Transcripts For GBN PMQs 20240705

The post office, in charge of the post office, in charge of the post office, in charge of the post office. The post office. Um, this is the same liberal democrat leader who, in the past has called for the resignation. Has called for the resignation. Of over 30 prominent people in this country who have made mistakes in their job. So does the Prime Minister agree with me that the leader of the lib dems should his own the lib dems should take his own advice and start by clearing his desk, his diary and clear off. 7 hey. Mr off. 7 hey. Mr speaker. Hey. Mr speaker. Mr. Hey. Mr speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is one of the greatest miscarriages of justice in our nations history. People who worked hard to serve their communities had their lives and their reputations through reputations destroyed through absolutely no of their absolutely no fault of their own. The victims must get justice and compensation. So. Justice and compensation. So. Wyn williams inquiry is undertaking crucial work to undertaking crucial work to under to expose what went wrong. And weve paid almost £150 million compensation to over million in compensation to over 2500 victims. But today i can announce that we will introduce new primary legislation to make sure that those convicted as a result of the horizon scandal are swiftly exonerated and compensated. We will also compensated. We will also introduce a new upfront payment of £75,000 for the vital glow group of postmasters and can i thank my hon. Friend the member for thirsk and malton, for all his hard work on this issue. He will set out more details to the house shortly. We will make sure that the truth comes to light. We right of. The past we right the wrongs of. The past and the victims get the justice they deserve. They deserve. Leader of the opposition keir starmer. Starmer. Uh, thank you, mr speaker. I heard what the Prime Minister just said about the post Office Scandal. Scandal. It is a huge injustice. It is a huge injustice. It is a huge injustice. People lost their lives, their liberty and their livelihood , and theyve been livelihood, and theyve been waiting far too long for the truth, for justice waiting far too long for the truth, forjustice and waiting far too long for the truth, for justice and for compensation. So i am glad that the Prime Minister is putting forward a proposal. We will look at the details, and i think its the job of all of us to make sure that it delivers the justice that it delivers the justice thatis that it delivers the justice that is so needed. Mr speaker , that is so needed. Mr speaker, back in 2022, when. Boris back in 2022, when. Boris johnson claimed he would send Asylum Seekers to rwanda , one Asylum Seekers to rwanda, one ambitious tory mp had reservations he agreed with labour that it wouldnt work. It was a waste of money. It was the latest in a long line of gimmicks. Latest in a long line of gimmicks. Does the Prime Minister know what happened to that mp . Well, minister know what happened to that mp. 7 well, mr. Mr speaker, that mp. 7 well, mr. Mr speaker, mr speaker, that mp . Well, mr. Mr speaker, mr speaker, mr speaker what that gentleman, the honourable gentleman, the honourable gentleman refers to is a document that he hasnt seen. I havent seen and has been reported second hand in a bunch of media newspapers. But what i can tell him, what i can tell him is i am absolutely clear that you do need to stop the boats. And thats what this government and that mp is going to deliver. I notice government and that mp is going to deliver. I notice he didnt deny it. Mr speaker , im not deny it. Mr speaker, im not surprised. £400 million of taxpayer money down the drain. No one sent to rwanda for small boats still coming. It is hardly a surprise. He wanted to scrap the scheme when he was trying to sneak in as tory leader , but sneak in as tory leader, but hes been caught red handed opposing the very thing that is now made. His flagship policy. Yes. Which member should we listen to . The one before us today or the one who used to believe in something . Yes mr speaker speaken speaker. Mr mr speaker, mr speaker, ive always been crystal clear. You do need to have an effective deterrence to finally solve this problem. In fact, the National Crime agency agree that you need, their agree that you need, in their words, removal and words, an effective removal and deterrence agreement. And thats why, after becoming Prime Minister, negotiated new minister, i negotiated a new deal thanks to deal with albania. Thanks to which have seen a 93 drop in which we have seen a 93 drop in illegal arrivals from albania. Thats how australia stopped the boats. Thats why italy, germany and austria are all looking at similar schemes. Hes the only one whos opposed to a proper deterrent, not because it doesnt work, but because he doesnt work, but because he doesnt actually believe in controlling migration. Mr controlling migration. Mr speaken controlling migration. Mr speaker, every single time he picks the people smugglers over the british people. Mr speaker, the british people. Mr speaker, we should smash the gangs , we should smash the gangs, process the claims and end hotel use. Thats our plan. And unlike the Prime Minister, i believe in it. It. But mr natural, im good here. The questions i dont want interruptions, please. Its very important. Its a very important topic and i take it seriously. I hope members also wish to start taking it seriously. Prime minister, mr speaker , last year minister, mr speaker, last year he started the year saying he was mr steady. Then at his conference he was mr change. Now hes flipped back to mr more of the same. It doesnt matter how many relaunches flip flops he does hell always be mr nobody and heres the tragedy of his leadership. He spends the whole time trying to convince people not to believe their own eyes, pretending that debt is falling , pretending that debt is falling, that the economy is going gangbusters. The nhs is in great gangbusters. The nhs is in great shape. Gangbusters. The nhs is in great shape. And when he finally finds shape. And when he finally finds something, he was right about the rwanda gimmick. He cant even take credit for it. When is he going to stop pretending that up is down . That black is white . Admit that whether its the economy, immigration, the nhs, he has failed. He mr speaker, well, lets just go through his checklist. He talks about the backlog of 112,000 decisions made last year, a higher number than in any year in the past two decades. Mr speaker , he talked decades. Mr speaker, he talked about hotels. Well, the first 50 about hotels. Well, the first 50 are being closed and there are more to come. Mr speaker, he talks about the numbers. Well, talks about the numbers. Well, they were down by over a third last year. Mr speaker , the first last year. Mr speaker, the first time thats happened. And then he talked. Mr speaker, talked he talked. Mr speaker, he talked about smashing the gangs. Well if he does care about smashing the gangs , why doesnt he own up the gangs, why doesnt he own up to the fact that when it came to the nationality and borders act, he blocked , delayed and voted he blocked, delayed and voted against the powers in that act which have allowed us to now arrest hundreds and hundreds of people connected with that illegal trade who have been sentenced to hundreds of years in prison. He opposed that because he chooses the criminal gangs over the british people. Every time. Every time. I dont think we are keir starmer , mr speaker. Starmer, mr speaker. We can all see whats happened here, just like he knows that debt isnt falling and taxes are going up. He knows the rwanda gimmick wont work , the rwanda gimmick wont work, but he cant be honest about it because hes too scared of his own mps. Doesnt he wish hed own mps. Doesnt he wish hed stuck to his guns rather than to allow himself to be taken hostage by his own. Party mr hostage by his own. Party mr speaken hostage by his own. Party mr speaker, mr speaker , were speaker, mr speaker, were debating this because we have taken a stand and were delivering the toughest migration plan ever to end the legal challenges. And actually get flights off the ground and lets be clear about this. He doesnt have a single, single practical idea about how to stop the boats , but thats because he the boats, but thats because he doesnt actually care about controlling migration. This is a controlling migration. This is a person who described all Immigration Law as racist. Mr speaken Immigration Law as racist. Mr speaker, he thinks limits on economic migration are, in his words, economic vandalism. It words, economic vandalism. It didnt even feature once in his five missions. And he didnt mention it once in his conference speech. The truth is , conference speech. The truth is, hes pro free movement. Hes anti Border Control and he can never be trusted to stop the boats. I never be trusted to stop the boats. I