Submit it for the record. I appreciate i knew that, 1 might be the result. The second is your proposed rule creates an actual date on the u calendar. Date we entered world war i but as you nanknow, our archival l ahpduqano y ir t hahp hc archives actually right now. Im sure thats one of them. In general, sir, what i mn will say inco date was to reallywu w4 possible. If we establish th certainly many of our veterans owe economically disadvantaged, there were more broken do families, so i would ask you to take a look 4c if you can have bdf consistency, i think it makes sense. I dont think that april 6msarth me 1917 is th worstdo3w in the world, but i think consistency, one of the rules we need tz by up here÷u is if we can create things that are consistent, it just makes it easier for everybody. So please take ao38 look at that. Theq 1n last thing i would as yout2bn÷ could consider community sort of community of historians. Every state has a state Historic Preservation officer, and if you a about that state governor appointedu astate governorkk z allow those folks to be included in this by name and by spelling them out i think it would bex really helpful. Theres one inzlpqdsx every for federally8 iujtj i Indian Tribes separately from our 50 states and the 4 territories asl well. So, they are everywhere. 8si itwj position that could and should be i thinkwa sure. We would bemo h2j sir. Thank you so much. The]i;cxul 2ua years here in i hadz you regulation and i appreciate w youre doing to implement that. You mentioned it a little bit want to thank you o because it sets forwardg what happened a fewi where some unidentified remainst p of our servicemen cimi andu ended up in a landfill. Happens again. I really appreciate the efforts to say thank you. On congressman,iac my staff, youre most welcome. They exist. Tx is to serveip5 our 4ijjrjj[p n heroes andr nn the people who have worn a uniform. It was a sensitive subject. We understoo we were out front. We worked thebk im happy to updatu c then÷ committee that we will advertise]b n that project in we anticipate a contract beingz awarded in april with 180 e66b[t project. October or november of a a2015, icunyn anticipate havingyqx a tomb ofu c remembrance in i appreciate that. Even our deserve a place of honor and i o youre most fc9uwelcome, sir. Thank you. Last senator clee lan for employing marshall. I certainly good to see john b here, but i really appreciate you and what youcffy dobaquy for our veterans. Thank you for u serving our[4fa veterans that happen to be÷ buried around the globe. I happened to. Places in france one of your cemeteries in france this [÷ gpyear. Gwhx it was very well kept up. I r;f en appreciates0g that you take your missiong sjdbc seriously and honor our heroes regardless of wc qratk happen ex b ut their final resting place. Thank you very ip kmuch, mr. Congreshk8 i yield back thes i want to thank the chairman and wish him great luck on his future. Talcd i know youve got thank you very much. Well miss you as a a thanks. I have oneaxema]÷ more question. af hopeopen it up to the other members if they have another one or five feel f 5 only because the firstncrgfbk meeting that i hadgld with secretarykkln mum down and he said something thatldn really got theeb . Z wheels turning. And i know Strategic Plan. I want to address really,a walters, about kch6nca and Strategic Plan moving forward9s s specifically after these conflicts were coming outvfc ofh9s. Are we prepared to have and what3hjy studies, plans d75 have to be able to deal with this92 a moving forward. J k thank ÷vl1cyou, mr. Chairman. The nande cemetery strategicpmv planning effort. nbn cf1 oets dtqi pah ar as predicting the futureydy . Y grave site need rates, we use the vetd . cn 2011 modelp nq we received from another officex that modelfm provides us with veteran level data atg4cd the countyoea level, using that data which is thatetdi data, we then look at individualc2dymz make and assumptions 20, 30 pz years into the future. I will say that weve been successful with predictions. In most years werptq ua. t a variancekb ofjsx aboutk ÷ 1 froma0 4r our projected intermo so any vy x cohort in the future would be reflected in these models. Tua 4. Reflectbjc]hv thank you for that response t y at puaq i know we all sit with whatt vha and how were unable to predict a lot of that so thank you for thatoqc ienew ,n0up response. Mk÷ rang Ranking Member . If the typhoon that recently hit the philippines had an impact on our cemeteries there and whats happened . sitem2declared a International Heritage site and howpl3 fvfmz affects our cemeteriesvg6n÷ 2¥sed thank you very much. Thegaa question i dont know the answer a]ertto. And i wilva6k61aujz mike . Ocnq conley who might know an answer to rfcit. The first qus typhoon. Typhoons hitk the philippines from time to ti someoi the treesz ix are blown down, grave sites jfn are impacted, so we are like everyone else. However, we have a great crew kvg w spot in responding and4 n settingj r31 things rar÷ tha 2 i would have to ask mike ]3uw conley, doesil he know anything tk b ja u e heritage sitx norman di . ;n ms. Titus forgive my voice. C½fkf1 o i have a cold. jx we are in contact with the folks over y 3there. Um our overseastnn operation offic1 just outside paris has x6t ereviewed paperwork and we are considering whether we want to endorse that. If it is declared a World Heritage site that theres prevent us from maintaining and improving upon the site as i agree with that. Well, thank you. Mr. Secretary can you identify him for the record please . Btje thatc mike conley, our chiefr thank you very much. Mr. Question 6fls forbz2hu holland. Husband are both eligible for understanding is that the rules do not allow them to reserve a plot next to each other and if they do want to be buried together theyll be buried one on top of another and theyll share a;zg headstone with1 ones name on one side and the x40iwothers on the other. ÷i is that a rule in place because ofkh space,zp in other words, youre not allowed to reserve a plot next to your spouse like you might at another National Cemetery because i think its 2015 that were runningb out of room . Question, there were priorx reservati,w0u arlington under the u. S. Army which ended in 1962 by law, so there are no legal reservationszrjnanymore. Arlingto bv eunique. It is a xay space issue. There are differenthcaq typessn of burial patterns at our nationalvtfyae cemeteries as mr. K former senator cleland are aware of. e that would be a driver to bury people sideaia by if]÷ kj side would plots. Youre 100 . W0i accurate. Both are eligible a takit< that as a be buried together in the same grave site, whoever goes first wow7x go in first. They would share the ih 5q 9 on the government headstone yes. Is there a plan in place touen add additional groundsnny posta 2050 . I dont want to say no, congressman. I believe that when we[ that era of the decade, there may be some0 its very difficult in the area thatptlevfe were in in washington. Weve taken ourigj millennium project,t weve space from ft. Mire. Spaceqeq outr expansion process expansion, you have to look at whats going to be gained, not just a matterl k8dq 4÷n f maximizingk burial space it has a smallj footprint already. And any future expansiona dob will pro cost. There maykc lande cn towardsi 6n where the current memorial is now. Any interest we show beyond our current footprint and where were going to go after 2050 will be ax n rather difficult and sensitive issue. We doh project what comes after 2050 for you for your commitment to work e me. I really appreciate that. And while i feel very strongly about the position that we holdkc]nn aq related to the z your team rpn . The way inqnvv which you take care of it. Nm÷ aga really nice for what it is but i just h heard from too many veterans and their famil 4 u this point who desperately want something that is moref wch t aajt urg for them as they pay tribute to their loved n together to get this. 7g done. I appreciate your willingnessem b to work. We look forward to working with you z 2w sir. With that gentlemen, on behalf of the Sub Committee, thank you for yourb pxn testimony. I wish you all of successi 1 in 2015. You are now wait a few minutes to switch overnqykq the witness table. Thank y pnyou,7ib chairman. w]o 8c vms ÷i÷uwixf q 4 sicfg n4÷÷6 t. ]onph;af x 6cdd u this time we welcomeg[b secondy Berger Miller who isk3÷n the director for ms. Diane, national< adn ef director for am vets. w we appreciate your attend today. Your complete and written statements will be entered into the . A÷n8b hearing record. You are now recognized for five minutes ep vbua for your testimono thank you. ÷z2u2 tragedy assistance programeao for taps iscv a Nonprofit Organization that provides comfortt u4and care to anyone grieves the death ofbh someon awho died08ibf t serving in our armed forces,h÷i÷ regardless of where they died or how they mo died. We appreciate the Sub Committees continuing interest . O in ensuring our nations veterans7g i and Service Members have fina,3 4 resting places that arek maintained. These my brother