Be navigate. This is just over 90 minutes. P good afternoon, everyone. My name is michael orrick, director of nyu washington, d. C. Its my pleasure to welcome you to todays event. Nyu washington, d. C. And the American Association of University Women will present a series of panelled conversations through october 2017 around aauws stand up to sexisms campaign. Join us live or in person to learn more about how to fight gender bias. This is the second panel in this series entitled the f word. How to be a feminist in the workplace. Todays discussion will focus on the challenges women face while navigating film nashville at work. Its my pleasure to introduce you the introducer for the panel. [ applause ] great. Thanks, michael. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today for our second discussion, our second panel series from both nyu washington, d. C. And aauw. As michael said, this second panel is titled the fword. How to be a memphis in the workplace. The fword were referring to here is a little different than what you might be thinking. Were referring to feminism. Im embarrassed to say that i didnt admit to myself that i was a feminist until my snore ye sophomore year of high school, which is shocking considering the amount of time i spent on the Basketball Court to prove to myself and others that i was skblu as good as the guys. Like many women, i was afraid of labeling myself as a feminist for fear of being jungd. Years later, i came to my senses and i realized the importance of feminism. Particularly intersectional feminism. In college i ended up majoring in womens studies and i actually brought an aauw student to campus to fight for women equality. Now working for aauw, a womens advocacy organization, i have the honor of fighting for womens rights every single day. Other women i know are not so lucky. Aauw created our hashtag stand up to sex. Campaign to encourage women and allies to stand against sex ichlg and to share how and why they do that in their local communities. Here is a video that has helped aauw spread this important message. Well, good. I think this page is set. Do you agree . I agree. Definitely agree. Ok. Great. Then lets move on. Page 5 . Cloir. Dont be so emotional. Women arent natural leaders. You should smile more. Lets face it. Women have heard it all. Especially in the workplace. Aauws Research Report barriers and bias, the status of women in leadership explains that gendered micro immigrations like these contribute to the gender leadership gap. Even seemly small sexist comments hurt womens confidence and devalue women work. And every day sexism doesnt stand alone. It p often comes cup md with ablism, racism, ageism, are transphobia, handle februaomoph religious discrimination, you name it. What can we do . How can we combat sexism at work and yoond . Aauw exists for women to push past sexism on campus, in their local communities, and in the workplace. One of the hurdles of addressing sexism is first identifying it and then starting a conversation to stop it. Being a memphis and being a professional are not mutually exclusive. Our experts on our panel today are going to share some insight into how everyone regardless of their gender identity can be a part of the change. Now it is my honor to introduce the amazing incredible panel that weve assembled for today. And im going to start first with our moderator for the afternoon, nicole kyroga, general something of telemundo washington, d. C. And richmond, virginia. [ applause ] thank you. Next we have jennifer dezar, writing and founder of get bullish. Com, a website for career feminists. [ applause ] next we have dr. Avis jones deweaver art r and founder of the institute for women. [ applause ] next we have patricia valloy. [ applause ] and last with you not least we have suzanna weiss, a free lance writer. [ applause ] thank you everyone. Nicole. Thank you. P good afternoon. The thank you for being here. Its such a pleasure to be representing telemundo and to be with such an established panel. So n good afternoon. We also appreciate everyone thats joining us via live stream and watching on cspan. So welcome. Its wonderful to see such an amazing interest in this very important and critical topic. So really lets get right down to it. Being alfeminist in the workplace today. One of the main n challenges of being a feminist in the workplace is dealing with the daily occurrences of sexism. As we just said, sexism in the workplace can take many forms coupled with ablism, racism, ageism, sizism, transphobia, homophobia and more. Its important to remember that they can look different to each one of us as we are all from different sbler sectional identiti identities. However, we want the workplace to be a more accepting place. Today well be discussing the challenges that each of us face in the workplace from microrow aggressions to harassment and how really to overcome them. Suzanna im going to start with you. Youve written on jenlder issues, sex and relationship and womens health. Youve covered many topics relative to this panel. But first help us put workplace sexism in context, could you explain more than gendered microrow address . Sure. Micro aggression is something thats not very obvious form of oppression but in the workplace it might be Something Like using phrases like it guys or in the Tech Industry i saw a lot glifrg out only male shirts, Little Things that make women feel excluded, o or microrow can be be anything. It could be microaggression, bu gendered microaggression would be a small action that people do all the time without realizing it that make women feel like theyre lesser, or other oppressed genders. From the way that you just said it, this is something that immediately i can tell you happened maybe three times today. Is that right . So something that happens and were unconsciously unaware, i would say, right . Patricia, can you tell us about how youve incorporated your latino and stem identities, or latinista, or stemminista. I personally never had a problem with merging all three. I always felt like there was no way i could put aside my latino identity, by identity as a professional in engineering and my identity as a feminism and i always wanted to incorporate all those three things into my activism. I did have a hard time, though, finding a place that i think understood what that meant or looked like. So when it came time to join activist circles, it was like, its a feminist thing, or this is for latinos. I had to carve out my own space. I started doing it by writing my own blog and writing about those intersections. Never belittling one thing or the other. This is all that i am and im going to talk about it as it happens to me. Little by little, it happens. I deal with feminine those are the places that accept my identities, to allow me to talk about it, to press them and to allow me to be my full self. Thats greatest. Do you find that youre often having to choose one space or another . I know you said youve identified your own space, but when you go into the workplace, do you have to choose what space to walk in . It does happen often. Id lie if i say that im all the time all three unashamed. Its hard for me to be a fullout latino feminist in my workplace and walk about racism and microaggressions and all the things i would talk about in feminist circles. So i talk about stem issues, statistics, women in stem, people of color in stem, and i try to use numbers. Its a way to kind of bring a little bit of that, a little bit of my latino and my feminist activism into the stem world. And likewise, it happens when im in feminist circle, i have to think about how i speak, the language that i use, and whats going to get peoples attention. Thats really all that matters, but its part of being anactivist. I feel like if im not making an effort to get my audience interested in what im trying to teacher, then im not doing a very good job. I think its kind of an art to pull together who you need to be at that moment to heighten or further your agenda. So congratulations on that. Ill move over to dr. Avis. Hi. You are diversity, equity, and inclusion solutionist and a career strategist. You have built your career helping women achieve their professional goals as well as their personal ones. It doesnt appear that theres much of a demand for mens career strategists. [ laughter ] and this profession would look much more different, i would imagine, for men clients. So what does the need for your profession, in other words, helping women, what does that say about institutionalized sexism in the workplace . It says that its institutionalized, its normalcy. We talked about microaggressions and the reality of conscious bias and how thats in our culture. When people think of the word leader, most people, the image they have in their mind, its a man, and more specifically, typically a white male. So when we talk about women being able to pierce through that cultural parra dime and assert themselves as leaders in the workplace, it takes a little bit more maneuvering and advance thought than what men have to put into it, so its this extra burden that women bear when it comes to being able to navigate their way to leadership or just navigate in maledominated professions. There are different skills associated with that, that women have to take on this extra burden to learn and be good at in order to be able to achieve the positions that they are well qualified for and deserve to be in, in the first place. Jennifer, as a Business Owner in a feminist space, it looks like you operate in almost an entirely female world. All of your employees, conference attendees, consumers, fans, mostly all women. So do you still encounter sexism in that area . First off, i