Lou u dobbs tonight starts right now. Good evening. The oama white house in controversy and ncapacity on almost every imaginable front. Turning first to the Iranian Nuclear talks, the white house has consiently portrayed that deal struck with iran as a dismantling of the islamic republics uranium enrichmen and Nuclear Weapons program. An end to missile delivery system. Iranian president hose san any declared that iran will not yield on the nuclear program. When asked last night by another network if the deal included the destruction of Center New Jersey he said, quote, note under any circumstance. White House Press Secretary trying to explain it away as spin for the, quote, domestic political purpose prompting the exchange with chief white house correspondentd henry. Cnn has broadcast outside of iran. You can confirm . Yeah. Ive seen it here. If our [inaudible] arent they sending a message to you to the president. Its not just domestic political consumption if they are talking to broader audience. Ed, what i can tell you is we are looking what the iranians are actually oing. Are they complying with the specific commitments they made in the joint plan of action . Domestically the president S Health Care law still churning out more bad news this ime for the entire u. S. Health insurance industry. Inversers Services Today downgraded the outlook on Health Care Insurers from stable to negative. Citing concerns with the Health Care Law andhe failed launch. Saying obamacare created to continue to uncertainty for the Health Care Industry taking issues with the fact only 24 of enrollees have been between the ages of 18 and 34. Saying that if the original 40 goal for young enrollment is not met, insurers will be forced to raise rats. And the attorney general today saying he would engage in conversation about a resolution with nsa leaker and traitor edward snowden. This comes just days after the president told the new yorker magazine, quote, i do not have a yes or no answer on clemency for edward snowden. The formatter nsa contractor responsible for the biggest breach of National Security in the nations history snowden himself today entertained questions in an online chat from moscow he said he never stole colleague log in to gain access to the massive drove of tsecret documents detailing government surveillance. Snowden also said, quote, not all spying is bad and the biggest problem is now, quote, the new technique of indiscriminate mass surveillance where governments are seizing billions and billions and billis of innocents communication every single day. Snowden, not the only one calling for the end to the balk Data Collection program run by the nsa. The fivemember privacy and civil liberty Oversight Board issued a report today saying the program is illegal and should be halted and has been largely useless and stopping terrorism. If youre not familiar with the pclob its an independent, Bipartisan Panel established by congress in 2004 to advise president s on matters related to privacy and civil celebrities. Theyreopinions dont have the force of law. The recommeations wont change government practices. And the private contractor who vetted both snowden and Washington Navy yard shooter aaron alexis is accused of defrauding the federal government. The Justice Department says u. S. Investigations services submitted at least 665,000 background checks that had not been properly completed and then tried to cover it up when the government suspected what the firm had done. Well take all of this up tonightwith retired fourstar army general jack kuhn. Hell discuss the iranian deal that almost everyone thought was impossible and may turn out that almost everyone was right. The ateam reacting tonight to Hillary Clintons newest political ally. The president s former campaign manager. Things getting interesting in the Democratic Party early. And the Republican National committee kicking off the winter meetings in tonights talk ill have a little more advice for the republican establishment from my book uphell. Relad to playing nice and being a party of inclusion and a much bigger tent. All of that much more straight ahead. It was an ugly day on wall street. Stocks sharply lower triple digits decline for the dow. Down 176 points. The s p lost 16. The nasdaq down 24 points. A bright spot netflix surging nearly 17 after netflix reported better than expected earnings, and more subscribers. Jobless claims holding steady. Rising 1,000 last week. 326,000 existing home sales moving up 1 last month. Sales up 9 in all of 2013 to the highest and best level in seven years. President obamas 2015 budget will be delivered a month late. The white house said the budget which is due on the first monday of february, will come out on march 4th. Official say work was delayed by th twobudget deal that Congress Passed last month. And the ominous spending bill which was passed last week. As for the president s wrk schedule, it was, well, simply a light day for the president. He talked with more than 250 mayors gathered in washington, d. C. , asking them to help him bypass congress. I want to work with Congress Whenever and whenever i can. One thing im emphasizing to all of my cabinet members is were not going to wait. Where congress is debating things and hasnt been able to pull the trigger on stuff, my administration is going to move forward and do it in partnership with all of you. So