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To talk to George Norry called the wild card line at 818-501-4109 the 1st time caller line is 818-501-4721 extension 2 talk toll free from east of the Rockies call 808255033 from west of the Rockies toll free call 806-188-2552 reach George via Skype use Skype named George 97313 send George a text message any time at 818-298-6521 This is coast to coast am with George Noory and as we continue talking with the Matthews Swain about his work haunted rails will be taking your calls this hour as well and questions so jump on board with we'll be back with him in a moment on coast to coast am he wanted to give the holiday gift that families across America. 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Require an online petition consultation are only available at the position in terms of appropriate subscription records which like full details important information Hey guys good news the expensive little blue pill is now generic which means the prescription medication to treat is super affordable at 4 him dot com And now get your 1st online doctor's visit free at for him dot com That's right 0 co-pay no awkward face to face conversations to get your prescription that's really good news to start your free online visit go to this exclusive address for him dot com slash joy that's f o r h i m s dot com slash joy. And welcome back to coast to coast George Norry with you back with Mathew Swain we'll take your calls this hour Matthews we were talking about this engine ear whose train derailed and there's a bridge was falling apart and you said he went back to save passengers and what happened he did and he was scolded and then I think he later died in the hospital. After this incident and again this this was this came from the Kansas globe this the story that I found some of these engineers would claim to see not just. Engineer craft but also his train cruising through through Kansas and in one case an engineer said that right at the as his train neared the area where Britt crafts train crashed he saw a train coming towards him that was a kind of a red flag because it was a single track which meant he was going for a head on collision and then when he looked out to sea he saw that this was this train was piloted by his his friend Brit craft and the train was not on the line but this goes train came by sort of parallel to him so that that story made the rounds and there were other stories similar to that and then there are other stories that the train itself remember Brit crafts engine made it across the bridge it was repaired and then later it crashed and they said that this this engine was cursed when you hear the phrase haunted It sounds scary but it doesn't necessarily have to. Scary haunted doesn't mean always bad and evil right oh no no I mean some of the stories are you know even the Abraham Lincoln funeral train I would consider that more poignant There are stories that are somewhat You Maraniss but I think the key for me after doing so many of these books is that I think people are always there the argument that surrounds this area is they want proof people want proof people who want to believe want proof that it is that these ghosts exist and then there on the other hand there are people who wanted to bunk it they don't want to believe this but what I think is the important thing about these stories is not proof but meaning why do we tell these stories. I think there are a lot of reasons why we we talk about it and and that's why I always always talk about when I try to write the stories I try to get as many facets as I can because I want to kind of give a holistic approach that there are more to these stories than then just trying to scare the bejesus out of. Or or just to kind of laugh at people who have had real experiences with things that they they just don't know what is the stamp of spooky approval story for me the stamp of spooky approval story is you know when you have eyewitnesses. Or just an eyewitness a credible eyewitness who encounter something that they just can't explain and I think that really right raises the level from Ghost lore which I think has value but raises it to a level where you really have to start thinking about transcendence and about how people are experiencing these things and and what that means about our lives whether our lives go on and what this means about our reality what what are we surrounded by let's take some calls for you this hour let's go to Robert in Tucson Arizona on west of the Rockies Hey Robert go ahead sir I have a couple of the train stories the 1st dysfunction from Charles Dickens it's called Number one branch line signalman and it was made into a British t.v. Episode in 1976 from a supernatural series with the star Denholm Elliott of the episode it's about an hour long and the t.v. Episode itself was simply called the signalman the whole question of it is is the signalman insane or is the ghost real the 2nd point would be a whole real place on a railway tunnel in most western Massachusetts. I believe it's called the Who satanic but I could have that wrong it does have a Native American name however during the making of that funnel there were many deaths and this is why people say they hear noises in the tunnel and that sort of thing so that's all they wanted to bring out Ok thanks Had you heard about any of those Matthew. No I did not and you would think that with all the research that I did that I would come across that Charles Dickens story to write and I did not and I think he made that call or may have mentioned that in the Facebook post so that's that's really interesting to me and I think it also underscores the idea that this is a really a global a pretty global phenomenon and that the u.k. . Has their own kind of brand of of railroad ghost stories a lot of those stories in the u.k. Revolve around native spirits and natural spirits who are kind of offended that the trains are going through so there's there's that element to it but there's also a lot of haunted