Like housing Kevin Tripp Kay a.b.c. News a section of torts speech is closed after the bodies of 2 men were found in the sand made the discovery just after 7 this morning here via Riviera. Helicopter footage from local stations show yellow tarp over the bodies not far from the shore Torrance Police are out there investigating and have released any information in Florida governor Rhonda Santa says residents in the path of Hurricane Dorian should assume there are going to be power outages to Santa said today that major power companies have positioned thousands of people throughout the state to deal with power outages the Santa says government officials are demanding accountability from assisted living homes and they are requiring each facility to have a plan in place in the event power goes out and a toxicology report released today shows Los Angeles pitcher Tyler skanks had. An alcohol in the system when he was found dead in this Texas Hotel the death has been ruled an accident. 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This is where you have be even this is our American stories and we chat with authors of all sorts and well all kinds of books here too and today we're joined by Sam Walker the founding editor of The Wall Street Journal sports section and the author of the captain class the hidden force the creates the world's greatest teams and Sam look there's no better way to start a bar fight than to pick the greatest teams in the world I mean that's really hard and also you could have a bar fight deciding what's a sport what's a team talk about both of those things and was it hard or was it easy sometimes telling me it's pretty hard I thought it would be easy you know I had those arguments at the bar and you know they always ended just someone storming out because it was impossible to answer and what I realized was that this really no set criteria for how we define greatness and no one had really done a rigorous study or tried to actually nail it down so that was that one of the toughest things I had to do at the beginning was to find greatness and in the end what I decided was that we have to be a little more specific about what team is a team has to have a certain number of people can't be 2 people that's who are partners I finally decided that 55 people was really the point at which Herb contributions and group chemistry was more important than individual performance so basketball was really a small sport that I studied had another set of questions which was how do you define great and you know for me one of the problems is when people talk about great teams there's no real set. At a time that we applied to it a lot of people talk about teams that were grouped in one season or an incredible undefeated season but what I really want to study what I realize was important is teams that had sustained their dominance for a long time because I think any team can get lucky they can win a championship in one season or 2 seasons but really to rule out luck completely and to talk about culture and chemistry then you really have to set the bar for years and let's talk about some competing theories that are out there because the name of your book is The captain class some people think it's the coaches some people think it's the management some people think it's that superstar player or the team of players what led you to this categorization and your choice to study the captains I was completely shocked I had all of the same assumptions that I think everyone does when I finally identify these teams that's what years and years of work I went through 25000 teams entire history of sports it's all over the world and I got down to 17 of them and you know the 1st thing I looked at was tell right I thought talent would be the thing you know but a quickly realized some of these teams you know they all were talented but some had talent that was clearly at her church or even mediocre in some cases So wasn't that the 2nd that I was coaching you know it's gotten to my great surprise there wasn't a pattern there I'm not saying coaching isn't important but some of these teams had more than one coach you know they changed coaches or you know some didn't have coaches or coaches who really didn't take an active role in fact only one of them had a coach who was considered a great coach when their run of dominance began so that wasn't the magic bullet I was looking for I also looked at things like tactics you know I thought maybe they just had incredible brilliant strategies that stood out above the rest but again you know only a handful of them could say so that was a pattern either it didn't have a good do it organization or even management at the higher levels. The only thing that they all had in common and it was slap your forehead obvious and it was just so plain as day when I looked at it was that these runs of greatness these long street Saddam they always corresponded almost precisely to the arrival and departure of one player and that player in every single case was the leader of the team the captain. And let's take a deep dive in Dear Captain theory with the 1st captain I want to talk about and this great American sports franchise called the Boston Celtics Bill Russell who was he. Bill Russell is in my mind the greatest team leader in sports history and what that team accomplished I've never seen anything the likes I mean they want to level n.b.a. Championships in 13 seasons and people forget we talk about the the bowls of Michael Jordan the Warriors today Bron James you know what we don't see that incredible consistency the whole notion of a team that has won 10 n.b.a. Titles and yet still hungry to win in the 11th it's kind of incredible and they pulled it off year after year and