Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence And Image 20150907

Susan swain Grace Coolidge was enormously popular as first lady, and influenced the taste of american women by becoming a style icon. Married to a man known as silent cal, she never spoke to the press, but she did use her office to bring attention to issues she cared about. Susan swain good evening, and welcome to cspan series, first ladies influence and image. Tonight, well be telling you the story of first lady Grace Coolidge who came into office with her husband, the president , in 1923 after the sudden death of president harding. Susan swain here to set the stage for us as we learn about the fiveplus years of their time in the white house is amity shlaes, who is a coolidge biographer, syndicated columnist, author of other books on that period. Welcome to the program. Susan swain lets have you just tell us about of the arrival of Calvin Coolidge into the white house. How prepare was he for the job . Amity shlaes actually, quite prepared because hed been a politician all his life. President coolidge was one of those men who started small in city council, a City Solicitor in massachusetts where the coolidges lived, and went all the way up the ladder of the state of massachusetts, and then to vicepresident. So, one could never be prepared for a shock like the death of a president , but he was quite prepared professionally. Susan swain and Grace Coolidge was at his side all along that way in public life. How ready was she for the white house . Amity shlaes well, she didnt think she was. She wrote to her Sorority Sisters and said, you know, pray for me, friends. But she was, too, because shes been a politicians wife, and she had quite a realistic view of politics and that particular job. Amity shlaes she called this kind of marriage a double harness. Can you imagine that kind of phrase we would use about marriage in a positive, but shed pulled her load along with the president when they were little politicians. Amity shlaes and you know what . Even when they were courting, they were thinking about this sitting in the governors chair. It was clear even when they were courting that calvin, her future husband, was ambitious in politics, and that was part of her deal in the marriage. Susan swain 1920s were a period of enormous change for this country societally. Just a couple of things that we pulled out as an example of it. Women had voted for the first time in hardings election. Susan swain so in 1925, the first woman governor in the country was elected in wyoming, nellie ross. In 1926, the National Broadcasting company was founded. The First Talking movie came out in 1927, the jazz singer. In 1928, Amelia Earhart made her famous flight across the atlantic ocean, so just a couple of the enormous changes going on. What kind of country did Calvin Coolidge inherit . Amity shlaes he inherited a country in rough water interesting but rough water. Amity shlaes when we came out of world war i, remember that was 1918, we owed quite a bit of money. People wondered if there would be revolutions here. It was quite progressive and interesting and unexpected. For example, the government nationalized our big industry, the railroad, and then denationalized it. The stock market was shut down at one point during world war i. Amity shlaes so nobody knew how wed come out of it. So workers, especially, Public Sector workers were very angry and justifiably so and you know, that was a factor as well. Plus, onethird of the returning vets and remember, there was general conscription in world war i, had some form of disability, and we had no penicillin. Susan swain wow. Thats a lot. How much was he clued into what the national in government . Calvin coolidge to sit in on his cabinet. Welcome. A form of ,ery useful for coolidge although he never did hear all the dirty details of the harding administration, but he had heard from. Senate whichw the she recalled as quite an experience. Mrs. Harding was much older. She was a bit envious, in my analysis, of young Grace Coolidge who had was sort of had a beautiful complexion, and that was much treasured in that time d still had the bloom of youth upon her. Amity shlaes and mrs. Harding defined one color as her own, a certain blue called harding blue. Well, every color looks good on grace. And she we have some letters that suggest she was indeed thinking about the next election, and maybe president coolidge wouldnt be the candidate the next time. Susan swain they also were very different in just what we have learned about the two women. Last week was Florence Harding, we learned that she was, he was really had a very bold personality, the issues that she cared about was, in fact, the person who encouraged her husband into politics. Susan swain they seemed to have quite the opposite in the relationship between the coolidges. Can you talk about the differences and how the women approached public life and their temperament . Amity shlaes well, cyndy bittinger, who is coming on tonight, graces biographer, said, well, the harding marriage is more like a business. And they had a deal that warren got to do this and mrs. Harding got to do that. And she referred to him as Warren Harding like that. It was an older marriage as an private maybe there were some fireworks but in public, she didnt talk about politics. Her husband didnt want her to talk about politics. He kept her, you know, in quite the proscribed area. One time when mrs. Coolidge tried on a riding habit and went riding, she looks very good in the riding habit, he said he didnt want her to do that, you know. I advise you not to try anything new while were in the presidency. So, mrs. Coolidge in some ways was a very oldfashioned wife, but its complicated. Susan swain well, were going to be visiting a number of sites associated with the coolidges as we do throughout these programs. And the first one of those is vermont, which is the birthplace of Calvin Coolidge, and theres a little town called Plymouth Notch. Were going to learn what happened there on the night he took office. But whats Plymouth Notch like . Well, im just newly the chairman of the board of our foundation there, and it is beautiful. And we, the Calvin Coolidge Memorial Foundation, want to invite all americans to come to visit this place. Its clabbered, its small, its one of the most beautiful villages in the world. And you can see coolidges birthplace. In just a minute we will tell you the dramatic story of the night Calvin Coolidge got the news he was about to become president of the united states. Before we do that, let me tell you about how you can involved in our program tonight. One of the things thats been very special about this series is learning from your questions, and we encourage them in three different ways. Susan swain