was killed in action arlington National Cemetery and my fatherinlaw is alsor 4w÷ buried we hope you will. G review[mxnc submitted testimony which includes opinions on legislativeez initiatives cemeteries and arlington. Rmv department of veteranshmtpt affairs also touched the nath4];l cemeteryf7r[ adp year. Unfortunately the previous under s12 u h oraomn Memorial Affairs revealed he haddn prohibited practices andv5p aa preferential treatment, but new leadership is now in place ando kq opportunities we have had to meet with vab d6hug secretary Robert Mcdonald sloan gibson. We know h t aa y commitment to assisting survivors and it2 is will move forward in akoz positive andh season last year and the3pfs u compromise was extended into the growing. Ko 9 and is still currently in place. The families are veryq fzjz7mt grateful for thissbocompromise. They have9cn worked to educate each other about the rules and thn while the membersu7qeq c0jqtee all have kplem÷ Service Credentials and the chairqa testified on the previousx jfpanel we believe their deliberations would benefit from the insight of a survivorscy perspectiver÷ [dw and we thank you for the opportunity to submit our testimony a. X fa wez4hkn cx at any questions. Thank you. With hbik 2c that, idgh z recognize6tun ÷ on behalf of you for the opportunityk2vnp tovi assistj i÷ you in the important job of cemeteries. Previously my3 testimonylha jut c this comm limited to a repetition of facts andpastatistics. However, todays3uj sjan will be much more heartfelt and personal because i love history am 8r trained Historic Preservationist, love my country and grew up documentingal vfh,z cemeteries in theo new england area todays topicrj6mn is important to me bothsg personally and e in everybody in this rooms2zzq knows and apprc p uj National Cemetery administration to honor theu dy memory of ci americas military men and women. I would like to setcn nk theotrw stagel n hc bka y togwid[ conveyp u e importance of our national cemeteries, not only to our nations veterans,83pxen to allo americanuwid citizens. Historically, nsn cemeteriesf s especially military m were much more sites of burial with regimented internal layouts hnlp s conducive to both the expression2ab÷1 grief and accepted societal jcf9r funiary rituals. Fu arec n aware of the social and political aspects2up nof8b cemeteries ÷z7÷ n including promotingnfaczdopd and preserving the;bqb 9 y 1 qeandi statsb÷ . n boundaries. The omqb icommemoration of rem eventsd2x qg]oy persons. Serving asfc fk places of beauty and tranquility where friends and family can gather. Mfn u u5 expressions of National Identity in the case5hjt military cemeteries. And asn x n sites of pilgrimage and ke permanence. Imfeen hopeful th greater appreciationkn bxs of Historic National value of the many unique aajk and irreplaceablexfh1 ene nca system. The monuments, architecture, landscape andc related memore kbralbikst mormoriadhu] xuadw each nca cemetery are richlyi[n steeped in history pmh and represent the very foundations of these united states. 6i p solute bestg q to develop and maintain these Truly American shrines . After having spenti several weeks this summer visiting nationalhajfg cemeteries, there were seven that i wasduhub able tor getg5 to iky four different hissens, my ml impresqh its employees isinh higher than ever. C6 having for indepth visits where i was able to observenbm very facet of moved÷ vz and z care and professionalism atjmv everyeg level of the organization. None of the h cemeteries i visited mh at q anyj equally acknowledge that cs continually rig strives to meet its most important obligation, providing dignified restingbwen places for our nations veterans and their eligible family members. This concludes mys4 ÷ testimony. And ill be happy to 2ttuqaurjj p r t hahp hc thank you very nf much. Well begin2 round < questions. 06u resulting in accesslfn÷ constraints during major holidays and time when many families choose to visit their fallen lovedo ones. Ihn how successful has taps 6vanac÷ outreach beenna several areas where taps has volunteered to assist in spreading word and do you think how do you think w while alsozw mn51wt well, sir, i think for us its abouthzf0k reaching out to ourrmfgwvoccm families and distributing information. Weve made improves in our survivor data basedezq so we bettx si orpy bt1wi familieslnf around burial location of theirab one. One of the challenges is that many of the families whod i bury their loved ones at arlington do not live in the washington area, so unlike people who reside here theyre not familiar with the security precautions thatiejtr t hahp hc occur when the president or the Vice President travel to an event and so sometimer families especially when f coming in from out of town÷ get caughto on the bridgeh< very ser eiahp hc areyr ot familiark 2o with the security lockdown 6b n s procedures. And so our role has beenw n to,0 on compile the information and district it by email to families. I would1 improvements that were trying at that and weve also met with the cemeteryqr÷ administration over ther l summer to actually make some additional improvements because of some concerns over memorialr day. And veryn20g similar to information i wanted to thank taps for participating inbxjv discussions with gold star families in section 60 in q particular. You said in you2 its an agreementq ÷s and itsi4in hn notj formal. Do you have any suggestions on how to move forward and kind easeu its been about keeping lines ofq52csn2zo÷j;g communication bu 9xopen. You know thev ago we had z a group of very families and for ourt families to really talk with the administration, to seec i them asg o 2at for the administration to meet them as people and to look them in ta0÷ti u z and say we want to work with you onpa÷ this that vbnwnt a long way. And so i think it became about how to[yx and then hoa. Could work recognizing that the cemetery has to be at a certa j standard as a National Shrine but also recognizing that grieving is different ,rvqctoday. And for some people leaving an uyox object or a photograph is and so how could we workgj]n out something thati2 visited rc4wn and they were not just brief run6oqh in and 8 hcnout. I usually spent am days or more at each site. P . X i just did not i mean, i wasntibw going 2,bw through their records. This was more instance, at jefferson baricsqu9n i trainingbcn center. I scheduling office, so i could seew theg e process. Cemetery itself, but every sitek n÷w e0q thiz ,bjo i wentd to i wasgi p truly i was j9 ]surprised8en iz < think by the care of the chain of custody, if you will. I had no was like until i went1s,r jeff9sdn baricsxwhere i started. And point to ensure that it was the right veteran. Z n÷ri they were going to be < interred was the right site. Idjm mean, there is they use maps. They draw this stone is here. [jwvi hahp hc thislk k dqv pu just thel4[ hdetail so that i i aree one of the things that really struck me. K,4 that and as i was6 v riding aroundz withx. Different employees during my visits i would see 2rn they would1 vehicle if they saw somebody Walking Around who lookedubmi like they2. A piece of6 trashd in the cex just got out and took care of it. It was just really very reassuring to see0 n that level of care at every stepyns u e way. Thank you. Good to hear. With that, ill yieldur to the c Ranking Member ms. Ti tr t hahp4rdy thank you. Thank you both for all the good work you do with families during this most difficult44 n ztime. I would ask ms. Neiburger miller, if you have this same e ÷ dealing with people and talking to8÷ families that we heard reported in the surveys that z e the nca does, they say3kn their surveys show that 95 of thebe people arey got the best marks of any is that3, xtwhat you hear on the ground fromyr kx families . We÷n hearbqiw from families that they are often veryt1. T satisfied with the burialf pn process. Esyea unfortunately we do 2l i with people whohb many of these people are struggling with shortterm memory loss issues or some othern nxuo issues ldv going on. Uem theyre often inx1ngreat state these are peoplepagn who died young, who were not expected to die,n t hahp hc whoiiu died in very1h6n iolent ways. A great w deal of shock. The burial is not a wait typically for an actiil2 duty service thats extremely long, so the family bye is sometimes even needs the photographs or other things from the service to really6f recall m÷ it very ell. And thats unfortunate, but they always will say that they feel their loved one was honored. And 7pi83hui÷ii that they feel2ov0 that loved ibvcones service ukmncountry. Do you ever talk touif ÷ families who feel like they dont live close now have a national cemt ÷y to be able toocfak access it to cbc[sfrtresort so some other more deu private funeral . Well,c there are families who have to make very difficult decisions. Also because this wasm thank you. ; npr t hahp hc whenx u you visited those se2qc cqf8jt hahp hc cemeteries, didc m you visit any state cemeteries or justspu] national . I have not yet opportunity to visit a State Cemetery no maam. Do you think some