i believe the president just said hes going substitute h relationship with congress constitutionally to approximately to 250 city mayors instead. We see how that works out. President obama still unable to help public reception of te signature achievement obamacare. A new fox poll finds a recordhigh number of 59 oppose the Health Care Act and a record low 36 support it. And the irs at it again. A group of conservative hollywood entertainers now in the focu of the Internal Revenue service. The 1500 members of a Nonprofit Group called friends of and, keep a low profile trying to avoid being blacklisted in the liberaldomined industry. Now the irs is reviewing the activities in connection with the application for tax exempt status. Last week the irs presented the group with a 10point request for detailed informatn regarding the meetings for paul ryan and herman cain. Friends of aib is seeking 501c3 status which allows them to claim a Tax Deduction beprohibits them from partisan activity. We are coming back with much more in the way of todays developments. Irans mixed messages coreporting with capitalists in switzerland. Telling his people the west is bowing to iranian might. Were joined by retired army fourstar general on iranian propaganda. And the prospect for a nuclear deal with the islamic republic. Next. This is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. Its not the fumbling around with rotating categories card. Its not the etting blindsided by limits card. Its the nogameplaying, noearninglimithaving, deepbombthrowing, givemetheballandilltake ittothehouse, cash back card. This is the quicksilver cash card from capital one. Unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every single day. So let me ask you. Ats in your wallet . Over the pizza place on Chestnut Street the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreli down i95. This magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. And of those who believed they had thpower to do more. Dell is honored to be part of some of the worlds great stories. That began muchhe same way ours did in a little dorm room 2713 this magic moment this magic moment if. Heyreathings hard. E. Kn the feeling . Copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Spiriva is a oncedaily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. Spiriva helps me breathe easier. Spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fastacting inhalers for sudden symptoms. Tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. These may worsen with spiriva. Discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. Stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenlyorsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. Other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. Nothing can reverse copd. Iriva helps me breathe better. Does breathing with copd weigh you down . Dont wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. Syrias civil war. Both the Syrian Government and the opposition trying to overthrow the regime have agreed to sit down for district talks tomorrow. What would be the fit facetoface discussions between the two groups. Secretary of state kerry ramped up the Harsh Criticism of syian president. Assad is putting all of syra at risk today. Assad is responsible for the potential deconsistent gracious of syria, and the way assad is the single biggest magnet for terrorists there is. He is a oneman super magnet for terrorism. Lou syrias Prime Minister rejecting calls from kerry to remove assad from power. The white house today threatened sanctions against ukraine if violent clashes in the country continue to escalade. Protesters clashing with police on sunday because the government passed repressive laws aimed at stifling two months of mass demonstrations against what effectively is an administration that they believe is illegally elected. And against closer ties with russia rather than their preferred allies the europeans. They leave some scratching their heads in the reaction. Rans foreign minister accused the Obama Administration of completely misrepresenting a sixmonth nuclear deal in an interview last night he said the white house overstates the concessions they gained and that iran did not agree to dismantle anything. The white house today tried to down play those comments. Joining us now general jack keane. Former army chief of staff, fox news military analyst. General, the iranians are quite something. And so is the Obama Administration. This is it seems like more of a pr campaign than a resolve a conflict. Yeah. This negotiation, this deal has never made any sense to me. I think as much as the iranians lie in a disingenuous on a regular basis. I think the foreign minister is spot on. The fact of the matter is, they have done nothing to reduce the Nuclear Weapons infrastructure or the secret sites, their highly enriched uranium, the internew jersey. The program is in tact. What they promised to do is not progress any further. Because of the promise not progress, lou, we are removing sanctions. Es if make any sense to anybody . The answer is no. We should only remove sanctions is the program is dismantled. In the words of the foreign minister they are not dismantling anything. Lou as you say directly, we are lifting sanctions and more to the point, were shifting money to tehran in aordance to the agreement whatever the terms are, and that money