed andzv yours. And yours. I think i should have arrests i shall have. If death will be in thezv boh;n for the peace. Thank you very much. [ applause ]b÷u if you have questions, please raise your÷u hands so they can gotten to. I didnt want you to run away. Ive not yet been deported, just finished your book a couple of months ago. I think its theb fifth or sixt. Ill take it. Its just a question, what led to the arrest of the jackson. Ym was it just talking about it. They belong to a greek pool, dont let forget. In fact, i mchked to come across the document kwh is in the archives the document which is in the archives which is in paris which name the members who were deportd with the jacksons and on may 22nd,ym 1944, it was rated, they ranked closely together and they found a list of namesu its nothing that happened toym paris, which is wt happened to same organization. You talked ability the soe being penetrated. I dont know if you can elaborate on this. There wasa Certain Department that had terribly pen traded in their communications on the ground after departmentzv h or that was a knee, could you also excel, expel, the net worth thats most famous for beingu penetrated, which keefr rolled up pretty quickly and thats the one youzv had to file excitemen with agencies in your car and others that were involved in that across the network. Did it very carefully and ÷u cleverly. When you arrive, if youre one of the agents who prosper, youre in a i take people t the National Entry and going to be 84, nothing has changed, you went under÷u ground and you wer taken us to the second floor after the 1814 brush. If you would push and most of the guys were push and÷u most o the women were very interesting because they had married and spent part of their lives in europe because÷u now they can extend it. Youve taken to the second life and what happened is,ko he would be there with biscuits and pea and sandwiches. I dont know if they had the crust, cut it÷u off. But it was finished the case, its sitting down and youll get the points, talk about, have a up of tea. , talk about, have a theres no one wasting this. And if we dont, well talk about this in human÷u arteries. So prosper, theres quite a long story about ÷u its a couple the agents, so the classic example 0 f how you can start with it so easily under mine and captured British Intelligence and actually i red. My husband÷u helped you to remember that its not here. If a few people should have important name asb well, if you google my name im listed. I fix÷ued÷u thats why i went t college, a few people who did work. Any way im not mis alternative. They were kind were and inspired by church hill. He wanted to restore that. He set europe aflame, he said. Professional intelligence has am i six years. And am i six watched and some people believe that the they were very useful decoys. So mi6 got on with the real business, and others paid the price. Some believe there were betrayed by mi6 operatives. The germans would swallow a false story that when we were going to invade france on dday. They said it was going to be the fall of 1943, not june of 1944. We wanted the germans to buy that. Prosper is the example of how easy it was. Knochen interrogated some of the soe, members of the Prosper Network in france. Alex, to your right. A comment first and then a question. I notice that april 29 of 1945 was also the same day that felix sparks liberated dachau. It is interesting how that plays out for the protagonist in another story. Could you comment on the overall effectiveness of the Resistance Movement in france . And also, i get a sense from what i read, that the french look to back on the Second World War here is a country with the largest army in the world that one point, gets rolled over by the germans in nothing flat. And now a matter of shame in many respects. Somehow, the Resistance Movement seemed to kind of bolster the french and how they look upon that period. If the french ambassador is here, please leave the building now. Maybe not, given what just happened recently. I think you raise very important points. A wonderful question. I will try to be brief. And i will do it by i went to see philip the third time i went to see philip, i was rolling him in his wheelchair to get quite drunk at his favorite restaurant. We were on the third floor and a woman was in a wheelchair right beside us, and got into the lift. She was slumped in the wheelchair and she must have been in her mid90s. And she was drooling. I looked at her and i looked at philip and we went to lunch and the french know how to treat their veterans, especially their resistance veterans. Its a big deal for them. We each sat, nine of us, everybody in their late 80s, early 90s, nine members of the French Resistance were in a separate room at the restaurant. Each table had a white linen tablecloth and we had a half bottle of burgundy every one for lunch. This is how they treated their veterans. And i said to philip, who is that in the lift . And he said, oh, she was in the resistance. You know, i havent been able to sleep. Shes been screaming every night. Well over 70 years after the Second World War, this woman wakes up in the middle of the night screaming. Because when she was caught by the gestapo, they were clever. They were clever a lot of the time. Instead of killing her and torturing her, they made her parents kneel down in front of her and shot her parents in the back of the head. And they said to her, you can go free. Just remember to tell everybody else that is what is going to happen to them, too. So when you go to france and you go to normandy i was there weeks ago when you talk to the french about de gaulle, about what happened in the Second World War, you will have different reactions. Some frenchmen i talk to are very angry about the accusations that somehow they lacked spine, that they give up too easily, that they were so quickly defeated