of your veterans would like to see cemeteries in the west where they couet48 buried in a National Cemetery not justb4n statejp. co my know ] t not personal you will i you know, i dont senn. Why, as long as the state beingjn maintained totthe shrine5jmj standard that that should be an issue. However, i2eco6a didr ixl ask t about a problem in alaska having to do with access there a uo nationalgyelqqyiny7j cf1 o and the otherao4uf56n apparently is on an active theajb issue thatsjvuo n brought upbits wass on not everybody has access to a boat, but that if theres any sort of Security Issues going on on the base then the base is closed a you cac its on my list. Im going to0j,< continue visiting odl cemeteries. Thank you. I just worry about i policynpqw varying from state to state,p]fi even with the checklist. For example, the saqq sex couple might be able to getc buried together injfi. A state that recognizes it but not in a state that doesnyea if itsau cemetery not a National Cemetery. Soj3anfi1nf i think while state cemeteries i think the one in nevada and boulder city is great,aj1y i think there are still differences that we need to address. I appreciate it. Thank you,old mr. Orourke. Ms. C ÷7skykeneuburgeru go to cemeteries including the one at ft. Blissim k innanq el paso texas. I want to note for the record that mr. bxanx n are here as well i really appreciate. The fact that youre listening as well to gain insight. I really appreciated your u ks in your cg your writdwtgdn4 National Cemetery atu ft. Bliss. You describebb9 it as serene and beautiful and very well maintained and a little bit of a surprise because you hadar um x lhn heard< in el paso about the cemetery. I really cantt3h2v argue with yourni4r conclusions. I think it is a vert very beautiful again, so cleaa÷nq÷v well maintained and for the resources that they have, if youre going to have thatlon crushed rock and some small aj maintained. I think the disconnectcp nx might0 n come4n when we talk to the families the. rlr survivors, whonsouz can also appreciate everything that you describe m bu then thatn7 act of actually kneeling at the grave site or being close to the headstone is ae÷ lesser this is, you know9nn their experience as they related tore because of that÷ zln environment andzem not having that grass and that vast 5u majority ofp q cemeteries in el paso and almos,dphc every other single National Cemetery. But you also said something that i thought was so importantzzif in your testimony or wrotewvx testimony which was that when vi,t you visitedu÷s with f visiting]ji at cemetery you found that they were not as u}p with thea aesthetics as they were with the process and they felt like they had been diwa t uq from the processia used to choose the . E water wise. Great exchange withfcg6 mr. Wffk walters in the Previous Panel where we agreed that we would try to Work Together to find a wap to make an improvement, maybe its not turf and maybe its not staying with the status quo maybe its Something Better for all 0 talk about aso process thatbqd might recommend from your uing with survi6exf working with veterans, working with ÷u4zvsos in our communityyyfby and with the sv iahp hc sorry to of zero skapinglcfm so im not sure lowmaintenanceh only avenue available. I have seen u of ft. Blissd5jz when it was f and r thee 9z picture i can see. 7eorncl n lot of brown and bare patches doesnt looklqgo so i;pz cant imagine that that would be anyxa gg beu right. And i dont know if i said this in my written testimony or not, but2 t and this was my firstr,t experience being in a5wm o 99÷ desert, but when you stand p the ] environment, all perfectly suited i did askv y iclt ent0, ÷ to a vfwl . To the cemetery tohx÷n veterans and see what th thought about[qa n it. And you mentioned that0p,a n couple07 z of things. I asked them0c ifa hi to walk on. Somebody was saying that, you know an elderly person perhaps disability, you know, do they have difficulty either with a walking on74 possibility came up. Iyuwdidnt try eitherr or t whenq3wtnwuh ÷1n i was tyctr t hahp hc it was 120 fuz i didnt tryu jn6gb 9kneeling. But there were people visiting thee individualsr9 un had brought like ws almost like a small prayer rug,3vmw;8y if you will, somethingvu÷ o put on the ground to kneel on which i thought was, you know,d9] ayoi. n pretty good option. Uq one[t mention is i National Military cemetery in israel and0 theywany grass in that cemetery nv dynow, what is on i saw your ewr uu e qq from the cemetery in israel. And it looksndirvat there isdl on thej cpn actual grave butxe;n itvo looks like its surrounded by stonesaxn and theres some material in between the stones over the is that grass or some other covering . Sir the ground is mainlyehy a flagstone typeoy material q and then each individual grave is k built uhnqbk theres a wall, ac f5q surround, if and on t of huhx8umthat, th s is grass eo0t, soil butgx u its not grass. C y gotch ya. 7n there are plants there. And there werew and i dont know because of that variety, iq n members maybe tried to5]f0s personalize txajs loved onestzas site but it wasnt grass. And any p flagstones wasbuf bare dirt. Well, i appreciate you ba t[ng that tmoya jbvlattention. I have the pictures here in front of me ani÷ providesisd yet another option. In other words, its[t not a choice of a false choice÷e between bad turf and grass, which is what ft. Bliss had, and the qw rock but as[5f; z you saw inhcd the desert, its full of life and there are forms of grasslb v andmz÷ plant life that thrive therex5z andbujua ut can reach and looking at what others haveod done including in israel gives usr optiof thank you for doing the work and providing us some other perspective. appreciate it. Testimony. My pleasure. Thank you. 16rn anything tzfurther . I would like to thank yo your testimony and for the works thaehy taps] v honor our veterans and care for thei2e ami now excused. I want to thank everyone forn 5y being here today. The status reports from our cemetery23 and memorial representativesqaa n and the input 8 from the vso community was well presented and this sub1stu committeexd appreciates the work that went into the preparation for todaysjf q hearing. ahu will continue tusn engage in these issues in the yp next congress s j the fina,cix resting place for our join us tuesday on washington journali2z for a conversation with Emily Stephenson about der riftiveswi trading and thebci p ÷1. 1 trillion federal spending bill. And Brad Woodhouse about ÷hmm bipartisanship. All live tuesday starting att;÷nh 7 00 a. M. Eastern on our companion network, this week on q and a, author and on what she perceives on the warrn on women n rhetoric. J] nn what is your problem as say of ted kennedy . Well, itc lr rom each year starting december 22nd at 7 00 p. M. Easternq7a with live coverage of the u. S. House on cspan and the senate on. Sc÷ tomufxwcspan2, here on cspan3, we complimentfrxw 3u that coverage. Home to American History tv programs that tell our nations 9 byrs9j story, including six unique series. Thesoz anng9autp y visitingu xn battlefields and key events. American art facts, touring 84f museums anec b6a;s historic sites. History book shelf÷3usn the best known American History writers. The emidpresidency. Vd2c cf1 o looking a the policies and legaciesllx of om nations commanders in chief. . Lectures and history with top college÷ professors. And our new series, real america, featuring archival government and educationalnyy films from the 1930s through the4ap 70s. Cspan3 funded by your local watch us in hd like us on facebook and followjizg twitter. Earli5w is month the assembly of state hvciu xb legislatures held a57 eeeting to establish sh zc bylawsnt a future stateled f Constitutional Amendment Convention article v allows states toraizc propose amendments if representatives from meetni one n and zipknagree. This is themc threeni organizational meetings with previousibzcn sessions being held in virginia and at the indiana state house in indianapolis. Thank you, matt. Support. Its a great civic exercise for us to consider the wtools left to they understoodw5i u we were chaluakiqahr the 3jzj e that the existing document wasnt going to be prepared to deal with, so theyu c put i fi iny believe and i believe that many of you also agree that that time has come. But here isutk the reality. Fap÷c republicans cannot do this alone. Democrats5 qt cannot do this alone. It doesnt ufr÷ matterk3v7 what you problem is. Finance reform. Others its redistricting,÷k limits, balance budget it doesnt really matter because number of 38xlk x states tor yn ratify unless we have thoughtful and moderateke5 nbonjw÷proposals. Wevm have a responsibility to oury constituents to1 . Sm our states and to t that we can. Asl joint republican and leadership process. Our country65 needs us to get this right. Im a progressivev4 zv Democratic State senator from kansas city, missouri. I will bring thosew values9b9 to this role. Representative f;cappengaq5 u÷ is a conservative republican from wisconsin and i suspect he will bring those values to his role. Together, we will work to find common