subways in the u.k. I found some of them are based on this idea had said they've disturbed sacred ground and there's other stories about and one I think was best in all green where there was a tragic world war accident during World War 2 remember the subways were also used as as bunkers during during the blitz right so. You know that that's I think your caller it's very interesting that that Charles Dickens would have been aware of that so I definitely will be reading some of that in addition to my traditional reading of a Christmas carol every year what does this tell you about the attachment of spirits and ghosts Matthew that they still seem to hang around you know human years way way after they've died yeah that's that's you know a lot of theorists say that the emotion of of the situation that they were in whether they died on a railroad whether they were so attached the railroad that they can't leave makes that makes them appear there so so that can be a reason behind that there's in this book what I found is that the railroad has really run the gamut there are residual goes there are ghosts that Sirius would probably say are active there are even some porter guys phenomenon so so yeah that that this bond between this life and the other life seems to be so dramatic that it keeps them. Here and then I say I'm also interested in why we're still telling stories about hundreds of years you know I think that's fascinating the the there are hundreds of these railroad stories that spanned centuries almost all they don't go away and then they live forever right Dan truck driving in Missouri welcome to the show Danielle go ahead I. Didn't do anything on the old Casey Jones like. I heard him step out of Dan Don't bridge in you're the correct crash was I you know if there's anything to that or not. You know I didn't find anything about that but that sounds like it would be an ideal place for some of this ghost lore and some of these ghostly legends to occur again some of the stories are pretty much within the community within in the oral tradition so I wouldn't be surprised if somebody wouldn't have a. Ghost story there and that's really a great insight a great question there's all kinds of stories so I mean the materials endless isn't Yeah it really you know one of the things that I had to do was that there seems to be with with railroad goes there seems to be seems there motifs that are repeated. In different regions so that there may be a community let's say my own community that had this. Story about the decapitated conductor or engineer. 40 miles away you might find almost an identical story which which intrigues me on a lot of different levels. I think in in some of these cases these ghost story stand as cautionary tales rather than writing a chapter in a book saying Be ware of you know investigating ghosts on these these lines these ghost stories seem to try to scare off people from being on these lines so you know I I think that there are these stories kind of repeat themselves and they're so long lasting because of that value and Dan The truck driver of course was making reference to Katie Jones was real name was Jonathan Jonathan Casey Jones who died in 1900 he was working for the Illinois Central Railroad he was killed in April of 1900 when his train collided with the caboose of a stalled freight train near Vaughan Mississippi What a way to go Yeah and that. There were several incidences that that sparked quite a few of these ghost stories songs so Wasn't there a song about him yeah yeah and there were legends about him in and you know early in the show we talked a little bit about this heroic aspect will there is a perfect example of you know a railroad hero that he's larger than life figures and very well could be some ghost stories about that 1st time caller Alan upstate New York welcome to the program Alan. Oh George my dear. 29 years driving trucks and listen a long time thank you thanks for what you do. My question is is the Lehigh Valley down in Pennsylvania I know that they had a bad ass and around 1980 even 18 owners but the whole town was going on a picnic to Jim Thorpe and I think they had a head on in the passenger cars kaleidoscope killed most of the town oh my gosh and that they changed the name of the town to evoke a meaning a town or city appears now I dunno ever in across that I know that's that's just so powerful or of a story yeah if you could write another book from this Matthew just from the show I could probably just go through the Facebook posts alone and come up with volume 2 gosh how did you know of the story Ellen. Though you have a really came through my backyard I used to write on the caboose and in the engine was horrible my God I was actually being trained you know what a young it by 8 years old writing and then when 7176 when Conrail took over they tore out the tracks and most of the crews got laid off and by the time I got up there to where I want to join the are so many people furloughed that you just couldn't get a job in the railroad so I became a truck driver Good for you thanks Allan appreciate it you know the history of railroading is truly remarkable too especially when they finally put the tracks from East Coast to West Coast pretty dramatic album all by you numbers to taken years to make Yeah I mean it it it probably took years and years and the significance I think is that. And the way that that the railroad stitched together the culture of the country and you know I think some of the stories testified to that next stop let's go to Steve truck driving in Ohio not these not ready yet let's go to Jesse in central Pennsylvania hey just go ahead well I was bored I ever met them guys paired down if you have any interesting stories about the Middletown almost Council route Oh I live right near that train track and if you are having interesting stories from there that are on it. No I don't think I came across any I know that I was looking into her spur Kariya quite a bit because you know arguably her spirit was right up there without