now again at St began and it with Bill Russell started his rookie season when they won their 1st championship and the Celtics had never wanted title before and the year he retired was the last chance championship of the street in the following season they didn't even make it to 500 make the playoffs as many more years for them to return to glory so this was completely bracketed by Bill Russell and I want to make the point very clearly that I'm not saying that all you need is a great captain to have a great team I mean you need a lot of things a lot of things have to work but to me the captain is really like the urbanists it's you know if you had to to the nouns and the punctuation all these other things might be more interesting more memorable but without the verb it's not a sense it doesn't work together and that's kind of the role these captains play in bring these arms together and Russell is such a great example because Russell was absolutely on the court completely strange he was a big man who did not score which is very unusual for the day and you know back then defenders were falsely their feet you know but he would fly through the air and block shots and he played this ferocious brand of defense was complete. Leave the relentless You know what ever seen anything like that and his numbers were not startling So people didn't understand and you know off the court too he was strange and he didn't care about it or since he didn't sign autographs he was very prickly with the press and didn't really seem to care much about the fans or being a role model or anything that we associate with with leadership you know in fact he turned down the hall of fame you know when he was inducted it's I didn't want any part of it people thought he was a really what they didn't understand it was that all he cared about was the collective accomplishments of the team and all his effort everything went inside the team and inside the team a team that loved him you know and everything about me I understood him completely and they would do anything for him and on the court you know he understood that you know what the team didn't need was someone pouring it baskets and getting the highlight reel and he had someone who do all the unglamorous crap work every dirty job done in order to help the team win and that was his role so he is just the epitome of great leadership and he was I misunderstood his time and you know I think only today were really start to understand the full dimensions of what he brought to the team and anyone who was around during the day know Bill Russell was by the way universities and Francisco took him straight. Well when we come back more say I'm walking off of the captain class this is Allen and. I I. I. I. Our ancestors' past there with small folks like Dick and we have the car dash and. Now we may not have the 1000. Of hours to watch all the great t.v. Out there but many of our ancestors didn't have a single hour the thing was one hour wasn't one hour any of it it took 6 hours of labor to earn the tallow candles of the day that would let you read for an hour or 2 decades after the 1st oil well was drilled lamps using this oil flow or the labor cost to 15 minutes. A world of difference and yet still a rather large investment today if the choir's only a fraction of a 2nd America's coal and natural gas powering our reading after we can take only so much. To hear more episodes go to the y. 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This is our American stories and we're back with Sam Walker the author of the captain class the hidden force the creates the world's greatest teams we were just talking about Bill Russell the Boston Celtics and c.m. You began the book with the words of this legendary Captain quote my ego demands for myself the success of my team. Yeah I know I love that I had such a great encapsulation of what you need to be if you want to be a great leader and you know all the different ways that you need to think about your role and much you need to harden you to work and how much of yourself you need to just forget about you know really need to kind of get yourself completely to the goals the herb and that's something that we're not trying to do as a schools are teaching people to do that selflessness in self-sacrifice aren't generally words people use for most C.E.O.'s in America we can we can say that safely Sam talk about the Coleman play because one of the things about Bill Russell I'm going to learn this more about some of these other captains is this word called Desire and my goodness anybody who played around Bill Russell understood what that word meant. So this is one of my favorite stories because I think it it shows one of the characteristics that we all kind of know isn't Wharton but that we don't really understand why it's important and that is relentlessness and Bill Russell was relentless and he to an extreme he would get sick before every game they play meaningless games you throw up in the locker room and in fact if you didn't for office you may say Russ to go throw up 5 What's wrong with you. Because he cared so much but the colon play was a perfect example of why this matters now this happened in the Ins rookie season the myth the n.b.a. Files and The Game 7 against the Santos hawks and now this is one of the 1st game sevens and it was just a huge of a credible pressure and Russell as a rookie you know lately game boss and a one point Lee is what a minute left and Bosie going to rebound and Russell charged on the court and he tried to dump all this stuff this time in the mist and St Louis got the rebound and now St Louis affording Jack home and had been sort of hanging back behind the play and they quickly inbound the ball to him at midcourt