groundjks ciw help bring people together and our problems are bigger than the partisanship td u p gridlocked washington, d. C. In Article V Convention offers lsn us the best opportunity to propose solutions that congress offer. We will need all of yourm÷ support, your industry to continue to grow the diversity of this nation. Zoi we have to get to6a in 34xb4t states tos call the f ibkzconvention and; we neeiaiahp hc 38 states to ratify. And if anybody in this rooml thinks thatsx9 [9a task,hg rq door isybnu over t states to aruatj thati13 come out of whatever work product that were able to produce, and this is of course down the road,x 8x is going cuvz have to be2 d÷ based onhd n , t]bipartisan and Mutual Benefit for the citizens that we represent. I like to say that i run blue but i govern purple. Thats not i representp,htp in thec9v2÷ Missouri Senate that doesnt have my ear time in my endeavor. That goes to. ÷ every member in this room here. Yes, im a democrat, but im also an american and i believe that the b sqsjny arecsh8r great enough to set down our party labels and to pick up our work boots and to get to work. [ so withp representative raymond dean from minnesota as the vice copresident if for some unreason im ikp of the office for then÷ i was elected tovg n. Rrsjt o step into that position and hopefully hell be prepared to take over the position when ever thew20term is up. Representative cappengas will,0p appoint senator david long from h÷ indiana as the republican Vice President for the thank you all for being here. Thank you fora dc believing that this is as[acy viablez2 to help solve some of the problems that we face. W] p thank you. [ applause ]k. Thats agcy wonderful gcstatement. Did you check with ray before you1pjn appointed him, by the way . G j. . B no. Good. At this time then we a2 to ask representative cappenga to come up and hes going to talk about thexhvl fgx of thejc i Assembly State legislatures why he, as theehvjadothis is his049 brain child and why he came up with this idea and what wekn all doing dtco] representative . Thank x ÷ huffman. And imsf e3mx will a[ correctly, good afternoon. Good all right. Q] rv raymond, it was afternoon. ÷p sorry. Its morningzi1cavn where im 7xfrom. Well, thank you,jeverybody. Obviously we are very happy tona seek fuayou back again for thoseo xmhw have been here before, which c again, we sek dqn a lot of familiar we also are excited to have new members here. So, one of the things thatana wemof t wanted to do isfy1gb walk through again,o3p iq0pouhayey, what is u before look4k2w on the back of your tag. J7]beraqq we know what your seat number. np÷ weve installed electric 5q and hell push the2 i button with your seatqty number,n n so that way we keep people fromnbiy falling aslu d÷ executive committee, thank you for we had m9 9 calls, lot of sideuz< six months for actually x meetings to go forward toaxnl in trying to2tujp39w understand where this organization is evolving long term. And,r so i want to thankp my staff fdn actuallyh all the time you putm q inqibec this thing was set to 6c÷go. So we havei committee. W up. And5 ez that94an reallyr helps because get Straight Talk on executive committee, and thats good because that way if onepz side or thecn n other startsx down a road that doesnt make oiu Naval Heritage center ia n cannot tell you how great these guys have been in setting upwi÷ the venue. They have been amazing to work with. So i wanted3p]wmpz÷ to make sul jy i thanked them. They just everything we needed, they setd dv ov÷ up for us. I guess we could thankjz÷vq cspan fl. J being here. They are going todfaxf]f be taping this, so thatsi0jh therdku lights. Its not that we want to be seen. G better. So thank you u acspan, for being here and also finallytn to theiiy participants. Thank yougmyk h v÷coming. And taking time. 8 loow]d9z r t hahp hc i know peoplerm flew out justs. Ych other people had stuff before or after this. I know this takes time away from the pxp6qfamily. I talked to somebody w y they had been gone from th family since monday and wont be back until wednero or thursday. So, itsz the5tqr8e nh] n kids and the7pfvi ucwife,6p if you have punone so thank you for the commitment there. What i want to do is the purpose of the Assembly State legislate s, ill talk about what were doing and also go back through, hey, how did this come up . This . So representative talked aboutena article v. I dont want to u n reiterate. Thengayt states have ajs3gluq i qez tah from missouri said last time in axxa0u meeting, the 6wf we have the juris b3txez1asd to amend the constitution and that will take two thirds of thei states to passooi q8x resolutions. Why the twok3w methods . Understand, too. History centralization of power and it doesnt matter if what civilization, this is a trendvlv s,6eea which always ends up leading toop abuse. And at george41y k qrxmason in his if you look at the notes of the constitution, one of his uuutj isx xt improper÷ ri r÷ requiree]atheebms consent of the national legislatureribr powt u and refuse their consent on that very account. So these guys; really had a good grasp of history. 1 vm bless you. And so they put v this mechanism in placen 6n specifically for us. So why have thee n states not a÷c j been 9eiahp hc succe ]m . H n this came up i waù÷n theptbiahp hc chair of cons4rhg4ion and ethics in the state of wisconsin and we kept having people come upo5ic and ask the question about article v qq t so÷rb y zu we had to really devil int j it. Its interesting becausea state. So we need to understand what the root cause of the a is. Accounting0 i used tox21 . n gojiw2o in n 0 nn and look for mo9wcua recommendationsrmh we would look at processes andg y procedures and risks and controls. So it was fun this, but we recognized that it never gota]rp to the m huwhat . Or theg jr it always stopped z7n the how. Every single time. And i can tell you after having2imu nr conversations with bothoeunzl dgi republican and democrat colleagues across the s its the samej y÷ story. Every single time we have the discussion, it always comes back able to say whatsj g4n the otherak ÷n thing find haveci n ln gotten away together andq d. i think forgetting that we actually play a part5q ]g government. We hold power, bxsn it seemsbvj 5ss like weve kind of pulled ourselveszrpmn back into our ovffblqq states, so we needn]zft something to get us back out. National government right ÷dnow. So they said,d o 6 states andy ,d get something together. So a year later in annapolis they got together, 1786. ov they only had five states show up. They said, authority hered7,lbecause weeb ;n dont even have a majority. Lets do it again. So they called a yfn later theywr÷ f mcalled 1787 and wep bv all know what happened in 1787, Amazing Things happened, 12 statestpban showed up,u b r t hjujhc 13 ended uprwp ratifying2ysn product of thata meeting. So we looked at it. M3ob and we 2fnesaid this is a greatvz mechanism to get together estates, to talk about issues of commonwc concerns. Lets call fortunate enough raise your hand if you were at mt. P p 1 yea3hr and i always have found memories of mt. H x vernon. What an amazing time h t place that we were able to kick this off with. Meeting and then knowing that weve got some legislative conferences in d. C. Wem1;t thought it woul z appropriate from a cost standpoint it w . Z good to be able to have another meeting htjut in d. C. Today and tomorrow, theres really two main hbegoals. We need to adopt our byl modq . Qms so that we can become an kn official organization. Well go through that procesiahp hc today. Well walk through thebn3gn bylaws. Well open it up for debate and discussion. Representative huffman will eny that. Andhv;x then the second goal is really to further define the edakx rules. So well get into discussion about what the comcp a uppx7cf1 o up and the two c committe will step up fbz here and theyu walk through, hey, here is what the committee has done. Here is the item that was assigned. Product2zx that weve had and then 7 n we either can discuss ua rn saying this is good or we can push itc1t]x back to[y t the committee for further discussion . Txnp,nn0 l÷ andf kl actually theres a third a5ngoal,1 x tooy hhat really is to continue that is really really important. And i ÷z w think what wei is all next meeting and make surea7w4 that we are reaching out and we need to g ] t i e think we have 30 or 31 . 