you can call us. Numbers will be on the screen throughout the program 2025853880, if you live in the eastern or central time zones; 2025853881, if you live in the mountain or pacific time zones. Susan swain you can also tweet us. Our twitter address is firstladies. And you can also join the conversation on our facebook page, on cspan. You can find the beautiful photograph of the Coolidge Administration. Theres already a conversation underway. And send us a question there. Well try to mix those all in throughout the program. Now, to vermont, Plymouth Notch and the night that Calvin Coolidge and Grace Coolidge learned that theyre coming to the white house. begin video clip William Jenney Plymouth Notch is the birthplace and boyhood home of Calvin Coolidge. He was born in a little house attached to the back of the store that his father operated. And then when he was four, he moved across the road to the building we now know as the coolidge homestead. This was an oldfashioned town for most americans of the sophisticated roaring 20s. This is quaint even back then. William jenney grace, of course, spent some of the time just walking around. That was one of her great passions. She loved to walk, and so she would go down to the cemetery, especially after her son, calvin jr. Died, to visit the gravesite there. She did a lot of knitting and other types of handwork while she was here and just enjoying the country air. She was a burlington girl, grew up in the biggest town in vermont. And when she was growing up, her house had electricity and plumbing. When she came here, this was very much a country home still, and so no electricity or plumbing in the house where she stayed with her husband. This is the kitchen of the coolidge homestead. And so, this is where they would have had breakfast and lunch, and some suppers, too, im sure. There was no real dining room in the house. Its very, very simple, a vermont rural home. William jenney and in here, there was one running faucet, here in the kitchen, and that was the only plumbing in the entire house. And so, this was quite a contrast in what grace had been experiencing not only as a child growing up in burlington, which was kind of sophisticated at the time, as well as , of course, in the white house years when she had all the modern luxuries. William jenney this is a twohole privy, and it was the only sanitary facility in the house. Of course, coming here with calvin was very much a throwback to the previous century. And so this not what she was used to , but hearing all reports about grace, she probably took this in good stride , and regard this as just part of her experience with her husband. William jenney the furniture in here is the bedroom set that grace and calvin used when they were here at the coolidge homestead, here at Plymouth Notch, vermont. And as you can see, its a very simple set of furniture. Its very typical of circa 1870s or so. Its a country style. Rooms were small in this house and not the spacious rooms that they were accustomed to at the white house, certainly. William jenney she was also present, of course, in 1923 when the word came that harding had died. So she was among the select group in the family sitting room that was witness to the swearing in. This is the sitting room of the coolidge homestead, and we now know it as the oath of office room. This is where the room gathered when president coolidge was administered the oath of office. William jenney and so, all the furnishings in here are original. The group gathered around the center table. The original lamp that lit the scene; the pen that was used to sign the documents; and the bible that was here but not officially used in the swearing in because that was not required by vermont state law. William jenney grace would have stood right about where i am now. And there is a famous painting by Arthur Keller of the homestead inaugural, and shows the group gathered around, and she is right next to calvins side. end video clip susan swain i want to introduce you to our second guest at the table, cyndy bittinger, who knows the Plymouth Notch very well, a former director of the Calvin Coolidge Memorial Foundation there. And also, as we learned earlier, biographer of Grace Coolidge. Her book is called sudden star. Thanks for being with us. Susan swain well, set the tone for us about her personality and what she brought to this job, being thrust into the office as suddenly as she was in 1923 . Cynthia bittinger sudden star it was sudden but she had been second lady for a little while, and she was new to washington. And she also had not had a major role when her husband was governor of massachusetts. She was very much in the background. So, as the wife of the vicepresident , they were invited out quite a bit to dinner and she got to know the personages, she said, in washington d. C. So that was very good. Cynthia bittinger and as calvin used to say, we have to eat somewhere, grace. So they would go out a lot and they were staying at the hotel willard. So it was obvious that they would need to go out to dinner quite a bit. Cynthia bittinger but she was set the tone in that she was very joyous, very vivacious. Some people said she was the fun one, she was the front door greeter; whereas, her husband was the thoughtful one behind her. So, its an interesting dynamic, because we often dont see that with first ladies and president s. Susan swain well, you have to solve this question for me, because everything ive been reading about Calvin Coolidge over the years hes not just the thoughtful one. He earns his moniker silent cal, but he seems to be an antipolitician in a lot of ways. What was that about this man . We see politics as a contact sport today. What was it about this man that brought him to politics . His personality doesnt seem so suited for it. Cynthia bittinger the principles, but also the politics. He wasnt a gladhander in that way, but he did shake a lot of hands. The one reason he was able to climb up in massachusetts was because he went to the constituencies. Cynthia bittinger very famous stories about what he would say when he met someone, if hes asked for something, hed say, well, maybe. And well maybe meant you would get it. More than, he underpromised and overdelivered, thats a political tactic and a likeable one, because it makes you trust the politician, and therefore, also government. So, he was a principled and thoughtful politician, more modern than wed like to pretend now. Susan swain so on facebook, david welch asked a series of questions, but heres one that fits to where we are right now with the story. What aspect of her personality or experience, he asked, helped mrs. Coolidge be such an effective counterbalance for her husband . And, do you think he could have had the political career he had without her . Cynthia