think we never be trusted to stop the boats. I think we should never be trusted to stop the boats. I think we should smash the gangs and i spent five years of my life , five years of my of my life, five years of my life doing exactly. This is the party thats lost control of the border. And party thats lost control of the border. And whilst hes tending to the tory party, the country is left without government. A is left without government. A collapse in dentistry , leaving collapse in dentistry, leaving people literally pulling out their own teeth, flood defences completely exposed , hundreds of completely exposed, hundreds of thousands of children still out of school. His government appears blissfully uninformed in what is going on outside the walls of westminster to see realise how ludicrous it looks when he spends his time boasting. Whilst britain is breaking. Mr mr speaker, im breaking. Mr mr speaker, im glad. Im glad he brought up our scores because theres nothing more important than ensuring our children get a world class education, and thats why im pleased that in spite of labour opposing reform that we opposing every reform that we made, our children are now the best readers in the western world, mr speaker. But hes right that attendance is important, thats why were important, and thats why were investing of pounds investing millions of pounds more to provide support for absent pupils. We launch a national campaign, and just this week doubled the number week weve doubled the number of attendance support over attendance hubs to support over 1000 of the most vulnerable schools. But i am surprised to hear that topic hear him raise that topic because from longer lockdowns or voting against our minimum service laws , his priority has service laws, his priority has always been keeping our children out of school. Mr speaker, its always the same with him. Always the same with him. Theres no plan. Its just peddung theres no plan. Its just peddling one thing to his Union Friends and another thing the friends and another thing to the british people. Keir starmer new british people. Keir starmer new yean british people. Keir starmer new year, new nonsense. Every year, year, new nonsense. Every year, every week he stands here and tells the country they should be thanking him, not questioning him. Point out that the view on the ground is very different to that from his private jet, and he says, youre talking the country down. He just doesnt get it. He doesnt get what a get it. He doesnt get what a cost of living crisis feels like. He doesnt know any schools where kids no longer turn up and he doesnt understand what its like to wait for a hospital appointment. Doesnt the country deserve so much better than a Prime Minister who simply doesnt get britain . He mr mr doesnt get britain . He mr mr speaken doesnt get britain . He mr mr speaker, well, from the last week we had, id say yet another half hour speech from the honourable gentleman and what a surprise he had. Again, it didnt contain a single new idea. Weve had four years of him as labour leader, and its still all slogan, no plan. Mr speaken still all slogan, no plan. Mr speaker. Now just this weekend, mr speaker , just this weekend , mr speaker, just this weekend, were delivering on our plan to cut peoples taxes. Mr speaker , cut peoples taxes. Mr speaker, he doesnt have a plan. Weve got a plan to stop the boats. He doesnt have a plan, and weve got a plan to get people off welfare and into work. He doesnt have idea. Its doesnt have a single idea. Its crystal clear, mr speaker. Doesnt have a single idea. Its crystal clear, mr speaker. Stick crystal clear, mr speaker. Stick with to deliver the long tum with us to deliver the long tum change that the country needs. Dont go back square one dont go back to square one with yeah. Come on, let him with him. Yeah. Come on, let him ask the question before you shout for more. Chris clarkson. Yeah, yeah. Chris clarkson. Yeah, yeah. Chris clarkson. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, mr speaker. Chris clarkson. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, mr speaker. We thank you, mr speaker. We just know its going to be fantastic. And happy new year to you. Anyway. Fantastic. And happy new year to youum,rway. Fantastic. And happy new year to youum, its. Fantastic. And happy new year to youum, its almost spring a um, its almost spring when a young turns to tax young mans fancy turns to tax in scotland. Young mans fancy turns to tax in sthe and. Young mans fancy turns to tax in sthe nationalists have decided the nationalists have decided to increase. Um taxes on hard working people. And in wales, working people. And in wales, businesses are being clobbered by a 5 increase on rates. Does by a 5 increase on rates. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me . Theres only one party in this chamber that can be trusted to cut taxes for hardworking. To cut taxes for hardworking. Across the country , and thats across the country, and thats the conservative socialist. The conservative socialist. Well, mr speaker, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are now is absolutely right. We are now just this weekend mr speaker, for an average person in work cutting their taxes by £450. Mr speaken cutting their taxes by £450. Mr speaker, in wales, where labour in charge, theyre raising them with businesses theyre now seeing double the rate of business rates. This year, mr speaken business rates. This year, mr speaker. And its the same in scotland under the snp. The new high tax capital of the united kingdom, because of the snps tax hiking decisions. So mr speaken tax hiking decisions. So mr speaker, while weve got a plan and cutting your taxes, its labour and the snp that are going to raise them. Yes, the snp , Stephen Flynn , yes, mr snp, Stephen Flynn, yes, mr mr speaker , horizons system mr speaker, horizons system introduced by tony blair, the former labour party leader, and of course now a knights garter , of course now a knights garter, a horizon system defended by the current leader of the liberal democrats, himself a knight bachelor, a horizon system scandal overseen by a former conservative Prime Minister who now hides in the house of lords as a baron. The reality is that subpostmasters never stood a chance against the westminster establishment, did they . Yeah, establishment, did they . Yeah, yeah. Mr speaker, as ive said, this is actually one of the greatest miscarriage of justice in our countrys history and all our thoughts are with those who worked so hard for their communities and have seen their lives reputations destroyed. Lives and reputations destroyed. And since this scandal, as the honourable gentleman pointed out , has actually unfolded over decades and with multiple people clearly at fault. But since 2019 and the high court case, this government established a statutory inquiry led by sir wyn williams to uncover what went wrong, established an independent Advisory Board and has established three different compensation schemes, paying out £150 million to over 2500 people, with now almost two thirds having received final compensation. But we must go further and faster , mr speaker, further and faster, mr speaker, which is why we have made new announcements today. Announcements today. Also. Also. Also. Mr mr speaker, i dont think the Prime Minister quite gets it. This isnt just a plague on all their houses. This is a plague on this house itself, because injustice goes far beyond just the subpostmasters. Beyond just the subpostmasters. Just ask the waspi women or the victims of the Equitable Life scandal , or victims of the Equitable Life scandal, or the victims of the infected blood scandal. Are the victims families from grenfell or hillsborough . The reality is that when the public come knocking on the doors of this here chamber, seeking justice, the government only ever answers when they have no options left. When they have no options left. Though the leader of the opposition said last week that the public are right to be angry at westminster and they are angry at westminster, they are angry at westminster, they are angry at westminster because they know that this place never really changes, does it . Prime minister yeah. No mr speaker, this is you know, and actually i am sad that the honourable gentleman is trying to politicise something that has happened over multiple decades with multiple people of fault. But the key thing is, after the 2019 high court case, the government did act to establish an independent inquiry, independent compensation schemes and, as i said, has paid out compensation to 2500 people. But rather than trying to politicise it, what we should be doing is focusing on the people affected and making sure that they get the and the answers. Justice and compensation that they deserve. And that is what we are delivering. And im sure, mr speaker , i and im sure, mr speaker, i made a promise to a grandad in my constituency after he told me he hadnt dared