Tunis being at the Center for for rail travel but I don't think I. Came across anything like that. Do you do you get the sense that there are there would be ghost stories there . I'd not you know it's hard to say but like I can hear that I can hear the train in the middle of the night like right not to hear them right now and really that haunting the sound of the war has worn off you know yeah that's that's another thing that I think comes up a lot when. When you listen to those those trains it sounds so mournful it sounds for me it kind of sounds hopeful It means people were bringing goods and passengers and you know for living and so close to that railroad and having the industry so close to my community that was a good thing but to me it's just you know you have this feeling in it about the railroad that there's there's something mysterious that that's going to happen I think is so anytime that you say you're in those areas I think it crops up and I'm wondering whether that doesn't influence some of the stories but you know to your point to your question I don't I don't have any offhand and I I would have to check my notes now let's go to Steve truck driving in Ohio hi Stephen go ahead Hey George I saw you all and her. Little Dog very All right when you got to talking about Abraham like in the. Funeral Train it got me to thinkin about a whole giant radio show the man who went back to try to save Lincoln. Where they were able to travel back in time yeah and. They were supposed to try to the body of their church bus to try to get the body of the day. Police but it was there but actually he ended up becoming you know there. I think we've lost him yeah it's to to the to the caller's point that there is this element of that story about how important history is and how how important time time is and then you know when you think about the coincidences of of Lincoln's own life and even the assassination how he was supposed to be visiting this train on the on the day he dies I think you know it's it's one of the one of the things that comes up when you're writing these books is just the importance of of history and I think these ghost stories or are designed to to encapsulate that Lincoln had a dream of his own death basically he he dreamed he dreamt that he was in the White House and he saw all these military people in a room looking into a casket and as he walked up to the casket because he was curious it was him. Yeah and you know I would consider. Lincoln probably the probably a mystic almost any and you know there are stories about Seances at the White House that Mary Todd was involved in and that he would be part of these railroad ghost stories I think is a little bit apropos I think he would enjoy it she was into that the let's go to Stockton California Shawn Stern John go ahead sir Yes Good evening gentleman I had an elderly friend and one night we were talking and he says Do you notice I walk with a limp and he went on to tell me that he had been a train engineer and he said they were traveling down the tracks like normal one night and they came up and they realized that the train bridge had been washed away and he said they had just seconds just blindly jump off this train before it went into the river and it was just really interesting that he had had something like that happen while and yeah yeah and not uncommon I know that there is at least one ghost story about a line in New York where the bridge was washed away and then also there was this problem especially in the prairie of prairie fires burning the bridges and by the time the engineers would get up to that would be too late with the trains alluded at all by by robbers and then the people aboard killed there is there's at least one story that came out of West Virginia which was civil war train. And you know historically it's a little iffy but essential the one that there was this supposed to be this train with Confederate wounded on and that simply disappeared and a lot of people said that it was robbed by or it was stormed by Union soldiers and burned and a lot of people there was another story that said that they say they stole the train. And yet there are some other ones too in Canada that there was a group of robbers who tried to rob a train it was snowed in and that it no there is a ghost train and that area people claim to see these this red and white light of this train I think it was even a stamp in Canada All right we're going to come back and take final calls in a moment with Matthew Swain His book is called Haunted rails and I will have them give his website again but it's linked up at coast to coast am dot com Daily Show Updates right to your inbox for free with the coast zone newsletter sign up today at coast to coast am dot com. 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And welcome back our final segment with Matthew Swain as we talk about his work on trains it's called Haunted rails tales of ghost trains phantom conductors and other real road spirits tell me about these phantom conductors Matthew several conductors you know one of the things that conductors did were they were sometimes trained as like the emergency people that if there was a threat or crash or something they were the ones who were going to have to take care of it they were the ones who were telling the brakeman what to do so they were key had key roles and a lot of times those key roles were in dangerous situations it was mentioned earlier but in one case a the train decoupled and there was what would they would call an orphan car that that the other part of the train had gone on and this remained there so the conductor in this case his job was to stop any approaching trains and in one case and I'm blanking on exactly where this occurred but the conductor literally after seeing. The conductor had a lantern it was signaling violently to the approaching train to stop couldn't get the engineers attention actually jumped out in front of the train to get the attention and it was too late the conductor died and then his ghost