Ly from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh president trumps nominee for the director of national intelligence is taking himself out of the running Congressman John Rachleff was facing a difficult confirmation process in the u.s. Senate where some lawmakers questioned his qualifications for leading the intelligence community President Trump tweeted that Radcliffe is a great Republican who is being treated unfairly by quote lame stream media the outgoing d.n.i. Is Dan Coats who often clashed with President Trump over Russia's breach of the 2016 presidential election and the extent of the threat the Kremlin still poses to the u.s. Is democratic system President Trump has signed a bipartisan budget bill that sets spending levels for the next 2 years N.P.R.'s Tamara Keith reports the legislation also raises the debt limit in theory this should push off budget battles until 2021 it allows nearly $1.00 trillion dollars in spending on defense and domestic programs over the next 2 years and it also raises the debt limit allowing the u.s. Government to continue paying its bills and avoiding default fiscal conservatives in Congress raised alarms that this deal will add to the national debt but the measure passed easily with President Trump's urging there's always plenty of time to cut he tweeted but those spending cuts would come after the 2020 Alexion Tamara Keith n.p.r. News a judge in Stockholm Sweden has released rapper Asap Rocky from jail this coming after a 3 day trial in connection with an assault charge but N.P.R.'s enter limbo reports there is still no verdict in the case according to reports the judge said the verdict won't be handed down until August 14th until then Rocky and his 2 associates who are also charged with assault are free to leave the country the incident occurred in Stockholm on June 30th video posted by the rapper since 2 men following him and his bodyguard and crew. After being told to leave them alone video posed by t m z show snippets of the actual fight in which Rocky appears to throw one of the men onto the ground in his testimony on Thursday Rocky said it was self-defense that he thought the men were on drugs it's been a high profile case even getting attention from President Trump who celebrated the rappers released in a tweet saying get home asap. N.p.r. News departmental judge in New York is recommending that the New York City Police Department Fire Officer Daniel pan to lay out today the judge ruled that officer Penta Layo used an illegal chokehold on an unarmed black man Eric Garner 5 years ago who died after he was arrested for allegedly selling loose cigarettes garners cry of I can't breathe became a rallying cry that gave rise to the black lives matter movement the decision on Officer ventilator was still not final the city's police commissioner has the last word on whether to dismiss him today with u.s. Secretary of state Mike pump a 0 and we have more from N.P.R.'s Lauren Frayer India's foreign minister Subrahmanyam Josh Shankar tweeted that he told Pompei a quote in clear terms that any discussion on Kashmir if it all warranted will only be with Pakistan and only bilaterally the Himalayan territory of Kashmir is divided between India and Pakistan if several wars over it President Trump has offered to become a mediator over Kashmir he said last month that India's prime minister asked him to do so something India denies Pakistan has long sought international mediation over Kashmir but India has refused it Josh Shankar and Pompei all met on the sidelines of an Asian security forum in Bangkok Lauren Frayer n.p.r. News Mumbai us stocks continue to trade lower the Nasdaq composite index is down one and a half percent at $7986.00 this is n.p.r. News. Support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society is committed to bringing hope to patients with acute myeloid leukemia through its persuasion medicine clinical trial learn more at l.l. Ass dot org. Support comes from a mono noodle unbowed serving Japanese and Hawaiian influenced food made in house from scratch their menu includes Japanese style Raman Hawaiian style poke a rice bowls sock a beer and more mon is located at 230 West search feet in downtown Chico menu and hours I am a Mona Chico dot com. This is Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow later in the hour do you know what's in your sunscreen in that it moves from your skin into your blood We'll talk about that but 1st the Amazon rain forest is often called the planet's lungs in the process of growing and breathing its trees suck bucks suck up a quarter of the Earth's carbon and produce a 5th of the world's oxygen so new data from the National Institute for Space Research in Brazil is of great concern researchers monitoring satellite images of Amazon tree cover found an alarming spike in the Amazon's the forestation in the 1st 7 months of 2019 the rain forest lost 50 percent more trees than during the same time last year that spike in tree loss coincides with Brazil's new president you have a airball in sorrow taking office and. Since January he's She slashed environmental productions and has reportedly called the new deforestation data a lie but climate scientists warn deforestation is pushing the Amazon rain forest to a tipping point that would disrupt both its ecosystem and the global climate Dr Carlos no Bray is a climate scientist at the University of South Paolo's Institute of Advanced Studies He joins us via Skype Welcome to Science Friday. Thank you very much so put this in perspective would you how alarming are these new numbers on the forestation . Numbers are very warring because Brazil was most of the other of us on a concert for 10 years from 2 poles and 4 of them 1213 they were declining over 70 percent deforestation rates they were really moving towards almost as 0 deforestation and still the production of agricultural products were increasing so deforestation has nothing to do we agree cultural production so everybody was happy but after composite 14 