7i÷di states that [s r4nuiin havefhpivmz zg officially sent someone from theiru leadership, so an official delegate, which is amazing. We are verytkzuq happy with that. Iq we need to grow that. Obviously our goal is to . Vi< states to be officially here so we can come up with a solid work product that is annga÷÷ solid. Gc h roposal that citizens i p]nk areue0[ comfortable with and obviously that state legislatures across the nation on both sides of the aisle are comfortable with. And were confident we can p sju auuz do 1 we just ask for your engagement there as we4 . Z movebc k from this meeting forward. I put just a couple ofqzz points on why its important, what doing 0 continuer cf1 o if you look atrbfo of the work9h r t hahp hc that is going on tg6jn we or when we get to as the states for proposing amendments, lookaf÷ am hahat goes into it all of the discussion. I mean we were dfqeai1ns sitting herea ] earlier asa executive of things t2 and we spun off into one issue and we spent 20 minutes just debating8 qc fv on issue around the convention and each eu3 other, whoa, we have to pull thiscykyk were weve got too flc get them agenda finalized and ;csfpo verything, but there is so much discussion and so many lkmlqongd fine poi oao cf1 o that we keep running into thaty of. Eu z define and f debate. So what were doing here is we are takingev÷ ab significanta load off of hq we are ableqcq to put an andibt÷bk a model together that they can look÷da put together by stateqq involved. We are pure and we will notxlon allow anybody else into this organization. It is,1yvc[; oh n currentlyg legislatures and that is a critical piece that wejd n saw too inwm y soon asaavuau get an organizationb8n that is a nonpartisan,vfi÷n it fb f doesnt 7 whenn currently servingeg o state legislatures engage inv aan6 qgm w process, p a becuqnn partisan for somebody, so we arep 9 continue to remain a pure currently serving statetr legislature body. The second thing thats important fosteringibg r relationships. We talked about 7tthat. Obviously 63ln the third ysn removes the unknown of the process. This whole[qon thing3 nbe that is we want to make sure we underslji1 howew and we will have a very Firm Understanding of that when we we will have a product atf yy thez that its trustworthy and know yw that its well intentionedp know that it is balancedn that it can and thato;u s allow us then to say, cu you known i, , we5 the how, which weve all been looking for for a longydtime. And now we can focus on the issues at hand. Lets startmp c talking about the the why. We all kno ptlnwhy. Thats what drives us. Now we g. Oir÷ to the what. So, zy are myve6 comments. Thank youa]gc y . tun again i dont know if younj7n notice the pictures. I kind of laughed. I was going for a run this4 s weekend andt0 z ran by the capital dome. How many saw that its under construction. Yeah. I just thought it was kind of ironic because thats in repair right now. My phone. I quick stopped and then kept running and thats one of the shots up here. So thank you for coming to fix washington and we look frw z i n hank you, mr. Copresident. We appreciate that. Well move to8r e rq point agendaoim gijyn for the discussion of the proposedaxo6gag bylaws. I think were going to put thoseaw up on the screen at some point, were mailed to you beforehand or you got nowcj4n yes, sir. Okay. So i think its helpful to have those up there as we talk about it. Now, let me tell you a rw things that these are not. This has1 rg uo to do with the these. Bc asking for you to take pw c back to your statek 3hqrxj1rn ÷u what we are currently is for profit8um j have to have q3kp minimally aax some9 bylaws that0 n talk abouti÷ decisionhpfm making. This is a very barev document. In my law practice ija8 ujt sv 3ng n started upwards of three ors sepail dont get paidlfuz doing not for profit work buti ÷ pr 20 or 25 not forthc profitia lpcorporations in the statec ohio. And when you of course thoseh . nbh÷ corporations have to havex3qay bylaws. Lengthy documents because8 you have to get into things. This, however, is rather bare bones. One of the reasons is we have to get a mn group of veryd divergent folks fromqj all over the country to approvecge these, so what w sn simply doing in these is identifying who we are what our purpose is who are the members who are goingjh to be able to weigh in on theseuxl decisions and then anjm structure that we talk about in the dqgnend. 4 ds t hahp hc afterib that, well have as i get into of the other committees would be formed andzf,tn 1t approved. What im going to do right now about this document. T f n you can follow along with me. Illhy try not to be too repetitive repetitive. Then im going to sit down and set 26n needer hauser is goingdt 8iahp hc to come and well have a55fwu x discussion about this. Not that any of you might but dont worry abouthjihurting my lcoings. Im a lawyer. S thats what wereq so feel free toirrcriticize, amend, it is that you think is appropriate because q end a what were going to ask tomorrow a set jv vfb bylaws that we have approved. So that can begin making decisions in a morm] formallav rway. L ]plaztn article ia3zr organko7on and purpose, weu statev. Fjdvprnn legislatures inc. We initially;z9n vernonipg rcn n a whole bunch of]xk groupsao b decided they could make money off of 9 n that. We got wiser and came up withngzs÷vxn a better more i think its verykvi whoro b6y2÷ we are. Any organization thats j9u formed . Uy corporate or otherwise of course has a purpose. The purpose c of the Assembly Rules and procedures for and p to conduct convention of the states f5u pursuant to article v of the constitg n of th states of the america and to consider an act upon all othernp matters of relevance for suchp convo hfjjy no one is that the original discu representative were to draft and define rules and those rules of course,y do theyre recommendations to we cant decide forbjq9÷ anybody because we all showed up on u and did it or decide for 50 states here]n cy is what you have to do or decide for the convention. To that z njextent, n tank, its anun Academic Organization i think as jason described it. Its qene]cbk2 group q3ok coming study th yf ultimately make recommendations to our 50 statef[n legislatures. Thec about actually conducting af f convention is anything. Itq, be that when we gethc a convention, all hgyce th u c speakers and president of the senate a say, thanks for your work, here is how were going to do that. If thats the way it is thats fine. Has to have the keys to convention u2bfo. Somebody has to buy the gavel and hire staff and do all xq wnprthink this would be a good o cf1 o vessel for all of thatj rd ofxg6 work ify61es ultimately our organization, the assembly of state legislaturing isnt that thats fine. We think5 financep indianapolis. Its the appt, v ateg v7 we are going to be having income which atmnn has only been the÷ from the individual legislatures and i believe that3ythe only kind of contributionam 3 n were9 6o going to have. Going to apply trz for 501 c 6wt status if thatst2;n needed, itj go and do that. Now, articlenkm ii deals with membership. Very2kz. Simply there are 50 members ofj9 is orgy its the 50 mn state. nu2x legislatures26s t 1sz are tv t entities asabmvobmp describedt z1n in article v itself. The number of those arent going to change unless we have a 51iri÷st back out but i dont thinchnf that will lvi ÷x sectionzpre a. Indicateskfmnj that each state is represented by a delegation. Now, onejfik of the things or one of at mt. H÷ vernon andl c also in indianapolis whichaxfa q continuing today on behalf of thee zx myaut legislature . Is it people 9ii÷ is it only the ] t speakerslsqu and the presi what about the minorityj and what we defined is there is going to be a delegation from . Tln each state. And each on and obviously were not going to bj have tvh legislatures at eachfh meeting butsvtm there will be a delegation that comes and speaks for each state and votes for each ÷ sectione section iii talks about each state will have a maximum three members. P im going to talk about how we got to that c number as we afio gon1h through. Section 4 is talkstx about who is who are appointed. K, the president of the senate3÷fc and the speaker of the house will each or the majority leaders as we describe in here, thepqe5 majority leaders in each house4a8x each appoint one person. The mi. iu n ds leadersg appoint a third person. And that is the thats how people. Now, theres uf7÷ and hopefully well havg÷ some debate of peop. Gcug wonderinga why is that . Sxfores a whole number of scenarios. e d n indianapolis we had one person show up from colorado is actually we had two, neither of them zqofbqz r 2[ aujauz comeeiui to that5wvo or i shouldnt say wouldnt, they failed to. 4aq participate. And if adds thatyistates delegation they can if thez to, then the majority may be losing that opportunity tod participate. Gfo12i so, what this plan doeseg . S isa the majoritd asb< majority, to continue to control course gives thea opportunity to participate. And these are and theres8bqg0 r t hahp hc course going to be some complicated scenarios because we may have h0÷ situations or we do have situations where theres one house thats z 9e r t hahp hc one house thasozb3democrat. N n obviously those twoats÷ leadersnu can appoint someone. But who 4÷ picks the third if a republican and democrat minority leader cant choose that third . And the÷ is thats going to be up to then if theyre only going to send two peop theyrdy5 pick a third, thats going tov up2xe 1x them. And uez qfrankly, thats thecx v only what i view as sort of the g m ill eyw all thejmh; this and th] twell start it up. Thats okay. B eo all right. And ofapd rse section p s v as the nebraska provision. Av theres equal representation in other words, a delegation can be example, therecn Minority Party doesnt fails to be1n but in no event will a delegation all be members of one party. u and ifx you have a state, for example, zc]a9 n that is republican on inlf[ox both ilinstances in both thcz n houseo2 and the senate and n for whatever reasonaa that minority leader is the democratdxa4n minority leaders dontn i4n choose tobmism1f6 appoint pyv someone, they cant say, well the thirdv0 guy will be a . 