speak up when his grandson came home saying today we were learning if we were in the wrong body. Draft schools guidance to support gender questioning children has now been published just before christmas , and its just before christmas, and its out to public consultation. But out to public consultation. But when weve all seen many individual people very publicly cancelled , lost their jobs, cancelled, lost their jobs, their reputation and their relationships for simply supporting biological reality or championing fairness , womens championing fairness, womens safety, Child Protection , then safety, Child Protection, then can i ask my right hon. Friend how will honest and open engagement be managed through this very important and sensitive consultation process . Sensitive consultation process . Can i thank my honourable friend for her important question and assure her that shes right about the safety and well being of children being paramount in our thoughts . And thatis paramount in our thoughts . And that is at the heart of the guidance that we have published for consultation. But also, mr for consultation. But also, mr speaken for consultation. But also, mr speaker, parents fundamentally must be involved in decisions about their childrens lives, and their involvement is a key part of this guidance. She is part of this guidance. She is shes right to say theres a consultation process that is an opportunity for everyone to engage with this guidance. And shes also right to say, and i agree with her, that those championing safety or indeed talking about the importance of biological sex, should absolutely have the freedom to express those views. And she will see those views expressed in guidance to eden forest. In the guidance to eden forest. Thank , mr speaker. Thank you, mr speaker. Want thank the prime i want to thank the Prime Minister for the £33 billion financial package, which is now available to any restored Northern Ireland executive. However, we still need a discussion around the long terme Financial Framework before the next spending review. Our present Northern Ireland is segas Public Services in huge crisis, especially health, and there are urgent Public Sector pay there are urgent Public Sector pay pressures, which must be addressed. Last month, the secretary of state said that the negotiations with the dup over the Windsor Framework have concluded, though does the Prime Minister recognise the real dangers of continued drift in Northern Ireland and the urgent need for Northern Ireland to have a government that can . Thank my the honourable i thank my the honourable gentleman for his question and our has always been on our focus has always been on delivering for the people of northern rightly Northern Ireland, who rightly expect locally expect and deserve their locally elected Decision Makers to address the issues that matter to them. We have held talks with the dup and believe that significant progress has been made, and that there is now a very good basis for the executive to be restored. I executive to be restored. I thank him for his comments about the £3 billion financial package and with that, there is a real chance to restore the executive resolve, for Public Sector resolve, pay for Public Sector workers rapidly and get Northern Ireland and its Public Services moving again. James grundy , thank you, mr james grundy, thank you, mr speaker. Speaken the adley way bypass in leigh was first proposed over 60 years ago, but to this day remains unfinished. I recently met with representatives of wigan, warrington and Saint Helens Council as well as the mayor of Greater Manchester and i am pleased to say, an agreement in principle reached to principle has been reached to bnng principle has been reached to bring proposals to bring forward proposals to complete bypass. Complete the bypass. Would Prime Minister also would the Prime Minister also like his support behind like to throw his support behind this vital project for my constituents in leigh . Can i commend my honourable friend for all his work bringing local authorities and the mayor together to drive this important project forward . I know that my hon. Friend the rail minister is meeting with my honourable friend to discuss this proposal and ensure that we can deliver things like this, and as part of network north, there will be significant new funding announced for local highway improvements. And i would improvements. And i would encourage my honourable friend to work with stakeholders to progress this important scheme to work with stakeholders to progensureis important scheme to work with stakeholders to progensure that portant scheme to work with stakeholders to progensure that they nt scheme to work with stakeholders to progensure that they can heme to work with stakeholders to progensure that they can bid ne to work with stakeholders to progensure that they can bid for and ensure that they can bid for that funding when it becomes available. Alex norris. Alex norris. Thank speaker. Thank you, mr speaker. Thank you, mr speaker. Mr speaker, can i ask the prime very simply for Prime Minister very simply for the Public Record whether he personally akil tripathy personally met mr akil tripathy in last year, prior to mr in april last year, prior to mr tripathy giving him £38,000 for the hire of a private jet. Oh, mr oh, mr mr speaker , all my mr speaker, all my declarations are made in the usual way, according to the usual way, according to the usual processes kinsey schofield, whips question, whips question. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Uh, the Prime Minister knows that i set up and chair the caucus of 35 conservative members of parliament who have britains longest river flowing through their constituencies , through their constituencies, the river severn. Weve submitted a Business Case to the chancellor. Submitted a Business Case to the chancellor. For submitted a Business Case to the chancellor. For £500 submitted a Business Case to the chancellor. For £500 million to finally tame the river severn. And i know that his officials are currently looking at those proposals to tame the river severn will lead to a gva uplift in the West Midlands of over £150 billion. The Prime Minister has seen this week the horrendous damage and misery caused in shropshire and all the way along the river severn of this river, flooding yet again. This river, flooding yet again. We really do need to see now in this spring budget. Further assistance for communities like mine to finally deal with these annual floods. Can i start by annual floods. Can i start by saying that my thoughts are with all those affected by the devastating impact of storm henk and the flooding . Seen over the past week weve seen over the past week or two, including those in my honourable friends constituency action being action is already being undertaken under our six year, £5. 2 billion investment. That was the start of Prime Ministers questions, the first pmqs of 2024. We heard a lot of electioneering in some of his answers. Gloria but i think the main news from so many viewers will be the new bill to quash the convictions of subpostmasters convicted into the post Office Scandal. Huge news there. Well be hearing more in the urgent question shortly after pmqs. Yes, exonerated and compensated. Those were the compensated. Those were the words that rishi sunak used in Prime Ministers questions. We know how important this issue is. We know how much it has touched the nation. We know the problems going on too problems have been going on too long. So when that urgent question starts, its been called by a conservative backbencher , former cabinet backbencher, former cabinet minister david davis. The minister will have to reply to the series of questions that david davis will put and we will be live to that. But we promised you that in this show we would be putting your questions to our fabulous panel of politicians. The cabinet minister esther mcvey, and the Labour Party Chair , anneliese. Chair, anneliese. Thats right. And jones has a question already. Esther and anneliese. When are your whens your government going to knight alan bates . Alan bates . Mr bates as soon as possible , mr bates as soon as possible, i hope, but obviously its got to go through the ranks process. But i have to say new years, when the new years honours list came through, i said, want to came through, i said, i want to see ordinary, extraordinary see more ordinary, extraordinary people. And im quite convinced people. And im quite convinced this man is an extraordinary person and the public will be behind him. Anybody can nominate behind him. Anybody can nominate him. And quite sure we will him. And im quite sure we will see. Alan as soon as see. Sir alan as soon as possible. Possible. Anneliese dodds as chair the labour party, thats not something youd oppose. Not. Certainly not. Certainly not. I think theres a very strong argument for i would say argument for it, but i would say as well as the