would like to say what a great pleasure that is. The first decadeplus of my career was not like that. And so, yeah, existing in a world made up almost entirely of women, at least professionally, is fantastic. Its refreshing, like a cool feminist beverage. Never heard that, thats great. So one thing that i really enjoy about it, for instance, theres been a lot of writing about how women apologize too much. Like we should all stop saying sorry. Theres a Chrome Extension that you can get, that changes im sorry to something else, like millenials are snake people. Changes it so we dont apologize so much. But heres the thing, are women apologizing too much . Not if everybodys doing it. Canadians are apologizing a lot, and its not a problem as long as they stay in canada. Its a problem when one comes here and apologizes because not everybodys in the same system. When you say, have a good day, thats not really, you know. There are so many niceties that we engage in that are not intended to give a literal meaning. So when im walking in an office with my two employees, its an office warehouse, so my Company Sells kitschy feminist goods, and socks with swears on them. And were bumping up against each other a lot, so its constantly, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, and everyones doing it, and its super not a problem. When you say sorry, its not like, i dont feel like i deserve space in the world, im a bad, person, i have low selfconfidence. No, its like saying, sorry, is like, i would like to keep getting along with you awesomely. Sometimes when you give somebody money for a product, you say thank you. The person you bought the donut from, you each say thank you to each other four times. And nobody has low confidence. Its just a social signal that youre saying, i would like this traction to go smoothly, and i would like to workplace to be pleasant and everythings good. So while i do feel like not all good are the same, but nevertheless, in an allfemale workplace, i do find at least that aspect con forms to what you might expect. I enjoy that. I do have to do business with men sometimes. It does happen. Occasionally men come into the office and theyre like, its warm in here. Im like, yeah, its 74. Im not going to wear a sweater in the summer in my own office. Im not doing that. But its nice to have kind of a centering, like women are the default here. In my online store, we sell womens socks, so i didnt bother to say womens in front of the socks, then i started to sell a few for mens, like for gifts. So i started getting male customers buying the socks and assuming if they didnt have a gender on them, they must be mens socks. And i got Customer Service emails, like i bought these socks, and some of them are womens socks. And i was like, what makes you think they wouldnt be . You bought socks from a feminist web store. Process to return. But women are the default where i am and i feel like a little bit of that in the world is a nice thing. I have to say, i agree with all of that. And the conversation usually sways to how women hold women back. And while youre right, i know, while youre right on the saying, i do that too, i say, thank you, or im sorry, im sorry, im sorry, and i get told, dont, you dont have to apologize. Thats a great way of saying it. Its not a weakness. Just a social way of getting along. That men should learn. I agree. My question to you is that for the purpose of identifying things we women can stop doing to each other, do you find in your female space there are things that we are doing to each other subconsciously or not that we shouldnt be doing, that were holding each other back and not really knowing were doing it . I think i just pick good women. Good. Good, good. Can i tell you a little anecdote about the last time i tried to have a business meeting with a dude. I do have an anecdote. This happened. One thing nice about being in a feminist workplace. I do business with men, but i dont need it. Theres a huge difference going into a Job Interview and i need this job to move my career forward, rather than this guy wants to be my client, should go like that. So i was having coffee with a guy, he wanted me to teach a class in london. Thought it would be a cool opportunity, sounds nice. Ill just skip to the good part. He asked me a bunch of pointed questions about where my child was yeah, that happened. Im like, its a coughffee meet. There are so many perfectly safe places that a child could be. So that was very strange. After that and a bunch of other bizarre personal questions, he then went on to say, i love working with mothers. Anytime someone says it sounds like its set up to be a compliment, but by definition, its going to be like i love working with, identity group, nothing good can come from that. He was like, i love working with mothers. And i was like, please tell me why. Heres the answer, because they expect so little and theyre so grateful. I cant even begin to comment on that comment. That really happened, and it was nice to just never talk to that person again. Well, being that this is made for tv, were just going to move on from that. But thank you for the example which is really very true in our everyday lives. And so ill open this up, the next couple of questions for the panel. Again, the title of this discussion is the f word, how to be a feminist in the workplace. Of course the f word, notwithstanding the last story is here to say feminist how and why its outwardly identifying as a no. Why is it that when we identify ourselves as feminists, this is still so taboo in todays workplace . Its almost frowned upon if you say youre a feminist . I guess ill start. Only because im at total opposite of you. I work in a male dominated field where most of my meetings are devoid of other women but myself, and usually devoid of color. So i found myself afraid to use the word feminist. I think i went years without saying. When i have to travel for a presentation or a panel, im going to talk about women in engineering. And i got tired of feeling like i was walking on egg shells around the language. Hi to kind of question, like, why is it that im scared . I started realizing that i was just worried they would see me as militant, angry. I thought i would be treated differently. I thought for sure, theyre like, well, if shes a feminist, then shes probably talking about us. Believe me, they think i talk about them all the time. So i had to almost get this inner strength to be like, i dont care what you think about me, i dont care what you think i do. In my activism. I dont care that you read my writing, because im not saying anything that you dont also experience every day, because a lot of it is coming from your mouth. A lot of it. So little by little, i learned how to weave that kind of word into conversations. Id be like, this weekend im going to go to a feminist conference. And theyre like, oh, are you . Yes, i am. And im like, do you have daughters . It was kind of like oh, i think your wife would really enjoy it. You should tell her about it. And kind of weave it into that. And i would get a lot of side eye, a lot of sighs, a lot of concerned looks. And eventually just became like, oh, thats just the feminist in the office. And i was absolutely okay with it. And it felt freeing to finally be like, this is who i am. And i did find that they were a lot more careful around me after i came out as a feminist. I came out, you know, it was like this big deal. I remember thinking about it the night before, like im going to use the word feminist in a sentence in my office today. But, you know, after that, i made like i changed something. They definitely thought about their actions a lot more. You know, when they would Say Something sexist in front of me, like i just had to look at them, and theyre like, okay, i know, i got it, i apologize. I was like, yeah, you should. You should. It was just that scolding look all the time. And i didnt want to become everybodys feminist teacher in the office, but it felt very powerful. I think that youre gaining the respect right at the beginning, where youre not as sure if you want to come out and say Something Like that, you know, what does it mean to them, what does it mean for me. But ultimately heightening awareness in the office is exactly what we want, right . And so i think i congratulate you on your effort. I want to ask what your experience with that has been as well. I think people are so afraid to call themselves a feminist, because a lot of people dont know what feminism means. When ive said it, people will say, but you seem pretty feminine, or oh, what your problem with men . So if peoples image of a feminist is somebody who hates men and is out to get everyone, then of course theyre not going to like it if you say youre a feminist. So part of it is educating people that feminism means you believe in equalities and that does mean men will have to give up some of their privilege. You dont have to water it down and say, not all men are against women. You shouldnt have to do it. Sexism exists, even if its not all men. So we shouldnt have to cushion our language, but we should we just need more awareness that feminism is about equality and things arent equal now because many men believe they are. Once they can see that actually things arent equal, theyre not looking to become female supremacists, theyre just looking to have an even playing field. Dr. Avis, on a very random note, have you ever been asked to plan a Holiday Party or get a cake or something with birthday cards in an Office Environment . I havent. But its not that much of an unusual thing. A number of women do experience that as if they are the sort of office mommy sort of role that they are expected