is irretrievable. You betcha, lou. The iranians have manipulated and gamed us for 30 years while they are killing americans and others around world using proxy. They have been lying and cheating when it comes to the development of Nuclear Weapons for 20 years. They gamed us here and check mark for them. They got the better of the deal by far. Lou the nsa, a fivemember board frankly, i have never paid attention to. I cant honestly i have never of it. The privacy and oversight without any executive power essential no power of law saying that the nsa saying viable Legal Foundation has shown only limited value. Those are rather sweeping statements from a board comprised one fulltime employee and four parttime members. Yeah. Thats only welcome their opinion. You know and our viewers know that many federal courts have looked at the program and found it to be legal. One district judge disagrees with that. The overwhelming evidence is that it is legal. Even the president review panel believes the program should continue. They think it should be in a difficult location than the nsa. Nonethelss, they think the program should continue. I believe this program is going to continue because its vital for National Security. Lou and, general, edward saying that admiral mullen saying americans are forgetting those who made the ultimate sacrifice for this nation. Are killed, quote, dirty little war. Your thought about the admirals remarks. Well, the fact of the matter is, the American People have great passion for for our troops. They appreciate the sacrifices being made. They dont have a daily association with it because, you know, less than 1 is involved in the conflict. They never have so few done so much for so long for so many is the issue on the table. Hat doesnt mean that because they dontee know or soldier or Family Member who is involved they dont care. I mean, that is just doesnt pass my common sense test. Im out talking to merican people on a regular basis, and i know for a fact they care. They support our troops, they want them to do well. They want them to win. They want them to come home also. Lou general, thank you very much for being with us. General jack keane. Up next. A major obama adviser throwing his early support behind Hillary Clintons early, early run for the presidency. The anniversary of controversial comments. Could those keep her out of the white house . Well be talking with one the leading conservative activist who has a brand new ad to celebrate the anniversary. Celebrate the anniversary. David [ male announcer ] e new new york is ope open to innovation. Open to ambition. Open to boldids. Thats why n york has a new plan dozens of tax free zones all across the state. Move here, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years. Were new york. If theres something that creates more jobs, and ows more businesses. Were open to it. Start a taxfree business at startupny. Com. The country now raising money to put Hillary Clinton in the white house despite the fact she hasnt announced her candidacy formally or any other way. Priorities action u. S. A. Raised nearly just about 30 billion in 2012. Excuse me, 80 billion. And will be cochaired by Barack Obamas campaign manager. And former michigan governor jennifer. Thats exciting news. It comes exactly one year to the day after mrs. Clinton testified about the benghazi terrorist attack. Our nex Guest Organization released a new web video to commemorate the occasion. That was easily that was not the fact but. People could have known it was in days. And ty didnt with all due respect. The fact is we have four dead americans. The protest or guys out for a walk one night and decided to ill some americans. What difference at this point does it make . It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again. Lou joining us now david, president of citizens united. A powerful, powerful ad you put together there, david. Thank you very much, lou. Its important. Look, the American People deserve the answers to what went in on benghazi. One year later after her testimony, we dont know much more than we did then. The Senate Report a democrat report came out and said it was preventable. So were deeply concerned about what was going on with Hillary Clinton and where she looks like shes going with the super pac building its fundraising base here. Lou what do you make of that effort jim going over to lead the way to whenever mrs. Clinton wants to go in 2016. Theyre starting to get organized pretty qickly. I dont see the same sort of lets put it this way, energy developing on the republican side yet. That is exactly right. Look, you hit it on the head. They raised nearly and spent nearly 80 million for barack obama in 2012. Theyre going to have an enormous amount of money. Clearly its a little bit enttaining to me. The president of citizens united, our preme court case is allowing her to have a super pac. Its actually lou shes of coue. She will. That will be more hypocrisy from Hillary Clinton and the clintons. It goes with their style. But, look, benghazi is important and the American People deserve aners. Thats why a year to the day we released this very important video. We wanted everybody to remember it while all of these other issues were trying to be van i didded about. Let turn to the republicans. Youre a leading conservative in the country. An activist and advocate. Why dont we get the