and he's at midcourt with the ball in a running start now Russell who had missed that duck Where was he he was underneath his own basket off the court on the other side he was about 96 heat from the basket and Coleman was 545 the start but when Coleman came to the room to make a lay up now this is late again they were taking a lead in the end this blur appeared behind him so out of the ball and it was Russell and he had somehow twice the distance that Coleman had in the same time I mean nobody on in that arena or with Saudi had a chance and he certainly must not have even known himself but just that raw desire that he demonstrated over and over again and how Titian the thing about it is that was consistent for him and what we do. Matter stands that studies have shown that well let's this is highly contagious you know if a group of people in this doing something together thinks that one person in that group is giving 100 percent effort a real maximum effort that all of them will raise their own performance if you have someone in your midst like that who was relentless and committed to playing at all times and 100 percent there are going to be serious marginal hands that you will you will see in your team work and that's just not something we can quantify so it's not something that we teach but I think it's about start we've all been around people who have that kind of drive and focus and what it does to our game we raise our game we raise the bar and when those people aren't present we don't even know where the bar is right exactly you know it's funny because there are some of motions that are contagious inside a group and relentless This is contagious always in a good way toughness is always contagious and if you show toughness and perseverance others will too and another one is emotional control or something all these leaders have they had the ability to overcome really difficult personal circumstances and not just didn't he well compete at a higher level than ever and Tom Brady of the Patriots is a great example of this you know a couple seasons you know after this whole deflate gets to ation in the service suspension but he came back and played one of his greatest seasons but even after they won the Super Bowl this incredible comeback against the laugh elegance we find out that his mother had been undergoing chemotherapy you know and had been diagnosed with cancer that season so use going through that he never said a word no one knew about it and he had the control to put that away into play as hard as he could and it's plain deal with separately and no doubt we're going to get to Brady in a little bit because it's such a fascinating chapter in your book but let's talk about one more basketball player because I don't think he gets the credit he deserves Tim Duncan of the sin in Tonio Spurs talk about to me Duncan who is he. He is a very unusual guy he was a great swimmer I mean really had incredible talent could have maybe even been an Olympic swimmer but you know the hurricane came in and destroyed the local pool and about the same time his mother passed away and you know he had a these hard knocks and he started picking up basketball and was very want their crude in fact way forces one on the schools that really took him seriously a very skinny kid in this had grown into his body but you know he got there and really mature and became a really hot and be a prospect but you know I don't think anyone really thought that he was going to become the star that he was or that he would develop skills a way to but the thing that's fascinating about tender there are 2 things I think so much about him that is instructive for leaders but I think the most important thing really is the way he played he had the talent to dominate the n.b.a. In terms of scoring you know any of the famous gaudy statistics but if you look at his totals It's really amazing to me some years he was very prolific for some years it was not his blocks and rebounds other things were off the charts he would change his position on the court and play different positions the pending on the makeup of the team it just showed they had the same quality that Russell hat which is that he didn't care what its numbers were or what he thought of them or whether he got on the cover of magazines he only cared about the team winning and he would do whatever grunt work needed to be done and he would change his role to fit but the thing about Tim Duncan that really everyone is the way he communicates I was completely surprised when I looked at these cabins because the 1st thing I thought the 1st way that you know to meet a team is is with a speech you give a big speech right you motivate them with words and none of these tabs and state beaches and they did not like to do it so the purposely avoided and I did not understand this. Another state how they communicate effectively with a team is up I went right to Duncan because if you there watched him give an interview you know that he is not a charismatic guy he sounds like he's going it cold ask Pete when he's answering questions he just has no motions he's monosyllabic right he doesn't come across as a charismatic person so how does he communicate well he talks a lot but it's a different sort of communication he's always working the room talking individually to one person and one on one incredible intense stares uses his I contact and gestures and talks to communicate very intensive people and he listens as much as he talks a lecture he listens and he has interactions all the time and he has them in the moment especially when someone has done something wrong or needs courage and that's when he springs into action and when I realize that the Spurs talk more than any team say and