deforestation rates. Started to climb back again and the ear of the last 12 months have seen a spike up see a surge a very troublesome search very likely to last 12 months we will see an increase of 40 to 50 percent in depressed station rates in Brazil also for 6 or 8 in Kabul government crazy so this is. A sign that we might be closer to the tipping point toward the Amazon if we have forsworn and 25 percent of the forests in the Amazon Basin we might really ruling the Amazon forest with moved to a new system in which it becomes irreversible taunting a force over 56 percent of the basin and now there is a spike in the 1st patient has happened under Brazil's news new president gyre Bowl some Bowl so narrow Does he understand this that this is you know a danger. I'm not sure the current president and he's mostly. Ministers associate the particularly minister of the environment have a full understanding. The risks that are Brazil and the Amazon countries are under because you see the forest is. The Amazon forest provides a lot of ecosystem services for instance recycling water vapor and increasing rainfall keeping temperatures. To 3 degrees cooler dent with all the courts will dismiss all benefits even for agricultural production of salt of the Amazon and so if the force disappears the light the Agricultural the life of the people we'll be much worse without the courses so I don't think. The president and his Minister for Agriculture understand the full consequences of continually could you force them us all I think they're their policies are aimed at the very short term gains in. The agricultural year cattle farms and all sorts soit plantations into the Amazon so it isn't all about the money. It's about term gains it's about really seeing opportunities to increase production of those. Goods over a culture of goods but this is very short term because without the Amazon forest even the productivity of cattle farms or crops will be diminished up to the point that you might not have suitable agricultural crop lengths or grazing lands for cattle in the near future in less than 2030 years and what about be Indigenous communities and their land in the Amazon What are his policies on their rights. I think. Actually even when he was a hols member for 28 years the president was a House member for a long time he has defended the idea that the Indian nationals Lancer too little too large an extent they should not be demarcate that anymore and also knowledge the president he's trying to to convert indigenous culture into a different culture into let's say our culture our farmers. Cattle ranchers so but that's really goals very much I guess that cultural inheritance of these more than 200 different indigenous communities in the Brazilian Amazon date want to keep their cultural I said the force culture which is not only good for them for their culture but it's also very important for the maintenance of climate stability for the planet it's the Amazon forest disappears we are almost impossible to reach the. Targets of the Paris agreement to keep the temperature of the planet less than 2 degrees warmer Well when is there going to be a tipping point in the rain forest where that happens. A lot of scientific studies and I've been involved in those steps for. Almost 30 years they indicate that that if we exceed that 20 to 25 percent of deforestation in the whole Amazon or if we. Keep global warming unchecked and that temperature in the Amazon region. Increased 4 degrees Celsius we might really exceed the teeth this balance and to transform say $5060.00 up to 70 percent of the force into degraded stuff like that which much less carbon with much less biodiversity so we are now currently at the deforestation is about 1516 percent in the basin that Amazon is up all to $1.00 degrees warmer so if we continue that deforestation rates as they are the last few years that tipping point we'll be exceed that reached a little something like 20 years and do you find. You know anything besides president balls for an hour oh in your way or or in the way of making match making sure that doesn't happen well we hope that he will listen to the voices of the people of the Brazilian people the Amazonian people because all all. Polls conducted the last 20 years including polls conducted after he was elected. 90 percent of the Brazilians are against them us only forestation So we hope the moccasin We'll have the last word every Brazilian almost all Brazil has 9 out of 10 I guess the most on Forest is a soul I hope it's actually democracy we don't. And if you will listen to the voice of the people including including his electors. Now how so are against Amazon and forestation Well let's talk about the rain forest does become a savanna what does happen to the global climate. Well initially there will be over the course of these 2 and Zeeshan which might take between 30 and 50 years. A tremendous loss of carbon the force source a lot of carbon in underground in the trunks Brant use etc It's a lot of carbon it's about 12020 minute 50 columns of carbon. 13000 square metres a supplement at the cricket's of on it that by quick place the force is for something like 30 to 40 so we lose 70 to 80. Tons of cargo per hectare that we end up in the atmosphere s. Carbon dioxide again complicating. The global to global climate crisis So 'd if all these carbon ends up in the atmosphere the. Keeping meeting the targets of the Paris accord will become much much less difficult perhaps even impossible so this is a fact a very important fact that also something known as the greatest of oneness contain much less biodiversity so we are talking about extinction of tens of thousands of species that exist only the top of course and last but not mean less important is the fact that you know perhaps 1000000 people living in indigenous Lents with their culture or their forced culture might yet the risk of losing the force. Are you hopeful about this seems very scary. Well I hope that. Force of course with all Brazil and all of us