bittinger now, thats an interesting one. Because when he was vicepresident , she thought she could get back to North Hampton boise quite a bit. He said, no. I need you here to help me navigate these political waters and these social waters. Cynthia bittinger so, yes, i think she was key in giving him a social stability and reaching out to others. She remembered peoples names and faces, so she could be very engaging with people. And he could sit back and think, as i said before. And also they both had a great sense of humor that they had all these jokes with each other. And of course, he played a few susan swain so as they were coming into office, as Warren Harding died, the number of very big scandals we all learned about in school, the teapot dome and others, were beginning to come to light. How did Calvin Coolidge handled these scandals . Amity shlaes well, this was one of the tests because it wahis own party, you know, maybe we blame them. And what he did was he appointed a bipartisan group, the equivalent of a modern investigative group, both sides. And he stood back from it. And also, interestingly, when he came in as president , nowadays, one might say make a clean sweep. Lets get rid of the suspect ones and use the excuse of the turnover for that. He didnt do that, because the continuity was important to him. Continuity was a big part of hardingcoolidge policy dont change a lot, reduce uncertainty. Amity shlaes so, he kept most of them, i think all of them on until it became very clear that there was too much trouble, and some left, but all very proper, all very clear. And he had the blessing i think of not knowing much about it, and people could see that he hadnt really known much as vicepresident , though he had suspected. And really, the one thing he resented about Warren Harding whom he liked very much was that harding might be sullying the presidency. Coolidge had Great Respect for the presidency. Susan swain is it true that Grace Coolidge went to listen to some of the Senate Hearings on the scandal of the administration . Cynthia bittinger well, im not sure about the scandals, but i think she did go from time to time to congress, and she did listen in on what was going on. But she kept very much in the background. She was more in the tradition of first ladies to have a happy home life, take care of her children, greet the public, but not meddle in public policy. Susan swain were going to go back in time now and learn a little bit about how the two of them met, and how this political partnership. What was it, the double harness . Cynthia bittinger double harness. Susan swain double harness. And how that all got started . Heres a bit of the story of how the coolidges met. begin video clip julia nelson this is the clark school for the deaf where calvin and grace met for the first time. She was a teacher living in a dormitory here, and he was a tenant in a boarding house in the property. So, were standing outside the building that Grace Coolidge had lived in as a teacher at the clark school. She was up here in the second floor of this building in the dormitory. Were standing in a courtyard area. It would have been a Flower Garden and roses that grace would have tended to in her free time. Julia nelson the building right beside us is where Calvin Coolidge lived as a boarder while working as a lawyer in North Hampton. His room was up on the third floor back of the building. And he would have stood there watching grace in the Flower Garden. She caught a glimpse of him standing there in his undershirt, and he would watch her tend the rose garden. Julia nelson were now in graces bedroom in her clark School Dormitory building. And this window here is where grace would have looked out and seen calvin across the courtyard of the next building. And she would have put a candle in this window here to signify to calvin that the parlor room below them was available for them to meet up in. Julia nelson we are now in the parlor room of the dormitory that Grace Coolidge lived in. And in this room was where calvin and grace, when they were courting, would meet up and be able to sit and talk, and have some time together. Despite him being in his 30s and her, in her 20s, they still had to abide by the rules of the school, and needed to meet somewhere where they were supervised and chaperoned while they were on campus. And here, they would sit and talk and get to know each other. end video clip susan swain and we learned about their North Hampton meeting. What about the two attracted them to each other . Cynthia bittinger i think coming from vermont, of course both of them from vermont attracted them but yet, shes the urban one. Shes from burlington, vermont; hes from little rural plymouth. So they were quite different in that respect, but she found him engaging and thoughtful, and he found her beautiful, but he didnt quite know how to romance her. Cynthia bittinger so he asked one of his friends, who happened to be the shoemaker in town, what to say to grace. And the shoemaker said, just compliment her. Tell her her dresses are beautiful. Do that kind of thing. And then, grace actually saved the letters that calvin wrote to her. Even though they were neighbors, he wrote her letters, and they were very affectionate letters between them. Susan swain and how long did they court before they married . Cynthia bittinger they met in 1903 and they married in october of 1905. Susan swain her family, she was an only child, and ive read that her mother wasnt so happy about the relationship. Cynthia bittinger well, lemira, of course, adored her only child and thought that after grace had graduated from the university of vermont, she would stay in the burlington area. But grace had a mind of her own and had met deaf children through the yale family who were neighbors, and said, id like to teach at the Clarke School for the deaf. So grace said, im moving to North Hampton. Cynthia bittinger and lemira said, oh, thats a womans town. Thats the home of smith college, and i guess most of the men are married so it will be all right. So lemira could still look for a husband for grace. So that was sort of her idea what would happen here. But grace with her mind of her own finds calvin, calvin finds grace, and the rest is history. Of course, lemira didnt get what she really wanted. And on the wedding day, lemira has a headache and doesnt feel well, which isnt actually her normal appearance. Susan swain she got married at her parents home . Amity shlaes she did, and a bit earlier than her mother would have liked, as cyndy said, and with some trepidation, writing her friends that she was going off into this adventure, but they were quite determined. And this was a modern thing, they chose one another. Very modern. Shed been to college. Shed been to coed college. She had a