to fill. And its important to make sure that people respect you as the professional that you are. To have that be the default burden once again of the requisite woman in the office once again shows the pervasiveness of institutionalized sexism in the culture. Though its nothing wrong if one wants to do that, and thats your voluntary choice every once in a while, really its very disappointing to see office cultures where thats the expectation, if you will. And the norm. And the norm. So no birthday cakes for us. Jen, going back to you as a Business Owner in your space, it looks like you operate in an almost entirely female environment. Outside of the problems that we discussed, how do you see moving forward . Are you looking to implement men into this to create a reverse balance as we are talking about it as we are talking about making everything equal, if you will . How do you feel about that . How do you see that . Does there need to be more space for men at my i dont know how to take that question. You know, at such as a time as i were hiring, i would consider male applicants as i would be legally bound to do, but, yeah, i feel like so much of the rest of the world is not the way my space is, you know, i feel like things are good. Things are good. Actually the conference that i run so far has been in the neighborhood of like 55 people. So i run a small conference for feminists who are interested in careers and entrepreneurship. And it has occurred to me, there comes a certain size where i think that, you know, i will open that conference and say, like, sure, dudes come at it, if you really want to attend a conference on this topic. But, yeah, i think right now im really excited to just carve out a little space. Have you ever caught yourself expressing internalized sexism toward another woman . And this goes across the panel. I know if i stop and think about it, there are moments, not often, but there are moments where i might have some kind of a feeling toward another woman that i maybe am not always proud of, but certainly i can take back and, you know, review with myself and then change it, which is the only way that we will create change. I wonder if you could share some vulnerable moment where you had tigs a reaction or thought or feeling towards another woman that we could all learn from, know that we are not alone in having some negative responses, but that we can change in doing so . Well, i do think that there are moments, particularly when youre in a if youre either in an all female environment, or in an environment where theres a lot of women on the team, that it is easy to maybe fall into the stereotypal trob that women cant get along. And you come into that thinking there might be cattiness, all the stereotypes that are placed upon women. So i think its important that when we find ourselves in those situations, that we try to not sort of fall to that fall into that trope. And try to take the time to understand each person as an individual and their individual personalities. Ive certainly experienced situations in which i have felt a bit of tension and i didnt really understand was it something that was generational that was going on. Was it something that was going on having to do with just the different experiences that women might come to a specific instance with different backgrounds . Or it was this issue of this woman having a feeling that she needed to be sort of like the top woman in this specific space . And sometimes its those tensions there, it is a reality sometimes around this issue of oppressed populations where there are certain instances where you might have an individual who may tend to want to stand out as the preeminent one in that space and almost sort of buttressed the oppressing entity in order to be the one that stands out. So when youre in those situations, whether its by race, whether its by sex, its a delicate situation to navigate. But i think ultimately, the solution per se, if there is one to that, is to take a step back and understand ways in which you can connect with people on an individual level, rather than trying to subscribe to the overarching paradigm where one might want to fall into this notion to explain it all away with the already existing negative stereotypes surrounding women. Can i just ask, i guess in my environment its the olttotal opposite. Even in male dominated fields, but when a female colleague was brought into the team, you think id be so excited, finally im not the only woman here, and i found myself having a little tension with her, a little bit of jealousy, a little bit of competition, and it bothered me. It bothered me a lot. To the point that i need to kind of write this out and figure out what is going on here. Why do i see her and only her as my competition, more so than anybody else on my team . And what i think was happening is that, in the engineering field, theres just not enough, like female role models in very high positions. So the way that i saw it, i perceived the situation, theres only space for one of us at the top. Like theyre not going to promote both of us. Were not both going to be successful here, and i expected our male bosses to look at us and pick one, right . Youre going to pick the one girl to make it. And it was not necessary for me to think that way, but i would imagine that thats how they feel too. Because you really do, and when you do see the positions, board rooms, engineer, theres usually only one woman. So you start visualizing where your career is going and thinking, like, i gotta push her aside or else im not going to make it. And it was painful for me because i feel, you know, im talking and activist circumstance elds and we need more of us in engineering, we need to get paid better, we have so much to contribute. And then to my own colleague, i have this attitude with her. And we both, with each other, i felt it very much, and we never wanted to work together. And it was very short, until finally i had to force myself, you know what, shes your colleague, youre going to talk to her, youre going to be her friend. Youre going to be her work mate and it got better from there, but i had to kind of unlearn a lot of that, of what i feel is like my role in this maledominated world to just be like tough all the time and scratch everybody out of the way until i make it. Because it really is better when we do connect, when we are friends, when we help each other. I do think that we climb a lot faster when that happens. First of all please, go ahead. The sad reality is that your perception to some degree may have been correct. Whats really necessary is that there needs to be a cohort of individuals, not just one or two. Because that leads to the situation where there is this feeling of competition. And often times, not based on theory. Right . Often times based on your experience in terms of what youve seen, where there is usually really in practice, this idea of just having one. One woman, one person of color. And thats it. And so that sort of sets up this competitive environment from the beginning. So companies can do a better job. Absolutely. Theres more than one woman, theres more than two women, more than three people of color that would be qualified to do this work. And Companies Need to stop being lazy, im just going to say it. It doesnt take that much effort to find qualified people and a diverse array of qualified people, and they need to invest in that, because quite frankly, this country is changing, demographically, we are quickly turning over into a majority people of color nation. And if Companies Want to be able to relate to the poppingds that they are seeking to serve, they need to do a better job of making sure they have diverse leadership at the top. You almost took the words out of my mouth. First, thank you for sharing a vulnerability. Its not easy to admit some kind of wrongdoing in your thinking or maybe youre not as proud of it. So i appreciate you sharing that. I think it allows us all to move a step forward together. And infrastructurally although internally, the organization was setting you up for almost not failure, but a level of competition that is not going to bring you forward in the sense that of course youre going to feel that way. You are the only woman, which shouldnt be done from the beginning, so therefore i appreciate your sharing that, but i would say the same thing, that company and all orgd organizations need to be a little bit more responsible from the ground up. Im going to switch over to something very basic and that is our appearance. As women, we go into an organization, and they have a formal dress code. They tell you how to wear, what to wear, not to wear. More or less. But theres always that unspoken rule of what you can and cannot wear, is the skirt too short, is the top too low . What are we looking at . How is your hair . Tell me about your experience and we can start this way. How has your experience been with what you choose to wear and how you are perceived in your organization, or in your circles . I havent had a personal experience with that, but one way i get out of that is working from home, where i get to decide, and ive talked to other women who say the same thing, that thats one of the reasons working from home has become so popular. Finally, theyre so relieved they dont have to pile on makeup, or feel like they have to worry about how they dress, or being judged by how they looked. Of course it would be ideal if workplaces didnt make women feel like they had to work from home, but ive noticed that thats one way women especially feel liberated by that trend. Anybody else . I feel like i could write a book about the subject. Oh, man. I had a really hard time finding my groove in