want to call this there are. Some ocracy so people go out and fold so I hope you know this because this issue became so urgent so critical. In the last few weeks particularly in the last 12 months that you know. The force of people we'll be hurt by all this not only Brazil but all. And that they will actually start thinking. Hard There are 5 ways it's almost all we're called we thought all right we have to leave it there and we share your optimism Dr Carlos no break climate scientist at the University of South Policy Institute of Advanced Studies we're going to take a break and come back we're going to talk about sunscreen How much do you know about it how much do you know how it's regulated how much do you know how much of it gets into your bloodstream even though you put it on your skin all about that stuff after the break stay with us. I'm Ira Flatow this is Science Friday from the studios. In the midst of your daily hustle and bustle take a break with Beethoven and Brahms and the like. This is my Join me weekday afternoons for afternoon classics Monday through Friday starting at one right here on our. Laser Center a nor state skin renewal facility at 3305 placer street in ready offering cosmetic medical services laser treatments including. And Skin Care Solutions information out renew skin solutions. This is Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow it is summer time it is a time when doctors have been telling us to wear sunscreen they've been telling us to do this for decades now right and for good reason melanoma is one of the most dangerous forms of cancer and while some of us might slather spray it on before a day at the beach others are even more diligent and use a little bit of sunscreen every day we asked you to tell us on the Science Friday vox pop app what you've been told about sunscreen and how you use it I have been told by my dermatologist to use a you know use that I've tried it but I don't use it that often I try and just stay covered up as much as I can Recently I read an article suggesting that sunscreen doesn't actually block the cancer causing but it does. Cause you to get some good and my understanding is that you need both. Protection probably at least s.p.f. 30 or greater although I have been told that I think above that probably doesn't offer you that much more protection that's just hype Well we're going to talk about that and then those who are listening is Richard in Wisconsin Andrew in New Zealand bill in Oregon on the Science Friday vox pop app so I'm asking you now again what have you been told about sunscreen do you use it download the Science Friday vox pop app and leave us a little voice message there like they did to let us know and you also you can call us now at 844-724-8255 he 44724 sign talk or of course you can tweet us at. One thing that we're probably all been told is that sunscreen can prevent sunburn even skin cancer but listen to this a recent study conducted by the f.d.a. Put sunscreen safety in question my next guest was not part of the f.d.a. Study but is here to discuss what. We need to know in light of it. Is a professor of dermatology and the editor in chief of The Journal of the American Medical Association dermatology just to know we did reach out to the f.d.a. For this segment but they said no one was available to join us today welcome to Science Friday. Dr shrink you so much for having me on the show that's great we know that we should use sunscreen but exactly how does it protect our skin from the sun. Well sunscreen is used for 2 purposes The 1st is to prevent sunburn and the 2nd is to prevent skin cancer when you are exposed there's really 2 types of sunscreens and I think consumers have noticed this when they go shopping to look for purchasing a sunscreen the 1st type is mineral sunscreen These are literally minerals things like titanium dioxide and zinc oxide they coat the skin and that causes reflection or refraction of ultraviolet rays they literally bounce off the skin surface and are blocked from entering the scan The 2nd type are chemical sunscreens these are chemical filters that are used typically in combination with with each other to provide a broad spectrum ours or meaning coverage over the uva and u.v.b. Spectrum and these absorb ultraviolet light now the f.d.a. Tested for chemical sunscreens that are sold in stores today and what did they see . Well they used for commercially available formulations of sunscreen and apply them on a small number of human subjects were 4 groups of 6 in the study and these are paid these are subjects that were kept in climate controlled environment and were asked to apply the medication 4 times a day to $75.00 per share for Syria so akin to what you would do if you followed the sunscreen label and perhaps were at the beach so you're basically covering all the exposed areas of skin and then what they proceeded to do was to measure the blood levels of the specific sunscreen ingredients they looked at. 4 ingredients oxybenzone to cry Elaine Occam Saul and Eva bends on and looked at how the body absorbed these sunscreens over time and the medications were applied 4 times a day for 4 days and what was striking about the study was they saw systemic absorption as early as day one and they saw absorption that persisted in today's sevens of 3 days after the sunscreen application had stopped for all of the 4 sunscreens that were tested and those are the chemical substance sunscreens right not the mineral sunscreen that's correct these are all for chemical sunscreen to the mineral ones work differently I mean do they get absorbed into the bloodstream like the chemical ones that has been tested in the answer is clearly no so titanium dioxide and think oxide are not absorbed into the bloodstream Now did the f.d.a. Say there was any you know reason to give up some screens to these chemical ones after they were found in increasing levels in the bloodstream and above f.d.a. Limits correct. That's right so what's striking about the study is that there's