sense that the Republican Party is just rolling over for the midterm. I dont see any ign of organization, a common theme, a common set of values, and i see a war between the g. O. P. Estblishment and the tea party, which is madness in of itself. It wilturn off republicans, it will turn off independents. It is nuts. Well, youre exactly right. Look, i lay it right at the feet of john boehner. I believe that the failure of leadership in the house of representatives, the failureto have apositive agenda for america whether its solid economic progrowth economic policy, whether its social policy, foreign policy. Coming out of the congress it is failure at every level. So i dont see a positive way for republicans whether theyre a mod raid, conservative, Tea Party Members to gather behind. Thats really disconcerting as a conservative leader. Lou let me ask you this. As a conservative leader, why dont you draft the message start bringing people together. There needs to be an adult in the republican room. Right now that person isnt standing up. Not want to a man, not a woman, no one is standing up and saying this is the way were going move forward. Lets rally around this standard, this set of values, and principles and energize the party and the country. Without you guys creating a counter ailing influence to the Democratic Party, everything you talk about, every single major issue is going to be rolled over and stamped in to permanent on capitol hill. Look, i totally agree with you. There is a group of conservatives that are trying to work through the house leadership. Trying to work with them to try to do exactly that. Create some thing a rallying cry. We thought it would be obamacare. The repeal, the replacement of obamacare. Lou its not republican success. Its obama failure. The Republican Party has to stand for something here. And actually have a view for the future. Well, youre 100 right. Thats one of the things that we try to do, and one of the things i know other conservative leaders do is try to bring about positive conservative policies that the American People can see the positive agenda for the future of america. American families and our children. And that is really what weve been working forward to progress lou do you go ahead. Lou do you think that republican the g. O. P. Establishment leadership, including conservatives, are they wise enough to learn they have screwed up two election cycles, they wouldnt have won in 2010 without the tea party. And whoever they think they are, all theyre doing right now is repeating their mistakes of the past. They have no new idea. Theyre recycling the same leadership whether its at the rnc, whether it has been fundraising and strategieses, and there is no sense of a generational surge of ideas, of energy, and dreams. A vision. We have no true visionary leaders in our party. Its daytoday. Its micromanagement. Its really what its become. Not any type of global 35,000foot view of what america could be. Thats really troubling to me. Thats why when they attack the tea party, and try to divide the Republican Party in to smaller bits and pieces, it devastating to what is going to happen. Look, we could have a tsunami this election cycle, but its because of the deviciveness among the moderate and the Republican Party, in my opinion, that really were going to harm ourselves. Lou the moderates, you think, are the problem . I think thats right. You look at the lou wait a minute. Look at the war. Lou you said your piece. Let me say mine. Are we talking about boehner . Are we talking about mcconnell . Are we talking bout carl rove and the fundraisers and the strategieses . What are these people . , i mean, theyre your leaders and your party. Theyre not mine they are leaders. Theyrnot necessarily my leaders. Ly say this. Look, youre exactly right. Who is to blame . I would say to you this, i would submit this, the war on the tea party is certaly not being waged by conservatives. Its being waged by the lou you guys arent standing up and saying, you know, if you keep it up, were going to call you out now inspect is not the y to operate. I havent heard one single Tea Party Candidate or congressman or senaor saying this is not going to stand. This is not the way were going to behave. These are not the messages were going to allow to be articulated. Were going to come together. Have a meeting, for gods sake. The influence to an administration that is devastating. Absolutely. I can tell you, im looking forward to about six weeks from now five weeks from now the c pac the consvative political action. The conservative leadership from around the country comes together. I think were going have a galvanizing force there in march and really come together toward this lou you have been Holding Meetings forever. When is the last president ial election what was the last conservative who went to the white house . What is the ast time you guys marched on abortion. When is the last time you decided gay marriage was the threat to traditional heterosexual marriage. You guys, how about opening your arms and bridging people in . Steve how about, you know, see embrace. [laughter] look, lou, you and i agree on most of these things. Ronald reagans of the last conservative reelected in 1984. His reelection. Lou what did the last republican elective say to do . The 11thcommandment. Thats right. Well, thats right. Lou of a republican. And you