symbolism around this and the empathy that weve heard , you know, what these heard, you know, what these former postmasters really need to see is compensation in and they need those wrongful convictions to be quashed. Now, of course, were going to go back to a discussion about this minute. Theyve this in a minute. But theyve waited long for waited for far too long for that. Lets that. So absolutely, lets honour campaigned honour those whove campaigned so particularly so hard, particularly alan bates and but lets make sure and others. But lets make sure they whats their due, they get whats their due, because for many of them, they just cannot wait. Know, just cannot wait. You know, their have ruined their careers have been ruined and some of them now, sadly, are really elderly. Really quite elderly. They need to that that and to get that that support and that restitution now. To get that that support and tha andtitution now. To get that that support and tha and we ion now. To get that that support and tha and we ion noget some more and we might get some more answers when back answers on that when we go back to the house of commons for the urgent which was urgent question, which was whats been announced by whats been announced today by the Prime Minister, and that speech talking speech and that youre talking about absolute lee, theyve waited too across all parties. Well, werent they from tony blair . Mcfadden it. Well, werent they from tony bledavey mcfadden it. Well, werent they from tony bledavey be cfadden it. Well, werent they from tony bledavey be there. N it. Well, werent they from tony bledavey be there. Waited it. Well, werent they from tony bledavey be there. Waited all it. Ed davey be there. Waited all too long. It does now have to act swiftly. Act swiftly. And £75,000 for the up front on top of the other money announced. So far. Is that enough . Estimate 148 million has already been paid out in compensation. Weve got the inquiry ongoing. There was a court case, £600,000. People agreed to up front if they were convicted. There but this does need to be speedy and we do need to see this happening because people are saying its taking too long, this compensation, and lets be absolutely clear, that big court case started in 2017, finished 2019. In 2019, and since then esther, weve seen those postmark letters former postmasters expected to go back to court. To court. So many of them were totally traumatised when they went to court. Many of them were told by their legal representation they had to plead guilty when they knew that they werent. They knew that they werent. They knew were innocent of knew that they were innocent of what accused what theyd been accused of. Thats system until thats been the system until now. Really need set now. So we really need to set this the this right. And if the government is coming forward with this, as with proposals on this, as apparently were going apparently it seems were going to then look to have today, then well look at really carefully and at those really carefully and well hard to get well push really hard to get them as quickly as them enacted as quickly as possible, people really possible, because people really cant wait. Want to bring in another i want to bring in another one our viewers listeners one of our viewers or listeners whos touch called keith whos been in touch called keith again post scandal again on the post Office Scandal , you talked about , and you both talked about compensation. When he makes this compensation. When he makes this point, isnt fujitsu being point, why isnt fujitsu being made to pay for the compensation instead of the taxpayers who are not responsible or culpable . Anneliese dodds from the labour party . Yeah, i mean, i think that role fujitsu really important. And keith is right to draw attention to it because we havent seen, unfortunately, yet that full transparency. Obviously the inquiry is probing into that and it needs to make sure it gets that information from fujitsu about what they knew. You know, it looks like actually fujitsu were telling the post office, you know , the post office, you know, particular details post office then relying on those. We need to find out who knew what and when and who knew that they werent truth. Its werent telling the truth. Its really critical. Werent telling the truth. Its reaii mean,al. Werent telling the truth. Its reaii mean, is time to stop i mean, is it time to stop giving out contracts to fujitsu . Everyone youve got to well, everyone youve got to look at and this we have to look at it was tony blair who signed it off. And youve got to look at the contract. I know at the contract. I dont know what in the contract. What hes put in the contract. If he exonerated some if he even exonerated them some way liabilities. But why way from liabilities. But why are we are the situation were in post in the government owns the post office and were all shareholders of the post office. But absolutely , pursue this but absolutely, you pursue this case. Whether is wrongdoing case. And whether is wrongdoing andifs case. And whether is wrongdoing and its proved wrong going wrong doing, going to wrong doing, theyre going to have pay up. And youre quite have to pay up. And youre quite right. Youre going to have to go through the fujitsu contracts. It a massive contracts. But it is a Massive International company that has done a lot of contracts with 124,000 people who work for it. But absolutely , this scrutiny but absolutely, this scrutiny and challenge is what and this challenge is what ministers should be doing, which is rishi doing. This is what rishi was doing. This challenge is Anneliese Dodds. Challenge is Anneliese Dodds. Yeah, but just to be clear, esther, obviously government has actually been, uh, creating new contracts with fujitsu since this scandal was actually known about since it was really hitting the headlines. So its not just about the initial contract with fujitsu. Its also about making sure that governments done that Due Diligence. You know, i think diligence. You know, i think there are questions about why a company was being company that was being investigated statutory investigated in a statutory inquiry , you know, whether there inquiry, you know, whether there really was that Due Diligence into as a into it continuing as a government contract is looked at in its own right. And that scrutiny, i totally agree , needs to be better and agree, needs to be better and stronger that challenge the contracts. But its done independently , as you will know independently, as you will know by the commercial sector, it does need servants. Does need servants. It doesnt need to be done. I mean, of course, during the covid period, we saw some really big failures there. So we need to make sure that system is working effectively. Now anneliese ask Anneliese Dodds, i want to ask you episode has got you if this episode has got lessons for a potential Labour Government and how it deals with the private sector. Providing the private sector. Providing pubuc the private sector. Providing Public Services does this labour party believe there is a role for private companies delivering pubuc for private companies delivering Public Services like the post office . I think it really does have lessons. I mean, labour was already looking at this area because of many of those covid failures in particular, but others as well , where weve others as well, where weve seen, you know, in those cases , seen, you know, in those cases, obviously public which obviously public money, which hasnt been used effectively, we have made announcements about having much more transparency. There also clawing back some of that waste from the covid period. We need to make sure in the future that actually taxpayer is getting the benefit from public money. But then we also need to make sure that were not having these kind of miscarriages because were not having these kind of micourse,ies because were not having these kind of micourse, weve because were not having these kind of micourse, weve also because were not having these kind of micourse, weve also seen ause were not having these kind of micourse, weve also seen the of course, weve also seen the windrush well. During windrush scandal as well. During this had the this period. Weve had the contaminated blood scandal. Weve to raise weve had people trying to raise their saying something was their voice saying something was wrong a lack of action. I wrong and a lack of action. I think politicians of all stripes have. There a lesson here, is there a lesson here, do you mcvey of for you think esther mcvey of for all, you say, all politicians all, as you say, all politicians believing um, believing computer, um, computers is over people. I mean these are subpostmasters, pillars of their community who were all the entreaties were ignored all the entreaties from alan bates to sir davey several letters ignored. He says. What does it show about really . The fact that our leaders , politicians, maybe