trade. She taught the deaf. Very modern marriage compared to many of the preceding presidencies. Susan swain jennifer sinyarrow wrote on facebook, im interested in her work with the disabled. She says, one of the first to do so, was she involved with Gallaudet University when she was in washington, d. C. . Do you know that . Amity shlaes no, because she believed in lip reading, and she had been trained to do that, not sign language. Ive been to the Clarke School for the deaf several times, and it is a very different art, and i would say a very difficult one. So grace took on quite a challenge. Susan swain and here our first caller of the evening. This is john watching us in seattle. Hi, john. Youre on the air. John hi. Im from seattle. I think you just answered my question much. Susan swain yes. John did grace know asl . And it looks like you might have answered the question for me. Thank you. Susan swain how much of a controversy where the two approaches to teaching the deaf . Cynthia bittinger i dont think it was that much of a controversy. These were different concepts. And the feeling is that you would fit in Society Better if you did lip reading. Sign language would not advance you in terms of your career. I think we feel differently about that now, but back then, there was a real drive to fit in and participate in society. Susan swain next is jim from springfield, illinois. Hi, jim. Youre on. Jim ok. I just had a couple of questions. One was there was a famous anecdote and oh, by the way, i talked to jim cooke whom im sure youre familiar with. His oneman show called more than two words. Anyway, there was a story about when they were in the white house , when grace was ill one sunday and calvin went to church alone. And when he returned, grace asked him what had been the subject to the sermon. And he replied, sin. And grace said, well, what did the preacher have to say about it . And calvin, is alleged to have replied, he was against it. Are you familiar with that or any of the other anecdotes about their relationship in the white house . Susan swain thanks very much. There seem to be all kinds of favorite stories about the man of few words. Do you have a favorite one yourself . Amity shlaes well, being against sin, thats very good one. Thats a kind of new englandism. If youve lived in new england, you sin; he was agin it. Amity shlaes and coolidge, when coolidge said he were the cadence, the way he said it was very much of his region. Jim cooke, the coolidge impersonator whom the caller mentioned, captures this. And if you were on the show, he takes a full minute to say the word cow. They had, they speak more slowly and more interestingly. Amity shlaes the other story, to which the caller refereed is that coolidge goes to a dinner party and a bright lady says, well, mr. Coolidge, i made a bet could get you to say more than two words tonight. And the fellow, i think at that time the vicepresident said, you lose. And that was coolidges humor. Amity shlaes today, wed think that was a little cold. Theres a little pause after and you laugh. Thats boarding house humor. Susan swain what are some of the other things we should know about the early years of the relationship before they come to the white house that are key . Cynthia bittinger well, building on some of the stories, when they get married, calvin delivers to grace 52 pairs of socks to be darned. And grace says, did you marry me to darn socks . And he said, no, but it comes in pretty handy. And she started doing it. I mean, it was ok. So they did kid each other quite a bit. Cynthia bittinger and i think she adjusted to some of his personality. I think he was a little tough when he was writing speeches. And she said she was really his safety valve. She would listen to him and, you know, be positive when he was doing Something Like that. Susan swain also some key roles before they came to the white house. We talked about their vicepresident ial years. What other ones were formative in the two of them establishing the people they would become as first couple. Amity shlaes well, when he was governor, he came into a difficult situation. The governor of massachusetts, the turmoil that we described before, and in the middle of it , there was the Boston Police strike, a Public Sector union striking just before, by the way, his election, and many of the policemen were his own constituents. Amity shlaes there are whole dissertations written about how good coolidge was with immigrants, and of course, the Boston Policemen were irish. And yet, coolidge just, they went off, there was anarchy in boston, and coolidge fired the policemen. A very dramatic moment, incredible tension for him. Amity shlaes his political career at risk, not sure hes doing the right thing. Some of us arent sure he did the right thing. And grace is in the background where . At home in northampton. And that was their relationship in massachusetts. Amity shlaes hed go on the train, back and forth, different lines, sometimes back to northampton. In the middle of the strike, he went home. It was his ive read its his sons birthday right in the middle there. But that was the peace to take the hard decisions. Amity shlaes another place he went once in a while when he had to make a hard decision was to the Little Cemetery to see his ancestors who had come over much earlier in massachusetts. So his family was important to him. And safety valve, when you heard grace say that phrase, well, thats a little bit ominous, im my husbands safety valve isnt it . Because it sounds a little bit like anger and unmodern, but she was that and she was content with it. Susan swain next is sean, watching us in louisville, kentucky. Hi, sean. Sean hi. How are you doing . I just want to say how much i appreciate the series. And i wanted to see if your guests have commented on the death of the coolidges son and how it affected mrs. Coolidge. And also, i wanted to say how much i loved mrs. Coolidges portrait in the white house with her dog. Thank you. Susan swain thanks so much. We are going to talk about the death of their son later on because it was so important to, obviously, to the parents and to his election in his own right as president. So let us catch up with that story a later little on. Susan swain but you asked about her first ladys portrait. Were going to show that to you. And as we do, when you have the opportunity to see the first ladys portrait, i must say that Grace Coolidges official portrait is rather arresting in the red dress. Can you talk a little bit about that portrait, how it was done and what it how well it epitomizes her . Cynthia bittinger well, a couple of things here. Howard Chandler Christy is the portrait painter, and he was posing, having grace pose, and he said, i really like this because of this contrast between a red dress