terms of what i could wear as a professional woman in engineering. Some days i was on a construction site in hard hat and boots. And another day i was in the Office Wearing like a pencil skirt and high heels. And it was difficult because i didnt have, like i said, any role models to look up to. So i dont know who to emulate. And i remember the first few months, fresh out of college, my first job, i was like, wearing business suits. And i hate suits. Like with a passion. I dont even like pants. Like, i swear. I dont like wearing blouses that are illfitting and im trying to copy my male bosses because i was like, well, i dont know what to do. And then little by little, i was like, i was suffocating and i felt like i had to bring a little bit of my own personality there. And it took a lot. I remember coworkers being like, oh, youre always so colorful. And i was like, thats not a compliment, but thank you. Like i knew that they were trying to Say Something about my clothing. And i would have, you know, females, like other women in the company also remark on my clothing, like, you should be careful, you work with a lot of guys. Be careful with your skirt, its too tight, its too short, with your cleavage, and its so humiliating and i had to persevere and be like, no, i dont care. Thats their problem, not my problem. And just kind of like fashion one, because i care that much. It sounds a little bit naive and a little bit silly, but for me, i think being able to dress how i wanted to dress and wear prints and skirts and high heels and wear my hair how i wanted to do it, in this male dominated space, it felt like a rebellion. That was my first way of saying, im a feminist, i dont care, im going to change this culture, whether you like it or not, even if its just me doing it. So i had to do it. It was almost like a personal victory. Until eventually i became like the weirdo in the office like wearing big skirts with flowers on them and flowers in my hair. And i dont care. Because i have to go to the field, ill pull out of my desk my work boots, my jeans and be like, lets go, lets do this. So as long as im prepared, i have no shame. But it was so difficult, it really was. Its very interesting. Because for me, its been less of a wardrobe issue than it has been a hair issue. And i think this is a reality for a lot of black women in particular. I know, for example when i first started, because ive had my locks for 19 years now. I know when i started them, my mother was petrified. Okay . So i started them when i was in graduate school. And she was like, oh, my god, youll never get a job. And i told her, at that point, if an employer does not want to hire me because of whats on my head rather than whats in my head, thats clearly a place i wouldnt want to work in the first place. What i have found in practice for me, and a lot of it has to do with my industry, in the nonprofit space, think thanks, i own my own company. It might have been completely different in a corporate environment. But for me, it has not been an inhibitor for me personally, given where ive chosen to work. But there are disturbing things that we see thats going on in broader culture. We know there was recently a Court Decision that said that it was okay for employers to dismiss applicants because they have locks specifically. We know that there was a period of time in which some of the armed forces were forcing black women not to be able to wear their hair naturally, and there were some changes that were made to change that ruling, but that was an initial ruling. So were even seeing, for example, we saw with bill oreilly sort of insulting Maxine Waters about her hair, so there seems to be this issue, particularly as it relates to black women and hair in the workplace and broader culture, related to various microaggressions and macro aggressions that can be not only disturbing, but also prehibit their ability to get a job in the first place. And thats very disturbing to me. It sounds like in your experience, though, youve been able to kind of move around some of these more the problems that you would have in a corporation where what you wear, what your hair looks like, although you did mention the hair, but for the most part, nonprofit, thinktanks, in areas where you might not be dealing with the most biased issues, what have you experienced personally that has affected you in your professional career . For me, its an issue of intersectionalism. Part of my career has been solidly within black spaces. Part of my career has been solidly within women spaces. What i find, both of those spaces, the things that we work towards are very similar. The two do not intertwine well in reality. Black spaces largely tend to focus on maledominated issues, and the reality is that womens spaces largely typically focus on white women dominated issues. So there really arent that many spaces that i believe in a very thought out and indepth and strategic way focus on the needs specifically of women of color. So thats part of what ive been able to do in my career, to try to create that space and expand that. But that is a space where i feel like needs to be a lot more work. That to me is the part of this feminism at place work or gender diversity work they believe still needs a lot of attention paid to. Because when you look specifically at leadership, for example, yes, women are underrepresented as it relates to leaders in the workplace. But to the degree that we are seeing some penetration in that space, its almost exclusively white women. So there needs to be a sense of camaraderie among women, period, where were not just satisfied with a woman being in that space if the only women in that space are white women. White women need to take up the flag to say, im not satisfied with this definition of gender diversity. If gender diversity is not diverse, its not truly gender diversity and we need to work towards that to get there. Thank you, thats a really good point. [ applause ] anybody else . I love it. Very well put. And going past did you want to stay something . Sure. I was going to speak to the appearance question. Yes, please. It took me a lot of time in my early life to figure out how to even remotely dress myself for class reasons, actually. I was the first person in my family to go to college. And i went to dartmouth and it was very ll bean. So much ll bean. [ laughter ] so i had these snow boots that arent really snow boots, from the jcpenney clearance section and they leaked within two weeks. Because you cant wear jcpenney, glossy plastic boots in a snowstorm in new hampshire. So it took me a long time to figure out how to dress myself and become acceptable, you know, in the workplace and kind of pull it together and not look, mm, ill stop talking there. But i feel like that was a long time ago, and i now, like, i genuinely enjoying wearing things that are really appropriate in workplaces. Thats just my personal taste. I just had a baby. So im delighted to be wearing real pants with a zipper, its fantastic. But to that question, in terms of what kind of appearances are appropriate in a workplace, i feel like, because this is just a i genuinely enjoy dressing like i am now, i think people sometimes expect me to think that everyone should dress like that or look like that. At this stage of my life, i think ive reached the peak, in terms that nobody gives me any junk for what i look like, but no longer really, as sexy as i was when i was 25. I dont get any bs about that. I can go unnoticed. What that means to me, where im in a conversation where someone says, i cant believe what shes wearing. They expect me to agree. I feel like its my job not to do that. Like people wearing stilettos at a science conference. And im like, why could you not wear stilettos at a science conference . Please give me a reason. So thats where the appearance question kind of lies for me now. Very well put and thank you for sharing that. Moving past the physical appearance, there is also the behavioral situations where, ladies, as successful leaders, you have a place at different tables, where your voice is often asked for, when your opinion is asked for, and your voice will be heard. What about when you experience situations where a male will interrupt you, where they will tell you a lewd joke, where they will demean you in some way, but not a very obvious way, but just that touch point where he kind of knocks you down in terms of your power in his eyes. What kind of situation have you experienced with that . I write about this a lot. Actually. This is the number one issue, i think i deal with in presentations that i gave and articles that i write. And so one of the most effective strategies that i encourage people to get started with right away and speaking up for other women when this happens. And i find that a lot of marginalized people in a workplace are really good of keeping track of who they recent. Theres a running tally. Like these people have done something bad to me, and peas theme have done something good to me. So if you can jump into a conversation, i can see that you did like lindsays idea, and youre attempting to steal it for yourself. But give that credit back to where it belongs. Or, i want to hear what she had to say, lets get back to her. So bringing the floor back to other women, if you can do that publicly in front of bosses, it can also happen in an email. You can send it to a group, or do a boss, to a manager that said, hey, i wanted to throw in a little more information in favor of tamaras idea or Something Like that. Public le giving credit to other women. People will notice that, they will remember it, hopefully theyll repay the favor. While i also recommend speaking up for yourself, this