of leaders, politicians, maybe of all stripes, came back into Labour Government dont really trust what people are telling them, bad thing, them, and thats a bad thing, isnt is where i think the and this is where i think the challenge is essential. Youre quite right. They were two, i dont know, to believe dont know, two quick to believe what told by civil what they were told by civil servants, too quick believe servants, too quick to believe what told by the post what they were told by the post office, that challenge is office, and that challenge is essential, which ive always believed in. Will be working believed in. Will we be working with companies . Yes, we believed in. Will we be working with because ompanies . Yes, we believed in. Will we be working with because theyvezs . Yes, we believed in. Will we be working with because theyve got es, we believed in. Will we be working with because theyve got the we will, because theyve got the expertise certain ways. But expertise in certain ways. But that oversight is essential. I mean, labour a woeful mean, labour has a woeful history. Just think of the pfa. Cant pfi contract. Youre not good. If im being honest with private companies. Good. If im being honest with private companies. But good. If im being honest with private companies. But that good. If im being honest with private companies. But that is the that needs to come the scrutiny that needs to come forward. And nobody , as you say, forward. And nobody, as you say, comes out well with the post office because they were too quick other people. Quick to believe other people. And that is what ministers need to just i think, i think ill just i think, i think pfi john major, but pfi began underjohn major, but it continue throughout that it did continue throughout that Labour Government. Just to Labour Government. But just to just to be just put that i think to be honest, what this honest, what about this isnt what now. What we need what we need now. What we need now is a focus on how were going this right, going to set this right, particularly for those individuals and what the lessons are for the future are going to be for the future for a government of any party. Thats we need to focus on. Okay. Were going to move to on a question from one of our listeners mr listeners and our viewers. Mr well which one it is well find out which one it is by next weeks show, but ryan wants and a big wants to know, and this is a big question, guys. Question, guys. You solve the how do you solve the Immigration Crisis . Estimate. Youre in the cabinet. Youve been saying it for years. Youve had 13 years in power. Youve had 13 years in power. Well, as everybody knows, there a simple silver there isnt a simple silver bullet. There are many things you need to do. And the rwanda policy is one of them. And we are trying every way to close everything down. So youll see now the number of boats coming over has gone down by 30. You will see that albanians are being sent back. But we need the rwanda policy. What we dont needis rwanda policy. What we dont need is an opposition who talks about being, you know, strict on illegal immigration, yet has done nothing to or everything to oppose what this government is doing. So thats what we need to do. We need to see this sorted. Im afraid we dont want more safe routes, more open ways of doing have to say this is doing it. We have to say this is illegal. We do not accept it and absolutely be as firm as we can and bring more in through the law. This rwanda policy is one of them. Have you seen the amendments put down overnight . And would you support them . Supporting them. I wont be supporting them. I havent guess havent read them yet. I guess ill to read whats in ill have to read whats in there. But what i saw was, as far as you could absolutely go. So what does this country want . What is acceptable by our courts . So im glad weve got the exclusions from some of the human rights ers. Some of the European Court of human rights. And also what will rwanda accept for go forward. But we for this to go forward. But we need safe third country to need a safe third country to send people to which labour doesnt do. You havent doesnt want to do. You havent got that safe. Third country, which need to send people to which we need to send people to Anneliese Dodds. The partys i guess the labour partys position , and we heard it from position, and we heard it from keir starmer there in Prime Ministers smash ministers questions, smash the gangs , stop the of hotels. Gangs, stop the use of hotels. But when one is in opposition, all you have is words. You cant be tested. Why should anybody be tested. Why should anybody believe the labour party that things would better under things would be any better under the labour party . How are you going convince ryan that going to convince ryan that labour can solve it . Yeah, because can labour because ryan can see that labour set a plan. Because ryan can see that labour set and a plan. Because ryan can see that labour set and a pl afraid what had and im afraid what weve had from the government has been gimmicks. Weve more home gimmicks. Weve had more home secretaries the conservative secretaries in the conservative party gone rwanda. Party who have gone to rwanda. Then people have there to then people have gone there to be. This obviously be processed. This obviously isnt £400 million of isnt working. £400 million of taxpayers money put into this. Why isnt the government doing what labour has called for on this . You talked about smashing the criminal gangs, convict for a criminal. People smugglers have gone down by 30. Labour said. We need to have a cross said. We need to have a cross border elite police unit focussed these criminals , so focussed on these criminals, so we get those convictions up. We actually some actually have some accountability justice accountability and justice against these people. We need to do that. We need to be recruiting more caseworkers again. Plans to again. Labour set out plans to do that. More caseworkers do that. 1000 more caseworkers to get that backlog down because thats whats driving hotel use. And since rishi sunak made that commitment to end, to tell us the number of people in hotels has up 10,000. But, you has gone up by 10,000. But, you know, elephant in the know, the big elephant in the room you will get room that you will not get conservative politicians talking about fact this about is the fact that this is also the other net also about the other net migration numbers. Weve seen migration numbers. Weve seen a 150 increase in health and social care visas over 50 increase in other work visas. Why is that happening . Because this government has not got a workforce strategy. They havent got a strategy for the social care employees either. That is why were seeing these problems. And again, labours got a plan in those areas. Anneliese dodds on the on the elite, on the illegal migration. Are look are you would you look at offshore processing this idea, the of course the rwanda plan is a deportation scheme. But would you at deporting or you look at even deporting or examining, um , migrants coming examining, um, migrants coming here offshore somewhere outside the uk . Well, weve seen the rate of returns again going down substantially. And thats because arent right because there arent the right return in place and return agreements in place and theyre not actually being put into practice effectively. But theres already offshore processing , of course, in the uk processing, of course, in the uk system , you know, for example, system, you know, for example, with the ukraine scheme , the with the ukraine scheme, the afghan scheme as well, to an extent hong kong scheme. So of course, you know, labour is focussed on whats actually going to change here. Going to drive change here. I have to say what we see as the big, problem is that failure big, big problem is that failure to criminal gangs, to smash those criminal gangs, to smash those criminal gangs, to , tell, use and to to enter, tell, use and to actually get the home office in actually get the home office in a position where its processing people, which im afraid its not at moment. Not doing at the moment. Okay okay, going bring in okay, im going to bring in another member audience another member of our audience who called and phil, how how who is called and phil, how how will the mps of all parties regain the trust of their constituents . And phil , constituents . And phil, allow me to just play and phil, allow me to just play with your question a little bit. There are so many dont knows out there. Knows out there. This is an Election Year. So many people still dont know how theyre going to vote for. I put it to you that both your leaders , neither of them, your leaders, neither of them, are really inspiring people. Are they . Esther mcvey i think this they . Esther mcvey i think this issue of trust and Winning People back over is essential , people back over is essential, is key. And then you do need to be delivering on what you are saying and what youre doing. Saying and what youre doing. For me, and for a lot of my constituents, actually , it was constituents, actually, it was covid and lockdown and the fall out of that that is really turned the world because they look at what happened from 2010 with the conservative and the coalition party. It said it was going to get the books in order. And yes, it did. And it said it was going to deliver on like, you know, a School League tables. Weve gone up in that, you know , we were i was in you know, we were i was in employment and we were getting a thousand more people into jobs each day. They felt each and every day. They felt they way they delivered right. The way along. These two years of along. But these two years of lockdown has thrown not just the uk, but everybody across the world into chaos. And if we world into chaos. And if we hadnt world into chaos. And if we hadnt have got the books and the finances in order, we wouldnt been able to be as wouldnt have been able to be as generous supporting generous as we were supporting people for with £100 billion worth of support, saving 11. 