8n republican too. We all have our different convention can be. Getting to 34 stateslbvn for a convention and getting to 38 ns going to take both} qj it. Whatever it is that you b8 pbcf1 o is important to you. So, we havesc n to x k5 organization. Nc1m 1n as i just mentioned in1 qgnw r t hahp hc section viie are if there are less than three delegates if theres only one from that state, however appointed, that person or persons if3 4x z theresv that is your delegation. And wha qzn were a ÷ fscdjt to 1 participate1mt andjed;u oth gh are participating, we want to say the folks who are participating and appointing folks, were going to recognize those as theu ftksvsc state delegation3rip r t hahp hc and i understand in some 0 hahp hc instances ud amay be that majority leaders in both houses dont appoint and only a minority member ispea7f but we want to encourage folks that if you dontzaqkn like howqbn your[6qgu state voted and youre aq[msi hahp bktsp ority leader and, hey, i didnt appoint that person any way, then you should appoint peopleu come andcn . nqhax9 provision because we have a va 3ijt scenarios in this organization. We didepm in indianapolis. We hadtabi folks who heard about it and8÷ showed up. We had folks who were appointed qdm[nf1 o by a minority leader but nobody in the majority. We had folks who asked the ns p Speakers Office if it was okay q÷ getting paid here. And if we have people who care about this issue becau we want to we want t they can vn meaningfully participate as much as possible, even if therj appointingeh jf uthority in your state and we think that c. Ill talk about who we is in a second, we think that itsan important for you x to participate3 4eithat. Delegation, were going to allow that. Now, that is going to be a joint decision between then copresident s anda m the reasonmoint wea÷ z do that is there may be a number of stat eo4d÷ arentb80 y appointing anybody and arent sending anybody for whatever reason and it may be that thats what that state wants to do bek a number of folks come fromqqz jz ci oppositebazr t hahp hc party and say, well, were here and that may not be to the advantapla another. And so both the8l0 democrat and the republican copresident are goinz to have tor v]jyln hw agree i hat4z person can serve. Coming here and itgs dont have an agenda. Its prettyq3c5n[uy ci rhidzbenign. They want to make sure that the process moves nsynforward, our process meaning drafts rules and. 1 procedures. So thats the reason we included;bm that provision in here. An article on hy8 vgovernance. There are multipleo wpj5 made as we go forward. If you look at your rules for your own hou[ 0f7 or senate back home, thats kind of a thick book. And we mayy decisions about do wet the rules if ultimately we come tomb a product an 0a we have rules and procedures that we want to sendlon out, for examplews0c does that do thoseq3hbules have to be approved unanimously . Is it by two thirds . u5 two thirds of the memberst,z ao÷v ws present . 26i ÷e members, exactly whaj z that is. And cf . Who is going to serve onx committees . Are we going to rotate that yn among areas of the state among Party Members . Rb k yi are the be . How are we going to pay for it . Multiple otheri xw decisions and ordinarily drafting bylaws someay of thoseo4s the if i was doing thisugwj for a private client i may include t juv when is91the annual t j where w what time, first monday in december things like]c that. We havwdmn diversez people to try to talk about whataac uhp hc ish b artic b iiib puts inh place a decision making18a÷vxbem process that isq÷ r t hahp hc again allows4 n protection for both parties entities should n allows7ddn the5r membersvato either void or invalidate or validate thegfc decisions of the copresident s. So, at the initial meeting of the each partyz, copresident. And uun . T majority of the states shall suff1ym of each 4p÷copresident. Kw herefern today. a tomorrow, but in eachu annual meeting which isntn a in these bylaws butq december therewa u s be a 9n58b was all veryytny kind of knew who wj;c that was going to b it may be that the republicans ne8bm year say you karen as our copresident nexttun year and the democrats have someone else and thats going tot6f]a t hahp hc be up to the democrats and theaici republicans to decide. But zyear, were going to ai ÷ an election2sioln to8 and as we formally did today, we a; eahat a Vice President be appointed because its a loj [y of |cn that Vice President to go to6 h a meeting that he or she cant attend. No7 . aq urjz iii i thinke]n is essentially theizb session orvspk the sectionvzabaoilzuze9÷ pointmentsev executive commi have done we infornlly over the shall draft a c cu jh regulations which shall govern the assembly. Those are some of the5 was talking about 1o when are the6j z meetings going to ] be . What vote ÷ counts do we have to get differente0rgs nl ktdone . oq is it jan a majority for some, two thirds for others . How many committees shall we have . Do we d eujt ut staff . n4fl all of those kinds of things thelcga executive committee will be responsible for in putting in the code of regulations because folks who are coming here are going to want 11 to know, when are how are we voting it out . aze< none of us, i dont think myself or anybody in the execu 37jn1j committee, want t this toy okay, we made a bunchnfey of d. Decisions and now we want you all to osyp approve it. Some of theseu y decisions are others. [n3n butwt code of regulations and the executivesnn committeez is are things that are going÷5 to allow us to understand how thosebob committeey ay delegate that to an appropriate Sub Committee to draft the code of z z bjjregulations. n now, of course any decision of the copresident s or the executive of the committee may beu of the majority of the members. So, if theyre doing a bad job obviously ultimately thes, power in any organizationn Corporation Shareholders and not for profit ae corporation,t at members,mdthose km7 decisions can be voided. Section v is it shall be hahp hc state. We have, i think has been an issue that has been part of the Article V Convention although we have some different yfp,4tj comments about that about the ultimater h4i convention. So whenrq we get there,ae well haven3w those discussions too. Of course these bylawsun can been amended. Well have to have them. I assume there will be amendments or multipl aa the course of the next several go forward. Again, this isga i a bare bones document. Who isu4 should also beo deciding who gets to stand up and speak so ill ask senator needer hauser to lead that discussion at this before i leave the mich senator ill just make a motion that the bylaws be. N]o approved and adopted by thee ceu rpn;t we have a motion to approve the wn do we have a second . Okay. o o q4÷ n second noted. Were debating the bylaws. So if you have any discussiofzp on the bylaws, now is the state your name . ,u we have a mic. J auzug . je6kds thank you. The point of [ debate for me would be sectionyau iv. Although this wom situation, i would suggest that if Majority Party does not participatezrsdx in this process, in]fn either chamber particularly if you have a split legislature are you talking about arti ii section 4 . Yes, sir. Thank you. N ÷a i so, this is beingbdez broadca3pi. Letjqpove you a4ubnrestate your w name and the state yourefp from. Representative lori sainec6 from the state of colorado. Im bringingc¿ section 4,if this is the ideal enshrine, however, where there is a split3y legislature and where a Majority Party to act inctoz selecting a i think ]h constitution0÷ and probablyt state constitutions probably h; all of tdmie them is the concept of 7io majority rule and minority ,nkykdeainnrights. Thats what our constitution rnz thats what thep cc bill ofanye[h z rights is about that the government can pass l d pc but aq e ara fundamentalu d rights for the minority no matter what the majority may do. Andukrvwx the scenario it would probably be as good idea toa tx walk through eachuz of thosesaen 6r tscenarios. N we either have s xn Party Controls both housesg apzn split. D now, in the situation where the repre l4[aive isns where one party8m controls both houses, in one of thefek houses or either of the house choose not to participate at dall we 0 stqr have thedv appointing that person and thatksx person is the delegateza6jn andt9b that is the deleg1hhgw if the mar . Jurorty chooses not to participate. If we have a situation well,5smn lets go specifically to your situation where we have j÷ a majority leader choosing not to tsxppoint to appoint someone and theres a minority leader that also failed to appoint0a someone that thea3 copresb n th w well have an entity and ill pick af