and the white dog. Cynthia bittinger calvin came by and he said, oh, i like grace much better in her white dress. I dont agree and i think we should just have her wear her white dress and dye the dog red. So there was that kind of joking too. The painting is also important because the pi beta phis gave this to the white house, and they came 1300 strong. It was the biggest gathering of women at the white house up until that time. Susan swain and who were they . Cynthia bittinger and they were her fraternity. They called them fraternities in those days. She was a fraternity sister; now we would say sorority sister. She had started the pi phis at the university of vermont. Cynthia bittinger and then always stayed interested and involved, and was appointed to higher and higher offices there, and had to really recede once they reached the national office. But she always loved her sisters. And in 1915, she started roundrobin letters with her sisters. That means writing letters to them and they write letters to her, and passing these around. So the pi phis were very important for us, the historians, because we have those letters to read. Susan swain were going to learn more about Grace Coolidges style in this next video. begin video clip William Jenney there are a number of items that dont come out very often because of their fragility and sensitivity to light, and so forth. We have these in our permanent storage area here. William jenney and she was really quite a fashion plate of the 1920s, and that was largely because of him. That was his one physical weakness, actually, was to keep her in beautiful clothing. And much of the jewelry is more of the costume style, but there are a few fancies pieces that i kind of like to show. William jenney this is a beautiful jade pendant that included a plaque and is surrounded by sapphire and diamonds. And so, of course, this would fit in very nicely with the 1920s interest in the oriental style. William jenney there is a small brooch that was given to her, and there are newspaper reports of her wearing this piece. It is the eagle of the united states, and it is diamonds, rubies, and sapphires set in platinum, wonderful little art deco traveling clock. William jenney among the several fans that we have in the collection is this one here which she received from the president of cuba, when they went to that country. Cuba was the only other country that calvin and grace visited during their white house years. And this is a particularly fine fan, as you can see, with the mother of pearl, with gold inlay, and the hand painted screen. William jenney one of the gowns in the collection is actually so heavily beaded that we can never display it in its upright position. And so whenever we have this out in display case, it is flat. And you can see that it is almost entirely beads and sequins, quite heavy, actually. William jenney she had a great impact on the style of the 1920s. This was not the flapper look by any means, but the gowns very much have the rugged hemlines that was so popular during the 1920s, the heavily beaded features, very typical. You can only imagine what this must have looked like as she came down the stairs of the white house. end video clip susan swain patricia canagleo on facebook picks up on this. Is it true that president coolidge was very frugal except when it came to his wifes clothing . I read that he would buy her very expensive dresses. I mean, weve just seen that. When did that whole dynamic first started in the relationship . Cynthia bittinger i think he was interested in clothing for both of them, right from the beginning. And he even wrote his father to get funding for their clothes because he wanted to look good. This was part of their image as a couple. I think its fascinating. Cynthia bittinger i also we havent mentioned Frank Waterman stearns yet, his backer who owned the Stearns Department store in boston. I have a feeling that Frank Stearns was able to maybe get some discounts on some of this clothing so that grace could wear it. That could have been part of it. But calvin would go windowshopping, which is so interesting as a president. And he would buy a hat and bring it back for grace to wear. So he was very interested in what she wore. Susan swain do you have more to say on this topic . Amity shlaes well, just that if she didnt like it, she didnt always say. She saw how important it was to him, but she certainly enjoyed the clothing. And that was something they could do together, wasnt it . That she enjoyed how lavishly he, you know, he attended to her. Thats what we forget how beautiful she was. She became a great and important symbol for americans. Her joy, her beauty, all of that. Susan swain and we have had first ladies earlier in history who have set fashion standards. But this was the time of the great rise in advertising. Were beginning to see national media. So how good was this for business . Amity shlaes im sure it was very good, to have a first lady like this. She didnt, as we mentioned before, she didnt speak much in public, so everyone loved her. She never said anything you wouldnt like because she didnt speak very much. So that was actually pretty good. Susan swain but like her predecessor, she was the master of the photo op. Is that true . Amity shlaes she absolutely was. And you know, this is also theater. He played this excuse me he played the silent one and she played the big, you know this volume. You know some of this is theater, and in marriage, we trade off roles, dont we . So they had their act down. Thats what we could say. Susan swain you should note as a style or fashion icon as the first lady. I think she was even honored by the french fashion industry for her style that she set in the united states. But someone asked whether or not she could be considered the woman of the jazz age, was she . Amity shlaes well, he wouldnt have liked that. I think she might have liked it. She was she wanted to dance. She took dancing lessons. She took lessons in washington. But coolidge wouldnt have liked that. He didnt want her to have short skirts, you know. He would say, well, to a young lady, what you need is a rug, when he saw knees. And he didnt like her to wear pants. Grace didnt wear pants until after calvin passed away. Amity shlaes so i dont think you can go all the way. And her hair bobbing, maybe cyndy can speak about this, but he didnt really like the idea of bobbing hair. No. She didnt bob her hair until after the presidency either. Cynthia bittinger she did have music, though, wonderful music at the white house, but it wasnt jazz. It was more traditional, sergey rachmaninov. She loved to showcase people at the white house who were very talented, but it wasnt jazz. That was going a little too far. So were in this transition time period where some people