7 million businesses. So weve done all that. And thats why people are saying because we did get the economy were now get the economy right, were now being to grow our economy being able to grow our economy faster than places like, you know, germany , france and italy. Know, germany, france and italy. Were now better at manufacturing than france. So weve got to get that back on track. And remember labour, track. And remember labour, youd have had us down in lockdown longer and you always leave us as we know you always leave us as we know you always leave us as we know you always leave us with interesting more debt than ever before , which debt than ever before, which will do the same thing before i come to you, anneliese, im going to ask you this, chris, if i may, because what esther mcvey is effective doing. Is very effective doing. Um, and its a tactic that used by all politicians is to say, is to turn a question and attack the opponent. Do you think that helps with the trust . Well, there is a problem with trust. I mean, the was a 23 of voters who might vote conservative arent arent, arent voting in the polls. And thats what number 10 think. Theyve win back labour thats what number 10 think. Timiles win back labour thats what number 10 think. Timiles ahead. Vin back labour thats what number 10 think. Timiles ahead. Theyack labour thats what number 10 think. Timiles ahead. The challenger thats what number 10 think. Timiles ahead. The challenge i is miles ahead. The challenge i think for any party is just doing delivering what they say. Think for any party is just dmean,3livering what they say. Think for any party is just dmean, youre g what they say. Think for any party is just dmean, youre the 1at they say. Think for any party is just dmean, youre the common;ay. Think for any party is just dmean, youre the common sense i mean, youre the common sense minister do you minister were told, is do you accept terms common sense accept that terms common sense minister. Well i do obviously, if are i do want to see more if you are i do want to see more of i do and people do say we want to see more of that. Its actually a position thats been around for 100 years. Peter mandelson had it. Ken its actually ken clarke had it. Its actually in Cabinet Office at the in the Cabinet Office at the engine there whats engine there looking at whats going through. Lots of going through. So i get lots of people actually, we people say to me, actually, we need sense and need more common sense and government. Happy to wear government. So im happy to wear that title. On common sense, but on common sense, actually, do immigration. Actually, lets do immigration. No, lets do trust. Lets no, sorry. Lets do trust. Lets do trust with the labour party. Lets face it, i dont think voters are out there. Youll remember 1997. We were probably both campaigning for labourin probably both campaigning for labour in that election. Everyone was like, well, im voting for blair, im voting for blair. It just doesnt feel like that at this time, does it . Have to say, for many i have to say, for many people, genuinely does. People, it genuinely does. I mean, was out and about in my mean, i was out and about in my patch, do. I was patch, as i always do. I was trying to people on the trying to speak to people on the doorsteps. People pulling doorsteps. I had people pulling up their cars, coming of up in their cars, coming out of their and to me, my their car and saying to me, my goodness, need a change. Goodness, we need a change. Were voting for and were voting for keir and for laboun were voting for keir and for labour. Think is that labour. I think there is that determination for change, but i do somethings changed do think somethings changed actually, over the last 14 years. People have years. I think people have started to believe that change cant happen for them in their family because because we havent often been in a situation in our country where peoples Living Standards have actually been going down, you know, where their incomes have been going down in real terms , been going down in real terms, where theyve seen Public Services getting worse and worse and worse. And this isnt just down to what happened in the covid example, covid period. For example, waiting lists. They were rapidly increasing under the conservatives before then. People feel that they know the money thats in their pocket and thats in their bank accounts, and that its covering less for them their families and what them and their families and what they to see. I think, is they want to see. I think, is a clear and credible plan, not soundbites, not the kind of sticking plasters that we see all the time. And thats what labours set out with our missions. That is a different approach to politics. Its saying were not going to change everything were everything overnight. Were going terme were going to be long. Terme were going to be long. Terme were going be really open that going to be really open that these challenging missions. These are challenging missions. Theyre hard to theyre going to be hard to achieve. But if we Work Together as country , we can do as a country, we can do incredible things. Thats incredible things. And thats labours ambition. Would you labours ambition. And would you set those targets . Set those clear targets . You get into government . I if you get into government . I mean course rishi sunaks mean of course rishi sunaks come his own come unstuck with his own targets hes halved targets last year. Hes halved inflation. Other inflation. But the other other four havent happened. Four havent really happened. Will you try and mark your own homework that way . Obviously. Homework in that way . Obviously. And to and im not over promised to voters become former governed. Absolutely. Weve been absolutely. And weve been clear that a lot of weve clear that a lot of what weve set out is going to be very difficult achieve. Mean, difficult to achieve. I mean, halving women difficult to achieve. I mean, halvgirls women difficult to achieve. I mean, halvgirls having women difficult to achieve. I mean, halvgirls having violent women difficult to achieve. I mean, halvgirls having violent crime. N and girls having violent crime. Weve got to do that far too many of our streets and communities are incredibly unsafe for people. We set out the policies to get us there, but this is going to take everyone working together. Weve got to Work Together to achieve this. You know, not just the this. You know, not just the police, which are being cut back so substantially. And obviously those commitments to increase Police Numbers critical Police Numbers are critical there. But also changing the judicial system to change also in our schools in terms of education, around £28 billion. Is that £28 billion to borrow . Its a very effective conservative attack. Im surprised. Estimate of a hasnt raised it yet, but i cant make no head nor tail about whether thatis no head nor tail about whether that is a firm commitment, whether its like being pushed back, whether its not within the rules. The fiscal rules. Dont understand it. I just dont understand it. I just dont understand it. Can you can you enlighten me . I think the British Public are very, think i think the British Public are very, completely think i think the British Public are very, completely understand this. They completely understand this. Know labour has they know that labour has committed to that £28 billion in borrowing investment , borrowing investment, investment, because at the moment country is losing in moment our country is losing in that race for those jobs of the future, despite the fact weve got amazing people, university and weve got the capacity to win the big thing about pmqs, you can come back, you can come back. Lets, lets. I cant finish, but the British Public