the levels of sunscreen that were detected in the subjects bloodstreams exceeds a level that has been set by the Food and Drug Administration to be a threshold for testing and that testing is point 5 nanograms per milliliter of blood and what that threshold is is that any medication that's sold in the us and over the counter medication that's no matter how it's ingested or are taken if it exceeds that threshold it needs to go on undergo a safety testing specifically to look at cancer risk and whether that medication has any impact on reproduction and other biog biology functions well now that exceeded that threshold is the f.d.a. Going to test these substances. Well it's important to recognize the Food and Drug Administration is not a testing agency their regulatory agency So their role in in human medicine or in health is to really set the standard for how things should be examined it's really up to the the drug makers to provide the evidence that all of these tests have been done so the 1st test is whether or not is absorbed and whether it exceeds that threshold that we just talked about and then the 2nd if it is absorbed the drug manufacturers are obligated to provide standard testing results. Things like cancer risk and reproduction harm so they required now to go out and do these tests. That's correct and in fact there's a proposal that's been put forth by the Food and Drug Administration that we would like that they would like this to happen before November of 21000 so that soon and just a couple of months however this conversation has been going on for decades so this Food and Drug Administration has regulated sunscreens since the 1970 s. And in the late 1990 s. The Food and Drug Administration asked sunscreen manufacturers to provide the safety dating data about systemic absorption and for many years they've gone back and forth and for various reasons they have not seen the results yet so this has been a dance that's going on for decades. That's right it really has to do with really it gets at the heart of how over the counter medications are regulated in the u.s. I'm not an f.d.a. Member I'm not a drug regulatory expert but I my understanding is that all over the counter medications are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration So that's important to recognize sunscreen isn't just a cosmetic here in the u.s. It's a medication and that's different in other countries sunscreen is sold as a cosmetic agent so it does undergo different testing outside of the u.s. But in the u.s. It's considered a medication and therefore it does have to fall under all the same regulations that other medications that we take do here in the u.s. And but that that retesting has never happened and it has a lot to do with the fact that sunscreens were initially approved his medications many many decades ago before a lot of this modern era of drug regulation really took place it's really now in more recent years that we have clear standards for how all over the counter medications are tested so if I'm just going to assume that we we should assume that what is past is also going to be happening in the future that we're not going to get these tests why suddenly Should we be getting these tests and if we're not getting these tests what do you as a dermatologist recommended People him do about themselves and their kids. Well what we know right now is that. These 4 at least these 4 chemical sunscreens that were studied in this particular research article are absorbed into the bloodstream what we don't know and this is so important for listeners to understand is that we don't know if they have any human harm in terms of health impacts or health effects so the 1st really important issue is that we need to do these studies either the sunscreen industry needs to do them or medicine needs to do them and that's really the 1st and foremost point I wanted to make the 2nd is for listeners to recognize that there's many different forms of what we call sun protection are many different steps of how we protect ourselves from the sun and sunscreen is just one of them it's very important for people to wear protective clothing that includes had sunglasses you know long sleeve shirts long long pants when we're outdoors when possible and then to use sunscreen on the areas that are exposed people have a lot of control over when they do their exercise of for example of voiding sun direct sun during the peak hours of the sun which are defined as 10 am to 2 pm in the afternoon and seeking shade when possible so these are all parts of a sort of a sun protection regimen that people can participate in the other is that there still are sunscreens that we know are safe these are the medical mineral sunscreens that I mentioned earlier the titanium dioxide in the sink oxide those are are widely available in throughout the u.s. And make up a good portion of the sunscreens that are available here in the u.s. And are have been deemed have been tested and deemed safe so those are a great option for people who have any concerns about the chemical sunscreens Well what about bringing in some screens from other countries if you're and if you're in Great Britain or wherever you can you just go into boots or someplace and. Stock up on the. That's absolutely right for those who are lucky enough to travel outside the u.s. They've probably noticed that when they try to purchase sunscreen in a different country that the sunscreen agents that are available there are very different from those that are available here in the u.s. We've really had kind of a standstill in terms of new sunscreen filters being approved by the Food and Drug Administration in the u.s. And it wasn't until 2014 under President Obama that that there was a sunscreen Innovation Act which really put forth a road map for how the new sunscreen ingredients would be approved into the u.s. While being regulated there are many different agents out there in sunscreen ingredients that are available worldwide that is definitely want to option