feel this couple was quite traditional as the nation was becoming very, very wild in some ways. Remember, they believe in prohibition, too. Susan swain on the first ladies website, in her biography, they write about her. She was among the first of first ladies to pursue a study of her predecessors, writing that since i went to the white house, i have read eagerly everything i could finding i could find concerning former mistresses of the nation and have regretted that there was so little. Susan swain we have some quotes from them that look at their approach to this role of first lady we want to share with them. First is Grace Coolidge herself, and this is a pretty famous one. Youll both be familiar with it. Susan swain as she thought about herself as first lady, she wrote or said, this was i and yet, not i. Susan swain and here is Calvin Coolidge about the role. The public little understands the very exacting duties that she must perform and the restrictive life that she must lead. Susan swain id like to have you both comment more about this studied approach to the role of first lady. Amity shlaes remember how many hands they had to shake because people came through by the thousands. So, when calvin did grace a favor, it was that he would shake 3,000 hands so she didnt have to. She might stay out of the reception, but more often, she had to be there, or she had to entertain or she amity shlaes so, just the very physical obligations were hard to endure. At a point, she did become ill later in the presidency. So you can see how much they had to do just in terms of pure reception. This idea of the white house as the democratic place, you know. That meant that people come in, and certainly, the hardings had set that precedent. Susan swain cyndy . Cynthia bittinger actually, as we all know, you are the head of state. We dont have royalty here. And they are somewhat our royalty, and thats what youre getting at a little bit with all of this adulation by the public. I mean, when they would travel, people swarmed them, so to speak. And she brought a little more discipline into the role of first lady, though. She had two secretaries instead of one. Cynthia bittinger Florence Harding let people come any old time to the white house. And grace said, no. I think you should need me at noon on the steps or 3 00 reception. She was a little bit more organized about these things. Cynthia bittinger and then people forget that they had the mayflower yacht. That was their camp david which we know about today. This is a place they could go and be themselves. The military run it and the public really didnt know a lot about what was going on there, even though, of course, it was very upright, still it was a time out for them a little bit. Susan swain when they escaped, did they go to northampton . Did they go back to Plymouth Notch . Where . Amity shlaes well, each place they escaped to, they found was often no escape because of the crowds. So Plymouth Notch, especially, people camped out, shopped and the neighbor created a tea house. Coolidge wasnt sure people should exploit the presidency in that way, but he wanted his neighbors to do well. Amity shlaes theres always this ambivalence, so they began to go on summer retreats. And you can see them in swampscott, mass one year in a house called white court. Or they went to the adirondacks, or they went to south dakota, or they went to wisconsin where they could sort of have a distance from the rest. Amity shlaes but always you want to remember, this was the president of saving and economy. So if he lived too opulently, what about that . And one of the interesting things at Plymouth Notch or in barre at the Vermont Historical society that you can find is the tension over the spending on food in the coolidge white house. Amity shlaes there was a housekeeper. She spent too much. Coolidge didnt like the way she spent. She went to the specialty stores. He thought she should go to the Piggly Wiggly and save. Soon, she was gone and they brought a new england lady, ms. Riley. Amity shlaes and i know cyndy had looked at her papers, too, and ms. Riley kept a record of every penny that was spent, and indeed, she spent less. And grace had to be the wife in all of this, had to appear to save with all these social demands. And what tension that must have caused for her. Cynthia bittinger i think it was good that they did this is the couple that did have to pay for everybodys food, but they had a diplomatic budget. They have an eertaining budget. And some historians said they entertained more than many president ial couples because they had this separate budget. Cynthia bittinger remember, this is a very middleclass couple coming into the presidency and the first ladyship. They dont have their own wealth, as weve seen with others. Susan swain chad crabtree on twitter asked. What was grace coodges religion . And was that an important part of her public life . Cynthia bittinger it was very important. She was raised as a methodist, but at the age of 15, she went this is in burlington, vermont she moved over to the congregational church. She thought the minister was very good there, and her family followed her to the church. Cynthia biinger she felt and said in her memoirs that we do have the articles that she wrote about herself that she was in a church from the time she was little. And also, i feel her faith was very much part of her character and got her through a lot of tough parts of life. Susan swain phil is in north hollywood, california and up next. Hi, phil. Phil hi there. Im so glad youre on. I was worried that you werent going to be on today. Im a big fan. Susan swain thank you. Phil my second call. Im really enjoying this. Just a comment, maybe a question about mrs. Coolidge. When they i always wondered if Sinclair Lewis maybe based his book, babbitt on Calvin Coolidges persona. I mean those people have, and even today, looked at him as the puritanical and maybe kind of pursed lipped, hardly speaking kind of myopic, very conservative viewpoint of life. Or even social reform and things like that and butt of jokes in vaudeville at the time. And the algonquin table with Dorothy Parker saying when mr. Coolidge passed away, how could they tell . You know . I mean those kinds of things. Did any of those kind of that persona or that idea of what Calvin Coolidge would look like to the general public permeate or into mrs. Coolidges consciousness, the jokes and Everything Else that were made of her husband at the time. Im just wondering, or if was she screened away from that, you know . Amity shlaes nobody could be totally screened away from that, but she asked a very good question, and she handled it wonderfully. So you want to imagine Sinclair Lewis was being the colbert or something, the Rachel Maddow to them. And they handled it