is a lot easier than that, even. This workplace sbruppinginte that happens to all of us, the one that bugs me the most is when im percenting. Talking about people of color and women in stem, and without a doubt, the first person to raise their hand is always a guy and im just like and i went with it for a long time. And the questions were never questions. They were always like anecdotes. Like faculty members love to be the first one to be like, well, actually, in our department, we have three female professors, and im like, thats fantastic, dude. And im like, tell me the number of women that graduate. It was all these statistics that mean nothing in the grand scheme of things, but in this one tiny college in new england, he felt like, you need to know that not everywhere. One time a young man, i was talking about Sexual Harassment in the workplace, et cetera, and he interrupt me to say that bill clinton was a sexual harasser and i was like, okay, and i was like, is he here . I was like, i dont work with him. And hes like, i just wanted to say that. This was around the election. And i think he felt that i was talking about a certain someone else. And i was like, i really was not. Believe me, i do not think about other people that much. So now what i do is, before i even open for questions, i was like, im really sorry about that, but i have to prioritize women and people of color. And i was like, i know that thats going to bug you, its going to you might feel uncomfortable, you might walk out, can you do whatever you want, i dont care. But i need you to understand, why im here, who im talking, who needs me more. And if you have any questions like after people of color and women have asked their questions, then you can raise your hand. Im like, it worked wonderfully. And i feel better about it. I feel like my presentations end on a better note, a more positive note, other than this super animosity, because it was always a white man and i got tired of it honestly. I appreciate you sharing that. Anybody else . Just really quickly, youll have people that will sort of try to correct you when youre actually correct. Right . Been there. That is the most annoying of all to me in my experience. And it really requires you to just stand firm in your facts and sort of bury them in their falsehoods. It just requires that. A lot of men ask me why im showing a statistic or graph or something. Like, what was where did you get that data from . Im like, let me just finish what im saying. Or what was the number of people that were interviewed for that . You know, study. Im like, okay, dude. And then ill send it to you in an email after were done. I had to be prepared, because otherwise, i feel like they try to trip you over a lot. I was once explaining a math problem on twitter at someones request. Its a weird thing to do. Someone had a math question. And i write test prep books in my spare time. It was a straightup question. A bunch of dudes jumped in and started arguing with me. And they were wrong. After arguing with them, i logged out of my account and a created a new twitter account with a white mans picture and jumped back in and said jennifer is right. Ask th and they all stopped. It was a picture of the Young Christopher walken with the name john youngman. I still log in with him sometimes. It worked. Disturbing, yet funny. Just tag him and be like, no, you are correct. No one should need that kind of backup, but hes there. Taking a turn, i guess, have you all experienced a Work Environment that actually made you feel comfortable . That actually you felt respected and you felt equal to those around you . Has that been an experience that youve been able to go through and feel that . Or has there always kind of been a sexism issue in the places that you worked . I had one workplace, it was in the Tech Industry where there were a few people on the Engineering Team who made it very clear that they were interested in feminism. They would have a slack chat group and share articles about it. So when i ended up experiencing an instance when we were at a Company Dinner and one guy was teaching one of the interns pickup artists tactics, he was like, go to a gay bar and the womens selfesteem is so low and you swoop in. And i was like, that sounds kind of sleazy. And they all jumped on me. And the next day, i emailed one of the people who i noticed sharing articles about feminism and i said, can i talk to you about this weird thing, i dont really know if its an issue. Then we talked and he validated me and said, that was super inappropriate. Though i didnt want to go public with it, he talked to the Engineering Team, like, we have to be mindful about how we speak after work. So i think just going out of your way to and this was a white man, who i think the burden especially falls on to go out of your way to make it clear that this is something you care about, so people feel like they can come to you. Right. Thank you for sharing. I worked at a company where i felt like so everything was good, things were good. And i felt like a lot of the things i had been told about men and women in negotiating and in the workplace, turned out not to be true here in the sense that i was the harddriving one, and the men that i was working with were like, whoa, where did that come from . And that to me, it was a slightly maledominated workplace. All the men were pretty chill. And when i kind of approached it like, oh, this is like the stereotypes did not apply is what im saying and a lot of people were just very comfortable going with the flow. And you know, it was an okay experience and its helpful to sometimes see that the stereotypes dont always play. Fair enough. Good to hear that its out there. We have a lot of work to do, obviously. And in that vein, given the experiences that you all have gone through, and looking into the future, if you had a workplace wish list, if you will, what would be some of the elements that you would include on that wish list so that equity is better reached faster . Blind resume review. Start with that. You know, if you and this is something that i think that even as an individual. If youre an individual at a company and you dont have hiring power, you might be an intern, or admin assistant. Still, its common that a boss will dump a bunch of resumes on that persons desk and say give me the top twemp, or weed out the person who dont have such and such qualification. Your boss says to toss out all the ones that have some quality. While youre doing that, you could put a postit note over the names, or put number codes and your boss is like what the hell is this heck, sorry. You say, oh, this is best practices now. And it is. This is resume number 103, and then theres a list that the boss is not supposed to look at until after theyve made their decision that says the name of person number 103. I dont know if youll get away with that, but its worth a shot. And of course if youre at a higherup position, i think the important thing is recognizing that we all have implicit bias. And so even though you might have a lot of faith in your own ability to make fair decisions, you know, you still put the postit note over the name. And i think that brings up a good point in terms of the implicit bias. We all do walk around as such and there are many things we cant help, we are born with and taught certain things. So it takes a keen amount of awareness and, you know, dedication to getting over this kind of bias, for you to be aware of the things that you do and to make them better. But saying that, i say that because i think this conversation can go on and on and it is in the Little Things that we are going to find the ability to change, right . Because you can read all of these amazing, incredible articles, but it will be that one piece or that one day, or that one detail that you notice that will be the change in your behavior, as opposed to one full sweep that will cause a massive amount of change. Its little by little, drop by drop. So in looking at this wish list, if you will, having said a blind resume, i think, is an excellent idea. Because it really is a big portion of where it all starts. And weve seen many studies where they actually change the name from latino to a more mainstream name, or from a man to a woman, weve seen them and they turn out exactly how we thought they were going to turn out. So i appreciate that. Does anybody else have any thoughts as far as a work wish list . Ill quickly chime in. Thats an excel point, both of you. And theres an app called blender, developed by a black women engineer, that allows for blind review. It takes out names, it takes out pronouns, those identifies things that would make it difficult for people to be able to be judged. Beyond that, i think that companies have sort of gotten at least they pay the lip service around diversity, ill at least say that much. But they need to also really focus on creating an inclusive environment. They need to understand that diversity in and of itself is not enough. So when you do have diverse hires and diverse talent, the way to be able to nurture that talent, the way to retain that talent is to create an environment where they know that theyre valued, where theyre respected, where theyre heard, and where they have a real chance at ascending up the ladder. Because if they dont see those opportunities opening up in a fair way, theyre going to leave and go to another company, as they should. And so Companies Need to understand that diversity in and of itself is not enough. That you really need to focus on diversity, inclusion, and equity. When i say equity, im talking about having an equitable chance at getting opportunities to ascend up that ladder so that youre not basically