guys conservatives conservatives and moderates. Well, you know, were pals. I can give you as pass. But the fact of the matter is, i mean, you guys are tearing it up. Its a shame because you have a country depending on better. We do. We need to find good, conservative candidates who will carry that banner forward. Lou lord, we have an election in about 284 days. Somebody better start moving. David, we thank you for being here, sir. Always good to see you. Please take a minute and pick up a copy of my new book upheaval. You might get a sense of why i choose the tight. Online boostores everywhere. Walmart, you name it, weve got it loudobbs. Com. Links to all of the folks selling the book. Im giving out copy who wrtes an email, tweet, facebook, you name it. I read it on the air. Here are some of tonights comments and winners. Dorothy wrote say i watch your show every night with my husband. Please keep talking to the Republican Party. 2014 is their last chance. I think you may well be right. Phillip tweeted to say Hillary Clinton sacrificed the lives of four brave americans to salvage her own career. Gross and unforgivable. Dean tweeted about our good friend, harry reid. Senator reid is as orrupt as they come in congss. He probably cheated and stole his reelection. No, i have todisagree on that. I think the republicans gave it away. Hope they dont do a lot of that this time. We would like to hear from you. Email me. Follow us on twitter. Go to our facebook page. Links to everything found at loudobbs. Com. A triple digits declin on the dow. Thats unusual. We take it up next. We are coming right back. Stay with us. The tea party under attack. From the republican establishment. What happened to reagans 11th commandment. Some helpful suggestions for the more thoughtful among the republicaneadership. In tonights chalk talk based on my new bookx÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷ lou we had an impressive selloff today on wall street here to talk about what is driving that selloff the chief economist for marketresearch and from the bank of new york, a good to have you here. This looked bad today. It started off with the purchasing agents p. M. I. That fell and people wanted to ignore the data that was mixed the datapoint negative for china that is what they decide was most important. Lou i am confused. I know people are more sophisticated than i am but chinas production economy is not a consumption. For these equities markets still george that to reach across to europe. What kind of gave is going on and . This is a sentiment driven marketplace they have a fomc from the marketplace the market wants to selloff it is looking for an excuse to do so. Title bout with negative numbers. Lou i dont mean to make anybody nervous janet yellen times are changing. Because the fed will continue to take security purchases probably cutting another 10 billion probably at 65 billion and here is what is important at the fomc meeting there will have a good reading rethink a number like three and a half or 3. Seven 5 with that in mind they taper it can be follow title from china. Lou the market itself . If we get to 10 billion that is where economists expect i dont think that this is of saddling. You were looking 15 in the dow jones in the s p 500 were in the process of a great irritation of cash from bonds into equities lasting four or five years it is very positive. We got used to a priceearnings multiple of around 20 22. Lou we hope that is not too far. Good to see you. Listen to my of produce reports three times a day of the Radio Network coast to coast. Chuckchumer ptecting the twoparty with my book upheaval and republicans should not do that. [ intercom ] drivers, to your marks. Go [ male announcer ] its chaos out there. But the mclass sees in your blind spot. Pulls you back into your lane. Even brakes all by itself. Its almost like it couldnt crash. Even if it tried. The 2014 mclass. See your authorized dealer for exceptional offers through mercedesbenz financial services. Is your tv powered by coal . Natural gas . Nuclear . Or renewables like solar. And wind . Lets find out. This is where americas electricity comes from. A diversity of Energy Sources helps ensure the electricity we need is reliable. Take the energy quiz. Energy lives here. Lou lets talk. Just you and me the york the become a wastelands if they have their way. Of plays with sullivan the liberals but senator Chuck Schumer with his ranting against the tea party at the center for American Progress ever since the rise of 2,009 the tea party influence h been undeniable. Sty be democratic priorities , taking selection data programs are important to tens of millions of americans. Lou id extended beyond the tea party because he cannot tolerate a few points that differ from his own. The power of the Message Machine and led by Rush Limbaugh and fox news to broadcast the same false message instantaneously means what the tea party has used to a cent. Lou we cannot see the things were differently unless we desperaty tried. From my new book upheaval. Nowadays learn from 2010 but only the tea party in 2010 stood between this president and the full implementation of what i believe would have spent disastrous consequences for the nation. Even with historic victory in Republican Congress also prevaid to blunt some of the dishes to expand without limit the size and power of our federal government. Lou