they're always talking on the floor on the bench because the communication and this creates an atmosphere everyone feels like they can contribute they feel heard and they also feel like they have to account for themselves and all the problems that team had or addressed in the moment nothing ever festered this talkative style that they have allowed them to address problems in the moment to move past them and that's why they were so good for so long as why they made the playoffs and 1000 consecutive seasons with the incredible revolving cast of players and won 5 champions and had the greatest long term winning percentage in n.b.a. History it was because that that whole climate that Duncan created you know allowed them to slot new people and get them talking and solving problems so even though they didn't always have the best or so not the most money they were the most dominant team of their And yet. We're talking to Sam Walker author of accepting class who wanted to refer to series is that through Tim Duncan wherever you might put him in the pantheon of great. 19 consecutive playoff 5 championships and the best winning percentage in National Basketball Association fishery and by the way if you like what we do here in our American story speaking of police trying to raise the bar and lead the dialogue maybe be the captain of the class and storytelling go to our American Network dot org and sign up for our free newsletter 5 best stories each week you'll get them and also please send the link to a friend if you like what you're hearing please help us succeed in the markets and in the marketplace of ideas and stories we're working hard to get this out to the American people there's a lot of screaming there's a lot of yelling there's a lot of these shows always about well injuries do compelling and good things when we come back Sam Walker author of the capping class here on our American story. This is Alice Cortez with our American stories I'm on the road a lot of good cops are a lot of the great stories that you love to hear on our American stories including that of my co-founder Michael and doubtless you can go to our American Network dot org to hear our hour with Mike but the reason I'm bringing this soft is ever since I bought a my pillow I can't stand on the road and have to sleep on this heap o. Folks but these hotels have they really need to stock themselves so my pillows I'm not kidding right now I'm actually going myself to my pillow dot com and getting 2 of their go anywhere else so. Any time when I'm on the road I don't have to suffer through this again and I can sleep when I do at home and then when Mike has a special offer for us his 4 packs special are you get to premier my pills and to go anywhere else and you can bring to these hotels on airplanes R.V.'s yachts forever. On my pillow on the road it's 50 percent off of you use our promo code stories go to my pillow dot com stories. 70000000 to. $139.00 Here's a grim discovery on the beach in torrent 2 bodies were spotted on towards the beach at about 7 am On Friday police quickly began setting up a wide crime scene aerial images showed the bodies covered with a yellow tarp about halfway between the water line and the bathrooms near dolphin park Kevin Tripp Kate a.b.c. News Florida governor Ronda Santa says residents in the path of Hurricane Dorian should assume they're going to be without power the Santa said today that major power companies have position thousands of people throughout the state to deal with power outages and 2 years of free college tuition is a proposal being supported by California Governor Gavin Newsome he spoke in Los Angeles today for all those other governors and all those other states say well we can't afford it you know I just too much for us right now is so many other priorities we are proving not asserting that it can be done California already pays for 1st year of community college tuition a new proposal would extend that to a 2nd year it only applies to 1st time in full time students a need to be California residents with a high school diploma critics point out that a plan would cost taxpayers about 42000000 dollars each year and actress Valerie Harper is dead at the age of 80 her death falls a 2 $1013.00 diagnosis of terminal brain cancer in which she was only given a month to live she is best known for Emmy a winning performance on the 1970 s. Television series The Mary Tyler Moore Show. An accidental overdose appears to be what killed Los Angeles pitcher Tyler skanks in Texas the county medical examiner released their toxicology report today saying a lethal amount of alcohol. Were in his system k b c sports Los Angeles Boston one before the Dodgers are on top of Arizona and the Rams are cutting 18 players as part of their initial cut following preseason play that's the new home of the u.s.c. Trojans So Cal weather tonight 70 is low tomorrow Sunny I have 86 currently 73 in Long Beach 71 Huntington Beach and 76 here 700. $95.00 a cheat. On 798 Camp last. Cast at k b c dot com. Here's. How the looking at the work through the night let's find out have a look at the roadways. To traffic. Through the orange area we have a crash on the 57 the 5 freeway looks like the luck play the transition road to 5 going to be shut down for a while due to. The. Trash blocking there the 2 right lanes and looks like a crash just about in the clearance stages him. Walking right shoulder. As we say the price goes basically let us go what's better than discovering the best books music and movies and half price books saving 20 percent on everything you find that's right it's going on now get 20 percent off your entire home Euclid a new releases bestsellers your favorite classics even collectibles would you love and