also understand that labour is committed to fiscal rules. We did that many months ago , and were absolutely months ago, and were absolutely clear whether were talking about this commitment, whether were talking about other areas of spending, its all always going to be within those fiscal rules. And the rules. And unlike the conservatives were not going to flip flop on these flip flop about on these economic issues. Going to economic issues. Were going to be. Be absolutely. Concretely, can i just say the laugh was the biggest laugh in pmqs was when sir keir said, one who used to believe in something that was everybody laughing because keir starmer believe in starmer doesnt believe in anything. Union anything. He had Student Union fee, fees, sorry he was fee, student fees, sorry he was going to get rid of. He was going to get rid of. He was going to get rid of. He was going to nationalise. He was friends with corbyn. Hes got a green policy. Mr sir flip flop. It changes every im sorry it changes every week. Im sorry your he was sorry. Your leader said he was sorry. Ladies, ladies , the speakers ladies, ladies, the speakers on his feet. Were going to hear the urgent question. Matters relating to standing matters relating to the horizon scandal. Standing matters relating to the minister horizon scandal. Standing matters relating to the minister. Horizon scandal. Minister. Minister. Thank you, mr speaker. Um, as the Prime Minister indicated, a few minutes ago, im informing the house about further steps which the government is taking to address the horizon scandal. To address the horizon scandal. The government is taking measures to speed the flow of compensation. Have already compensation. We have already set a target issuing initial set a target of issuing initial offers for 90 of Group Litigation. Order cases within 40 days of receiving a completed application , and i announced in application, and i announced in november that we would be introducing a £600,000 upfront offer for claims with overturned convictions , which people could convictions, which people could choose to take rather than going to detail through the detailed assessment process. This has assessment process. This has already made a real difference. Before my announcement, only five of those people had reached full and final settlements. I full and final settlements. I can now report that with the help of the minimum payments, we have finalised 30 cases. His this has obviously speeded up matters along for those who have taken this upfront offer, its also helped those who have chosen individual assessment because resources can be concentrated on those cases. I concentrated on those cases. I can announce today that we are taking similar measures in respect of the Group Litigation order scheme. We will now make order scheme. We will now make people in that scheme an upfront offer of £75,000, which will save them having to go through a full assessment. But as with overturned convictions , if they overturned convictions, if they believe they are entitled to more, they are welcome to continue with the full assessment not only will this allow the department to focus its resources on the larger cases, it will allow claimants lawyers to do the same at the pace at which we can get claims into the scheme is the key constraint and how quickly we can settle them. The upfront can settle them. The upfront offer a smaller for the scheme than for the overturned convictions, because the claims tend to be smaller. We estimate that perhaps a third of claimants may want to consider this route. I am sure the house this route. I am sure the house will welcome this measure. When will welcome this measure. When i made my statement on monday, i heard all parts of the house share my desire to ensure justice for postmasters who had been convicted of offences as part of the scandal. The whole house is united on this, and i believe that in the light of last weeks excellent itv series , i think the whole nation is unhed , i think the whole nation is united on it to. Weve all been moved by the stories of postmasters who have been unjustly convicted and the terrible effects over a period of two decades of their finances , their health and their relationships. Shapps. Indeed, relationships. Shapps. Indeed, we have seen whole lives ruined by this brutal and arbitrary exercise of power. By this brutal and arbitrary exercise of power. Hundreds of convictions remain extant. Some convictions remain extant. Some of those convictions will have relied on the evidence of the discredit horizon system. Others discredit horizon system. Others will have been the result of appalling favour failures of the post offices investigation and prosecution functions. The prosecution functions. The evidence, which is already emerging from sir wyn williams inquiry , has shown not only inquiry, has shown not only incompetence but malevolence in many of their actions. Yes this was evidence which was not available to the courts when they made their decisions on individual cases. So far 95 of over 900 convictions have been overturned , and we know that overturned, and we know that post masters have been reluctant to apply to have their convictions overturned. Many of convictions overturned. Many of them have decided that they have been through enough, and they cannot face further engagement with authority. Many fear having with authority. Many fear having their hopes raised only to be dashed. Yet again. The horizon dashed. Yet again. The horizon compensation Advisory Board has recommended that we should overturn all the convictions of the postmasters who were prosecuted in the horizon scandal. I think their motivation for doing so is absolutely right, and we will work with them to speed up the process. Can i can i put on record my thanks to lord arbuthnot, who is in the gallery today and also the right honourable member for north durham, for their work on this campaign generally and on that Advisory Board , following their Advisory Board, following their recommendation , uh, following recommendation, uh, following their recommendation would involve quite a unprecedented action by parliament to overturn specific verdicts of the courts. The government is, of course, completely recognises the importance of an independent court system and judiciary. Importance of an independent court system and judiciary. So court system and judiciary. So this recommendation raises important issues of constitutional principle. This is therefore not a decision we can take lightly. It is also can take lightly. It is also creates the risks of a different sort of injustice , as i am sure sort of injustice, as i am sure a great many people were wrongly convicted in this scandal, but i cannot tell the house that all those prosecuted were indeed innocent , or those prosecuted were indeed innocent, or even that it was 90 or 80 or 70 without retrying every case. We cannot know. So the risk is that instead of an unjust convictions , we shall end unjust convictions, we shall end up with unjust acquittals , and up with unjust acquittals, and we just do not know how many. We just do not know how many. The only way we could tell , we the only way we could tell, we could tell would be put. All cases through the courts, further dragging out the distress for many innocent people. Order i just say this is a very can i just say this is a very important issue. Important issue. Im going to allow the minister to continue , but i am minister to continue, but i am going say the opposition , going to say to the opposition, your increases with your time also increases with the others. And to sir david as well. It is important to too important an issue to curtail it. But i would say to officials, they really ought to be aware that when they do provide speeches, it is for three minutes. But i do want you to fulfil this because the issue is far, far important. Is far, far too important. Minister, can i thank you for that , mr minister, can i thank you for that, mr speaker, i that, mr speaker, and i apologise the length of this apologise for the length of this statement, this urgent response to urgent but it to the urgent question. But it is, say, a vital is, as you say, a vital importance. So we have been importance. So we have been faced with a dilemma. Either accept the present problem of many people carrying the unjustified slur of conviction , unjustified slur of conviction, or accept that an unknown number of people who have genuinely stolen from their post office will be exonerated , or perhaps will be exonerated, or perhaps even compensated. And i can even compensated. And i can therefore announce that we intend to bring forward legislation as soon as we can to overturn the convictions of all those convicted in england or wales on the basis of post Office Evidence given during the honzon Office Evidence given during the horizon scandal, Office Evidence given during the horizon scandal , the government horizon scandal, the government will, in