we also don't know a lot about the testing on those because as I mentioned before they are they are regulated as cosmetics elsewhere so I think it's really going to set forth a big self reflection of the sunscreen industry in terms of thinking about how we should be testing these things how we should be regulating them and these are all really important questions that have been raised by the current study so if we get a few phone calls in because of course everybody's concerned Michael in Fayetteville Arkansas. Oh go for. It yeah I thought that in years ago I got a sunspot on my neck thank you in fact by a doctor told me that they wear sunscreen I work outside I wear sunscreen I put it on at least 3 times a day you know I lather it on the very thing I'm concerned that that's not. The get there kind of a support folks can but it is just a clown thing and protect me from. Cancer should I be you know it's hot down here in Arkansas but I've considered wearing long sleeves and just completely covering my body and that's the best option if I do have concerns about Answer I do have a father and grandmother that effect if the father moves from good health care for Head and Neck Ok good question. Covering I don't. You know it's not I may be the better thing to do. Well covering up is definitely an option and we're lucky to have so many different. Different ways of doing that you know and I think of the fashion around it has also improved there's much more fashionable sun sun clothing available and it's widely available at you know really common stores not just the sports stores so I would definitely courage people to do that you mentioned the spot on your neck and there are things that they're called neck buff they're like scars but not made out of wool that we wear in the winter but they're made out of different types of lighter breathable materials that can cover the neck and will really allow you to be able to work outside in under hot conditions and I really liked what your caller said about reapplying what we don't know from the study as I mentioned the study showed people who are kept in more climate controlled. Environment but what we don't know is how much is sunscreen is absorbed in real world conditions for example when we are working outside when we're sweating when we're swimming doing exercise we don't know whether that systemic absorption would go up or down relative to those some research subjects that were studied in this article so definitely love the idea of covering up I love the idea of reapplying the sunscreen especially if you're working and sweating I'm Ira Flatow this is Science Friday from the n.y.c. Studios. Talking about sunscreens with Dr Kanade. Tell us about s.p.f. Factors they go from 15 to 100. When I remember growing up we had sunscreen s.p.f. 248 and maybe 15 was the highest it went and now I've seen sunscreens as high as 110 s.p.f. As b.f. Is really a factor that allows us to measure how much protection we have in terms of time outdoors if you're likely to burn within a certain amount of time s.p.f. 2 would allow you to be outdoors or under direct sun exposure for twice the length of your normal burn rate obviously that's going to be different for every individual who uses sunscreen but the recommendation is that s.p.f. 30 is a good thing to shoot for when you're out purchasing a sunscreen because that works for most people and essentially blocks almost 95 percent to 97 percent of all the u.v. That's that's you're being exposed to so you don't have to go for 50 or 70 you're saying or anything above 30 well that's the party line s.p.f. 30 is definitely the party line however we do know from from many scientific studies that in real world use many users don't apply the sunscreen thick enough and if you don't apply the sunscreen adequately you're actually getting less s.p.f. Protection right because you're just dosing yourself with less of the medication so one of the purposes of looking at an s.p.f. That's 50 or higher can be that if you use half the amount you're essentially getting the right amount right however Yeah and I think also too that it gives you a little bit more wiggle room in terms of some of the factors that we don't have a lot of control over for example how much of your sunscreen gets rubbed off for how much of it how much of it washes off when we're swimming or sweating but if you do it the right way and you put and that's an important thing that you brought up you have to put enough of it on your skin some so I think I don't want to waste and I want to I don't want to use the old tube up so I put it in layer on right. That's right well for the average sized adult The recommendation is to use one ounce or a shot glass if that helps your listeners kind of visualize how much of that sunscreen would be and most sunscreens that we purchase in a store at least a regular sized sunscreen would be about 4 ounces so if you can imagine an adult going out to the beach and they're going to apply the medication to their entire body and are going to put it on 4 times a day which is what it says on the sunscreen label that that bottles going to go pretty quickly it's going to be pretty much used up within a day or 2 and as we probably all would admit that that usually doesn't happen so it means to say that all of us are probably not using enough and of course you want to put it on again as it wears off so that bottles are can all laugh even all day you know this is a really interesting stuff Ana thank you for taking time to be with us today my pleasure after a. Professor of dermatology and editor in chief of The Journal of the American Medical Association dermatology section we're going to take a break and afterwards we're going to get slimed I love that movie didn't you we're going to talk about not that kind of slime algal slime algae you might not know it but algae is key for a healthy planet we'll talk more about it just about everywhere I mean or where there's water there's algae the green stuff even you know at this