which you didn't even know you were looking for and save 20 percent on everything at Half Price Books and they. Basically. Hunting great candidates to hire can be like well trying to find a needle in a haystack sure you can post your job to some job board but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along which is why you should try zipper courier for free zipper cruder doesn't depend on candidates finding you it finds them for you it's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job you get qualified candidates fast so while other companies might deliver a lot of hey zipper cruder find you what you're looking for the needle in the haystack around a 5 employers who posted job and super secret are going to quality candidate through their site within the 1st day zip recruiter. The smartest way to hire and right now you can tries it recruiter for free that's right free just go to this exclusive web address zip recruiter dot com slash search that zip recruiter dot com slash search zip recruiter dot com slash search. This is our American stories and we continue our conversation with Sam Walker author of the captain class and for anybody out there who's listening leading anything and anyone who's a sports fan but even if you're not what a great discussion we were just talking about Tim Duncan probably the highest paid person to ever have written an academic psychology paper again in college Sam he coauthored one titled blowhard snobs and narcissists into personal reactions to excessive egotism in the opening paragraph is the line quote Simply put we don't like egotistical people so even as an undergrad Tim Duncan got it. It just shows you the level of intelligence emotional intelligence that these great leaders have and I don't know I think I think that my sense with Duncan I've never spoken to him about this and I was very proud of the paper but I think that really was who he was and that that research that he did really explained to him that who he was as a leader you wouldn't look like a leader that you would you would pick out of a crowd I mean Tim it's always said if you walked into practice you would never imagine that he was the leader of the team because he didn't he wasn't a lots of oyster he was a huge presence of a charismatic person who barked out orders he didn't do any things that we use a supposed to do what I found in my book and what I hope is inspiring in it to people is that you know you may not think that you have your shit characteristics you need think that there are things that you just aren't good at but really the truth is that all of the things that these leaders were really about behavior and the choices that they made in the team context every day and behavior can be modeled leadership can be can be improved choices when he better and when you start to understand what leadership really involves and you start to separate out the myths and you can see why someone like Tim Duncan may not be the guy on posters in every kid's bedroom but he is by far the winningest and most effective leader of his generation you know his coach once said that Duncan didn't have an ounce of m.t.v. In him he even agreed to be paid less than market value why did he do that what was he thinking on his agent muster went to me What are you talking about you want the maximum so I can get the maximum commission what are you doing you know Tom Brady did the same thing with the Patriots and you can restructure its contract every year so they can have more salary cap room to sign other players I mean it's that's what you do he's made more money I'm sure than he ever imagined he would make his life and as most of his players have and it's not an affectation that he cared about. Team and the team's result that's where all his satisfaction came from and much more than his satisfaction from having more money in the bank or having you know yet another super car his garage and that stuff didn't matter and he's an incredible person and you know I have so much respect for him and I I do think that there's a lot of appreciation for him but he's often left out of the conversation when people talk about the greatest players of all time and I just don't understand I don't understand this Hall of Fame mentality where you know we separate out an individual from his teammates and say This person deserves special praise I don't understand I mean I think they knew that they are whatever they are accomplishments we're all depend on other people as divided team into what's important parts it's less important part one you know indeed I want to quote from the book because it's such a good quote and it's something we all know and experience in any workplace quote one of the great paradoxes of management is that the people who pursue leadership positions most ardently are often the wrong people for the job you then cited a study of superstars C.E.O.'s and now as they lift themselves up they often lower others in the process Tim Duncan in so many members of your Captain class they did the exact opposite talk about that well my favorite example of this is a woman named Carla over back and I doubt that you immediately remember that name she was the captain of that great 1999 u.s. Women's soccer team that won the World Cup and you know really dominated that's ort for about 56 years just one of the best soccer teams of all time and you remember Mia Hamm and Julie Foudy and Brandi chest pain all the big stars of that team but there's a reason you don't know Carla over back it's because she did not care she did not won you know she was she had no interest in. Follett whatsoever any personal accolades and she was not the best player in the team she was defender and you should never do anything flashy she