creating an apartheidlike structure at work where all of the diversity in your company can be found at the lower levels. But when we talk about leadership, its basically a whites only or a male only space. Absolutely. Its a little bit of what you guys are saying, but in terms of hiring practices, where i have the most issues. Because thats a lot of it where you cant even get in the door. Blind resume reading is fantastic. But what ive noticed in my industry is that people get hired because of connections. Take it from me, i didnt even know what an engineer was when i was growing up. I had no idea. I never met one. I didnt know. So when i was going to college and applying to schools, my pool of people they could say, hey, im looking for work and i need help was very, very limited. So i could only send resumes, blind resumes to companies until somebody was like, okay, she sounds okay. I found a lot of times i found the way people are hired, this is my friends son. And i was flabbergasted at how common it was. I knew it happened, but i didnt know how common it was. And i mean, to this day, you would get resumes and its like, this is so and sos nephew, this is so and sos son. You have to review it, because you cant just hire someone without it, but you knew that person was going to get the job. And when it came to people that they never heard of, it was always very critical review. And it bothered me because the things they would pick up on resumes that i thought would make excellent candidates, im like, i want to work with this person, they sound fantastic. It was always that they were more than engineers. They were activists, they were curious people, they were involved in a lot of things. And i thought that made for people who were creative and exciting. And i literally sat across from people reviewing resumes. And they were like, oh, look, he likes golf. And im like, what . Or like he plays guitar, i like guitar. Okay, guys. Or he went to so and so school and i went there. Thats a big one. Thats my alma mater, so he must be a good candidate. And i was like, thats not how it really works. I got really frustrated. I got to the point where i didnt want to give feedback on new hires because i didnt feel like i was being listened to. Its the diversity thing. You can hire a ton of people of color, a ton of women, if they dont feel valued, if youre not listening to them, incorporating them into decisions, youre not making them feel like they have a way to succeed, to get ahead, to make a difference, theyre going to leave. So or just stay there until they move on, im just going to start my own business and theyre like, what happened. Im like, really, guys . So the onus is on them to do better. I was reading a babysit bousk on the way here, and there was this chapter. I read a lot of bro business books, i enjoy reading things that i hate so i can hate them publicly later. But this book had a chapter about good hiring and it specifically recommended that during a lengthy interview process, you find out if the person will be a good culture fit. And he mentioned, you should find out what kind of music they like because everyone in the office should like the same kind of music. And im like, okay, you look like you might like the eagles. Im like, is this a thing . Its not okay. We all have to like the same pop cultural things, so it was really very unacceptable. A and that thing with people bringing in their friends and people they went to college with. Theres an article in the Harvard Business review, they say never read the comments, but i didnt think that applied to the Harvard Business review. It was an article about how most white managers arent trying to be racist, they just have a lot of white friends and they like to help them. And this was based on studies. It was extremely well yes. It was extremely well sourced. I mean, this article, it was all facts and figures. It was not an opinion piece. And i have never seen so many angry people in the comments. They were like, this isnt true and im like, its really well sourced. Its really well sourced. Its clearly true, and this is the Harvard Business review. So everyone calm down and accept that this is a thing. Wow, very scary. Very real, but very scary. Ladies, in a minute, were going to go ahead and open up for questions, but before i do that, i just first wanted to thank you so much for bringing your experience, your intelligence, your passion to this panel. Obviously were all here to learn from your personal experiences and from the things that youve been able to glean from going through all of these sometimes very awkward experiences to come to where you are today. That being said, if you could just in 30 seconds or less, give me one piece of advice that you would tale your past self, or your future self, of what youve learned as youve gone through your professional journey. Ill start with you, susannah. My number one piece of advice is to ask for things that you dont think you will get. If you think that wouldnt work unless, then follow the thought and do the thing, it wouldnt work unless, because often youre surprised by how much people are willing to give you. Great, thank you. A piece of advice i would give myself, dont try to be nice all the time. Like i swear, i tried very hard, i think, to fit in. I wanted to be the liked person in the office. And i didnt want to have any problems with anybody. And that got me nowhere and it wasnt until, not that i was rude to anybody, but i think i was assertive and i stated my opinions and i didnt care to disagree with people that i felt like things got better. At least for myself. I started feeling more like, oh, i have agency, im not just following orders from somebody, like, i know what im talking about, and that was a huge confidence boost, and i wish i had learned it a lot sooner. Thats a great one, thank you. I would say being good at what you do isnt enough. I think often times women believe if you just put your head down and you just do a great job that eventually the spoils will come your way. You have to understand that not only are you not only do you need to be good at what you do, you also need to become comfortable with selfpromoting yourself, with letting people know that youre responsible for the outcomes of your work. Because if you arent comfortable with letting other people know your grit that made that happen, then it becomes easier for other people to be able to take credit for what youve done. I agree, and thank you. Its okay to brag. I think so, thank you. Jennifer . You know, i think sometimes trying to fit in, in a place where you cannot possibly fit in, like your best attempt is going to get you a sad second best because you just cant fit in, in that environment, trying to fit in, in a place where you cant fit in, makes you look b subservient, and thats not what you want. The failed attempt to fit in, the thing to do is to, i hate to say be yourself, because i dont think thats true either. Being ourselves, like if i was going to be myself, i would never wear a bra, and thats not how [ laughter ] but what i want to say, there are places where youre never going to fit in and you can spend your whole life trying and trying and trying and not getting there. And sometimes going in the opposite direction is what makes people respect you. And thats sometimes counterintuitive. Ive been outspoken, i had a lot of parentteacher conferences as a child. And ive just gone with it. I did once make cookies for an office full of people and no one ate them because apparently im not a real woman. I dont know. But everyone looked at them like they were poison, and i felt sad. But that was an attempt to fit in at something that was never going to work for me and sometimes the other direction is what is works. Thank you all for sharing your insights. Thats what were here to learn from. Susannah, patricia, dr. Avis, were [ inaudible ] first of all, there are two mikes. I dont know what to do. I am so curious what you think, just your personal thoughts on this google fiasco. If you dont know what im talking about, they patted themselves on the back for closing their pay gap and now theyre being sued or investigated by nobody knows what im talking about . Okay. You know what im talking about, dont you . Well, you know. Its a shame because the reality is this issue around pay equity is something that is a huge problem that we face and its pervasive. Unfortunately, its not just a google thing. Its an everybody thing, and the problem is that it just got worse. This person at 1600 pennsylvania avenue just signed a piece of an executive order which actually rolled back an order that president obama had in place which required, at least, Government Contractors to report how they paid women and people of color so that and everyone, and it required transparency with regards to pay, and thats really what it will take for us to be able to attack pay equity. We need to make sure that companies can no longer hide under this veil of secrecy because as long as that is in place there will always be the means, the mode, the motivation for pay and equity. You mentioned this thing about mothers. One of the areas that oftentimes we dont think about when it comes to this pay inequity issue. Its reality as it comes to race. Its reality as it comes to gender and its reality specifically for mothers. Those are some of the most underpaid people in the workplace, and so there are pay disparities across the board and until companies are made, legally made, required to divulge how they pay people i am afraid that we will never actually overcome that challenge. Thank you for your question. We also do have questions coming in on social media. So well take turns, one here