the coming days, consider whether to include the small number of cases that have already been considered by the appeal court and the convictions upheld. We recognise this is an exceptional step, but these are exceptional step, but these are exceptional circumstances and as the house knows , people with the house knows, people with convictions which have been overturned are offered a choice between having their compensation individually assessed or settling on an upfront offer of £600,000. So as far as possible, we want to avoid guilty people walking away with hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money. But we cannot make the provision of compensation subject to a detailed examine of guilt. We could we just, because we have concluded that to do so would be unfair to individuals ulez to ask the court to do that again and we cannot turn this into an administrative exercise because. Administrative exercise because. So all we ask is that as part of their claims of compensation , their claims of compensation, when postmasters sign a statement to the effect that they will, they did not commit they will, they did not commit the crimes of which they were accused. Anyone subsequently accused. Anyone subsequently found to have signed such a statement , untruthfully will be statement, untruthfully will be putting themselves at risk of prosecution or fraud. I do not pretend to the house that this is a foolproof device , but it is is a foolproof device, but it is a proportionate one which respects the ordeal with which these people have already suffered. It means that an suffered. It means that an honest postmaster will have his or her conviction overturned and just by signing one document, can secure compensation. No one can secure compensation. No one should take our decision as a criticism of the judiciary. Their original decisions were taken in good faith in the understanding that prosecutions were properly conducted, and that assertions assertions about the robustness of the horizon system were true. But as i said system were true. But as i said earlier, these are exceptional circumstances and we need to act quickly and decisively. Time is quickly and decisively. Time is one thing that we and the convicted postmasters do not have. Convicted postmasters do not have. Our arrangement will apply have. Our arrangement will apply to all those convicted in england and wales, based on post Office Investigations , including Office Investigations, including those prosecuted by other bodies who relied on the products of those investigations as the fruit of a poisoned tree. We have plenty more work to do on this solution. We need to prepare the legislation and i want to discuss our solution with the Advisory Board. I am meeting them later this afternoon. Some prosecutor runs have been undertaken in scotland and Northern Ireland, where justice is devolved. We are, of course , engaging the scottish course, engaging the scottish and Northern Irish administrations in respect of wrongful convictions in their jurisdictions. We will do these jurisdictions. We will do these things as quickly as we can and keep the house informed and the house will have heard that we are well aware of the imperfections of this solution. I am sure that this will attract some critics , but when theyre some critics, but when theyre criticised , of course, i then criticised, of course, i then invite them to say what they would do otherwise. Would they would do otherwise. Would they leave many people suffering under the burden of unjust convictions for many years , or convictions for many years, or perhaps forever . Thats Kevin Hollinrake there. The post office minister, setting out the governments plans to deal with this post office crisis. We heard there , office crisis. We heard there, um, tens of thousands of pounds offered to subpostmasters will sing a law shortly for parliament which will exonerate and compensate the victims of this scandal and were still got our fantastic top politicians with us live in this studio. Esther mcvey , cabinet esther mcvey, cabinet minister and Anneliese Dodds, who is in the shadow cabinet as Labour Party Chair. I want to finish by bringing you another question. Its a case study really , and its a case study really, and its quite a painful one, but i think which illustrates the situation that many brits are in right now. And ill put this to you estimate its from fiona , a 49 estimate its from fiona, a 49 year old woman who who lives alone. She brought up two sons alone, and shes really proud of that. Um, shes got a variable mortgage. I work from home. I claim no benefits. Yes, i earn £24,000 a year. My mortgage has increased £300 since 2010, as has Everything Else ive been working for her from home, being unable to be warm. My wages arent lasting. How do you think arent lasting. How do you think you could convince fiona to vote for you . She is asking. Right . So i remember when i was in that situation, when mortgages went up and that is your money eking away , i get your money eking away, i get that. So that is a awful position to be in. And that is why it is key that weve got to get the economy on track. So thats why rishi made it his number one priority to get inflation down and Interest Rates need to come down. And thatis rates need to come down. And that is why the conservative government put four energy bills, 100 billion. They put into the economy. So i would say, fiona , you know, stay say, fiona, you know, stay strong because this is a really difficult, difficult time. And look, i would also say if you do need help , please reach out and need help, please reach out and get help. If you need help, get help. But that is why rishi sunak turn the economy sunak will turn the economy around. Dont let Anneliese Dodds ruin that from the labour party. Yeah, women like fiona shouldnt have to put up with this. I mean, there are so many. Fionas out there and their incomes have gone down in real terms since 2010. Theyre paying far higher bills now than they were back then. They need were back then. They need concrete action, not just stick with us. And everything is going to be okay. That hasnt worked over last 14 years. For over the last 14 years. For women fiona, thats why women like fiona, thats why they need to see change now, labour right now wed be labour said. Right now wed be insulating homes to get bills down for people like fiona. Wed be getting those energy costs down well. With the gp, down as well. With the gp, Energy Company that we started in lockdown because i knew these impacts, globe daily about energy bills, about Interest Rates, labour party, you voted, i voted against it. And this is why weve now got to get the country try and take on track. On track. You can try and take the rishi is doing, you can try and take the focus away. Im not from the kind of day to day problems that women like fiona face. Or you can face. I have not. Or you can actually that she actually accept that what she says is the reality for millions of women up and down our country. And thats why i have been there and thats why. No, no anneliese, thats why i said globally , the world is going globally, the world is going through this and what weve got to do is have a vision, which rishi has got long time vision to go forward. Thats why he pay the bills. Inflation policy change come down and thats change will come down and thats why hes bringing Interest Rates down. Labour is awful with the economy and things would only get worse. Get worse. Youre only going to be borrowing from 20 up until one day. Its been a fantastic show chris. It really has. I think this shows the tone and the passion of an Election Year on the election channel. Thank you to our guests. Fiona. Im listen, if you need help, please make sure you call up the dwp. If you need call up the dwp. If you need help, dont sit there alone without many people to say thank you to esther mcvey, canadas minister Anneliese Dodds, the chair of the labour party , for chair of the labour party, for coming on our first show. And thank you so much for sending in your questions. You. Do again thank you. Do it again next week we be weve week. We will be back. Weve loved asking your questions. Theyre so much better than ouis. Ours. Thats right. Dont go anywhere. Next up is good afternoon britain tom and. Pip. Good afternoon britain. Its 1 00 on tuesday, the 10th of january. Post or pressure . Ministers are scrambling to piece together a solution to quash the convictions of hundreds of wrongly convicted postmasters. Postmasters. Mr nobody, the labour leader, accuses rishi sunak of flip flopping over the governments rwanda plan ahead of next weeks dramatic showdown. The prime dramatic showdown. The Prime Minister hit back , accusing sir minister hit back, accusing sir keir starmer of priority missing people smugglers ahead of the british people. British people. Meanwhile, sir keir starmer has accused rishi sunak of being mr nobody and of course, rishi sunak hit back. But thats