never scored she you know would would pass the ball off the minute she got into one of her teammates and she you know she just played with this relentless pace but what was amazing about her that I think she understood what leadership is really about and it's really about service she was incredible with this because she did things I've never seen before when this team would go on a long road trip to Japan or Norway they would get to their hotel they'd be exhausted and they'd get a knock on the door and open it up and it was Carla over back who was carrying their bags from the bus to their rooms for us is the captain of the team doing this I asked her who are coaches about this I said how is this leadership how does this help or be a leader and he said you know she knew exactly what she was doing because Carl Overbeck would do these things on behalf of her teammates and they understood that to her all she cared about was the collective the team she did not care about ourselves to do anything for that and this gave her a certain amount of currency like a bank account that she could spend what she needed and she would spend it on the field because the minute that someone messed up or was not focus you'd be all over that or encouraging them when they did something great and it meant something everyone understood who she was and what she was all about and it had great power when she did it in competition and made the team better let's talk about football now one and 2 teams in particular 1st the 1970 s. Pittsburgh Steeler teams who is Jack Wennberg And why did you include him in this book most folks think of Terry Bradshaw when they think of the powerhouse Steeler team why was Jack Lambert the guy you focused on the really the heart and soul that he was defense I mean was extraordinary historically great defense and that was really the the unit that drove the team forward and just looked them over to Jack Lambert showed up I mean. Never want to Super Bowl 40 there and you know never and now they're you know they're one market than any other team and you know they are they are really a creation of Lambert's tenacious style and it's aggressive play and is relentlessness Jack Lambert was a player who had an understanding of something that all these easily captains knew to some extent but I think you are the best example of that they understood the power of nonverbal communication of just gestures they understood that there were moments where they needed to do something in full view of their teammates that would show their level of commitment passion is that would transfer to them and allow them to play harder and Jack Lemmon was famous of course for the loss a couple teeth and I school playing pick up basketball any had a percentage denture that he wore in public but he would take it off on the field so they had a toothless you know mouth and he would scare people so that was part of it but my favorite track on every story that I think shows you. Of his leadership was that they were playing a game I believe in 1970 'd 6 and they had won the Super Bowl but they started one in 4 people written them off like it's over for the Steelers and they had to win this game they had to beat the Bengals and he want to play a part of the 5 games career in terms of number of tackles he recovered fumbles he basically accounted for most esteemed points singlehandedly so it was an incredible game but on the middle of this game he had came to the end had a cut on his hand and he bandaged it up and you know he went out there and of course the band just failed in the blood starts burning out it was all over his uniforms pants I mean it was a mess I tracked down one of the trainers and I asked him why didn't you know you just rewrap that then when he came off the field or changes uniform have time or something and he said your stand his exact Lambert. As you know for me he understood how powerful that message was and how much harder it made his teammates play and how much intimidate his opponents and he did that on purpose and Jack lever did all kinds of things that might seem crazy or on interest but when you listen to talk about it he always says look these were calculated acts these were things that I did you know on purpose because I understood the power they would have hours to affect her out on the team and you know that's one of the reasons that the team was so so consistently the one for Super Bowls and 6 years as the teams that were done and what great storytelling and when we come back the final segment with Sam Walker more stories to come author of the captain class this is our American story here. At code are 67000 u.s. Employees making things. Like automotive technology that steers you in the right direction in 1000 times last coke we make that. 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And we're back with our final segment of our conversation with Sam Walker the founding editor of The Wall Street Journal sports section and author of the captain Quest the hidden force the creates the world's greatest teams it's a terrific read go to Amazon dot com and order it you won't be disappointed I had to read something to you Sam from quarterback John Elway of course he played at Denver and this was him talking about Jack Lambert and by the way he was a rookie and here's what he wrote Lambert had no teeth he was slobbering all over himself and I'm thinking you can have your money back just get me outta here let me go be an accountant I can't tell you how badly I want it out of there and so you were talking about all this nonverbal communication my goodness it didn't just fire up his team it scared the heck out of the opponents about courage and how captains develop you know a lot of it comes