zoom in polar bears I'll tell you about my 1st experience with it after the break stay stay with us we'll be right back. I'm Ira Flatow this is Science Friday from w. N.y.c. Studios. Science Friday is supported by Progressive Insurance offering snapshot a device designed to reward safe drivers learn more at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive Now that's progressive support also comes from the high sing Simons foundation unlocking knowledge opportunity and possibilities more at h.s. Foundation dot org Science Friday is supported by Indeed with indeed employers can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then 0 in on a shortlist of screen candidates using an online dashboard more info at Indeed dot com slash higher Science Friday is produced by the Science Friday initiative dedicated to increasing the public's access to scientific information learn more about their work at Science Friday dot com. Hi This is Helen Forster after a lengthy absence our brilliant friend citizen returns to town exquisite singer songwriter and a tipple joins us to and we share a story about a dad and son who are doing major recycling helping those in need this week in town . Tomorrow night at 11. Support catering and carry out locally sourced foods made from scratch serving the community since 1984. For seasonal menus full service catering and patio seating at their 19th Street and Park Avenue location in Chico information including online ordering and lunch delivery. Dot com. Support comes from courtesy Subaru of the complete line there's a rule vehicles including the 7 or 8 passenger $2100.00 a sound equipped with symmetrical all wheel drive for safety and reliability available new woman Tory on site 2522 go House Road and. Chico Subaru car. This is Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow as a kid the 1st time I saw a polar bear at the zoo I was shocked to see that its fur was green where did that green come from I wonder years later I would learn that polar bear fur was actually hollow and in the hollows would grow algae finding its way in from the water polar bears like to swim in those Bears started me on a lifelong citizen science Quest about algae here think about algae if you have a fish tank you do seeing it growing on the glass and bright green fluffy mats boy I encountered that in my fish tank factors of the algae is all around us for good and bad algae provide 50 percent of the oxygen that we breathe but they can also bloom into poisonous and deadly pools these ancient organisms are a big part of all this since the photosynthesis on our planet but they usually go unnoticed until something bad happens my next guest says you won't find algae dressed in flowers wafting sense or sporting seeds and berries plants are the fancy pants photosynthesize of our world algae are the plain Janes in fact he says algae are not plants we'll talk about that in our new book she gives these plain Janes their time in the sun sharing with us her hunt to see how algae are used around the world for food alternative fuels and importantly for a healthy planet with Cason ger is a science writer based out of Bethesda and her new book is called slime how algae created us plague us and just might save us welcome to Science Friday thank you for inviting me and delighted to be here I love how that name rolls off your tongue when you took some while for you to do then. We have an excerpt of your book on our website at Science Friday dot com slash slime you might get this a lot but how did you get interested in l. I mean I got interested I told you at the zoo it became a lifelong passion for me added that happened for you well I was working on another book a book about the history of conservatories glass conservatories and looking for the most modern representation of one of those and that took me to El Paso Texas in about 2008 where an entrepreneur was growing our g. Underneath a. Glass conservatory and growing it in clear plastic panels were about 8 feet tall and 4 feet wide and a few inches thick and filled with water that had algae growing in it and he was determined to grow the algae spin the water out of the algae and then. Get the oil out of the algae and he was doing it and he his business didn't survive but I was so fascinated by this because wow here we are making oil instead of. Taking it out of the ground and we're doing it without using any arable land or any freshwater it just seemed great to me and the more I looked into algae the more I realized that even this wonderful application was just a small part of what algae is all about and let's talk about that how what algae actually is because I think people are are shocked to learn that algae is not a plant is it what exactly you will you know it's really hard to say exactly what algae is because it's not a taxonomic category like an a male or homo sapiens it's actually a catch all term that refers to 3 different kinds of organisms the smallest one is cyano bacteria and that is a very simple organism they had to bacteria only at Fota synthesizes then there are micro algae which are a little bit larger but still invisible and they're more complicated inside and can produce a lot more kinds of proteins and vitamins things that we really appreciate and then there are macro algae which are the sea weeds you know those are those are the conglomerations of algae that actually have parts like a plant but as you said in your opening algae are definitely not part of the plant community they don't have barked they don't have stems they don't have flowers. So they actually are more efficient at taking sunlight and turning it into things that we like rather than turning it into plant material and my quest to study algae over the years I've learned some interesting facts that I'd like to check with you for example I like 90 percent of all the green stuff growing in the ocean and not plants like it's algae is 90 percent including the giant kelp beds kelp around kelp or algae the up there 150 feet tall