haunted that train for years after that what a story let's go do tomorrow in August Utah welcome to the program hi to America Hi How are you tonight wonderful hope you are too I am and I. Mentioned earlier that you know a lot of stories from Aga Nipah and my grandpa there. My mom and her sister the whole block of buildings 2 blocks from the Union Station and then my great grandpa was the mayor when the Golden Spike was delayed and we'll have a little diner right there where that happened and of course that wasn't a knock down but I was wondering if you have any cool story them out there that Union Station and I'm damned because I've been in the catacombs underneath Oh wow yeah I do. I worked with a blogger named Jennifer Jones and I think the name of her blog is dead history and she had several stories about been Union Station I know that there was a ghost of Frank who was injured and died in an accident at the building. But then there also have been Evy p.s. Of women and children who were crying there. Apparently so sometimes at least one part of the history I think was correct that that some of the those sections of that building were used to some makeshift morgue there was an accident and they they brought the victims and the people who died back into often Union Station according to Jennifer I hope I'm not misquoting her but I think she found that that pretty active at times I would guess that would be what it yeah my gosh it's almost like being out of Gettysburg isn't it. It is really similar some of these some of these areas are that active it's not just that there's one ghost but there seems to be just a chorus of them according to a lot of these people who investigated and who've experienced it next stop let's go to Joe Long Island New York a Joseph go ahead yeah hi Matthew 2 quick questions. You know that will be fried green tomatoes as they fast forward at the end like years decades. Later to the to the town and they show the train station with like a huge of a growth of fines so I'd ask you about train stations are there any stations was someone still selling tickets long after the stations have been abandoned and the 2nd thing theme I want to ask you about was when you said see. The Engine trains were possessed I mean those a very complicated. Piece of machinery millions of dollars and today's terms and what not being more so either Angeles or demons involved with that rather than go. Well I'll take your your 1st question 1st or your last question 1st. It's probably a good theory what what you have I didn't come across those theories and again what I try to do you serve as an intermediary between people who are speculating on what's causing it and and you know try to get it out as part of the story so it very well could be that there are people who believe that those are angels or or demon possessed him and not a ghost so that's that's that's a pretty good theory. You know you mentioned about this to stations too and I think that brings up a good point because the unsung heroes of of this book as far as I'm concerned are the preservationists the railroad preservationists and they've done tremendous work in preserving some of these stations I just don't know whether they know that they're also preserving some of the the supernatural history involved with these places but you know there are a lot of stations that they've converted into railroad museums that are now are according to a lot of people pretty active. You know Matthew sometimes when you see a train go by at night when you're when you're there in the Crossroads are down and it's kind of weird seeing a train at night. They always make noise like they're calling you ever hear that yeah yeah I know exactly what you're talking about as you know as a kid I used to the mainline for Conrail was just a river away it was over a stream for me and you know you could see that light you could hear that noise and they does seem to call out to you for sure next stop let's go to Matthew truck driving in Ohio Hey Matt you're on with Matt I just I just had a real quick one for you sure there's something that might just tell us our time to this is the blinders again and there was a farmer that had a great big farm across 3 from our house well he had a real line that ran through the center of this field then it was shut down for many years and he finally got the city in the township to run and get some guys in there is pull the tracks out but. After they did that he just says firms it is nice except you're in your trade going through like it was a train office wreck wow wow yeah what causes things like that to happen Matthew. Well there are so many so many reasons that and that people have suggested. You know is that the wind in their imagining it or what you know that this story reminds me of the story about Philip k. Dick that's in the book the late Philip k. Dick now living Philip k. Dick the science fiction writer who claim to hear. The ghost train in Ray as and there's a whole bit of folklore about this ghost train that of that haunts that area but anyways he said and he was kind of a noted insomniac said that he couldn't sleep because he kept hearing the whistle blow and kept hearing that this train and of course there is the wife has his wife at the time wrote this in her autobiography and and she said that you know there were no trains in the area he claimed it was a ghost train she thinks it was the wind so again we get to the point of what's what's the meaning let's not go after proof what what does it mean you got a 1st time caller Nathan in Leroy Illinois Welcome to the program Good Morning Nate Good morning how are you guys good good to have you with us great Actually I was just wondering how many guys were talking about the London 2 earlier. The way that it runs and runs under water. No I know cause I know water is like a conduit for Purnell wife with the surest market direct effect on the London tube itself because of the water that's an interesting possibility Matthew Yeah it sure is I did not mention that in the book but it it certainly. Belongs to air because that's that's you know I've talked to a bunch of investigators when I rate these things and they talk about the location of water and let's go a little farther and suggest that a lot of times these rail lines were built right alongside rivers because you know steam locomotives they needed that so they need to access to water so it could be that plays a role into it too so again Coast to Coast listeners are blowing my mind they are the best my friends they are the what's your next work what are you working on now you know I am at a point where I'm not really sure I got a couple ideas I just haven't. Had it nailed down yet I would like to get back into my music and supernatural books but I just gotta find the right angle in the right stories Stu in Phoenix Arizona welcome to the show Stu e.