from emotional control and you know we don't think of Jack Lambert as being someone who is emotionally controlled but like all of these great athletes you know he was not someone who got in trouble off field and he was not someone who got a lot of balls and none of these captains there were really very quiet off the field Jack Lambert was really Tripper it private person and he was a big reader and you know the road trips he would he would often just sit in his room reading a book I mean he wasn't an outsized character that aggression that he out of the field didn't translate. The rest of life and I was going to solve all of these athletes and you know I think it's a way of redefining courage because he poured everything into football and all of his aggression always passed everything you know he would he would put it all out on the field and you know when he wasn't there he had this incredible ability to shut it off and to kind of return to normal and to to be a quieter person and you know that's a form of courage that we don't really understand its ability to control your emotions you know being able to do that you know it's not courage in the sense of real running up the hill in a rain of bullets and some big military battle but it's a different sort of courage that I think is very contagious because I think people see you dealing with your emotions that way being able to control that unable to target them toward objectives and I think it gives everyone a better understanding of how to operate a team environment and what courage really is let's talk about Tom Brady at the University of Michigan where he plays as a collegian no one could imagine what would have been in store for him as an n.f.l. Player he was a 6th round draft pick and had trouble keeping the starting job in college the last . Did you Henson it was you know foot to be the next great you know quarterback the 2nd coming of you know Joe Montana Yeah no he went through a lot and you know. The fact that he even got on the field was a fluke because he only got to play because when the serious injury to Drew Bledsoe and it really shows you you know that it's very easy sometimes to not look inside someone I mean I think he had great talent physical talent and you know we've seen many flashes of that Michigan but what was really lurking inside him was incredible elite leadership ability and you know also great tactical mind and all those things that you know I think scouts too often dismiss Brady was tough because you know Brady's accomplishments I know everyone loves to talk about Brady and greatness of the Patriots but you know until I believe this season when they made another Super Bowl and won 88 straight after championship games you know their record was very similar to the 49 ers in that long stretch where they were very dominant so same number superballs roughly the same winning percentage so I had a very hard time saying either one of those teams was unique so initially for the hard cover I didn't put the Patriots and but later on I after they made that Super Bowl I decided put them in because I thought their record clearly outpaced the 49 ers But the thing about Brady that stands out to me the most beyond his leadership quality is his relationship as coach and that is something that is fascinating to me and I said the coaches weren't the important factor the crucial factor and I don't think they are but what's really important in these great teams with coaches is that they have a partnership with their captain and I saw this over and over again it wasn't a boss employee kind of relationship Bill Belichick in Tom Brady had this relationship that was unusual it was like the relationship 10 Duncan had Gregg Popovich it was very affectionate and as a lot of love between them but. They knew how to fight and they would fight all the time they would come into conflict about tactics never personal it was always about how teams playing don't check would go to team meetings and rip Brady in front of everyone for mistakes and. Brady would take it and I would tell everyone that no one is above the team but you know if Tom Brady like the Superbowl playbook that is given he would tell him to rip it up and start over so that partnership I think was really under-rated if you remember that 1st season Tom Brady can use a 6th round draft pick no one thought was anything and Bill Belichick was a guy who got fired at Cleveland no one thought had the chops to be a head coach and together they became 2 of the legends of football but I don't think you can separate them I don't think it was something they could have achieved individually I think that partnership in their ability to work together was so important and I think the message for coaches and people managers and people who are trying to assemble teams with this kind of leadership model is that you've got to pick someone to lead that team that you can really partner with and that you respect and that you can really trees appear I think that's true and there was a balance of power you wrote about in a mutual respect and that fighting wasn't a bad thing and you equate the great captains and coaches to married couples I was lucky to see a great marriage my mom and dad would fight like cats and dogs and it was over right after the fight and then I'd see him loving each other and then when they disagreed they'd go at it and it was respect for each other and they taught me how to fight which is a wonderful thing people who can disagree and then carry on you're giving the greatest gift in the world it's true at so under-rated and it's funny because especially in sports there's this weird sense that conflict is that you know there's certain players and I think about these cabins when