and one there if thats okay with you all and for the sake of the audience, if you arent seeing it. Could the panel provide their own definition of feminism . Who would like to start . Ill start, i guess. For me i get asked that question a lot. Whats feminism . Im very much a proponent of that. I understand why some women dont want to call themselves feminists and my mother didnt understand the concept of it. Feminism is just, like, you helping yourself and your sister out. Like, right there. Its want i think people see it as a you have to have this huge impact in the world and you have to be out let every day to everybody and being vocal and it is, but not everybody is able to do that. Not everybody has the stamina, the resources to be that, and if i can just take care of my, you know, neighbors baby for a few hours that is already being being a feminist, performing something for my community. So i always try to remember being very grassroots and being very local and committed to the people that i say that im supposed to help because, you know, theres this talking and statistics and theyre saying all this and then theres actually doing and believe it or not, you actually just providing some support to somebody right next to you has huge, huge impact and it makes a world of difference. I would say that, be impactful and be meaningful. Thank you. Did you want to people often conflate feminism. If youre such a feminist then why dont you support kellyanne conway, you know . Or lots of other women thank you. We didnt turn out for sarah palin either. But why . Is that just feminists are biassed in some way against certain women. I dont think that it is. I think you need a definition is clear that feminism isnt a woman who is out for yourself and your own achievement. That is not sufficient, and so i think it is important that any definition of feminism is tearing down barriers for other women and marginalized people. Feminism is not go out and get it, girl. You are so successful, that is benefiting of feminism and not practicing feminism. That was a profound distinction. I tend to more selfidentify as a womanist because that definition to me is more intersectional in nature, but generally speaking, i think the end result is the same in that its the idea that there is that women have autonomy over their own decisions, that they are not precluded from their ambitions from what they seek to achieve based upon discriminatory systems and society and working towards tearing down those systems where they exist. Thank you, susanna, if you wanted to add. People often say that its the belief that people are equal to men and challenging what being a woman and being a man means and understanding that gender is very fluid. There arent just women and men. Those are social constructs and all of the ways we categorize people are social constructs and ultimately living in a world where those categories dont limit anyone. Great. Thank you very much. Moving on to another question. Yes, maam . Hi. I just want to thank you all for being here today. I am i think all of us have gotten so much out of it, so thank you. The question piggybacks off of being assertive. So by you being on this panel, obviously youre using your voice and youre putting your beliefs in everything out there, but for women who arent comfortable doing that. For women who hear a microaggression and grin and bear it and what advice would you give those women in order to find their voice so that they can combat some of these instances of feminism that they may experience . I feel like im always jumping in first, so please. Think everyone has a different way of finding that voice that were talking about. For some people its writing and for some people its more comfortable and journalling and moving on to a blog if you want to really, really go out there with your opinions. For some people its music and for some people its art. Theres more than one way to be vocal. You dont have to talk all of the time, and i find that to me that was the way that i kind of got, like, my bearings. When i started talking about my experiences. My first blog post, and im not a writer, and at least i dont feel like im a writer although i write all of the time was just a diary entry almost and oh, you know, this is my experiences and my first day of work and how i felt and it was very raw. There were no editors and i wasnt trying to speak to any particular audience, and i didnt know if i had an audience, and it was more like liberating myself and stop holding that in, and then i found that a lot of people were feeling the same way and certainly people were telling me, like, oh, i read your blog posts, and i felt like now i can finally speak up about it, and i can talk more and this and that, and i can join a protest and come here, and i was, like, really . That happened to you . I didnt really know that i was having an impact. I didnt know that there were people out there that felt the same way that i did for a very, very long time. So i would say just take baby steps and i dont think any of us here would say that one day we just woke up and we were ferocious feminists. Some days im still not that person, right . And i pick my battles a lot. I really, really do. When you work in maledominated fields you cannot every single day be combative, be fighting and there is a lot to fight, but you have to do a lot of selfcare and say, like, that dude is not worth it. Im not going to ignore it, its not worth my time. You have to choose that little by little, but start small and eventually, i promise you will build up on that and you find yourself one day surprising yourself with, like, who you are and what youre capable of doing. Anybody else . Yes. I am so excited by this question. I speak up very loudly, and i sometimes get private Facebook Comments saying i wish i could have said that and okay, well, you know . But i think that in the workplace, heres the thing, networking is not just going to events and shaking hands and giving people your business card. If there is some blowhard in the office and interrupting everyone and taking the credit for himself youre not the only person affected by that and when you make eye contact with other people that is steam rolled and when that dude will not shut the f up and you look at people that are being silenced and thats networking and take that to the next level and there is drinks after work where you complain about that and hopefully turn that into something constructive and even in a traditional workplace and so much of what happens is Relationship Building behind the scenes and before you take it some place and getting your stakeholders to buy into that idea. And so a lot of that is really behind the scenes kind of quiet stuff, and you know, just for everybody who is taking up all of the airspace, you know, there are other smart, quiet, powerful and sometimes very resentful people who you can network with and be friends with. I love the angle. Its very motivational, really. I agree. We have another question coming in from allen calendar. How can male allies help stand up to sexism. You have to talk to other dudes when were not there. There you go. Shut up and listen is a good one. Practice what you preach. Talk to your bros. Theres a lot. Theres a lot that i think men and male allies can do that involves just other men without having to kind of steam roll us and come and joining us discussions because thats not really the space for them. Let me push back a little bit because, you know, maybe a male ally might not want to go into the locker room and talk about how they can stop steam rolling women and it might not be the topic of discussion. In hopes of them unifying their thoughts and having that collective positive, thats great, but what could be something that you could tell someone individually that they could do at this moment, for example . The examples that we were talking about previously, when you see something, Say Something, just like with terrorism. Do it with sexism. Exactly. They always talk about what they can do, but theyre never in places like this or very few. Come to our panel, come to our discussions and come to our presentations, read what we write, buy our books, watch our movies and buy our products. Theres so much. Seriously, if a woman is in a meeting and youre seeing that her idea is stolen by a man then you be that person who echoes her. You be that person who checks him. When people are being considered for that next promotion, you make sure that you are that person if you are in that position to be sort of that person on the inside that you present a diverse slate of candidates. There are things you can practically do that do want maintain the status quo. You need to be there in the moment and be willing to stand up and not always say that thats the womans responsibility to take up for other women. Thats your responsibility, too. Thank you. I just wanted to add, if youre in a leadership role, mentor a woman, but in the same way that you would mentor a man. So what that means is heres my worldly wisdom, you know . Like there was a ted talk by susan columbo, i think, her name is and when she tells an anecdote about a man in leadership who was mentoring a man or woman differently, and she was mentoring a man to take charge of a business, you know . So theres a difference when you talk about mentoring and sponsoring. When you mentor someone its, like, heres my wisdom. When you sponsor someone you tell them how to get promoted and you tell people how to promote them. If youre in a role to do that or do it for women at least as much as you are doing it for men. Fair enough. I think its an easy way that you can do right now is share things on social