very well. Amity shlaes most of the time, coolidge didnt really like Sinclair Lewis picking on him so much. And in one column, he wrote subsequent to the presidency, you can see him complaining about Sinclair Lewis, this author who was after him. I think grace just looked away. She had a great grace in that way. She just looked past it and wasnt so worried about what people said about her husband most of the time. Susan swain two other questions, and one of them, people keep asking us questions about in many of the photograph we have seen her picture, with the dog and dogs, including her official portrait. Terry on twitter asked, tell us about the coolidge animals at the white house including the chow dog. Cynthia bittinger well, yes, there was blackberry and there was terrible tim, those were the chows. The coolidges just loved their animals. As a matter of fact, i even brought with me the list that grace typed of her animals that she had. And the names, the nicknames, and who they were. Cynthia bittinger she loved her animals but i think the best story is rebecca raccoon, because rebecca, the raccoon, was sent to the coolidges for thanksgiving dinner. And both the coolidges being animal lovers were outraged at this and decided to raise rebecca at the white house. Cynthia bittinger now, this is the only time i read that the staff was not terribly happy, because rebecca was sitting in the bath of the first ladys room, throwing the soap up, climbing the curtains. It wasnt the best for the staff, but grace just loved rebecca. She even sent rebecca out to the black hills to play with her. It was quite something. Cynthia bittinger but rebecca got rambunctious, it was a bit too much and they got reuben to come to the white house and settle rebecca down. But they both escaped different times, even though grace designed a house for rebecca on the grounds. So they eventually were taken to the zoo. Susan swain ok. How did she square the furs that we see her wearing . Cynthia bittinger she did wear quite a bit of fur, yes. How did she square with that . I dont know. Im sure she didnt. She just thought that was fun. Susan swain one other passion, baseball. Amity shlaes it was said, she was rabid. She loved baseball. She loved baseball more than the president. And i think she loved that it lifted him up. I noticed when i was writing about some of his great battles, say over taxes or fiscal problems or vetoing that he had to do, grace would take him to a baseball game. And you know, thats what they did in washington. And later, when she was alone, she went to baseball with her friends in boston herself, subsequently. Susan swain she was a red sox fan . Amity shlaes she was a red sox fan. Susan swain but here, they watch the washington senators as they were known back then. Susan swain how far into their months in office after the death of president harding did they decide that they would, that he would seek the presidency himself in 1924 . Amity shlaes i think that was pretty automatic. But the moment where it became clear he could do it for, you know, among the other politicians was when he gave a long speech, like the state of the union speech around december of 23. Amity shlaes and the speech was so good, everyone knew. And right before that speech, as cyndy knows, the president was particularly cross because he knew this was a key speech. If he did it well, wow, he might truly be the candidate in 24, and he was. Amity shlaes suddenly, there was respect for him. You see it in the letters of the senator from indiana, of the other senators across the nation. This man knows how to lead, to lay out an agenda, to take some risks, to focus, not just to take rash risks but to focus and hit the risk. In that case, the risk was tax, cutting taxes, so that was his civil war. His big campaign was tax cuts and it was all laid out in that speech. Susan swain before the election happened, a great tragedy struck the coolidge family, but we havent really set the stage for it. The coolidges brought two sons to the white house. How old were they . And tell us about their two sons. Cynthia bittinger they were teenagers. Actually, when calvin was vicepresident , they were still at home in northampton. And as i mentioned before, that was difficult. Cynthia bittinger so grace and calvin conferred with admiral boone who was the assistant white house physician and some others, and decided that the boy should go to Mercersburg Academy in mercersburg, pennsylvania. And that would only be a couple of hours from the white house, and maybe she could see them a little bit. Cynthia bittinger and also, after talking to admiral boone, she felt it would be a good place to have the boys. They would have good leadership with them, and they would become fine young men. So that was pretty much the decision. Susan swain and their sons names were john and calvin jr. . Cynthia bittinger john was born in 1906; calvin, 1908. So they were fairly close together. She felt she really raised them at home, because calvin commuted to the General Court in massachusetts, which was in boston, and shes the one who put out the train tracks. Shes the one who built the little roadster. Shes the one who played with the boys. Cynthia bittinger a their father came home on weekends and often i interviewed the president and first ladys son a couple of times. He said, i was supposed to be quiet, cyndy, when my father came home, but he insisted we wear shoes with metal toes, and often we woke him up, so it was difficult for us. Susan swain well, the two boys came home for some of their vacation to the white house, come to the white house that summer. And thats really when tragedy struck. Were going to learn a little bit more about what happened with the coolidge sons on our next video. Susan swain begin video clip kate bradley lets head into the vault where we keep specific things about the coolidge family. Grace coolidges earlier life before her marriage to Calvin Coolidge, as well as documents about her relationship with her family, specifically, her sons and her grandchildren. Kate Bradley Grace was not only a loving wife. She was also a loving mother. And we have some wonderful correspondence that documents that. In 1922, grace wrote to the head of the Mercersburg Academy where both of her sons were. And she writes, is there a way in which we can arrange for calvin jr. To have a soft boiled egg for breakfast for a time without great inconvenience . Calvin jr. Just had a little minor surgery and grace was very worried about his health. Kate bradley the other letter we have is written by calvin jr. This was written in 1924. Like many sons, he talks about his schooling which wasnt going too well; his clothing, which needed updating because he was growing out of it; and his plans for travelling back to washington