they were not. I mean they would push back on anything they didn't think was the best interest of the team other was something big or small they would push back against. Coaches they were prospective answer team it was well they were willing to stand apart and you talk about courage and that's an under rated form of courage it's the ability to just dissent from the group and science has actually shown that that there is a an element of physical discomfort that comes with the ending apart so it's something that's not easy to do and yet it's so crucial you know all the studies that have been done a team performance show the teams that really work together and in close ways as they do in sports a certain level of conflict is essential but there's a different kind of conflict there's 2 kinds really there's a kind of conflict called Task conflict which is really about an argument about process about how the team is doing something or how they should do something and there's another form of conflict which is personal conflict this is when the source of the conflict is really just I don't like you and there's a real difference at all these cabins whenever they introduce conflict in their teens they mean a huge point to makes clear that it wasn't personal they never singled out individuals they never blamed any one person it was always about the collective and it was always about the task in the process and it's a huge difference it's so easy to mistake those 2 things and look at someone who is creating conflict as a bad thing when you not run necessarily looking at why they're doing it or how they are doing it and that was one of the real secrets I feel like I'm covered something I had no idea about until I really took our look at it Sam You wrote something fascinating about all these captains that they were more like jazz musicians than conductors and that they freely improvised on and off the court to get the job done. It was one of the things I had never considered when I think about teams but there was a famous researcher named Richard Hackman who was a Harvard psychologist who passed away a few years ago he spent all his career imbedded with performance teams that do things in real time whether airplane cockpit crews or emergency room units or even symphony orchestras and he would watch the way leadership work and what he discovered was so. Parallel to what I found in these teams which is that the leaders charisma and talent did not it just wasn't a factor they could have it they could not have it didn't really make a difference all that mattered in fact in terms of leadership inside a group is that every single important function of leadership gets done that said anything that needs to be done in order to help the team from a leadership perspective long as someone does it doesn't have to be the leader. Somebody else and all these great teams what you saw was that these captains had established themselves as the person who would do anything if there's a burning building that no one else wants to go into they're going to go into it and once that's established and basically everyone on the team with a superstar or bench player understands that they're free to do their jobs and focus on what they need to do and if they want to contribute to leadership they can they can do with the ways they want to do the things that they're good at Lord's mentorship or being the sparkplug or being sheriff or doing something else to help the team as a group and you start to see this happening this beautiful symphony that starts where everyone does what they're good at and everyone pitches in and every single function of leadership gets taken care of and a great leader will never feel territorial never feel unhappy that someone is doing a leadership function because frankly this is a hard job being a great leader and sustaining actual incident credibly taxing and difficult and anyone who's doing it the right way will be so happy to have help and assistance from others. Well in this book will help others in the system to we've been talking to Sam Walker the founding editor of The Wall Street Journal's sports section and author of the captain class the hidden force that creates the world's greatest teams pick it up on Amazon I promise you you will not be disappointed and Sam thanks so much for doing this and by the way go to our American Network dot org to hear all that we do sign up for our free newsletter 5 best stories each week they come in audio form and in print form and again oil have to do is give us your e-mail address to go to our American Network dot org The captain class fam Walker's latest This is our American story. I'm. Tired of scanning the. Search for a.t.m. 790 k. D.c. Joining me for trojans for September the pocket. It's u.s.c. Trojans are looking for. Right here j a d.c. Los Angeles Galaxy 62 Los Angeles those 2 knew the station. Right. Here's critics of Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti almost record are calling for protesters to March the mayor's house organizer and also wants other residents to hear their protest on Saturday we want to raise awareness not only for the homeless epidemic and everything is not being done for them but we also want to let other enjoy you know know. There who really care Dalton who is himself running for mayor also holds some protesters will set up encampment sink our city's neighborhood he says the idea is for protesters to begin the March from different neighborhoods and end the day and getting house which is the mayor's official residence we asked our city staff for comment but did not hear back value Harper's brave battle with cancer is so for the comic legend died today at the age of 80 she was diagnosed in 2013 with a rare.