talking about governor of new york you drew about they have joined with House Speaker john baker and Mitch Mcconnell and karl rove as they combine to attack the tea party in drive it from the republicans grip but as i bright what he hates most is what the constitution intended the government of checks and balances so i believe the Republican Party come i am an independent, is the best hope to stave off the prospect of democrats keeping control of the senate and taking back the house of the midterm election. To of hundred 84 days away so i help you pick up a copy of my book upheaval or the ideal book. Buy it every where i tombs, amazon, barnes noble weedy to help the g. O. P. Leadership learn from its mistakes the a team. Next. As a business owner, im constantly putting out fires. So i deserve a Small Business credit card with amazing rewards. With the spark cascard from capital one, i get 2 cash back on ery purchase, every day. I break my back around here. Finally soones recognizing me with unlimited rewards meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer get the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose 2 cash back or double miles on every purchase, every d. Whats in your wallet . I need your timesheets, larry i know, its a lot to take in. Thats why ive conducted this comprehensive analysis, comparing my prices to my competitors, so you know youre getting a good deal, even if its not with me pretty rad, right . What is she talking about . I have no idea. [ bell rings ] ill take everything. What . man on p. A. comparing rates since back in the day. Lou en the a team tonight columnist and Fox News Contributor and a democratic strategist great to have you with us. And the executive directors agreed dash shaffer. Let me start going over hilarys operation and but it seems republicans would have said wise to double the author to bring it to the Republican Party. What do you seek . The Republican Party has failed to how they make seeing this figure. With that satisfaction friday only 18 percent trust the government. Lou 80 of the country . But the republicans dont get it. But it is a way that is motivating. Health care, energy, workplace reform comedy regulation is so much. Lou is it a foregone conclusion of the republicans are so inept they cannot take back the senate with this historic opportunity in it is amazing to watch. Is strewing it is faltering and clearly Chris Christie did not he but going over is not such a of a great side for vice presidt bided. He was taking a look that is definitely an interesting saying that is happening today. There are seldom the place is to start. With National Security and attorneygeneralo to contemplate some sort of arrangement . Ts is the save eric holder th agreed bided that made agreed light around the clinton president ial library. [laughter] he is a futive also said he was the first to get a parted then another. He is a trader. The door has been opened. Why dont people call him a traitor . He is admitted treason and dealings with the russians. He call a beaker . No. He is a trader. It is treason but theyre too low the voice is it though wilder as. Lou i will not complain about the company. Lou but what about the nsa data . We have a board that says it is unconstitutional and want to change. Who are we listening to . Who were these people and what is happening to tis country right now . Th the age of the military information complex is fighting with the surveillance it was one of the big stories of 2013 so it was a positive step in the right direction. Lou what about big corporations . Fabook, microsoft, what is the distinction and . It gets harder and harder no doubt. Of the most suspicious and kite . They dont have the force the government has once they collect that informations. Who do you think the essayed contracts with . Follows Service Providers , your thoughts . Moodys is downgrading the Health Care Insurance agency today. Dowd added negative because of obamacare is a beginning to dawn on the leaders of the timber pratique party maybe not the white house and at some point the leagues stopped. I takhealth care reform is working where people are enrolled did with Insurance Companies say the rates will go up because of obamacare it is the fact that insurance rates are going up so lets take a look after five years to see if it goes down. Lou five years . Are you kidding me . I think frankly that is the wrong way to look at this. Now of a waiver that was dictated. All with the executive order. Now giving the of frustration in time to bail out with the treasury part Bluetooth SuzeInsurance Company . It is time for them to enroll seventh time to destroy the american and Health Care System . That is a doomsday attitude. Lou here are some domesday fax. Was just about 2 of the enrollees now have insurance they dont possess for four but those that are a role that had insurance of some kind. The target was 40 and if it continues as a trend we will watch obamacare implode said they will face great pain. Lou i have to the vitter. Thank you. Dont forgetx÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷ neil all right, tom brady flipping the double bird. And this Seattle Seahawks player flipping out. Tonight we are actually going to tell you. And why this is a very big concern to you. Huffing and puffing, all of the markets once again gyrating. Tonight, youre going o find out more