d. C. To visit his mom and dad. Kate bradley and the letter reads, i hope you are well and happy. I know you are happy. With love, calvin. Heres an interesting little side note. Obviously, he had forgotten to add something in the letter. Send me some socks. And its sad, too, because we see it as basically the last documented letter that we have before calvin jr. Suddenly passes away while in washington d. C. Less than a month later. Kate bradley shortly after his death, people wrote to the president and first lady in the white house, sending their condolences. And as was common at the time, grace and calvin acknowledged their sympathies by sending letters in reply, thanking them for their condolences and their sympathy. And these letters were always bordered in black as a way of showing that they were in mourning, and we actually have quite a few of those letters in our collection. Kate Bradley Grace and calvin had two sons. John was the older and calvin jr. Was the younger. John coolidge did not die young and lived to a very old age. We have a wonderful letter from john to his mother on her birthday. And its a wonderful letter where he just described his love. Kate bradley dearest mother, just to let you know im thinking of you on your birthday, and loving you as no boy has ever loved his mother. Kate bradley john and grace had a very close relationship throughout their lives. He never really said much about how the passing of his brother affected the family. He was very quiet on that score. But you can tell from the letters between john and grace until her passing. There were letters many times a year, and they were very, very close. So whether that was increased by calvin jrs passing or not, theres really no way of knowing, although i would assume that is the case. Susan swain so, cyndy here that he died but we didnt hear the story of how he died. Cynthia bittinger the boys loved tennis, and some historians think grace taught them tennis when they were little, which kind of makes sense. Anyhow, the white house had tennis courts. The boys played on the tennis courts. This was fun on vacations. Cynthia bittinger they werent there that much at the white house, but one day calvin jr. Went out without any socks and he got a blister on his toe from playing tennis. And nothing was made of this, but when assistant white house physician, admiral boone arrived one day to play tennis again, he noticed that calvin jr. Was quite ill and had a fever. And he did look him over and found out that there were streaks of red on his leg. Cynthia bittinger so admiral boone was alerted right away to do something about this. He called in military advisers, military physicians, and he called in civilian physicians, and the family knew this was quite serious. Cynthia bittinger and they also took samples and they found out it was first staph, and then it was septicemia. And even today, you can die of septicemia. So this went so quickly, and i think calvin and grace just were shocked that anyone could lose a son this way, its just so innocent and yet so fast. Susan swain and to your point, we just saw a notes saying, send me some socks. And it was his lack of socks, but it started this all in motion. And when you read of the death, it was a very painful death for their son, and they watched all of this. Susan swain so what happened to the first couple after their sons death . How did the president respond . How did the first lady respond . Amity shlaes you know, you want to remember that they were not the only one in this period who lose a son. You look around, it was a much more common event charles doss would be the vicepresident who lost a son. T. R. Lost a son in world war i. All around them were people who had been through this singular experience that no parent would wish. Lincoln had lost a son and there are echoes of lincoln in the way this was handled. And you know, the paper boys called extra. Amity shlaes the carts rolled with the flowers. They set up the stations in the white house. People came to call. And then the train, you know, went to, took the sad cargo to vermont where calvin was buried. It was all, it was new and horrible and very familiar, a very american event. Susan swain theres a quote of Calvin Coolidge about his reaction. When he died, he said, the power and the glory of the presidency went with him. Some biographers suggest that in the time afterwards that he really went into a state of depression, that he was working shorter days and that it was grace who was the more stable of the two. Did your research tell you that . Amity shlaes no. Actually, there was a very good biography that posits that by mr. Gilbert. And he said, this is the story of yes, but Calvin Coolidge could have completed his presidency but his son died. Anyway, it was terrible. Amity shlaes but i see it as more of like abraham lincoln. A terrible loss which drove the parents nearly insane but still, but yes lincoln prosecuted his war after the loss of the son; coolidge pursued his policy plans, was the president , he did good things, notwithstanding the loss of his presidency. More joyless as he notes in his autobiography, but still that perseverance. So, no, coolidge did not give up, and grace did not give up. Cynthia bittinger i think that the difference between the two is interesting, though. When there were holidays, calvin would know who wasnt at the table. Grace took joy with whoever was at the table. They just were very different that way, the way they handled it. Susan swain bill is watching us in bloomington, delaware, and youre up next. Hi, bill. Bill two quick questions. Is it correct historically that the third floor where we now know as the solarium and the other rooms on the third floor was built by the coolidges because there was a roof leak. Did that originate during the Coolidge Administration . And did that occur during his full term or prior to him being elected to a full term in 1924 . My second question is, probably later on the show that id like to know since mrs. Coolidge outlived president coolidge for so many years, did she develop a friendship that lou henry hoover, eleanor roosevelt, bess truman and Maime Eisenhower . And did she ever go back to the white house . Thank you all. Susan swain thank you so very much. Brief answers to both please because we will talk about it a little bit later. Amity shlaes we know that there was a solarium built, and she retreated to it in the end of the first full term of president coolidge, that is toward the end of his presidency. And i dont know whether she visited with succeeding first ladies. Cynthia bittinger yes, she did. But back to the roof leak, yes. The roof had to be reinforced, it was cracking, and they redid the family quarter as well and put in more closets, and that kind of thing. Screeria nigeria