and there they are algae macro algae. And how do they reproduce that. Well this smallest ones the cyanobacteria simply divide micro algae most of them divide but some of them reproduce sexually. But don't get any x. Rated visions in your head because all they do is release fours that meet in the ocean and form new individuals and that's the same thing with seaweeds. Now we've heard we were in the summer we've heard about these deadly algae blooms What is that what's going on there will most of these blooms are really manmade it's because algae are very happy in warm water and they love nitrogen and phosphorus and that nitrogen and phosphorus gets to them in large amounts because we're putting too much fertilizer onto our farmland and so for example in the Midwest. Where there are lots of farms the fertilizer washes off in the spring. Finds its way into the Mississippi then finds its way into the Mississippi the mouth of the Mississippi and into the Gulf of Mexico and algae with all that food for them because that's what they eat nitrogen and phosphorus they just go crazy and divide and divide and divide can algae live without water at all for any period of time like bacteria might yes alkie you know are pretty remarkable in that they can survive in almost any environment there are algae that go dormant in the desert and might only reappear get green and reproduce in with spring rains there algae that live only in the Arctic and they're actually pretty important algae. Hikers often see those there are a kind of algae The variety is called the Valas and they have red pigments that they use to capture sunlight and they turn the snow red or pink when they bloom in in the spring when there's just a little bit of free water interesting Our number 844-724-8255 extension 844 side target if you'd like to join us you can also tweet us at Cy fry if algae are that hardy and can survive I remember seeing algae growing in lakes in Antarctica when I was there many years ago. Might me what might we when we send probes to other planets for the moons of other planets and their oceans there should we be looking possibly friends. I think it's you know it's it's a possibility why not the algae can survive in very salty waters and the scientists best guess are that the wall waters on Mars beneath the surface are extremely salty and that's what helps keep them liquid. So they could be there and certainly scientists who are interested in colonizing Mars do think about taking algae with them to one create oxygen and also there they can be full of protein and and other. Vitamins and other good things for human beings so you know we we might be wanting to take algae with us to Mars and that the title of your book garden with Ruth passengers slime how algae created us plague us and just might save us. Where does the term slime come from when you talk about algae Well the slime that we are not very appreciative of on seaweed for example is really a saving grace for for the organism when algae 1st evolved and that was about 3800000000 years ago there was no oxygen in the air and so there was no ozone layer and they were their d.n.a. Would have been fried if they hadn't developed a kind of sunscreen and that's exactly what they did it's have polysaccharide sunscreen that. Protected cyano bacteria and all other micro algae and sea weeds and I should add it is under investigation as a sunscreen for us. Very well and we thought of that earlier in the program so outlasted that fastenings the algae by creating a sun screen allowed life to develop on the planet Yes yes algae were absolutely critical to making our planet a livable place to be and of course they they produced oxygen and. We all we all obviously benefit from that an all oxygen breathing creatures but they also created all the iron oxide on the planet the the seas used to be filled with iron and it actually took more than a 1000000000 years for the oxygen escaping from algae to oxidize all the iron so a 3000000000 tons of iron oxide on the planet is all due to algae and they were also critical in capturing nitrogen if if algae weren't able to fix nitrogen then there would be no life on the planet that was more complicated than a single cell. For quite fascinating let's go to the phones let's go to Purcell in Baton Rouge Hi Purcell. How are you fine how are you. Get from ever occurring any kind of. I'd like you know a lot I appreciate all all that you do here is my question Ok. Like in that well the definition of a plant right don't we usually think of a plant as something that makes its own fit through the process of. Your guest was saying that like well they're not really high up so. I'd like an answer to why it's not a plant if in fact it does. Produce its own food Ok because without thought about that because you asked for it we're going to answer that right passenger Thanks thanks for calling Thanks for being a listener room well. Plants. Have roots and they have what are known as the ask you are systems which are tubes inside that carry water up and food down to the roots and to the leaves. Algae don't have those things algae because they float in the water although they do photosynthesize they don't need those kinds of systems because the nutrients that they are getting come not from the earth but they just pass right through the algae cells cell walls so that's the critical difference between algae and plants. We're talking about algae with Ruth passenger author of slime how algae created us plague us and just might save us on Science Friday from w. N.y.c. Studios. And you know like we talk about bacteria in the plural algae is also the plural term right it is is the singular Yeah I know confuse those is the change you're playing. Now the forms something called mucilage doesn't sound very appetizing you know that's that that's that stuff that is the slime that keeps them from getting their d.n.a. Fried and is not very pleasant to touch altho I have to say after years of touching seaweed actually it's perfectly fine I