-s. I grew up in called up all the high Oh dear Akron. Go I 331940 there was a deadly collated and involving a child to go above and a North steam powered freight train. 43 people died in that wreck it had been right across the street from my grandparents. And my aunt witnessed the collision. I want that checked in the tracks hundreds of times. Had never experienced anything paranormal and I've never been the stories just wondered you had and it's saying you're proud about that tragic episode there Matthew Amada Yeah I haven't come across anything about that. You know Ohio does is pretty active with some of these railroad goes for sure so again it might be one of those things where it's still oral but if you're in that area and you know that area pretty well and nothing's come across it then that maybe there isn't much going on there I was going to say not every crash or tragedy is a haunting as it which is very interesting on its own what what makes one you know and I've come across this you know throughout these Yeah why one and not the other exactly I wonder why such maybe isn't the tragedy of now I guess and 43 people dying in the train crash is darn tragic yeah it and shocking and fascinating and expect that yeah yeah exactly I mean in similar to some of these stories where one person is murdered and there goes taunts a building where is there could be murders in that area isn't that just a take on that type of life of the time off to Hollywood Marilyn Frank's with us Hey Frank go ahead yes Mr Blaine ate any. Ghost stories about hobos jumping trains and then fighting each other and telling each other and the ghost on. The other one and then the Nazi death camps the trains taking Jews to the Nazi death camps I want to read a short story about this in then I think Rod Serling did one on the fly like he did sure did you comment on that. Well I'll take that one 1st yeah I I did not come across any of those holocaust oriented go stories but for sure that should be an area where you would expect this combination of just horrific tragedy horrible deep emotions to come to promote something like that it's more the hoboes stories there are a few stories about ghosts of hobos but a lot of them not of involving murders or mayhem or anything like that in Bellevue Ohio there's the Mad River Museum and that is allegedly haunted by Morrie Graham who was. Like a 4 time 5 time king of the hobo they actually have a competition for that and they say that his ghost has been seen in that museum and people hear some strange noises and voices so I think there's there's a lot to be said about this these home hobo themes in and Rocha's lore east of the Rockies Peter's with us on Palisades Minnesota Welcome Peter. How you doing to the great great I was is wondering if your guest had any stories about the Great Northern Railroad. It was created by promoted by James j. Hill and he was from Minnesota. And he has a his home is a museum here it's built that a large granite blocks and stone and it's in St Paul and there's a lot of original furnishings in his house I toured it once and there's a large sheet ironing machine in the basement with rollers Oh geez and and he had a intercom system in his house and under his desk he had these buttons he'd pull and they had cables to ring bells for like service and this and that and he was called the Empire Builder anything up that way in the northern part of the country I'm just I'm blanking on that it sounds for Mill year now if this doesn't have anything to do with the Canadian Railroad System correct the Canadian Pacific Yeah I don't know whether they I think a lot of railroads you know under great northern went lot in to gather piled on a merged together he yeah Ok I mean there are lot of stories in Minnesota and in through Canada but I don't know any specifically about about that case interesting now my gosh you know if those realigns were how many big ones were there in this country back in the hundreds Oh they were just there were maybe hundreds I mean you know and then they start consolidating Yeah yeah over time they consolidated I think as it seemed to go along with the increase of. Cars and trucks there were there was a lot more consolidation as the business focused on more long haul and interesting take while k. My friend Matthew thank you for being on the program and again tell us where we can get your book I have a website Matt swing dot com s w a y n e I'm also on Twitter you can hit me up on Facebook as well. The books are available Barnes and Noble's b.n. Dot com and also Amazon dot com And if you go to one of those stores and they don't have it just ask them to order it for you that once again thanks for being on the program have a great Christmas you and your family up next stopping lines plus we're offering up a general hotline for you I want you to think about this what was your most fortunate moment in your life share that story with us your most fortunate moment in your life plus open lines next on coast to coast am never miss a detail on a show or a guest sign up for the coast e-mail newsletter available for free at coast to coast am dot com. Today. 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