i hahp hc massachusetts,defnbqc for example, may say thepfg democrat c7 president and the democrat speaker of the house may say were not appointing anybody. And the minority may say we are goiz8c to appoint ibo someone. If theseg3ft] two folks fail, then the minority leaders say, were going tou iapen appoint two morep republicans. Two folks, our bylaws p . Recognize that person as the delegation these bylaws thats the impetus to get theogn zb majority folks to represent someone. The reason we want theb3id democrats appointed is foqh9 purposes of legitoc7m uz masy. For most of the general assembly. Hh t hahp hc and i know weve talked about that and this wa 6q best way that we could i think that i could address your3 concerns of othergn n people. n lastle26t meeting. a ÷ representative . Thank you so much, senator. All due respect, im not trying to make it thatd complicated, we have a split legislature in colorado where as thegatarent hasp h2c1m appointed oi officially senator kevin where as tpn the other side isvw democrat two delegates ifi leadership and . X one chamber does not appoint,c÷j immediately the second delegate should be appointed by the minority leader. Im sure i wasnt clear on that. Okay. Further discussion . Youre just in making a discussion youre not offering anj . Nendment at this point . Notj okay. Yes. St vka state. Thank you. Senator mike bell from tennessee. Im going to make ah jx procedural motionipv and that procedurali 4÷thy motion be that we divide theiny question. At first i was considering every article and everyvsy zsection but i think myc to be divided among the articles thatiomcn we then article; discussion will be aroundu pwm r t hahp hc article ii. It will give us time to pick thewzcgwhanging381n fruit by adoptingof]zx i er andsraat then take up article9fefdii. My motion is that we divide the÷ok,br t hahp hc quedgn and then take up theseuaw bylaws not pp5s a whole but as individual4 d uk articles. Okay. Soczn we have a 3vdvqirdivision. X and acp lets xhymn representative huffman. Cng dontlzthh i think ultimately what imwpf6 8jing for is some a on this today and if we get to a point at some point where we can decide how it is thatsatb÷ work on that tonight and thenw u make a 1 0n final approval oosr the bylaws77< morning. Appropriate. We ought to talk about one thing at a time. That would be c2chelpful. n . Cdvkay. Efficient amendmentspb ju tomorrow . Anyel opposition to that . Do you have a comment on that procedure . Would you hand the micn vnback. Thank ; k some controversy and take themvcba out anddjsmn consider them secondarily v go ahead and maybe a,jujut the z6zen remainder of the document. I think that wouldzia÷ make more sense because them4 v4n sections im h÷ identifying, well,dl in the same article. Representative jones while you have the micd db the question i was presenting to theld everybody okay with having the discussion todayqwhlw and making official amendments tomorrow. Are youn qn with that . Im okay with that. So theres a motion on the o floor. Yeah. We already have the motionck to approve the minutes. Today we want to have jc the . 2b2znpdc discussion about the motion of r approving this and p7 so so i and we can have this q discussion. Back to you,t0my representative bell. Ypacnd im fine with thatavn approach. Wasnt clear that thats what we were doingb8 ati ÷ this time, but im absolutely fine with that. Fn approach. I would like to take upsman disse 9a mzt÷ on section article i withdraw my yi ycmotion. Ixpa nmez sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Szfej 0 t i would like to take up discussiong7jn on i; articlcp7ue 4. bu h kay go ahead. Some of you may have been in indianapolis may remember i ]fryt languagee tz 3q4n thisnnrning in my hotel roomdn ÷ took[flxuas a brief look at a number of states, some of them who here today who we hope to haveg part of this prosaysqs time. One of those states being a[a very, very blue state. Hawaii. Hawaii right now has a legislature that is vo 6q nh cjxdividedo 679. I 241 in the state i think its very conceivable that you could have a6n state senateu completely ivcv i dont remember the0a number, butt 1yz they only have eight from the Minority Party. Then you have the state ofz0c wyoming wh;v÷ you havek 264 in the senate. An overall number of i believe also causesj gt÷ states, such as xdchawaii such aswe< to be overrepresentedcnbni . Underrepresented from distinct political views from those9 1 z states. Tennessee where i come from would alsoygba states where if we had2 tm[ t urp e oversight and when were giving direction tor n the be it the governor or the legislative l÷ vcm jz make appointments t that particularn ncpxentity, we ask them to consider with language similar to thisuz that we urge thepd] states the speakers of h[t÷mu pr t hahp hc president s to send a delegation of up to three and that that delegationfdy y closely reflect the political makeup of the representative chambers. This] m language thatn5v we are considering has problems as well. And it has problems in that it ojyyala h from onez e÷ just red states2z[ butu as well. I know were everything from a bipartisan approach but we will have a body thatniy have hawaii participating. Is hawaii going to want to nfwvhs ndf6m a threeperson ya delegation that overrepresents thebmn Minority Party . I dont think so. L that has an overwhelm9t majority, i would uncomfortable with thecu77fv[ language that were asking to consider today. Thank you. Thank you representative bell. Our discussion isj jz imia zmi pi going to have us focus on this ciem 4v sec q article ii section 4. L1i yes. Representative townsend frompjr÷ arizona. Before i begin and i didnt gck want to interrupt, do we not need a motion toxxvq instead of voting these bylaws to discuss . Because we had a different nowcffffiaa i3o think well just okay. Were going to move ahead and have theucfx discussion. Okay. So just clarifying that. Thank you. And6 just wantayn topo echo my colle furtherewcpb part of the bylawsdo bezn representative of article x excuse me the 10th amendment that allows the statesd decide. Is that why we are0 and i think thatp anything, our state in arizona has dsj ownmf4set of al0a challenges and according to the actual legal wording of these bylawsnd puts me in particular the waybg that these arajj written in a place wherevbqf uld 8hpqw to be2ebr appointed according tojsab the language and wording that thats in there. So i think9 complication is such;8 c from statej direction to the states ;bkis going to create compln to recommend that we just make p9 it simple and leave it to thea ddse z o ora in< 8aecu vudecide. Mrs. Chairman representative huffman. This is an important issue. Were not talking about who j theh< delegaerb;;iu s be to the convention. Thats whether ultimately the rules that we9 producet going indication like say at j÷ thisbja÷ point. This is under a not for profit if you 10÷ had 50< the 53 members of the Cleveland Browns and8o thatsae well, we know who they are. Were not going toplz÷ people come and qmvote. So, its simply a how be given or statedzdgy wsnunsaun ctyhere . State is ÷n we could do that, but who howel do we bpg÷ know who that is . Is it again the person whot interested in this4ko soiyn÷ im deciding zi thats p lya w what w w8 to nr concerned about as ive gone the gentlemansr q fromeey i[ma÷tennesseea [mn zu arjr j2dixn lets let the state kek legislatures, you make it up as close as you can to the political makeup,7gc that doesnt help the representative from colorado. Ok [ ] and if your stateop6jy of lets help ormos xhalets ,dd58o ; arq states decide, that doesnt help the representative from colorado. And if we . nn and in the great stateku know what, were not appointing any democrats and that may happen to many dem1kq 5ij r t hahp hc republicans across dnfjo counsel industry. So each of the things that yourewq the question w dnis, at somea7 b point we have tovqx boil this down to a plan that doesnt interrupt or upset a number of ch othersiahp hc the last thin . 