think now let's talk about how where algae it's all over the place for example the famous white cliffs of Dover are not made out of little court sand particles it's all that algae right that's right it's algae and some other. Microscopic creatures but yes you know algae after they photosynthesize and divide and eventually die they sink to the bottom of the ocean taking their carbon with them which is a very good thing for our atmosphere they constantly are cleaning the atmosphere of carbon dioxide but after millions in some cases billions of years with tectonic plate movements and volcanoes and other shifts in the ocean crust those layers become visible again and that's exactly what happened with the white cliffs of Dover. That's many many feet of. Of dead algae and other creatures Now I know used to have a coral reef a small coral reef and my fish tank in my in my house and I used to notice that the colors in there and I learned that algae are crucial for the the livelihood of coral correct and that if they lose their algae they they they die off yes you know it's it's it's impossible to imagine you cannot have a coral reef without algae corals are actually animals and what we see and think of the coral part is really the calcium carbonate shell that they build up over time but inside the calcium carbonate is a little animal looks a bit like and them in the end it's called a polyp and that polyp comes out of the coral at night chiefly and snags little microscopic creatures and so plankton but that's not enough to feed a pall that's only about 10 percent of the polyps diet the rest of the food that the polyp gets from the algae that are living inside it and those algae photosynthesize produce sugars and share them with you know what fascinating thank you fascinating I've been we've run out of time so much and Ruth Cass and yours book. There's a science writer based in Bethesda her new book is slime how algae created this plague us and just might save us a lot of great reading great great research on this Ruth thank you for doing this for money l.j. Lover to another thank you very much for having me you're welcome and you can read an excerpt up on our website at Science Friday dot com slash slime quick a program note a few weeks ago on our degrees of change segment we asked you to tell us on the side fry vox pop back up if you've changed what you eat in response to climate change and. What more really in Oregon had to say at our home we have made some changes to our diet we now try to find foods that are grown local and we also try to make dishes that include foods that are in season and not just the few that are provided year round and we want to continue gathering your opinions and ideas on all kinds of topics for upcoming shows So share with us your ideas just like she did all you have to do is download the Science Friday vox pop app or ever you get your apps and just leave us a little measure a little message on there like she did and you can join us each week have a great weekend we'll see you next week I'm Ira Flatow in New York in New York. Science Friday is supported by Progressive insurance providing tools designed to help customers consider options from multiple insurers comparisons available at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive Now that's progressive Science Friday's also supported by Indeed with indeed employers can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then 0 in on a shortlist of screen candidates using an online dashboard more info at Indeed dot com slash higher support for Science Friday comes from the Research Corporation for science advancement nurturing teachers scholars and innovative basic research in the physical sciences and American colleges and universities since 1912 more at rest corp dot org. Listener support in y.c. Studios some people in Paradise California are rebuilding after the deadly campfire but they're getting mixed messages from officials about whether the water is safe to drink the flip flopping is what causes me more stress knowing that one day it's fine couple weeks later groups it's not I'm Audie Cornish the water crisis in paradise this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News. All things considered later today at 4 o'clock. And you're tuned in or State Public Radio k f p are reading 88.9 f.m. And t c h o Chico at 91.7 f.m. With the following translators k 2598 up you hey forget 99.7 key 208 b.j. We've ability 9.5 key to t 2 p.r. Dunsmuir and Mt Shasta at night 2.3220 Bernie at 91.9 k 25 to 98.3 key 209 why Chester at a 9 point 765-8100 point 9 and k 2 t 2 a Q or fell at night 2.3 were on line and my n.s.p. Are dot org Twitter at s.p.r. News and Facebook thanks Sirin event of Brewing Company family own operated and argued over since 1980 reminding listers to think for themselves but drink with others Sierra Nevada dot com It's 1 o'clock at afternoon northern California this Friday August 2nd 2019 welcome to African classics this is your host Mike Fisher good speaking to you live from the s.p.r. Studios had beautiful downtown Chico on this 1st Friday of August we have for you listening pleasure baroque for the 1st hour with summer from of all these 4 seasons with violinists mostly McWhorter and the Moscow Chamber Orchestra box keyboard part here number 6 an emotion or played on piano by Richard good and 2 short overtures by Handel Al says tonight repeated back to back led by Trevor Penick then it's classical and romantic solo strings in the 2nd hour respectively with Beethoven's Cello Sonata in g. Minor in a recording with because be close plenty and I'm to shift and he and off skis Violin Concerto Number 2 with Itzhak Perlman joined by sages saw and the London Symphony and the London Philharmonic rather and in the last half hour or 2 from the 20th century Benjamin Britten simple symphony complected by the composer and Marina drove us Romanza to Los Pinos with guitar spectrum that's all coming up beginning with a faulty after the composer's date book and this news.