media, tweet our articles and retweet our tweets because without taking over the mike yourself that amplifies our voices. That was great. Thank you so much. We have one question over here. Hi. So my question is more on the online work space in the blogging world. I used to blog when i was in high school and into my first couple of years in college, and i started to face a lot of trolls out there and even trolls from people who i thought were my friends. It was hard for me to face that negative opinion and continue to blog, and i actually stopped. How do you how would you encourage someone like me or all of the other bloggers out there who are afraid of the trolls to keep going . The trolls are hard. In the beginning i remember it was painful to see those comments. Now theyre comical to me. Im past that and now i use them in my presentations sometimes to make fun of them. So you can actually turn that around and like, you know, screen shot that and put it on twitter and facebook and let people make fun of them, seriously. For me its a really, really good way to release that. You did nothing to me. Im laughing at you. My friends are laughing at you and the whole internet is laughing at you, but when it gets to the point when its too much and youre not in the mood to laugh about it. I have been very upset by some things. I shut down my comments or i have to approve comments and approve comments are my favorite things because then you can just be, like, delete, delete, anything that you dont want. Its your blog. You dont have to host any voices that you dont host in your personal space. Your blog is your home and your diary. You allow people who want to be there and if they want to participate negatively youre, like, youre out of here. Dont be a shamed and dont have to feel like you have to allow. Not disagreement. Its okay for there to be disagreement, but to negate your experience or to belittle you and insult you, and if you really do want to have more open forum and allow people to comment and maybe you dont have enough space to help me go through the comments and ive been receiving a lot of negatively lately, and i can no longer handle and keep reading the messages about nasty things about me. Can somebody else come in there and delete thing, and thats when you know that you are at a place when you can no longer take it, but dont let them stop you from speaking up because thats exactly what they want and make it more difficult for them to speak up. Anybody else . Just remember that its a very small, but vocal minority of antifeminists and mens rights activist, and it can feel like the entire internet is after you, but really, most people probably agree with you, and like you said, talking to friends, making fun of them is a great way to remind yourself of that. Oftentimes i find trail blazers or visionaries and people putting themselves out there will have to confront the negativity, but its better to have a conversation than no conversation, and so that is oftentimes exciting to me if i put something out there and get people pushing back because how else are you going to get to where you want to go, but to address these kinds of people and topics. Thank you guys for that. I have a question from lauren hunt on social media. Advice for addressing subtle sexism in the workplace. When do you speak up and when do you let it go . Ladies . I think once again, we touched on this earlier particularly when you come to this issue of microaggression. Thats something that happens quite often. It really has to be a personal decision to you, is that particular instance worth your energy. However, if youre talking about something thats more substantive that might impact your ability to ascend up the ladder and being disrespected and undermined at work then it does deserve more direct action, and the sort of hit the button. The hit the button response is go to hr and short of that this is where you reach out to those relationships that you have and your network, and people who have been through that so that you can get guidance from them in terms of how they have handled that situation particularly if you have a Good Relationship with someone in that same culture that can give you some experience around how they were able to navigate it. Really, to me, those sorts of relationships are critical for helping you to be able to overcome challenges at work. I have advice on how to do this. So heres the thing. I think when youre in an Office Environment, if you straightup call something racist, sexist or homophobic. People get very defensive. Youve blown up the whole situation. Its a big thing now. Youre unlikely to get the result that you want and youre unable to do that for something thats admittedly micro. I find its very helpful to just dont use that language even though its completely true. If someone says something a little bit sexist, try to find another true word to describe it. It was unprofessional, it was mean and unfair. Those are not minimizing what the person did. Thats not writing it off or glossing over it. It was unprofessional, it was mean and unfair, and if you say those things people are more likely to apologize. If youre mean, you apologize, if someone calls you sexist you dig deeper and that language is really helpful. If you want to tap it down and are if everyone in your office is mealy mouthed, and mine is thats not best practices. Maybe in an Office Especially if i feel i dont want to escalate a situation, but i used to work at a construction site and honestly fu bob was okay a lot of times and you almost want to respond for them to take you seriously and when i wanted to tiptoe around it they would be, like, whatever shes a weak one and i was literally, middle fingers up and fbombs here and there and they were, like, all right. And it was immediately, and shes not one to play with and obviously very limited spaces to use that, but if you can, please do. I did. It was amazing. I wish i could do it all of the time, to be honest. So i want to take the time to thank you all, really everyone watching us via live stream and on cspan, the panelists and the audience. I think theres no greater victory than to have a group of colleagues sit together and realize that we are, in fact, experiencing similar things on a daily basis. This unity, find the power to move ahead. So thank you very much to each one of you and to all of you here. Thank you. [ applause ] so good afternoon, everyone. Lets give another round of applause to our fabulous panel and moderator. [ applause ] and i want to thank nyus d. C. Campus for giving us a home for important conversations such as this, and a warm thank you goes out to auw members, as well. Its your support and generosity through the years that make this type of dialogue possible. What can we do to fight everyday sexism in the workplace . First, know your rights as an employee. Secondly, we need to create workplace cultures with the zerotolerance policy toward Sexual Harassment and lastly, we all need to stand up to sexism. Call it out when you see it as our panel said. Call it out when you hear it or experience it. Aew has created a step by step discussion guide which youll find online to facilitate an indepth conversation in your community and remember, you dont have to do it alone. I invite everyone today on air and in our audience to click join on auws website and work with us. We encourage journalists to reach out and continue this conversation in a public forum and engage more people and a special invitation goes out to americas Business Community to work with us to change the climate for women in the workplace, as well. Auw, is a community of passionate activists. Together, our voices are amplified and real steps are taken towards Better Climate for women and girls. Together we will stand up to sexism. Thank you. Fbi director james comey the weekend on American History tv on cspan 3, saturday at 6 clk p. M. Eastern. Cr gibbs. Fbi director james comey during the civil war. Banister, she was the wife of edwin banister, one of the leading artists, africanamerican artists. And she became involved on the underground railroad. She was a proud and consistent supporter of the u. S. Colored troops. At 8 00, university of washington professor, ma margar omeara. Here row after hero. Kennedys assassination just like kings, precipitates, and now, it throws the democratic nomination. Sunday at 2 00 p. M. Eastern, the book james madison. The political career. Madison was lucky enough to encounter doctors. What a modern thing to think. Kennedys 100th birthday and sunday, Steven Kennedy smith and Douglas Brinkley reflect on the life and career of the 35th president. He was a decorated combat veteran. He did believe in strong military, but he had a much broader conception about what american identity really was. He reached out across the aisle. He started the alliance for progress and he engage d the space. Go to cspan. Org. Saturday at noon eastern on book tv. Military historians discussed their books on world war i. Speakers include jennifer keen with her book, world war i, the american soldier experience. The path to war, how the First World War created modern america. Retired colonel, and his book over there. America in the great war. And the recipient of this years kole be award, david barren and his book, waging war, the clash between president s and congress, 1776 to isis. Watch the 2017 colby military writers symposium, saturday at noon eastern on cspan 2s book tv. Now, a Panel Discussion on president trumps 1 trillion infrastructure plan. How that proposal can be funded and what the federal government can learn from the states. Speakers include representatives from manufacturing and transportation sectors as ll