4 r i will say is this doep4help me either. Ik 1 tdn going to be a state5n e÷g÷v h t hahp hc legislature so i cant beh,0n appointed which hardly seems det r . We cant makerv on any individual here can be appointed. We have that at the first mt. Sl vernon assembly. Somebody said nobody will ever one of the ap legislaturea ie8rujttk would ever appoint 6,÷ me, which so this is a document thats going towhe÷ last of course, houses and senates go back and forth depending on parties also. But these are valid points youre making. Tun absolutely. And i would. R kxkn add to that i think what you could doh clear it up is takecln section viii, remove it andcnl apply itz toa section iv of article;err to clarify. Its one in the same vbezissue. And its tacked so9ur t you were to take section viii and put it on section iv and 0nn the first part,u1 the6 ÷ current section iv so to where its noto that it does alou to the t in some kind of conflict the states can move in a different movement thate qp 7de f . B looking for then this body can then appoint. Ill leave it there. Thank you, representative townsend. Right here. ng representative from south dakota. My colleague, jim has a comment as well on this section. One of the things looking to obtain here is k,mn increased participation. I believe that possibl increasing the numbers of officialek x delegates might be d helpful,npd will effect the number of people who are able to yigo in some cases and the peopleu2t8n who are interested in going in cases and ill letnn my colleague representative continue with his comments. ÷ 4 representative from is south dakota, ly at them trying to move this thing forward. Thank you. Okay. Zm;j representative, thank q 3you. Lets have the gentleman right there. Im the one holding the a ax mic ]÷re. Okay. Im]gv arthur q orr from alabama gentlemen just said about having we hadi discussed know if representative taxxhuffman2iahp hc had a reason for narrowing it down tox [nthree. nl sure theres a xahz reason behind it. Respond. F aazn yeah. Mr. Chairman . Go ahead. First of all,h[ i think thats a reasonable proposal. Theres a couple of reasonspv nd we came down withq with three. But i think what the representative from south dakota has mentioned probablyny supersedes most of; reasons. Ill give you those real quick. One is it costs a lot of money to send people here. Ultimately we have to make provisions for everyonetb v9a ere. Those are twoicf0vpdon things. Thirdnuqy÷ thing is, it have an odd numbergvc when you have to, things. Somebody has to make asaf decision. Dont say five because makes it even moreqsc complicated. And, you know, also arej that are going to send six people every timem because they can afford itf orcfn u becausea closer or theyre more interested orp8z whatever it is. Were going to have oermg states that are always going to send one person. Qgh and on the . Committees,cxb u and . n thino t[w1dg÷ like 1aun that rn it vab;amay and i think a lot of that can be controlled of3auja u e Committee Makeup comes through the copresident s and things like that. So if the answer is and it may solve anh it will solvem z÷ all of the, us but if the answer isg each delegation a sixmembertwvxogl delegation and majorityocr in each house, eachioue k h z8nx c vnl,s l2 andvl6e the minorities leaders. 1 and that might help the problem. Okay to that end in alabama thats how we make up our two for the minority8[mdhjat forh 3n the majority er in each n house. Since mountvi vernon has gone through the be much better. Also we are, mosts u c of us, are parttime legislators. And coming to mee4hd sometimes ofx course you gethwb8tqi retirements from the legislature sorts of conflicts where people dtr t hahp hc are able to go not azal go. Md if you only narrows closes down. You may just1au have one particular meeting9c representing aas stay and it may be somebody from the minority mupnparty. Anyway, six5xiku . For the majority, one froauez minority in3u;ze\nl3 chamber, the purple states whereg7 representative h 0xcn mentioned that butmbmz÷ i couldp40jc seek situation if we were a divided state, thath,wn tn third person, being chosen by thean Minority Party we have ours in one houseu2 in the other might not eversi r so again on behalf of alabama, we would1g certainly be tr in5[[ favor v t hahp hc of having six inserted there for tomorrow. Thank you, senator. 7br lets have further discussion . Go ahead. Yeah, im john wood from florida. A couple of technical clarifications. I thinkh its the intent of thisls eu document that any wy i think were talking about republicanso2ve and democrats. And if thats what were talkingva1tp that because you know,sx2bi youre a minority political party, you might be a party[j one. The u1 libertarian, theicxe÷ i knowr in farmworkers or Something Like that. Or whatever, imrsefn mean, you know. Clear. Talking about but when we go. And thenu 1p expansion of the p delegations. Obviously ÷floridas got quite a large one here. But i think more important,gv n weve gotcw u to thinky ,yn about that71dz this is a bipartisan politl movement4b0n to assert the compg0 in republic, to assert the sovereignties of the nstates. Why wouldnt we want everybody legislator in america to be a member of this organization. ic6n e and i would like to have some yzq of ct participation of everyga h0u legislative memberwmor or the opportunity for every ;qdn elected legislative statel5 ÷ legislature÷ this great memb ma maybe notol a26 my voting delegate. But to be a member of this association. 6mrze i and then my final, my final ]t and maybe it doesnt go to taju article section 4b8 q were talking about, but inlkb5y florida, we have a great ÷hn qi q 9of transparency. And i think thai hh this Organization Needs to be totally transparent and itsa totally public to the american people. Thank you. O,ta thankbz 8h [you. Representative wood. Gentleman here in the front row. K while the mics coming over chair, if i ld just respond. ajr i think those are good comments ly uuze need to clarify the elected 3m language and i thinkd 5 the transparency items are goingh to be something that the9 executive3bcommittee, how we publish those and put those on the o ywebsite,8 aspirational language7q about that can go into theibylaws if you want to give me something we can try to put this in there for final approval tomorrow. Z0 2n 3hco ]x the republican democrat thing public out there you know, sometimes the media talks about it. Im not sure whata senator in hawaii is. Is he a libertarian . Oh, he is a republican. If he decides to become a member of the constitutional f0iw party. But so you know, i dont i dont think we shouldnenshrine ÷ny]x 2a j p r t hahp hc but youre right. Gfn we are talking aboutpv republicans and democrats. Forget,nbyln so we will get back to you. But you had a third issue. Cbn p yeah. Well and about in fact there arer0c going to be, you know,÷tflorida i think2hn had 12 folks in indianapolisn7]ic we8ofv everybody to and we had i think we had somedhi designations as between d ,q etdxar do is say we wantyw everybody who wang1 xn come to come and participate in some meaningful v 2y way. But again this9÷ycy document is sj t hah skrati p out what happens at decision time. Who gets to decide. Wellmeaning ÷ comev 19p up from florida along with the 12; ht appointedxjab guys andc r galsu have a different opinion. The vote comes from the delegation. Who iss on thena delegation . But certainly we want everybodyg 1a ÷bu aiq aq 9 think thatuwy expanding it out tomm1k six address a lot of that, not all of it. Thank you. Lets go with the gentleman right here. Oh, yes. srn yk m6 i recognized you. . Q scott lambfeld from virginia. Im colleague and were looking at these provisions andq to all of you speak. And the thought occurcu1t to in anda . Want to be clear, thought occurs to me this youve got a couple of here}youre trying tous first of all, clearly youre how many people you haveqeud match. I understand that. 7 i think what youre hearing from people though in the room n is ng art size. Becausekdon you may have6c. Aiiiin surprise. And the surprise is, that youve might be ready to deal with. Rc and thats a good problem to have. 5 and therdc thing that sits inbfk my mind is important as we go forward is] to remember that thekc ultimate work product of what youreuve÷ proposing that we do isq0 to create rutl objection of everything youre trying do and right nowf n we are n having a big debate about bye6um bylaws. At the end of the day, someonex. Will make a e÷÷t[ugment about the legitimacy of what we have done hea 1 b go my÷ judgment, that wei8v7y ensure that ,r hen people6v ook from vdub4c riel the outside in, these folks bent over backwards to be inclusive and to have as many vus9s as n come to d mabthis so that int fact, when that convention and those old gray fathersd dcc sitting up there vn,6o o deciding whether or not to adopt the hard work of this group have to decision, they will say they did not constrain things. Sgy lzhosoa[ ]1h w what i would suggest to you is be a little careful about drilling downn un too deeply into how these delegations are determined. Bun do focusfmir on ayzz manageable number particularly aniliu number, because you have to manage with that in mind. But ath ÷ the same so y q who had been outside and willjt, outside, q convention, we will have to a judgment about what weve done here. Thank you representative. 8 . Wo were a think tank. In for the think tank work we have to have ideas and participation. In indianapolis we had just over 30. X we are leaving a lothuvez of states on the table. They are noth and to the senators point, w80÷c÷ going to be judgedda y later by how9 and how much work we did. [fwc so to the point of the three five or seven ; r is going to encourage qparticipation, in that if im m z ty leader andt4 < i decide not to send my cf two delegates but my minority leader to the state of indiana im not likely to miss the opportunity to send the majoritys voice with him. F38 l5z majority rule, minority writes. Ideas, it doesnt matter. But ultimately we need all 50 states here to have those because were notp at the8e we needgd ez 50 states. We need legislators here to carry theaatu; ideas back to all states. So if we